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Joy Behar Page

Pedophile Guide Outrage; Interview With Colin Quinn

Aired November 11, 2010 - 21:00   ET



UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (AUDIO GAP) -- first woman POW ever rescued from behind enemy lines.

That and more starting right now.

JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: A Pedophile`s Guide to Love and Pleasure, that`s the name of a book that was for sale on until yesterday when the online retailer finally took it down. While most people feel the book is outrageous, the sale of this guide is actually legal. The guide`s author Phillip Greaves spoke to KOAA in Colorado yesterday.



PHILLIP GREAVES, AUTHOR OF PEDOPHILE GUIDE: Well, to tell you the truth I don`t think that it`s always bad for the child. Ok? But I do think it`s always confining for the adult because there are just so many more things that adults can enjoy between each other than they could enjoy with a child without hurting the child.

You know, every time you see them on television they`re either murders, rapists, or kidnappers. And you know, that`s just not an accurate presentation of the -- that particular sexuality. It`s not.


BEHAR: Oh, I was planning on having the author on my show tonight but couldn`t bring myself to talk to him. If you want to hear from him be sure to watch CNN`s "AC 360" tonight.

Here now are Stacey Honowitz, Florida prosecutor and author of "My Privates are Private"; First Amendment lawyer, Charles "Chip" Babcock; Vito Colucci, former police officer and current private investigator.

Chip, it seems so wrong and yet it`s legal. Tell me about it. Why?

CHARLES BABCOCK, FIRST AMENDMENT LAWYER: Well, it`s legal in the sense that the government can`t restrain its publication. We don`t have prior restraints in this country but it doesn`t -- it has legal consequences.


BABCOCK: Well, if this guy is chatting about a particular child that he has molested and sharing details about the child he could get sued for invasion of privacy.

BEHAR: He doesn`t do that.

BABCOCK: Yes. If this pamphlet shows up in a pedophile`s cache the cops are going to use that as a red flag for looking at this guy, maybe using that as evidence in a criminal prosecution. So the pamphlet has legal consequences it`s just that the government can`t restrain it from publication.

BEHAR: Cannot restrain it.

It`s illegal to molest children but not illegal to write a how-to book on it.

Stacey, do you think writing a how-to guide on something criminal should also be illegal?

STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Joy, I don`t think you could ask anybody that question and someone would say oh, this is proper and this is great. I mean I wrote my book "My Privates are Private" about how to prevent somebody from touching you and I couldn`t get the main stream publisher to even look at it because the topic was taboo. Here we are talking about this man writing a book for pedophiles. I mean it`s absolutely ridiculous.

And Chip`s right. The government can`t restrain you but and the other places can keep from putting it on their site.

BEHAR: Well, we`ll get to that.

HONOWITZ: There are restrictions. There are restrictions.

BEHAR: We`ll get to that. I`m going to talk about what Amazon did in a minute. But the author, this guy -- I don`t even want to refer him as the author. You know, it`s just -- it`s too skivvy for me to even say "the author".

BABCOCK: Skivvy?

BEHAR: This guy. You know, Skivvy. I got your word didn`t I? This is what he told CNN, this guy Greaves. "True pedophiles love children and would never hurt them. Penetration is out."

I could just kill him. "You can`t do that with a child, but kissing and fondling I don`t think is that big of a problem."

Vito isn`t kissing and fondling children pedophilia?

VITO COLUCCI, PRIVATE INVESTIGATOR: Oh, of course it is; any kind of things like that, Joy. And you know what`s going to happen in the future. Let me tell you this as an ex-cop.

Detectives are going to be sitting across from the pedophile who he just arrested and this pedophile is going to tell him that he read this book, he bought this book, and it turned him on. You`re going to hear that in a lot of cases over the next couple years. This is one of the most ridiculous things I have ever seen Joy.

BEHAR: Now Stacey, the author keeps saying that we are misunderstanding his intention which is in his words, these are his words; this is what it does when we misunderstand his intention. "It makes pedophile situations safer for those juveniles that find themselves involved in them by establishing certain rules for these adults to follow. I hope to achieve this by appealing to the better nature of pedosexuals," - - which I never heard of that word -- "with hope that their doing so will result in less hatred and perhaps lighter sentences should they ever be caught."

Stacey, he is worried about the pedophile it seems to me. What do you say to that statement, Stacey?

HONOWITZ: Well, of course he is worried about the pedophiles. Let me tell you something. It is very interesting that he wrote this. How does he have this information? I mean that`s what you have to look at. Is he an expert in pedophilia? And how was he an expert in pedophilia?

BEHAR: Well, he says he is not a pedophile himself but he did admit to having sexual contact with a child as a teenager himself.

HONOWITZ: And I guess he really didn`t want to go to prison for it and so now, he is going to be generous and he`s going to tell the public that these men are not that bad.

And I`m here to tell you, I`ve been prosecuting these cases for over 20 years. These pedophiles don`t even need a guide to tell you the truth. They all know the tricks in the trade of what to do in order to get these kids.

BEHAR: I can just imagine.

I mean he says at one point, someone told me Chip, that he says in the book that these pedophiles when they want to pleasure themselves with pictures of children they should only have them dressed so that if the cops break in they won`t arrest them.

BABCOCK: Yes, for pornography, yes.

BEHAR: What does this guy have to do to get arrested?

BABCOCK: I don`t know. You know, Stacey and Vito may be able to talk to this point better than I but I understand that this thing is just sort of the tip of the iceberg. They have these how-to manuals all over the Internet and there is almost this community of pedophiles, which is horrible.

And what does he have to do to get arrested? I would guess that the notoriety he has brought on himself is probably going to result in a little more attention from law enforcement than he might have otherwise seen.

BEHAR: That`s a good point. But what about the people, Stacey, who buy the book -- there are people who are buying this stuff -- are the authorities tracking them down?

HONOWITZ: Yes. Well, listen, I mean there is a whole side of pedophilia, a whole underbelly of this world that the general public really doesn`t know about. They are under surveillance; they`re being watched. And certainly anybody that wants to draw attention to this disgusting, criminal behavior is going to bring attention to the whole community. And so the police officers that are trained, the veteran squads that just do pedophilia and child pornography, all those types of cases, are certainly going to be watching very carefully as to see if this stuff is traded online and there are special surveillance and these pedophiles know it that are watching them.

So certainly this man does bring attention -- you start to wonder, why would he want to bring this attention and this publicity?

BEHAR: You know what? Let`s talk about it for a minute, Vito. The guy has admitted to mental health problems. Do you think he`s stable now?

COLUCCI: No. He is not stable but he`s shrewd because his book went up in one day, Joy, 100,000 percent. Ok?

BEHAR: Right.

COLUCCI: Now, what has to happen on here, Craigslist, when the public outcry and the police outcry about the sexual sites that led to the death of some women, they finally shut that part down. The public, Amazon deals with money -- the public has to say we are not listing our products, we are not buying your products until you get that stuff off. That is the only way you`re going to hurt these people because this is out of control, Joy.

BEHAR: Ok. Let`s talk about Amazon for a minute. Amazon kept the book for sale at first, writing to one user, this was Amazon, they said, "Let me assure you that does not support or promote hatred or criminal acts. believes it is censorship not to sell certain titles because we believe their message is objectionable."

That`s, Chip, that`s for you to respond to, because they`re saying I think in that statement that if you say that this is -- can`t be sold then you also can`t sell the "Tropic of Cancer" let`s say which was considered obscene in its day.


BEHAR: So how does the First Amendment respond to that?

BABCOCK: Yes. I thought their rhetoric was wrong on that. I don`t think this is a First Amendment issue. Amazon can sell what it wants and can not sell what it wants. If the government came in and said Amazon you can`t sell this book, you can`t sell that book, that would be a big First Amendment issue.

BEHAR: Right.

BABCOCK: But here -- I mean this is actually a victory for free speech in a way because once this became known that this book was being sold, you had a lot of people speaking about it.

BEHAR: Right.

BABCOCK: We`ve got on Twitter, it caught your attention, it caught the attention of other media and Amazon made a decision whether it`s a business decision or --

BEHAR: Oh, it`s a business decision.

BABCOCK: Well, maybe -- maybe to give them some credit maybe they took a little closer look at this and thought that maybe they should not be distributing this kind of material on Kindle. But in any event because of what people spoke, what people said they made a decision to take it down.

BEHAR: It does promote -- go ahead Stacey.

HONOWITZ: I think that is a different story. Excuse me for one second.


HONOWITZ: You can write. Your first amendment rights should not be breached if you want to write. If you want to stand on the corner with your little pamphlet telling pedophiles how to molest children and someone wants to buy it that`s fine but these sites that sell books, they have a right to say we`re going to review the content of that book and if that content of that book is objectionable or there are criminal aspects they have a right to turn it down.

In this aspect on an e-book there is an editor involved before you can just go and publish your work somewhere. I`m wondering if that`s what they`re looking at.


COLUCCI: Stacey --

BEHAR: Last word Vito, go ahead.

COLUCCI: Stacey, you know what is going to happen to this. Every police officer, every city, every county is going to log who is buying this book. Ok? And that`s going to make a log of all these people and look at them when the crimes are being committed and you know, Stacey, that will be a help to the police even if this is a bizarre --

BEHAR: Good.

COLUCCI: They`re going to let all your journalists off the list, though. All the media that`s been buying this book --

BEHAR: Well, we didn`t buy the book. We`ve been reading stuff about the book. We wouldn`t buy that, sully my delicate hands. Thank you guys very much.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little late ear judge orders a tearful Mel Gibson to pay $60,000 in back child support. And Sarah Palin uses her new reality show to complain about an invasion of her privacy.

Now, back to Joy.

BEHAR: You know, who knew a handshake could cause such drama? We`re looking at first lady Michelle Obama earlier this week shaking the hand of an Indonesian minister who didn`t want to shake her hand. Is that because of his conservative Muslim faith or because he is a germophobe like Howie Mandel or the Donald? We don`t know.

And to talk about that and more, my good friend, my pal, Colin Quinn is here. His new one-man Broadway show is called "Long Story Short" covers everything from Socrates to Snooki


BEHAR: Welcome to the show.

QUINN: In one fell swoop.

BEHAR: In one fell swoop.

QUINN: Thank you Joy.

BEHAR: You`re welcome darling. So what do you make of that Michelle Obama story?

QUINN: Yes. I think it is disrespectful. I would never shake hands with a fornicator. I hope I can`t include you in that category.

BEHAR: What do you mean a fornicator?

QUINN: It`s unclean. I`ll tell you why that rule is invented. It`s for a good reason in the Islamic faith like, you know, on my show I so talk about some things. They invented that you`re not supposed to shake another guy`s wife`s hand. It`s disrespectful because too many guys probably back in the day in the Middle East were like, you know, guys will take advantage. Start kissing someone`s wife and kissing them on the lips so it got down to don`t even bother touching her.

BEHAR: I see. The Hasidic Jews are like that too. The men dance in one room and the women dance in the other. They don`t --

QUINN: Right. They put a big sheet in the middle.

BEHAR: Well, yes. Not at a wedding? Do they do that at a wedding?

QUINN: No, but you remember Mike Sweeney`s joke?

BEHAR: No, what was it?

QUINN: He said, you know they have sex. Mike Sweeney, I mean, none of you heard of him, but anyway.

BEHAR: He`s the head writer at Conan.

QUINN: He`s the head writer at Conan.

BEHAR: He`s the head writer. Go ahead.

QUINN: On TNT now. None of you heard of that either. But anyway, ok. He used to say, yes, the Hasidic Jews have sex through a hole in the sheet. I need to go to their house dressed as a ghost on Halloween.

BEHAR: He was a funny guy. Still is.

Let`s talk about your show "Long Story Short", it`s opened to rave reviews.

QUINN: Sensational.

BEHAR: Let`s take a look.

QUINN: Yes. Look at the good reviews.


QUINN: We decided we wanted to see ourselves for who we really are. That was the first awakening. The ancient Greeks were the first ones to say an unexamined life is not worth living. They don`t tell you of course what we found out, an examined life not that fascinating either.


QUINN: Nice.

BEHAR: How right you are. The examined life is not that fascinating either.

QUINN: Exactly. That is the sad part. Isn`t it?

BEHAR: I agree. Have you been through therapy?

QUINN: Yes. I`m coming to the end of therapy.

BEHAR: Really? How many years have you done?

QUINN: Not that many. Ten.

BEHAR: I got you beat. I got you beat on that one.

QUINN: My therapist is retiring. That`s why I`m stopping.

BEHAR: Mine got Alzheimer`s right in the middle of a session. Please. I can`t talk about it. In the middle of like group -- I said the woman keeps repeating herself. What`s wrong with her? Turns out, hm.

QUINN: Oh, no. So what happens now? Are you still going?

BEHAR: I got a refund. No, I didn`t I`m kidding.

QUINN: Joy would say you owe me $300. Oh, ok.

BEHAR: I saw the show and it`s wonderful.

QUINN: Thank you.

BEHAR: I love the show. It`s great. The other people who have seen it here, they love it. You packed thousands of years of history into 75 minutes and you talk fast.


BEHAR: I`ll give you that. How did do you that? How did you work on that show?

QUINN: Well, Joy, it was just basic common knowledge as you know and then once in a while I`d Google a little something if I didn`t know the exact facts as you know from my career. Of course I know all the facts about everything.


QUINN: That`s what I did. I just started working on it last year. Believe it or not, started working on it at the Brokerage and Governors.

BEHAR: One of my favorites. I love those clubs.

QUINN: Wednesday nights they give me the night. Nobody was doing the gigs. I did them there and just worked it out there a little bit and then worked it, Gotham Comedy Club for a week, then Jerry got involved, Big Jerry.

BEHAR: Jerry, Jerry got involved.

QUINN: Jerry came in, he`s a producer.

BEHAR: The moolah, he`s got the big, big bucks.

QUINN: I said will you direct it? We need a director. He goes ok. So he`s directing it. Shaped it. Now look at it.

BEHAR: Wow. And it`s good to have his name attached.

QUINN: Yes. Are you kidding me?

BEHAR: Yes. That`s how you got on Broadway, right, with his name?

QUINN: I guarantee you. I like to think it`s all on the merit of the show but let`s be honest. Nobody cares. My name has zero value. Colin Quinn, "Long Story Short", Jerry Seinfeld.

BEHAR: I know.

I used to do a gig from the show La Fond (ph). Remember her? I`d go to a job up in the Catskills. It would say "Michelle La Fond Productions presents -- Joy Behar".

QUINN: Michelle La Fond, is that the craziest name you ever heard in your life?

BEHAR: Well, she made it up I think. Now, let`s see. You can be a Martha Stewart to the British Empire. Can you explain that?

QUINN: Just because she has that same carriage and bearing like people respect Martha. I`m sure you do too. Let`s face it. All women love Martha Stewart.

BEHAR: Well, because she is a mover and shaker.

QUINN: But also, because they love the fantasy life, whatever stupid things that we can`t see as men when you look at her set. I`m like I can`t see what`s so special about her house, or her set or putting these things in order but that`s what women love about it. And that`s what men love about the British Empire. They go in, they brutally take over a place but really they would put it into a certain structural system where everybody is like oh, my god. Like you have a parlor there --

BEHAR: That`s very good. That is what the show is about. I love that.

And then you say also that Snooki is the sign of the end of America`s great nation`s status. We`ve had Snookis throughout civilization.

QUINN: Exactly.

BEHAR: How is she --

QUINN: That`s an example of a show not being great. Ok? You kill it before I even get a chance to defend it. (INAUDIBLE) What the hell is that about?

BEHAR: Tell me. Make your case.

QUINN: I`m not going to. You already destroyed my case before I got to say a word.

BEHAR: How is she a sign?

QUINN: She is not a sign. I agree with you actually. First all of all, she is not the worst. Jerry Springer when that show started, Snooki has more class than every Jerry Springer guest put together probably.

BEHAR: It`s true.

QUINN: It was more that particular joke was more about the fact that we watched -- they used to watch plays about nobility like antiquity or epic plays and now we watch Snooki because she lost her cell phone. You know what I mean?

BEHAR: Yes, that`s right.

QUINN: It`s more about like what was our entertainment thing is.

BEHAR: Did you see this whole thing the other day that came out with the list of Democrats like certain shows.

QUINN: Yes I saw that.

BEHAR: So Democrats love -- I mean Republicans love "Dancing with the Stars".

QUINN: Right.

BEHAR: And the Democrats like "Dexter" and "Mad Men" and all the shows about dysfunction.

QUINN: Right.

BEHAR: What do you make of it? In the next segment, we`ll find out. We`ll right back with Colin Quinn. I want to know.

QUINN: Thank God I saw that list.



QUINN: That`s why shalom means hello and good-bye. That`s their story. Believe it. Shalom.


BEHAR: I`m back with comedian Colin Quinn whose one man show, "Long Story Short" is on Broadway now.

QUINN: Great. Let`s show the clip of me trashing the Jews and their medium. Anyway, anyway. Play out the (INAUDIBLE)


BEHAR: What about the fact that Republicans like to watch "Dancing with the Stars?" What do you make of that?

QUINN: Well, because Bristol Palin is on. It`s a fine show anyway. I love "Dancing with the Stars".

BEHAR: Really. Why?

QUINN: Just kidding. I can`t watch that horrifying show. How about those outfits? What is it, 1950s? I don`t even get it.

BEHAR: I know.

QUINN: I don`t even get this culture anymore.

BEHAR: Now, I read or I heard that Dennis Miller once told you that you won`t make it big because you have something missing. Do you have one testicle or something?

QUINN: No. How funny is that, writing a book called "One Lone Nut".

BEHAR: I know. It`s funny.

QUINN: And he has one testicle. Read the book, "One Lone Nut".

BEHAR: I know it`s funny. But it`s really about --

QUINN: No, Dennis miller didn`t say I wouldn`t make it. Dennis Miller just said one time we were talking, he came to see me in 1987, remember when Dennis Miller first came around, the guy was like a brilliant, blah, blah, blah.

BEHAR: Mr. Vocabulary.

QUINN: Mr. Vocabulary. He came to see me in New York. I was like doing my first headline set and he came with his date. I was like oh, my God Dennis Miller was there, a fan of mine. And for sure he goes "Quinny, I love you. There`s just something missing and I don`t know what it is." And to this day it`s haunted me.

BEHAR: Well, what do you think it is?

QUINN: I don`t know. Maybe Dennis will remember what it is. But I agree with him.

BEHAR: You agree with him that something`s missing.

QUINN: It`s just been there twitching my head.

BEHAR: What do you think is missing? Never mind.

QUINN: Well, it`s not going to be on that list that`s for sure.

BEHAR: No, that`s true. Now, the movie --

QUINN: What do you think is missing? Never mind.

BEHAR: You don`t know the answer. Why pursue it?

QUINN: Why are you looking at the paper for?

BEHAR: Because I have a better question for you. You were in the movie "Grownups"?

QUINN: Yes I was.

BEHAR: Ok. Now, I heard everybody got a gift of a Maserati from Adam Sandler except you and Norm McDonald. I could see Norm but why not you?

QUINN: What? Huh? Because Adam chose to give it to some of the other guys in the movie and that`s Adam`s decision. We`re very happy for him. It`s on DVD. He gave me and Norm the rights to a zip car for three days.

BEHAR: Now how do you --

QUINN: Son of a --

BEHAR: I think that your show is very smart and so I`m wondering as a kid you obviously were paying attention in history class but also were class clown, I would think right?

QUINN: I was a class clown. Were you like that too?

BEHAR: Were you a successful class clown?

QUINN: Yes. In many ways I was because the kids -- I was funny but the teachers didn`t like me. When I look back now I realize I was such an obnoxious kid but, you know, I went to schools like you, like a public school in New York so compared to the anarchy that was going on there, they really wouldn`t -- I wasn`t like a bad kid. I saw people come in and punch the teachers.

BEHAR: Really?

QUINN: Oh, yes. In the middle of class.

BEHAR: No kidding.

Ok. "Long Story Short" it`s on Broadway now. Check it out. He takes on every group that there is. We`ll be right back.

Thank you, Colin.

QUINN: Thanks, Joy.



ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Sarah Palin makes her long awaited reality show debut.

And former prisoner of war, Jessica Lynch, tells Joy what Veterans Day means to her. Now back to Joy.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Mel Gibson and Oksana Grigorieva met in court yesterday and Mel got all emotional and weepy. Before we start, can I just ask what`s up with all the hysterical men? Mel is crying. John Boehner is crying. Glenn Beck is crying. It`s like watching designers get voted off project runway. Give it a rest, OK?

Here now to discuss Mel and oh so much more are Rebecca Dana, a senior correspondent for the Daily Beast, actor and comedian John Fugelsang, and Gail Simmons, the host of "Top Chef Just Desserts". Welcome to the show. Now, Mel Gibson was ordered to pay Oksana $60,000 in back child support. OK? That`s for three months of child support, which -- he spends more than that that in disguises doesn`t he? This guy? Rebecca, my question is how does a guy with all this money get away with paying such a little bit of that and not actually paying it?

REBECCA DANA, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THE DAILY BEAST: Yes. I mean, I think the only thing that would be out of character for Mel Gibson to do at this point would be to say, like, oh, here`s a -- I`m responsible for a child and a woman. Here`s money. This man has gotten away with all manner of anti-Semitism, homophobia. He`s gotten away with horrible things for decades.

BEHAR: That`s true.

DANA: I`m not surprised.

BEHAR: This is nothing new. He`s just -- he`s what -- go ahead.

JOHN FUGELSANG, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: I think Mel is lucky the judge didn`t make him pay reparations for "Lethal Weapon 4."


BEHAR: He should have.

FUGELSANG: Yes. I think that would have -- it` a crime. But the worm has really turned here because now, the public tide of opinion has begun to go against Oksana, partially, because people have seen her as a scheming gold digger, partially, because she`s begun to morph into octo- mom. Have you seen them together?

BEHAR: No, I haven`t. Has she started -- the lips?

FUGELSANG: It`s the same face.

BEHAR: The lips.

FUGELSANG: It`s getting scary, Joy.

BEHAR: Well, here`s another thing about him. He held off on child support until he could ask about deducting the $6,000 he`s paying for the home that Oksana and Little Lucia, his daughter, are living in. Can we say cheap?

GAIL SIMMONS, HOST, "TOP CHEF JUST DESSERTS": I think cheap is the underestimation of the century here. I mean, to think that he is holding back $20,000 a month because his child needs a place to sleep is pretty extraordinary to me.

BEHAR: And is extraordinary, but --

SIMMONS: How dare she, right?

BEHAR: Well, the tearful testimony happened, what do you think, before or after he was ordered to pay the 60,000?

DANA: I mean during, you know, this -- is this a person who has an authentic emotional experience?


DANA: He screams, he cries. He probably cries every morning he wakes up.

BEHAR: They`re crying. All the victims out there. Everyone`s a victim these days. OK. Well, anyway, his day in court was not a total disaster because the judge sided with Mel when Oksana asked to strip him of overnight visits with Lucia. He`s going to get that. So, she said, John, listen to this, Oksana, she said that when the kid goes with him, she comes back acting funny. What do you think she`s talking about?

FUGELSANG: I don`t know. Maybe watching "Bird on a Wire" with Mel. I mean, everyone`s got to get off Mel`s case. Everyone is nagging, nagging, nagging. It`s like the man has been raped by a pack of naggers. It`s terrible.

BEHAR: OK. That`s nice of you to defend him.

FUGELSANG: Oh, not. It`s not quite defending him.


FUGELSANG: It`s actually not quite defending him, but what the real deal is now it`s been a long time since those tapes came out. The shock value is over and Oksana has played that card the only time she gets to play it. For the rest of her life and her child`s life, that tape is going to be out there. Her kid is going to grow up and hear that she Linda Tripped her own baby daddy. And Mel has hired a lot of publicity people to try to make the tide of public opinion swaying in his favor.

BEHAR: Why is she the bad guy in this?

FUGELSANG: They`re both bad guys. Joy, this is like Sharron Angle and Harry Reid. I don`t know who to root against this one. They both have committed so many sins against each other and into the eyes of an unwilling public.

SIMMONS: It`s not just that they`re, you know, who`s to blame. Just grow up and be parents here. You know, what happened to just good old fashioned parenting?

BEHAR: All right. Let`s listen to this story. This is a good one. Illinois Representative John Shimkus wants to be chairman of the House Energy and Commerce Committee. The problem? He says he won`t fight global warming. Why? Because God told him not to worry. I wonder if he spoke to God about the polar bears he`s going to have in his living room. Listen.


REP. JOHN SHIMKUS, (R) ILLINOIS: The earth will end only when God declares it`s time to be over. Man will not destroy this earth. This earth will not be destroyed by a flood. I do believe God`s word is infallible, unchanging, perfect.


BEHAR: OK. So, if there`s a hurricane again or a flood, am I supposed to call Noah or a plumber, according to this guy?

DANA: I think you`re just supposed to sit back and enjoy the rising tides because according to John Shimkus, you know, God decides what`s happening. We`re powerless in the face of it. So, you know, just --

BEHAR: He`s mentally ill.

FUGELSANG: No, he`s not.

BEHAR: The guy is mental. Come on.

FUGELSANG: No, he`s not. He`s protecting polluters, Joy. His job is to protect polluters and not make the law come down on them. I don`t think this guy knows a thing that`s in the bible because God doesn`t say he won`t destroy the earth. He won`t flood the earth again, and he warns mankind to be custodians of the earth, but in revelations, which I`m sure is his favorite book, it says in chapter 11, God will destroy the destroyers of the earth and that`s what the anti-environmentalist Christians need to worry about.

This guy doesn`t know anything about the bible. If you believe the bible -- if you want a government based on Christian values, then act like it.

BEHAR: Why is he even in this position? A guy who`s quoting the bible about the environment should not even have the job.

SIMMONS: That`s exactly what I was going to say, Joy. I think it`s amazing that he`s allowed to quote the bible in this scenario in the first place. What happened to the separation of church and state here? And what happened to us, you know, looking to science and the government to help preserve our future and the future of the generations to come?

FUGELSANG: In parts of this country, you can run on that and win though, and he`s playing to the base. Who knows what he really believes?

BEHAR: He should not have the job.

FUGELSANG: No doubt.

DANA: He`s up against three other Republicans who are not a whole lot more likeable than he is in terms of this, and I think one scary thing that`s being overlooked here is that a significant portion of the health care reform bill would fall under his jurisdiction if he gets this chairmanship.

BEHAR: Really?

DANA: Yes.

BEHAR: So, he`ll say that God gave you cancer?

DANA: Yes.


DANA: When God is the ultimate --

FUGELSANG: People believe what they want to believe. This is a guy and a Christian who read Genesis and Leviticus, skipped all the way to revelations and missed all the Jesus being nice to people stuff.


FUGELSANG: That`s exactly what it is.

BEHAR: You seem to know a lot about the bible.

FUGELSANG: I`m hung up on that. Yes.

DANA: Your mother is a nun.

FUGELSANG: My mother is a nun.

BEHAR: That`s right.

FUGELSANG: Yes. So, that`s why I get really mad when I see these guys using the bible to justify selfish, nasty behavior that really is about one thing, protecting polluters.

BEHAR: You`re right about that.

DANA: Towering behind it.

BEHAR: Yes. OK. Now, this Sunday is the premiere of Sarah Palin`s "Alaska." Think of it as "The Real Housewives of Alaska with Moose." It`s an eight-part reality series and it`s quite beautiful. Sarah introduces you to some of Alaska`s natural wildlife then she shoots it. Here`s a clip from the show. Take a look.



SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: That whole misperception about being a diva, it kind of cracks me up. There`s gnat stuck to my lips. I would describe myself, my family as just normal, average, every day Americans. I`d rather be out here being free. This is what life is all about. And on a really clear day, you can see Russia from here. Almost.


BEHAR: So, she`s using that joke now. She`s taking that joke and using it for herself.

FUGELSANG: She can also see moving it from her house.

DANA: Literally nothing apart from the gnat sticks to this woman. I mean, no matter how bad -- like, there`s a car accident, there`s something horrible, I think, oh, this is the thing that`s going to undo the Sarah Palin mystic, and it all seems to help her.

BEHAR: What is it about her? Why?

FUGELSANG: I like Sarah Palin. I think she`s sort of like a female Ann Coulter. But here`s the thing --


FUGELSANG: The show looks really good. I mean, Alaska is the most beautiful state anybody ever got bored of governing and quit, but, you know, she`s not a mama grizzly, folks. All you Palin supporters getting offended out there, a real mama grizzly would never ask her cubs to pay for a rich guy`s tax cut.

BEHAR: That`s true.

FUGELSANG: And this is a campaign commercial and nothing else. Did you see her primetime special on Fox News?

BEHAR: No, I haven`t.

FUGELSANG: No one saw it. It got no ratings. It was on Fox News. There are relationships in Paris Hilton`s life that`ll last longer than this show.

BEHAR: Well, I`ve watched a little of this, and she`s actually quite likeable the way that King Kong liked that (ph). You know what I mean? But she`s likeable in the way that she`s a big monster and that we sort of have to like her because she`s out there in the wilderness.

SIMMONS: Because there`s a lot of creative editing that goes into these shows. And of course, they`re going to edit her so that you like her back, the whole point of her having her own show. Let me assure you, Mark Burnett (ph), the man who`s producing the show is the king of making scary situations look really beautiful.

BEHAR: He`s very good at that. You know, I understand it cost almost a million dollars an episode. They are spending so much money.

FUGELSANG: And that`s just a (INAUDIBLE).

DANA: I mean, the brilliant thing about that, there`s one of a million brilliant things about this is that who`s regulating? I mean, this is a campaign commercial. Nobody is getting equal time here.


BEHAR: She says the show is completely nonpolitical. Do you buy it?

DANA: It`s impossible --


DANA: Nothing in this woman`s life, "Dancing with the Stars" and her daughter is not nonpolitical.

BEHAR: I know that because if she stops running, nobody is going to be interested in her at all. So, everything is political.

SIMMONS: And how can it not be political when she`s comparing the fence that she builds between her and her neighbor who`s writing the unauthorized book about her to how it should be an example for how we should deal with the borders of our country. How could that be nonpolitical?

FUGELSANG: The only people who want her to run for president are smart Democrats, gullible conservatives, and every single Comedian.

BEHAR: That`s true.


FUGELSANG: Oh, she can see oblivion from her house.


BEHAR: OK. Thank you, guys, very much for joining me tonight. Be sure to tune in to the finale of "Top Chef Just Desserts" Next Wednesday at 10:00 p.m. on Bravo. We`ll be back in a tinky winky break.


BEHAR: Just a few days into the Iraq war in 2003, former Private First Class Jessica Lynch was seriously injured and captured by Iraqi soldiers. A week later, she was freed by U.S. forces and what would be the first successful rescue of an American P.O.W. since World War II and the first ever of a woman. As the press and the Pentagon hyped her story, Lynch went about setting the record straight. I`m very happy to welcome to my show Ms. Jessica Lynch.


BEHAR: Welcome, my dear.

LYNCH: Thank you.

BEHAR: You were the first female P.O.W. ever to be rescued. Tell me what happened to you. What happened in Iraq on that day?

LYNCH: Oh, well, my convoy was ambushed on March 23rd, and from there, I was actually knocked unconscious, so I`m not really sure what happened. But the next thing I know I woke up and I was laying in a hospital bed surrounded by Iraqis all staring down on me.

BEHAR: So, basically a so-called enemy hospital.


BEHAR: Right?


BEHAR: And you were very injured.


BEHAR: What were the injuries?

LYNCH: I had a head concussion. My back was broke at the fourth and fifth lumbar. My arm right here, the -- it`s actually removed and a rod is put in place. My femur was taken out, and a rod is there along with my tibia, and my right foot was completely crushed. I`ve had 20 surgeries over the past seven years just to correct everything.

BEHAR: So, do you think they took care of you, they took good care of you there?

LYNCH: Yes, I think so. As long as I was conscious and alert, I know that, you know, they never tried to harm me.

BEHAR: So, were you treated badly in any way during the capture?

LYNCH: Before hand, before I was taken to the hospital.

BEHAR: Before hand. What happened? What did they do to you, then?

LYNCH: I still don`t know the full details.

BEHAR: You don`t know.

LYNCH: I`ve never been told.

BEHAR: What do you think happened?

LYNCH: Just from the medical evidence, we know that there was definitely some bones that they may have broken.

BEHAR: First, they did that and then they fixed it.

LYNCH: Yes. Well, I had all the surgeries and stuff done in Germany. During Iraq, they were actually going to amputate my left leg because it was so severely damaged and from the nerves that were damaged, from the back being broken. I lost all feeling from my waist down.

BEHAR: So, you think that they might have tortured you a little before you went to the hospital.

LYNCH: That`s what the reports are saying.

BEHAR: But if you weren`t conscious what could they possibly get out of you?

LYNCH: That`s what we were asking.

BEHAR: Yes. That`s a strange --

LYNCH: What was their purpose?


LYNCH: Yes. We don`t know. But that`s just what the report was. There was a time gap that I was knocked unconscious.

BEHAR: So after you left the Iraqi hospital, what happened then?

LYNCH: I was flown from there to Germany.

BEHAR: To Germany, where they gave you all the surgeries and everything.


BEHAR: How long were you in Germany?

LYNCH: About ten days just recuperating trying to stabilize, had to have blood transfusions before I could fly back to the United States.

BEHAR: And then you flew back to your home?

LYNCH: No. I went to Walter Reed and stayed there for three or four months.

BEHAR: What happened when you came home?

LYNCH: It was kind of chaos. It was definitely a whirlwind of events that I was not used to.

BEHAR: Well, the hype.


BEHAR: Was that you went down kind of like a Rambette.

LYNCH: Rambo, yes.

BEHAR: I say Rambette because you`re a woman, but did not -- so, what did they say? They were saying that you were a hero and that you had in a blaze of glory and all that, but that did not feel right to you.

LYNCH: No, no, no. I knew that that wasn`t right because before I blacked out, my weapon, I could not get it to fire. It had completely jammed. So, I knew for a fact that those stories were not correct. And it was just, it`s in me. It`s who I am to tell the truth.

BEHAR: To tell the truth.

LYNCH: Yes. I had to come out and be honest with it.

BEHAR: Would have been just as easy probably for you to say well OK.

LYNCH: Oh, yes. Absolutely.

BEHAR: I was a hero, and you didn`t.

LYNCH: Yes, absolutely because nobody would have known. I mean, everyone in my vehicle was killed that day. So, I was the only survivor out of the five of us. I mean, so, it would have been very easy to take credit for everything that --

BEHAR: You know, from my point of view, you`re a hero for telling the truth.

LYNCH: Well, thank you.

BEHAR: Because the truth is what makes people heroes a lot of times.

LYNCH: Thank you. And unfortunately, a lot of people didn`t look at it like that. I, still to this day, I get blamed for being, I guess, the liar or the creator of the myth.

BEHAR: In other words, people think that you made up the Rambo myth.

LYNCH: Yes. Even though I came out and, you know, continuously have said for the past -- it`s been almost eight years now. So, for this past seven years, I completely said, this is true story (ph). This is what really happened. And still, you know, I still get blamed for kind of creating those.

BEHAR: Well, you know, you`re a truth teller so you know what the truth is.


BEHAR: So, who cares what they say really? You know what happened.

LYNCH: Yes. It`s just hard. You know, because I`m trying to, I guess, physically and emotionally heal. And it`s just hard knowing that, you know, people still look at me as I`m the one that created all these stories.

BEHAR: Well, the rescue was videotaped and released to the public and then this big hype ensued. I mean, do you feel like you were used by the government a little bit?

LYNCH: Yes, maybe in the beginning. Now, you know, I look at it as, you know, they had a job to do, too. They were looking at it as the point of view --

BEHAR: Good P.R.?

LYNCH: This historical event and they wanted to make sure that they captured every moment of it.

BEHAR: So, do you have any regrets about being -- before we go to break because I want to talk to you some more. You have a couple regrets?

LYNCH: Oh, no, no. I don`t have any regrets.


LYNCH: I mean, nothing not joining the army I knew --

BEHAR: You don`t regret that?

LYNCH: No, no, because, at that time, that was the right decision for me. Sure I would have hoped that things would have turned out better, but unfortunately, you know, I don`t regret any of it.

BEHAR: OK. We`re going to have more with Jessica Lynch in just a minute.


BEHAR: I`m back with former P.O.W. Jessica Lynch. You`re engaged now?

LYNCH: I am, yes.

BEHAR: And you have a 3-year-old baby girl.

LYNCH: I do.

BEHAR: Congratulations.

LYNCH: Well, thank you. It goes by so quick.

BEHAR: I know. I know. It must have occurred to you when you were sustaining all these injuries maybe I can`t have kids, right? So, was that a big relief that you could get pregnant?

LYNCH: Yes. It was actually a big relief. I mean, because I thought I would never be able to have kids. And just because of the back and the nerve damage. I mean, I love children so that was definitely one of my goals.

BEHAR: What`s her name?

LYNCH: Dakota Ann.

BEHAR: That`s so cute.

LYNCH: Thank you.

BEHAR: You know, it`s very hard, I think, for veterans to readjust to civilian life.


BEHAR: I mean, on Veterans Day, we`re talking about it, and, what`s the biggest issue do you think veterans face when they come back from a war?

LYNCH: Probably today, it would be the post traumatic stress. I have dealt with it a little bit. I`ve never been diagnosed with it only because I`m, I guess, too stubborn and strong headed. I don`t want --

BEHAR: Maybe you don`t have that.

LYNCH: I definitely have all of the emotional issues and just because of everything I went through. So, I think it`s definitely a problem with the soldiers returning. It`s hard to find someone that they can talk to and just spill out all their problems. It`s hard to tell your wife what you`ve seen or had to do over there.

BEHAR: A lot of vets don`t want to talk about it.

LYNCH: Yes, exactly.

BEHAR: I remember my own family guys coming back from the war and the big one, you know, in the 20th century, and they just didn`t want to discuss it.


BEHAR: They never brought it up. So, it`s hard. It`s a very hard thing and the things that you`ve seen.

LYNCH: It is. And it`s hard to, you know, I`m sure most of them coming home and having to talk to their wives or their children, you know, that`s hard.

BEHAR: It`s very hard. I mean, I have tremendous respect for all of you for doing what you do. I`m serious. And do you think that the female vets have any kind of special thing that they have to face? Is it harder to be a woman in the army? I mean, you`re a female in the middle of it.

LYNCH: I don`t think so, because we get treated just like all of the men.

BEHAR: Were the guys nice to you?

LYNCH: In Iraq?

BEHAR: Yes. No, not --

LYNCH: Oh, you mean just in my unit?

BEHAR: In your unit.

LYNCH: Oh, yes, yes. I mean, we do. We get treated just like the men. I mean, there is no special treatment for us. I mean, obviously, when it comes to lifting or, you know, there are obvious weaknesses there that we can`t do as great as the guys.

BEHAR: Of course not.

LYNCH: You know, but we do. We`re just one of the guys out there.

BEHAR: OK. Before we go, tell me about the work you`re doing with the fisher house program.

LYNCH: Yes, the fisher house. Well, first, my family in Germany got to stay there. So, with the fisher house, I`ve told them, you know, anything that they need from me because we have stayed there, and so, essentially, what I do is just kind of go out and I guess promote it so that people are aware of what the fisher house can provide for soldiers.

BEHAR: I see. What do they promote?

LYNCH: It`s just a home away from home. Let`s say, home that families of soldiers who injured can go in there and they can just kind of comfort, you know, no money down, nothing you have to pay for.

BEHAR: That`s very nice.

LYNCH: Yes. It`s definitely an excellent organization.

BEHAR: That`s very good. So, you`re doing great work for your fellow soldiers.


BEHAR: Good for you. Congratulations.

LYNCH: Well, thank you.

BEHAR: Thanks Jessica for your service and thanks to all our servicemen and women out there. We appreciate everything you do. Goodnight, everybody.