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Joy Behar Page
Van Der Sloot Offered Drugs?; Should Steven Hayes Die?; Modern Mom: Julie Bowen
Aired October 07, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, accused killer, Joran Van Der Sloot is caught on tape allegedly being offered drugs behind bars. We`ll show you the exclusive video.
Then "Modern Family`s" Julie Bowen talks about the hottest sitcom on TV and juggling her life as a TV mom with her real life mom duties.
Plus the one and only Charo brings her Spanish flair to the studio.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Joran Van Der Sloot is currently being held in Peru on charges that he murdered 21-year-old Stephany Flores. CNN has obtained exclusive video of him in prison allegedly trying to buy drugs. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I have marijuana, are you buying?
Gringo Van Der Sloot.
JORAN VAN DER SLOOT, ACCUSED MURDERER: Can you sell it to me for five soles.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You want five more? And five fakes?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, now. Here now to explain what exactly is going on in that video is Beth Karas, legal correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV. Hi Beth.
BETH KARAS, LEGAL CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Hi.
BEHAR: Van Der Sloot`s attorney says the whole thing is staged. Is that possible?
KARAS: Well, good evening, Joy. You know, there are a lot of questions still about that video. His lawyer says it was a setup. You see, he`s being offered marijuana to buy. He asks a question. The video does not depict a transaction. There`s no evidence that it ever occurred, that is, that there was ever a sale.
However, the prison authorities say they are investigating this. They believe that it was an inmate offering this to Van Der Sloot, that`s what the prison authorities are saying. But the person who is speaking to him is unidentified. Van Der Sloot is there with his shirt off. He had been painting his cell.
It`s a little mysterious how a camera got in there. The quality is not really high quality. Whether it`s a cell phone video, we don`t know. Reportedly this was taken in august, but, again, the date is even uncertain.
BEHAR: Right. But he doesn`t actually obtain the drugs.
KARAS: Right.
BEHAR: Not that I care and not that it matters, but can he get into trouble for this? I mean he`s going to be spending many years in jail anyway.
KARAS: He is. He`s facing up to 35 years if he`s convicted of first- degree murder in Peru. Now, he can`t really get in trouble for this because there`s no evidence that there was any transaction. Moreover his lawyer does say this was staged.
So it needs to be investigated. There are still too many questions to say for sure. Had he purchased something or had he solicited it and went up to somebody and said are you offering anything I`d like to buy, that`s a different story. But here he was being asked the question. So maybe it really was a setup.
BEHAR: When is the trial date for Stephany Flores?
KARAS: You know, the investigation is still continuing so they don`t have a trial date yet. However, he`s only facing up to 35 years. I say only because first-degree murder in our court, in most states carries a much higher sentence.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. But Peru doesn`t have a death penalty or a life sentence.
KARAS: They do not.
BEHAR: So if convicted, what could he face?
KARAS: Well, he could face as little as seven year but no more than 35 years. And if he does it day to day, day for day, he`ll be out of prison some day, however, there`s a good possibility there would be a hold on him because he has an extortion case pending in the United States, and who knows if Aruba will ever come up with charges too.
So maybe he`ll be shipped to another jurisdiction if he ever gets out of the Peruvian prison and he would, I guess, in his late 50s.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks, Beth.
KARAS: My pleasure.
BEHAR: So Joran will be spared the death penalty but how about Steven Hayes? He was just convicted of the brutal murders of Jennifer Hawke-Petit and her daughters, a crime so heinous that there`s a lot of people rethinking their position on the death penalty.
Here now to debate the death penalty are Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and radio talk show host; and Bruce Shapiro, co-author of "Legal Lynching: The death penalty and America`s future. Ok.
Bruce, you`re against the death penalty, right? In all cases.
BRUCE SHAPIRO, CO-AUTHOR, "LEGAL LYNCHING": Yes.
BEHAR: Am I correct?
SHAPIRO: In all cases.
BEHAR: But this guy was convicted of six capital crimes, he invaded the home. He kidnapped, raped, murdered, and set the house on fire. So there`s no question this guy is guilty. We know it.
SHAPIRO: Look.
BEHAR: So --
SHAPIRO: I know this case very well.
BEHAR: -- why not just get rid of him?
SHAPIRO: It`s a city -- I live in the city of (INAUDIBLE) where this case was tried, just down the road from these horrible crimes that Hayes has now been found guilty of. Guilt is not a question in this case. It is a brutal horrible crime, there`s no doubt about that.
BEHAR: Right.
SHAPIRO: The issue is not about Steven Hayes` brutality or the acts of which he`s committed. It`s actually about us. This isn`t about Steven Hayes. This is about us.
What is a death penalty for? Is it for deterrence? Well, this was -- the death penalty -- you know, murder and horrific crimes were not deterred in this case. Is it about --
BEHAR: Punishment? Vengeance?
SHAPIRO: If it`s about blood vengeance, then we`ll get that. But blood vengeance, bloody action is what happened in a house in Cheshire, Connecticut, that two people, one now convicted and one facing trial committed.
BEHAR: So you`re saying we should rise above it as a country?
SHAPIRO: I think we have to decide that as a country we`re going to join every other industrial nation and say we don`t have to lower ourselves.
BEHAR: Ok.
SHAPIRO: -- to the level of this kind of act.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Ok. Curtis, you don`t agree with that. Do you believe in the death penalty in all cases?
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Almost all. I`m a real Neanderthal. I`m a knuckle dragger on this. In fact, I would offer Hayes, think, cigars, cigarettes (INAUDIBLE). Would you like a blind fold or no blind fold? In fact you can have an extra barrel of Kentucky Fried Original Recipe as your last meal.
BEHAR: So you would pull the trigger yourself.
SLIWA: Oh, not only that -- switch, fire up, all sparky. I`d give him the choice -- the options by becoming --
SHAPIRO: But Curtis, isn`t the idea of this kind of big public spectacle. It`s exciting and arousing -- isn`t this actually one of the things that feeds violence? Isn`t this one of the things that gets -- makes it -- makes people think it`s ok?
SLIWA: A year from now we`re going to be watching Lockdown Raw and we`re going to see Steven Hayes say, you know, with Nazi swastika on the middle of his head giving interviews. And my feeling is people need to see there`s a price to pay. I don`t care if it costs more money. If it goes through an appeals process, it`s not a deterrent. I`m old testament on this.
BEHAR: You know, Bruce, I used to be against it too. I used to always be against it because there was no DNA evidence and a lot of innocent people were getting executed. We know that for a fact. Now that we know that somebody is completely guilty and we know for 150 percent, then why do they have the benefit of remaining on this planet when they`ve done something so awful as this?
SHAPIRO: First of all, in the Hayes case as in every case, as the U.S. Supreme court, including every Republican justice has ever said, the jury is going to decide on whether there are any mitigating factors, which could be mental, which could be psychiatric, which could be about the circumstances. My own guess is that in this case the mitigating factors are not going to outweigh --
BEHAR: I think it`s premeditated if you look at the facts.
SHAPIRO: If you look at the facts, if the jury decides, this is a heinous premeditated act. That`s not a question. And the Petit family suffered horribly as a result.
BEHAR: Horribly.
SHAPIRO: But the issue is not whether it`s premeditated. The issue is the penalty itself. My view is that, yes, you could railroad, you could speed through a quick execution as my friend here says of Steven Hayes.
BEHAR: He`s ready to do it himself.
SHAPIRO: But when you do that, if you take the most guilty -- and this man is the most guilty of the most brutal crime, you are also speeding up the trial, speeding up the execution, speeding up the machinery of death for those who may be innocent, for those for whom the process is failing.
We can`t short-circuit this process because we`ve learned that there are dozens of people who have been exonerated after being on death row. I`m not saying this is one of them because he`s not.
BEHAR: Not the people who have DNA evidence against them. Those people have not been exonerated.
SHAPIRO: There are many kinds of exoneration. DNA evidence is one kind, there are also flaws in trial, all kinds of things.
BEHAR: All right. That`s true. But, Curtis, why aren`t you satisfied with life without parole anyway?
SLIWA: Well, look, if the victim -- the surviving victim -- because remember only the husband, the father, survived. If he all of a sudden decided he wanted to be Mahatma Gandhi on this or Martin Luther King Jr., turn your cheek, you know, sing Kumbaya, that`s different. Then I would say, ok, the victim here has said he wants the death penalty.
(CROSSTALK)
SHAPIRO: But Curtis, interestingly, there are many cases, quite a few cases of victims, surviving family members who supported the death penalty when the murderer of their loved one was convicted, who later on came to oppose it. There`s a whole organization called Murder Victims` Families for Reconciliation.
BEHAR: Why, because they kill like they murdered somebody? Why? Why do they regret it?
SHAPIRO: Because for one reason or another in some cases they came to believe in the innocence of the killer -- of a convicted killer. In some cases they simply came to believe that enough violence had been done. In some cases they felt that the process -- that the process of appeals, that the process of execution itself would simply reawaken. You should ask them but there are a lot of people.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok. Go ahead.
SLIWA: These cretins with chromosome damage met each other in jail and they get out, they follow this woman, they go to the store, they come back, they make her take money out, they come back, they raped the two daughters, they kill the woman, they try to kill the husband. I mean come on already.
BEHAR: And then they burned the house down.
SHAPIRO: No question.
SLIWA: There`s no doubts whatsoever.
SHAPIRO: Curtis.
SLIWA: Guilty, so I say put the juice in their caboose.
SHAPIRO: This is -- it`s not about them.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Beautifully put.
SHAPIRO: It`s not about Steven Hayes. It`s about who we are. And that`s the question here.
BEHAR: I see your point -- and there`s a racial component in this -- all of this conversation, isn`t there? Isn`t it true that there are more African-Americans on death row than white Americans? Is that a fact?
SHAPIRO: Disproportionately represented on death row.
BEHAR: Ok think of that for a second.
SHAPIRO: Not only disproportionally on death row but African- Americans are disproportionately executed even among those on death row. That`s been an underlying problem with our death penalty --
BEHAR: What do you say to that Curtis?
(CROSSTALK)
SHAPIRO: -- since the 19th century.
SLIWA: But guess what? We hit the grand slam. We`ve got some white guys here that we can fry. That was no question --
SHAPIRO: But fry -- but Curtis, frying --
SLIWA: Fry --
SHAPIRO: -- frying the white guys -- frying the white guys doesn`t solve the problem of a justice system --
(CROSSTALK)
SLIWA: But -- but you remember Bill Clinton when he was governor running for the presidency and he had to show us that he was law and order. He fried two guys all in one night. A black guy and a white guy, so he made sure it was even Steven.
BEHAR: But do you know.
SHAPIRO: Well, this actually then goes --
BEHAR: Ok.
SHAPIRO: -- again to the question of who we are. Are we going to be a politician who has explain the death penalty --
BEHAR: They did -- well, they did a study and they found that black defendants are more likely than white defendants to receive the death penalty for killing a white victim.
So if you`re going to do the death penalty you have to make it across the board if you`re going to do it. You can`t just say these and not these.
SHAPIRO: And it is still --
(CROSSTALK)
SLIWA: Ok, can we start with Hayes?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, but his point is right. If it`s more black guys getting killed when they kill a white guy it`s not even now and that has to be corrected.
I`ve got to go. Thanks, everyone.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, from the hit show "Modern Family" actress Julie Bowen.
And why do women fake orgasms. Our expert panel answers some of life`s most perplexing questions about sex and relationships.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: She`s the anchor and managing editor of E!News. He was Donald Trump`s first apprentice. Together they`re the stars of "Giuliana and Bill" on the Style Network and are the authors of "I Do, Now What? Secret stories and advice from a madly in love couple".
I`m happy to welcome back to my show, Giuliana and Bill Rancic. Welcome guys.
BILL RANCIC, AUTHOR, "I DO, NOW WHAT?": Thanks Joy.
GIULIANA RANCIC, AUTHOR, "I DO, NOW WHAT?": Thanks for having us, Joy.
BEHAR: Aren`t you afraid to write "a madly in love couple" just in case down the road? I mean, isn`t that a little tricky that title?
B. RANCIC: It`ll come back to bite us. Yes.
BEHAR: It could come back to bite you.
G. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: Not that I`m wishing you harm. I`m just --
G. RANCIC: And I didn`t sign a pre-nup, so he`s stuck with me Joy. We`re not a --
B. RANCIC: It`s not for a lack of effort I tried to get her to sign the pre-nup.
G. RANCIC: As you`ll learn in Chapter 1, he tried. Donald Trump called him and said you`d better get a pre-nup with this Joy, yes.
BEHAR: Oh really, what`s it to him?
B. RANCIC: Oh yes, we`re friends, I mean, looking out for his protege.
G. RANCIC: His first apprentice --
BEHAR: Really.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
G. RANCIC: But it was funny because then I got cornered by Suze Orman --
BEHAR: Oh yes.
G. RANCIC: -- the financial guru.
BEHAR: She said you get one.
G. RANCIC: She said you`d better get a pre-nup. I said, well, yes he wants to be -- I said, no, no make him sign a pre-nup.
B. RANCIC: And with pleasure.
G. RANCIC: And she goes, you never know what might happen tomorrow. You might get the job of a lifetime and said you`re making more money than him. So that`s should be very interesting -- so that -- you know that`s something we tackle because a lot of couples have to decide pre-nup or to merge your bank account or not to merge.
So --
BEHAR: What do you do? Do you have separate monies?
B. RANCIC: At first we did.
BEHAR: Yes.
B. RANCIC: At first, everything was separate. And then we eventually over the -- of course the three years we kind of merged the -- the accounts --
G. RANCIC: Yes.
B. RANCIC: -- and now it`s all one big happy family.
G. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: What do you think about Donald Trump running for president now that you mention his name?
B. RANCIC: Good for him. I mean, if he does it -- I think he will get a lot of support.
BEHAR: You do?
B. RANCIC: He is a smart guy.
BEHAR: He`s very smart.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: And he`s successful on what he does and he has great opinions sometimes.
B. RANCIC: He`s got great opinions.
G. RANCIC: Yes.
G. RANCIC: He`s so honest.
BEHAR: You know he and I were in a fight at one point. But we didn`t like each other but then one day he said that he thought that George Bush was an idiot and I liked him then. He said he`s a disaster. And I said oh, now I like you.
B. RANCIC: You bonded instantly.
BEHAR: Yes.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: Now let me -- you both have been very open about your struggles to conceive.
G. RANCIC: Right.
BEHAR: -- even -- undergoing IVF on your show.
G. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: And -- and let`s look at the tape of that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: While you`re doing, you`re going to want to start that gynerolic (ph).
G. RANCIC: And where does that go?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Stomach.
B. RANCIC: That`s a lot of medication, man. I`m like holy smokes.
G. RANCIC: I don`t think we realized the sort of scheduling that goes into IVF.
B. RANCIC: She has to do all the hard work.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Now the IVF worked but then and you got pregnant.
G. RANCIC: I did.
BEHAR: And then you had a miscarriage.
G. RANCIC: Right.
BEHAR: So what happened to you? What happened?
G. RANCIC: Yes, basically the pregnancy was going great, eight weeks in. And we went in for just a routine ultrasound and they told us we had lost a baby. And it was obviously devastating.
BEHAR: Yes.
G. RANCIC: Bill and I have shown the world our struggle to try to have a baby. But you know, honestly, Joy, at first it was -- there was a lot of anger and there was a lot of sadness and now -- now that we`ve had time to really think about it we realize that it worked. I mean, IVF did work. And half the battle is trying to get pregnant.
So yes, we did miscarry but that shouldn`t discourage us or really discourage anyone from trying.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, was there something -- was there something wrong with the -- with the fetus?
B. RANCIC: But -- the most -- it was the most common chromosomal abnormality that you can have.
BEHAR: Ok.
B. RANCIC: So it happens in probably 90 percent of the miscarriages that are out there, which is a good thing. So it wasn`t something rare or unusual that you haven`t seen. So we`re very optimistic and we`re very positive and we`ve kind of taking that experience and we`re trying to turn it into a positive by helping other couples --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is that why you are doing the --
B. RANCIC: -- who are going through this.
BEHAR: -- the "Promise" show.
B. RANCIC: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Because this is a very personal thing. By telling people about all of that stuff and you seemed to be --
B. RANCIC: We had the choice to cut it out like the -- the producers --
BEHAR: Yes.
B. RANCIC: -- and the people at E! and staffs and said you know, we understand this is very personal. You know if you want to cut it out, we can do it. And we said, no, we`re going to -- we`re going to keep it an open book, we`re going to hopefully help other couples going through this. One in four couples trying to get pregnant miscarry their first time.
G. RANCIC: One in four.
B. RANCIC: It`s a big number.
G. RANCIC: Isn`t that incredible.
BEHAR: So why is it such a taboo topic? People don`t want to talk about it.
B. RANCIC: Nobody.
G. RANCIC: Because people don`t talk about it. You know and as -- as soon as you start talking about it, everyone starts talking about it. When I first confided in a few people that I`ve miscarried, three of my best girl friends told me they had miscarried this year, in just the past year.
BEHAR: Really.
G. RANCIC: -- and they are in their 30s and they miscarried their first pregnancies. They`re my three best friends.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s too painful for people to talk about because in a certain way it is losing a child.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: These are -- that you feel --
G. RANCIC: We are even sure. There`s a shame.
B. RANCIC: I think there`s a little bit -- yes, there`s shame that attached in and the people that we`ve talked to.
BEHAR: The same but you didn`t step up.
B. RANCIC: Right.
BEHAR: That you didn`t do it right.
B. RANCIC: We didn`t do it right.
G. RANCIC: Or -- or did I do something wrong. You know what did I do to lose this baby and it`s not until you speak to other people that you realize I didn`t do anything wrong. This happens to a lot of people.
BEHAR: So would you try it again IVF?
G. RANCIC: Absolutely. And we`re looking at all our options.
BEHAR: Adoption? Surrogates? What else would you try?
G. RANCIC: Everything.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
G. RANCIC: I mean, we`re kind of going -- you know we started with the natural and trying to do it the natural way. We moved on to IUI, which is an in-office procedure and we moved on to IVF. If that doesn`t work, surrogacy; it that doesn`t work, adoption so we`re kind of doing everything and so --
B. RANCIC: But -- but we`ve got a great doctor. I mean, we did a lot of homework. I`m the research guy. I found one of the best doctors in the country with a tremendous rate of success.
BEHAR: Well, if you really do want it and I think you`re going to stay married.
G. RANCIC: I think so. Thanks Joy.
B. RANCIC: Yes.
BEHAR: How long are you married now?
B. RANCIC: Three -- over three years.
G. RANCIC: 3 1/2 years.
BEHAR: The hardest is after two years. Not the seven-year itch. It`s the two-years.
G. RANCIC: No and we`re getting better and better; we get closer and closer, especially with experiences like this.
BEHAR: That`s good.
This is a terrific book for people to read about if they`re having their difficulties and just being married et cetera.
G. RANCIC: Thanks Joy
The third season of Giuliana & Bill premiers Monday on Style.
Up next she`s a mom from the hit show "Modern Family"; Julie Bowen is here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Julie Bowen plays a mom of three on one of TV`s hottest show, ABC`s "Modern Family. Take a look at that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If (INAUDIBLE) are so stupid, why do you put mine in front of the refrigerator?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because we feel sorry for you because books are your friends.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She wasn`t studying last night, she was videotaping the whole time.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Shut up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I knew it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You are such a tattle --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take it down a notch.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What`s the hot topic on "The View" today ladies?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The hot topic on this show is Julie Bowen, actress and spokesperson for the American Lung Association`s Faces of Influenza campaign. You know, people love this show. It`s great show.
Because it comes from three different -- first of all you have a traditional family yourself.
JULIE BOWEN, "MODERN FAMILY": In real life, yes. It`s pretty traditional. I`ve got three kids and a husband and we all live together and sometimes we hate each other, sometimes we love each other.
BEHAR: You all live together. That`s very unusual.
BOWEN: We live under the same roof. That`s very traditional and kind of unusual these days.
BEHAR: But they`re all under three or something, I read?
BOWEN: I have three under 3. I have a 3-year-old and then I have twin 17-month-olds.
BEHAR: Oh, my goodness.
BOWEN: All boys.
BEHAR: All boys.
BOWEN: I`m the only member of the female persuasion in the house.
BEHAR: They love their mommy though, boys.
BOWEN: They do, but they`re confused come bathtub every now and again. It`s like one of these things is not like the other.
BEHAR: Do you believe in taking a bath with your boys when they`re 6 years old?
BOWEN: I don`t know. I`m pretty sure -- that my oldest is only 3 and I`m already getting the vibe that he`s got questions I`m not ready to answer so I can`t see that happening a whole lot longer. Even though like -- he`s only 3.
So six seems -- I don`t have a 6-year-old but (AUDIO GAP) I don`t want to judge or nothing.
BEHAR: I do. I think it`s ridiculous. Imagine if it was a father with a 6-year-old daughter. People would send them to prison.
BOWEN: That`s a little creepy.
BEHAR: Now, people wanted to see the gay kiss on your show.
BOWEN: They did.
BEHAR: You have the gay family played by Eric Stonestreet and Tyler Ferguson. And then they did last week for the first time.
BOWEN: But it was handled so effortlessly and there was such a big hullabaloo about it and our writers are so smart that they handled -- they made it such a natural thing. It just happened in the background.
It said in the script -- which you don`t see here -- it said, and in the background they kissed, no big deal, just as it should be. Which gives me chills because that`s exactly what was portrayed on the screen and that`s exactly what it should be like. They`re gay. Who gives a rat`s ass? Do we really still care?
BEHAR: I know. I don`t have a clue why people give a rat`s ass.
BOWEN: I really don`t care.
BEHAR: They care because they`re gay and they`re in the closet. That`s my theory.
BOWEN: I think people are just bored. I don`t know.
BEHAR: They`re just bored?
BOWEN: They`re just bored -- really there`s got to be something else to talk about.
BEHAR: I know. It`s so irritating to me.
Let`s talk about the flu vaccine for a second. What do you say to parents who are anxious about getting their children vaccinated?
BOWEN: Some people are anxious. I love living in America. I love a healthy debate. I did my research though. I talked to my doctor plus I have this arsenal of my sister being an infectious disease doctor. And all information I gathered told me this was the right choice and there`s no evidence of it being dangerous.
I`ve been vaccinated. My family has been vaccinated. We`re all fine. If you have a question, talk to your doctor. Talk to your doctor. Don`t listen -- I`m not a doctor.
BEHAR: No. But you feel that the flu vaccine should be given to everybody.
BOWEN: Over six months of age.
BEHAR: Over six months of age. My little baby`s got it, absolutely yes. And if they don`t have insurance can they get somewhere else?
BOWEN: You can get it at CVS, Walgreens, Rite Aid, you know. The list goes on. They`re all over the place. You can see -- they have signs out now, flu clinic today. It`s so easy to get. And the reality is, little kids, especially old people, immune-compromised people -- the flu is a big deal.
BEHAR: Right. Ok. Thanks very much, Julie.
BOWEN: Thank you.
BEHAR: Sit tight, everybody. Up next, why do women fake orgasms? You know, I`ve been known to fake it in my day --
(CROSSTALK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, singer, guitarist and one of a kind pop icon, Charo drops by to spread a little coochie coochie. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: She`s afraid of her hooty coochie.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s like a lot to say.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why is divorce down? Why do women fake orgasms? Should men start frying the bacon that women are bringing home? Damned if I know but I am hoping my guests have a clue. Here to talk about these and other mind bending mysteries about women, are actress and star of ABC`s "MODERN FAMILY" Julie Bowen, Kate White editor in chief of "Cosmo" magazine and Sari Locker, sexuality educator and author of "The Complete Idiot`s Guide To Amazing Sex." Welcome, ladies, to the show.
Now the divorce rates are falling down. Do you think it has something to do with the recession?
JULIE BOWEN, STAR, "MODERN FAMILY": I don`t know. I mean is it cheaper to get a divorce? If it is, I`m in. No, I love my husband. I`m not getting a divorce. Do we need an economic expert.
KATE WHITE, EDITOR-IN CHIEF, COSMOPOLITAN: Well there is a theory that you know GenX and GenY they are the children of divorce. They are being smarter about their choices -
BEHAR: GenX is how old now?
WHITE: They are anywhere from -- GenY starts about 18 and goes up to about 30 with GenX.
BEHAR: Yes.
WHITE: And they`re smarter about their choices. Waiting longer and they get counseling early so that`s brought the divorce rate down to about 43 percent.
BOWEN: So it`s just that they`re not getting married that much.
WHITE: They are delaying marriage.
SARI LOCKER, SEXUALITY EDUCATOR: Generally you are right. In bad economic times the divorce rate goes down and condom sales go up. People they don`t want to have children and they can`t afford do get divorced.
BEHAR: There`s a statistic that strangers are using condoms a lot more than they used to. Maybe the education is kicking in. I hope so. Now what about the fact that people live together before they get married? Is that a good thing?
WHITE: I`m all for it. I lived with my husband before I got married. I may have tied it at other times as well. He never heard this. This is going to come as a complete surprise, Scott, I`m so sorry to tell you this. It -- as my mother said to me, go ahead, just don`t get married and don`t get pregnant. Don`t do things you can`t undo. You know, go play house and if it doesn`t work, I get out.
LOCKER: Really?
BOWEN: Yes really.
BEHAR: Wow.
BOWEN: What`s wrong with that?
BEHAR: My mother was lighting candles I would keep my legs crossed. What are you kidding me? What kind of mother do you have? It`s unbelievable.
BOWEN: You know, if I was married I would be divorced five times over. Instead I waited. I got married at the ripe old age of 25.
BEHAR: No, she`s lying.
BOWNE: So much older, it`s crazy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What look at the birth rates? They`re also down. What`s going on with that?
WHITE: Well what we`re hearing on an anecdotal basis is women saying, you know what the stigma`s gone, if I don`t have kids I don`t look like selfish you know what -
BEHAR: Cruela Devil -
WHITE: Right and so I`m choosing not to.
LOCKER: You know what I`m hearing from young twenty something`s, I teach graduate students and so I hear quite often that young women are feeling pressured they need to have it all. So they feel they have to get married although, they`re of course delaying marriage until they`re mid- to late 20s. But they feel like they have to have children, they have to have career, and there`s so much pressure that when they get into marriage they want to have it stick. That`s one thing.
BEHAR: But if you decide not to have children don`t you regret it afterwards? You regret it when you get older?
LOCKER: Well you know that`s one of the issue that comes up today for a lot of couples who are in their late 30`s or early 40`s. And they want to get pregnant and they want to have a baby and they end up struggling getting IVF or --
BEHAR: It`s hard.
WHITE: I think there are women who don`t regret it who really think, hey, I don`t want the marriage possibly but don`t necessarily want kids. We keep seeing that more and more. We look at them in their 40s and they don`t regret the choice then.
BEHAR: They do say women who have children are less happy than those who do not.
WHITE: Yes, I saw that.
BOWEN: I have three and I`m so f`ing miserable I want to put a bullet in my brain.
BEHAR: Because why? Because they -
BOWNE: I love my babies.
BEHAR: You love your children but -
BOWEN: It is exhausting. It is exhausting. It is exhausting and I love them and I am lucky and I have a great husband and help and all that stuff.
WHITE: But can I tell you? Once you`re in college you start to get your free time back and it`s delicious. You forgot you have a life of your own.
BEHAR: So it lease like a 20-year sentence.
WHITE: Yes, it`s only 20 years. Just hang in there.
BOWEN: I`m going to be dead by the time that happens.
WHITE: Just have 17 more years.
BEHAR: All right let`s move on. I have some interesting facts. This year women became the majority of the work force for the first time in American history. And of the 15 million new jobs projected for the next decade, the vast majority will be in fields dominated by females. So should we feel bad for the guys, Kate?
WHITE: You know, we just held this man summit at "Cosmo" to look at this, and the sad thing is guys are falling behind. It is great for women, 60 percent of the college graduates are women. But it looks like we`ve been busy paying attention to what happens to girls and men have fallen behind and they`re confused. And sometime as what women see is he`s a slacker, he`s working in his parents` basement working on a screen play and I`m going to law school, the guy is confused and he wishes she understood him better.
BEHAR: So they`re reversing roles because the woman used to stay home and take care of the kids.
WHITE: Right.
BEHAR: So it`s happening anymore.
WHITE: Well it`s not totally role reversal. Because women are taking on the guy stuffs. If you look at their parts in terms of helping out, women still have that second job when they go home.
BOWEN: Yes, of course, that`s the pressure these young women are having, where they`re struggling more than the last generation even ten years ago. There`s something else that happened to young women today. It used to be around the time I was in college we were told anybody over 18, a woman over 18 was a woman. Under 18 was a girl. Then there was this shift. Girls gone wild, girls have to be hot, girls have to be sexy way past 18 people were being called girls. And so women today in their 20s and beyond feel that they have to work, they have to have children, and they have to be hot and a sexy all the time.
BEHAR: What about the fact that women are making more money than men? Do you think they resent it, Julie?
BOWEN: Who resents it? The men?
BEHAR: The men, women are making more money.
BOWEN: You know I don`t know that men resent it. I can`t speak for everybody. I mean in my marriage everything is 50/50. We`re sort of religious about it probably to a fault because I do believe that we`re equal partners in everything including financially which is maybe crazy of me. It probably is crazy of me but it works out.
BEHAR: No that works well. That works out.
BOWEN: No but when you get married later and you`re each bringing your sort of independent experience into the pot, think if you`re 20 years old and you`re starting out, you`ve got to make a community pot.
WHITE: But some guys do have a problem with it. When we ask them, they`re uncomfortable with it, they`ve been raised to be the bread winner thinking that way and it can be awkward.
BEHAR: This is interesting from your summit meeting. The number one thing men would like to change about women today they wish they cared less about paycheck and status and were less materialistic. Gold winners.
WHITE: I think they`re feeling the pressure that women expect so much of them. We want guys to be our soul mates, our bread winners, get manicures and pedicures with us and be our best friend.
BEHAR: Get manicures and pedicures?
WHITE: Yes. The many pedy experience with them and I think guys are feeling pressure to play so many roles.
BEHAR: They have -- we have unrealistic expectations of men for years feeling they should fulfill every side of our life. Right Sari?
LOCKER: Yes and so what I`m hearing is both sides, both men and women today both feel a lot of pressure to confirm to some gender roles that we aren`t even sure what they are anymore. So I think that people need to find a way to enjoy who they are and day to day go through life not worrying whether you`re doing what the daddy`s supposed to do or what the woman is supposed to do.
BEHAR: Yes what about this statistic from a resent sex survey. You probably know a lot about this, Sari, 85 percent of men said their latest sexual partner had an orgasm while only 65 percent of women reported having an orgasm. OK. There`s a gap in reality check here. What`s going on?
LOCKER: Yes in the study first of all is those people were not having sex with each other. But still that hasn`t been --
(CROSSTALK)
LOCKER: That being said, women do fake an orgasm, and I think they`re faking orgasm because they want the sex to seem more exciting than it really is and because they don`t want to do the work that needs to be done and it is kind of more work for a woman to have an orgasm.
WHITE: They don`t want to bruise his ego.
LOCKER: That`s true.
BEHAR: Why do men believe it?
WHITE: They want to believe it they want to please you.
LOCKER: And because they haven`t had sex education, which I also teach them. Guys need it -- the guys need sex education to know the only truly way that she had an orgasm is if he feels her vaginal muscles contracting.
BOWEN: But that`s not truly. It doesn`t mean she`s not having pleasure.
BEHAR: You have three children, that`s nothing.
BOWEN: We all have an individual experience and I`m sure that as the author of such an anatomy, you know there are all sorts of --
LOCKER: It`s not a vaginal orgasm. That`s the work women need to do during sex. Hate to call it work but, hey, you know, it`s hard sometimes the woman needs to stimulate her clitoris during sex.
BEHAR: Oh how many jobs do I need in bed for Christ sake.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s like collecting tolls on the Derby track turn pike after a while.
LOCKER: So let`s make it more fun -
(CROSSTALK)
LOCKER: The men need to know to -- oh, also that that study found that women need more stimulation than just PVI is what we call it.
BEHAR: PVI.
LOCKER: Penile/vaginal intercourse.
BEHAR: Yes.
LOCKER: So that women need a lot more -
BOWEN: Foreplay, foreplay.
BEHAR: How much do you need? Forty days?
(LAUGHTER)
LOCKER: That would be great, wonderful.
BEHAR: No the lion and the jungle has 30 days of foreplay. Now that is my kind animal.
BOWEN: But they have sex 200 time as day.
BEHAR: No I mean not the lion. I made a mistake, it`s the rhino.
LOCKER: Yes.
BEHAR: Not a good-looking animal, but who cares. The lion goes on and on and on and on. The lion does it every five seconds or something.
(CROSSTALK)
BOWEN: I know. Gets up.
BEHAR: The female is like would you get off of me, please. Go back to the savannah.
LOCKER: And that`s the way it is when women want to fake orgasm. She doesn`t want to say, hey, I need the clitoris stimulation.
BEHAR: OK thank you ladies, very interesting. And of course, catch Julie Bowen on ABC`s "MODERN FAMILY" on Wednesday night at 9:00. Up next from coochie coochie to sexy sexy, the one and only Charo is here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK I will, she`s a musician, a singer, and a comedienne. She has us laughing already. Who took the world by storm with her saucy Spanish flair and her catch phrase coochie-coochie. Her new single out November first is called what else, "Sexy Sexy." I`m happy to welcome to the show, the great Charo. Hello Charo.
CHARO, ENTERTINER: Hola.
BEHAR: Hola.
CHARO: Thank you so much for inviting me.
BEHAR: Well you know I remember you on TV, actually a lot. You used to be on Carson on the time and you were on the what, "Love Boat" all the time and I remember you were singing with the band Xavier cougars who you were married to.
CHARO: Well I`m glad you asked me that question.
BEHAR: But how could you sleep with him?
CHARO: You think I`m an idiot? If I had to give with that guy they`d have to give me a -- I cannot.
BEHAR: So you didn`t sleep with him.
CHARO: No. It was business.
BEHAR: Oh.
CHARO: I was -- I met him when my coochie goochy was only a keechy keechy (ph).
BEHAR: Yes, you were very young.
CHARO: My time was young, believe it. And then he saw me performing in Madrid with a symphony when I graduate in the school of Andres Segovia, which is the greatest guitarist in the world.
BEHAR: Right.
CHARO: And we - for seven years, we had no money, just - and my talent.
BEHAR: Well you were a very accomplished guitarist.
CHARO: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHARO: Then I came to America and came to the "TONIGHT SHOW" with Johnny Carson and I didn`t speak English and he said if Johnny Carson like you, he has a big ego, please his ego, he`s very egotistical.
BEHAR: Say that again.
CHARO: He`s egotistical.
BEHAR: He`s egotistical, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
CHARO: Why are you laughing, this is serious. This is the story of my life.
BEHAR: So how did you please him? Or shouldn`t I ask?
CHARO: It`s simple, every time he ask me anything, I will coochie coochie. And then he asked me are you a hooker? Coochie coochie, because I didn`t speak English. But I want to please everything -- the next day coochie coochie, next day my name was Charo, no more guitar. Coochie coochie, but please don`t misconstrue me. Coochie coochie showed me the way to the bank.
BEHAR: That`s right.
CHARO: So thank God for that.
BEHAR: So you gave up your Segovia plan for a while.
CHARO: For a while.
BEHAR: For a while because you really were serious. And then you became the coochie-coochie girl.
CHARO: I cannot show it but I did not speak English now. Look at the difference now.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s excellent, I notice.
CHARO: I have another choice and their choice was if like the coochie coochie, let`s have fun with that. Let`s get rich and one day when I have a voice I will pick up my guitar and that is happening right now.
BEHAR: Well you basically set the tone for a Latin American or Spanish people on television because we didn`t see that much before you and now we have Jennifer Lopez and you`ve got all these wonderful actresses, Sandra Bragga from Brazil and you have Penelope Cruz, right?
CHARO: No but I know I come from Spain. I know I did a revolution when I came. My clothes was very open because my clothes was very open because my sister didn`t know how to make a zipper, how to put zipper in the clothes. Everything was out. Low, low cut and stomach out, they keep it out, low, low skirt and I remember they shoot it -- they said so -- come to me, Johnny Carson and everybody said to me why you shake it back and forth back and forth. Why don`t you -- I said? What? I always shake like this.
BEHAR: And then you got in trouble for that like Elvis Presley got in trouble.
CHARO: All the time we were in trouble but --
BEHAR: How do you stay so young though? You look pretty much the same. The body is still the same. Are those real by the way?
CHARO: The whole thing.
BEHAR: The whole thing.
CHARO: Oh but you know what I do exercises. Rita, mirror on the world makes my maracas 44 all the time.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I don`t think it would work for me. I don`t think that would work for me.
CHARO: No, no I`m serious. But you have humongous.
BEHAR: I have humongous. These are real.
CHARO: I will tell you --
BEHAR: These are real, completely real.
CHARO: There is fresh marks around the lips.
BEHAR: These are real, these are completely real.
CHARO: OK so anyway, when I get to America, I start a style that now it`s in.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHARO: It was Spanglish, it was Sasha.
BEHAR: Spanglish, right.
CHARO: Yes Spanglish -
BEHAR: But you speak Japanese too right.
CHARO: Yes but I sound Chinese.
BEHAR: Say something in Japanese.
CHARO: (SPEAKING CHINESE)
BEHAR: OK very good. But it sounds Spanish.
CHARO: I told you.
BEHAR: Arigato (ph) sounds like Spanish.
CHARO: Spanish has the influence all over the world.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHARO: I speak Rumagi (ph), which means it`s combined -- you read it the same way as they spell it in Rumagi. So it`s easier for me.
BEHAR: I see. Now let`s talk about bullfighting before we go to the break. Because I know you`re against it and so am I. It`s so brutal. I saw it in Spain one time and I was horrified. Why do they still have it? Why don`t they play with the bull with the bull and they can be free.
CHARO: Good question. I want to be serious. You`re a comedienne but -
BEHAR: That`s why we can be funny again another time -
CHARO: I`m going to be serious. I never agreed -- Spain is a great country. They have architecture, fabulous, painter, fantastic, musician, fabulous.
BEHAR: Yes a brilliant history. I studied Spanish. I know all about it.
CHARO: Great so why they got to sacrifice a beautiful animal in order to entertain. They see blood falling out of the eyes, the liver, the kidney is -- the poor animal is suffering. Where a few people keep saying ole. We are in a millennium where we don`t pay to see blood for entertainment. So I have been always against --
BEHAR: Well do you think that the Spanish will stop it?
CHARO: They`re already stopping it, 92 percent are with me. I associate with P.E.T.A. You should meet Don Matthews.
BEHAR: He`s the person.
CHARO: I associate with him. We put the fight together. I wrote to the president, I sent out an international letter in every language explaining how they kill the animal prior to --
BEHAR: OK. You`re on the case, very good. I`m glad you`re doing that. OK more with Charo in just a minute.
CHARO: We`ll be right back.
BEHAR: Stay right there. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARO: Trust you? When? When? When. I trust you when you act the way you do? Hoot chi coot chi.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was one of the funniest skits. That was Charo on the "CAROL BURNETT SHOW" in case you didn`t recognize.
CHARO: I love her.
BEHAR: Yes she`s hilarious.
CHARO: Unbelievable, she`s genius and very, very much upgraded comedienne.
BEHAR: That`s right.
CHARO: As a matter of fact you are an upgraded comedian. I wanted to talk to you for so long. But seriously I am extremely proud that after I had the nomination for the best international disco remakes of the year, as a guitarist, Technoflamingo, this time I am -
BEHAR: Yes, yes, you`re incredible.
CHARO: An incredible Dance mix off a song called "Sexy Sexy," and it`s very techno. Many people like me, at night we`re dancing all over the world in the discotheque and this is a huge hit.
BEHAR: OK well good luck. I hope you sell a lot of these.
CHARO: Thank you for -
BEHAR: We`re helping you -- you should be on my show some night with Arianna Huffington. I could see the two of you.
CHARO: Yes. We have to.
BEHAR: OK you know what? Have you ever heard of twitter? You know what twitter is.
CHARO: Sure.
BEHAR: OK so people have tweeted certain questions they want me to ask you. Is your accent that severe or is it her shtick?
CHARO: Are you kidding me? That`s the best I can do because I come from Spain, I speak Castilian.
BEHAR: Castilian, is it truly the king of Spain has a lisp and --
CHARO: The king of Spain was born with a short tongue according to his wife and that`s why he talked like that and that`s why he make us talk, that son of a gun, talk like this.
BEHAR: OK do you used to live in Hawaii?
CHARO: Yes. I still have a residence in Hawaii but I live in Beverly Hills and Las Vegas.
BEHAR: OK what is your full name. You`re known as Charo. That`s a nickname - tell us your full name.
CHARO: Maria Rosario Vilarma Martina Molina Guiterra Resporalis, Santa, Roma. But short for Charo.
BEHAR: Oh Charo, so you changed - CHARO: No I didn`t change Maria Rosario.
BEHAR: Maria Rosario, that`s your name.
CHARO: And I remember William Morris, the president, Norman Bronko (ph), the agency -- don`t look at me. I`m talking English.
BEHAR: No. I`m trying follow you.
(LAUGHTER)
CHARO: I come to America. This is perfect English. William Morris Agency, the president, Norman Bronko said to me do you want to be called all the names and I say I always been called Maria Rosario, Rosa is Charo. That`s my name that`s why I make it short and that`s why I started the style of everybody short name now.
BEHAR: OK now I understand you have a grown son.
CHARO: Yes.
BEHAR: Is he a musician or is he a coochie-coochie.
CHARO: Oh yes.
BEHAR: He`s gorgeous.
CHARO: He`s a big -
BEHAR: Let me see oh, he is gorgeous.
CHARO: He`s gorgeous.
BEHAR: He`s almost se llama.
CHARO: Se Illama chel. And the priest said to me - I don`t want to call him Chel, this is not a catholic name unless it`s Chel Joseph. But he`s in a movie. He write as script. He loves you.
BEHAR: I love him too.
CHARO: If he has a movie, will you please invite him?
BEHAR: He`s adorable. Who`s the father?
CHARO: The father is the guy that I married another guy with money. This one I used to live with.
BEHAR: OK I`m sure you do. OK. Thank you, Charo.
CHARO: Thank you.
BEHAR: For coming on the show. Her new single "Sexy, Sexy." good night, everybody. Buenos noches.
END
