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Mel vs. Oksana; Cho Time
Aired September 22, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: There are rumors circulating that 32-year-old Ashton Kutcher is cheating on his 47-year-old wife Demi Moore. Are they true? Who knows? Has Ashton been flirting with Betty White, sexting Cloris Leachman, canoodling with Angela Lansbury? We`ll find out.
Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Mel Gibson`s ex unveils an undated handwritten letter she says is from the star. Its shocking content begs the question is Gibson a broken man with a broken mind?
And as Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore get ready for their fifth wedding anniversary, rumors abound that Kutcher is stepping out on his Cougar for a kitten.
Plus, the multi-talented Margaret Cho talks about surviving week 1 of "Dancing with the Stars".
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: The Mel Gibson and Oksana Grigorieva breakup has been messy to say the least. It all started with audio tapes then text messages, now a handwritten letter. What`s next, Morse code or smoke signals?
Here now to discuss the latest are Oksana Grigorieva`s attorney, Daniel Horowitz; professor of psychiatry at New York Presbyterian Hospital Dr. Gail Saltz; and deputy editor of "Us Weekly" Natalie Thomas.
Natalie, TMZ has acquired this letter. It`s allegedly written by Mel to Oksana, which is very revealing. Tell us about it.
NATALIE THOMAS, DEPUTY EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": The letter is about four pages in length. If it is in fact Mel, he is addressing how anger is making him seem out of control. How he refers to himself as wacky, depressed, sad, scared. It`s very telling.
He also says that he is sorry that he`s, you know, he`s this way. He wants to go get help. He wants to go back into AA meetings and that he`s really going to try to be helpful to more people.
BEHAR: When did he write it, allegedly?
THOMAS: He supposedly -- allegedly he wrote it December 2008, which is interesting because that`s a full year before the January blow-up of all the tapes -- the audio tapes that were released.
BEHAR: Right. Right. Well, we don`t know when those tapes were made.
THOMAS: No. It`s guesstimated because the child was a baby. People speculated that it was kind of around January 2009 time period but we don`t know for sure.
BEHAR: And the handwriting is not verified or it is?
THOMAS: As of now, the handwriting has not been verified.
BEHAR: Ok. Daniel, I`m a little confused by some of these things. I mean the letter is from, as you say, December `08 probably. The audio tapes were when, again Natalie?
THOMAS: January 2009 was is --
BEHAR: 2009. And then -- and they were horrible. You know, what kind of man hits a woman while she`s holding a baby -- blah, blah, blah.
Then there`s an e-mail that TMZ got that was supposedly -- written in 2010. She says, quote, "Please don`t torture yourself like that. Please. You didn`t do anything to be so hard on yourself."
Now, I had the impression that she was furious with him and didn`t want to have anything to do and that he was a bad boy. Now, she says you didn`t do anything. She already said he hit her while she`s holding a baby. Daniel, explain.
DANIEL HOROWITZ, ATTORNEY FOR OKSANA GRIGORIEVA: I know. You know, when you`re a domestic violence victim, you are a certain personality type. You have certain ways of dealing with the world that are self-destructive. Also, understand that Mel Gibson, to my client and from everything I`ve seen has wonderful parts about him. He`s not a devil. He`s a man who`s tortured. He`s got good and bad. So she sees the good after the bad is inflicted.
And police officers will tell you that domestic violence victims are often like that. They`ll get beaten. They`ll call the police. When the police arrive, they say, "I love him. He didn`t mean it. He apologizes. Please go away."
So we pass laws in California now saying that even if people recant or they arrest an abuser, the police still have to make an arrest. It`s apparently a psychological thing.
BEHAR: So Gail it`s -- do you agree with this? You`re a psychologist.
DR. GAIL SALTZ, PROFESSOR OF PSYCHIATRY: Well -- psychiatrist. And it is certainly true that in cases of domestic violence, you often see the person retreat or just try to hold on to the good because after all this is a person that they love. And they don`t really want to break up or they don`t want to lose the father of their child. That can happen.
The thing about the letter is, I don`t think the letter says one way or the other, you know, anything about domestic violence. This really is a letter from a person who actually seems rather self-reflective, who has some insight into their own suffering.
BEHAR: Yes, it does.
SALTZ: And the suffering that he`s talking about is not really crazy stuff. It`s people that -- a lot of people feel angry, sometimes overwhelmed with their anger, sometimes depressed. They`re abusing substances and they recognize they need help. It doesn`t seem like a crazy letter.
BEHAR: So it makes him seem more sympathetic.
SALTZ: It sure does.
BEHAR: So Daniel, does this letter help or hurt your client legally?
HOROWITZ: Well, I think it helps because she will never demonize Mel Gibson when I talked to her. She just says that`s the kind side to him. That`s the man I loved deeply. But then he got abusive and he couldn`t control it and I had to leave.
BEHAR: Yes.
HOROWITZ: So she just -- she wants to be real and honest. And you know this whole battle in the media occurs -- there could be an evil person leaking one side, then the other to create a battle. And maybe his people are doing it. I have no clue. I can`t accuse them of it.
But I do see that this is out of control. And while we`re going to respond to accusations against Oksana, we don`t want to vilify Mel Gibson. He`s a human being and she cares about his feelings.
BEHAR: Well, you know, in one part of the letter he writes, "I`m so ragged," -- we`re going to see it up there -- "I could drink or commit a crime. The anger seems to be out of my control. I need to do something about it, something lasting, not just a Band-Aid."
When she read that, why didn`t she call the police or something? I mean the guy is a menace when he says "I`m so out of control I could commit a crime."
HOROWITZ: Because she`s bonded to him emotionally. He`s somebody she loves and she also knows that he want to get better. That he doesn`t want to be like that and --
BEHAR: What do you think of that? I`m talking to Gail.
SALTZ: I don`t necessarily agree. I think when people say things like -- which they do when they`re in a state of great upset. I could commit a crime. I could end my life. I could -- you know it`s a statement of feeling so overwhelmed by the emotion that you have a thought or fantasy.
But many people have thoughts or fantasies they never act on. Someone could say I feel like jumping out a window. You`re not really concerned they`re going to jump out a window. I think that just to have this in the letter and the context and everything else was simply a statement on his part that he feels very overwhelmed, too many angry feelings and he knows he needs some help.
BEHAR: Ok. Here`s another part of the letter.
"I don`t know why I`m so wacky and depressed but I need to get well and re-enter life. Please don`t be upset I`ve gone. I`m just not myself and feel bad when I`m so f`d up and sick around you."
Why doesn`t he take medication is what I want to know? He eschews medication in one part of his rantings. He needs a lot of help, this guy.
SALTZ: That`s true. And true and it`s unclear from this. There`s no diagnosis in this. So it`s unclear. Is this something that could benefit from medication or not?
And we also say that unfortunately in this country today, many people are very uncomfortable about getting psychiatric help, unfortunately. Because sometimes they need it and that may mean they don`t want to see a therapist and reveal themselves or it may mean that they don`t want to take medication because they`re scared of how that might change them sometimes even when they really do need it.
Not that I want to be willy-nilly about medication, because sometimes therapy will suffice.
BEHAR: A lot of times alcoholics are trying to medicate themselves.
SALTZ: Correct.
BEHAR: Instead of taking, you know, Zoloft, which they need, they drink a bottle of Scotch.
Go ahead, Daniel.
HOROWITZ: I was going to say, what I see in Hollywood, too is that there are a lot of charlatans who have all these wacky cures that a lot of the stars buy into so real psychiatrists and real treatment doesn`t occur. They look for help but look in the wrong places.
BEHAR: Yes. I understand that you, Daniel, have a letter from Oksana to Mel. What is that?
HOROWITZ: Well, you know, somebody leaked to one of these tabloids online a letter that seems to imply that Oksana is going to play tapes and embarrass him if he doesn`t come up with money. I made a decision to release a very personal letter that she wrote to him, an e-mail that she sent him where it`s a love letter. What she says is not that I`m going to release the tapes to the public, but let`s please work this out. I don`t want to hurt you. Instead, because you`re making a fight out of this and people around you are goading you, I had to tell my lawyers. I had to play my lawyers one tape.
My clients play everything for me and I don`t tell. But she`s afraid that Hollywood lawyers will leak. She`s so concerned for Mel`s that she doesn`t even tell her own lawyers and she apologizes for having to play one. And in fact, the whole letter is going to be on TMZ pretty soon.
BEHAR: Everything is public.
SALTZ: It`s just so sad. It`s sad because you want people to be able to share their intimate feelings with their spouse, with a therapist. These things should be confidential so that people can know it`s safe. This is really sad. It`s sad for the child too who one day will know this.
BEHAR: There`s another point for Natalie. People are starting to feel bad for him. You can hear that. I mean, I was merciless towards him. You read this stuff and you say, "This guy is sick."
But are people going to forgive the anti-Semitic and the racist remarks? Maybe they can say he`s crazy in a relationship, which is no excuse for obviously the domestic abuse. But are they going to forgive the rest of it?
THOMAS: I don`t know if they`re going to forgive. And there`s certainly no condoning what he`s done or said. However, this letter -- he was going out in disguise, he was following the paparazzi. That was a whole another angry, darker side to him that fits with that.
Now we`re seeing a much more human, personal sad side. And I think this letter speaks to that. It speaks to a man who clearly realizes he has a problem, wants to get help, is trying to get help and is just lost and stumbling. So I think --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Go ahead Daniel.
HOROWITZ: Except he needs to put a stop to the attacks on Oksana. He needs to go public and say, she never demanded money. She did not try to get money from me or extort me. I`m sorry for what I did. I`ll take responsibility. I`ll release her recording so that she can release her album that she worked a year on and we will go our separate ways as rational, decent human beings.
He has to step up to the plate. And then we can feel sorry for him and begin to forgive him.
BEHAR: Right now I don`t feel sorry for him yet.
THOMAS: No.
BEHAR: I don`t.
THOMAS: And you have to remember there`s a child involved in this. It`s the most important thing.
BEHAR: There`s a child involved. I heard those tapes. They were horrendous.
Ok, thank you everybody, good luck.
She survived the first week of "Dancing with the Stars". Margaret Cho will tell me about it next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. "American Idol" announces its new line-up of judges. We`ll have all the latest.
And as Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore prepare to celebrate their five- year wedding anniversary, can their marriage handle the strain of infidelity rumors?
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Margaret Cho is best known for her stand-up comedy and her role in Lifetime`s "Drop Dead Diva". But right now she`s hoping to two- step her way to the top on "Dancing with the Stars". And she`s here with all the juicy backstage dished.
I`m happy to welcome back to my show the very funny Margaret Cho. Hey Margaret, how are you, Hon?
MARGARET CHO, COMEDIAN: Hi. I`m doing great, thank you.
BEHAR: Now, last night was the season`s first elimination. Let`s look at what happened before we talk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The couple with the lowest overall combined total and therefore leaving right now is -- David and Kym.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Now, a lot of people were shocked that Hasselhoff was voted -- that he was the one voted off. But I heard you were weeping. Are those tears of joy or are you bipolar?
CHO: I was weeping because I thought we were going home. It was -- it was this feeling that I didn`t want to think about, but I knew that we had the lowest score also.
And so it was so possible that we could have gone home. And it was so scary. And I just really wanted to stay. And I -- I mean, I just -- I couldn`t imagine the Hoff getting voted off because he`s so -- so famous, he`s just an icon. And I thought he did really great.
So it was a big surprise.
BEHAR: That`s nice of you to say that Margaret but he really had two left feet. He was worse than -- than Gosselin almost. He was not good.
CHO: I thought he was adorable. I mean, I think he`s got such an elegant, lean body. And he`s such a good-looking man. Like I -- I just thought he look like -- as sort of -- a movie star from the golden age of Hollywood. He seemed really, really elegant to me.
BEHAR: You have really gone over to the other side. He is so not my type. All right, never mind.
CHO: No.
BEHAR: I think you like him because you`re working with him now. So you like him now.
But now, now you tied with Hoff with the -- with "The Situation" for the worst score. Let`s take a look at your performance.
CHO: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Which I didn`t agree with you being the worst.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CLIP FROM "DANCING WITH THE STARS")
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I thought you were hilarious, Margaret. Absolutely hilarious.
CHO: Thank you.
BEHAR: I mean the judges took you to task for that comedy bit. All right, don`t these people have a sense of humor?
CHO: Well, yes -- I think -- no. They also -- I think what they thought was that I was a good dancer. And then they -- they thought that they -- they wanted to see more of that.
I think because I was a good dancer that they thought I didn`t have to resort to being a comedienne. But then to me, I mean, you know how it is. It`s like we`re comics. That`s what we do.
BEHAR: Right.
CHO: It would be weird not to put a joke in there.
BEHAR: Exactly and when you wrapped that thing around your face, didn`t they get it then that it was comedy?
CHO: It seems like they should have. But then at the same time, I think it`s because I was such a good dancer that they thought I didn`t need it.
BEHAR: Yes.
But it`s -- it`s a weird -- it`s a weird thing. It`s kind of like a back-handed compliment. Like it sounded like -- oh, well, you didn`t need it because you were so good.
BEHAR: Yes I see and they also said you had potential. That`s a little condescending.
CHO: Potential.
BEHAR: Do you care what think?
CHO: Well, yes, because I want to do well. I mean, to me, I never danced or I never did anything like this before. You know and it`s so hard for me to just be in my body as a person. Like I`ve just not ever done that, like I don`t work out. I don`t have any kind of presence, like I don`t want in my body.
Most stand-up comedians are not in their body, we`re in our head.
BEHAR: Yes that`s true.
CHO: So it`s -- it`s a different experience and, you know, to me I feel totally out of place. I`m around all of this like beautiful swans like Jennifer Grey and Brandi and Audrina they are just so lovely. And I just, I feel really like I`ve got to represent the real women out there.
BEHAR: I was so happy to see your mother in the audience. Because we hear so much, how did she respond to all of the, all of your dancing? What did she say?
CHO: Well, my parents were -- they were so disappointed at the judges and they were trying to encourage me. But they had fear in their eyes like, oh, Asian do really well on the show. There was Ono and the Yamaguchi and they do. Asian do well. But the fear in their eyes.
BEHAR: There was fear in their eyes. Poor thing.
CHO: Asian do well. They were like, this is the hardest thing we ever did. We live through war; this harder than that.
BEHAR: So how bad could this be?
Does it help you to know that Peewee Herman is a fan? He blogged that you were beautiful.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: That was sweet of him.
CHO: I love him. I love him. And I`m so -- I feel so uplifted by that. And people have been so wonderful and supportive. And it`s hard because, you know, we`re doing the show. And I`m actually still on tour too.
So I`m out there doing comedy and out -- all over the place and still -- you know, we`re dancing on the bus. Me and Louie are dancing on stages, we`re dancing in parking lots. We`re just getting the time wherever we can. Because I still have to do my life and the show.
BEHAR: That`s right. You must do it. I mean, there are --
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: -- rumors that Bristol Palin, who was on the show also, was acting diva backstage. Was she?
CHO: I didn`t see that. You know what -- she is such a nice girl. She`s a really young mom. And I mean I don`t know how she`s doing it all.
She`s really not diva-ish at all. I don`t think anybody has been really diva-ish. I haven`t noticed it. I mean, I have -- I`ve been watching for it too but everybody has been really cool and really -- I think because we`re all like now -- especially after last night, nobody knows if they are safe or they are going, you know it`s just -- everybody is kind of -- in the same boat.
BEHAR: Well everybody is wondering if Sarah Palin is going to show up one night. Is there any kind of scuttlebutt? Is she coming? Is Levi Johnston coming?
CHO: Supposedly -- he`s so hot. I hope so. He`s really hot.
BEHAR: You`ll have to fight Kathy Griffin for him.
(CROSSTALK)
CHO: He`s so sexy. But hopefully Sarah Palin will come. We`re hoping to see her some time.
BEHAR: Ok.
All right. We`ll have more with the lovely Margaret Cho in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my pal Margaret Cho.
Ok, Margaret, let`s talk a little politics. Republicans in the Senate blocked the repeal of "don`t ask, don`t tell" the other day. Are you surprised?
CHO: Well, I`m very depressed about this. This and -- it even though Prop 8 is considered unconstitutional, you still have a stay of gays and lesbians getting married in California. And it`s very depressing.
I don`t know why this is happening in our country. Like we go two steps forward and one step back. It`s very upsetting.
BEHAR: Well, maybe they`re waiting for after the election in November because nobody wants to take a chance politically. That could be.
But, you know, Lady Gaga -- it was interesting -- she spoke at a Maine rally where she suggested that soldiers who don`t want gays in the military should leave. They should leave.
CHO: They should leave, yes.
BEHAR: Do you agree with that?
CHO: Absolutely. And I think Lady Gaga is so wonderful for standing up for gays and lesbians. I think this is such an important fight. It`s so disrespectful to tell people that are giving up their lives for service that they are somehow wrong for being who they are, that they have to hide who they are. And "don`t ask, don`t tell" is so fundamentally wrong.
BEHAR: Some people would say that by saying to these other soldiers who don`t want this "don`t ask, don`t tell" or they don`t want gays in the military, rather -- that they should leave was kind of not right either. Because after all, these guys are defending us abroad, et cetera. And so there are two sides to that. Maybe she should not have gone there.
CHO: There are two sides to that. Well, this is all about human rights, though, and this is all about equality. And what we`re talking about is people having the right to be themselves and to represent themselves as they are. To just love who they want to love. It`s the least we can do for people who are giving up their lives for service.
BEHAR: Ok. Let me ask you another thing. We talked about it earlier in the show tonight. About this letter that Mel Gibson has written to Oksana. He blames everything from depression to male menopause for his anger. Do you buy it?
CHO: I didn`t know that men had menopause, really? You mean, they stop getting --
BEHAR: Yes. In Florida, they start wearing those plaid Bermuda shorts with socks and sandals and they start combing their hair form their armpit, they start parting it here and coming it over.
(CROSSTALK)
CHO: All the way over.
BEHAR: That`s the male menopause. He blames it on male menopause, yes.
CHO: I don`t think you can -- but he`s been having these outbursts -- these violent outbursts for years and years. He`s been menopausal for 20, 30 years?
BEHAR: I know. It`s been a long menopause.
CHO: Quite a long one.
BEHAR: The other thing that we didn`t ask before but I`ll ask you. His friend Jodie Foster, she wrote -- she recently came out and supported him. She wrote, "When you love a friend, you don`t abandon them when they are struggling." What do you think of that?
CHO: Well, maybe he hasn`t yelled at her. Maybe he hasn`t screamed at her yet and breathed fire-breathing dragon screaming Mel Gibson on her yet. He hasn`t gone all Gibson on her.
BEHAR: I know. I don`t know that I could be friends with him. I don`t know, someone like that.
CHO: Well, he just seems really angry. He`s menopausal, you know -- hot flashes.
BEHAR: I know. When I`m menopausal, you know, you don`t feel like having sex. That`s about it. Thanks, Margaret.
Margaret Cho`s stand-up tour, "Cho Dependent" will be in the New York Comedy Festival on November 5th at the Beacon Theater.
Thanks Margaret.
The latest on rumors of Ashton Kutcher`s infidelity when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW sex trafficking of minors is quietly becoming a national epidemic. We`ll take a rare look inside America`s virgin-ing child sex trafficking industry. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Demi Moore and Ashton Kutcher are unfazed by reports that claim Ashton cheated on his wife with a 25 year old woman. But "Star" magazine says they`ve got texts to prove it. Here is Judge Karen Mills Francis star of "Judge Karen Court" and author of "Stay In Your Lane." Roy Sekoff founding editor of the Huffington Post and Carrie Keagan host of "Rock N Roll Fantasy Camp," on VH1 Classics.
BEHAR: Welcome guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK now, "Star" magazine, they have the texts, they`re pretty boring. Should I read you one?
ROY SEKOFF, HUFFINGTONPOST.COM: Am I going to sleep here Joy? If I`m going to sleep, it doesn`t go down.
BEHAR: The girl, the 21 year old, her name is Brittney, she writes,
"BRITTNEY: When`s the next time you`re going to have an empty house?"
BEHAR: And he says,
"ASHTON: Not sure. Maybe the end of the month."
SEKOFF: That is hot.
BEHAR: Is that steamy?
(CROSSTALK)
JUDGE KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, "JUDGE KAREN`S COURT": That`s Tiger Woods`s material, I think.
BEHAR: Maybe she`s just a realtor.
SEKOFF: Good point.
BEHAR: You know, but then he writes,
"ASHTON: For now, I don`t think I should be talking to any girl that`s not my wife."
BEHAR: Key words, for now.
MILLS-FRANCIS: For now.
BEHAR: OK. What do you think? Are these damaging words or --
SEKOFF: You know, look, normally, I wouldn`t care. People`s private life is their private life. But the thing about Ashton and Demi, they have promoted their relationship like it`s their latest movie. I mean once you sell your wedding photos for $3 million, game on, right? You`re saying our relationship is a product.
MILLS-FRANCIS: He`s a good-looking man. Really, she is living in a fool`s paradise if she thinks that good-looking 20-something-year-old man is being faithful. She can spend as much money as she likes on face-lifts and everything else. But no amount of money is going to buy a 20-year-old body.
BEHAR: Really, so it`s all about the body, it is not the soul?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Why does she spend so much money on her body? She`s trying to stay young for a reason.
SEKOFF: The picture she took right? She took that picture rocking in the bikini, she`s putting it out there, she`s looking pretty good.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Does not look bad.
BEHAR: Carrie, do you think this young girl made it up?
CARRIE KEAGAN, HOST, "ROCK N ROLL FANTASY CAMP": No, not necessarily. It is still an alleged affair or whatever. But I just think it`s kind gross that she`s trying to capitalize on the fact that I can say I`ve had sex with you now. And you`re going to make me famous.
SEKOFF: Please make me famous -
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
KEAGAN: I think the whole thing is -- it`s so gross that we have to live in this kind of environment now.
SEKOFF: But we live in the culture now where you can actually get a TV series based on having these kind of texts, right?
KEAGAN: And I think she signed on a manager and publicist or something. She`s actually becoming famous now. She`s someone now.
SEKOFF: Exactly.
BEHAR: So it worked. It works.
SEKOFF: You get in the magazine.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Someone as young as she is talking about morals. That`s an upstanding girl. I love it.
(LAUGHTER)
SEKOFF: So back in our day we didn`t care about morals?
MILLS-FRANCIS: No, we did.
SEKOFF: Oh I see.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But not in her day benefit.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: They`re married for five years now. Maybe it`s just a year -
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes, itch.
BEHAR: They`re tired of each other now.
MILLS-FRANCIS: The five year itch.
BEHAR: I don`t care if you`re 100, if you`re 40, if you`re 20. After five years, you get an itch.
SEKOFF: Really?
BEHAR: I believe that.
SEKOFF: I`ve been married 17 years, I`m 12 years late for the itch.
BEHAR: You don`t have to do anything about it.
KEAGAN: There is something to be said about -- we don`t know what their relationship is. It could be open. We don`t know.
MILLS-FRANCIS: That`s true.
BEHAR: OK after a lot of speculation, Ryan Seacrest finally announced American Idol new judges, Steven Tyler and Jennifer Lopez. Now you need two things to make this work, Roy, these two.
SEKOFF: Yes.
BEHAR: You need a snotty guy who is nasty and train wreck like Paula was.
SEKOFF: Right.
BEHAR: Who fits this bill?
SEKOFF: Well clearly Steven is the male Paula. Right I mean has been to rehab. He`s been known to do items of an illicit nature.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEKOFF: He`s definitely the train wreck part of it.
BEHAR: OK.
SEKOFF: And with J.Lo, I don`t know. Do you think she`s - she doesn`t quit bring that Brit edition, you know, Simon brought.
MILLS-FRANCIS: You know she`s a real diva. Apparently she got $12 million for this thing. The last few pictures I`ve seen of her, Jennifer Lopez looks like a woman who`s satisfied, in love, and happy with where she is now. Does that mean she`s no longer a diva? Time will tell.
BEHAR: Uh huh but if she`s not going to diva it up or say that was the worst song I ever heard, ala Simon, who will?
KEAGAN: I think she will.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS-FRANCIS: I think she will -
KEAGAN: And I also think Steven Tyler is going to have a good opinion about a lot of things. You know people like to write him off as this old rock star, but he has talent.
MILLS-FRANCIS: They were the only judges that were musicians of any reputation. I mean they`re big stars.
SEKOFF: But here`s the win for them. We`re talking about it. How many things could be a cultural phenomenon for a decade, right? I mean --
BEHAR: But it was one of the world`s worst secrets. We all knew this was coming. It`s the worst secret since Ricky martin came out.
(LAUGHTER)
SEKOFF: He did?
BEHAR: No one was surprised by that. On "SEAN HANNITY`S SHOW," Delaware Senate candidate Christine O`Donnell said she will no longer talk to the national media and she said if they mess with her, she`ll turn them all into toads. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O`DONNELL, SENATE CANDIDATE: I`m not going to do national media because this is my focus, Delaware is my focus. And the local media is my focus.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know she`s only focusing on Delaware. Isn`t she running for the senate?
KEAGAN: Yes she is.
BEHAR: It`s the United States senate, Christine. Not the Delaware Senate.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes but she`s a real train wreck. And the reason why she said that, I mean have you looked at this woman`s resume?
BEHAR: Uh huh.
MILLS-FRANCIS: She was a whore by her own admission, she was an alcoholic, she owed her college $5,000 for 10 years. They had to sue her. The IRS levied an $11,000 tax lien against her this year.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I mean do I need to go on?
BEHAR: Keep going.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS-FRANCIS: I have nothing else to say. I don`t want to be interviewed.
SEKOFF: Here`s the shocker. I think it was a smart move for her. Because in Delaware, the winner in Delaware only has to get 10,000 votes. I`m kidding. But it was 150,000 votes, right? And so she actually does have a way about her. She`s charming. She has presence.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes she`s got a dangerous way about her.
SEKOFF: I think she can do that.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Oh what about the witch craft -- we forgot about the witchcraft.
SEKOFF: She can do that -
KEAGAN: We can forget about the witchcraft.
SEKOFF: Yes, I think she doesn`t play in a state like New York or California where it`s all about the TV ads.
BEHAR: Right.
SEKOFF: They`re going to slammer her -- She`s going to take the clip of the judge and that`s the campaign against her. Right but if she`s at the park if she`s at the barbecue, I think she`s going to do very well. So I think this is actually a smart move for her.
KEAGAN: Oh yes it`s genius for a politician to just run and hide when people are talking about them. How you is she going to be in office? Who`s going to hide in Delaware?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Who is her mentor?
KEAGAN: Sarah Palin.
BEHAR: OK, there`s a woman who quit her job right in the middle.
KEAGAN: So any minute we`re going to give that click and shooter her. Is that what`s happening?
BEHAR: I love the paranoia. You`ll be serving -- Sarah says, use it to connect with local voters whom you`ll be serving versus appeasing National Media seeking your destruction.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Because local voters may not know about her past and the fact that even recently she moved into a town house where she`s spending half of her campaign contributions to pay for it because she says it`s her political office, OK?
SEKOFF: Judge, I have to say --
MILLS-FRANCIS: Who cares.
SEKOFF: These days if you say I can`t pay my bills, I got kicked out of my house, people go, I can relate to her, you know, as opposed to some millionaire, Christine Whitman in California spending $119 million. People go are you going to represent me?
MILLS-FRANCIS: She`s using contributions to basically live. Nobody - - you`re using other people`s money.
SEKOFF: Oh it`s definitely not right.
MILLS-FRANCIS: No. I don`t think it is right.
SEKOFF: No, I`m not saying it is right but I think the message to voters though, might be surprising.
BEHAR: All right let me move on to this other story. If you need to promote something, you go on Oprah. So that`s exactly what Jon Stewart did. The comedian is out promoting his rally to restore sanity. While there he also broke the news he`ll never run for public office. It`s interesting that the comedians are the sanest. That`s just what I -- what do you think is his purpose Carrie?
KEAGAN: I think first of all, I think he`s a genius. And I think he`s made it so politics can be talked about and be in the public eye. It`s accessible. But at the same time, he`s this guy who promoted his rally as being a sausage party. Any guy that can make this comparison and get people thinking about politics --
BEHAR: Is he a threat to the Right Wing? Is he a threat to Limbaugh and Glen Beck?
KEAGAN: Yes.
SEKOFF: Well I will say that he`s a threat in a way that great satire is threat. Right? I mean Sarah Palin with Tina Fey - what Tina Fey did to Sarah Palin, that was devastating.
MILLS-FRANCIS: You betcha. You betcha.
SEKOFF: Look back what happen with Gerald Ford after Chevy Chase did that. Gerald Ford who is our most athletic president was suddenly a stumble bumb, right? So it can really work if it`s effective. And I don`t think he has a Left or Right agenda. But I think he`s taken Glenn Beck and those guys down a number of notches with this.
BEHAR: What do you think, judge? Good idea.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes, no I think it is a good idea. But you are right, it could mean the political demise of somebody. But who`s that somebody?
BEHAR: I don`t know.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Who`s he going to take down this time?
KEAGAN: I think heap keeps things balanced. Without one extreme you are not going to have the other. So somebody`s got to make sure that it`s there`s.
SEKOFF: I mean he tells the joke on himself. Why are we doing on this weekend? We were going to be in Washington anyway. You know the show was ending Thursday. We wanted to sleep in on Friday. Halloween`s Sunday. What do you know?
BEHAR: Basically he`s appealing to people who are moderate thinkers, like we are. It`s not the Left or the Right 100 percent.
MILLS-FRANCIS: It`s the tea party.
BEHAR: It`s the people who are rational. That seems to be missing in the public discourse. I was saying during the break, do you think that President Obama should embrace the tea party?
SEKOFF: I think he has to embrace the anger. There`s a lot of anger and it`s not just on the Right.
BEHAR: I think he knows that.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But the tea party are dragging down Democrats who moved over to the independent side. Those independents should be more on the democratic side. But the tea party, Obama needs to be a little smarter about it.
BEHAR: Thank you so much everybody you were great.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Thank you.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: There`s an alarming new epidemic in this country. Kids as young as 11 being sold into slavery. It`s gotten so bad Congress has already begun hearings on the topic. Here to discuss just how bad it is and how to protect your kids are Timea Nagy, author of "Memoirs On Of A Sex Slave Worker," and a victim crisis counselor. Lisa Brandt, whose daughter was taken and reportedly sold to a man in Texas for $300,000. And Sharyn Alfonsi, ABC News Correspondent who is doing a series of reports on America`s child trafficking industry for World News Tonight.
Sharyn, let me start with you. It reaches into communities across America. Everybody thinks of it as a foreign problem. They`re in, I don`t know, Nepal and Malaysia. It`s happening right here.
SHARYN ALFONSI, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: We`ve heard anywhere from 100,000 to 300,000 girls a year are being domestically trafficked for sex. And we went to Portland, Oregon, one of the most livable cities. It`s a national hub for child sex trafficking, Portland.
BEHAR: Wow this is interesting to me. Crime rings say trafficking girls is easier than trafficking drugs nowadays. Explain that. What is that about?
ALFONSI: The people now operating these rings -- and they`re sophisticated -- are for the most part gang members. They`ve realized, if I get caught with a bag of cocaine, they`ll throw it into the evidence room and that`s it, I`m done. But if you have a girl, maybe you can keep her away. You can reuse and resell that product over and over again. They make a lot of money selling and reusing girls. These girls are treated like products in such a way that one girl we met had a bar code tattooed on her. And it was the pimp who said in essence, you`re my property.
BEHAR: Uh huh, is it just girls?
ALFONSI: We primarily found girls. We have had instances of young men but it`s primarily young girls.
BEHAR: No do the girls, are these abducted girls like in the mall or do they go along with it?
ALFONSI: It`s interesting. It is sophisticated. I had this yelled of a pimp of a purple suit and a hat. And these girls will be in the mall and they say, come to this party. Maybe they`ll meet an older guy. And the way we`ve heard it. They kind of psychologically figure out what their needs are. If you`re a teenager, you`re insecure about something. Maybe you need money or dad`s not paying enough attention. We met a girl, she didn`t have enough money. He started buying her shoes. Then he turned and said, listen, you know what, I can`t afford this stuff anymore. I need you to help out. Just dance one time at a strip club.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
ALFONSI: And she was on the dance floor as a 13-year-old, 13 years old, stripping. And she was scared and cried and said, I`m done. I don`t want to be here. They said, you need to stay through your shift. She said, I don`t work here. They said, you do now.
BEHAR: Then it became an abduction?
ALFONSI: Then she ended up you being prostituted.
BEHAR: She couldn`t run away?
ALFONSI: She couldn`t run away. They have a lot of eyes on these girls and will keep them in a house and keep them locked up.
BEHAR: All right, Lisa, let me talk to you about your daughter who was taken in Florida and reportedly sold to a man in Texas for $300,000. Tell me what happened there.
LISA BRANDT, DAUGHTER IS A SEX TRAFFICKING VICTIM: Actually, the way they got to my daughter, she was attending a night school. And they called the people they send in to target my daughter, they called her a bottom bitch. She started befriending her and come home to me, happened to go off with the girl. My gut instinct told me not to let her go. Which I`ll tell you that. I let her go anyway on the terms I met this so-called father. And when he come and met me, I still had a bad instinct but Shauna begged me to let her go. I let her go. It was supposed to be for the weekend. They got her on a Friday night. Late Sunday, I got a phone call. All I heard was mommy, help me. The phone went dead. We didn`t hear from her no longer. So we contacted the police and were told that Shauna was a juvenile delinquent and they would not help me.
BEHAR: Really? But I understand that she was rescued after four days by Mark Klaas?
BRANDT: Yes. Klaas Kids. Wonderful organization.
BEHAR: Uh huh so that ended up okay for her. But for you, she`s now 21 years old and she has a bad drug problem and she`s not speaking to you. She blames you?
BRANDT: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. She doesn`t think she needs counseling. And every time I bring up the fact, she thinks I`m turning my back on her. But I don`t know what else to do to help her. You know I`ve tried being there for her. She pushes me away and gets angry at me and blames me.
BEHAR: Uh huh.
BRANDT: She tells me, I wish you would have never found me.
BEHAR: That`s sad. Now Tamaya, you were lured to Canada from Hungry with the promise of a job. What happened?
TIMEA E. NAGY, AUTHOR, "MEMOIRS OF SEX SLAVE SURVIVOR": When I arrived to Canada, the job wasn`t what they promised me. Obviously I was taken to strip joint. I was told that I have to start to strip to pay the debt that I owed them now for bringing me over all the way from Hungry.
BEHAR: Really? And but you got out. How did you get out of it? How did you escape?
NAGY: I didn`t speak English, so it was a very long story how. But eventually I started to communicate with staff members in one of the strip joints. And through a dictionary. They really pretty much helped me to get out.
BEHAR: I see. You know Craigslist, Sharyn, has just shut down their adult services ad. Is that just a drop in the bucket such?
ALFONSI: It is just a drop in the bucket. There are five or six websites that just deal with women who are being prostituted and victimized. In fact, there`s one website that actually reviewed the girls. And it said, she can`t be older than 14 years old and there`s pictures.
BEHAR: It`s legal? This is legal to do?
ALFONSI: Exactly. It`s like for restaurants but they`re interviewing underage girls.
BEHAR: Oh my god, can`t this be stopped?
ALFONSI: Different cities are looking at ways to stop it. One of the things Portland is looking at making the fees against johns really expensive. Not a couple of hundred dollars but thousands of dollars and impounding their cars and saying, we`re going to take your car from you. And everybody on the title needs to sign it to get the car out of the impound lot. That means you and your wife. Instead of targeting the girls who are victims, they`re switching things and targeting the johns.
BEHAR: OK I want to take a break. I want to continue and find out what people can do about it when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I went to a strip club and danced or whatever.
ALFONSI: You danced at a strip club?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
ALFONSI: How old were you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Fourteen. I said. I want to go home. And I said, I don`t work here. He said, well you do now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a clip from my guest, Sharyn`s Alfonsi report on America`s child trafficking industry for ABC`s World News Tonight. Lisa and Timea, both of you, you both fight against child sex trafficking. What would you think is the most important thing that you can tell parents who are watching this show to protect them from this horrendous practice? Lisa?
BRANDT: The first thing --
BEHAR: Either one of you.
BRANDT: The first thing I would tell them is stop trying to be your children`s friend. Stand up and be a parent. That`s -- you know, that`s the main thing I seen that I did wrong. Get more involved. Be nosey. You know, yes, they`re going to be angry at you but they`ll be alive.
BEHAR: I see. If they`re on the -- but if they`re on the internet looking and trolling around, how do you protect them? I mean you don`t even know what they`re doing?
NAGY: Exactly. You`re right about that. The other thing is I would say the key is actually I know they are going through a difficult time. And sometimes they think there`s nobody else who loves them, which is why they get charmed into this literally. When they have a gut feeling, go with the gut feeling. When the gut feeling is telling you not to go there, don`t go there. That was specifically for the kids versus the parents. Because you`re right, the parents can`t really unfortunately can`t really protect the kids when it comes to this stuff.
BEHAR: You find, Sharyn, there`s a vulnerability in a lot of these runaways and they`re sort of easy prey for these horrendous pimps. You know pimps can sell minor girls for $400 an hour on America`s streets. It`s a money making operation and a lot of these kids, they feel isolated from their family and friends.
ALFONSI: And it`s important to note, they`re not all runaways. Some of these girls are at home and things aren`t fine. Maybe their parents are going through a divorce, something simple. And dad`s not paying enough attention to them. These pimps aren`t brutish guys wearing purple velvet suits.
BEHAR: No, what are they like?
ALFONSI: They are smooth. They figure out what do you need. You need a little attention, I`ll give you attention. Your mom is not giving you enough respect, I`ll give you respect.
BEHAR: You`re not getting the Louis Vuitton bag, I`ll buy the -
ALFONSI: Louis Vuitton bag. Every one of the girls we spoke to thought the guy was her boyfriend. Then it switches.
BEHAR: Yes, Timea -
NAGY: There is one thing that`s very interesting. It came to me as I was working with victims that apparently there`s a pimp rule book. And there`s a book that are training these men where to find the vulnerable girls. So by the time these guys get to the victim, they know exactly what these girls need. They know exactly how to approach them. There`s a whole process in the book that actually trains them how to get this girl off the streets and get them behind the condo or apartment building and make them work for you.
BEHAR: It`s like terrorism.
ALFONSI: It is, it is.
BEHAR: It`s a terror irk scheme.
ALFONSI: Yes, these girls have Stockholm Syndrome. They really do identify with these girls. They think that these guys like them and that`s why they`re taking care of them.
BEHAR: Yes.
ALFONSI: And then once they`re in so deep, that`s how they switch and they can`t go back.
BEHAR: And like they said before, watch out for a bottom bitch. A girl who befriends you at the mall and says I`ll help you.
ALFONSI: You like my bag, my shoes, I can help you get this let me introduce you to somebody.
ALFONSI: Just remember that the bottom bitch was probably his very first victim. Because the reason why she became a bottom bitch because she got promoted, right.
BEHAR: Yes, she was a victim in the first place. OK, thanks very much ladies for joining me tonight and thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
