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Joy Behar Page
Connecticut Family Murder; The Evolution of Christine O`Donnell; Clinton to Dems: Fight Back
Aired September 27, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
BEHAR: Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore tweeted a picture of themselves in bed to tell people that despite rumors of marital problems, they`re still in love. But you know, they`re not the only lovers trying to work things out. Some of us are too busy to tweet. Actually, it`s the only way I can get him to watch my show.
Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW horrific details continue to emerge in the trial of Steven Hayes accused of robbing, torturing and burning alive a Connecticut mother and her two daughters. How will lawyers defend the man who seemingly couldn`t wait to commit these heinous crimes?
Then the evolution of Christine O`Donnell continues with her unique thoughts on evolution.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O`DONNELL (R), DELAWARE SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: Evolution is a myth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From Lindsay to Paris to Ashton, Americans love their celebrity gossip. "Entourage" star Adrian Grenier is here to talk about his documentary that examines our suffocating paparazzi culture.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Testimony continues this week in the trial of Steven Hayes, one of the two men accused of tying up, sexually assaulting and murdering Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her two daughters before setting their home on fire in 2007. Her husband, Dr. William Petit, was home at the time, but managed to escape after he was tied to a pole and badly beaten by his captors.
After all the horrific testimony so far, how is anyone supposed to defend this guy against a possible death sentence?
Here now with the latest is Sunny Hostin, legal contributor for "In Session on TruTV and a former federal prosecutor; Vito Colucci private detective and former Connecticut police officer; and Brian Russell, forensic psychologist and attorney.
Ok. Vito, there are new photos of the burned house out now. You`re a Connecticut police officer, is this one of the worst cases the state has ever seen?
VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE DETECTIVE, FORMER CONNECTICUT POLICE OFFICER: Well, Joy, I can tell you this much. Since being involved in police work since the late 1960s or PI work, this is the worst I`ve ever seen. This rivals the Truman Capote "In Cold Blood" Clutter family story. Worst I`ve ever seen, Joy.
BEHAR: Well, how about the Charles Manson -- those were bad? The Manson murders.
COLUCCI: Yes, they were bad. But we`re on the level of the top ones here. This is horrible. He took sexual pictures of this family too, after he was done sexually assaulting them. Then poured the stuff on them and burned them to death, that`s unbelievable.
BEHAR: It`s disgusting. You know texts were released from Hayes to the other suspect. He says, "Are we still on?" And then the second text, "I`m champing at the bit to get started." Brian, what do these texts tell you?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: I`m so glad you asked that, Joy. Because many people have probably watched us covering this case at home and said, what a couple of sickos, what a couple of psychos. Well, these texts show you, Joy, that they knew exactly what they were doing. They knew it was wrong, because they told Jennifer Petit if she told anybody or called the police, they`d kill the family back at home when she`s at the bank withdrawing the money.
They knew what they were doing. They knew it was wrong. That`s not mental illness. Are they sick? Yes, of course. It`s sick to even want to do something like this, but that`s the sickness, the wanting to do it. The actually doing it, the actually following through, knowing what you`re doing and knowing it`s wrong. That`s not mental illness, Joy, that`s something else.
And every adult watching has to decide for themselves, is it psychopathy, depravity, evil? Whatever you call it though, it absolutely exists and you can see it when you see these guys` mug shots.
BEHAR: So I guess the insanity plea may not work for them? Good.
RUSSELL: No way.
HOSTIN: Yes. I don`t think it`s going to work for them.
BEHAR: Now, nobody`s supposed to discuss this case in public. And yet the lawyer for this guy, Steven Hayes, did discuss it. What did he say?
HOSTIN: Well, it was actually his co-defendant`s lawyer. It was Joshua Komisarjevsky`s -- and he got on -- and I was there, sort of this impromptu press conference. He got on the courthouse steps and basically said, "You know, my client is being misinterpreted in the courtroom." What really happened, she was not -- Michaela, the 11-year-old girl -- she was not anally raped, he just masturbated over her.
And he said that he wanted to give the family some sort of solace by making that statement. I have to tell you, we were all outraged, everyone that was covering the story. And the family -- the Petit family and the Hawke family -- they were all completely outraged and really have asked for this particular attorney to be found in criminal contempt.
And just today the court did issue a show cause order to show -- he has to now defend himself as to why he shouldn`t be put in jail for that statement that he made.
BEHAR: The lawyer?
HOSTIN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
HOSTIN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: It`s a disgrace.
HOSTIN: It was horrible.
BEHAR: Now, how are these lawyers it going to defend these guys? They`re heinous.
HOSTIN: You know, the standard for the death penalty, and really we all know now -- it`s really not whether or not Steven Hayes is going to be convicted, he is going to be convicted. It`s overwhelming the evidence against him. It`s whether or not he`s going to be put to death.
The standard that the prosecution has to show is, were these crimes heinous? Were they atrocious? Were they cruel? We heard testimony Joy last Friday that they set these girls on fire while they were alive. I think it`s going to be very difficult to defend.
I think we`re going to hear some testimony about perhaps Steven Hayes` mental capacity. I think we`re going to hear about childhood abuse. I think we`re going to hear that he`s a drug addict, an alcoholic. Will that work?
BEHAR: The abuse excuse.
HOSTIN: Exactly -- I just don`t think it`s going to work.
BEHAR: Brian, Hayes is the one who`s on trial right now. How will his lawyers even attempt to humanize this creep?
RUSSELL: Well, they`ll try to put out there in the penalty phase, just as Sunny said, mitigating evidence. But you know what, Joy. None of it is going to matter. If the guy knew what he was doing, and he knew it`s wrong, and I don`t really care if he helped an old lady across the street sometime when he was a teenager. I don`t really care if he has bipolar disorder, if he is a substance abuser, if the other guy planned it and roped him into it, none of it matters. In my book, he gets the max.
BEHAR: Vito, what about the argument that he may have been under the influence? Will it hold any water?
COLUCCI: It won`t hold any water. His lawyer is trying to say that he was under the spell of Joshua, the other co-defendant in this case. He`s not as bad as Joshua is.
None of this stuff is going to hold water. This case is going to be resolved very quickly at the end in deliberations. It`s going to set a record, I`ll tell you that much for how quick.
BEHAR: This guy Sunny, he tried to kill himself in February. They`re going to argue that that shows that he`s remorseful?
HOSTIN: They are going to argue that. Let me also say this, we`re showing this mug-shot of this guy. When I walked into the courtroom, he doesn`t have that badass look any more. He`s lost a lot of weight, he looks very frail. He looks like a different person. And I think the jury is going to notice that. They have noticed that.
But let me say this, when I tried these types of sex crimes cases, which I did. Jurors never looked at the defendant because it`s hard for people to pass judgment on others. These jurors are glaring at this defendant day in and day out.
BEHAR: So that`s not good for him.
HOSTIN: It`s not, not good.
(CROSSTALK)
HOSTIN: It`s going to be quick.
RUSSELL: Don`t buy the remorse for a second. Don`t buy the remorse for a second. Anybody who would feel bad about having done something like this would have never done it in the first place.
BEHAR: Now, Hayes` lawyer brought into evidence cell phone pictures of the other guy, the other guy who took pictures of the girls` genitals while they were tied up in the bed. What`s the strategy here, for them to turn on each other and give evidence against the other guy?
HOSTIN: That must be the strategy. Absolutely.
RUSSELL: Right.
HOSTIN: It must be Steven Hayes, I`m bad, but I`m not as bad as this guy, I was under his Svengali-type of thing over me. I just don`t believe that will work. Because remember, this is the defendant that went out and bought the gasoline.
So when you look at all of that, he raped Mrs. Jennifer Hawke-Petit, he bought the gasoline, he was there all the way throughout, how do you find him not guilty? I just can`t imagine.
BEHAR: I mean Vito, this is an anomaly. I mean people at home are thinking, oh, my god, this happened at night, in their own house in a really nice neighborhood. These kinds of things don`t happen every day.
COLUCCI: Cheshire is a very safe town. This is the talk -- this case is the talk of the country right now. When the prosecutor summates this case at the end, he`s going to keep repeating the words, champing at the bit, champing at the bit because that`s what these people were looking to do, Joy. And they`re going to get it.
BEHAR: Now Connecticut has only put one person to death in the past 50 years.
COLUCCI: Only one since 1950, I believe it is. The last 50 years.
BEHAR: Do you think it will happen? Is it going to happen here?
COLUCCI: I believe so. I mean, they might as well throw out the death penalty if these two guys don`t get it. That`s how I feel.
BEHAR: What do you think?
RUSSELL: Yes. It`s about to be three.
BEHAR: Right.
RUSSELL: It`s about to be three, and I`ll pay for the injection myself.
BEHAR: You know, it`s the funny thing about capital punishment. You know, you`re always against it, because you want to rise above the sort of Neanderthal behavior. And yet why do they have to stay on the earth, these two? Who needs them here?
HOSTIN: And I will tell you, I spent last weekend in New Haven, Connecticut; and I was just chatting with people on the street and every single person said to me, I don`t believe in the death penalty, but this is the case for the death penalty.
BEHAR: This is it.
HOSTIN: And that was really the consensus.
BEHAR: Look at Charles Manson, we mentioned him before. He`s still in jail, and he still has access to the media every once in a while, it`s obnoxious.
RUSSELL: It`s like General Schwarzkopf said if you`re a religious person -- "I don`t know what God does to people like this, but I`ll be happy to arrange the meeting."
BEHAR: Ok. That`s good. On that note, we`ll leave. Thanks for the insight everyone.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Ashton Kutcher and Demi Moore try to put rumors of cheating to bed by tweeting a photo of themselves in bed.
And "Entourage" star Adrian Grenier drops by to talk about his new documentary "Teenage Paparazzo".
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: First sex, then witchcraft, now Darwin. We`re learning a lot about Delaware GOP Senate candidate, Christine O`Donnell`s beliefs. Take a look at this 1998 appearance she made on "Politically Incorrect". Bill Maher played it on HBO`s "Real Time."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O`DONNELL, DELAWARE GOP SENATORIAL CANDIDATE: You know what? Evolution --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The way that things have been created.
O`DONNELL: -- evolution is a myth, and even Darwin himself.
BILL MAHER, CO-HOST, "POLITICALLY INCORRECT" ABC NEWS: Evolution is a myth?
O`DONNELL: Yes, you know what.
MAHER: Have you ever looked at a monkey?
O`DONNELL: Well, then why aren`t they -- why are monkeys still evolving into humans?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I give that two opposable thumbs down.
By the way, Bill Maher will be a guest here tomorrow night. But tonight here to talk with me about this and more political news are CNN political contributor, Hilary Rosen and S.E. Cupp, co-author of "Why You`re Wrong about the Right".
Hello ladies.
HILARY ROSEN, CNN POLITICAL CONTRIBUTOR: Hello.
S.E. CUPP, CO-AUTHOR, "WHY YOU`RE WRONG ABOUT THE RIGHT": Hi Joy.
BEHAR: Now, I`ll start with you S.E.
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: How do you think this latest clip makes her look? Remember, she`s 30, not in high school now?
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: Ok.
CUPP: You know, first of all, I`m going to be on Bill Maher next week. My only goal is to not be the new Christine O`Donnell. It`s the only goal I have.
BEHAR: That`s a good goal.
CUPP: What was she thinking? It`s not like this is a hot mike situation, these are clips that she said on television. They`re coming out.
That said, I don`t give a hoot about her witch craft beliefs, her evolution beliefs, her masturbation beliefs. The only thing that makes her problematic as a candidate for me is the fact that there are multiple allegations of campaign fraud against this woman. Those raise eyebrows to me as a conservative and I don`t think it`s getting enough attention.
BEHAR: But it doesn`t bother you at all that somebody with these anti-diluvium ideas could possibly be voting on stem cell research --
CUPP: Sure.
BEHAR: creationism --
ROSEN: Joy I mean --
BEHAR: -- all that stuff? Who could harm us --
CUPP: Sure.
BEHAR: In case we have a disease?
CUPP: Her -- her beliefs about evolution might be scary here in New York or in L.A., but frankly a lot of people in the middle of the country agree with her. So really it`s -- that does not concern me if I`m a strategist looking out for Christine O`Donnell. What bothers me is that she`s been accused on more than one occasion of campaign fraud and theft of services.
BEHAR: Ok, Hilary, could this be endearing at all to these people that S.E. is referring to in the middle of the country? I don`t know why you`re saying in the middle of the country, they`re in Staten Island.
ROSEN: You know what, I think the best tweet of the day was this, why are there still monkeys? Well, education is real, why are there still morons? And so Christine O`Donnell she -- she has just gone so far beyond, I think, where legitimate candidates come from this sort of realm of public service.
I do think S.E. has a point, which is we can spend all of our time on the -- on the Democratic side demonizing her positions, but maybe we do better by fostering more doubt among Republicans about her instead of --
CUPP: Yes.
ROSEN: -- sort of making ourselves feel better.
BEHAR: Right, it could be -- there could be some backlash, I think --
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: -- is what you`re saying.
CUPP: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, I don`t know that Democrats should be harping on it, either. I mean, it`s enough for comedians to do it.
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: But I don`t know if Democrats should bother. Do you agree with that, Hilary?
ROSEN: Well, I guess, I do. I think the good news, is that actually the reason that Karl Rove says that he doesn`t like Christine O`Donnell and doesn`t support her, is because he thinks she actually can`t win because we have in Chris Coons a solid candidate, but more importantly, the numbers in Delaware, just don`t vote for right wing crazies.
And they needed to nominate a moderate Republican and they chose not to. So --
BEHAR: Where do they vote for right wing crazies?
ROSEN: I think right wing Nazis --
BEHAR: What -- what states do we have to worry about? We`ve got another right wing crazy in New York City, in New York State, rather, which I`ll get to in a minute.
Now, she appeared -- O`Donnell, she appeared on "Politically Incorrect". I`ve been on that show and so have you. You`re going to be on that show next week? Ok, we`ll watch.
She was 22 times through the 1990s --
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: And he says there are more clips to come.
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: Isn`t that a good thing?
CUPP: Sure. I mean, again, again, she said these things on television.
ROSEN: Perhaps it`s a good thing.
BEHAR: Yes.
CUPP: I mean, she said these things on television --
BEHAR: Yes.
CUPP: And I`m sure she was a great guest for saying these things. It`s why he has people like her and frankly and probably people like me on in case we say something crazy -- that he -- and all his fans can then sort of throw rotten tomatoes at.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know -- I mean, I can`t read his mind.
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: I don`t think that`s what he`s up to. I think he wants the opposing view he wants his audience to hear the opposing view, so he puts someone like you -- you are not crazy. He likes you to be there.
CUPP: Thanks.
BEHAR: But it`s not as much fun --
CUPP: We`ll see.
BEHAR: -- it`s not as much fun --
ROSEN: It`s not nearly as much fun.
BEHAR: No.
ROSEN: I`m sure.
BEHAR: Exactly.
ROSEN: But you know, I`m looking forward to the release of more video, this one`s going to be good for the next week.
BEHAR: Are you kidding? For my show too? I love it, it`s better than Mel Gibson.
ROSEN: Exactly.
BEHAR: Ok, I wonder does she also believe in the tooth fairy? That`s my question to Christine.
CUPP: Her values -- but her values on these issues don`t frank -- frankly do not concern me if I`m looking at her as a candidate. She`s got so many red flags, there`s a reason she has never been elected --
BEHAR: Ok.
CUPP: -- despite trying so many times.
BEHAR: All right, let`s go to another candidate that seems to have ridden the Tea Party wave all the way to the Republican nomination --
ROSEN: Right.
BEHAR: -- is Carl Paladino, who`s running for the Governor of New York. Only now we learn he has a love child, and it`s a secret he kept from his wife. Maybe his campaign slogan should be "no love child left behind". What do you think?
All right, do we care about this particular piece of news, Hilary?
ROSEN: This is why we care about it, because this guy has spent the last several years sort of judging everybody else`s life, right? From when he was attacking Michelle Obama to him being anti-choice, to him being against same sex marriage.
People in glass houses should not throw stones. It`s one of the first things I learned when I was younger, that this guy just -- he -- he`s not trustworthy. You can`t -- anyone who would be that big of a hypocrite should not be in public Office.
BEHAR: And a liar, and a cover -- a cover-upper.
ROSEN: Right.
BEHAR: S.E.?
CUPP: Yes, I mean, again. Again, I really don`t care what he does in his house. And the fact that his wife seems to be ok with it all these years later, that`s enough for me. What I don`t like is his attitude calling Governor Pataki for example a degenerate idiot. I don`t think that`s professional.
BEHAR: And that`s in his own party.
CUPP: Yes and after he got an endorsement from him. I mean, I don`t think he`s professional. I think he`s kind of dirty. And -- and I don`t know if we can patch together some kind of quote work of -- of character from all of these -- these issues.
But I don`t like the way he behaves, frankly.
BEHAR: Well, so -- so with him, it`s not about campaign that he can`t win, it`s about the way he behaves with you.
CUPP: I think he`s great on the issues. Frankly, if I look at his platform, I like him on the issues. What I don`t like his personality, and I`m a conservative.
BEHAR: What about the fact that he has --
ROSEN: But the issues are hollow. I mean the fact that -- the fact that he`s a multimillionaire but is against insuring uninsured people. The fact that he has, you know, lived this ridiculous life, that many have led and then judges others. You can`t be ok with that on the issues and still want to go forward.
BEHAR: We`re out of time for this segment. We`re going to have a little bit more with you two broads.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Bill Clinton was on the campaign trail this weekend telling Democrats to fight and stop hiding under the desk. And if anyone knows what goes on under a desk, it`s Bill Clinton. So is he asking for too little too late?
I love Bill Clinton, and it`s fine with me about his peccadillo`s about Monica Lewinsky. But I`m a comedian and I don`t let things like that go.
CUPP: Right.
BEHAR: All right. Now, while he was appearing in Connecticut for the Democratic Senate candidate Richard Blumenthal, Clinton said, "You can make a difference. You have to work hard, not sit out." It`s another way of saying -- what is that another way of saying, in your mind, Hilary?
ROSEN: Well, you know, one of the things that we`ve lost. You know, in 2008 we had what people in my profession call the enthusiasm meter, but that we were much more anxious for change than the other side was. And we`ve lost that.
The other thing that Democrats did is that we became the party that said you can make a difference. The self-empowerment, it`s be the change, and President Obama ushered that in for us. I think that President Clinton is right. We lost that a little bit.
What he`s saying is, we can focus on the right wing crazies like Christine O`Donnell, but most of us don`t live in Delaware.
BEHAR: On the other side of that, he acknowledged the mood of the country and the anger that`s coming out of these Tea Parties and coming out of Glenn Beck and people on the right who are so angry. He says, "Any time in life you make a really important decision when you`re mad, there`s about an 80 percent chance you make a mistake."
So your side is much more angry than the left?
CUPP: I think Democrats are angry too, and that`s why there`s this enthusiasm gap that he`s addressing. Democrats have not lost their mojo, they`ve lost their base.
I don`t know what Democrats were expecting when they sort of went along with Obama policies over the past year that they knew their constituents didn`t want and they expected to get away with it. They have to answer for that, whether it`s health care or spending. And they`re answering for that now at the polls. It`s 30-plus days away.
And it`s a little too little too late.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right, Hilary.
ROSEN: It`s not Democrats don`t want what`s been happening it`s that our expectations were higher. And the economy has taken a big toll on the ambitions of President Obama and the Democratic congress, but guess what? The Republicans have said nothing about what they want to do.
And I don`t think -- I think all we have to do is focus the country on who do we trust, who`s going-forward? Because nothing the Republicans have said so far would be anything different, and anything new than what we had for those eight years of turmoil.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They are running on empty on your side. I`m sorry. They have no new ideas whatsoever. Cut taxes? Keep the Bush tax cuts. That`s all I hear from them.
ROSEN: Right.
CUPP: Well, it`s a good idea. And it makes sense and there are a lot of Democrats who agree. That makes sense right now.
(CROSSTALK)
ROSEN: S.E. You can`t sit there and talk about runaway spending and then spend for the tax code. It doesn`t work. That`s spending -- hello. Math 101.
BEHAR: I can`t believe you could say that you`re a rational human being. It didn`t work for the Bush years it brought us into the deficit. Why would it work again?
CUPP: So spending more is the answer? That`s the Democrats answers.
BEHAR: Cutting taxes will put more money back into the country.
CUPP: Yes. The people who need taxes are employers, they`re at the top.
BEHAR: Well, you know what? The top also is under $250,000. These are small business people too.
CUPP: Absolutely. We all need tax cuts across the board.
ROSEN: Who do you trust not to give the federal treasury away?
BEHAR: Who do you trust?
CUPP: According to polls, it`s not the Obama administration.
ROSEN: No, you`re wrong.
BEHAR: No, it`s Christine O`Donnell.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Thank you, ladies, very much.
I have to go. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on JOY BEHAR SHOW, David Beckham says tabloid rumors says that he had sex with prostitutes are complete lies and now he`s suing. And, "ENTOURAGE" star Adrian Grenier stops by to talk about his latest project, teenage paparazzo. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Ashton Kutchner and Demi Moore celebrated their fifth wedding anniversary this weekend by watching "Breaking Bad" in bed. How do I know? Because sadly I follow Mrs. Kutchner on twitter. Here to discuss Ashton and Demi bedtime routine and other stories of the day are comedian Judy Gold, "Maxim" editor and chief, Joe Levy, and actress, Laura Innes. Welcome guys to the show.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you.
BEHAR: Look at this picture. Where is it? OK, there`s the two of them in bed. Would you say that this photo is proof, Joe, that Ashton is not cheating on Demi?
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM: Yes, that`s the proof that I need, is the picture of the two of them in bed looking adorable. Absolutely adorable. Celebrating their wedding anniversary by watching excellent television about a guy who makes meth. What a good way to do it. I don`t know why my wife and I haven`t thought about it.
BEHAR: Now you can try it.
LEVY: Pull the covers up and watching a movie about somebody makes drugs. I mean this does feel a little calculated. There`s a story out there that Ashton has cheated with some Ashton Ashton-obsessed --
BEHAR: Yes that`s right.
LEVY: Twenty one year old. And instead what we get from them is a complete denial, a picture of the two of them in bed and by a tweet-by- tweet account of every time they kiss in public.
BEHAR: Well Laura, do you think, would you ever do this with your husband by the way?
LAURA INNES, ACTRESS, "THE EVENT": Would I ever go to bed with my husband?
BEHAR: No.
INNES: It depends. I`ve been married a long time. Since I -
(LAUGHTER)
INNES: No, you know, I would - I could never ever imagine. Well first of all, if I took a picture of my husband in bed. It would not be cute.
BEHAR: No.
INNES: It would be kind of gross, he has the CPAP, so it would be - it wouldn`t be the same --
BEHAR: And he`s not young like Ashton, I would think. I mean does he wear footy pajamas in that picture by the way?
JUDY GOLD, COMEDIAN: He`s wearing a onesie. He`s wearing a onesie.
BEHAR: He`s got a onesie on.
GOLD: I heard that she was actually texting Justin Bieber.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK.
GOLD: That`s it? That`s it, really? Wow!
BEHAR: Do you think there is a similarity or is it a coincidence? I mean we know it`s a similarity between Yoko and John years ago.
GOLD: Right when they took -- but that was sexy and they were musicians.
LEVY: That was a bed-in for peace. The whole thought they were going to create world peace by getting into bed together. Make love not war. Whereas this is a bed-in for publicity -
BEHAR: For a piece, a piece -
GOLD: A piece of the pie.
BEHAR: Well there they are, side by side, can you see them.
GOLD: Yes, very similar. I mean do you really think Ashton is going to wipe her in the home for the aged? I don`t think so.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So why do you think, Laura, they`ve become such a target for the tabloids?
INNES: Well you know, I think because they just completely asked for it. I mean, they`re whole - a good portion of what they do for their careers is based on this exact kind of thing. So it`s very organic for them.
BEHAR: Well do you think it has anything to do with the fact that he`s 15 years younger than her? If they were the same age, would anybody care as much? I don`t know, Joe.
LEVY: They may not care as much. But I mean honestly, if you`re famous and you`re the same age or he`s 15 years older and there`s somebody out there willing to say to a tabloid magazine, I had sex with him. It`s still going to be a story.
BEHAR: But anybody can say anything, right?
LEVY: Yes, and that does seem to be the problem. It`s also the reason why I`m here, but it does seem to be the problem.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Judy doesn`t Ashton need Demi more than Demi needs Ashton?
GOLD: Oh, yes. No actually, I think Demi might need -- Ashton really needs to be on camera.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Demi needs him more for her clear?
GOLD: I don`t know, I think he`s hip and cool, and makes her seem young. I don`t know.
BEHAR: He`s a compulsive tweeter.
GOLD: Yes.
LEVY: That`s his compulsion, is tweeting.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s - at this point.
LEVY: I`m kind of glad you are the one that said it. I didn`t want to have to say it, but yes, it is - you know they were asking for it, to this extent they`re very much living their lives in public.
INNES: Yes.
BEHAR: They`re asking for trouble.
INNES: Yes.
GOLD: When you do that, you`re so inviting people in to criticize you. Don`t act like your marriage is so perfect.
BEHAR: I know.
GOLD: He`s 32, he was 27 when they got married.
BEHAR: No, he was younger than that. He was what -- how old was he when they got married?
LEVY: I have no idea, 15, 16.
GOLD: I think it is 27 because it is only their five year anniversary.
BEHAR: Oh yes, five years, OK.
GOLD: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes, 27 nowadays is too young to get married.
GOLD: Yes, I mean his testicles dropped and then he married Demi.
BEHAR: Well Demi is the poster child for the cougars though. Is this going to - what is this going to do for the cougar movement.
INNES: I`m very frightened, myself. I`m going to protect the cougars. We are an endangered species.
BEHAR: OK next story, David Beckham is suing "In Touch Weekly" after they published a report saying he was bending it with $10,000 a night hookers. Then on Friday he exploded at a fan that was taunting him after a soccer match watch --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID BECKHAM, SOCCER PLAYER: Stop with the prostitutes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want to say it again? You got a galaxy shirt on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s quite hot, isn`t he?
(LAUGHTER)
INNES: He`s good looking.
BEHAR: Do you think he is overreacting in that piece, though?
GOLD: He has got the adrenaline, he just lost a game. You know, he`s like --
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: Overreacting in what way? Didn`t he just walk up to a dude and say, do you want to say it again? Say it to me? That`s like a meeting of parliament. Isn`t it? I mean it is basically - that`s the way they conduct the government over there.
BEHAR: I know they`re terrible that way. But don`t you think he could just ignore it? Make it go away?
INNES: Yes but why should he? He`s part of the same culture as everybody we`re talking about. They`re part of that world, they perpetuate it. So mean this is good for him.
BEHAR: Well I mean, he seems to be -
LEVY: That didn`t seem that bad. If you read about this online, it seems like he jumps into the stands and starts pounding the guy.
GOLD: Yes, beat the crap out of the guy but he didn`t. He just went over him --
BEHAR: Well he`s appearing to be macho about it.
GOLD: Right.
INNES: Yes.
BEHAR: And he`s also suing "In Touch Weekly."
LEVY: Yes.
GOLD: Twenty five million dollars.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLD: That is an expensive prostitute.
BEHAR: So that tells me maybe he`s not guilty. Because - that he didn`t do it.
INNES: No, it`s probably --
BEHAR: Most of the time people that are involved like this, they don`t sue.
INNES: It`s reverse psychology maybe, you think, oh, maybe he didn`t do it.
BEHAR: But it puts the burden on them now to prove it.
INNES: Yes but maybe -
GOLD: Why does he need a prostitute? Look at him, he could get anyone.
BEHAR: I mean how could he find a woman prettier than he is out there?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I think that`s hard to do.
All right now, I`ll tell you what he did. He`s suing "In Touch" and a former prostitute Erma Niche (ph) for liable slander and intentionally causing emotional distress. Here`s what Niche said about him in the magazine. This is too funny. "On a scale of one to ten, Beckham was a 7.5 as a lover." That is very wrong of her. He needs a ten. If you`re going to say something about him, say he`s a 10.
GOLD: What prostitute is named Erma.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Erma Legoose.
LEVY: That`s true.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: She took her prostitution name from the classic Shirley Maclaine, because that gets business in this day and age from young guys.
BEHAR: She also recalled that Beckham used lotion from the hotel bathroom to pleasure himself. She says it was perfumed, so it burned him. PMI.
LEVY: See now this is where the story falls apart for me. Not that I have firsthand knowledge, but I don`t think the perfume burns.
GOLD: You have left hand knowledge.
LEVY: I do actually. But it was fantastic. But I did perfume, it shouldn`t hurt. I think that`s ridiculous that`s where she lost all credibility for me.
BEHAR: OK, very good.
LEVY: Ten thousand dollars a night?
BEHAR: Well I don`t believe that.
LEVY: That also seems a little excessive doesn`t it?
BEHAR: I mean really, that`s too much money for -
LEVY: Because when you`re past $2,000 for a night. I just think like --
BEHAR: But he`s like worth a lot of money, so --
LEVY: Sure.
BEHAR: Now he told the magazine that these allegations are false. You worked for -- you`re in "Maxim" magazine?
LEVY: I do. I work for maxim magazine.
BEHAR: Does this happen a lot?
LEVY: Not to us. But we don`t publish scurrilous rumors.
BEHAR: Ever?
LEVY: Ever, if we do, it would be rock solid. I would say that "In Touch" has been in the position in the past of being accused of not having all their facts right more than once.
BEHAR: OK.
LEVY: I think the one where they said that Jen tried to get Brad back using aliens? Was like -- I didn`t think that panned out.
BEHAR: OK, moving on, octomom, Nadya Suleman --
GOLD: Oh god.
BEHAR: Suleman, hey Mr. Suleman -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Holding a garage sale to make money. She was even selling her nursing bra which I hear seats 12 comfortably.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK now 150 people showed up for this yard sale. They had to stop traffic. Now, would you be surprised -- why is someone interested in an old nursing bra? What type of pervert is buying this nursing bra.
LEVY: Do not knock my hobbies. It`s valuable, I can sell it on Ebay, it`s going to get more valuable, it`s going to appreciate overtime. This was a good investment.
INNES: How much did you pay for it?
LEVY: I don`t know. I have no idea. I just hope my bid went through. I don`t know.
BEHAR: The poor girl, this is why I feel sorry for her. She doesn`t have a manager. A, why doesn`t she have a reality show. Kate Gosselin has all this money coming in. This one`s far more interesting in my opinion. She`s a little boxy, crazy.
GOLD: Right.
BEHAR: And so it`s even more interesting for a reality show. And the poor - this is what she did. She took pictures with people at the yard sale. She sold, for $100, you got a picture of her with eight kids or $10 just with her. I mean that is underselling yourself. Those are Christmas cards.
GOLD: That is true. That would be a great Christmas card. I heard she was selling used diapers as well.
BEHAR: No.
GOLD: No, I was kidding, it was a joke.
BEHAR: You made that up, a $450,000 balloon payment on a house. Her expenses are $10,000 a month. Poor girl.
INNES: Awww.
GOLD: OK, but she had eight kids and she already had six, and she`s - -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know.
GOLD: I don`t care, she did it to herself.
BEHAR: That ship has sailed, now she`s stuck with these kids.
INNES: Yes you are right, you should manage her, you need to reach out to her.
GOLD: Yes Joy has a lot of free time.
BEHAR: Well she`s been offered $500,000 to do a porno flick.
LEVY: It may be a very limited audience.
INNES: What is the audience for that? It`s really --
BEHAR: Maybe the perverts who were at her yard sale.
LEVY: Yes, it`s kind of like the Brady Bunch all in one -- it`s terrible, a bad idea.
BEHAR: We`re out of time, thank you, guys, very much for stopping by.
GOLD: Thank you.
INNES: Thank you.
BEHAR: You can see Laura in "The Event" Mondays at 9:00 p.m. on NBC.
"ENTOURAGE" star Adrian Grenier joins me to talk about our celebrity obsession next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Adrian Grenier is a real-life celebrity who also happens to play one on TV`s "ENTOURAGE." In his new documentary, "TEENAGE PAPARAZZO" he explores the nature of fame by turning the cameras on the paparazzi and on his relationship with one street smart 13 year old. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ADRIAN GRENIER, DIRECTOR, :TEENAGE PAPARAZZO": I got -- paparazzi call sprayed by 10 or 15 flash shots by the kid. And I was completely shocked, of course. And he started running away. I said, hey, wait, come back. What was that all about? What are you doing? He said, paparazzi, dude. I was totally confused. I said, you`re a paparazzi? He said, yes. I said, how old are you? Thirteen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The kid is like a young Mia Farrow. Doesn`t he look like her? With me now is the lovely and talented Adrian Grenier. Hi kiddo.
GRENIER: Hi.
BEHAR: Why would a kid who is 13 years old do this? Go out at night by himself, stalk celebrities. What made this kid act like this, did you find out?
GRENIER: Well yes, he had the proximity. He was right there, he was growing up in west Hollywood, he saw celebrities out and about, he took it one step further, took his camera and decided to go out and make something of that experience. Respond to all these encounters.
BEHAR: Yes so he took the opportunity that presented itself. But he`s 17 years old now?
GRENIER: He`s getting there, he`s almost 17.
BEHAR: Is he insured? Was he insured when he was 13?
GRENIER: You know, I don`t think so, no. I mean, just standard insurance. I don`t think they have paparazzi insurance.
BEHAR: Yes, they don`t? They should.
GRENIER: They should right.
BEHAR: They really should. Because they`re really targets too, because a lot of these celebrities like Sean Penn. Remember when he use to attack paparazzi. And a lot of others.
GRENIER: I think suing the celebrity is the insurance, you know?
BEHAR: That`s true.
GRENIER: Yes, you get a good payday there.
BEHAR: I saw that the mother in your documentary was very supportive of her little boy when he was young doing this. What did you make of her?
GRENIER: Well, she`s definitely nurturing his instincts and he definitely have the drive. He`s a little entrepreneur. He`s a young, precocious punk entrepreneur. And he`s out there. She sees a spark of the drive, and she wants to support him.
BEHAR: Yes well, I can identify with that as a parent. You want your kid -- you have the kid that starts the lemonade stand. You see entrepreneurial spirit. But this kid is in danger in Los Angeles. 13, that`s four years ago. I don`t know what the crime rate was in Los Angeles at that time. When I was in L.A. back in the late 80s, people were getting mugged left and right. Larry Davis - got mugged.
GRENIER: I got mugged in L.A.
BEHAR: OK, but now it`s different there I guess now?
GRENIER: Well, he has streets smarts at this point. More than I had at that age. More than I have now. I`m very impressed with him. I mean you`re right there`s no easy answer, is she putting him in more daring? I guess parenting is difficult when you`re trying to balance this stage in their lives where you don`t want to clip their wings but you want to keep them safe.
BEAHR: The other thing about this kid is that he loves it so much. And he`s quoted in the pictures as saying, he said, I think it was in the movie, he says, his dream shot would be of David Beckham smoking a joint holding hands with his new girlfriend. He knows the scoop right now, he gets it.
GRENIER: Yes, he does. He knows it`s all stories and hearsay, and those are the salacious story that are going to sell.
BEHAR: Yes.
GRENIER: Which, to me, is the most sinister part of this whole situation, because when young kids start to see that if you pretend that you know something about someone and you make up slanderous hails, you`re going to make money. And the main goal is making money, it`s not a human choice.
BEHAR: It`s not good. When you tried to encourage him to be a real photojournalist, which is a high-esteem job, he wasn`t interested, because he`d rather make the money, this kid. I think he`s headed down the wrong path, my own opinion.
GRENIER: Yes, well, we`ll see after the movie comes out. And hopefully the experience of making this film with me, and the -- what we discovered together, he may turn his life around.
BEHAR: I hope so. You know, every star we see, they seem to have a love/hate with the paparazzi. On the one hand it`s like no, no, no. Yes, yes, yes. They`ll call up their publicist and say, I`m at the Ivy, you know. I mean, that`s annoying. When they start to complain and say, oh, the paparazzi, it`s very hard to have sympathy for these stars.
GRENIER: That`s part of the game, you know, the woe is me, you know, look at me.
BEHAR: Yes, look at me.
GRENIER: You know it`s part of the intrigue, when you`re running and someone`s chasing, that`s part of the drama. And that`s what sells.
BEHAR: And we`re all guilty, because we all read these magazines. Whenever they have a spread on who has cellulite I`m there. But this M.I.T. Professor said something interesting. I only have a short time for this segment -- when we come back, we`ll talk about that. That was very interesting. But quick question before we go. The cult of celebrity, how is it different in New York from California? Is it easier here?
GRENIER: Well, all the celebs are in L.A..
BEHAR: Yes.
GRENIER: It`s the land of show business. That`s where everybody goes to be seen, and, you know, that`s where the paparazzi show up.
BEHAR: Right but the actors are here, the real working actors are here?
GRENIER: Right, the thespians.
BEHAR: OK, we`ll have more with Adrian Grenier when we return.
NANCY GRACE, HLN ANCHOR: Hello, hello. Stay with us, friends. We are seeking justice.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you make the call off?
GRENIER: Are you kidding me? I`d be humiliated. These guys got "EXTRA" and "ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT" here tonight just to see this. And he`s doing the stunt with me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?
GRENIER: Yes it will be fun.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the Adrian Grenier. I have some Twitter questions for you. But before we go to that, there is one good thing about these gossip magazines that this M.I.T professor explains in the film. Tell the audience.
GRENIER: Henry Jenkins. And you know it makes sense. He says the gossip in a lot of ways tabloid is a way for us to share values with each other, sort of this water cooler moment where we can, you know, approve or disapprove of what we see celebrities doing.
BEHAR: Right.
GRENIER: So it is a way to project our ideals.
BEHAR: So they serve a purpose?
GRENIER: They can. It can.
BEHAR: So when Lindsay Lohan is in and out of rehab, you say, that wouldn`t happen to my kid. Or I would do something different from what her parents did?
GRENIER: Well our approval or disapproval helps us to define who we are as a culture. Our ethical, you know, cutoff point.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. That`s a very smart point he makes.
GRENIER: I agree.
BEHAR: OK in the twitter world they have some questions for you. How did you feel about appearing nude in this season of "ENTOURAGE."
GRENIER: That`s a curve ball.
BEHAR: I didn`t see it, was it - yes, I know.
GRENIER: We`re talking about serious stuff here, you want to talk about my behind.
BEHAR: Well this is twitter question -
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So was it full frontal or the behind?
GRENIER: No, that was Sasha.
BEHAR: Really? I missed that one.
GRENIER: No one wants to see my full frontal.
BEHAR: Oh, contraire mon ami. Everyone in this room would like to see it. And now the women. OK. Now Vince dated porn star Sasha Grey in the season of "ENTOURAGE." Someone wants to know would you ever date an adult film actress in real life? A porn star.
GRENIER: You know, I`m a liberal guy, I think love transcends all. So if I fell in love, sure.
BEHAR: Really, OK, do you prefer acting or directing? Someone wants to know.
GRENIER: You know, they fulfill different aspects of myself, but you know, I feel like they`re from the same instinct, the desire to communicate and tell stories.
BEHAR: Right.
GRENIER: I like it both.
BEHAR: OK. Adrian, they say you did a documentary called "Shot In The Dark" about finding your biological father. Do you keep up your relationship today?
GRENIER: He`s in the green room.
BEHAR: Is he here.
GRENIER: Yes, do you have a cutaway? He`s there. No, it`s awesome, I made a documentary many years ago to find him. And now all these years later, he`s here to support me and --
BEHAR: You met him when you were how old?
GRENIER: I was 23.
BEHAR: That was the first time you ever even saw your biological father?
GRENIER: Well, I saw him -- I grew up with him when I was very young, and then we were estranged for many years. But we definitely didn`t stay in touch. And then I sort of, you know, went back to find him.
BEHAR: So was it -- I didn`t see the film yet, you`re going to send it to me. Was it a warm meeting when you finally got back to him?
GRENIER: You know it gives me goose bumps even just thinking about it. That moment is caught on tape where I saw him for the first time, and it was just this -- this child like awkwardness, of you know, seeing your dad.
BEHAR: It`s so nice you have gotten together with your dad, you`re a lovely guy. I wish you good luck in your career, in all of them.
GRENIER: Thank you.
BEHAR: In all of them
GRENIER: Thank you.
BEHAR: "Teenaged Paparazzo" can currently be seen on HBO and HBO on Demand. Good night, everybody.
END
