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Joy Behar Page
Ohio Kidnapping Case; Kyron Search Continues; "Modern" Man
Aired November 15, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Last night after a box of wine, I watched the premiere of Sarah Palin`s "Alaska" on TLC. Alaska sure is beautiful and so is Sarah Palin. And if you didn`t know that she`s vehemently against gay rights, a woman`s right to choose and stem cell research which actually might save lives and cure diseases, she seems quite nice.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a 13-year-old girl who vanished with her mother, brother and a family friend has just been found alive, bound and gagged in the basement of 30-year-old Matthew Hoffman. Does he know what happened to the others?
Then Mel Gibson admits he slapped Oksana.
Meanwhile, Rachel Uchitel comes clean about her affair with Tiger Woods. Joy will have all the dirt.
Plus, "Modern Family`s" Jesse Tyler Ferguson is here to talk about his hit show.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: I want to start with a bizarre story in Ohio tonight. Thirteen-year-old Sarah Maynard has been found alive after she and other members of her family went missing on Wednesday. Maynard was found bound and bagged in the home of 30-year-old Matthew Hoffman who has been charged with kidnapping. But the question remains: where are Sarah Maynard`s mother, brother and family friend?
Here with me now to discuss further are ABC News correspondent, Ashleigh Banfield; forensic psychologist and attorney Brian Russell; and former NYPD detective and founder of Alba Investigations, Gil Alba.
Now, she was found, Ashleigh, in Maynard`s (SIX) basement. What made the cops go to Hoffman`s basement to find this -- that they found this girl?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Awesome question, Joy. This is what`s so mysterious. You`ve got an entire family and a family friend missing and yet somehow the police know to go ten miles away to this suspect`s basement and say to the press, we knew we`d find Sarah Maynard there, but we were hoping to find the rest of the family. They somehow knew she was in the basement. They`re not saying how.
BEHAR: Wasn`t there some discussion about how the day after these people went missing, he started a big bonfire in his parents` yard? Right?
BANFIELD: In his backyard, yes. A big pile of ashes --
BEHAR: But the parents were neighbors of the Maynards.
BANFIELD: Parents live within walking distance.
BEHAR: So people there -- where he lived the people are complaining he`s got this fire going. And the parents, his family, are close to the Maynards physically. So there is a connection that they made, which is good police work. Right Gil?
(CROSSTALK)
GIL ALBA, ALBA INVESTIGATIONS: It is good police work. But you know, why did he do this? And why did he take one person and everybody else is missing?
BEHAR: That`s the question.
ALBA: Could he be a sexual predator who saw her? Because they`re not neighbors. I don`t think they`re neighbors but the family lives close to them some place.
BANFIELD: Yes. Ten miles apart.
ALBA: Yes. So could he have spotted her someplace? Because he held her for four days tied up or something. Could he have done that just for that? Or did he get -- how did a kidnapping and how one guy do all that is a lot of work.
BEHAR: He got all those people -- I mean he could have had a gun. He could have taken them out at gunpoint.
BANFIELD: And there`s blood found in the home.
BEHAR: Right a lot of blood in the house.
BANFIELD: So something happened in the Maynard`s home where somebody was badly injured. And then there`s the disappearance. But the interesting thing is, I think where he may have had some connection to the Maynard family was that since his parents lived nearby, he may have visited his parents a whole lot and spotted them.
BEHAR: Yes. It has sense like that, doesn`t it a little bit?
ALBA: That`s one possibility. The other one is -- and I`m not sure about even saying about this, but the boyfriend, I`m not sure if they gave him a polygraph or anything else, but he had a fight with the whole family right before that at that time. And he said he wasn`t home during that time.
BANFIELD: He`s not a suspect now. He`s not a suspect now but --
ALBA: Neither is -- you know this guy`s only a suspect because they arrested him.
BANFIELD: Well, and there`s a girl in his basement bound and gagged. That`s a pretty big suspect.
(CROSSTALK)
ALBA: And a girl in his basement, yes. And they got him for kidnapping, yes.
BEHAR: All right. Brian let me ask you. Brian, Maynard was taken to the hospital and treated for nonlife threatening injuries, the girl. All right? Is she the best lead they have? Are there any other witnesses or anything else that they could use?
BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: As far as we know, Joy, she`s probably the best source of information about what went down at the moment of at least a kidnapping, if not murders of three people and a kidnapping of one.
It looks to me like a targeted kidnapping of the girl probably, unfortunately, for sexual reasons and that these other three may have been in the eyes of this guy collateral damage.
One thing I can tell you Joy. I do think there probably was prior contact between this guy and these people. Because one of the things I`ve learned from covering these cases is that psychopaths are cowards, Joy. They usually don`t do things that put them at maximum risk. They either ambush people in a dark alley or they gain people`s trust first, so that they can know that they`re going to have the element of surprise and overwhelming force.
So I think that there probably was some knowledge of these people that this guy would have had prior.
BEHAR: But my question would be then, if they`re cowards and they want the easy way to do it, why not kidnap the girl when she wasn`t with the rest of the family? They`re just in the way, aren`t they, of his plan?
RUSSELL: Well, yes. Typically, that would be more what you would expect. And so perhaps this began as a home invasion where he maybe thought that he was going to find the girl by herself and he found the other three and maybe dispatched them and took the girl only alive from the scene and tried to dispose of the bodies. In which case the bodies are probably close and you can understand why they`re dredging nearby bodies of water.
BEHAR: Right.
Now Gil, this guy Hoffman is not speaking. What do police do when the suspect doesn`t want to talk? Do they water board him? What do they do to him?
ALBA: They should, right, with this guy? Only because what could they do? They have to give him his rights. Even if he says he has a lawyer, they can still question him under these conditions. Because there`s four -- three people now missing and it`s a kidnapping. So under the emergency rules, you can keep talking to him.
BANFIELD: The sad thing though is with that -- and that`s great because they could save lives that way, but then they can`t use that later.
ALBA: Yes. But what are you looking for? You`re looking for --
BANFIELD: You`re looking for live bodies.
ALBA: Right. That`s number one priority. So they`re going to keep talking to him at that point. And the girl is really -- you know, he could have tied the whole family up and then killed them. Then said, listen, I`m going to kill you if you don`t come with me. She`s, of course, going to give up and go do everything he says.
BEHAR: She`s a child.
ALBA: You`re right.
BEHAR: Now Brian mentioned that -- he calls him a psychopath. That would indicate that he acted alone. Do you think there could be other people involved here?
BANFIELD: That`s a pretty tall order to be doing that sort of damage. Although, hey, look, we had it in Connecticut. It`s a cycle.
BEHAR: Of course.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I mean sometimes it`s a folly a deux, as they say.
BANFIELD: Anything is possible obviously. Anything`s possible.
But I`ll tell you what they`re doing right now. And Gil can probably attest to this. They`re combing everything with a baby comb. Because if they can`t use the evidence they`re going to try to squeeze out of this guy even though he`s demanded a lawyer more than likely or mentioned a lawyer, which means they suppress everything after that, they`re going to use everything else.
BEHAR: Well, there must be fingerprints, or forensic, DNA in the house.
BANFIELD: Hey, hairs, samples, clothing, fabric.
BEHAR: So we just don`t know. I want to follow this story because it`s very interesting to see what the police do.
BANFIELD: They`ll get everything they can.
BEHAR: Now, Brian, there are reports that he served time in the past, this guy Hoffman, for arson. What does that tell you about this psychopath?
RUSSELL: Well, it tells me, Joy, that once again we`re probably looking at somebody who should not have been on the street to do what he did at the time you know. One of the things that just saddens me to no end is how many times we find somebody like this with a teenage girl in his house who we knew before was dangerous and we knew had engaged in behaviors that people like me know escalate over time and we still turn them back loose on the public.
BEHAR: Well, that`s a disgrace.
ALBA: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s one of those horrible realities --
ALBA: Which happens a lot.
BEHAR: -- of this world, that just makes everybody crazy.
ALBA: Yes.
BEHAR: There`s another story that people are talking about -- a missing persons story also. There`s the search for 8-year-old Kyron Horman. It`s been almost six months since he went missing with no new leads until this past weekend when authorities in Oregon searched the water around an island near Kyron`s home.
Have there been any new leads in that case? This is the kid where the parents are basically accusing the stepmother of being involved in the missing child. What`s the new lead? Any new leads? Anything new here?
BANFIELD: That`s the weird thing. They`re looking around this island where they`ve looked before, but not because there`s any new leads. It`s because there`s been different weather. The lake levels, the water levels had gone down.
BEHAR: So that`s why they`re doing it again. I see.
BANFIELD: Hey, they have found murders before when lake levels go down. You can find all sorts of stuff when lake levels go down. It`s the smart thing to do for investigators.
BEHAR: I see. Now Terri Horman, who is Kyron`s stepmother, she was the last person to see this child. But she isn`t cooperating. Gil, how much does that hamper the cops? Again it`s the same question of the other case.
ALBA: The reason this is going on now is because he`s getting a divorce. He`s saying that she was an alcoholic. She never took care of the kids and all that.
Now the people are saying -- now almost everybody is saying that she did it. How do you prove something like that? And top prove something like that, you need like probably cause, which means you need like a gun, a knife, something.
BEHAR: She can get away with this?
ALBA: It`s a very difficult case.
BANFIELD: We don`t know if she did it. We don`t know if she did it.
BEHAR: Well, if she did it, I`m saying, allegedly, of course.
ALBA: Right. Right. Everything points to that.
BEHAR: It does look bad.
The child`s mother spoke on NBC`s "Today" show about why she believes Terri Horman could have hurt Kyron. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DESIREE YOUNG, KYRON HORMAN`S BIOLOGICAL MOTHER: She blamed a lot of the marital problems between Kane and herself on Kyron. That it was a huge point of contention in their marriage and she had expressed in great detail her hatred for Kyron.
I now believe, without a shadow of a doubt, that not only is she capable of hurting Kyron, but it`s clear that she could have hurt him in the worst possible way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It`s so painful to watch the mother in all of these cases. Now, what she`s talking about are e-mails police showed her that Terri sent to friends about Kyron.
ALBA: Yes.
BEHAR: So does that show some kind of motive?
ALBA: Yes, of course. She said she hated the kid and, you know, wanted to get rid of him. And everything else pointed that way. But the husband didn`t come forward until recently. He was looking for her --
BEHAR: And why?
ALBA: I don`t know. That`s why she`s -- that`s why she is so angry at him although they start working together.
RUSSELL: Joy, can I --
BEHAR: Yes. Yes Brian, jump in.
RUSSELL: I just want to say to anybody -- this is one of those cases, unfortunately, where the lessons may not profit the people directly involved as much as they might profit someone else who is watching us tonight. And I want them to know that if you`re a single parent and you brought somebody else under the same roof with your kids as your significant other without having done all of the due diligence that you should have done to know them as well as you should have. And now you find out that they are a drunk or they`re violent or they`re hateful or whatever, that in itself is abusive to keep your kids in that environment with that person --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
RUSSELL: -- even if nothing violent or no kidnappings or anything like that have happened yet. And if you don`t get that person out from under your roof or get yourself and your kids out from under that roof, then you`re complicit --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
RUSSELL: -- I feel, in anything that might happen.
BEHAR: I agree with that.
ALBA: Yes I agree with that. There we go.
BEHAR: But a lot of people are so insecure and desperate that they don`t --
BANFIELD: That mom was the last to know about those e-mails. She was the last to know.
BEHAR: That`s pathetic. Ok, thank you very much everybody we`ll be back in a minute.
ALBA: Thank you.
BEHAR: Yes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Jesse Tyler Ferguson is an Emmy nominated actor who plays Mitchell, one half of the loving gay couple on the hit show "Modern Family". Here is a sneak peek at an upcoming episode.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSE TYLER FERGUSON, ACTOR, "MODERN FAMILY": Ann`s mom spent half of dinner with her hands all over me. It was like she was blind and wanted to know what my thighs looked like.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you sure? I mean, are you really the best judge of this kind of a thing. You`ve had boundary issues since you were a kid.
FERGUSON: I have not.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ok, sorry. My mistake. It must be Cam`s mom. Her issues.
FERGUSON: What are you doing?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing. Just getting a spoon.
FERGUSON: Stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is it bothering you?
FERGUSON: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hey Mitchell.
FERGUSON: There stop it, stop it, force field.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m happy to welcome to my show, Jesse Tyler Ferguson. That is a very funny show.
FERGUSON: Thank you.
BEHAR: You know last night it was pre-empted by the Country Music Awards.
FERGUSON: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And they made a special announcement. We`ll be back? Will be back with "Modern Family" next week?
FERGUSON: That`s hilarious.
BEHAR: Yes.
FERGUSON: There was a -- I guess there was some tornado watch in my aunt`s home town. And they were like, you know, like we`re sorry about "Modern Family" is not on. But we need to bring you this news, dangerous situations and then the guys were like, actually, please stop calling the studios. The show will be on later.
BEHAR: Really.
FERGUSON: You need to stop. Please stop flooding the lines. We can`t put it on, yes, tornado watch.
BEHAR: Wow. You know -- so the show skews rather -- I mean I don`t want to put it in a political situation. But because it`s a gay couple --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Right.
BEHAR: -- that are -- you know, married in a -- in a family and they have a kid, a -- a new study found that it`s a favorite of Republican viewers. That`s interesting.
FERGUSON: It`s very interesting. I mean, I`m very happy. But it`s a -- it`s a -- that was a shocking study.
BEHAR: Why do you think that is?
FERGUSON: I don`t know, I think it`s that family shows are -- we definitely focus on a lot of family values and then -- and the core family and --
BEHAR: Yes.
FERGUSON: -- and bringing up kids in kind of a great way. And then, it just so happens that there`s this gay couple on this, which I`m so -- it actually relieves me to hear that the Republicans love our show so much. Because I -- I think that we call it the Trojan horse. We kind of sneak in there sometimes when they don`t realize they`re enjoying this gay couple.
BEHAR: It`s nice.
FERGUSON: It is -- it`s nice.
BEHAR: Well, I mean, you can`t paint all Republicans as being homophobic.
FERGUSON: Oh absolutely not. I never would, no.
BEHAR: I mean -- but it`s really extreme religion I think that -- that throws that piece --
(CROSSTALK)
FERGUSON: Yes absolutely.
BEHAR: -- in there.
Now you and Eric Stonestreet played -- Stonestreet, he plays your partner Cam.
FERGUSON: Right.
BEHAR: But he is straight, he`s not gay.
FERGUSON: That`s correct.
BEHAR: In real life.
FERGUSON: He`s gay for pay.
BEHAR: Did you and you are gay for real?
FERGUSON: I`m gay for real. I do it for free.
BEHAR: Pay or no pay. You do it for free.
FERGUSON: I do gay for free.
BEHAR: Ok. So -- but you have a great chemistry. And he`s very convincing --
FERGUSON: Yes.
BEHAR: -- as a gay guy, I think.
FERGUSON: He really is. Yes.
BEHAR: Did you teach him anything?
FERGUSON: Just the walk. Just the walk. No. He -- he -- he sort of based his character off of his mother. So it`s grounded in a very real place. And I kind of love that he gets to play the more flamboyant one and I`m the more grounded one. I -- I think he does such a great job.
BEHAR: I think that are rather, I bet you had -- well, you were a kid with red hair.
FERGUSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You must have been tortured for that.
FERGUSON: That`s just one of the many things I was tortured for, yes. Absolutely.
BEHAR: Were you? What -- what else did they torture you about as a kid?
FERGUSON: I think kids knew I was gay and that was not cool with them.
FERGUSON: Where did you grow up?
FERGUSON: In Albuquerque, New Mexico.
FERGUSON: Oh yes.
FERGUSON: I went to Catholic school. So -- that`s not the greatest place to grow up.
BEHAR: You know but -- the thing about is your show is in its second season. But your characters didn`t kiss on screen until about a month ago.
FERGUSON: Correct, yes. Yes.
BEHAR: So were they kind of easing America into this?
FERGUSON: You know maybe a little bit. I think, you know, yes, I would say so. But also it wasn`t something that we were actively avoiding either. I don`t think he and Sophia have actually shared a kiss yet. And it hasn`t caused any sort uproar but yes, we did -- we did acknowledge that -- that fans were wondering what that was. And I -- certainly was like let them show it. When it finally did happen, it was such an integral quiet way that it didn`t ever feel like a big thing. It was never fanfare.
BEHAR: Yes.
FERGUSON: I like that they did it that way.
BEHAR: So you didn`t get a lot of hate mail and people saying what`s up with these two?
FERGUSON: No, no. And I -- I again, I`m so shocked and pleasantly surprised --
BEHAR: That`s nice.
FERGUSON: -- that we haven`t. Yes.
BEHAR: That`s very good. I think that the show has really sort of taught people in America what a family is really like no matter who you are and what you -- what your orientation is, et cetera.
FERGUSON: I hope so. And it does it in an entertaining way which is always a plus.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right. I mean, we we`re talking about you being bullied as a kid.
FERGUSON: Yes.
BEHAR: So what did they use to do? Because I was bullied, too, but I was just weird.
FERGUSON: Right.
BEHAR: I used to just dress funny.
FERGUSON: She`s weird. Get her.
BEHAR: Yes. What did they do to you?
FERGUSON: It was mostly name-calling but like really horrible names, the f-bombs thrown at me a few times. And just -- yes, I was pushed and -- and things were, you know, I`ve had backpacks pulled off of me. And they just kicked around a little bit. I mean --
BEHAR: Did you fight back?
FERGUSON: One time I got really -- in high school, I was like I`ve had enough.
BEHAR: Right.
FERGUSON: But yes, it`s -- I -- I was also really shy and really quiet -- and I know this is going to shock you -- but not very strong. But now I got these guns.
BEHAR: Yes.
FERGUSON: But yes, it was --
BEHAR: Sometimes I think a lot of gay guys are in the gym a lot and building up because they were bullied as kids.
FERGUSON: Yes. They`re like, next time, I`m going to get them next time. That`s what it is.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll have more with "Modern Family`s" Jesse Tyler Ferguson in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "Modern Family`s" Jesse Tyler Ferguson. People want to -- they tweeted some questions, you know. They wanted to know is your character, are you like that character?
FERGUSON: I think I have elements of him in me. I`m not quite as serious. I find people who take themselves really seriously to be hilarious. So I do find (INAUDIBLE) -- but I think I`m not quite so uptight, yes.
BEHAR: Like a kid really. You know when a kid is like, I really want my -- I want those pierced ears. And you start laughing because they`re like 6 years old and they`re having a tantrum. It`s funny.
FERGUSON: I remember when I was a kid, I got into an argument with my mom and dad and I like ran to my room. It was like I`m going to my room because the only friends I have are stuffed and are on my bed. And they laughed and I got so mad at them.
BEHAR: Guess what? We have from Australia, Eric Stonestreet on the phone.
FERGUSON: Are you serious?
BEHAR: He`s calling you.
FERGUSON: Oh, my God.
BEHAR: Are you there, Eric?
ERIC STONESTREET, "MODERN FAMILY": Hi.
FERGUSON: Hi, baby.
STONESTREET: How are you?
FERGUSON: Good.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Eric -- sorry. Jesse told us a little bit about you and working with you. Now spill some dirt on him.
STONESTREET: Oh, we love each other. What did he say about me, Joy?
BEHAR: He said that you`re a closet case. No, no, he didn`t say that.
STONESTREET: He`s a closeted straight man, if I`m a closeted gay man.
FERGUSON: That`s true.
BEHAR: Did he give you any tip on how to play a gay character, Eric?
STONESTREET: No. Not really. I would bounce things off of him and ask him, I`m always worried about offending people or doing something wrong. He`ll tell you that I`m always nervous. Jesse, Australia is not the same without you. I wish you were done here with me.
FERGUSON: I wish I was there too.
BEHAR: What are you doing there, anyway?
FERGUSON: Apparently, we`re very famous there.
STONESTREET: I`m doing publicity for the show, doing publicity for the show. And Jesse has some time, some commitments that he couldn`t make it. But everybody loves this and I can report that we are well known down here, which is exciting.
FERGUSON: That`s exciting.
BEHAR: And you know the Australians have a great sense of humor.
FERGUSON: I think so.
(CROSSTALK)
STONESTREET: Yes, it`s big news down here about a football player doing something with an animal. And they don`t think that`s very funny.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok. Eric, thanks so much for calling us.
FERGUSON: Bye Eric.
BEHAR: Bye.
STONESTREET: Bye, Joy. Bye, Jesse. Bye, Bibi.
BEHAR: What did he call you?
FERGUSON: Bibi.
BEHAR: What is this? A little pet name?
FERGUSON: You know when Jessica Simpson when she had her show and she was always playing, Beanie, Minnie, Bibi, Baby, no, Baby. Kind of like that. So annoying.
BEHAR: Now, what about the twins who play your daughter Lily on the show. Someone wants to know on Twitter, are you giving these kids sedatives because they always look drowsy.
FERGUSON: I know. It`s so true. One time I came on the set, I was like, did you slip them something back there and is that legal? They`re just -- and they`re very happy with their parents. I don`t know. I think they know that they`re in a mode, that they`re like -- they`re acting.
BEHAR: How old are those kids?
FERGUSON: 2 years, 4 months or something.
BEHAR: Yes. You have to use twins because you trade them around.
FERGUSON: You got to switch them out.
BEHAR: Who would know if you use one twin more than the other, though?
FERGUSON: One of them hasn`t been working with me. I think that was like, you take this scene. I`m tired. I have to go make poopy now. You take the scene.
BEHAR: It`s such fun to talk to you.
FERGUSON: I love it.
BEHAR: I have to go.
FERGUSON: No.
BEHAR: I do. I know.
FERGUSON: It`s devastating.
BEHAR: It`s television. "Modern Family" airs Wednesdays at 9:00 p.m. on ABC. We`ll be back in a minute.
I know they love this show. They`ll watch every week.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Rachel Uchitel comes clean about her affair with Tiger Woods and blames it all on an addiction to love.
And the fed`s auction of super crook, Bernie Madoff`s belongings, including 11 pairs of underpants. Now back to Joy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ew.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: As their custody war rages on, Mel Gibson still denies punching baby mama Oksana Grigorieva but does admit slapping her because he said she was hysterical and endangering their baby daughter. With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news, our Anthony Cumia, co- host of the "Opie and Anthony Show" on Sirius XM radio, Dr. Lillian Glass, psychologist and author of "Toxic Men." That`s a good title, and Rob Shuter, AOL`s Popeater columnist.
OK. In a sworn declaration, here`s what Mel Gibson has said. "I slapped Oksana -- quote/unquote, "I slapped Oksana one time with an open hand in an attempt to bring her back to reality. I did not slap her hard. I was just trying to shock her so that she would stop screaming, continuing shaking Lucia back and forth. I did not hit Oksana with a closed fist, as she alleged."
OK. Slapping and hitting, what he did was with enough force to allegedly knock a veneer off of her tooth. OK. Is he just parsing words here, Rob?
ROB SHUTER, AOL`S POPEATER COLUMNIST: Yes, I think so. Originally, he didn`t say anything, but originally, his people said that none of this happened. That it was all make believe. So, slowly, the dripping tap has started to drip. And I think, piece by piece, he`s getting nearer to what the truth is.
BEHAR: Aha. What do you, guys, think about that?
ANTHONY CUMIA, "THE OPIE AND ANTHONY SHOW" ON SIRIUS XM: I`m amazed. Who thought Mel Gibson was crazy? Wow. I was shocked when this statement came out. Hitting a woman? My god. After those love messages he left?
BEHAR: I know. It`s --
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: Yes, he`s crazy. When are we going to -- is this supposed to make people to -- he did hit her. Wow. Yes, he hit her.
BEHAR: He hit her?
CUMIA: Of course.
BEHAR: Yes, go ahead, Dr. Glass
LILLIAN GLASS, PH.D., PSYCHOLOGIST: What amazes me is the excuses. He didn`t hit her, he didn`t punch her, he slapped her. That`s abuse.
BEHAR: Right.
GLASS: He`s the most toxic man out there.
BEHAR: Right. Is he like the top of your list --
GLASS: He`s number one.
BEHAR: Of toxic men?
GLASS: He`s number one. He won the contest.
BEHAR: He is. But he says that she was flinging the baby around, and he didn`t want to do this, you know, the shaken baby syndrome.
GLASS: Then he should have grabbed the baby and held it, not hit her.
BEHAR: Also, what`s wrong (ph) with calling 911?
GLASS: Yes.
BEHAR: How about calling the cops?
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: But I think what this proves is why he didn`t want anybody to ever hear this testimony. He wanted this case to be closed. He didn`t want the press to ever hear it because he cannot win this. Once this information gets out there, it`s really damaging.
BEHAR: But how many people carry it against Oksana in this story. They said she was a gold digger as if that has anything to do with being hit. It`s really not the point.
CUMIA: Obviously, he was just trying to save the baby by hitting her holding the baby.
BEHAR: I know, exactly.
GLASS: What we`ve seen is a lethal combination. The two of them together are like dynamite. They have no business (ph) to be together.
BEHAR: Co-dependent.
GLASS: Absolutely.
BEHAR: OK. Moving on, Rachel Uchitel, the first mistress to be named of Tiger Wood`s sex scandal is finally speaking out saying she regrets sleeping with a married man. Notice, she didn`t say a married rich man. She left the one adjective out. OK. He reportedly paid her, Tiger, paid her $10 million for her silence. So, what part of the word "silence" doesn`t she get?
SHUTER: She got paid for this interview. So "The Mail" in Britain, I think, paid her about $10,000 for this which is nothing compared to 10 million.
BEHAR: Really?
SHUTER: Also, I think she assumed foolishly that if she did an interview in Britain, we would never hear about it here in the U.S.?
BEHAR: Is she kidding? Everybody hears about everything.
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: It`s a whole ocean away.
(LAUGHTER)
SHUTER: But she clearly doesn`t make good choices. I think this is another example of a terrible choice.
BEHAR: Now, she says, Dr. Glass, she revealed that she lost her fiance in 9/11. And as a result of that, she has become a love addict who basically fell into a series of bad relationships. What do you make of that?
GLASS: Ridiculous. A lot of people lost their loved ones. And everybody is a love addict. We all want love. This is an excuse. Her going into rehab is an excuse. It`s all PR spin. It`s unconscionable. This is a woman who has no integrity. And now, she has no integrity, she said she`d be silent and she`s not.
BEHAR: OK. Hush money is not enough, 10 million.
SHUTER: She`s saying that line like she really needs to shut up. And now, she keeps talking, she`s going to lose --
CUMIA: I hope she does. She shouldn`t have gotten paid in first place. The idea of getting paid for having sexual contact with somebody, whether it`s a settlement or saying, you know, hey, what do you want for a hundred bucks, to me, reeks of prostitution in some way of shape or form.
BEHAR: No. She says that she was somebody who introduced women to him.
CUMIA: Oh, then I`m wrong.
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: That has nothing to do with taking money for sex, no, no.
BEHAR: She had applied for a private detective license. I think she`d be great of that. She knows how to hunt down a cheating husband better than anybody.
GLASS: But no one would respect her.
BEHAR: Right.
(LAUGHTER)
GLASS: But, you know, when you look at the definition of what is a whore in the dictionary, it says that somebody is a whore if they compromise their integrity for their own personal gain.
CUMIA: I`m a whore?
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: Geez.
BEHAR: We`re all whores. We`re media whores. (INAUDIBLE), right? OK. All right. Next up, two of Jon and Kate Gosselin`s 6-year-old kids have been expelled from a private school in Pennsylvania, reportedly for rage issues. Gee, I wonder why, and are now being home schooled. OK. Colin and Alexis were reportedly violent and bullying other kids. I think that`s called acting out?
GLASS: Exactly. And also, it`s no surprise. These were the two children in "Jon & Kate Plus 8" if you watch the show. Kate called little Alexis the wild child. Little Colin was the one that bullied all the other brothers and sisters.
BEHAR: Right. Right.
GLASS: And they`re surprised? And they`re home schooling these children?
BEHAR: Yes.
GLASS: Unacceptable.
BEHAR: And only those two are going to be home schooled. The other kids are -- see, I say bring the whole bunch of them to home school. Like a little classroom --
GLASS: But who`s the teacher?
BEHAR: I don`t know who the teacher is. I mean, do you think that they were taunting little Colin and Alexis by saying, your mother can`t dance!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you think? She was like she`s avoiding land mines on "Dancing with the Stars." What do you think? Now, the kids are still starring in new episodes of "Kate Plus 8," should they stop filming the show, Anthony?
CUMIA: I think, and believe me, I don`t care much about kids. I don`t have any. They`re cute, and you give them a shucka-shucka (ph) under the chin, and it`s great and then they go away, but this exploitation. I really do think this is an exploitation.
BEHAR: OK. For those women out there who are looking for a husband - -
CUMIA: I ain`t it. Believe me.
BEHAR: It ain`t him.
CUMIA: Eight hundred is on the list, having kids with the likes of me, but it is exploitation. I think they suffer from parents are media whore syndrome. I`m sure there`s an acronym for it.
BEHAR: There probably is.
CUMIA: But, you know, obviously, chips off the old block. I mean, if they`re exposed to that kind of attention that these two have shown over the years in such a public form, why aren`t they going to act out in school.
BEHAR: They`re going to be crazy, right?
GLASS: It`s dangerous.
BEHAR: But Jon Gosselin had tried to get the kids off the TV. He`s becoming like father knows best.
(CROSSTALK)
GLASS: He did the right thing. Joy, this is only going to get worse.
BEHAR: Yes.
GLASS: This is only going to get worse. It`s scary. They need help.
BEHAR: OK. Finally, an airline passenger in San Diego created a scene when he refused a body scan and wouldn`t let a TSA agent pat him down. You know, I don`t have a problem with the pat down, but I draw the line when the agent lowers the lights and sings "Moon River."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Listen to this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re not comfortable with that, we can escort you back out and you don`t have to fly today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand how a sexual assault can be made a condition of my flying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not considered a sexual assault --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be if you weren`t the government.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is considered an administrative search, and we are authorized to do it. You have submitted yourself to it by coming through the checkpoint.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you enjoy being touched by other people, that`s fine. I like only my wife and maybe my doctor touch me there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Anthony, would you like someone pat you in the crock at the airport?
CUMIA: Airport bathroom, anywhere.
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: A rest stop on the turnpike.
(LAUGHTER)
CUMIA: This guy`s being hail a hero for standing up to this, but I see it the other way. Go through the detector -- a lot of people think much too much of themselves. No one`s trading your pictures of your security cam on the internet. Most people are not that attractive. We`re not looking at your thing. And I`m standing there with my shoes off, my laptop out of my bag, go! I`m a busy man. I have things to do.
BEHAR: OK. Now, Rob, he was willing to walk through the metal detector, but the TSA has insisted on more. So you think they`ve gone too far with the security measures or -- listen, as far as I`m concerned, they can strip me right in the airport, as far as I`m concerned/
SHUTER: I think I`m with you.
BEHAR: In fact, I would enjoy that. I mean, I don`t care. I just want to be safe on the damn airplane.
CUMIA: If it was the day after 9/11, people would be crucifying this guy. Get on the plane, shut up!
SHUTER: The fellow who evacuated the slide was a hero for a little while.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: It could be him talking.
GLASS: But I think they`re missing the whole point. I think they`re missing the entire point.
BEHAR: Which is?
GLASS: Body language analysis. Being a body language expert, you`ve got to look at certain signs and tells, and those are the people that you screen and look at their genitals and see what they`ve hidden in there.
(CROSSTALK)
GLASS: It`s not racial profiling, not at all, but it is appropriate behavior, because if you --
CUMIA: That`s attractive girl profiling.
(LAUGHTER)
GLASS: But if you see somebody that has certain tells, that has certain signs that they may show nervousness, a lot of people that do hide these explosives in their private parts and their breasts, they pat them down. Yes, there are certain things. They`re patting themselves --
BEHAR: About a guy who actually they could put -- this is rather gross, but you could actually put an explosive in your rectum.
GLASS: It`s true.
CUMIA: What are you reading?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, I`m reading that (INAUDIBLE) "New York Times". Thanks, guys.
And a quick note, tomorrow is the one-year anniversary of Rob Shuter`s naughty but nice column at Poppy. Congratulations, Rob. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She`s a former mayor, governor and VP candidate, but currently, Sarah Palin is a reality star. "Sarah Palin`s Alaska" debut last night on TLC. I kind of liked it. I hope she doesn`t quite halfway through. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SARAH PALIN, FORMER GOVERNOR OF ALASKA: I love watching these mama bears. They`ve got a nature, yes, that humankind can learn from. She`s trying to show her cubs. Nobody`s going to do it for you. You get out there and do it yourself, guys.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. The episode brought in almost 5 million viewers. Here now to discuss the show are Bill Press, radio talk show host and author of "Toxic Talk" plus Dana Loesch, editor of bigjournalism.com and radio host on KFTK 97.1 FM.
Bill, what do you think her motivation is to do this kind of a show besides the fact that it`s going to make some nice cash for her?
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: You know, one thing about Sarah Palin, not only can she see Russia from her front porch, I think she can see the White House from her front porch.
BEHAR: I can think that, too.
PRESS: I don`t think there`s any doubt about it. I mean, look, you know what`s brilliant about this? She`s figured out a way to have cable television promote and fund her presidential campaign.
BEHAR: Why not just go on Fox?
PRESS: Well, Fox is paying her what? $5 million a year, whatever it is. And now, TLC is paying her a million dollars an episode?
BEHAR: Well, yes.
PRESS: I mean, this is incredible. Everybody else --
BEHAR: I don`t know if they`re paying her a million. The episode is costing --
PRESS: You know, like Mike Huckabee, eat your heart out, baby, and she`s got cable.
BEHAR: He`s not as pretty. What can you do? Dana, do you think that she can go from reality star to president?
DANA LOESCH, BIGJOURNALISM.COM: I don`t know. My whole concern is that she may be given to overexposure, but at the same time, we have at least kind of a year before we have to start seriously getting involved in campaigning and talking about presidential stuff for 2012. I think it`s a really ingenious idea of keeping her name in the press and keeping her there in pop culture without having to be a total politico.
So, I don`t know whether or not she can use this as a springboard to the White House, pop culture or politics are down string from pop culture, so, we`ll see.
PRESS: But you know today, celebrityhood is kind of what matters. But also, the idea that this wasn`t political, I mean, so, you know, she`s fishing and she`s talking about capital gains taxes, right? I mean, she`s like rock climbing and she`s talking about same-sex marriage, you know? And she`s talking about her neighbor, and she talks about immigration reform building a fence. I mean, she worked it all in.
BEHAR: She does.
PRESS: Very, very clever. I tell you.
BEHAR: Is it brilliant, Dana? You think it`s brilliant?
LOESCH: I think it`s really -- I think it`s a very smooth idea. Smooth operator, yes, definitely.
BEHAR: Do you think that she will -- if she decides to run for president, will she ever submit herself to talking on show like this or going on "Meet The Press" where people just ask her questions, and she has to actually answer policy questions? Is that ever going to happen?
LOESCH: Oh, yes. I think she could. I think she definitely -- I think she could and I think she should because I think -- you know what, it`s really easy to go and preach to the choir. The difficult thing is to go where you know that they`re not going to throw softballs at you and to sit down and talk serious policy because that`s where you have a chance of winning people over.
PRESS: Well, she tried that, of course. And when she comes on your show, I want you to ask her what magazines she reads.
BEHAR: Oh, I know. Forget about it.
LOESCH: Oh, come on. She uses real life to make her world view.
PRESS: We thought she was going to go back to Alaska and study the issues and be a good governor and really get into some substantive stuff. She hasn`t. I`m not saying she has to, but she hasn`t.
LOESCH: I think she has. I think she totally has. She just spoke about the quantitative easing and some of the remarks she made about that were more so than some of the other candidates --
PRESS: It was a 25-word tweet. That hardly covers.
LOESCH: No, she wrote an entire essay about it on Facebook. She wrote an entire essay about --
BEHAR: Oh, an entire essay. Wow.
PRESS: I read about it in "The Wall Street Journal."
BEHAR: By the way, her approval ratings are dropping faster than my boobs, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
PRESS: And that`s fast.
BEHAR: You bet your bippy, honey. Some tea partiers, I love this story, too. Dana was a tea party person. They`ve written a letter to Republican leader, John Boehner, urging the GOP to keep social issues off the agenda. It reads in part, "this election was not a mandate for the Republican Party nor was it a mandate to act on any social issue resist the urge to run down any social issue rabbit holes in order to apiece the special interests." OK. Are they right?
PRESS: You know what? I think they`re schizophrenic, right? Four days before this, there`s another letter allegedly from tea party leaders including at least that said we want to be sure to Republican leaders, we want to be sure that you stress the traditional moral values. So, if you go down to like Ralph Reed in the south where most of the tea partiers are, they`re saying same-sex marriage, abortion, there are the issues.
These guys are saying, no (INAUDIBLE) to smaller government. So, I don`t think there really is a tea party because a lot of people running around there saying, I`m Mr. Tea Party, and nobody is.
BEHAR: But Dana, what part of the tea party are you from?
LOESCH: I`m just a regular, average, everyday person. See, this is - - it`s a good thing and it can also be a bad thing about the movement and that it really is a big tent movement. There are a lot of different sorts of conservatives.
BEHAR: But what kind are you? What kind are you?
LOESCH: I am sort of a conservatarian. I don`t identify with any party. Period.
BEHAR: Do you care about social issues or fiscal issues?
LOESCH: I care about social issues, too, but here`s the thing. I`m more concern right now with what`s going to happen to the economy after the first of the year. I`m curious as to whether Congress is going to get their -- stop sitting on their hands and actually do something about like the tax cuts, what are they going to do about employment, what are they going to do about all the health care infighting? That`s what I want to see --
BEHAR: Are you for extending the Bush tax cuts indefinitely?
LOESCH: Oh, yes, absolutely.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
LOESCH: I`m not about the state controlling the output of people.
PRESS: For the record, I`m not about giving millionaires and multimillionaires a tax cut. By the way, I`m a tea party member.
LOESCH: You`re not giving them a tax cut. It`s their money. Yes, it is. It`s their money.
PRESS: I`m a member of the herbal tea party.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: There`s supposed to be regular people in the tea party, yet, they care so much about rich people.
PRESS: There`s 2,300 different tea parties. They don`t know what they`re doing.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you, Dana, for this and thank you, Bill. We`ll be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Underwear, slippers and pajamas, oh my, just some of the more intimate personal belongings of the Ponzi schemer, Bernie Madoff, that were auctioned off this weekend. The sale netted $2 million for his victims. Here now to talk about this and a couple other things is Christine Romans, host of CNN`s "Your Money" and author of "Smart is the New Rich." Hi, Christine. I like that title.
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: Well, thank you.
BEHAR: "Smart is the New Rich," but let`s talk about Madoff for a second. First of all, who bought the boxer shorts?
ROMANS: Oh, this is fascinating.
BEHAR: And why?
ROMANS: He doesn`t want to be known why he bought the boxer shorts. I`m told they were never worn. They were in the package.
BEHAR: Would you believe that?
ROMANS: And you`re looking right now at pictures of BLM. Those were his velvet slippers. Those one for $6,000. I`m told collectors like to get these things because the providence maybe somewhere down the road, there`s notoriety, they`re going to be able to resell it, but yes, Bernie`s clean boxers. I think --
BEHAR: Well, I guess, like if you`re having a party --
ROMANS: Maybe.
BEHAR: And you just whip out the boxers and say, guess who these are from? I mean, it`s kind of a conversation starter.
ROMANS: And the socks, somebody paid $1,700, I think, for his socks, these silk socks. I guess, what`s the point? But some people wanted to have something that was Bernie Madoff.
BEHAR: Well, now, he swindled his victims out of 50 billion --
ROMANS: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: 50 --
ROMANS: With a B.
BEHAR: $50 billion. OK? They`ve gotten back 1.5 billion. I`m amazed they got that back. How much will they really get back at the end of the day? This is a drop in the bucket.
ROMANS: You know it is, and there`s one more auction. Next spring, there`s an auction in Florida for the stuff they get out of his Palm Beach mansion. This is the stuff that was in his Montauk house and his east side penthouse here. $2 million here, $900,000 on the other auction. You know, they`re not going to get anywhere close to what he said. He said he had $55 (ph) billion. You never going to get it all back.
BEHAR: I mean, $50 billion.
ROMANS: I know. A lot of people thought they were worth a lot more than they really were because he was giving, you know, give (INAUDIBLE) along the way and there was really no money left.
BEHAR: There was nothing there.
ROMANS: No.
BEHAR: But people should at least get their principal back. There maybe not the paper money, but the principal.
ROMANS: Some people might not even get all the principal.
BEHAR: They might not even get that.
ROMANS: He was spending like a drunken sailor. I mean, he had art, he had boats, he had houses and he was spending all their money.
BEHAR: Too much of a good thing, right? Now, your book is terrific.
ROMANS: Thanks.
BEHAR: Didn`t it inspire you to write this book of Bernie Madoff thing?
ROMANS: The Madoff thing was an interesting point, because there was a turning point in December of 2008 when the whole world was falling apart, Joy. We knew it was going down. We were trying to figure out what CDOs were. People were losing all of their, you know, 25 percent of their 401(k). You could understand Madoff.
Madoff is just a guy who stole money. You could understand that. You couldn`t understand the whole crisis. And that`s when I started taking what I was learning in the crisis and trying to apply it to people`s money. The only thing you can control, Joy, is what`s going out of your own hands.
BEHAR: That`s right.
ROMANS: What you`re digging in your pocket and spend.
BEHAR: So, if someone was out of control with spending and debt besides saying stop it, what other advice would you give them?
ROMANS: Well, I always say look at money like nutrition. Like we know what it takes to be skinny, right? Then, how come we`re not all skinny? It`s because it`s easier to say, eat less, you know, and exercise more. The same thing with money. It`s easy to get in debt. It`s easy to spend more than you`re worth. I mean, I say you have to live at least 10 percent below your means to be safe.
BEHAR: Ten percent below your means.
ROMANS: And I`ll tell you, billionaires live a lot below that and millionaires live --
BEHAR: Because they don`t need --
ROMANS: True.
BEHAR: Most millionaires don`t need that. I don`t understand people who need billions of dollars.
ROMANS: True, but a lot of --
BEHAR: How many boats do you need? How many houses do you have to have?
ROMANS: You know, there are a lot of really successful people who live below their means. Bernie Madoff, for example, did not live below his means.
BEHAR: No.
ROMANS: He had a look all about them all the time, but he was doing that on other people.
BEHAR: He was P.T. Barnam, you know, the sucker born every minute.
ROMANS: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, thank you very much for coming by.
ROMANS: Sure.
BEHAR: And good luck with your book.
ROMANS: Thank you.
BEHAR: Thank you all for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
