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Joy Behar Page
Chile Miners: Terror Underground; Gay Couple Booted from Mall; Anti- Gay Acts on the Rise?
Aired October 19, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Christine O`Donnell doesn`t know what`s protected by the First Amendment, Joe Miller thinks the minimum wage is unconstitutional and Sharron Angle can`t tell Asians from Latinos. You know, I miss the intellectual giants of yesteryear like Dan Quayle; give me a man who can sort of spell potato.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, just days after their rescue some of the Chilean miners break their unity pact sharing horrendous details about life underground. What exactly went on down there and why are some miners speaking out while others stay silent?
Then Mel Gibson scores a cameo in "The Hangover 2". Is this the beginning of the Mel makeover tour?
Plus the lovely Olivia Newton John talks about her guest spot on "Glee" and how she would cast a "Grease" remake.
That and more starting now.
BEHAR: Turns out being trapped in a mine for 69 days is not all fun and games. Who knew?
New details of what the 33 Chilean miners actually went through while underground are coming out as some of the survivors are selling their stories to the media.
With me to discuss the truth as to what went on down there are Norman Ollestad, author of "Crazy for the Storm", a memoir that describes how he survived a plane crash when he was just 11 years old; Nando Parrado, the author of "Miracle in the Andes". Nando was one of the 16 survivors who spent two months trapped in the Andes Mountains after their plane crashed in 1972. We all remember that story.
And also CNN`s Gary Tuchman. Ok. Gary, let me start with you. Some miners are selling their stories. Some are remaining silent. What happened to the unity pact they had?
GARY TUCHMAN, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Right. They definitely had a pact but the first thing we thought when we were there was that things will change if and when, hopefully, they will be rescued but if and when they`re rescued things will change when they get back to their families, when they get back to the reality. And that`s what happened. This unity pact doesn`t seem so unified anymore.
BEHAR: I know. It`s unfortunate. Wouldn`t it be practical for them to stick together and get more money as a group? I would think it might be.
TUCHMAN: It makes perfect sense. But like I said, once they got out of there after all that terror being down there for almost ten weeks, things will change. And they have changed.
BEHAR: I see that. Ok. So tell us some of the details about life underground in the 17 days before they were discovered. What do you know?
TUCHMAN: I mean that`s the amazing thing about this story, Joy, that people keep forgetting about that. For 17 days we didn`t know if they were alive and they didn`t know if they`d ever be rescued. We were being told by some of the miners that they were terrified, they argued, they screamed, they cried. But rumors that they discussed things like cannibalism -- that did not happen.
BEHAR: Did not.
TUCHMAN: No. That did not happen. And rumors that there were fist fights did not happen. But they were certainly terrified and they certainly argued and there were certainly problems but after August 22nd, when the world knew they were alive, things changed dramatically for them.
BEHAR: What about the gay thing that -- there were rumors about that. That`s been dispelled also, correct?
TUCHMAN: Yes -- no. If that`s true, none of the miners are saying that`s true. They all say those are rumors, that there was nothing like that whatsoever.
BEHAR: Ok. Now Nando, as you just heard for 17 days these miners didn`t know if help could get to them. You were trapped in the Andes Mountains for two months with others. Tell me, I mean, that was quite a story. What happens in those initial stages? Are there leaders? Are there followers? How frightened are you? Tell me about that a little bit.
NANDO PARRADO, AUTHOR, "MIRACLE IN THE ANDES": With all due respect to the miners, Joy -- I`m a television producer. I produce five TV shows every week. This is the best -- this was the best script in the world.
We survived 72 days, two and a half months without knowing if we were going to live. We didn`t have food. We didn`t have clothes. We were at 13,000 feet. The youngest guy was 17. The average age was 19.
We had to rescue ourselves. I had to track ten and a half days, after that 60 miles. I lost 90 pounds. And we were rescued.
They were rescued. They were like in a five star hotel, playing cards, you know. Playing dominos, they had food. They had pizzas. You know? Give me a break with this story. And I can tell you that we were really trapped.
BEHAR: Nando, I hear what you`re saying but it`s kind of like comparing holocausts. You know what I mean? Yours was bad. Theirs was bad. But yours sounded --
PARRADO: Yes, I know it was bad. They had the media. They didn`t lose anybody. I lost 29 of my friends. I lost my mother, my sister.
BEHAR: Yes.
PARRADO: We buried them with our hands in the ice. They didn`t have to cope with that. Saying that -- it was a fantastic survival story.
BEHAR: It was.
PARRADO: But don`t compare.
BEHAR: But you know, I really was thinking about the first 17 days, which you obviously you had a much longer stretch, where you really didn`t know if you were going to live or die and things started to get really, really scary. So in that way you were similar because of the fear factor, no one is going to help us. No one is going to find us.
PARRADO: Yes. They suffered that for 17 days. We suffered it for 72. The agony is prolonged by hope. You know? If you have hope, the only thing is that that prolongs the agony. We had agony for 72 days, mental and physical. And they had it for 17, which is the worst part. I agree. The 17 days was horrible.
BEHAR: Yes.
PARRADO: They didn`t know what was going on. That`s the worst part.
BEHAR: That`s the part I`m talking about. That`s the worst part I was really referring to because your ordeal was even much, much worse. I agree with that.
Now, Norman, you were with just one other person. You were 11 years old. She was an adult and you took the lead. We`re looking at footage of you from CBS in the aftermath of your ordeal. You were just with one other person. Tell me about that. What happened there?
NORMAN OLLESTAD, AUTHOR, "CRAZY FOR THE STORM": Well, there was four of us in the plane and my father and the pilot were killed and my dad`s girlfriend was alive like myself. And for the first few hours we -- we figured out where -- what was going on, sort of, because we were buried in a storm and we didn`t really know where we were and we took shelter under one of the wings of the plane.
And that`s when our two personalities went different directions. She was very emotional, very hysterical, very distracted, and unfocused. And for whatever reason I became very calm and focused on, you know, what practical things do I need to do to survive? It was pretty simple.
BEHAR: That is a very interesting story. You were quite advanced. You were only 11 years old. That`s really -- and what kept you going? Were you a religious person?
OLLESTAD: No. What kept me going was I guess, I mean it`s sort of just wanting to live and really it was the things I did with my father. He sort of instilled a passionate nature in me and so I was full of that and I had a well of confidence.
I knew I could live. I knew I could conquer this mountain. I never really doubted it. I had moments on the way down when Sondra slipped and was killed and I had to cover her body and keep going on but I always knew I could do it.
BEHAR: Nando, you know, humans have an amazing capacity to do anything to survive as we`ve seen and in your book you talk about cannibalism. You know, now these miners joked about doing that. I mean, I guess they thought it was just funny to talk about it.
Of course as you pointed out they were not there so long that they had to resort to something like that. How terrible an ordeal was that part?
PARRADO: I think that when you have options, you have options. When you have two options you can take one of each. When you have only one option, there is only one to take. And obviously nobody thinks -- nobody can think or put themselves in the mindset that we were there or like the miners were when they were trapped the first 17 days.
We didn`t have food. We didn`t have water. We didn`t have winter gear. And we were abandoned to die. So your mind goes to another level, which cannot be compared to a level of somebody watching this TV show eating a sandwich in their home.
You know?
BEHAR: Of course.
PARRADO: Then you go to different limits. And you want to live. You know, the survival instinct is amazing. You know? It`s absolutely amazing. And I just wish nobody has to go through something like this to understand it.
BEHAR: I know. And you lost 90 pounds. I mean, that must have been just a terrible time.
But, you know, you were criticized. I remember this very clearly. The church, the Catholic Church I believe gave you a very hard time for that. How did you, you know, how did you deal with that part?
PARRADO: No. The Catholic Church said, you did the right thing. You have to protect life. You know? We were so advanced I think --
BEHAR: I thought they gave you trouble. Maybe they didn`t. I was mistaken.
PARRADO: No, no, they didn`t. The Pope gave us, you know, their -- sent us his regards and blessing.
BEHAR: I see.
PARRADO: But when you`re trapped, you have to think on a different way. You know? And nowadays people do the same things. How many people donate blood? How many people would donate part of their skin? One of my friends donated his skin to his daughter who was burned with oil in the kitchen. How many people would do that for their daughter? Everybody.
BEHAR: As you say, everybody. When you`re confronted with such horrible things, you rise to the occasion very often.
Thank you so much, all of you, for sharing with me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: There`s been a string of anti-gay incidents in this country in recent weeks and in yet another, a lesbian couple was thrown out of a Raleigh, North Carolina mall for being affectionate. Caitlin Breedlove says the security guard told her and her partner to leave after they shared a hug and a kiss on the cheek.
Here now on her first national interview is Caitlin Breedlove. Caitlin can you tell me -- hi, first of all.
CAITLIN BREEDLOVE, EJECTED FROM NORTH CAROLINA MALL FOR KISSING GIRLFRIEND: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Can you tell me what happened that day?
BREEDLOVE: Absolutely.
So it`s like a lot of incidents that happen to people of color, immigrants, and gay people. We are being ourselves and we were asked to leave. We`re sitting on a bench, like you said, peck on the cheek. Security officer said, "You need to go." And we said, would it be the same if we were man and a woman? She said, no. She called her supervisor and the supervisor agreed we had to leave. So as you can imagine we didn`t like that very much at all, Joy.
BEHAR: I can just imagine. So it was a female security guard? I didn`t realize that.
BREEDLOVE: Yes. The first one was and then the supervisor was a man.
BEHAR: Maybe she wanted you to kiss her. You ever think of that?
BREEDLOVE: Well, you know. I don`t know. But we definitely -- we definitely didn`t think we were doing anything different or inappropriate than anyone else. And she also told us, it`s private property. And we thought, well, you know, most of this country is private property. And we still have a right to common decency and to treat each other well in public spaces, you know, no matter what.
So that`s why we thought that we`d fight it, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok, now just to be fair, York Properties who manages the mall has since apologized and they promised sensitivity training for security personnel. Was this an isolated incident or a larger culture of homophobia to blame do you think? I mean, because we keep hearing about a lot of these things happening these days.
BREEDLOVE: Well, you know, I think bullying is more than one bad apple, Joy. And I think that it is a larger culture of homophobia and racism and xenophobia. We see a lot of different kinds of things happening but, you know, the real amazing part of the story, Joy, is about the people who made that victory happen that you just talked about, that York Properties gave us everything we wanted.
Then they told us that their business was greatly affected in many departments by this and it was just literally thousands of e-mails and phone calls that people made that when we went in there they just said yes, we`re going to give you what you want. And we think it`s really important to tell that part of the story because that`s the part that`s about people making change when we come together.
BEHAR: Oh.
BREEDLOVE: And we can`t be deterred by a climate of hate. You know? That`s what we think, Joy.
BEHAR: That`s -- well, that`s -- that`s an interesting thing, you know, the thing that happened there. But, you know, now the truth of it is that you happen to be a gay activist. Am I right? And you work for a social justice group.
(CROSSTALK)
BREEDLOVE: That`s right.
BEHAR: So some people are saying that this was a stunt. What do you say to that?
BREEDLOVE: Well, you know, at first they were saying that and then when York came out and pretty much said, it pretty happened the way we said and, you know, that my girlfriend and I said and we`re really sorry. And the people in the restaurant confirmed, you know, how disturbed we were when it happened. People let that go.
But mostly what I say, Joy, is sadly we live in a country where we don`t have to pull a stunt, you know, to show homophobia. It happens too often unfortunately.
So I`ve just tried to -- it`s so ridiculous a claim I`ve just tried to kind of not be too deterred by that and let it stop me from getting at the real issues that`s important. You know?
BEHAR: Well, what`s -- what`s your advice to me? Should I stop kissing women on "The View" now? Because we`re always kissing -- we`re always kissing on "The View".
BREEDLOVE: I say, keep going with it, Joy. Kiss as many women on "The View" as you want.
BEHAR: Ok. All right, thanks very much, Caitlin. And good luck to you.
BREEDLOVE: Yes. Thanks for having me, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok.
Joining me now with his take on the incident is singer and Raleigh native Clay Aiken. Hey, Clay, how are you?
CLAY AIKEN, SINGER: Hello. I`m good. How are you?
BEHAR: Good. Nice to see you. Now, you`re from the area in Raleigh.
AIKEN: I am, yes.
BEHAR: You are from Raleigh. In fact, so are you there right now?
AIKEN: I am.
BEHAR: You are.
So are you surprised to hear this, that this happened in Raleigh or is this de rigueur in Raleigh?
AIKEN: You know, well, it`s definitely not that -- it is a -- it was a little bit surprising especially the area that -- that it happened in, you know, it`s a more progressive area. Raleigh I think people get -- people paint the south sometimes with a broad stroke which I don`t think is necessarily fair. And this area is relatively progressive.
It always has been especially relative to some other places in the south. So I think -- I think the reason it made news here was the fact that it was a little bit surprising.
BEHAR: Right.
AIKEN: And especially in the place that it was.
BEHAR: Now, there seems to be a recent uptick as they say in anti-gay incidents in this country. Why do you think that`s happening now?
AIKEN: You know what? I don`t know if it`s because that it`s happened more or there`s just been more attention paid to it. And I think -- I think if there -- if it is that the more attention has been paid to it I think that`s great. I think I`m bringing awareness to the fact that, you know, individuals have been bullied for being gay or being lesbian for -- for decades, for years.
And -- and now we`re seeing it a little bit more in the news. I think it`s made people stop and think a little bit about their behavior and about the words that they choose and the words that they say.
I don`t know that necessarily there`s been more bullying or uptick in -- in anti-gay behavior as much as it`s just -- it`s just been made -- we`ve been made more aware of it.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I just found out that the Pentagon is telling recruiters around the country that they can now, you know, accept openly gay candidates for the military because of the --
AIKEN: I know. I heard.
BEHAR: -- the ruling that came down. Of course it`s going to be appealed. What do you -- isn`t that something, that the Pentagon is behind this now?
AIKEN: I think -- well, I think, it`s incredible. I think that, I think that fortunately, I believe that the Pentagon obviously Secretary Gates and the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs are both very -- have been very outspoken in their belief that the -- "don`t ask, don`t tell" should be repealed.
And I think that that is probably leading them to follow the department, you know, follow the ruling of the federal courts in the way that it was handed down. I think that the thing that we need to hope for is the fact that if for some reason this ruling gets overturned, it gets stayed, that those openly gay recruits are not then put out again. And so I think that people must -- need to be obviously very deliberate in the decisions they make because as we`ve seen time and time again you can`t necessarily trust that -- trust that the folks in Washington are going to do the right thing.
BEHAR: That`s true. Let`s talk about the word "gay" for a second. Because there`s a whole thing this -- this week that I was hearing about with Vince Vaughn who has this movie called "The Dilemma". And in the trailer, he refers to electric cars as gay. It`s a joke. And he`s a comedian and it`s a joke and it`s supposed to be a funny movie.
And Anderson Cooper is kind of -- has basically said don`t -- don`t use the word that way. It`s -- it`s a pejorative -- it`s in a pejorative sense and it`s not good. And he objected to that. He says that humor brings us together, et cetera.
What is your take on the word "gay?" are we supposed to not use it in that way? He said, "The electric car is gay." Not in a homosexual way but, you know, in some other lame, a lame way. Yes.
AIKEN: You know, I think there is a fine line between -- obviously I can see both sides of the issue but I would say we probably wouldn`t use -- we probably wouldn`t say that an electric car is black and think it was funny or say that an electric car was Jewish and think it was funny.
It has -- using the term "gay" as a negative word has become a little bit of a popular thing to do. As a gay man I can see why that is -- it becomes sensitive to people.
BEHAR: Right. Because it`s negatively used.
AIKEN: Especially if you are a teenager if it`s negative.
BEHAR: I want to talk some more about this with you when we come back in a minute. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Clay Aiken.
You know, let me just go back to what we`re talking about, the use of the word "gay" again. Vince Vaughn used it in the trailer. Now GLAAD is saying that they should pull the word from the movie, itself. So what do you think about that? Toying with the script of the movie?
AIKEN: You know, I think there is an argument to be made for the fact that something is used in an artistic way. I haven`t seen the movie so I don`t know what the character is and if the character is supposed to have some form of homophobia maybe it works.
BEHAR: That`s right.
AIKEN: We obviously don`t take out other negative terms when it works for the character. If it`s just used benignly to signify something being lame, it may not be the best choice but, you know, we obviously have to allow other people to do, to speak freely, so that we can do it. If you want rights for yourself you got to give other people rights for themselves, too.
BEHAR: That`s true. Like on "Mad Men" people object to their smoking; well, in the `60s everyone smoked. So you can`t, you know, say, well, they can`t smoke. So if the character is a jerk and uses a gay in a pejorative way well then he is a jerk and that`s the character. I agree with that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I think you`re right.
One more thing. Just this week a Texas dad was told he could no longer serve as leader in his son`s cub scout pack because he is gay. Is there any wonder that gay bullying is such an issue at schools when the Boy Scouts is pulling a gay father who is donating his time?
AIKEN: You know, I was not a Boy Scout at all but I, you know, it`s amazing there are still isolated incidents. New York City just saw a horrific attack.
BEHAR: Right.
AIKEN: -- against some young men who were gay and were beaten and sodomized. There are places all over the country that need to focus on -- that have their own problems.
BEHAR: Yes.
AIKEN: And I think that sometimes places like Texas and North Carolina and South Carolina get singled out because they are more traditionally conservative. But places all over the country do need to focus on it. Nine out of ten kids in school, 9 out of 10 gay/lesbian transgender children in school report being bullied every year. So -- and half of those, it`s a physical -- report being physically harassed.
It`s an epidemic and it`s an issue all around the country and people need to make sure that we`re paying attention to focusing on it at a young age and making sure that kids in schools, high schools, middle schools, are in a safe environment and make sure that kids in high schools and middle schools understand to accept their peers. And I think that begins to -- will trickle up if you will, as these people, as these children grow older they`ll be more accepting.
BEHAR: My God, in New York City, just this past week, I think, or two weeks ago, is when another incident -- besides the one in the Bronx where you`re talking about the sodomizing, these kids came into a gay bar down in the village in Greenwich Village. Julius says he`s been there for so many years and Stonewall Bar. My God. Those are safe havens for gay people. And they were beaten up and harassed there.
So I mean it`s not even safe in your own neighborhood in Greenwich Village? My God. What is this world coming to?
AIKEN: There is definitely an air of ignorance and I think probably fear that comes with that from people. As these things get into the news more often as we, unfortunately, talk about these teens committing suicide or we talk about gay rights becoming more common in the public arena, I think it probably scares people who are ignorant and are not aware of --
BEHAR: Right.
AIKEN: -- of homosexuality and the fact that we are all equal folks and deserve the same rights.
BEHAR: Ok. It`s always lovely to see you, Clay.
AIKEN: You, too.
BEHAR: "Tried and True" tour -- his "Tried and True" tour kicks off in February. Go to clayaiken.com for tickets and tour dates.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Mel Gibson joins the cast of "The Hangover 2," but will a comedy help Mel`s career come back?
And Olivia Newton John drops by to talk about "Grease" and her guest spot on "Glee." Now back to Joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Teen star and heartthrob, Justin Bieber, has hits all over the world. But according to a complaint in Canada, he actually hit a 12-year- old during a game of laser tag. Some reports say the kid used a gay slur against Bieber, but others say that`s not true.
Here now to discuss this and other stories making news today are Nancy Giles, social commentator and contributor to "CBS Sunday Morning," one of my favorite shows, Ben Widdicombe, celebrity journalist, and Eve Plumb, the actress who played Jan Brady on "The Brady Bunch." How do you do? Nice to see you, Eve.
EVE PLUMB, ACTRESS: Thank you very much. Lovely to be here.
BEHAR: Lovely to se you. OK. So, the father of the kid who Bieber allegedly punched has filed a report, an official complaint against Bieber.
NANCY GILES, SOCIAL COMMENTATOR: Seeing Bieber just by itself --
(LAUGHING)
BEHAR: Leave it to the Bieber.
GILES: Right. So, this kid that supposedly threw out the slur, is he a friend of the Bieber`s or what?
BEHAR: No, I don`t think so.
GILES: He was a stranger?
BEHAR: I think they were just there.
GILES: So, the Bieber goes out and plays laser tag with just anybody with the public?
BEHAR: Yes. Something like that.
GILES: I -- I --.
BEHAR: Maybe he can`t be out in public.
GILES: That`s what I was thinking. It must be part of his little positive.
BEN WIDDICOMBE, CELEBRITY JOURNALIST: Doesn`t he have an entourage to play tag?
BEHAR: I guess not. You know, maybe we don`t understand the Bieber.
PLUMB: I don`t know, but when do we start teaching the kids to be adults? Do you know? To how to behave in public? And since we don`t actually know what happened, how will this ever get resolved, because it`s a he said/he said situation.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true. We don`t even know if there was a gay slur involved here.
PLUMB: Right.
BEHAR: But the good point of this, the Bieber, he is going to take this up now and talk about gay bullying. So, it`s actually working.
GILES: That is nice. That`s good.
BEHAR: Because the Bieber is very influential.
WIDDICOMBE: Right. Bieber fever.
BEHAR: I mean, he`s up there with Sarah Palin.
GILES: So wild. You know, just from these YouTube things, he soared right to the top. It`s hard to grasp.
WIDDICOMBE: He`s the Oprah of the 16-year-old set.
BEHAR: But why is he so popular while just off the top for a second?
PLUMB: I think he`s the new Donny Osmond.
GILES: Or Michael Jackson. Used to have those fights in school.
PLUMB: Every generation has its young, unthreatening teen heartthrob.
BEHAR: That`s the thing. Unthreatening.
(CROSSTALK)
WIDDICOMBE: Can you name one of his songs?
GILES: No.
PLUMB: No, we don`t know. The Bieber Rocks. I don`t know, but what are they?
BEHAR: I`m still working on "Fly Me to the Moon" by Frank Sinatra. But you know, when I was a kid and there were like Elvis was around, and he was much too sexual. I was like frightened of him, you know? And so we loved James Dean because he looked like he wouldn`t rape you or molest you whereas Elvis you`re not sure.
GILES: You can be sure with the Bieber.
PLUMB: The Bieber, you`re going to be sure. He`s totally harmless. And it`s a beautiful thing. So, I think that he will put a out a positive image and that`s a good thing for this.
GILES: If he does that, then that makes some good come out of it. If he gets out -- because he has a huge audience, and if he says that gay bullying is no good then --
WIDDICOMBE: And the kids use these words very carelessly. You know, they drop the "F" word.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s not fair to use a mean word against a kid like that. OK. Now, speaking of mean, Mel Gibson is reportedly joining the cast of "The Hangover 2." He said to be playing a tattoo artist in Bangkok, Thailand. I wonder if he knows how to rant in Thai. Do you think? Is this going to be a comeback for him, Nancy?
GILES: I -- well, I`m stunned about him doing "The Hangover 2." I didn`t realize there was a "Hangover 1."
BEHAR: Oh, yes. It was a big movie.
GILES: I`m kind of out of it. But his behavior off the set has been so kind of appalling. Have you noticed he doesn`t even look like the handsome guy he used to? He`s actually looking more and more like the portrait of Dorian Gray getting more warped looking and horrible looking.
BEHAR: Yes.
GILES: I also don`t understand why Jody Foster says he`s the most, what is it?
BEHAR: The most loved man in the film business?
GILES: I guess among the misogynist, and you know, abusers, you know, I don`t know who else.
BEHAR: Wow.
PLUMB: We`re not sure of the either of those.
GILES: Yes. That`s what I don`t get. That`s what I don`t get
BEHAR: Remember, the guy, racist things he said, abuse to women remarks and maybe allegedly hit her and also anti-Semitic remarks. So, how could he be the most loved guy in Hollywood with those three things against him?
GILES: Or what does that say about Hollywood?
BEHAR: Well, that`s my question. What does it say about Hollywood, Ben?
WIDDICOMBE: Well, he thinks he can get away with it. He had an anti- gay moment in the 1990s, then he had that terrible racist rant when he was pulled over in Malibu, and both times, he managed to bounce back. His films still make money. So, I think he thinks he can get away with it.
BEHAR: Well, maybe Hollywood is that sick and greedy that they say, well, he can make money for us so let`s bring him in. Do you think so? And what is wrong with Jody Foster? I don`t understand Jody Foster in this particular instance. OK. She`s friends with him.
GILES: They did Maverick together.
BEHAR: OK. Fine. So, she finds him lovable, but to say, he`s the most lovable, no he`s not.
GILES: No. The only thing I could figure that Jody might have a little sensitivity about is her private life, the John Hinckley stuff, her own personal life, and maybe the separation between a public person and their private life, you know, maybe that separation of public and personhood. I don`t know.
PLUMB: He`s only a mean drunk in public.
(LAUGHING)
PLUMB: Once you get him over to dinner, he`s lovely. Funny stories.
GILES: I can`t figure it out.
PLUMB: I can`t figure it either.
BEHAR: But I love totalitarian dictators for example.
GILES: Very sexy guys.
BEHAR: You know, they love their dogs and they`re very nice --
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: Hitler was a --
BEHAR: He was. That`s true. And he loved his dog, Blondie.
WIDDICOMBE: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, Christine O`Donnell. You know who she is, right? She is running for the Senate in Delaware, OK? Now, she was making news because she basically did not understand in a recent debate she was having that the separation of church and state is in the first amendment, OK? Listen. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where in the constitution is separation of church and state?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It`s in, you know, an excellent point.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold on. Hold on. Please. Please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Now, this guy Coons is really very, very bright, and he knows a lot about the constitution. He can recite the whole thing apparently. If she wants to run for the Senate, I mean, come on. How dumb do we have to be in this country to vote for someone like this?
WIDDICOMBE: Do not think that ignorance is about a high office in this country. I hate to say it. There have been some real numb skulls elected.
BEHAR: Wait a second. Where are you from?
WIDDICOMBE: I`m Australian, and I know what the first amendment says, and I`m an Aussie.
BEHAR: I know, buy they`re so brilliant in Australia.
WIDDICOMBE: (INAUDIBLE) with Bush.
BEHAR: Well, but you`ve had others, believe me. You were not nice to the aborigines in Australia. I`m on to the Australians. I mean, I like the Aussies, but come on, they`re not perfect, but neither were we. See how defensive you get when you`re an American? See, I can say what I want.
GILES: Right.
BEHAR: But you can`t
WIDDICOMBE: Are you going to walk off?
BEHAR: No. I can`t.
(CROSSTALK)
GILES: You went for talking about how dumb Christine O`Donnell, potentially, to beat you. I`m an American. I have to agree with them now. There seems to be a lot of stock these days in dumb politicians and dumb women politicians. It hurts my feelings. You know? That`s embarrassing, though, Joy.
BEHAR: I mean, this guy Paladino. Come on.
GILES: Oh, he`s out of his mind.
BEHAR: I mean, he`s not just win (ph). What are you going to say?
PLUMB: I was going to say that perhaps we need a civics test before one runs for higher office. To make sure that they understand the rules of the game.
BEHAR: Well, here`s the response from her campaign, OK? Christine O`Donnell was not questioning the concept of separation of state and church as subsequently established by the court. She simply made the point that phrase appears nowhere in the constitution. Do you buy it, Ben?
WIDDICOMBE: No.
BEHAR: Why not?
WIDDICOMBE: No. I think she needs to go back to school.
GILES: No. Because here`s what you say if you want to know the phrase, you say, where was the phrase -- she never said that.
BEHAR: No.
GILES: Where exactly is -- no. She just blathered on.
BEHAR: She has no idea. Here`s a fun fact, Delaware was the first state to ratify the constitution.
(LAUGHING)
BEHAR: OK. Before we go --
PLUMB: She wouldn`t know that one either probably.
BEHAR: We have another story here. Here`s the story of a lovely lady. OK. She was kissing her co-star from her past, OK? You know who I`m talking about. You know, Eve.
PLUMB: Yes.
BEHAR: Barry Williams who played Greg Brady dropped by "Dancing with the Stars" for a little visit with his TV mom. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was great seeing my old friend, Barry, and having all that attention from my two favorite men. Those eyes. Still got those eyes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I got them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, yes. You go, Dana.
(LAUGHING)
BEHAR: Now, she is 77. Bless her heart. She looks fantastic.
WIDDICOMBE: She does.
BEHAR: But what do you think, Eve?
PLUMB: Well, you know, they`re both grown-ups now. So, it`s not icky anymore.
BEHAR: No. Was it icky then?
(LAUGHING)
(CROSSTALK)
PLUMB: No, you know what, he had a crush on her and so she was very nice. I think they went out to dinner together, you know, but that was it. That was it.
BEHAR: No heavy petting above the waist? Nothing?
PLUMB: You know what, I was not there. So, I do not know. I do know about just separation of church and state though.
(LAUGHING)
BEHAR: Hey. There were rumors about the two of them, I must say. Maybe that`s why it was just so fun.
PLUMB: But, you know, I think that they both liked to play at it because everyone has continued to make something of it. So --
BEHAR: Bur, she was one of the first cougars in that sense.
PLUMB: In that sense.
BEHAR: I think she looks fantastic.
(CROSSTALK)
PLUMB: She does know how to dance. She is doing a great job. Even though you`re a celebrity on that show, you do have to work very hard.
BEHAR: That`s true.
PLUMB: And she`s done a great job. And I`m very excited to see her go on.
BEHAR: Nancy, what do you think about Bristol Palin on that show?
GILES: Can I just comment and be rolling my eyes and heavy exhaling? I just am just so tired of her. I`m tired of her getting these breaks. I`m tired of her making money and leaving her baby at home. I`m tired of her maybe getting 30 grand to speak about abstinence. Excuse me? I`m tired of her.
BEHAR: Why can`t she, you know, dance and leave the baby at home for a little while? Women have to be able to dance and go to work.
GILES: Joy, I do believe that, but she makes me ill. She did that to all bets are off.
PLUMB: Nobody ever worries about a man leaving a baby at home.
BEHAR: That`s true.
PLUMB: I know not fair.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They make such a big deal over this and then they do the right thing and it`s annoying.
GILES: Right.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you very much.
GILES: Thank you.
BEHAR: And catch (INAUDIBLE) Ms. Abigail`s guide to dating and marriage. Go to msabigailguide.com for information. Olivia Newton John, the lovely woman joins me next. She`s adorable.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: She was hopelessly devoted to John Travolta in "Grease" and got physical on MTV in the early 1980s. Now, 18-year breast cancer survivor, Olivia Newton-John is teaching women about the importance of early detection. She`s also releasing a new CD, "Grace and Gratitude Renewed." I`m happy to welcome back to my show the lovely, Olivia Newton- John.
OLIVIA NEWTON-JOHN, SINGER: Thank you.
BEHAR: I just get a kick out of seeing the two of you looking so cute and fun and we love that movie.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: And in the movie, in "Grease" you played a good girl who turned bad.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: We loved that. I mean --
NEWTON-JOHN: I loved that. That was fun.
BEHAR: You know, we still think men prefer, I mean, Angelina Jolie got Brad Pitt, just saying, and she was the bad girl at the time. Now, she`s the good girl again.
NEWTON-JOHN: Right. I think men probably like a little bit of both.
BEHAR: They like a little bit of both.
NEWTON-JOHN: I think so.
BEHAR: Well, she has multiple qualities, because on the one hand, she`s got the tattoos. She kissed her brother. And, you know, remember that? Remember she kissed her brother on the lips.
NEWTON-JOHN: She`s so beautiful.
BEHAR: But then she adopts the kids and everything and she`s a good girl.
NEWTON-JOHN: Big heart.
BEHAR: She has a big heart. If they were going to make a new version of "Grease" --
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes?
BEHAR: Who would play Sandy and Danny besides Betty White and say Wolf Blitzer? I mean, who would do it these days?
NEWTON-JOHN: Someone said to me they were going to make it now with Justin Bieber, this young boy.
BEHAR: Justin Bieber, yes.
NEWTON-JOHN: Bieber, sorry. I don`t know. I always think my daughter would be the best because she knows me the best and she could probably take me off, but I really don`t know, really. I think there are so many talented, gorgeous people.
BEHAR: Wait a second. Justin Bieber as John Travolta?
NEWTON-JOHN: Someone said to me the other day.
BEHAR: He`s too nice. He`s too cute.
NEWTON-JOHN: He`s young.
BEHAR: Travolta had a dangerous quality to him.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes, gorgeous. Yes.
BEHAR: No. I don`t see that. Johnny Depp maybe.
NEWTON-JOHN: Johnny Depp, yes.
BEHAR: Does he sing? I don`t know.
NEWTON-JOHN: I don`t know. I think they go younger if they`re going to do it.
BEHAR: Yes, maybe. You know, people love today, I love to talk about "Grease" such a terrific movie. But they love it today as much as they loved it 30 years ago.
NEWTON-JOHN: It`s unbelievable isn`t it? I mean, they just brought out a sing along version with the bouncing ball. It, I think, was out for a short time and they`re going to bring it out again later. I think it`s just an amazing phenomena. The film keeps going.
BEHAR: But do you think that it sort of set the tone for shows like "Glee" and all other shows that we`re seeing now?
NEWTON-JOHN: I think people love musicals, and they love things about school because it`s nostalgia. And I think you can see someone that you know is a prototype of someone that you know in the school and, I don`t know. It`s a happy movie and people love that.
BEHAR: Yes. People that are in there, they`re talking about their grades and then they burst into song. What`s better than that?
NEWTON-JOHN: Exactly.
BEHAR: And you actually do a guest starring appearance on the episode of "Glee." Let`s take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING) Let`s get physical, physical. I want to get physical. Let`s get into physical. Let me hear your body talk, your body talk. Let me hear your body talk.
BEHAR: That was fun.
NEWTON-JOHN: That was so fun. I did two episodes and I got to play myself but a different version of myself but I got to play a beep (ph). It was really fun.
BEHAR: You played a bitch. Just say bitch. Say it. Say it out loud.
(LAUGHING)
BEHAR: Remember, you became a bad girl, remember?
NEWTON-JOHN: That`s right.
BEHAR: Hold on to that woman.
NEWTON-JOHN: I am. I`m leaning it again, and it was really fun.
BEHAR: She`s great.
NEWTON-JOHN: We did the set exactly the same as the video. It was really good fun.
BEHAR: Are you going to do some more acting now?
NEWTON-JOHN: I just did a movie called "Score" which is a musical about hockey, ice hockey.
BEHAR: Really?
NEWTON-JOHN: That`s funny too. The idea was funny and it turned out to be a really cute film.
BEHAR: A lot of dedicated songs to the puck?
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, you have this new CD out.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: Which is for relaxation and meditation.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes. It`s called "Grace and Gratitude Renewed" and it`s a healing CD. It kind of goes with all the things I`m doing in my life with breast cancer and my husband`s company, Amazon Herbal, about healing and my retreat about healing and now the musical. So, it kind of brings it together. And it`s an hour of music. Each track has instrumental between it. So, it doesn`t just stop, and it`s very peaceful and relaxing and positive lyrics and reinforcing good, positive thinking.
BEHAR: That`s nice. I feel relaxed already just talking about it. Now, October Is Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: And you are an 18-year survivor. You found a lump in your breast 18 years ago.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes, I did. I call myself a thriver actually.
BEHAR: You found it through a self-exam, right?
NEWTON-JOHN: I did. And that`s why I`m so gung ho (ph) about encouraging women to do regular breast self-exam, because I found the lump. I went to the doctor. He sent me for mammogram, and it didn`t show in the mammogram. And I found out since about a third of lumps do not show in mammograms. So, you to be aware yourself. And then I did needle biopsy. It didn`t show on that either.
BEHAR: Really?
NEWTON-JOHN: And we did a surgical biopsy, because I didn`t feel right. So, I tell women to trust their instincts. I`m sure you advocate that also.
BEHAR: Sure.
NEWTON-JOHN: Sometimes you know something is wrong even though they say everything is OK. So, that`s why I got involved with this.
BEHAR: They can give you an MRI also if something doesn`t show up on the mammogram, then they`ll give you an MRI. I was talking to Larry Norton at Sloan Kettering just this week.
NEWTON-JOHN: They`ll do that now, but even 18 years ago, they won`t you know. It didn`t show up they weren`t so sure, but I found it and now --
BEHAR: What`s this thing?
NEWTON-JOHN: This is a wonderful thing. It`s called the Liv. It`s a breast self-exam aid that I`ve been part of developing for the last seven years. And it`s called Liv, the logo of breast cancer and my name. What it does? I want to show you because -- it magnifies your touch. So, when you do your regular self-exam it makes everything feel larger. You feel that with your fingertips.
BEHAR: Salt.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes, salt.
BEHAR: That`s salt.
NEWTON-JOHN: Now, feel it with the lid on top of it.
BEHAR: Oh.
NEWTON-JOHN: Can you feel the difference?
BEHAR: Yes.
NEWTON-JOHN: It feels larger. So, if there are any changes, if you get used to doing it once a month you get to know what`s normal for you.
BEHAR: So, it has kind of a gel inside there --
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes, there`s a gel inside --
BEHAR: That emphasizes --
NEWTON-JOHN: That emphasizes your touch.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. That`s a good idea.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes. It`s a heart shape. If you love yourself enough, you do your regular self-exam and it`s not to replace your mammograms.
BEHAR: No, absolutely not.
NEWTON-JOHN: Just a way of being conscious and being aware and being responsible for our breast which I think is important.
BEHAR: OK. Thanks. we`ll have more with Olivia Newton-John in just a minute. She`s not going away yet.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Olivia Newton-John. You know, much has changed in the last 20 years about, you know, breast cancer for some reason used to be a taboo topic, you know. Cancer in general. You know, a friend of mine always says his family used to go -- "she has cancer."
NEWTON-JOHN: Like the big "C" you whispered it.
BEHAR: And yet you were actually outed by the media?
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: Eighteen years ago, you were famous. Did it bother you at the time that you got all that publicity around an illness?
NEWTON-JOHN: At the time, I think it was a little uncomfortable because, you know, I was kind of shy, and so, when they were talking about breast cancer it was like oh, I was mortified. Now, I`m so open about it and I`m so thrilled that it is out in the open because women, they need to talk about it and not be ashamed and get it off your chest literally.
Because I think there`s an emotional component to a lot of illness and I think it`s healthy to talk about things and get those feelings out and the stress that might be related to any kind of illness you have.
BEHAR: Well, look how things have changed. I mean, Michael Douglas, he recently finished treatment for throat cancer and he`s said everything about it. He`s in stage four and he`s going through the treatments and I think it`s, you know, it`s a good thing.
NEWTON-JOHN: He`s very brave and it`s very encouraging for other people.
BEHAR: It is to hear that. And sometimes, when a celebrity outs himself on an illness, it changes people. I mean, remember when Rock Hudson came out and said that he had, I don`t know if he said it, but we saw that he had AIDS.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes.
BEHAR: And a lot of legislation I think followed from that.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes, I think it always helps. It always helps to talk about things and get it out in the open.
BEHAR: Yes. Another thing that is happening these days are eating disorders. We had someone on the other night and there`s a show called "What`s Eating You?" with people who have these horrible eating disorders. Now, I know that your daughter, Chloe Lattanzi. She`s 24. She struggled with anorexia in the past. So, how is she doing now?
NEWTON-JOHN: She is fantastic. She is wonderful. She is healthy. She`s happy. She`s beautiful.
BEHAR: She`s so cute.
NEWTON-JOHN: She`s love and about to launch a career with her music and a television show. She`s really doing great.
BEHAR: So, when was she struggling with the disorder?
NEWTON-JOHN: It`s a few years ago now.
BEHAR: Few years ago?
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes. She`s OK now.
BEHAR: But she`s better. Why do you think these kinds of eating disorders are on the rise? I mean, I don`t remember hearing anything about this when I was a kid. Some of us were skinny. Some of us were not so skinny. It didn`t --
NEWTON-JOHN: I think it`s probably always been around. I think we just didn`t have a name for it and we didn`t know what it was because I know I had friends that had this problem that I didn`t recognize that was the problem then.
BEHAR: Really.
NEWTON-JOHN: So, I think it`s all about control. Kids are looking to get control of their lives.
BEHAR: It`s a difficult thing. Now, is it true you married your hubby, John Easterling, in a secret ceremony? Is that true?
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes. We got married in Peru, and we didn`t tell anyone. I told my daughter and that was it and we snuck away to Peru and did it on a mountain top where we had the year before we sat together. We`d only been together like a week, but I kind of knew and he knew, and so a year later, we got married on the mountain top and it was just beautiful. Very special.
BEHAR: You know what you are, you`re spiritual.
NEWTON-JOHN: Yes. I guess I am.
BEHAR: You are a spiritual person. Are you religious?
NEWTON-JOHN: I wouldn`t say religious, but I kind of take from all the belief systems. I think they`re all connected, and I think there`s a higher power. Yes.
BEHAR: OK. Well, it was lovely to see you again.
NEWTON-JOHN: Can I just say something I`m doing next week please?
BEHAR: Sure. Hurry up.
NEWTON-JOHN: I`m going to be at Busch Gardens on the 27th --
BEHAR: Which Busch?
NEWTON-JOHN: In Tampa, Florida, and I`m going to be hosting an event for breast cancer and prostate cancer.
BEHAR: OK.
NEWTON-JOHN: Thank you.
BEHAR: And her new album is called "Grace and Gratitude Renewed." So, check it out. Goodnight, everybody. Here it is.
NEWTON-JOHN: Thank you.
END
