Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Royal Wedding; Eva Longoria`s Divorce Drama; A New Tiger Woods?
Aired November 19, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: A man in Wisconsin blasted his TV set with a shotgun while watching Bristol Palin on "Dancing with the Stars". You know, I knew Michael Bolton was angry about being kicked off but this was a little over the top. Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW Bristol and pistols. Outrage over "Dancing with the Stars" finalist Bristol Palin causes one man to shoot his TV leading to an all night standoff with a SWAT team.
Join Joy and her team as they discuss that and other hot stories from the week.
Then more American women than ever are deciding not to have children but is there a stigma? Joy talks to three women who are childless by choice.
Plus the hilarious Joan Cusack chats with joy about some of her classic roles and her new show.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Prince William and Kate Middleton finally got engaged. The girl waited eight years for the guy to propose. The pair revealed the moment that he popped the question to a waiting world. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATE MIDDLETON, PRINCE WILLIAM`S FIANCEE: We had a wonderful holiday in Africa and it was out there. It was very romantic. It was very personal.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did you get down on one knee?
PRINCE WILLIAM, UNITED KINGDOM: That`s going to stay a secret, Peter.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to talk about royal love and other stories from the week are Cojo, Entertainment Tonight`s style guru; comedienne, Bernedette Pauly; Joe Levy, editor-in-chief at "Maxim".
Bernedette, they called her "Waity Katie". Would you wait that long for a guy?
BERNEDETTE PAULY, COMEDIAN: Would I wait that long for a guy? You`re asking the wrong girl. I never wanted to be married but now I am married. So I guess if he had that much money attached to him I would. It`s worth it. And he is 401(k).
BEHAR: Exactly.
PAULY: And you know what`s great? She worked at top shop.
BEHAR: Did she really? What is that?
PAULY: That`s like the equivalent of like The Gap or H & M over there and like one year you`re working at top shop and then you`re living in a castle with the prince. It`s amazing. And she didn`t even have to do a reality TV show and degrade herself for it.
BEHAR: Well, she slept with him for eight years though. Cojo?
COJO, STYLE GURU, ENTERTAINMENT TONIGHT: Is that a bad thing?
BEHAR: I`m just saying. I`m just saying. I mean, I don`t know.
PAULY: He is good looking. I wouldn`t mind sleeping with him.
BEHAR: Yes. He`s all right. He looks more like his father than his mother and that`s tragic. I`m sorry. It`s true. I`m sorry.
COJO: True. Absolutely.
BEHAR: You know? Some reports are saying that Kate`s mother pushed her to go to the school that he was at St. Andrew`s to meet him. Sneaky.
COJO: Brilliant not sneaky. My mother would do the same thing with my sister. She would sell my sister for a camel.
I mean you have to manipulate love. This is modern love.
But I have a question for the panel because I`m really confused and I`m upset when I don`t have knowledge. Is she a virgin?
BEHAR: No.
COJO: She is not supposed to be a virgin? She is marrying a prince? I thought those were the rules.
BEHAR: Prince Charles said they`ve been practicing a long time. Joe, what do you make of that?
JOE LEVY, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, "MAXIM": I`m all for practice. I practice from like 13 to -- I still practice.
BEHAR: See? You need a lot of practice sometimes.
LEVY: I did. It`s a lot of practice and it`s working. I can only say that, is it ok for us to -- can we opt out as America? Like didn`t we like move away like a couple hundred years ago? Can we just get out of this?
BEHAR: No. We`re entranced by this. We can`t get out of it. It`s all the countries that speak English that are interested.
LEVY: All the countries that speak English are interested.
BEHAR: Yes. Australia is interested. Canada.
COJO: People love a romance. And they love the pageantry. And they want to see the gown and that is all the designers are talking about and how fresh she is and how amazing and how charming she is.
I think she is lovely. I think she`s a little horsey but she has potential. I want to make her over.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: You think she`s a little horsey. Wait a minute.
COJO: Inbred. I`ve always believed that. They`re equestrian people. They sleep with horses. We all know that. I will debate you.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. I have to jump in here because she is actually a commoner. She`s not from -- she`s not from a royal blood line.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
LEVY: And I mean compared to not just most royals but a lot of British girls, she`s hot.
COJO: Well, you put naked women on the cover of magazines.
LEVY: I do.
COJO: So we come from a completely different place.
PAULY: I just love her because she worked at The Gap. She had a job.
BEHAR: She worked at The Gap. So that`s all she need for you Bernedette. That she`s at The Gap.
PAULY: Yes. She worked for a living and I like it.
BEHAR: Ok. What about the fact that he gave her Diana`s engagement ring and if they get married they might do it in Westminster Abbey where Diana --
LEVY: Wait, wait, wait. They might do it in Westminster Abbey?
BEHAR: Do the wedding. They might have the wedding at Westminster Abbey where Diana had the -- they had the final, you know, departure for Diana. So it`s kind of weird isn`t it she has to wear the ring? It`s like, you know, the next thing you know he`ll be calling her Diana.
COJO: The ghost of Diana will appear.
BEHAR: It`s weird.
COJO: I think it`s absolutely beautiful. He is so connected to his mother that I think it`s the most romantic story.
PAULY: But it`s such pressure. Like you`re wearing her ring.
(CROSSTALK)
COJO: I have a lot of issues. We know that.
PAULY: She was beloved by the whole world.
BEHAR: You have mother issues.
COJO: I have. Maybe I do.
PAULY: She can`t mess up wearing that ring. Like Fergie caught in that sting. You can`t do that. You can`t be drug dealing in a back alley with Princess Di`s ring on. It`s just never going to happen.
BEHAR: The mother does not like Fergie and did not like Diana. Now, what chance is this girl going to have? Apparently she doesn`t like any of the in-laws, the girls that come in.
LEVY: Wait, wait which --
BEHAR: The queen.
LEVY: Oh, ok.
BEHAR: Who is the mother. Who else is the mother?
LEVY: I don`t know. I thought maybe you meant her mom.
BEHAR: We`re not talking about Cojo`s mother?
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: We were just talking about his mom earlier. And apparently a camel will get you a sister.
COJO: Yes. My sister is for sale. Everybody knows that.
LEVY: I just want to say I know where to get camels and I`m in. I`m in. I`m going to call your mom.
You know, apparently the spin in the British press is that he waited eight years because he wanted to be absolutely certain, he wanted to do it right. He didn`t want to be pushed into marriage. He didn`t want an arranged marriage, a Princess Di/Charles thing.
BEHAR: You don`t think this is going to happen -- isn`t she chosen? Come on. Let`s get real.
LEVY: You mean have people around him in the royal family and their handlers approved?
BEHAR: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
PAULY: Well, maybe not as chosen because look at what happened with the father. He didn`t want to be married to Diana and that was pretty miserable so maybe they gave -- the father gave them that much more leeway.
BEHAR: I don`t know. I think that -- you know, form trumps everything with royals.
LEVY: Yes. I think after eight years if they didn`t want her they would have found a way to make life so miserable.
(CROSSTALK)
COJO: They would have killed her.
BEHAR: That`s right. They would have killed her.
COJO: In a car. I don`t want to start rumors or something.
BEHAR: Don`t start with that.
COJO: In Paris.
BEHAR: What do you think about her as a fashion icon Cojo?
COJO: I was kidding before about her being a horse and I apologize. I want to get into England with a visa.
BEHAR: She is very fresh.
COJO: She is very fresh. She is not overdone. She has a clean, modern look. I call her very modern girl. Diana was more innocent and old fashioned. She is a thoroughly contemporary 2010 girl.
BEHAR: I thought you were going to say she is a thoroughbred and I was going to smack you.
COJO: You got mad at me so I moved on from thoroughbreds. Now I`ve moved on to hamsters or poodles or something.
BEHAR: All right. Let`s go to -- and also, you know, let`s just point out this is good for business. The memorabilia is already being shipped out --
COJO: Of course.
BEHAR: -- to all of the shops.
Now, when Bristol Palin was voted into the finals of "Dancing with the Stars" this week a Wisconsin man shot his television in disgust. If Sarah Palin gets voted in the White House heaven help the cable box and the TIVO. All right.
So the episode actually led to an all night standoff with the SWAT Team.
LEVY: With that episode of "Dancing with the Stars"?
BEHAR: No, the guy shooting the TV.
LEVY: Oh, the guy shooting the TV.
BEHAR: Which by the way, I don`t know if you`re old enough to remember that Elvis Presley actually shot the TV when Bob Goulet was singing. You remember Bob Goulet?
LEVY: I do remember Bob Goulet. I used to have a duo act with him. Yes, I would sing and he would dance. Yes I remember Robert Goulet.
BEHAR: Ok. I opened for Bob Goulet. I did. There you have it.
But anyway, this is not new. To shoot the television set.
LEVY: Right.
PAULY: I don`t blame him. I feel the same way. That`s why I don`t have a gun because I would use it.
BEHAR: Against?
PAULY: The television if Bristol Palin, you know, didn`t he say something like politics or something and he went up and got the gun and how terrible.
BEHAR: And he said that a political figure`s daughter was dancing on TV and he thought that she was talentless and that annoyed him.
PAULY: Exactly. I would do the same exact thing.
COJO: I would take an Uzi to "Sister Wives". Do you know that show?
BEHAR: Yes.
COJO: On TLC? I would take an Uzi to that. I would take a machine gun.
BEHAR: Those girls are so happy I had them here -- they are so happy to be sleeping with this guy. Now you do it. Now you do it. Now you do it. That`s where they`re at.
COJO: It`s like a time share. God bless them. If they`re happy that`s all I care about.
BEHAR: Ok. Now let`s talk about the mother a little bit, Sarah.
COJO: Yes.
BEHAR: Which I know will get letters because, you know, people are out there. They`re like voting and writing every time you mention her name. You`re supposed to be madly in love with her.
COJO: Yes.
BEHAR: Or they have a fit. We`re not madly in love with her. She wrote a book recently and she has the nerve in the book to say that "American Idol" has talent deprived contestants and that, in her new book. Do you think she wrote that book before her daughter was on "Dancing with the Stars"?
COJO: Yes. I do. I mean some people think it`s just a big mastermind evil plan. I don`t know about that. But I can tell you that I interviewed Bristol Palin and it was like speaking to a dignitary. I mean it was the deepest person I`ve ever met in my life. She has a solid grade three education.
What I will tell you about Bristol, to her credit was that she was very honest about herself. I said, are you in the Hollywood scene? Are you doing coke with starlets and dancers like everybody does every Friday night? And she said I`m just a country girl. I know nothing about Hollywood.
So I give it to her for her candor. At least she knows she`s kind of an idiot. Does that make any sense?
PAULY: But she`s -- I hate it when they did this whole, I`m a normal person thing. They`re about as representative of normal people as I am of the Samoan wrestler. They`re not normal, average people.
BEHAR: You know, I was thinking you look just like a Samoan wrestler --
LEVY: I happen to watch more Samoan wrestling -- put that on my list. That`s going to be hot.
BEHAR: What do you think about this conspiracy idea that the Tea Partiers are voting for this?
LEVY: Oh, the voting -- they figured out some way to actually -- yes. That, how could that not be? Obviously, listen. Supposedly, I read up on this. You only get five votes from your phone and five votes from your computer.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: But, you know, even I can rig a computer.
BEHAR: That`s ten. That`s ten votes.
LEVY: You can rig your computer.
BEHAR: How many Tea Partiers are there out there?
LEVY: I don`t know. It`s like ten?
PAULY: There are 15 and they`re pretending that there are 20 million.
BEHAR: Exactly.
(CROSSTALK)
PAULY: Tea Party people --
LEVY: Ladies first.
PAULY: Thank you. Tea party people are the ones who would rig a vote because they are the ones that get very side tracked by bread and circus. And they`re the ones that -- you know, they get side tracked very easily and take these things very seriously. That`s why they`re all so upset about gays getting married. It`s like who cares? Get your own thing going on.
BEHAR: Exactly.
COJO: We don`t want to get married, by the way. I want to tell the whole country FYI.
BEHAR: Well, you don`t.
COJO: Oh, sorry. I thought I was speaking for an entire population of West Hollywood 30,000 people.
BEHAR: You guys are so fabulous so sit there and we`ll talk some more when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Eva Longoria has filed for divorce from her husband of three years basketball star Tony Parker. Longoria reportedly broke off the marriage after finding hundreds of texts between her husband and his former teammate`s wife.
I`m back with my panel to talk about this. Hundreds of text messages, Joe.
LEVY: Right.
BEHAR: Now, does that mean that he is cheating or is it just --
LEVY: Technically it doesn`t mean he`s cheating. One of his friends has come out in the press and very specifically and watch the wording on this say he never did anything with her. That doesn`t mean he didn`t do anything to himself while reading texts.
BEHAR: That`s right.
LEVY: Or I think the kids call them sexts. Supposedly she was sending pictures not just texts and she didn`t break up this marriage over hundreds of, hey, what you doing? Are you watching "Dancing with the Stars"?
BEHAR: No. Exactly.
LEVY: Voting for Bristol? I`m in. I`m voting for Bristol. Vote for Bristol. I mean that`s not -- that was not 90 of the texts right there.
BEHAR: I have a question for the woman here.
PAULY: Ok.
BEHAR: Cojo.
LEVY: Which one?
PAULY: I lost that game.
BEHAR: You`re back. Ok. Why didn`t he delete them? How stupid is he? Doesn`t he know what happened to Tiger Woods this guy?
PAULY: Yes. That`s exactly -- why did he even allow them to happen after what Tiger Woods had taught us? I think it`s the god complex. I think the women who marry them have a god complex like I am so beautiful, he is not going to cheat on me. And then the men that do this get away with it so often that they just start to think they`re infallible.
BEHAR: Let me ask you something. Why do you think these men cheat on such beautiful women? I know, I have the problem also. It`s an issue. It`s always been a problem my entire life being a goddess.
But I mean, you know, Halle Berry has the problem. Jennifer Aniston, all these girls that are gorgeous. What`s up with that?
COJO: I see that on the red carpet and I interview these women. I think it`s women making bad choices in men and it`s the good old-fashioned rescue complex.
I`ve seen -- I know Eva for years on the red carpet. And it`s an interesting dynamic with those two. She always brings Tony up. She`s so careful about his ego and including him and not overshadowing him. So I really believe that she`s devastated. I don`t think it is PR spin at all. You could see how much she`s in love with him. They once made love in front of me at the Emmys. I mean they are all over each other.
BEHAR: Adorable. Get a room ok.
COJO: They were all over each other.
LEVY: Also, let`s remember you`re talking about a professional athlete here.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: And have you ever -- you`ve been in the room with the professional athletes. Ladies, throw themselves at them.
BEHAR: I know.
COJO: And they`re horny.
LEVY: Especially so.
BEHAR: You know I referred before to opening for Robert Goulet. I also opened for Engelbert Humperdinck. The women throw their brassieres on the stage while he was there. You don`t have to be an athlete to have women going wild for you.
LEVY: Oh, don`t I know it.
PAULY: Well, that`s why I think men become comedians.
COJO: You have an Engelbert Humperdinck hair style, by the way, you could bring him back.
LEVY: I have a lot of things, yes.
BEHAR: She wrote on Twitter, Ms. Longoria, "It is with great sadness that after seven years Tony and I have decided to divorce. We love each other deeply and pray for each other`s happiness." Yada, yada. Do you think that that`s sincere?
COJO: I`m a little cynical.
BEHAR: She is very nice about it. Come on.
COJO: I`m a little cynical because she told Mario Lopez -- she released a statement through him that she confirmed Tony fooled around and that she was devastated. I mean these kind of divorces you don`t talk. You say no comment; you take the high road.
So she is hurt and might be saying one thing but I think the claws are out. That`s what I get.
BEHAR: You know, whenever the next big thing happens to me I`m going to call Mario Lopez.
Moving on, an airline passenger in San Diego created a scene when he refused a body scan and wouldn`t let a TSA agent pat him down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you`re not comfortable with that we can escort you back out and you don`t have to fly today.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t understand how a sexual assault can be made a condition of my flying.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is not considered a sexual assault.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It would be if you weren`t the government.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is considered an administrative search and we are authorized to do it. You have submitted yourself to it by coming through the check.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you enjoy being touched by other people, that`s fine. I`d like only my wife and maybe my doctor to touch me there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Let me ask you, Cojo, would you let them pat you in the crotch or would you pay them to do it?
COJO: I think it`s the hottest thing in the world. To me it`s like the airport equivalent of a prison shower. So from where I`m coming from I embrace it. You know what? My problem is I have the worst luck with my sex life. It would probably be a hairy woman who would do it. If it was a hot TSA guy, bring it on.
BEHAR: How about, is it different for a woman, Bernedette?
PAULY: No. I don`t care. They can pat me up any time they want. I actually go to the airport --
LEVY: If I`d known that in the green room, everything would have been different. Everything would have been different.
BEHAR: Finish your thought.
PAULY: No, I was going to say sometimes I go to the airport and let them feel me up and I`m not even flying. The thing that bothers me with TSA, TSA can feel me up any time. I just don`t like the attitude and the power trips when they`re rude because if you don`t want to be doing their job there are a million other people who like it so move on over.
BEHAR: I`ll say if you won`t get patted, if you won`t get x-rayed stay home. What do you say Joe?
PAULY: Yes.
LEVY: I just don`t understand what all the concern is. You know, to be perfectly honest, through not spending a lot of time lingering there, I get patted down when I go in clubs in New York.
BEHAR: Really? In the crotch?
PAULY: Where are you going?
COJO: Well, were you at Barracuda last night in Chelsea?
LEVY: I was.
COJO: I thought that was you.
LEVY: That was me dancing on stage and you do not tip well, my friend.
COJO: I know, I don`t. I`m cheap.
BEHAR: Ms. Janet Napolitano, who is the homeland security chief. She has asked for cooperation and patience while traveling. This should be a really fun holiday season.
LEVY: Yes. Thanksgiving is going to be great. Thanksgiving is either going to be like one big turn on or a really long, delayed flight.
COJO: I`d like to see you in a TSA uniform. Let`s talk later.
LEVY: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Down, boys. We`re not pimping anybody out here.
Thanks everyone. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Where has the time gone? Thanksgiving will mark a year since Tiger Woods drove his SUV, his career, and his marriage into a tree. But 12 months after the debacle the once-private Woods is opening up on Twitter, on the radio and in "Newsweek" magazine. So what gives? Is Tiger really examining his life or launching a new PR effort?
Here now to discuss this is publicist and brand strategist, Marvet Britto. Ok Marvet.
He just announced he has joined the Twitter world and he -- one of his first tweets was "I think I like this Twitter thing. You guys are awesome."
A little late isn`t it? Everybody is on Twitter.
MARVET BRITTO, PUBLICIST/BRAND STRATEGIST: It`s late but it`s also a departure for Tiger. Tiger`s not someone who really allowed much access and now all of a sudden, he is really becoming this relatable guy.
BEHAR: Right.
BRITTO: So he is shedding the elitist persona that Tiger Woods really built his brand around and now he`s becoming personable, more humble, more relatable.
And really, I`m not surprised because Tiger Woods is the first billion-dollar athlete. He made a billion dollars in endorsements.
BEHAR: A billion.
BRITTO: A billion dollars. And 90 percent of that was in endorsements; 10 percent of that was really what he made on the golf course. He is probably at home during the busiest advertising season not getting any phone calls and thinking, I need to repair my brand. I need to recalibrate and really become likeable because consumers really, corporations leverage brands that have equity. And consumers only relate to individuals and celebrities that they find humble. And people that they can relate to. So brands -- leverage brands that are relatable and Tiger Woods isn`t right now.
BEHAR: Not right this minute. So he needs to reverse that.
But this morning he did an interview with ESPN Radio. Listen to what he said about this past year.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
TIGER WOODS, PROFESSIONAL GOLFER: I`m so much better now because of this past year. Obviously it was very difficult on a lot of people, especially those closest to me, but it`s been the best thing for me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Buy it?
BRITTO: Yes, it is the best thing for him. The best thing for Tiger is to admit that he is in a difficult place and I think we`ve really never heard that from him before.
While he`s owned responsibility, now he is coming forward. The beauty of this is for the first time we see Tiger Woods being proactive instead of reactive. He is coming out first. He is really positioning himself for people to see him in a different light. I think it`s a great step for him.
BEHAR: But he took a big fall. So did Michael Vick.
BRITTO: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Charlie Sheen, I don`t know. Maybe. He is still back on the air.
BRITTO: But the difference with Tiger Woods and Charlie Sheen is that Charlie Sheen`s persona is very much a bad boy image.
BEHAR: That`s right. His was a good --
BRITTO: Tiger Woods was a wholesome image.
BEHAR: What about Michael Vick though? He had a bad rep with the dogs.
BRITTO: He did but Michael Vick also wasn`t the most celebrated global athlete in the world the way that Tiger Woods was. Tiger Woods was in a completely different sphere; again he`s a billion-dollar athlete.
BEHAR: I know. But you think that his game is a little off since the whole scandal? Whereas Michael Vick`s game is up. I even know that.
BRITTO: And a large part of Tiger, like I said the last time I was on your show talking about Tiger`s brand, is that most of this is due to the fact that his A-game hasn`t come back. So Tiger`s play, he has gone from the number one athlete to, what, number 42 in the rankings. It is a big difference. He is not really -- he has very little equity in his brand.
BEHAR: So, if his game doesn`t come back, the tweeting and all of this PR campaigning is not going to matter.
BRITTO: Will not matter -- absolutely.
BEHAR: Right. Ok. Thanks very much Marvet.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Back in a day, a woman`s place was in the home, taking care of the kids, but not any more. More and more women are now choosing not to have kids at all, preferring to sleep through the night and focus on their careers or relationships instead.
With me now to discuss this are Rachel Shukert, author of "Everything Is Going To Be Great," Laura Scott, author of "Two is Enough: A Couple`s Guide To Living Childless By Choice," and Helen Fisher, biological anthropologist and author "Why Him/Why Her." OK, ladies. Let`s get into this. Lori, you`ve done the research. What are the biggest reasons that people do not want to have kids? Or women. We`re talking about women.
LAURA SCOTT, AUTHOR, "TWO IS ENOUGH": And particularly women --
BEHAR: Yes.
SCOTT: Is lack of desire. Seventy-five percent of the women I surveyed said I have no desire to have a child, no maternal instinct. That`s huge. And also --
BEHAR: How many?
SCOTT: Seventy-five percent of the childless by choice women --
BEHAR: They have no maternal instinct.
SCOTT: They claim they don`t.
BEHAR: Is that like a deformity?
SCOTT: Well, the society thinks so.
(LAUGHTER)
SCOTT: What is wrong? This woman doesn`t want a child. There must be some dysfunction.
BEHAR: Helen, how much do you find that in the animal kingdom? I bet you don`t find that a lot.
HELEN FISHER, BIOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST: They don`t have any choice either, you know, but animals do, you know, cull in a herd. If they can`t actually raise their young, they`ll kill their young because, you know, woman has only so much metabolic energy. She only has so much time to raise babies and so many opportunities. So, they are very careful about when they raise a child, a lot of primates.
BEHAR: Primates.
RACHEL SHUKERT, AUTHOR, "EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE GREAT": That`s true. My hamster ate all of her babies.
BEHAR: Your hamster ate all of the babies?
SHUKERT: Yes, she ate all the babies.
BEHAR: Really?
SHUKERT: Yes. I was so excited. She had babies. I was like my hamster is a mommy.
BEHAR: She ate the babies?
SHUKERT: And then she ate the babies.
FISHER: That`s not cool.
BEHAR: What type of hamsters are you raising?
(LAUGHTER)
FISHER: Non-maternal ones, that`s for sure.
BEHAR: You`ve been married for four years, but you`re not anxious to have kids.
SHUKERT: I`m not so anxious. I mean, I`m not like totally, you know, I`m not one of these people that`s like, I had my tubes tight when I was 24 years old. I think that eventually I probably will have a baby, but I`m not -- it doesn`t feel like my number one priority right now.
BEHAR: Well, you`re how old now?
SHUKERT: I`m 30.
BEHAR: Thirty. Now, you two ladies have decided not to and I presume that you`re over the egg-producing age.
FISHER: Big time over.
BEHAR: OK. So, when did you make that decision?
SCOTT: I made it about 15. I told my mother -- we were washing up dishes and I said, you know mom, I don`t think I want kids, and she said, you know, that`s okay. I think, you know, education is important. You don`t have to rush into having kids. But she did say that I probably would change my mind.
BEHAR: And you never did.
SCOTT: Well, yes, no, I never did. And I believed her, though. I did believe that at, you know, at 35, there would be this hormonal ticking time bomb that would happen.
BEHAR: Yes.
SCOTT: And all of a sudden, I would just, boink, I would want children.
BEHAR: Well, there is, Laura. There` the call, the biological clock.
SCOTT: Sure. Absolutely.
BEHAR: But you didn`t have it either?
SCOTT: No. I never made the decision. I never wanted to have children. I knew it as a small child. Nobody, fortunately, forced me into it. It just simply never interested me. I was always interested in my work. I played dolls as a child. I`m a nurturing person to my friends. I cry at parades, but I never wanted to have children.
(LAUGHTER)
SHUKERT: She`s not an unfeeling monster.
BEHAR: No, she`s an anthropologist and an intellectual, but do you have any regrets at all?
FISHER: I have none. Do you?
SCOTT: No regrets. You know, actually, when I went to interview people. I went looking for evidence of regret. And I did not find it. Curiosity, perhaps, you know that kind of thing like, ooh, I wonder what it would have been like if I had children, but not regret.
BEHAR: What about your old days? Don`t you want somebody to be there when you --
FISHER: But will they be there?
SCOTT: We have saved so much money by not having kids. I can hire the hot, Swedish guy to like care for me.
SHUKERT: That`s true.
SCOTT: I mean, really --
BEHAR: So, you don`t have the urge to be surrounded by your grandchildren and have the Christmas tree --
FISHER: No. I want to travel all over the world at Christmas, and you know, I don`t even want to have a dog. I mean, --
BEHAR: You don`t even want a dog?
FISHER: No, absolutely not.
SCOTT: I can barely keep a plant alive.
SHUKERT: I would rather have a baby than a dog.
FISHER: For many years, you know, we lived in these little hunting and gathering bands and a woman could hand her baby to the next woman. I mean, these days, it costs $250,000 to raise one child before you send it to college. I mean, this is an unbelievable undertaking.
BEHAR: Why does it cost so much money?
SCOTT: Well, they want computers and bicycles and trips to Europe, et cetera.
BEHAR: Well, they don`t have to go to Europe.
SHUKERT: No.
BEHAR: I mean, they don`t have to have every, you know, thing that -- we never had it.
FISHER: I agree with you.
SHUKERT: I think that it`s become really difficult, though, to raise a child in a way that it never was before and that`s something that I sort of talk to myself about a lot when I`m thinking about, you know, am I going to do this? When am I going to do this? It`s that -- it seems like it`s such a project now to have a kid. You know, everybody -- I`ve all these friends who have kids they`re like so stressed out about getting the kid into nursery school and then where you`re going to send it to school --
BEHAR: That is a New York and L.A. thing.
SHUKERT: Totally a New York thing.
BEHAR: I do not think that happens in the rest of the country. There are plenty of public -- I went to all public schools all the way up to graduate school.
SHUKERT: Yes, so did I.
BEHAR: I hardly paid a dime for my education. And you know, you don`t need to spend that kind of money. A recent study found that in 1 in 5 women will never give birth compared to only 1 in 10 thirty years ago. What are the implications of that, Helen, societal wise?
FISHER: Well, I mean, people are certainly worried about, you know, pension plans and who`s going to support the elderly, but I think we`re going to have to let more immigrants in. I mean, there`s plenty of children in the world. It`s just that we have this sort of clannish feeling that we`ve got to propagate our own children, our own historical background.
And I think that the world`s going to -- we`re going to see more globalization and more realization that we`re all human and that we can have other people come in with their children to help us.
BEHAR: There is a stigma attached that you don`t seem to feel.
SHUKERT: Huge.
BEHAR: I mean, they say that -- that you`re selfish, that there`s something wrong with you. This is not attached to men as much as women.
SCOTT: Isn`t that interesting.
SHUKERT: No.
SCOTT: Because, you know, men -- female identity is so tied to motherhood. We don`t have the same equivalent in the male species. So, there is a sense that if you`re a woman and you don`t care to have children, you don`t want children, there must be something seriously wrong with you.
BEHAR: Yes.
SCOTT: That you`re missing a gene or you`re missing, you know, some defect.
BEHAR: Why do you suppose, Helen, people say that there`s something odd about not having kid?
FISHER: Because there is something odd about it. I mean, from a Darwin evolutionary perspective, you`re choosing to not pass on your DNA on into tomorrow. And in terms of, you know, genetic survival, you have lost.
BEHAR: So, it seems counterintuitive --
FISHER: What`s odd, though, is that we are so sad when women don`t pass on their DNA, but we`re not so sad when men don`t pass on their DNA.
BEHAR: Well, they want to pass their name on. They`re always about their name.
FISHER: So, I do think it`s a natural response to have a little pity for somebody who doesn`t. On the other hand, times have changed so dramatically, and we`re finally at a time in human evolution when women can make that choice. And I think that`s a thrill.
BEHAR: Do you think that some women actually just make the choice to have kids because they can`t think of something else to do?
FISHER: Sure.
SHUKERT: I do. I absolutely do.
SCOTT: I think parenthood isn`t assumption, still, for many women and men. And when I did my research, I noticed that parenthood had moved from an assumption to a decision. And the reason why is the people are delaying marriage, were delaying child bearing well into our 30s and 40s, and we had this child-free life. And so, suddenly, when it comes to the point where, OK, when are we going to have kids? Sometimes, that question morphs into, should we have kids?
BEHAR: I see. That`s true. And then they`ve established a life.
SCOTT: They have. And then they have to make tradeoffs.
BEHAR: That`s why it`s better to do when you`re young and if you`re going to do it.
FISHER: Sure. Before you grow up.
SHUKERT: Before you can change your mind.
BEHAR: You know, successful women without kids sexuality is questioned very often. I think of Sonia Sotomayor, the Supreme Court justice, Janet Napolitano, I mean, Condoleezza Rice, Oprah Winfrey, people who are very successful. I mean, they think that they say that they`re, you know, they`re gay and that`s why they don`t want to have children. What do you think about that?
FISHER: Well, I think that`s ridiculous. I mean, first of all, there`s good data that women who climb up the business ladder tend to be the higher in testosterone, and because they`re higher in testosterone, they seem also to be less interested in home and family. So, the kind of woman --
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
FISHER: Who`s at the top of the business ladder is likely to be highly sexual, but whether she`s gay or straight, that is a different part of the brain. That has nothing to do with --
BEHAR: Well, it`s ironic that a lot of lesbians are having babies.
SCOTT: There are a lot of lesbian couples having babies. And I had, in fact, I had a lesbian woman come up to me in film festival and say, you we get as much pressure to have kids as heterosexual you`ll --
SHUKERT: Everybody wants grandkids.
SCOTT: Everybody wants the grandchildren.
BEHAR: Of course. I know.
SCOTT: And so, they do get a lot of pressure and they do feel compelled.
BEHAR: What about these people who are overpopulating, the Gosselins, the octo-moms, these people who have been vitro with hundreds of things in there, you know what I mean? What`s up with that?
SHUKERT: You know, I think it`s interesting how the way that like their kids have sort of like taken the role of kids in the olden days when they all had to work as farmhands.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUKERT: Now, they`re on reality shows instead of in the field.
BEHAR: Yes, exactly. I mean, what do you make of that?
FISHER: Well, I think it`s as if -- I mean, now people regard that as littering. And you know, as if we`ve got too many people on this planet to begin with.
SHUKERT: That`s true.
FISHER: So, it`s interesting that --
SHUKERT: Much greener it is to not have kids. That he feels he can have steaks and things because he doesn`t have kids. It`s like I can drive a Hummer. I don`t have a kid.
FISHER: Well, you know, we ended up having one or two children per woman, and we`re moving back to that now, one or two children per women.
BEHAR: A country like Italy has zero population growth. And that was always about the bambini. When are we going to said (INAUDIBLE) OK?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Thank you, ladies. We`ll be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guest is an acclaimed author who is now the subject of a new HBO documentary directed by the great Martin Scorsese which premieres November 22nd. Please welcome Fran Lebowitz. Fran, why are you the subject of a documentary?
FRAN LEBOWITZ, AUTHOR: As opposed to whom?
BEHAR: As opposed to -- I don`t know.
LEBOWITZ: You.
BEHAR: Anybody else. I mean, he`s done the rolling stones. I`m curious. Why did he come to you for that?
LEBOWITZ: He didn`t really come to me. What happened was Graydon Carter was the editor of "Vanity Fair" said to me he wanted to make a documentary about me, produce it, not direct it, of course. I said no, because I didn`t want anyone to follow me around with a camera.
BEHAR: You didn`t want anybody to follow you around? Why not?
LEBOWITZ: No. I don`t know. I seem to be the only person in the country that is true of. Because when I was younger, the BBC made a documentary about me where they, you know, thought I was too young to say no, and by the time they left to go back to London, there was not a single person I was related to or knew who`s speaking to each other.
It was a horrible experience. So, I said no. I didn`t want to do it. And then when Marty came into it, you know, And I knew Marty was, say, elevated in that way and that he would do something different, and of course, you wouldn`t say no to Marty, and I did not.
BEHAR: Well, it`s a great thing, an honor, actually.
LEBOWITZ: It`s an honor (ph) for sure. And also, he made a great movie because -- I don`t know. He`s coming along.
BEHAR: He`s coming along in his career. We`re happy for him.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, when you -- I know that when you were a child, you were punished for talking.
LEBOWITZ: I was.
BEHAR: Is that True?
LEBOWITZ: It`s true.
BEHAR: You were a talker, huh?
LEBOWITZ: It is true.
BEHAR: But you made a career out of talking and writing.
LEBOWITZ: I have.
BEHAR: Mostly talking, I think.
LEBOWITZ: Unfortunately, that is the case. Unfortunately, less lucrative. True. My first day at kindergarten ended with me sitting in the corner with the Band-Aid pasted over my mouth holding up a sign saying, "I am a chatter box."
BEHAR: Oh, that`s not right.
LEBOWITZ: It was before self-esteem. Before they tried to instill self-esteem in children.
BEHAR: And do you think it was abusive?
LEBOWITZ: No. I don`t think it`s abusive. No.
BEHAR: Where did you grow up?
LEBOWITZ: Morristown, New Jersey.
BEHAR: New Jersey. I also -- I remember you saying a few years ago when I saw you at the (INAUDIBLE) that you were upset that New York City has been turning into -- has been disney-fied.
LEBOWITZ: Disney-fied.
BEHAR: Am I right?
LEBOWITZ: I`m upset that it`s become so suburban. That is for sure.
BEHAR: In Manhattan, you`re talking about.
LEBOWITZ: Yes.
BEHAR: But do you really miss the hookers and the drug dealers on 42nd street? I don`t.
LEBOWITZ: To me, I don`t know why these are the (ph) choices.
(LAUGHTER)
LEBOWITZ: I mean, no. To me, it doesn`t activate -- you know, when people say, well, Fran, everything in New York is cleaner now. Yes. But why are those the choices? Why couldn`t we have a clean city without these billions of tourists? I`m the anti-tourism bureau. Go home.
BEHAR: You don`t want any tourists come to New York?
LEBOWITZ: No. I don`t.
BEHAR: Why? It`s very lucrative for the city.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Keeps Michael Bloomberg happy.
LEBOWITZ: Ah, well, keeping Michael Bloomberg happy not top of my list. You know, -- no, in fact, Michael Bloomberg, I believe would prefer if the New Yorkers actually left and just sent in our tax money, so he could be the mayor of the tourists because the tourists like him better than we do because, of course, the tourists leave after three days.
BEHAR: But the city is much more livable these days. I mean, used to be afraid to walk down the block getting mugged. You don`t get mugged anymore. It`s great.
LEBOWITZ: Well, I didn`t get mugged. (INAUDIBLE). I didn`t get mugged. You know which blocks not to walk down.
BEHAR: Why do I have to live like that? I have to know which blocks not to walk down? That`s not --
LEBOWITZ: Because that`s what a city is. OK?
BEHAR: OK. OK. Now, what do you think about -- let`s talk about the political scene a little bit. You know, Barbara Walters, my boss over at "The View." She interviewed Ms. Sarah Palin which is airing soon, but it came out that Sarah said to her that she could beat Obama in 2012. Do you think she could beat him?
LEBOWITZ: Well, I think it`s a possibility. And the fact that it`s a possibility is the fault of Barbara Walters. I don`t mean personally. It`s the fault of the media. In other words, the fact that we know who Sarah Palin is, is your fault.
BEHAR: Exactly.
LEBOWITZ: OK?
BEHAR: You`re right. I think she`s right.
LEBOWITZ: And the fact -- you know, there`s no difference between like the Kardashians. Sarah Palin same. You know, it`s not as if their accomplishments are inescapable. Of course, we have to pay attention to that. You know, they have no accomplishments, and so if you stop asking questions about them, they would disappear.
BEHAR: Well, the thing about it is we have a 24-hour news media -- medium going on right now. Thanks to Ted Turner who started it. So, you have a lot of air time to fill. And there are a lot of stations with cable. What are we supposed to talk about?
LEBOWITZ: Really --
BEHAR: And she keeps giving things to talk about.
LEBOWITZ: You can`t remember a time before Sarah Palin? It`s only been like two years. (LAUGHTER)
LEBOWITZ: Really.
BEHAR: No, I can`t. It`s like BP and AP.
(LAUGHTER)
LEBOWITZ: Well, there was a time before Sarah Palin, and there will be a time after Sarah Palin. And there would be no Sarah Palin at all if you didn`t do this.
BEHAR: OK. But let`s be in reality. She exists. We do talk about her.
LEBOWITZ: You talk about her.
BEHAR: Because she constantly gives you reasons to talk about her. She`s sort of like that kind of person. Is she`s that kind of a person? And let`s just assume for the sake of argument that she does become a president. Would you move out of the country?
LEBOWITZ: She`s not going to be the president.
BEHAR: Look at me, Fran. It could happen.
LEBOWITZ: I`m looking at you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It could happen.
LEBOWITZ: I am looking at you.
BEHAR: It could happen.
LEBOWITZ: She`s not going to be the president.
BEHAR: What if she became the president, what would you do?
LEBOWITZ: The same thing I did when George Bush was the president. Complain more.
(LAUGHTER)
LEBOWITZ: But she is not going to be the president. She is not going to be the president. I`m not saying impossible, but it`s exceptionally unlikely.
BEHAR: Did you think it was impossible when Ronald Reagan won the election?
LEBOWITZ: I did.
BEHAR: And then George W. Bush won the election.
LEBOWITZ: I did.
BEHAR: I mean --
LEBOWITZ: Yes. It gets increasingly more shocking, doesn`t it?
BEHAR: Thank you. Thank you.
LEBOWITZ: Yes, it does. Yes. I was shocked when Ronald Reagan became the president.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s talk about gay marriage. Are you for it or against it?
LEBOWITZ: Well, I don`t, you know, for personally for myself?
BEHAR: Yes.
LEBOWITZ: No. To me, I don`t understand. To me, it seems very regressive, marriage. In general, I, as a single taxpayer, think no one should be allowed to get married because people who are advocates for gay marriage the reasons they cite are always all these advantages that are financial. You know, that are given by the government.
The reason the government gives you financial advantages of being married is because when people stay married for 60 years and have children, it helps the society. Modern day marriage does not help society.
BEHAR: Why not?
LEBOWITZ: Because people don`t stay married.
BEHAR: I know.
LEBOWITZ: OK? And they don`t raise their children, you know? And so, since they don`t raise their children, I mean, for instance, you know, Bristol Palin, since they don`t raise their children, it is not helping society. So, we shouldn`t give money toward this. And I shouldn`t pay higher taxes than someone who is married whether they are gay or straight.
BEHAR: OK. So, you`re not getting married, I guess.
LEBOWITZ: I am not getting married.
BEHAR: So, thank you so much.
LEBOWITZ: I`m not joining the army either.
BEHAR: I must -- you`re not going to join the army either?
LEBOWITZ: No.
BEHAR: I must tell you it`s always fascinating and interesting to speak to you.
LEBOWITZ: Thank you.
BEHAR: And I can see now why Scorsese did a documentary about you and not me. OK. The documentary "Public Speaking" debuts Monday on HBO. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Joan Cusack is an academy award nominated actress whose specialty is playing quirky characters with a lot of art in movies like "In And Out," "Working Girl" and "Broadcast News." Take a look at one of my favorite clips.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have a minute in the house (ph). It`s my responsibility to tell the control room and New York that we won`t be ready.
JOAN CUSACK, ACTRESS: Ah-ah, we`ll be ready.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In 84 seconds? 15 seconds? God. You`re a single guy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lay it in. Back it up.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re going to go and the screen will be black and they`re going to go to black because we`re not there. What about our careers, huh? We`re not going to make it!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoops.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Whoops?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m so happy to welcome to my show again, Joan Cusack.
CUSACK: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: William Hurt`s face like he`s so like what`s happening?
CUSACK: I know.
BEHAR: It`s just the funniest.
CUSACK: And he was so cute.
BEHAR: yes.
CUSACK: It was so fun.
BEHAR: Albert Brooke is very funny.
CUSACK: Oh, my God. He was so un -- I`ve never met anyone that funny ever. He was funny every single day. And you`d like talk about servicing, he was funny. You`re talking about getting his hair cut, he was funny. He was like constant unbelievable.
BEHAR: You know, you do quirky.
CUSACK: Yes.
BEHAR: What does it mean to you when someone say you`re quirky like I introduced you?
CUSACK: Quirky.
BEHAR: What does it mean?
CUSACK: Quirky is like a lollipop or something. I don`t know. I think it sort of just not your regular gal, I guess.
BEHAR: Yes.
CUSACK: But that`s worked fine for me.
BEHAR: Oh, my God. You`re great at it.
CUSACK: It`s been fun because if you get to have a sense of humor and do something, you don`t have all that pressure of having to be stunning and aloof.
BEHAR: Right. And as we were talking during the break, you could go on indefinitely with the quirk.
CUSACK: Yes. And you, I love you.
BEHAR: We`re both quirky.
CUSACK: I`m so happy that you have gotten the success you`ve gotten.
BEHAR: Thank you.
CUSACK: And I loved it you didn`t even do it until 40.
BEHAR: I started very late to be in the business.
CUSACK: Like it`s never too late.
BEHAR: It`s never too late. I always say that to women. Just find what you want to do and do it.
CUSACK: It`s so good.
BEHAR: Now, you`re going to be in this new show, time show called "Shameless" in January with William H. Macy.
CUSACK: Yes.
BEHAR: And I was very interested to hear that he used to baby-sit for you when you were a little girl in Chicago, right?
CUSACK: Yes. Well, he came through the Chicago theater circuit and like got great success in all of these David Mamet plays there, and my dad was kind of a play write and he was in advertising, and the thing I remember the most was that he also was a carpenter, Bill Macy.
BEHAR: Oh.
CUSACK: And he built the cubby holes in our kitchen.
BEHAR: Really?
CUSACK: And my mom was forever going, these are the cubby holes that Bill Macy built. Bill Macy built the cubby holes. Those are the cubby holes that Bill Macy built. And then he was in Fargo and just, Bill Macy built the cubby holes. There`s the cubby holes. We put our mittens in there.
BEHAR: I see you base some of your characters on her.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK.
CUSACK: My mom.
BEHAR: Mommy. OK. Now, also, you`re working with GLAD Plastic bags.
CUSACK: Yes I am.
BEHAR: To raise money for pediatric cancer.
CUSACK: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s very nice.
CUSACK: No. It is really nice.
BEHAR: You`re having a celebrity bake off?
CUSACK: Yes, yes. I mean, the main big picture thing is that pediatric cancer is the leading cause of death by disease for children. It`s like breast cancer. No one wants to talk about it because it`s so sad.
BEHAR: Now, this has to come out to the closet.
CUSACK: Yes, it does, because --
BEHAR: It`s so sad people don`t want to talk about it.
CUSACK: It`s so sad and it`s so fast because there -- you know, everything grows fast when you`re a kid. So --
BEHAR: Yes.
CUSACK: The older you are, the slower it grows.
BEHAR: Yes.
CUSACK: So, it`s really --
BEHAR: It`s a terrible scourge.
CUSACK: Yes.
BEHAR: And if you want out there more information on this wonderful thing you`re doing, go to glad.com/gladtogive. Good night everybody. Joan, thank you so much.
CUSACK: Oh, I love it. It`s a pleasure.
BEHAR: We`re so happy to be here.
CUSACK: I`m so happy for you. I love you. It`s good.
BEHAR: We`re happy for each other.
CUSACK: Yes, goodness. Goodness. More. With the women are coming.
BEHAR: The women. I certainly hope so.
END
