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Joy Behar Page
Elizabeth Edwards Dies; Cho vs. Palin
Aired December 07, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: We begin with sad news tonight. Elizabeth Edwards, wife of former presidential candidate John Edwards, lost her long battle with cancer earlier today. Her family released a statement which reads in part, "Today we have lost the comfort of Elizabeth`s presence but she remains the heart of this family. We love her and will never know anyone more inspiring or full of life."
Here now to remember her are Karen Finney, a friend of Elizabeth`s who was her director of communications in the 2004 presidential campaign; Betsy Gleick, executive editor of "People" magazine and Dr. Sanjay Gupta, CNN`s chief medical correspondent.
Welcome to the show.
Sanjay, we found out yesterday that Elizabeth was going to stop treatment. Do you think -- did you think this was going to happen so quickly?
DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: No, I didn`t actually. And one of the sources I think someone close to the family said, you know, obviously things were dire but they made it sound more like this was -- that Elizabeth Edwards might pass on weeks from now. So my guess is that perhaps, you know, she had been in the hospital, I think I heard, over Thanksgiving and then released.
At some point the decision was made to continue to treat symptoms, Joy, you know, make sure there`s no pain. Treat things like nausea but not focusing on the cancer, trying to control the cancer as much. And I think at that point probably, you know, that decision was made. They knew that this was going to happen at some point but it`s hard to know exactly what the time course was.
BEHAR: Right. Karen, it seemed very abrupt.
KAREN FINNEY, FRIEND OF ELIZABETH EDWARDS: Yes, well, you know, it was and it wasn`t. And I`m sure Dr. Gupta will know that what we were told is that it could be a matter of, you know, could be a short period of time, it could be a longer period of time. It is very hard to judge because remember, as you said, it is a long bout with cancer.
I mean I remember when she was first diagnosed in 2004. And so this has been a struggle for a number of years and I think her body just couldn`t take it anymore.
BEHAR: Couldn`t take it. It`s been very long for her.
This woman has gone through a lot.
FINNEY: Yes.
BEHAR: She`s been battling cancer since 2004. Her son died when he was just 16 years old. Her husband publicly cheated on her and fathered a child with another woman. Listen to what she told Larry King earlier this year.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY, KING, CNN HOST: Is resilience something you learn you have when misfortune occurs?
ELIZABETH EDWARDS, WIFE OF JOHN EDWARDS: I think that is probably true of a lot of people, you know, who --
KING: How do we know how we`ll handle something until we have to handle it?
EDWARDS: You don`t. And I think most people -- I don`t think that I`m special in any way -- that most people do pull themselves together and do what it is they need to be done. Sometimes you`re thrown for a loop for a little while and then you start to reclaim. I think it is that getting back on the right path, that`s the hard part.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Karen, the woman was the definition of resilience it seemed, right?
FINNEY: Absolutely, absolutely. I mean it was amazing. You know in 2004, you think this woman has probably endured the worse thing possible, come out the other side, a strong person, a giving person. And then to see her go through this and, you know, it`s just listening to that clip, you know, she would always say -- we would say you`re so great or people would say on the rope lines she`s so great. She would say I`m just a regular person. And she really believed that. I mean she really -- she wasn`t putting on airs. She was just a very genuine person.
BEHAR: She was heroic in many ways. I mean a lot of people who do heroic things always say that.
FINNEY: Yes, because they don`t -- they don`t realize sometimes the inspiration they provide to the rest of us.
BEHAR: I guess not.
Betsy, you`ve covered a lot of the story of Elizabeth Edwards and John.
BETSY GLEICK, "PEOPLE" MAGAZINE: Yes, we have, yes.
BEHAR: There was something about her. I`ve met her also a few times. She`s very relatable.
GLEICK: Yes.
BEHAR: What is it about her? She inspires women, I think.
GLEICK: I think she says -- I mean on that clip, I`m not special but obviously she was special. She was -- she had a sort of every woman quality. And the more she went through, I think, the more relatable she became.
BEHAR: Yes.
GLEICK: And the saga just became almost Shakespearean. I mean it was just kind of unbelievable. Thing after thing after thing and yet she really did in her books and in her encounters with other people, she maintained this very approachable, regular quality that our readers really respond to.
BEHAR: Yes. There`s no question about it.
GLEICK: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean to endure -- first of all losing a child has got to be the worst thing that ever happens to anybody and then to have a husband who, you know, I mean, they had a long marriage and I guess she forgave a lot of that. What do I know? You know?
FINNEY: I think she made peace with a lot of it, you know, recognizing her health situation. I think she had to in these last weeks and months.
You know, I wanted to just highlight something you said because she really was an inspiration to women and I think a lot of times people didn`t think of her that way but here was a woman, accomplished in her own right. She was a lawyer. She clerked for a prominent judge. She`d worked in the AG`s office for the state of North Carolina and raised four children. And two presidential campaigns and, oh by the way, battling breast cancer.
I mean this woman is pretty incredible just if you look at her accomplishments in her life. And I think she represents what all of us as women trying to figure out how to balance everything. I think that`s what women really related to.
GLEICK: And her beautiful books. I mean she was a best-selling author and she wrote these books herself.
BEHAR: Right. She sure did.
Sanjay, was there a point where Elizabeth thought she could beat this?
GUPTA: I think so. You know, I think in 2004, you know, she was very open about this and talked quite a bit about the fact that she got chemotherapy which is often given first, Joy. Sometimes that surprises people. Chemotherapy, to shrink the tumor and then the tumor was removed. Radiation was given to try and make sure there were no microscopic cells left.
At that point, you know, doctors really help their teams or thinking let`s try and make it so someone doesn`t have to deal with this disease again. Cure is not a word they use very often but beating it perhaps.
After it spread to her bones, then it was more -- not it has spread, but can we still control this?
I think when there was evidence that it had spread to her liver, as well, then I think the thinking -- it`s a tough decision but I think the thinking at that point changes. You know, should we focus more on taking care of symptoms as opposed to the cancer? Because it just may not be productive to try and keep treating the cancer.
BEHAR: Karen, you were with her when she first found out that she had cancer. How did she handle the news?
FINNEY: You know, very much the way I think you would have expected her to. It was the weekend before the election and she was very sort of pragmatic and practical about. And said, ok, I got to deal with this. And, you know, going to have to tell her husband, John. And, you know, and it was so interesting because it was maybe Friday, Saturday before the election --
BEHAR: She started with breast cancer, I understand?
FINNEY: It was breast cancer, yes. So most of us thought we`re probably not going to campaign because you`re going to want to start treatment. She said, what`s three more days? I want to do everything I can to the last minute on this campaign and so, you know, that was what we did.
And I remember John Kerry even called her and said, you know, do what you have to do to take care of yourself so after the speech at Faneuil Hall when Kerry conceded, she got in the car and went to the hospital and started her treatment then. And she was very optimistic --
BEHAR: Was she frightened?
FINNEY: No, I think she was very positive about it. I think she had a sort of inner strength and peace and grace. And you know, one of the things she writes about in her first book in particular about how she took energy and strength from the people that she talked to. I know she`s talked about that a lot. I think she -- you know, that`s where the reserve of hope and she just, again, she was like, ok, what`s our plan? You know? We are going to take care of this.
BEHAR: Pragmatic.
FINNEY: Yes.
BEHAR: All right. What about the children, Betsy? Did she prepare them for this possibility?
GLEICK: Yes, yes. She did. I mean, she has -- she has been battling this disease for a number of years. It has come back. It`s -- you know, she`s had a lot of treatment and over the years she has been -- we have reported in the magazine she was writing a dying letter to her children.
She was going through possessions, she was -- she was preparing them. But of course, they`re really little.
BEHAR: They`re small. How old are the kids?
GLEICK: 10 and 12.
BEHAR: That`s rough.
FINNEY: And don`t forget --
GLEICK: And then Kate who`s in her 20s.
BEHAR: That is rough on children. I`m sorry. Having gone through a public affair with the whole thing with their father --
GLEICK: Right.
BEHAR: And then they lost -- they weren`t born -- the first child who died, the 16-year-old -- that was before all the other children except for the older one, right?
GLEICK: Right.
FINNEY: Wade was the first child and then Kate and then Jack and Emma Claire came later.
BEHAR: Yes. You know I -- maybe this is a silly question, I have to ask it anyway Sanjay. How much is stress involved in these diseases that people get? What do you think about that?
GUPTA: Well, you know, it`s an interesting thing because typically we think about this in the other way, meaning that someone who is optimistic, who`s hopeful, who, you know, does not have stress, there have been pretty good studies now, not just anecdotal studies but pretty good studies showing that those patients can have better outcomes.
You`d expect the inverse to be true Joy, meaning you know someone that has a lot of stress, cortisol levels are high, their body`s immune system not as able to fight some of these cancer-producing cells. You know, it`s hard to say but I -- I think it plays a role. I as a neuro surgeon I take care of a lot of neuro-type tumors and I`m convinced it plays some sort of role.
BEHAR: I think it does.
FINNEY: How can it not? I mean we learn all the time about, you know, the stressors and the impact that they have, you know, on our health and well-being.
BEHAR: I mean, obviously, people have to have healthy lifestyles, too. But I think that stress especially with the diseases that rely on a good immune system, you know?
FINNEY: And I think one thing that Elizabeth would probably want me to remind women is that this is why it`s important to get your mammograms. And she wrote about this actually in her book, that honestly, she hadn`t gotten her mammogram in a couple of years. And this is a good reminder.
And it`s one of the things that she did so beautifully when she -- after she was diagnosed is became a real advocate for health care and, you know, again reminding women the importance of taking care of ourselves.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much. We`ll be right back with some more on this subject.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back talking about Elizabeth Edwards who passed away earlier today from cancer at the age of 61. Joining the conversation is Gloria Borger, CNN senior political analyst.
Gloria, John Edwards was at her side despite their separation.
GLORIA BORGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
BEHAR: Did -- did that surprise you?
BORGER: Yes, a little bit, except that he is the father of her children. And she was a mother first. And she was very tough on him in her book called "Resilience". She made it very clear --
BEHAR: Yes.
BORGER: -- that she thought that John Edwards should not have run for the presidency the second time knowing what he knew. And she felt that that had been a bad mistake and she, you know, was a very complex women as you all have been talking about. And so, it was clear that there was still a lot of anger towards him.
But he is the father of her children. And I think that`s the most important thing of all to any mother.
BEHAR: Right.
BORGER: And so, I can imagine that there were things that needed to be said.
BEHAR: Do you think she made peace with him?
KAREN FINNEY, FRIEND OF ELIZABETH EDWARDS: I do. And I think it speaks to her character and I would want people to know that. You know, remember, having suffered a tragic loss herself she knows that her children need their father at a time like this. And she -- again, remarkable grace and strength and courage to say, we`ve got to get passed this because my children have to be ok. So I -- you know, again I think it speaks to just the person that she was.
BEHAR: Yes.
Let me read a statement that she posted on her Facebook page. She said, "The days of our lives for all of us are numbered. We know that. And yet there -- and yes, there are certainly times when we are -- we aren`t able to muster as much strength and patience as we would like. It`s called being human. But I have found that in the simple act of living with hope and in the daily effort to have a positive impact in the world, the days I do have are made all the more meaningful and precious and for that I am grateful."
She was really quite a girl.
FINNEY: She really was and an amazing writer.
BEHAR: Yes.
FINNEY: She really was.
BORGER: You know, Joy --
BEHAR: Yes.
BORGER: The thing that was so great about -- about her was that in a way she kind of humanized John Edwards. From the -- you know, the first time I met her, she was on a liquid diet. She was always joking about the fact that here she was married to this perfect man who was --
BEHAR: Yes.
BORGER: -- handsome and a great politician and she was struggling with her weight. And I remember I was at CBS News at the time and we all took them to dinner and there she was drinking a glass of water right?
BEHAR: Yes.
BORGER: During the entire meal because she was determined to lose this weight that she had gained having these children. And so she was just this wonderful counterweight to John Edwards, although a lawyer in her own right and so smart and so creative. She was also just a lot of fun to be with on the campaign trail. She was tough, as Karen can tell you, to the staff; very, very tough.
FINNEY: I don`t think -- she was always right. That`s the problem. It`s not tough. It`s right.
BEHAR: But sometimes you get a reputation for being tough just because you know what you`re doing.
FINNEY: Well and sometimes I think, also, if you`re a woman and you`re tough, you`re going to get a certain label put on you that you don`t if you`re a man.
BORGER: You think?
FINNEY: Hmm. Have we ever seen that happen before?
BEHAR: No.
FINNEY: But it was -- she was -- here`s the problem. She was incredibly smart and her instincts, her political instincts, her instincts about people were almost always right. So you kind of had to go with it because she was going to be right in the end anyway.
BEHAR: Yes. And in -- and in 2007 when her cancer came back, she wanted John to continue his presidential campaign so she was really -- she was just fighting all the time, wasn`t she?
FINNEY: She was. And I think, you know, she really -- you know, her life was also marked by service. I mean, after Wade passed, you know, they thought, ok, how can we constructively turn this into a good thing and they started a foundation in his name so I think for her the idea of service and serving the country I think she really believe that was important.
BEHAR: Yes.
Sanjay, were you surprised that she kept going with the campaign despite the medical condition that she had?
SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know, I think that as a -- as a doctor certainly you know we -- it`s important to note that you know, we want to get people treated as quickly as possible. And what I think people are sometimes surprised by just how quickly some of these tumors can grow. But I`m not surprised based on everything that I have read about her and had a -- had a chance to meet her that she -- that she did that and you know she talked about you know what will three days make a difference?
You know, I think the medical profession, obviously, wants people get treated as quickly as possible but that behavior doesn`t -- doesn`t surprise me.
BEHAR: You are not a psychiatrist, I know that, Sanjay. But I mean, I`ll tell you the truth, if I had to deal with what she had to deal with, I would have been raging. I would have been raging. Was she raging at all?
FINNEY: No. That`s not the woman that I knew.
BEHAR: Even when she found out about Rielle Hunter and all this other stuff that was going on with her husband?
(CROSSTALK)
BORGER: Yes.
FINNEY: Yes I think like anybody she had --
BEHAR: Gloria, you would have raged, right?
BORGER: Yes. And I think she did, too. Right? I mean, honestly --
(CROSSTALK)
FINNEY: She had emotion about it obviously.
BORGER: -- I`m not sure she raged -- she wrote about it quite --
FINNEY: Yes.
BORGER: -- quite honestly. It was very clear how angry she was. I think that, you know, she didn`t -- she didn`t really hide that.
FINNEY: Right.
BORGER: At all.
But and on -- on the other hand she didn`t really dwell on it publicly.
FINNEY: That`s right.
BORGER: You know, she went on to talk about the issues that she cared about, most recently of which was, of course, health care reform.
GUPTA: Right.
BORGER: I mean, that what was her huge issue.
FINNEY: And -- and that`s the thing about her. That I think you know even -- of course she was mad. I mean, who wouldn`t be, right? She deserves to be.
BORGER: I know I would.
FINNEY: I would, too. But she, you know, understood, ok, I`ve got to move through this, I`ve got to work through this, I`ve got to get back to - -
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
FINNEY: -- I`m a mother. I`ve got you know, issues that I care about. I`m not going to let this --
BEHAR: Right.
FINNEY: -- stop me. And that`s, again, a testament to her character.
BEHAR: Isn`t it -- isn`t it a good idea, Sanjay, for let`s say cancer patients to be angry and raging against -- against that dark night as they say? Isn`t it good thing to do, therapeutic?
GUPTA: Well, you know to the extent that it -- it galvanizes them in some way. I mean, she certainly had a lot of support around her and I you know, I guess that`s being reinforced though, listening to this discussion today.
You know, I mean, look. It`s -- it`s one of these things where obviously you want someone`s, you know, stress levels to be as low as possible, the cortisol. You can -- you can sort of predict the perfect environment for someone to have you know the best chance of recovery and I -- and I think raging or -- or being in a -- in a very stressful situation wouldn`t be it.
But to the extent that people really rallied behind her, encouraged her to -- to -- to be very, you know, diligent about her care and all of that, that obviously -- that -- that can have a good effect.
BORGER: Well -- you know, I -- I think that the key to her was that she wasn`t going to be a victim of anything.
GUPTA: Right, right.
BORGER: -- whether it was the cancer or whether it was her husband`s infidelity. You know, she`s a -- was a -- saw herself as a survivor.
FINNEY: Yes.
BORGER: And that`s how she behaved and she had these young children.
BEHAR: Right.
BORGER: That she had to take care of.
BEHAR: That`s right. So that`s the thing that I thought about her. The children came first.
FINNEY: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And her personal issues were going to take second seat to that.
Ok. Thanks very much, everybody.
BORGER: Sure.
BEHAR: We`re very sad about this.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Comedian Margaret Cho blogged about Bristol Palin last week and set off a firestorm by writing that Sarah Palin forced Bristol to appear on "Dancing with the Stars" so Sarah could win favor with the American public.
Bristol then fired back on her Facebook page writing, "I will give my friend credit for creativity and extra points for getting so many facts wrong in so few sentences."
Did anybody think that Sarah is just being a good mother like Angela Lansbury in "The Manchurian Candidate"?
Joining me is comedian and "Dancing with the Stars" contestant and apparently Bristol Palin`s BFF, Miss Margaret Cho.
Hello, Margaret.
MARGARET CHO, COMEDIAN: Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: Listen. First of all, before we go any further, I heard you were nominated for a Grammy for your album, "Cho Dependent". Congratulations. That is nice.
CHO: Thank you, thank you. I got nominated for Grammy and I got so drunk with power that I had to write something.
Well, this was all -- you know, I feel like the whole reason I wanted to write about Bristol was just because I, I mean, I was hearing the stuff backstage. You know, I had a lot of time to gossip because I wasn`t dancing.
BEHAR: Right.
CHO: I just -- you know, supposed Sarah had forced Bristol to do "Dancing with the Stars" and I really believed it just because meeting Bristol, especially at the beginning, she was so painfully shy and I thought what`s this poor girl doing here? And it just seemed like a whole political -- just a big plan, you know? It just seemed like this complete conspiracy.
BEHAR: I know, but it was second-hand information, right? Now it is your word against Bristol`s because -- why did you decide, you know. That`s kind of --
CHO: Yes. But it`s just gossip. But you know gossip is often true and especially from this extreme reaction from Sarah Palin`s speechwriter because I don`t think Bristol said any of those -- I mean, I don`t think Bristol could have said the things she said on the blog because I don`t know any of the words she used so that might be my -- you know, I`m going up against her speechwriter.
BEHAR: Yes. Ok. All right.
Well, she didn`t write that stuff, I don`t think. I doubt it. But somebody wrote it for her.
CHO: I doubt it. Yes, yes, obviously.
BEHAR: So Bristol called you a friend. Are you two really friends?
CHO: Well, I think she`s a really sweet girl and I have no problem with her, whatsoever. What I do have a problem with is Sarah Palin running for president and using reality television as her platform.
BEHAR: Ok. Now Carrie Ann --
CHO: If she wants to run, she should just be open about it.
BEHAR: I know. But now Carrie Ann Inaba -- is that her name, Inaba? Carrie Ann -- one of the judges -- she`s so cute. I love her. But she said that she doesn`t want anymore Palins on the show. She really doesn`t feel that it should be used for political purposes because I guess people believe that the Tea Party kept voting for Bristol.
CHO: Exactly. Exactly. But I mean, I really do think that all this gossip of Sarah Palin forcing Bristol to do it is true just because the reaction has been so extreme. ABC even asked me to retract what I said. I`m like, what are you going to do? Vote me off again?
BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly. Well, congratulations Margaret, again, on the Grammy nod.
CHO: Thank you.
BEHAR: You know what you`re going to be wearing? Because I was thinking maybe you should borrow something from Lady Gaga, wear something pastrami perhaps or a corned beef revere (ph) or something like that.
CHO: That sounds wonderful. I have a turd costume from one of my videos so I`m Lady Caca (ph). I`m the logical conclusion to the meat dress.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Good to see you again.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, the woman who claims Brett Favre sent her inappropriate text messages says she`ll release more if the NFL doesn`t punish the star quarterback. And 1990s pop icons Wilson Phillips are here to talk about reuniting for their new Christmas album. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: How can you tell there are no gays in the military? Here`s how. Kathy Griffin told a joke in front of the troops about Bristol Palin and got boo`d. That`s how. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We got two words, Bristol Palin. Yes. That`s right. She`s the only contestant in the history of the show to actually gain weight. No, come on. Come on. She gained like 30 pounds a week. I swear to God. It was fantastic. She`s like the white precious. She`s like the white precious. You can boo louder than that. Come on, boo me. I love it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. That was from VH1`s "Diva`s Salute The Troops." And now, Kathy Griffin and Bristol Palin are going at it. With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news are Rob Shuter, AOL`s "Popeater" columnist, Deidre Hall, "Days of our Lives" actress who is celebrating the 45th anniversary of the show, and Dan Fogler, comedic actor and author of "Moon Lake." Hello. So, what do you think of Kathy`s fat joke?
DAN FOGLER, AUTHOR, "MOON LAKE": Well, I think -- I mean, you know, why is she doing fat jokes at all?
DEIDRE HALL, ACTRESS: Yes.
BEHAR: Why is she doing fat jokes?
FOGLER: Yes. I mean, and why is her audience concerned with the "Dancing with the Stars" show at all?
BEHAR: They`re not concerned. They`re concerned with Bristol Palin, I think.
FOGLER: Right.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
FOGLER: They`re concerned with -- I mean, I feel -- I feel bad that - - I think this is more of a statement about where our world is with our body image than --
BEHAR: Well, that`s true. That`s true. But you know, people always ask me as a comedian is there anything off limits, you know, like abortion, for example. But that, fat jokes are not off limits really.
ROB SHUTER, AOL`S "POPEATER" COLUMNIST: I think fat jokes are funny.
BEHAR: They should be maybe.
HALL: I think fat jokes are -- so many people in our population, you`ve got to be very careful.
BEHAR: It offends a lot of people.
HALL: So many people --
BEHAR: Including my fat tush, you know what I mean?
SHUTER: But I also think, too, when you hire Kathy Griffin, you know what you`re getting. Like they didn`t hire Julie Andrews. This is Kathy Griffin. They knew she was going to come out and make fun, and I think she delivered what she was expected to do.
BEHAR: But the troops were not her audience for this.
SHUTER: She has been on tour there. This girl did a lot of tours. But she`s met troops, and she does know what that crowd is like.
BEHAR: Well, then this was a mistake.
SHUTER: Or was it something so that she could win them back which she certainly did. I don`t know those tricks as comedians, but sometimes, a bad joke sets you up then to deliver some knock outs.
FOGLER: Hit me with the wave of -- keep it coming, because it sounds like something else.
BEHAR: But she did -- it`s not relating to them. If she said General Petraeus was fat, that might have gotten a laugh. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
HALL: I think also attacking somebody`s child makes people very uncomfortable.
SHUTER: But at 20 years old and doing "Dancing with the Stars," I don`t think she`s a kid anymore.
FOGLER: Those things are very stressful, man. I was on tour with Scooby-Doo, and I think I gained about 50 pounds.
BEHAR: Well, who wouldn`t with Scooby-Doo? I mean, I would gain a -- OK. Now, Bristol responded to Griffin`s joke telling Fox News, the audience`s reaction to this "comedian"-- she put in quotes, spoke volumes and the decent people I know would probably have boo`d her, too. I hope people didn`t pay money to hear her negativity and criticism. Dan, that`s a kind of a classy response in the Margaret Cho gay -- the gay joke that she did the other day, isn`t it?
FOGLER: I guess so. I mean, you know --
BEHAR: You`re not feeling it. You`re not feeling it.
FOGLER: Gay jokes and fat jokes. Come on. Get better material.
BEHAR: Well, you know what? Everything is on the table for material. It`s a question of how funny and how accepting it is by the audience. That`s what comedy is. You are a comedian.
FOGLER: You know, I did stand-up a while ago. I`m an actor.
BEHAR: You`re an actor. So, it`s a little different. You`re a little bit more cautious when you`re an actor.
FOGLER: I guess so.
BEHAR: I don`t know. I defend comics because we go out. They were on a limb. We`re naked. Everybody else is dressed, you know?
SHUTER: And it`s one out of a million jokes. She was up there for about an hour, and it was one out of all those jokes that she told all night that didn`t work. So, no one`s focusing on, I think, the jokes that did really work. She`s funny.
BEHAR: Yes, she is funny. You know, by the way, Judge Carrie Ann Inaba, you know, she`s the only one so far who said no more Palins on "Dancing with the Stars."
SHUTER: Good for her.
BEHAR: She`s the only who said that. OK. here`s another story. A "Modern Family" star, Ed O`Neill says that Jane Lynch didn`t serve the Emmy for her performance on "Glee" and suggested his onscreen wife, Sofia Vergara, was more deserving. Come now, Ed. We all know there are no losers on award night. Just people who don`t win anything, OK?
(LAUGHTER)
FOGLER: Yikes.
BEHAR: OK. Rob, sour grapes?
SHUTER: I love this. I love that for the first time someone`s telling the truth. They all think this. I`ve been at so many award shows where they smile afterwards and pretend that they`re really happy. They`re not. They`re really pissed. They want to win.
BEHAR: They want to win.
SHUTER: And I love that he said it.
HALL: Of course, they want to win.
SHUTER: They want to win.
BEHAR: Yes. Were you -- you`ve won an Emmy, I`m sure, Deidre.
HALL: I`ve won a number of awards, and I think it`s always better to win than to lose.
(LAUGHTER)
FOGLER: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Well, he said that her creation, her character creation, of Sue Sylvester is just a one-note character. What do you think about that statement?
HALL: I haven`t actually seen the show. So, I can`t comment on it.
BEHAR: Well, what do you think of the statement? I`m just giving you the statement. Sue Sylvester is just a one-note character.
HALL: I wouldn`t want it said about one of my performances. So, it`s not a kind thing to hear.
BEHAR: OK.
HALL: But you have a thought about it?
FOGLER: I haven`t seen the show, either, but I think that she won because of her history of work. I mean, she`s -- you got to go and check her. A lot of award shows you win for --
BEHAR: But this is an Emmy. This is not a lifetime achievement award.
(CROSSTALK)
FOGLER: No. Of course not. But they think about what you`ve done in the past. It`s not just for one performance a lot of times.
BEHAR: He threw her a compliment. He said that he`d like to work with her on a Christopher Guest movie. She`s very funny.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know, exactly.
SHUTER: Going to be calling you for anything, my friend. It`s over.
BEHAR: Yes, I know. Not exactly the way.
FOGLER: And he probably has a little crush on Sofia.
BEHAR: Well, now, you`re getting into a territory that I would agree with you.
FOGLER: Hello!
BEHAR: Because I think there`s something there. Maybe he`s got a little crush-ette on his co-star. She happens to be a gorgeous woman.
SHUTER: She`s gorgeous.
BEHAR: So, maybe that`s what this is about. You know, when Mr. Happy gets hard, the brain gets soft.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Another one --
HALL: I almost said that myself.
BEHAR: Speaking of which --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Remember when Brett Favre allegedly sent a picture of his privates -- you know what that means -- to Jenn Stergen. I think her name is Sterger.
SHUTER: Stergen.
BEHAR: Now, she says, this woman says, if the NFL doesn`t punish him, she`ll release more evidence. What else does she got? Pictures of his pancreas?
(LAUGHTER)
SHUTER: You really have to wonder, I mean, the pictures that are out there are pretty graphic, and he looks very excited in these pictures. I can`t imagine what else he would have out there that he sent to her.
BEHAR: Exactly.
HALL: I happen to know Brett, and I know him to be a lovely, generous --
BEHAR: How well do you know him?
HALL: I know him just well enough, OK? Just well enough. And he`s been good to my family, to my children. I`ve seen him do incredibly generous, kind things behind the scenes and I -- my feeling about this, not that I`m sticking up for my friend so much is that men can behave badly. And how did this happen to get into the press, anyway?
BEHAR: What? That his penis was sent to her?
(CROSSTALK)
FOGLER: She released it.
HALL: It`s nobody`s business from hers and his and his wife`s. I just feel like --
BEHAR: Oh, honey, you know, I mean, when you know, honey, my dear, I love you, when you`re in show business, everything is out there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: This is not a question of -- when you`re a big -- what is he? A football player?
HALL: He`s a brilliant football player.
BEHAR: He`s a brilliant football player allegedly sends a picture of his penis to a woman and that`s not going to get out? Come on.
FOGLER: Yes. He was stupid for that doing that. He shouldn`t have done that.
SHUTER: And it looks like he sent many more. She seems to have a lot more body parts.
FOGLER: The whole breakdown. The evolution of his --
BEHAR: The Brett Favre collection.
(LAUGHTER)
FOGLER: The golden years.
BEHAR: Smithsonian.
FOGLER: I`m just worried about -- you know, I once sent a picture of my sheleli (ph) with happy face on it to my wife just as a joke.
BEHAR: You know, I wouldn`t even do that because you could get a divorce and then she could send it to this woman whatever her name is, Jenn Sterger.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And Jenn Sterger will release it.
FOGLER: Stergen or Sterger?
BEHAR: Whatever. OK. I have a couple of more quickies here. First of all, how would Stern`s $100 million contract that expires on December 31st and his boss over at Sirius XM -- his boss says he might have to take a pay cut. You know, thank goodness just in time for all the pay cuts, tax cuts and all these multimillionaires again.
HALL: I know. Poor thing.
BEHAR: Yes. I feel sorry for him. Do you think he`ll stay?
HALL: My sister was stopped on the street today oddly enough in New York doing a promo for the book at Barnes & Noble. Did I say that? Anyway, she was stopped an interview and asked questions about this. Questions were --
BEHAR: Any particular reason they stopped your sister?
HALL: Because we were walking there --
BEHAR: She didn`t have to have a picture of Brett Favre`s penis?
(LAUGHTER)
HALL: Not that I`ve heard about yet.
BEHAR: OK. Yes.
HALL: But they wanted to know what she would give him for Christmas if she were given a gift.
BEHAR: What she would give Howard Stern?
HALL: Yes.
BEHAR: And her answer was?
HALL: Class. Now, she`s a fifth grade teacher, OK? The next question was, should he take a pay cut?
BEHAR: And she said?
HALL: And she said, they pay him for that garbage?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So, she`s not a fan?
HALL: She speaks well for our family. I`ll just say that.
SHUTER: He`s an awfully talented broadcaster whether you like him or not.
FOGLER: He`s the voice of the people.
SHUTER: Absolutely.
BEHAR: He`s very talented.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: When you`ve got that many people following you, you can demand a lot of money. It sounds to me like some sort of corporate standoff here. That he`s not going to sign the contract until the last minute and get more money, but I predict he`ll end up signing.
BEHAR: I like -- people tell me, I haven`t had time to listen to his show lately, but they say that when he says his staff is, what are you guys going to do if I leave? You better -- I mean, as if they`re a bunch of losers over there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He`s not exactly the greatest reference either. I mean, where`s he going to go, you know? OK. Thank you so much, everybody. We`ll be back in just a bit.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: They were the best selling female pop group of the 1990s known for hits like "Hold on" and "Release Me." Now, Wilson Phillips is reuniting and releasing their first holiday album, "Christmas In Harmony." Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING) Oh, I wish it could be Christmas every day like the bells ring out for Christmas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m happy to welcome to my show the members of Wilson Phillips. Carnie, Chynna and Wendy. The lovely Wilson Phillips.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS, MEMBER, WILSON PHILLIPS: Thank you.
BEHAR: What made you, guys, decide to get back together again?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Well, we knew we were going to definitely make another record. It was just a matter of when, and when Carney sort of kept hounding us about making a Christmas record, we said, well, now is the perfect time. It just seemed like all the stars were (INAUDIBLE) which just the right time to make a record.
CARNIE PHILLIPS, MEMBER, WILSON PHILLIPS: 20-year reunion, I though, we have to have something out there for people. It`s a special year.
BEHAR: It is. It`s a special year because --
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Twenty years. Twenty years that we`ve been together.
BEHAR: Time flies.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: It`s unbelievable.
BEHAR: Oh my, God. We were talking before trying to get you to figure you two out. You and Carnie, Wendy and Carnie are sisters.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Right.
BEHAR: We have a picture of you from Christmas when you were kids. Can we show that? There you are.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Aw.
BEHAR: Sitting on Santa`s lap.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes.
WENDY PHILLIPS, MEMBER, WILSON PHILLIPS: That`s right.
BEHAR: Did you like Santa?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I did.
BEHAR: My daughter never would sit on Santa`s lap. She thought he was a pervert.
(LAUGHTER)
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Santas are scary. They`re little scary. I just tripped out on the beard. I just tripped out on the beard.
WENDY PHILLIPS: I can`t remember it was so long ago.
(LAUGHTER)
WENDY PHILLIPS: You never want to go and get your picture taken with your kids taken with Santa at closing time because they`re so frustrated after a long day of being with children that you always get the angry Santa picture.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: The angry Santa.
BEHAR: Exactly.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: So, OK, Chynna, your father is John Phillips from the mamas and the papas. The most brilliant group besides the Beach Boys, obviously. And Mackenzie is your half sister, Mackenzie Phillips.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: OK. And you and you, Wendy and Carnie are from the Beach Boys.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Right.
BEHAR: Your father is Brian Wilson.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: And your mother?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Marilyn Wilson.
BEHAR: Marilyn Wilson.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Wonderful mother and great singer, too.
WENDY PHILLIPS: From the honeys.
BEHAR: She`s from the honeys. That was a group at the same time, I guess?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: 1960s girl group, yes.
BEHAR: And you made a Christmas album. You`re going to do every holiday like Easter, Rosh Hashanah?
(LAUGHTER)
WENDY PHILLIPS: We should.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I don`t know. We`ll see.
BEHAR: OK. So, now, let`s see. You have been open about your weight struggles over the years. We talked about it a little bit this morning.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: And you know, we were talking today about how, you know, this kid Bristol Palin is getting hit on by Kathy Griffin because of her weight gain during the "Dancing with the Stars".
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: Some people think it`s funny that they make a joke about her. What do you think?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Well, this is what I think is really funny. I actually auditioned for this season of "Dancing with the Stars" and I walked in and said I hate dancing, and they kind of like that because they want to turn you into a dancer. I was afraid of my hernia popping out. I probably would have gained 50 pounds if I had done that, and I would have been so nervous. But you know what, Kathy`s Kathy, and she`s going to do that. But I don`t even see what`s so funny about it. I didn`t find it funny. It`s like, so she gained weight? So what?
BEHAR: But because it`s a (ph) fat joke because, you know, someone makes a fat joke to me, I say, well, I could lose weight. You`re always going to be ugly.
(LAUGHTER)
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I just right now I`m letting things bounce off me. I`m letting them bounce off me because it`s negative energy.
BEHAR: It`s negative energy. You don`t want to hear it. You`re sick of the whole topic.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I`m sick of it. And it`s just, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She`s beautiful. But you know what, here`s the truth. She`s a little chubby, OK?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes, I am.
BEHAR: You, girls, are a couple of skinny bitches. And to be sitting -- you know what I mean?
(CROSSTALK)
CARNIE PHILLIPS: But you know what, I used to be completely tripped out and intimidated by it. And now, I just looked at it like we`re three moms. We`re three. We`re friends, we`re sisters, and we love what we do. And it doesn`t matter. I mean, health is important. Health is important. That`s --
BEHAR: That`s the only thing.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: That`s another issue.
BEHAR: It`s the only thing.
BEHAR: You`re sisters from the same, both parents, right?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: And yet, you never had a weight problem?
WENDY PHILLIPS: I never did.
BEHAR: So much for genetics.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Yes, exactly. What the hell happened?
BEHAR: OK. I`m off the fat topic now.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Please.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about Mackenzie.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She came out last year with some shocking revelations, that girl. And a lot of it we talked about on this show. I like her very much. She seems like a very sincere girl.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: She`s got a beautiful heart.
BEHAR: And when she did that, you started having panic attacks.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: I did.
BEHAR: And you went to rehab for anxiety.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes, I did.
BEHAR: That must have been a tough time for you.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: It was a tough time because I had difficulty absorbing the information. I had already known prior to the book release, of course.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: But I had only told a handful of my friends, and I had never truly processed it in therapy. I had just sort of tucked it away in a safe, nice little spot. And when it became public, I just did not really know how to deal head on --
BEHAR: How to respond to it.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: With everybody knowing. And I just felt extremely exposed and vulnerable. And it did kick in some anxiety, I have to admit.
BEHAR: It`s brutal to find -- did you believe her?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Well, yes.
BEHAR: You did?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: I believe her.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: Why would she make up something --
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: You have to be crazy. (INAUDIBLE). Who`s going to do that?
BEHAR: When you think of it, though, it`s your father, you know?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: It must make you wonder about him your whole life.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Well, I was not raised with my dad.
BEHAR: Lucky.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes. My father was a very talented, very creative, very wonderful man. He really was. The only thing was that he had a very serious heroin addiction.
BEHAR: He was a druggie.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: And unfortunately, even Keith Richards said, he runs way too hard for me, that cat. I cannot hang out with --
BEHAR: Oh, Keith Richards.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: If Keith Richards is saying it --
BEHAR: I`m sorry to laugh so loud.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: There`s a problem if Keith Richards --
(LAUGHTER)
CARNIE PHILLIPS: That`s intense.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You girls are fabulous. I love you. I really love you.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: We love you. You tell it like it is.
BEHAR: You`re so great. Now, and also, the other thing, this is the other thing about you. And I`ll get to Wendy in a second because you all have your little things that are so fabulous, but you filed for divorce from Billy Baldwin, your husband.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Big mistake.
BEHAR: He`s related to Alec Baldwin?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes, brothers.
BEHAR: His brother, right? And why would you ever wanted involve yourself with that family?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No, they`re great. I love Alec. And then you renewed your vows again.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes, we did.
BEHAR: So, what happened?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Well, OK. Basically, Billy got a little (INAUDIBLE) on me. And I said, you know what, back off (INAUDIBLE) OK. Just tell you right now. Back off. Because I`m a West Coast girl. I`m a little more Zen like don`t mess with me, all right? Like, you can have your little anger tantrums, but I`m not going to take the brunt of it. And so, I just needed -- listen. I was a child bride.
BEHAR: You were a child bride.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: I married him when I was 27.
BEHAR: That`s not a child bride.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Listen, we`ll be back with more for Wilson Phillips in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the recently reunited Wilson Phillips. Did you have anything to add about Billy Baldwin before I move on to Wendy?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Well, I mean, he told me (INAUDIBLE) you could have fought tooth and nail to try and get, you know separated for me, and it never would have happened because I would have never let you go.
BEHAR: Aw. So, you`re now happy and married again.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: You know what, we renewed our vows and we are both very serious about walking with God and we`re really happy with the way things are going.
BEHAR: Where are you going with god? What are you working?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: We`re walking all over with God. We really are.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: He`s crazy about her. Nuts about her.
BEHAR: Yes, he is.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Nuts about her.
BEHAR: Well, you know, a lot of people, they reach a point where they want to get a divorce and they do usually.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I had a seven-year itch. We had therapy.
BEHAR: How long are you married?
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Ten years.
BEHAR: Ten years.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: We fight like two odious (ph) people.
BEHAR: Everybody has the itch.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Like crazy. I mean, really bad.
BEHAR: But let me get to Wendy. You have a thing that was interesting to me. You have four young boys.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: And a neighbor suggested you go to see super nanny. Are your kids brats or what?
WENDY PHILLIPS: Well --
BEHAR: Look at how cute they are.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Thank you. I was a little bit insulted by that when she said, you know, there`s a casting call for super nanny. You should try it out.
BEHAR: Oh, God.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Yes., but I got the hint. I got the hint. She -- I mean, you know what? I just kind of said, I`m going to go for it. I`m going to be open-minded. And, yes, I could use the help.
BEHAR: So, you went to her?
WENDY PHILLIPS: Yes. I tried out just like everybody else.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: She was the first celebrity that did super nanny.
BEHAR: I love her. She was --
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Fabulous.
BEHAR: British chick, right? She stopped that. She doesn`t do it anymore.
(CROSSTALK)
CARNIE PHILLIPS: She`s helped a lot of people.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Wonderful woman.
BEHAR: She`s great. Any tips that you use?
WENDY PHILLIPS: I would say, yes. That schedule is key for when you have a big family. You have to keep everything regimented or you`re going to lose your mind. You know? So --
BEHAR: Right.
WENDY PHILLIPS: That`s really the main thing I took from it.
BEHAR: OK. Chynna, how did your parents come up with the name? These are Twitter questions now. People want to know this.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: OK. Well, basically, it was between North Vietnam and China.
BEHAR: The 1960s.
WENDY PHILLIPS: Is that a lie?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: No. That is not a lie.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: I`ve never heard that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Hanoi maybe.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: It`s slightly intense.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: North Vietnam Phillips?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No nickname for that. Viet maybe.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Yes.
BEHAR: And what was the other one?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: North Vietnam.
BEHAR: And --
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: No. North Vietnam or Anastasia. And my father said it sounds too much like anesthesia.
BEHAR: Anastasia. That`s pretty.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: And he wanted Anastasia which is a gorgeous name.
BEHAR: Beautiful.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: But it does sound a lot like anesthesia.
BEHAR: It does. People would like you to sing a little harmony.
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Oh, sure.
BEHAR: A cappella.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: OK. What are we singing?
CHYNNA PHILLIPS: Should we sing in my room or Christmas time.
(SINGING)
BEHAR: You know what? I wish I could have you here every day.
CARNIE PHILLIPS: Thank you.
BEHAR: The new album is "Christmas in Harmony." Good night, everybody.
END
