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Joy Behar Page
High School Hostage Standoff; Profiling in America
Aired November 30, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a 15-year-old Wisconsin boy holds 23 students hostage before turning the gun on himself as cops storm the classroom. So what drove this seemingly normal child to do the unthinkable?
Then, switching gears Ann Hathaway and James Franco are slated to host the Oscars. So will young viewers tune in to watch these young stars?
Plus the rowdy Bob Saget talks about going from wholesome sitcom dad to one of the raunchiest comics around.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: For five terrifying hours, 15-year-old Samuel Hengel held 23 classmates and a teacher hostage in his Wisconsin high school before turning his gun on himself. Hengel died this morning, leaving his community with many questions, not the least of which is why would a kid who by all accounts was well liked and from a good family do something like this? The chief in charge of the investigation had this to say early on.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF JEFFREY SKORIK, MARINETTE POLICE DEPARTMENT: The motivations are unclear. We, at this point, are attempting to gather information from his classmates, friends. We did interview his parents last night. And this is uncharacteristic for this young man from what we`ve been told and we are still looking into what may have been the trigger.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here now to discuss the latest on this story are a former Candace Delong a former FBI agent and profiler; Crystal Miller, a Columbine survivor; and joining me by phone, Calsey Krause a former student of Marinette High School who was on the scene yesterday; as well as Doug Schneider, a reporter for the "Greenbay Press Gazette".
Doug, let me start with you. What is the latest in the investigation right now?
DOUG SCHNEIDER, REPORTER, GREENBAY PRESS GAZETTE (via telephone): Authorities and media seem to be trying to piece things together; beyond the fact that the shooter has died there doesn`t seem to be a whole lot coming out. We`re told that it may be a couple of days before law enforcement is able to put together a specific time line as to just what happened inside that room.
BEHAR: Well, the hostage taker, his name is Samuel Hengel, he died this morning. What do we know about him at this point?
SCHNEIDER: We are hearing a range of things. By most accounts he was a good student and generally a student who was well thought of. Obviously nobody suspects anything like this.
BEHAR: Yes.
SCHNEIDER: But, clearly, there was some trouble somewhere. As to why, though, that is still unanswered.
BEHAR: Well, the boy had two handguns with him, a nine millimeter semi-automatic and a 22 caliber semi-automatic and a duffle bag filled with ammunition. Any idea where he got all of these?
SCHNEIDER: At this point, no, we don`t.
BEHAR: You do not. Ok. Well, that will be interesting to see what they come up with there. Thanks, Doug, very much.
Let me bring in my panel now. Calsey, you were on the scene yesterday. Can you describe to me what it was like?
CALSEY KRAUSE, FORMER STUDENT, MARINETTE HIGH SCHOOL: It was hectic. Everybody was running around. People were crying. Everybody was hugging each other. Even though you didn`t know anybody, they were still hugging people.
BEHAR: Yes. Now I understand that you didn`t know Samuel Hengel but your friends did.
KRAUSE: Yes.
BEHAR: What did you hear about him?
KRAUSE: I heard that he was a straight A student. He always went to church. He liked hunting and outdoors and he was just an all-around good kid.
BEHAR: Really. It`s always a strange description when you hear these horrible stories.
Candace, what we know about Hengel is that he was well liked, from a great family, even-keeled, not moody. This isn`t the typical profile of a school shooter, is it?
CANDACE DELONG, FORMER FBI AGENT AND PROFILER: No, it isn`t. Usually what we see in high school shooters and hostage takers is the -- pretty much the classic shy, quiet loner, the kid that was bullied by others. And when this kind of thing happens, pretty much everyone around him goes, well, yes, I guess I should have seen that coming. All the signs were there.
That does not seem to be the case with Samuel.
BEHAR: Well, 20/20 hindsight I guess you are describing. But what do you think could have been the reason then? What is there to look at?
DELONG: In the absence of drugs, in the absence of drugs -- and it doesn`t sound like they`re going to find any drugs in his system -- then one of the things would certainly have to be -- they`re going to find out by interviewing close friends and family and what`s on his computer.
But one of the things that occurred to me, and I have a clinical background in psychiatry, psychiatric nurse, is that perhaps something was going on, a mental disorder was in its nascent stages, and he did this as a result of something like this. Something undiagnosed possibly could have led to this happening.
BEHAR: That is interesting.
DELONG: An autopsy of course will be done. Sometimes people have brain tumors and they do crazy things like this but more often it`s not anything as exotic as that but it might be a mental illness that was undiagnosed such as bipolar disorder.
BEHAR: So it`s possible no one caught it, no one would know at this point, his parents, nobody would have picked that up?
DELONG: Well, it`s possible. It depends. We have very broad parameters for what is acceptable in our society and a lot of times people do quirky things or they do crazy things and we say, well, that`s just kind of quirky.
Well, no, actually it might have been an indication of a mental illness. There are two mental illnesses that surface oftentimes in the teen years. One is schizophrenia. It doesn`t sound like that was his issue. The other one is bipolar disorder. When people are on a bipolar high they frequently do things like this.
BEHAR: Now, Crystal, you`re a Columbine survivor. You actually hid in the library when ten people were killed when that happened. Did hearing about this bring all that back to you? That must have been difficult for you today.
CRYSTAL MILLER, COLUMBINE SURVIVOR: You know, it always does. It always tends to -- whenever I see something on the news, it brings back just a rush of emotions and, of course, just the memories of what happened to me at Columbine High School. You are correct when you say that I was in the library that day where as you can remember most of the violence took place.
BEHAR: Yes.
MILLER: You know, it does. It`s heart breaking. I mean my heart breaks for Calsey and for all of those students who were at the school especially those students who were there inside of the classroom, that one teacher. I can`t -- it`s hard to imagine the terror, the trauma that they had to endure for nearly six hours. It is just -- it is unfathomable.
BEHAR: Right.
MILLER: Just the pain and the fear that they were feeling in those moments.
BEHAR: A lot of people died in Columbine. Not that many died this time. So it`s a little bit different.
Candace, in the case of the Columbine situation, the two shooters, Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold I believe his name was; they were said to have been bullied and went into the school with intent to kill classmates. Could it be that this kid was bullied? That`s a possibility isn`t it?
DELONG: Well, we might -- well, yes, we might find that, but that may surface but I have a feeling that we`re going to find out that there was something more behind it than that. And also one of the two Columbine shooters was on anti-depressants and --
BEHAR: Yes.
DELONG: I believe it was Harris.
BEHAR: I mean it`s, I guess it`s over simplification to say that it`s just bullying, really. Because a lot of kids are bullied in school and don`t do something like this, Klebold and Harris did. That was really very extreme.
Calsey, have you heard anything about Hengel being bullied though?
KRAUSE: He was not bullied.
BEHAR: He was not.
KRAUSE: I`ve talked to a lot of people and they said he was well liked.
BEHAR: Ok. Crystal, now a former teacher of Hengel`s has stated he thinks the suspect is a victim, too. Using the word victim, what do you think about that?
MILLER: You know, honestly, Joy, I kind of -- I`m on both sides of the coin on that, because I do believe if it was an issue of him being bullied I believe that those that are bullied are victims.
But I also -- this young man 15 years old, he was old enough, responsible enough to take responsibility for his actions, know that there`s consequences, know the difference between right and wrong. So because we don`t exactly know what was going on in this young man`s mind, it`s hard to really know, you know, if he`s a victim or not.
But I kind of -- I`m on both sides. Yes, I believe that even Dylan and Eric at my school at Columbine were victims of being bullied.
BEHAR: You do.
MILLER: And as you said there`s -- I do, yes. And I believe there are a number of factors that we can`t just point to bullying, that it was one of the factors out of many that caused the violence at my high school.
BEHAR: Yes.
MILLER: But I also do believe -- I do not condone what they did. They didn`t understand there was another place where they could take their pain, take their anger.
BEHAR: Ok. One more question, Candace. Where do you think the cops are going to start looking for clues? In the computers maybe? Or -- in his computer rather --
DELONG: In his computer and talking to his close friends, teenagers, frequently keep secrets from their family.
BEHAR: I`d like to know where he got these guns is what I`d be interested to know.
DELONG: Yes, well --
BEHAR: I mean these are heavy weight -- heavy duty ammunition. We`re not talking about, you know, a little bit of a handgun even.
(CROSSTALK)
DELONG: Right. He didn`t want to kill anybody or he would have.
BEHAR: Probably you`re right. Ok.
Thanks everyone very much. We`ll be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Security rules at U.S. airports keep evolving but so do the people hell bent on attacking us. So one Muslim-American woman says it`s time to start profiling and she says the feds can start with her.
Asra Nomani is a contributor to "The Daily Beast" and she is here to debate Marc Lamont Hill, professor of anthropology in education at Columbia University. Welcome to the show you guys.
Asra why do you want to be profiled?
ASRA NOMANI, MUSLIM-AMERICAN SUPPORTER OF PROFILING: Well, this is what I think we have to accept as a reality that right now in the 21st century, al Qaeda has their eye set on U.S. airports and U.S. airliners. And the people who subscribe to al Qaeda`s ideology are Muslims.
I`m a Muslim, I`m not interested in bombing an airport or an airliner but the truth is that the people who are -- are targets right now that are -- are -- are threat assessment, they should include Muslims.
That doesn`t mean we end with Muslims. That doesn`t mean we begin with Muslims. It should just be a factor inside of our threat assessment.
BEHAR: Well, you also support religious profiling. How can you tell what religion someone is?
NOMANI: Well, you know, inside of our Muslim community, Joy, we profile each other all the time. I walk into a mosque and I can basically ascertain ideology by all of these visual cues. They`re sort of like gang signs.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Really.
NOMANI: You know them by the length of the guy`s -- yes, the length of the guy`s pants, the length of the beard, I mean, there is this whole politics to that we call the long and short of beards basically; the kind of garb that a woman is wearing. And I get that like if somebody who is held bent on trying to do destruction to an enemy as they perceive it, they`re going to disguise themselves.
BEHAR: Yes.
NOMANI: It`s called false flag operations in the intelligence community. We have to be smarter than them.
But I have to tell you that we`ve got all these visual cues that we use inside of our communities and we`re always labeling each other.
BEHAR: Ok. What do you make of her saying profile me and all of that?
MARC LAMONT HILL, OPPOSES RACIAL & RELIGIOUS PROFILING: Well, I mean, it`s ok if you want to volunteer your own civil liberties and go to the airport and say, look, I`d like to be profiled. That is perfectly ok. The problem comes when you begin to profile people who don`t want their civil liberties invaded.
Yes it`s true that all the people who support al Qaeda are Muslim but that makes less in one in one thousand of the people who were actually -- one in one million for the people who are actually passing into airports or who subscribe to its plan.
So for me to terrorize the actual every day citizens who are innocent is a gross invasion of privacy, it`s a gross invasion of our civil liberties. And we don`t live in a nation where we are willing to concede freedom for the purpose of safety. There are other ways to make this happen.
The other part --
BEHAR: So --
HILL: -- the other -- one second, the other of this is that it just doesn`t work. There is no evidence to suggest that if we profile all Muslims, that if we profile all Arabs, that that it`ll -- that it`ll actually reduce terror and to say that we can profile internally by the length of the beard or by the -- the length of the Hijab, I mean, that sounds good but in reality terrorists as evil as they are -- are pretty smart and if they know that you`re looking for people with a beard that`s six inches they just might cut it.
BEHAR: Yes but also what -- I think part of what -- what he is saying Asra is that profiling is un-American. We don`t really like it here. And so --
NOMANI: So we don`t --
BEHAR: -- it would be very difficult for us to do something like that I think.
NOMANI: I -- I know. I completely understand what you all are saying.
BEHAR: Yes.
NOMANI: And I understand that profiling has become a dirty word. But really what profiling is meant to mean is threat assessment. And we already do it.
We`re not supposed to discriminate based on one indicator like race or religion but already for example when you talk about who can enter into the United States, we already are using issues of national origin as indicators for whether or not somebody is safe to come into this country or not.
In Louisiana, they`re profiling because they`ve decided that white males in pickup trucks are more likely to be in traffic accidents and so they`ve targeted white males in pickup trucks. It`s happening throughout our community and I know that it`s a dirty word.
BEHAR: But -- but --
NOMANI: There`s no -- is no reason why it needs to end up in persecution or the type of harassment that you`re talking about.
BEHAR: But how would you do it? How would you do it? Would you line people up who are dark-skinned or look Arabic?
HILL: She`s saying all of them. If I`m reading you correctly --
BEHAR: Would there be separate lines?
HILL: So there will be a Muslim line, there will be Arab or an Arab line. I mean, that`s a very, very dangerous thing. But most importantly it doesn`t work.
NOMANI: I mean, the next thing we talk about -- if I could for a second, the next thing we would talk about is all of the scare scenarios, the internment camps, are we going to have people wear stars on their -- on their sleeves? No. None of that. I mean, this is a country that, clearly, is built on civil liberties. I completely agree with you.
BEHAR: Yes.
NOMANI: But we don`t have to be impractical when it comes to our security assessment. We -- we understand really clearly that religiosity does influence terrorism.
HILL: No, it doesn`t. No, it doesn`t.
NOMANI: And -- it -- it does.
HILL: It absolutely -- it absolutely does not.
NOMANI: Really.
HILL: It absolutely does not.
NOMANI: Really.
HILL: No it does not. Ideology does --
NOMANI: Ok, tell me what the -- can I just ask you something real quick?
HILL: Sure.
NOMANI: What connects Jose Padilla, Zacarias Moussaoui, Khalid Shaikh Mohammed, Omar Albaluchi (ph), all of the 19 hijackers? What`s the common denominator in all of them?
HILL: A belief that America needs to be terrorized.
NOMANI: Oh, really?
HILL: Not a belief -- not a belief in the five pillars of Islam. This is not about a belief in Islam. This is not even as -- this isn`t Islamism -- this is about Islamists this is not about -- this about religious extremism and the thing --
(CROSSTALK)
NOMANI: And what -- what -- excuse me.
HILL: The thing -- no let me finish the point, the thing that separates --
NOMANI: What religion, what religion? Excuse me if I could ask you a question.
HILL: But let me finish the answer to the previous question.
NOMANI: No, no but you made your point. I just want -- I don`t want to talk over each other if I could.
HILL: I -- I agree.
NOMANI: What extremism, what -- what religion is being, are we seeing an extremist interpretation of?
HILL: At this moment, Islam.
NOMANI: Right.
HILL: But one thing, Islam is not the point.
NOMANI: Right, exactly. Exactly.
HILL: Ok, that`s -- that`s not a point that I was disputing. The point that I`m making is that Islam isn`t the problem. It`s a radical group of people and whether they were radical Muslims --
NOMANI: Right.
HILL: -- or radical Christians, or radical Jews I`d have the same concern.
NOMANI: Of course.
HILL: I have the same concern.
NOMANI: Of course.
HILL: And so -- and so to locate -- to locate Muslims as a whole as the -- as the problem is very dangerous.
BEHAR: But couldn`t --
HILL: But most importantly it`s ineffective. It doesn`t work. Let`s not lose sight at this point; it does not work. There are more effective strategies.
BEHAR: But couldn`t Asra, couldn`t a Muslim extremist look like me?
NOMANI: Yes.
BEHAR: Possible?
HILL: Some have.
BEHAR: Yes.
NOMANI: But this is -- but this is exactly the point. I mean, it doesn`t mean that we go into our stereotypical image of what a Muslim looks like. I mean, Jihad --
HILL: That`s -- that`s exactly what you`re asking, that`s exactly what you`re saying. How do I determine if somebody is a Muslim other than basing it on stereotypes? What would my criteria? Let me ask you a question? What would the criteria be to determine that?
BEHAR: Ok. Let her answer.
NOMANI: Well, what you do -- what you can do is, you know, religion and race can also be included in this type of behavioral profiling that is much more popular and it does become an indicator. So, for example, Jihad Jane, you end up discovering that she is a convert and that she does subscribe to this extremist ideology and lo and behold she is white and blonde.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok. We have to take a break and we`ll continue this discussion in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back debating the effectiveness of racial and religious profiling. Ok. Let`s talk about other ways of profiling which is behavioral profiling, a lot of it is done in the Israeli airports.
LAMONT HILL: Their most effective --
BEHAR: They are looking at people who engage in bizarre behavior or whom seem to be nervous I suppose.
LAMONT HILL: Right. The "I love al Qaeda" T-shirts.
BEHAR: A certain amount of anxiety.
For example --
LAMONT HILL: That`s always an indicator.
BEHAR: Picture of Osama bin Laden.
NOMANI: There you go.
BEHAR: Yes. Stuff like that or paying in cash, flying without baggage. One way tickets.
LAMONT HILL: One way from a foreign country.
BEHAR: We learned from 9/11 that that is crazy.
LAMONT HILL: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Is that good? Do you like that?
NOMANI: We do.
LAMONT HILL: Absolutely. That`s way more effective. To her point, Jihad Jane doesn`t get caught if we base it on traditional profile -- racial profiling or ethnic profiling or even religious profiling but if we look at those practices we see that it works.
People always say, well, look at Israel. They profile and they are very safe. Israel profiles but they tend to do like as you mentioned, behavioral profiling. We`re ok with that. I am ok with smart intelligence.
BEHAR: But they also, the Israelis -- I was reading an article just today, the Israelis also can be very abusive sometimes to people and they will let them, you know, they have them stripping, they keep them for hours just because they have an Arabic name or they look Arabic.
LAMONT HILL: Right.
BEHAR: So they`re not perfect.
LAMONT HILL: No, not at all.
BEHAR: Their record is perfect however. I`ll give you that. Why isn`t behavioral profiling good enough, Asra?
NOMANI: Because at the end of the day all it does is it doesn`t isolate enough of the threat as it exists right now. We have to be really clear about where that threat exists.
I just want to give the example -- for example with the drug runners. The number one prosecution we have in the United States is Colombians that belong to the FARC terrorist group.
So those people of that nationality and that ethnicity are very much profiled when it comes to law enforcement. But do we protest that? We don`t because it`s not as politically incorrect as looking at issues --
LAMONT HILL: But we should.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How does the Muslim community deal with you? I mean how do they feel about you coming out and saying these things?
NOMANI: Well, you know, I`m not going to win as home coming queen at my local mosque.
BEHAR: You`re not.
NOMANI: No.
BEHAR: Didn`t they call you an "Uncle Tom"?
NOMANI: Yes, they did.
BEHAR: I mean it`s not a popular position you`re taking. I give you credit for taking it because it is brave of you.
LAMONT HILL: I know.
BEHAR: It`s brave of her to speak out this way.
LAMONT HILL: I appreciate the bravery but I think it`s problematic.
BEHAR: She says the Muslim community is not policing itself. That`s why she does this.
LAMONT HILL: The Muslim community is policing itself.
BEHAR: I`m sorry but I`ll tell you the deeper point and the reason why I really felt it was really important to, you know, own the problem inside of our community is because, really, for the last decade I have felt so sad that we are losing young boys, increasingly, the latest Portland situation as an example because inside of our community we are not saying enough to this radical interpretation of Islam.
We are not, you know, basically marginalizing Osama bin laden and al Qaeda and all of this.
BEHAR: Why not? Why not?
NOMANI: Because, you know, it`s so much a part of our main stream community. I know that there are a lot of people who are going to dispute this but in my mosque in Morgantown --
LAMONT HILL: I`ll be one of them --
NOMANI: In my mosque in Morgantown, West Virginia, it`s not the bastion of al Qaeda. They preach against the West and against institutions.
LAMONT HILL: Asra, if you don`t want to -- at the worst, if you want to radicalize young people all you have to do is marginalize them right? So if you go around taking every Muslim between the age of 10 and 50 and make them go through airport scanners and body searches and get profiled just because they`re Muslim that`s what ticks them off. That`s what makes them mad at America.
NOMANI: Trust me.
LAMONT HILL: Let me finish and that`s what radicalizing them.
NOMANI: There is ideology that is radicalizing these young boys. We have to accept it.
LAMONT HILL: And it`s yours. And it`s yours. You are producing the very thing you`re scared of.
BEHAR: All right. Thank you, guys, very much for a very lively debate.
We`ll be back after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The producers of the Academy Awards has announced that Anne Hathaway and James Franco will co-host the 2011 Oscars. Are they trying to reach a younger audience or do they just need co-hosts who can stay awake until the end of the show? With me now to talk about this and other issues in the news are Robert Verdi, celebrity stylist and co-creator of FirstComesFashion.com, Ana Marie Cox, Washington correspondent for "GQ" magazine, and comedian Rich Vos. It`s certainly not a conventional choice, is it?
ROBERT VERDI, CELEBRITY STYLIST: No, it`s a bizarre choice at that. I mean, they`re really nice to look at., but --
ANA MARIE COX, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, GQ: They`re the nicest to look at presenters I think that I remember in recent times. I`m just worried someone is going to lose an arm.
BEHAR: Well, he lost the arm in the movie.
COX: Right. Yes. Like, who; going to amputate whose arm?
BEHAR: Well, that was in the movie, Ana.
COX: Oh, right, right. Sorry.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Rich.
RICH VOS, COMEDIAN: What is this, the Sonny and Cher hour, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
VOS: Really, it`s like an "SNL" sketch. It really is. Get -- comics are supposed to host the Oscars.
BEHAR: I agree with that.
VOS: I vote for the Oscars (ph).
BEHAR: You did?
VOS: For one -- and it was great.
BEHAR: Which one?
VOS: Chris rock when he hosted.
BEHAR: Was that a good event?
(CROSSTALK)
VOS: Yes, the stuff I wrote.
COX: I remember thinking to myself that some of it was especially good.
VERDI: I think (INAUDIBLE) movies are the summary of what the Oscars will be like love and other drugs and it`ll take 127 years. That`s the Hollywood summary.
BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly.
COX: But the thing is I guess they`ve also just given up on having it be entertaining. It`s just to be nice to look at.
BEHAR: No, but yes, exactly. She`s funny, Anne Hathaway.
COX: And James Franco on "30 Rock" was fantastic.
VERDI: I really think (ph) Kardashians do it.
(LAUGHTER)
VERDI: Susan Boyle and the Kardashians.
(LAUGHTER)
VOS: You want to fall back on those two for an ad lib if something happens, you know? These are scripted actors.
COX: It`s so ad lib. It`s just like --
VOS: Yes, well, a comic can ad lib.
BEHAR: Hugh Jackman, your pal, he got bigger numbers than some of the comedians. So, he`s an actor.
VOS: Last year was great with Steve Martin and the other guy.
BEHAR: Who was the other guy?
COX: Alec Baldwin.
VOS: Alec Baldwin.
BEHAR: Oh, Alec Baldwin. OK. But what about -- remember the Rob Lowe duet with Snow White in 1989?
VERDI: I do remember that.
BEHAR: I mean, there`s a huge -- I don`t remember it exactly, but I remember it was a big embarrassment. There`s a huge possibility that these two could humiliate themselves. Do we care?
COX: Well, they`ll also look pretty. I mean, I hate to keep coming back to this but, they`ll just be there in silence.
VERDI: Do you think we`re that superficial as a culture?
COX: Maybe we could do that for the whole segment.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know they`re that pretty, that we have to really focus on -- They`re not Angelina and Brad. Those two are gorgeous. Then, no one would be listening to anything if those two were there.
COX: Right.
BEHAR: These two are cute. I mean, he was great as James Dean, I thought.
VERDI: Yes. That`s fantastic.
COX: Oh, that was like his big breakout role.
BEHAR: But, as you pointed out, he`s nominated for the one armed thing, and she`s nominated for some other thing.
VERDI: The two armed thing.
COX: Is she nominated for something this year?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. Do you know what I`m talking about?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He cuts his own arm off. I mean, I know, I cannot watch that movie.
VOS: I`ve done that many times.
BEHAR: Can you see that? I can`t watch that.
VOS: Thank you for grabbing that.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Okay. Let`s move on to another topic before I cut my arm off. Last Sunday, buffalo bills receiver, Steve Johnson, dropped a game-winning pass and blamed God because he praises him 24/7. You know, maybe he should praise him 24/6 and use the other day to practice. Anyway, he is now changing his tune. He`s tweeting and, no. I did not blame God, people. Seriously. Come on. I simply cried out and asked why? Just like Yal did when something went wrong in your life is what he`s saying.
VERDI: I`m tweeting God right now. You can`t actually tweet God and then take it back. It`s like cyber Judas. It`s like you can`t actually --
COX: But isn`t either God responsible for everything or nothing? Like, I mean, he already knows that the guy took it back. He made the guy drop the ball. He`ll make him catch it next time.
BEHAR: I don`t know anything about what God is thinking.
VOS: I`m surprised --
VERDI: God is watching us.
VOS: He didn`t blame Bush or the Jews.
COX: Oh.
VOS: That`s who you blame.
(LAUGHTER)
VOS: I think it`s always --
COX: Terrorist. Also you left out terrorists.
VOS: And Jews.
VERDI: Here`s the thing.
COX: Yes. Terrorists are somewhere between the two.
VOS: I think it`s about time God is held accountable for his actions. You know, what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes.
VOS: It`s about time that, hey, you know what? Maybe it was his fault. But you think if we`re not going to blame God for, like, Haiti or Somalia or whatever, did I just say that right? Did I say that right?
BEHAR: Somalia, yes.
VOS: OK. I don`t think a touchdown pass is what we`re going to God. I was going well and I got greedy. That`s the problem.
(LAUGHTER)
VOS: I got greedy. I`ll turn it back over to her.
BEHAR: All right.
VERDI: I`ve been praying and all I had to do was tweet God.
BEHAR: That`s true.
VERDI: It`s a waste of my time (ph).
BEHAR: I mean, I blaming God every time cheesecake goes directly to my thighs.
COX: The tweets are 140 characters. Maybe God prefers that, actually. Like the long prayers --
BEHAR: Yes, God has ADD, is that what you`re saying?
COX: Yes, maybe. We all do because it`s God`s fault.
BEHAR: But, you know, he retracted so maybe he thought --
COX: God retracted?
BEHAR: No. Whatever his name is. Steve Johnson.
COX: He`s like mongoose (ph).
BEHAR: He was scared. I think he was scared of God. Repercussions. Scared of the repercussion. You know, he believes.
VOS: I think God had money on the other team.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Maybe he`s afraid that he wants to appease his teammates and all his fans, too, because, you know, they`ll be mad at him.
VOS: They`re so politically correct athletes and entertainers. You know what, you hate God? Thanks. Hey, thanks this time. Yes. Thanks.
VERDI: Yes. They do always thank God.
COX: Why blame mom? I usually blame mom for the stuff that goes wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I blame Bush`s mom.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Let`s go to another story. Overnight singing sensation, Susan Boyle, had a vocal malfunction during a live performance of "O Holy Night" on my other show "The View" this morning. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING) Oh, hear the angel voices
SUSAN BOYLE, SINGER: Excuse me. Excuse me.
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, HOST: What can you really do except stop and say, I got a frog in my throat, yes?
BOYLE: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK.
VERDI: That`s a little odd. I think if you`re really a seasoned professional, you push through that.
COX: But she`s not a seasoned professional.
VERDI: She should host the Oscars.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: She should cut her arm off.
VOS: I think she looked over at Whoopi and choked. That all has happened.
BEHAR: Had nothing to do with anybody. She just couldn`t sing the song.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: Something caught in her throat? I mean, like, was there just --
BEHAR: I don`t know what happened to her to tell you the truth. I was sitting in the green room watching this, and I said, this is great television.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I did. It`s live. Everybody knows she`s not lip syncing. You know, that other kid, the Jackie Vivanco (ph), the kid who --
VERDI: Justin Bieber?
BEHAR: No. The one who has the big operatic voice that was on --
VERDI: Oh, Justine Bieber, yes.
BEHAR: No, not Justin.
VERDI: Oh, Justin Bieber.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Stop it.
COX: It`s the other kid with the operatic voice.
VERDI: I have to blame God on this one.
COX: I do, too.
BEHAR: Blame God. OK. But I mean, like that other kid, everybody thinks she is lip syncing and she`s not. She wasn`t. I saw her --
(CROSSTALK)
VERDI: What was her excuse? Did she say anything?
BEHAR: She has no excuse. She just couldn`t do it. She was upset.
COX: Ultimately, isn`t this endearing? Like no one is going to be like busting on her for this. I mean, like, she is -- and also, if nothing else, like, it`s a rarity to have people actually sing.
VOS: That`s true.
BEHAR: You know, this is not the first time. It could have been somewhat emotional. Maybe she was anxious or maybe she was nervous. She had a little bit of meltdown another time, didn`t she?
VERDI: Oh, yes. But did she take a little nip before the performance?
BEHAR: I don`t think so.
COX: (INAUDIBLE) or at least I thought that`s what I say (ph).
VOS: "The View" is a lot of pressure. I`ve done it a couple times.
BEHAR: You have?
VOS: Yes.
BEHAR: I don`t remember you being there.
(LAUGHTER)
VOS: Are you kidding me? The day after Barbara Walters interviewed Monica Lewinsky. I was on it next day on Joy`s comedy corner. I did it three times.
BEHAR: Oh, on the comedy corner, yes, was a long time ago. Monica Lewinsky. You`re talking history.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: Monica who?
VOS: 1989.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
COX: Monica Lewinsky also tripped.
BEHAR: OK. Finally, more damaging WikiLeaks have surfaced including one in which Secretary of State Hillary Clinton delves into the psyche of Argentina`s president asking how is Cristina Fernandez de Kirchner, managing her nerves and anxiety? What do you think, Xanax and gin, right?
(LAUGHTER)
VERDI: It`s like when you`re on a long flight, you have to take one xani an hour before --
BEHAR: Exactly.
VERDI: With a good, stiff drink, and as soon as you get on the plane, don`t hedge your bets. Take the next xani and you`re out. Maybe Cristina does that. What`s bad about that?
BEHAR: These documents are embarrassing to the United States. Why do you think that`s so embarrassing, Ana?
COX: Well, they`re not embarrassing so much as they show a real lack of trust between the United States and most of our allies, as a matter of fact. The kind of like cattiness that emerged in it.
VERDI: It`s a burn book, basically.
COX: Yes, it is. It is like a slam book for, you know, diplomats. I mean, there are some very serious stuff, too, like the Iran or Iran`s nukes, China`s involvement.
BEHAR: Didn`t you like that, though, that China says that Kim Ill Jiang, yum-yum whatever his name is, is a bad guy and crazy and they would like to get rid of him too?
COX: Actually, the right wing has been very much against WikiLeaks, right? But a lot of the information that has come out in WikiLeaks actually supports some of the causes that right wingers have been for.
VOS: Right.
COX: Anti-Iran, anti-China.
BEHAR: Right.
COX: And the fact that they`re -- all of our Arab allies want us basically to bomb Iran, you know?
BEHAR: All the Arab allies. Imagine that.
VOS: All one of them.
(CROSSTALK)
COX: Allies, I may be using allies a little broadly.
BEHAR: How do you think that Ahmadinejad is taking the fact that all of his Arab neighbors want to kill him?
COX: I don`t think he has any -- I mean, like, whatever. He`s either insane, right, or he`s very good --
BEHAR: He`s not insane.
COX: I don`t think he is.
BEHAR: He is like Hitler. If they want ever to make a reference to Hitler, he is the one.
COX: Right.
VOS: Here`s the thing. All my neighbors hate me. I`m not moving. OK? What does he care?
COX: That`s actually what I was going to say. I mean, he doesn`t -- if he cared about what people thought of him, he wouldn`t be a dictator.
BEHAR: It`s interesting you could bring this down to the lowest level, rich, your neighbors in Manhattan.
(LAUGHTER)
COX: Do you know where he lives?
VOS: It`s even lower. It`s New Jersey.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We got to go. We`re out of time. Thanks, everybody. And if you`re in Fort Lauderdale, catch the very funny Rich Vos at the National Lampoon Comedy Club this weekend. We`ll be right back. OK.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Bob Saget`s career runs the gamut from squeaky clean sitcom, "Full House" to "The Aristocrats" a disgusting, filthy, dirty movie.
(LAUGHTER)
His new show is A&E`s "Strange Days with Bob Saget," and here`s a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BOB SAGET, COMEDIAN: Everyone who joins this club gets a nickname.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ham bone.
SAGET: Hambone?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Cooter.
SAGET: Cooter?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Peckerwood.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Stiffy.
SAGET: I can only imagine how they got them.
These days have already grown on me. I am inseminated (ph) by them. Although some were obvious, like this guy. Naked Dave.
Hold on. I want to get a picture for my kids.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ew. I just ate. Welcome, comedian, Bob Saget. Did you get to ride with Naked Dave?
SAGET: No, no. And I wouldn`t have. I wouldn`t have him go shotgun.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: I didn`t want him inside the car. I was in a side car myself.
BEHAR: You were in a side car, yes.
SAGET: If Naked Dave was with me, then it would have been like a bad Disney ride.
BEHAR: The side car is very naziesque. That`s how they -- remember the young lions, that movie, with the whole movie they`re in the side car.
SAGET: They`re actually run clips of the old biker people, and there were a lot of signatures of that stuff which kind of freaked me out.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAGET: You know, but I`m a nice, Jewish boy --
BEHAR: You`re a nice Jewish boy.
SAGET: In a side car. I didn`t even ride a bike. I like dumped a bike. They put me on one and I like fell over. It was pretty sad. I didn`t know that moment (ph).
BEHAR: No?
SAGET: I did it so my mom would watch and go, why did you do that?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, you call this show a cocumentary. What are you driving at? Is it about chicken?
SAGET: It is. It`s about the rooster and with the --
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: No, it`s the thing on its head. It`s a waggle (ph).
BEHAR: A waggle (ph), yes.
SAGET: Don`t get me into this --
BEHAR: Don`t go there.
SAGET: Don`t get me that.
BEHAR: Don`t go there.
SAGET: It is comedy documentary so I call it cocumentary.
BEHAR: Cocumentary. I see. That`s very good.
SAGET: Without a "K."
BEHAR: Yes. Now, you say that you --
SAGET: Is this CNN?
BEHAR: It`s the CNN`s sister channel. So, we`re siblings.
SAGET: Kind of cool.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAGET: I tried to take a picture in the lobby, and they wouldn`t let me.
BEHAR: Of what?
SAGET: The Christmas tree.
BEHAR: Oh, the Christmas tree. There is no Christmas tree in the lobby.
SAGET: There is a beautiful Hanukah Bush (ph). I don`t know what it was.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: Lovely. Ornamental.
BEHAR: I was reading that you`ve never been to camp.
SAGET: No, never.
BEHAR: What kind of a Jewish boy -- all Jewish boys go to camp.
SAGET: I lived in Virginia and, you know, --
BEHAR: Where they don`t have camps in Virginia?
SAGET: Well, they didn`t send me to camp. My parents like -- I mowed lawns for the summer and stuff and worked. So, we didn`t -- I didn`t go to camp site --
BEHAR: Were you financially insecure as a child?
SAGET: I lived in a refrigerator box.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: But it was nice. It was an Amana. Do I get a free one if I mention that in the show?
BEHAR: No.
SAGET: I never went to camp, and I never did a lot of stuff in the show "Strange Days" which premieres right after your show right now.
BEHAR: Oh, it does? OnA&E?
SAGET: On A&E which is first in the phone book. Like that.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
SAGET: That`s how I found them.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: And it`s a really cool thing. I went to camp. I joined a frat at Cornell, rode in a motorcycle side car from Nashville to Daytona with a group called the iron order, and there was nothing fascistic about them. They were just guys, you know, just good natured motorcycle club men.
BEHAR: And you went to Cornell for this show?
SAGET: Yes.
BEHAR: Where did you go to college?
SAGET: No. I went to Temple University.
BEHAR: Did you graduate?
SAGET: No, I was home schooled. No, I did. I was raised in a trailer.
BEHAR: Did you think Temple University was like a Jewish university?
SAGET: I did. I thought it was going to temple. And you`re conservative when you graduate. No, I actually got a documentary film -- I won the student academy award.
BEHAR: That was interesting that story about the documentary that you did. About some kid who had facial surgery.
SAGET: Face reconstruction.
BEHAR: It was some kind of serious thing?
SAGET: Yes. It was a thing where they were able to do cranial facial surgery and they`re able to remove the face and reconstruct it.
BEHAR: What attracted you to that particular story?
SAGET: It`s someone close to me. Someone, a relative. So, I was drawn in and he was young and he narrated it. It was really his thing. It meant a lot to my family and for us. It was a -- I`m very proud of it. And I was 21 (ph) I`ve had it. So, I always loved documentary, and so, this gone to do this show that we`re doing six of took a year to do it. I like stopped standup. We talked previously before we got on the air, and I just stopped and just worked on this project.
BEHAR: It`s interesting that you started out with this documentary serious topic, family oriented, and then you became this insane comic. With the worst foul, most foul mouth of anybody.
SAGET: Not really.
BEHAR: Yes you are.
SAGET: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: But I Did the family show and then I did the, you know, the video thing. And I`m like proud I did them.
BEHAR: It`s a little bipolar.
SAGET: It is.
BEHAR: You know, it`s a little bipolar.
SAGET: Do you get like that do you think?
BEHAR: I don`t have the kind of foul mouth that you have.
SAGET: You`ve done --
BEHAR: Stop it. Don`t even talk about it.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: You`re very popular. The world loves you. And, you know, you`ve done the research foundation benefit.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAGET: You and I have known each other for a long time. Your standup goes edgy and it`s wonderful.
BEHAR: I`m just kidding. I think that you`re known for it. The aristocrats. I couldn`t even be in the movie because I didn`t even know what to do with that movie. You did ask me, didn`t you?
SAGET: It was Penn Jillette and (INAUDIBLE) made it. And they went out and got George Carlin and a hundred other comedians.
BEHAR: Yes. It was a very funny movie, I must say.
SAGET: I didn`t even want to do it, but they kept cheering me on.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAGET: The voices were cut out as I said terrible things.
BEHAR: Before we go out with this, do you want to show some of your standup? I`d like to show to some people what you`re doing in standup. Let`s show the standup.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAGET: (SINGING) I`ve heard some of you say but Denny Tanner was not gay tell me why they lived in San Francisco, tell me why they went through lots of Krisco, tell me why I never slept with Dave Coulier, but Cammy Gebler (ph) got it this way
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And that`s mild, OK?
SAGET: This is CNN sister channel. How can you run that?
BEHAR: Why? It was perfectly clean. You mentioned a product, though. You mentioned Krisco. We`re not allowed to mention products. We`ll be back with more from Bob Saget in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAGET: I had an insecure moment. I didn`t think they (INAUDIBLE). They weren`t.
(SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. That`s my guest Bob Saget trying his hand at Spanish. On his new show A&E "Strange Days with Bob Saget." You know, you once said you were a cocky, overweight, 22-year-old.
SAGET: Right. I said that yesterday.
BEHAR: Yes. Were you fat?
SAGET: I thought so.
BEHAR: But were you really? Or did you have body dysmorphia?
SAGET: I was getting my private parts caught in my belt. I actually was very thin.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And then the other thing about you that is interesting --
SAGET: Thank you a lot. I had my appendix out when I was 21.
BEHAR: You had a near death experience when you were 21.
SAGET: I did.
BEHAR: Why? Did you have a peritonitis?
SAGET: I was playing Cleveland.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We`ve been there.
SAGET: Three shows on a Saturday.
BEHAR: Oh, my God.
SAGET: That would kill anybody.
BEHAR: Kill anybody.
SAGET: No. I did have peritonitis. How did you know?
BEHAR: I read about you.
SAGET: Wow. You read that?
BEHAR: You had gangrene and peritonitis.
SAGET: They put me in a private room because they were afraid that`s something`s going to happen.
BEHAR: So, you almost died?
SAGET: I did almost die.
BEHAR: How did they change you?
SAGET: It changed me.
BEHAR: It changed you to be funnier, I think.
SAGET: I think a lot of things -- my family has gone through a lot of stuff. So, we had so many things happen and so many losses, that`s how we dealt with it. That`s how my dad dealt with it, with gallows humor.
BEHAR: Right.
SAGET: And so, when I was really sick -- and I don`t even remember -- you don`t remember pain that much. You kind of are able to stuff it or don`t go there.
BEHAR: Well, how could you remember you don`t have it?
SAGET: Well, I was hoping to have a few more appendicitis, but can`t get that feeling.
BEHAR: Can`t get that back.
SAGET: No.
BEHAR: That loving feeling.
SAGET: I could go online and look up your surgeries.
BEHAR: I had one too. I had a near death experience in 1979.
SAGET: What was it?
BEHAR: I had an ectopic pregnancy which exploded in me and ruptured and I bled internally and almost died and it changed me. I let my hair go curly, for example. That was my big move.
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: Right. Just screeched out.
BEHAR: Yes. And I threw myself into comedy because I figured, you know, what am I going to do? How much worse could it be to die on stage? I almost actually died.
SAGET: Right. You`re married.
BEHAR: I am not married. Are you proposing to me?
SAGET: No.
BEHAR: Because you`re getting into my age bracket almost. I understand you`re 54.
SAGET: No.
BEHAR: And you were upset that Leslie Nielsen died.
SAGET: I am upset about that.
BEHAR: Because he was 54.
SAGET: How do you go to such dark places and yet you make me want to smile?
BEHAR: I`m the queen of the segue.
SAGET: It seems wrong. I loved Leslie Nielsen.
BEHAR: We all did.
SAGET: He was hilarious. I get my news from my girlfriend because I don`t really talk to many people.
BEHAR: Oh, you have a girlfriend?
SAGET: Pardon me?
BEHAR: You have a girlfriend.
SAGET: Well, you asked if I was proposing to you, so this is my way out. I want you, but I`m only one man.
BEHAR: I know. It`s true. I need more than one. How many times have you been married?
SAGET: I was married one time.
BEHAR: Just once and you have three children from that marriage?
SAGET: Yes.
BEHAR: Three daughters.
SAGET: Am I on trial?
(LAUGHTER)
SAGET: Is there going to be a cross examination?
BEHAR: Is this girl that you`re engaged? Are you engaged?
SAGET: No.
BEHAR: Oh, just dating.
SAGET: Yes.
BEHAR: How long have you been dating?
SAGET: Pardon me?
BEHAR: How long?
SAGET: How sick were you? Tell me -- did it hurt?
BEHAR: The near death?
SAGET: Yes
BEHAR: Oh, let`s not dwell on that. Let`s just laugh. I love those things that go, live, love, laugh!
SAGET: Very (INAUDIBLE). You got to go, right?
BEHAR: I got to go. Say it fast.
SAGET: "Strange days."
BEHAR: I`m promoting it.
SAGET: Made me appreciate life this year, and I went through many different experiences that were kind of life changing. Like honestly.
BEHAR: Well, I think it`s a terrific show. It`s called "Strange Days with Bob Saget." It premieres tonight at 10:00 on A&E.
Goodnight, everybody. Goodnight.
END
