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Joy Behar Page
The World According to Trump; Tax Cut Fallout
Aired December 08, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Reports say that Sarah Palin has really been getting into the Christmas spirit. Trimming her tree and sending out holiday cards and shooting Donner and Blitzen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOE BEHAR SHOW with rumors of a 2012 presidential run swirling, Donald Trump is here to set the record straight. He`ll tell Joy if the tax cuts are good for the country and if he is.
Then Oprah opens up to Barbara Walters about her unique relationship with Gail King.
Plus, Florence Henderson talks about her turn on "Dancing with the Stars" and life after Mrs. Brady. That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: President Obama is being slammed by House Democrats who say he caved in to Republicans with this tax cut compromise benefiting all Americans. Sure. But none more so than the rich.
With me is someone who knows a lot about business and a lot about being rich. He`s the host of "Celebrity Apprentice". Donald Trump. Hello, Donald.
DONALD TRUMP, HOST, "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE": Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: How are you?
TRUMP: I`m very, very good. I wish I could be with you.
BEHAR: I know. Well, you`re only -- you`re not that far away. Why couldn`t you be with me?
TRUMP: I don`t know. I would have done it. Somebody had to put a little more pressure on me. That`s unlike you.
BEHAR: Because they said you absolutely wouldn`t. If I knew that, I would have come and put more pressure on you personally.
TRUMP: Well, I wish -- next time you will do that. I will be will there, I promise.
BEHAR: Ok. All right.
Now anyway, let`s talk about politics. Are you happy with Obama`s tax cut compromise? Do you think it`s good for the country?
TRUMP: Well, I think you right now have very little choice Joy. The country is doing very poorly. Businesses are doing horribly. And I think you probably have very little choice to raise taxes at this for anybody including the rich, I mean would be very, very catastrophic, I believe.
Now, you know, it`s the world of economics. So, who really knows? But it just seems like it would be a very inappropriate time.
So, they did the two-year extension for the most part. I mean they got some changes. And Obama got some things for himself too. But they did the extension. And it`s probably the right thing to do at this time.
BEHAR: You think so? I mean I was reading that someone making over $14 million a year will continue to keep $600,000. I don`t think that they would have even felt that. You know, we might have been able to reduce the deficit if we took a little money off the top of these people.
TRUMP: Well, you know, our great economists think that you`re wrong. I`m not sure that you`re wrong, frankly, but a lot of people think that you`re not correct on that point. And it will be interesting to see what happens.
Now, is the economy getting better? You look all over the country, you see businesses going out. And it probably would be a risky thing right now, Joy, to start raising taxes, even for the wealthy.
BEHAR: Ok. Well, you say that to me and maybe you`re right but Warren Buffett disagrees with you. I want you to watch something that he said. Ok.
TRUMP: Ok.
BEHAR: Let`s listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WARREN BUFFETT, CHAIRMAN & CEO, BERKSHIRE HATHAWAY: The rich are always going to say that, you know, just give us more money and we`ll go out and spend more and then it`ll all trickle down to the rest of you but that has not worked the last ten years and I hope the American public is catching on.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s basically saying that the Bush tax cuts and so-called trickle-down economics haven`t worked. He`s right, isn`t he?
TRUMP: Well, Warren is a great guy. He is right to a certain extent because the Bush years were seemingly good. But in the end, it was all sort of phony money. You look at what happened. It was a big blow-up at the very end. So it was really rather catastrophic.
The fact is as a country we pay among the highest taxes of any nation in the world on an individual basis. In fact, some people tell me it`s the highest. And we really do have to compete.
You know, one of the things that nobody talks about is I know people that are truly international people, international tycoons. They`re really not loyal and it`s a terrible thing. You`re you not going to hear it from me.
But they`re not loyal to this country or to any country. They follow the dollar.
BEHAR: Right.
TRUMP: They`re very, very powerful, very rich; they will leave the country for a haven -- for a nice tax haven that you read so much about and they wouldn`t even think about it. And these are people that pay tremendous amounts of taxes and employ tremendous numbers of people. So, you do have that to consider also.
BEHAR: I understand that. But, you know, to your other point, I happen to know -- I was reading up on this that a country like Denmark, they pay higher taxes but not much more than we do and they get free health care, they get cradle to grave, education, you know, social security. They get everything. And they`re the happiest people in the world. They have no anxiety.
TRUMP: Well, one of the problems that I think this country has with taxes is that a lot of the people disagree with where the money`s being spent. I mean I`m a very hawkish person, as you probably know. I mean, I`m a great hawk. Yet we`re in two wars and certainly one where we should have never been in the first place.
And people say, well, wait a minute, they`re raising my taxes. I don`t want to build roads in Iraq. I want to build roads in New Jersey. I want to build roads in Iowa. I want to build roads where -- like in this country. I don`t want to build schools in someplace when in St. Louis we can`t build our own schools.
So, you know, a lot of people are very upset that the taxes are higher. Denmark doesn`t have that problem, fortunately for them. A lot of people Joy -- and I`m sure you feel this way because I know your feelings on Bush certainly -- and I was never a big fan either. But I know you feel this also --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No. You said he was -- you told me he was a disaster once. And I -- after that, I fell madly in love with you.
TRUMP: Well, no. I thought he was a disaster. I thought he didn`t do a good job. I thought he did -- he had an opportunity after the World Trade Center to really make this country into a popular place. You know, the world loved us for the first time.
They used to fear us. Then they used to dislike us. And then they loved us for a very brief period of time. And we had a chance to really translate that into something good. And he just blew it.
He went into Iraq, which was not the group that knocked down the World Trade Center, by the way. I can tell you that group, it certainly wasn`t Iraq.
BEHAR: Right. No.
TRUMP: In fact, Saddam Hussein, whether you like him or don`t like him, he used to kill terrorists. That was not a haven for terrorists. Now they`re training terrorists in Iraq. That becomes the Harvard of terrorism.
Look, I thought he did not do a good job. And the end of his administration was somewhat disastrous. I am very disappointed in Obama. The world does not respect us. And I know you like him, but the world does not respect us. They don`t look up to us anymore.
And I can tell you Joy that on a very impartial basis the United States is failing badly. China is eating our lunch. What they`re doing to us is unbelievable. They`re laughing all the way to the bank.
You look at countries like even Mexico, where they`re taking companies out of -- in Iowa. They took a really good company, May Tag, moved it to Mexico. And certain town in Iowa, Newton, Iowa, is absolutely devastated and really having hard times.
So you look at what`s going on. OPEC, to me the worst of all; I mean OPEC, you have these 11 guys sitting around a table and just dictating the price of oil. We can never recover unless oil goes back down to $40. And it`s never going to go because we don`t have the right leadership.
If we had -- if we had somebody that knew a little bit about the art of the deal, I can guarantee you that oil would be where it should be.
BEHAR: Gee, let me guess who you might have in mind.
TRUMP: No, not necessarily.
BEHAR: Are his initials D.T.?
TRUMP: Well, look, I for the first time really would think about it. And I am thinking about it. It doesn`t mean I want to do it. I`d prefer not doing it. I`m having a lot of fun doing what I`m doing. It`s a great time to be buying things. I`m buying a lot of things and really having a good time.
But I hate -- you know, I`m very proud of this country. I`m very proud to be an American. And frankly, I hate what I`m seeing. I hate that friends of mine from Europe, from Asia, from all over the world -- they`re telling me stories about this country.
Let me give you an example. We want the Olympics. So our President flies over to see if he can get the bid. Now, he then comes back. We don`t end up not only in first place. We don`t end up in second place or third place. We were in fourth place.
Now, for the President of this great country to fly over there, he has to be given a wink. Like, come over, we`d love to have you. And you`re going to get it. I mean, do you know how bad we looked? The president of the United States flies over and comes out in fourth place. That`s a small example of what I`m talking about.
That shouldn`t be happening to this country. People -- Joy, people are not respecting us. They are not respecting this country. And I hate to see it.
BEHAR: Well, I`m going to see him this Friday at one of the White House Christmas parties. So I`ll send him your love.
TRUMP: Send him my regards.
BEHAR: Ok.
Now, let`s talk about "The Apprentice". Ok. This season finale is -- this season`s finale is Thursday. Let`s look at a little peek of it.
TRUMP: Ok.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi. Sorry about the player. There was a mix- up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Come on over here, Brandy. What do you have, mostly foursomes and I have a threesome?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A foursome has a huge advantage over a threesome.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Right.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And a fivesome, it`s almost impossible -- so it almost means that we can`t win.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, I personally like a onesome. What do you think?
TRUMP: Well, I like onesomes also actually but the show has been a lot of fun.
You know, we really took -- 16 people that were down and out. When we originally started "The Apprentice", as you remember Joy, the world was moving. Now, it turned out to be a false boom because that ultimately proved to be the case.
But the world was booming. And we had booming times. And we had Omarosa and Sam and all these people and it was terrific.
BEHAR: Yes.
TRUMP: Now, we have a world that`s a lot different. We wanted to see -- just go back because "Celebrity Apprentice" now comes out again on March 6th. We`re just finishing shooting and then I think it`s going to be terrific, including one of your friends, Star Jones is on the show.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, I heard.
TRUMP: We have some great, great celebrities. But in this one, we wanted to take contestants and bring them on -- people that had great educations and great jobs and now they`re down and out, they have no job.
And honestly it was depressing to a certain extent, but it was also very inspirational. I mean some of these people have real courage, real guts and the two finalists which are Brandy and Clint I mean they have really been terrific. They`re very tough, very smart. I think it`s going to be a good show on Thursday night.
BEHAR: One of your -- one of the final challenges I understand is organizing a Liza Minnelli event.
TRUMP: That`s right.
BEHAR: What event is that and does Liza know about it.
TRUMP: Well, Liza actually does know about it and she sings. It`s a Liza Minnelli concert and she sings. And Kathy Griffin is on the show. She did great. She`s funny as hell. And so was Liza and Kathy and lots of other people and lots of other celebrities. And it`s really a great finale.
BEHAR: I heard that you say that sang. I just heard this from somebody, that you have a singing voice.
TRUMP: Well, my only claim to fame is when "The Apprentice" was nominated for an Emmy I sang and they called it Emmy idol and I sang against William Shatner on the Emmys live.
BEHAR: Wow. Give me a little --
(CROSSTALK)
TRUMP: I was dressed up as a farmer with overalls and the straw hat.
BEHAR: I don`t see you in that outfit.
TRUMP: I don`t either. But I sang. Then they had the audience voting. I got 82 percent of the votes, so I was very happy about that.
BEHAR: Stop it.
TRUMP: That was my only performance.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, come one, give me a little of start spreading the news.
TRUMP: I better not do that. Nobody will turn on to "The Apprentice". I better not do that.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Oh, you`re a train wreck is always good television. Come on.
TRUMP: By the way, you`re right about that. That`s why I don`t want to do this.
BEHAR: Ok. Never mind.
TRUMP: But I`m very proud of you. You`ve been amazing. Your show is terrific. I watch it a lot.
BEHAR: Thank you.
TRUMP: And I really am. I think you`re amazing.
BEHAR: Thank you, dear. And next time you`ll come and sit here with me?
TRUMP: Absolutely. You have to put a little bit more pressure. I would have been over there. But this is so much easier.
BEHAR: You sound like my first husband. Thanks. Ok, Donald, thank you.
TRUMP: Have a good time Joy.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute.
TRUMP: So long.
BEHAR: All right.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Oprah breaks down in tears in an interview with Barbara Walters.
Then Florence Henderson chats about doing "Dancing with the Stars."
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: House Democrats are still fuming over what they see as the President`s caving to the Republicans on extending the Bush tax cuts. Perhaps even more so after President Obama took the time to lash out at his liberal members of the party during yesterday`s press conference. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we will be able to feel good about ourselves and sanctimonious about how pure our intentions are and how tough we are. And in the meantime the American people are still saying themselves not able to get health insurance because of pre- existing conditions or not being able to pay their bills because their unemployment insurance ran out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: We wanted some passion, we got it. With me now to discuss this is Democratic Congressman Anthony Weiner.
Congressman Weiner, you`ve been critical of Obama`s willingness to compromise. He says now is not the time to be rigid. What do you make of that?
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: Well, it`s not a matter of being critical of compromising as a concept. I think that very often here in Washington you have to but usually it follows a three-part step. And the first step is you speak forcefully about what you believe in. And then you go out and fight for the vote to get it done and if you need to compromise, you do.
I must have missed the first two parts of that. I didn`t see the full-throated endorsement. I didn`t see him traveling around the 50 states. I didn`t see him doing what Ronald Reagan or Bill Clinton did when they wanted to get things passed.
It`s not about whether it`s him or the left wing or the right wing. The question is what`s best for our country and for the middle class. And clearly this deal is not a very good one for a lot of people. It adds an enormous amount to the debt on the altar of giving tax cuts literally to billionaires.
BEHAR: Ok. But why didn`t the congressional Democrats work on this before the midterm elections when they were in a stronger position? Why now? Why did you wait until the last minute?
WEINER: Well, can I tell you something? This is not -- it`s not about what Congress does or doesn`t do, we know how difficult it was to get anything to pass the Senate. We passed over 200 bills in the House that went to the Senate just to die.
The question is whether or not the President, who`s making this deal, has done enough from his position to forcefully articulate the values of our country and of our party. He hasn`t done that.
I don`t think he realizes the arrows he has in his quiver. As passionate as Anthony Weiner can be on Joy Behar`s show, nothing can substitute for the full-throated endorsement and fighting that a president can do from the White House.
BEHAR: I know. That`s true. But you know what, Anthony? While the deal extends the tax cuts for the wealthy, it also extends the cuts to the middle class and extends unemployment benefits that were set to expire.
What do you say to your constituency who would lose their unemployment insurance? He seemed as though he was in a bind.
WEINER: I don`t buy the idea that this was a static thing. First of all, the things that we were fighting for on my side of the ledger, tax cuts for people who make less than $250,000 a year; tax relief for business owners; unemployment insurance, these are popular things.
You know, it`s not as if -- you know they`ve got some very popular positions on their sides. Estate tax cuts for 32,000 Americans, that`s all who`s going to get it; an additional $900 billion in the deficit.
I have to tell you something. The problem that I have here is that we`ve lost sight of the fact that part of the job of the President of the United States is to stand up and fight hard for what he believes in.
I`m not saying there aren`t things in this deal that aren`t good. I`m saying that he didn`t fight hard enough to get the good stuff without getting the bad stuff. It`s almost as if we have a president who thinks his job is to negotiate deals rather than lead us to a better place.
BEHAR: But not for nothing, but the Congress was also being attacked by everybody for not having the testosterone to back up what they were saying either. It wasn`t just the President. It was also the Congress, the Democrats in Congress.
WEINER: Yes. But let`s be fair about this. I believe that one of the things that happened wrong in the election is we didn`t have the President out there forcefully enough defending the things that we were trying to do.
Look, we passed an energy bill early on in the congressional session, went to the Senate to die a long, miserable death. Many of us had it hung around our neck during election time because there was no one there to articulate the values that we were trying to fight for.
Look, I did it successfully. I got 61 percent in my district. That`s not the question. The question is now, when we have this deal between the President and the Republicans, was there anyone fighting for the Democratic values that I believe in and I think the American people wanted? And the answer to that unfortunately it seems like not enough. There wasn`t enough fight in this.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Thank you very much, Congressman. Always a pleasure to talk to you, Anthony. Bye-bye.
WEINER: Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok.
I want to continue this fabulous discussion with Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the "Huffington Post"; and Robert Zimmerman, Democratic strategist. Ok. Just a quick take on what Anthony Weiner said.
ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR, "HUFFINGTON POST": I thought he completely he nailed it. I mean he`s exactly right. Where was Obama? Why did he wait until he got put in the corner the last minute and he had to do this? It was the best I could do. They`ve been waiting for this for a long time.
ROBERT ZIMMERMAN, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: That was a wonderful, emotional statement if you`re doing a statement on Dr. Phil. The reality is Republicans talk about shrinking the size of government. I think my party needs a shrink. Get over it. The job of a president is to get things done.
That`s the name of the game. That`s what this president tried to do. And I think while we`re all frustrated with the compromise, I`m more frustrated that it took the Democrats in the House and Senate two years when they had the majorities not to take action.
BEHAR: But some people who say that capitulating to the rich the way he did, is setting a very dangerous precedent.
ZIMMERMAN: I completely agree. But the bigger issue is what are we going to do about two million Americans who need their unemployment insurance, preserving the middle class tax cuts? And all the other important tax breaks for working men and women that are in that bill.
For example, the issues about small business tax breaks, the tuition tax credit; there are a lot of benefits there. The bigger concern I`ve got is about whether -- now that this hopefully moves forward we can deal with issues like "don`t ask, don`t tell" or the Dream Act.
BEHAR: Ok. You know what? I`d love to hear your response to that but we will get that as soon as we come back after it this quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel talking about President Obama`s tax cut compromise. Ok. You know, shouldn`t you cut the President a little slack? He did help middle class people in this particular compromise.
SEKOFF: Yes. I mean before we go back and forth a little and we do have our disagreements, we have to say that what the Republicans are doing is morally reprehensible.
BEHAR: Yes. I agree with that.
SEKOFF: I mean before we get on Obama, this is a scorched earth policy that they know is only doing two things: one, redistributing wealth to the richest people and, two, doing anything in their power to make sure that Obama doesn`t get any political victories. And so -- and at the cost of the economy in and at the cost of the American people; they`re trying to destroy the middle class.
ZIMMERMAN: But you know something -- I like to attack the Republicans and the right wing more than most people. But we can`t lose focus of the fact that we had 60 votes in the Senate for a year, a record Democratic majority since 1977. And our Democratic House and Senate members have to be held accountable for why they didn`t move on this very urgent matter to help the middle class. And that`s -- sometimes you have to speak truth to the power on that point.
But I think the bigger issue and the real test of this compromise is going to be after it`s put forward and after it`s pushed through, as I believe it will be, will then the lame duck session reconvene about the Dream Act, about "don`t ask, don`t tell" --
BEHAR: Yes.
ZIMMERMAN: About issues for --
SEKOFF: I think you`re dreaming if you think the Dream Act is going to get through. I mean let`s face -- Jon Kyl is already saying we`re not going to get that, there`s not going to be time. We`re going to have to dot the I`s and across the T`s.
ZIMMERMAN: That`s the START treaty.
SEKOFF: No, it`s everything.
ZIMMERMAN: But here`s the thing that really concerns me though. Ultimately, we all know in the new Congress, we have obviously a Republican, conservative, Tea Party majority in the house. We have a more conservative Democratic majority that`s rather -- some are rather intimidated by the last election.
So if we don`t move on these agenda items now, it`s not going to happen in the new Congress and repealing "don`t ask, don`t tell" will be dead, the START treaty will be badly set back. So that`s why it`s really - - the test of this compromise will be whether any of these items move.
BEHAR: What about down the road though? How is this going to impact us?
SEKOFF: Well, here`s the problem. The President said it himself. He used the metaphor of you don`t make deals with hostage takers unless they`re going to kill the hostages. Well, that`s the whole point. That`s why they take the hostages and once you go ahead and make the deal with them, why are they not going to do it again and again and again and again? I mean Mitch McConnell and John Boehner --
BEHAR: So, what would have happened, Roy, if he had just said, "Listen. No, I`m not giving this to you, no tax cuts for billionaires?" So people would have lost their unemployment insurance right and tax cuts for lower and middle would have gone the way of nothing. So then, what could he do?
SEKOFF: If he had done that in conjunction with making the case to the American people that -- here it is, you have two choices.
ZIMMERMAN: That`s a great theory.
(CROSSTALK)
SEKOFF: It`s not just a theory. Where is he saying --
ZIMMERMAN: It`s a theory because now we`re dealing with reality.
SEKOFF: Where is he saying that -- where is he saying to them, their defense is only of the rich people. All they want to do is continue this massive redistribution of the wealth.
ZIMMERMAN: He ran a campaign on that theme.
(CROSSTALK)
ZIMMERMAN: Let me tell you something. It`s been a Democratic theme since he first ran for president. It wasn`t --
SEKOFF: Quietly.
ZIMMERMAN: -- because the bigger issue is, at the end of the day it`s not about left or right. It`s about getting results.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s his personality that`s lacking in this particular case? I mean that he just hasn`t got that strength --
ZIMMERMAN: I think there`s a complete crisis of confidence in government. I think there`s a complete frustration that the American people don`t see results. And ultimately while I think -- we could all go back and talk about what should have been done a year and a half, two years ago. We now have three weeks to go before Congress is out of session. And the unfortunate reality is while a lot of my friends who were opposed to this compromise want to experiment for the next year to see what would happen, we can`t afford that risk.
BEHAR: Ok, I have to go. One word, is he going to be a one-term president, yes or no?
SEKOFF: I think he won`t be but it`s going to be tight.
ZIMMERMAN: He`s going to be re-elected.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys very much. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Salma Hayek`s shocking confession about crossing the border. And the lovely Florence Henderson talks about her stint on "Dancing with the Stars." Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: You know it must be December because Barbara Walters is making celebrities cry. In what`s promised to be Oprah Winfrey`s most revealing interview ever, Oprah confessed to Barbara that she`s not a lesbian. Here to talk about Oprah`s non-lesbianism and other stories de jure are Roy Sekoff, founding editor of the "Huffington Post," Lisa Birnbach, author of "True Prep: It`s a Whole New Old World," and comedian, Elon Gold.
OK. Before we talk about this, let`s watch the clip where Oprah responds to those pesky rumors.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST: I have said we are not gay enough times. I`m not lesbian. I`m not even kind of lesbian. And the reason why it irritates me is because it means that somebody must think I`m lying. That`s number one. Number two, why would you want to hide it? That is not the way I run my life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m fascinated that she doesn`t say a lesbian. She said I`m not lesbian.
LISA BIRNBACH, AUTHOR, "TRUE PREP: IT`S A WHOLE NEW OLD WORLD": She actually said we are not lesbian which is more
ROY SEKOFF, FOUNDING EDITOR OF THE "HUFFINGTON POST": Aren`t we all kind of lesbian, really, when you get right down to it?
BEHAR: Sure we are. Sure. I have flannel shirts at home.
SEKOFF: That`s what I`m saying.
ELON GOLD, COMEDIAN: Oprah is so sensitive with this stuff. And just to say kind of lesbian -- I thought about it personally. If I was watching an interview, OK, and someone said, are you Jewish? Well, I`m not even kind of a Jew, that`s offensive. And I can`t believe that Oprah -- and what is kind of a lesbian? What is that like --
BEHAR: In other words, she doesn`t have even tendencies or interest.
SEKOFF: Right. Doesn`t think about it.
(CROSSTALK)
SEKOFF: She didn`t even go to "the black swan" because --
BEHAR: She`s not butch. It`s what she meant is like I`m fem.
BIRNBACH: I`m not a lesbian. I`m not a lipstick lesbian. I`m not any kind --
BEHAR: Any kind.
GOLD: And if you`re kind of a lesbian and you go to second base, but you only play with one breast.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh my goodness.
BIRNBACH: I think she`s the most powerful woman in publishing.
SEKOFF: That`s true.
BIRNBACH: Yes, right. Yes, no, exactly.
SEKOFF: Here`s what it comes down to, she says, I don`t know why people keep asking me this. I think she`s right. It`s a tired subject, but if you were engaged for 24 years and never quite went over it, people would talk.
BEHAR: That would be made (ph). I go with the same guy for 28 years. I`m not married to him. People don`t think I`m a lesbian.
BIRNBACH: But you don`t keep going around with your best friend, right? Do you have a best friend that makes you weep when you say her name?
BEHAR: No. No.
BIRNBACH: OK.
BEHAR: But what about the point that she makes about -- she`s very open about everything. She`s talked about sexual abuse. Why wouldn`t she say it? It`s not her speed to keep it a secret. I got to go along with that.
SEKOFF: We`re kidding around but really. She`s all about -- she talked about being molested as a child. I think if that was the case, she certainly would be open about it.
BIRNBACH: No. Everybody can only have one theme. You can`t be the victim of child molestation and a lesbian because that`s confusing.
BEHAR: Yes, you can.
BIRNBACH: No.
BEHAR: Very many people are.
BIRNBACH: I don`t know if I mentioned, she`s the most powerful woman in publishing.
BEHAR: What`s your point?
BIRNBACH: Whatever she is, it`s wonderful.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: Annoyed that people think that she`s a lesbian when you watch the interview and she`s sobbing when talking about Gayle. It`s like Gayle is the most wonderful woman --
BEHAR: It`s my sister, the best sister --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I feel that way about Isaac Mizrahi.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLD: And then she`s literally sobbing, and she`s the greatest thing, and it`s like, oh, and how`s Steadman? He`s great. Anyway, Gayle is just --
BIRNBACH: Is Steadman still in the picture?
SEKOFF: She said she called Steadman her lover. He`s the man in my life, the lover of my -- I mean, I`ve been married now for 17 years. I`ve never called my wife my lover.
BEHAR: No. No one --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But she`s not married to him. Maybe that`s what she calls
SEKOFF: But you`re not married, do you call your significant other your lover? It sounds like a "Saturday Night Live" skit.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. Let`s move on to another (INAUDIBLE). Sarah Palin`s enemy list continues to grow. Her newest public enemy, People from the Ethical Treatment of Animals. Let`s watch a clip from Sarah`s reality show and see what all the fuss is about.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Take your time. Take your time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uh-oh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wait. Wait till it turns broad side and stops. Go ahead.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What does this woman have against animals? You know what I mean?
BIRNBACH: They can`t vote for her.
BEHAR: Yes. Remember last year during Thanksgiving, the guy was grinding live turkeys, and she`s talking into the microphone. You know, if she comes to New York, I`m locking up all my Yorkies. I`m afraid to let my animals near her. What is her problem?
SEKOFF: Let`s just say this, though.
BEHAR: Yes.
SEKOFF: She`s a PR genius in terms of appealing to her base. Attacking PETA, that`s like attacking socialists. That`s like attacking Fidel Castro to her base. I mean, it couldn`t be more of a slam dunk. Plus, she`s playing the whole, you know, I kill them so I eat them. I mean, that`s real --
BEHAR: Well, she has a point. Let`s see if I have it here. She says, tonight`s hunting episode of Sarah Palin`s Alaska, controversial? Really? Unless you`ve never worn leather couch, sat upon a leather couch, or eaten a piece of meat, save your condemnation of tonight`s episode. I remain proudly intolerant of anti-hunting hypocrisy.
BIRNBACH: She is proudly intolerant.
BEHAR: True. Proudly intolerant.
BIRNBACH: I think she is proudly intolerant.
GOLD: I guarantee when Sarah Palin sees a couch, she shoots it.
SEKOFF: If it`s a leather couch.
GOLD: If it`s a leather couch.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: If there`s any life left in it, she will shoot it.
BEHAR: But she makes this case like everybody could hunt. I live on the west side. I go to Loman`s. That`s my day. I don`t have caribou to shoot.
BIRNBACH: But be all that, there are people who live in Alaska as nonshooters. You know, you can live in Alaska and go to a safe way. You don`t have to shoot your food.
BEHAR: I know.
BIRNBACH: I`ve been to Alaska. I know. They have foods --
(CROSSTALK)
GOLD: And for the record, I am wearing leather sneakers right now. See. But I did not kill any animals. What I did was I had someone else murder the animal --
BEHAR: That`s the way --
GOLD: Send the dead body off to China, have an 8-year-old slave (ph) make a sneaker, and then you know. I`m not a bad guy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Moving on. Helen Mirren caused a quite stir yesterday when she was honored at the Hollywood Reporter`s powerful 100 women in entertainment breakfast. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HELEN MIRREN, ACTRESS: Really, not too much has changed in the cannon of Hollywood filmmaking that continues to worship at the altar of the 18 to 25-year-old male and his penis.
(LAUGHTER)
MIRREN: Quite small I always think.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: There`s nothing like a dame, is there?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You agree with Mirren?
SEKOFF: I haven`t been at the altar of the 18-year-old penis in quite a while. But I -- listen, she`s obviously a bit of a -- you know, there is sexism going on, and it`s not because -- it`s because the movies they`re making, right? They`re making comic book movies. And you know, they`re making bang-them-up, shoot-them-up, you know, those kind of movies. And there`s not the Betty Davis role in those movies. There`s nothing John Crawford role in those movies.
BEHAR: But she works a lot.
BIRNBACH: But when we have those movies or character studies or something that is compelling for an older woman actress, she usually gets the part.
BEHAR: Right. Or Kate Winslet.
BIRNBACH: Or Meryl Streep.
BEHAR: Yes.
BIRNBACH: Or somebody like that. The fact is they do make movies that are appealing to a younger, dumber audience, but she also works a lot. So, I don`t think she should really complain that much.
BEHAR: But she`s a Brit. She`s British. She`s talking about Hollywood more than the Brits, I think.
BIRNBACH: That`s right.
BEHAR: The Brits have incredible roles for women on television and film.
BIRNBACH: And they don`t mind going a little ugly for a part.
BEHAR: No, they don`t. That`s right.
GOLD: Or (INAUDIBLE) 18-year-old penis. Are you sure she was talking about all of Hollywood or just Mario Cantone? Here`s the question I have. First of all, I was with Helen.
SEKOFF: You could have picked a lot of names in Hollywood, Mario Cantone?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He picked one that no one knows right now.
GOLD: I was with Helen last night. I went to brag. I was on "The Tonight Show" last night, and she was the main guest.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
GOLD: Yes, and I talked (ph) a little bit with her. She is stunning in person.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s go to that. She says I`m not beautiful. I clean up nice. But the fact that I look good at the age I am is bloody irrelevant. She doesn`t want to hear I`m beautiful, I`m pretty anymore. She`s sick of it.
BIRNBACH: But I think it`s more ageist than it is, you know, anti- feminist. I think it`s --
BEHAR: Why?
BIRNBACH: Because I think when you get older, people think it`s kind of gross when you act sexy. And I think we have to learn how to deal with that.
SEKOFF: We`re uncomfortable with that.
BIRNBACH: We are uncomfortable with that.
BEHAR: Well, maybe it is gross to be sexy when you`re older. I mean, who needs it? It`s like, really, get in the rocking chair and shut up.
(LAUGHTER)
SEKOFF: Really?
BEHAR: Kidding, kidding. I`m in that category. But I don`t like to flaunt, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
BIRNBACH: Don`t call somebody your lover?
BEHAR: No, it`s obnoxious.
SEKOFF: But, you know, she does flaunt it. That`s the thing. You know, she famously did the topless thing.
(CROSSTALK)
SEKOFF: Yes, she does the bosomy stuff you. Don`t you think it`s a little bit of -- no, I`m not sexy. I`m not sexy. Tell me I`m wrong. Tell me I`m wrong.
GOLD: I just think she`s insulted because you can`t qualify and when you say for her age, it`s like you can`t -- Joy, you are very attractive for an Italian. You just can`t do that. No, because it`s always for your age. It`s never like qualified by ethnicity.
BEHAR: I`d like to say, though, I sound exactly like Claudia Cardinale. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: One last story. Movie star, Salma Hayek, admitted to Spain`s "V" magazine that in 1991 she entered the United States illegally. Finally, an illegal immigrant who actually took a job that Americans want. OK. Do you think they`ll try to deport Hayek?
SEKOFF: No. She`s a naturalized citizen now. I think she`s making a great point. She`s saying, look, you know, illegal aliens, first of all the word, but then undocumented aliens, we`re not all, you know, sneaking across the border with, you know, in the back of the truck with (INAUDIBLE). Some of us are on "30 rock."
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why do you think she came clean after all this time?
BIRNBACH: I think because -- isn`t she the one married to the CEO of Louis Vuitton and maybe it`s time to, you know, maybe just for Christmas, for the sales, for shopping.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You`re a cynic. I love it. Go ahead, Elon.
GOLD: I think it was her legal housekeeper who told her, you should go out there and tell the truth.
BIRNBACH: But I think it`s true that the point that you make that she`s not a menace to anybody except to marriages, you know? I mean, there are men who drool after her.
BEHAR: Fantasize about her.
BIRNBACH: They fantasize about her.
SEKOFF: But on a serious piece (ph) of point, it`s really changed, right? Bush`s whole thing was we were going to have the permanent Republican majority by attracting the Hispanic vote. Now, we have it like they`re the demons. Sharron Angle`s entire campaign was they`re coming across the border.
BEHAR: Don`t get me started on her. She sent me flowers.
SEKOFF: No?
BEHAR: Yes. And then, when she lost, I had the class not to send her flowers.
SEKOFF: Nice.
BEHAR: Thank you, guys, very much. And if you`re in New York, catch Elon Gold`s show, "Half Jewish, Half Very Jewish" at the Gramercy Theater tomorrow night. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Florence Henderson became a household name when she started in "The Brady Bunch," but she was most recently seen shaking her assets on "Dancing with the Stars." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(SINGING) There were four men living al together, yet they were all alone till the one day when the lady met this fellow.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now is the very talented and very limber, Ms. Florence Henderson. You are a very limber on that show, my dear.
FLORENCE HENDERSON, ACTRESS: Oh, I had a blast.
BEHAR: You`re like Ginger Rogers.
HENDERSON: Yes. You know, I thought it would be a little easier than it was. It was a very challenging experience. Seven days a week, seven hours a day rehearsing.
BEHAR: A lot was made with the fact that you`re (ph) a woman of a certain age, and you have no compunction about saying your age all the time which I wonder why did you do that all the time.
HENDERSON: Well, I don`t. I rarely ever mention my age. But, when I was doing "Dancing with the Stars" in the beginning, they would say, ah, you know, she`s 76. And then after the first week and when I was competing with the younger ones and really hanging in as well or better, they stopped mentioning that.
BEHAR: Right.
HENDERSON: So, I was delighted.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
HENDERSON: Because they tend nothing to do with it.
BEHAR: We were talking previous segment about Helen Mirren.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Who is in her mid or late 60s at this point. And she doesn`t like it when people say she`s beautiful. She`s sick of it. What do you think about that?
HENDERSON: I think Helen needs to readjust her thinking. I mean, I`m thrilled when someone says I look good or you`re in good shape. I don`t know. Maybe, she thinks it`s kind of a sexist thing. I don`t know.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: No, I`m delighted.
BEHAR: Or maybe ageism is in there. In other words, like, one of the guests said tonight, you look good for your age. There`s always that little caveat at the end.
HENDERSON: A very few people say that to me.
BEHAR: They don`t say it to you?
HENDERSON: No. And if they did, I would say, please don`t pay me a compliment like that.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: And look good.
BEHAR: You look damn good. Were you in pain from all that dancing?
HENDERSON: You know what, when I began, I thought, oh, this is going to be tough. And each dance is a different set of muscles, but I got stronger. My partner, Corky Ballas (ph), is just a fantastic teacher. He had me doing things on the treadmill, you know, like depending on the dance. Like, if you had a lot of side moves like in the quick step. I had to get on the treadmill and walk sideways or the tango, I had to walk backward with bent knees.
BEHAR: Really?
HENDERSON: Things like that. They gave you tricks to increase your stamina, you muscle --
BEHAR: That`s dangerous. You could break a hip.
(LAUGHTER)
HENDERSON: Thank God, I didn`t.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
HENDERSON: You know what, Joy? I think I had fewer injuries than other people.
BEHAR: Have you been always athletic your whole life?
HENDERSON: I`ve always worked out.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. Well, that`s why.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: It shows.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You had an entering season on `Dancing with the Stars," I though, because you had Margaret Cho, you had Bristol Palin, you had Brandy and Michael Bolton was one of the early ones, and he had a meltdown. What do you think of that meltdown of his? Was it a little bit too much of a snit he got into or what?
HENDERSON: Well, I think he took the criticism too personally from Bruno and Len and Carrie Ann. And I think he forgot that, you know, this is a reality show. It`s an entertainment show. And you got to take the knocks, you know. When people praise you, you go, wow, thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: And you know, it really worked to his advantage because he came back like the next week.
BEHAR: Exactly.
HENDERSON: He said (ph) hallelujah and they give him a tremendous shot.
BEHAR: I mean, really, we haven`t heard from him since "A Man Loves A Woman" or something, which is back in the day. I mean, but, Bruno was brutal. He said, your jive was the worst we`ve ever seen in 11 seasons. He needs to get over his shyness, Bruno. I mean, he really was like the worst we`ve ever seen.
HENDERSON: Oh, I think he gave him a three or something. And you know, they made a big deal out of, you know, his coming out on of the dog house, which, you know, could have been fun.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: But I don`t think he had a tremendous sense of humor.
BEHAR: No, he did not.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: What about "The Situation"? Did you get to bond with "The Situation"?
HENDERSON: "The Situation," you know, I don`t watch "Jersey Shore." So, when I met him, I asked him what it was. You know, what is "The Situation"?
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
HENDERSON: He proceeded for about a half hour or 40 minutes to tell me. He`s very sweet, but if you sat down next to him, you know, he took out his iPad and he will show you pictures of himself.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: How delightful.
(LAUGHTER)
HENDERSON: So, I had just met him when we went into rehearsal.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: You know, they film you all the time. And so, I forget how it came up, but I decided I would just show my situation. And a friend of mine said, for God`s sake, why do you have that big bra on? I said, because I got big (EXPLETIVE DELETED), you know?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Flaunt it, baby. Flaunt it.
HENDERSON: But, you know, I`m kind of like you. Things just come out of my mouth.
BEHAR: Things come out of your mouth.
HENDERSON: Yes. And it felt right I jut did that.
BEHAR: I love that about you. I love that being a flesher (ph). I hear you`re writing your autobiography.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Now, do you have any deep, dark secrets? I mean, a lot was revealed by your co-star, Barry Williams back in the day.
HENDERSON: Oh.
BEHAR: Well, didn`t he say he went out with you in his memoir? That he had a date with you?
HENDERSON: He did. You know, and doing publicity for it, I cannot (ph) helped him. We kind of, you know, built it up a little bit.
BEHAR: So, there was no hanky panky between you and Barry?
HENDERSON: No, there wasn`t back then, but you know, now, I think, you know, he looks almost as old as I do.
(LAUGHTER)
HENDERSON: So, I think now we could really, you know, maybe get something on. I don`t know.
BEHAR: What juicy secrets are you going to reveal in your autobiography? Come on. Give me one or just lead me in the direction.
HENDERSON: Well, I really can`t tell you about some of my mistakes and my failures. I talk a lot about having severe postpartum depression.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. How long did that last?
HENDERSON: Well, I had it after my -- I have four children. I had it after my first and my third. And it lasted quite a while. You know, and back then, you know, you just didn`t talk about it. You just suffered.
BEHAR: You didn`t even know what it was.
HENDERSON: No. I just felt so bad and so guilty. Oh my God -- I mean, because I always usually such an optimistic person. And it was an extremely difficult time for me.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: I talk about my childhood. How difficult, you know, it was and how -- I hope to inspire people, you know, not to be a victim of their environment or their upbringing or show business or anything in their life.
BEHAR: I`m looking forward to reading it. We`re going to have more with you in just a minute. We`ll take a break. We`ll be back with more of Florence Henderson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the lovely Florence Henderson, who in addition to being a television icon is also the national spokesman for Bausch and Lomb Crystal Lens. I wanted to let everybody know about that.
HENDERSON: Oh, thank you. I`m so happy you said that. You know, I had a cataract in my right eye, and you struggle with that. I mean, you`re probably too young to have --
BEHAR: I don`t have them. Yes.
HENDERSON: Well, you know, people a lot younger than you and younger than myself get them, but in any case, I was helped so much. I got a crystal lens which allows me to see up close, intermediate and distance.
BEHAR: That`s great.
HENDERSON: And so, Bausch & Lomb hired me to talk about it, and I`m so happy to do that. You know, it`s great because now I can see every line in everyone`s face.
BEHAR: You can see all the plastic surgery scars.
HENDERSON: I can see everything. The bad thing is I can see my own and that`s really scary.
BEHAR: Well, that`s the only problem. Now, I want to just talk a little more about "Dancing with the Stars." You know, there was a whole controversy with Bristol Palin and Margaret Cho last week.
HENDERSON: I heard that.
BEHAR: You heard about that?
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Margaret said that she got second-hand information that Sarah Palin really pushed Bristol to be on -- did you have any information backstage to corroborate either side because Bristol disagreed with that.
HENDERSON: I don`t think it`s true. I mean, I was surprised that Margaret said that because Margaret was so sweet on the show and so sweet to everyone and so was Bristol.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: You know? And Bristol had a difficult time on the show. She and I bonded, by the way. And when her mother and father came for the first time, she brought them to my trailer to meet me. And she had very -- a very hard time expressing emotion.
BEHAR: Who? Bristol?
HENDERSON: Bristol with her dancing. You know, she would get the feet working but her face would just be blank. So, I would try to help her with that. And she had this one dance where she was supposed to lie back on the floor and be very sexy, but her fingers were, you know, knotted up, and she`s like -- I said you`ve got to sexy. You`ve got to lay back.
And she said, I don`t know how to do that. I said, well, just, you know, and I got down on the floor and I showed her. Nothing would come out of the face. I said, think of something that gives you pleasure, think about little boy, trip, you know, and again, nothing. She said I can`t do it. I said, think about how you got the baby. That must have felt good.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s a little closer, Florence.
HENDERSON: Yes.
BEHAR: You don`t think about the baby. You think about the conception of the baby.
HENDERSON: Exactly, exactly. But you know what, she had a great sense of humor.
BEHAR: Yes.
HENDERSON: And she was asked, you know, after the show was over. Who is the one person you would like to spend time with, and she said, Florence.
BEHAR: Florence Henderson. That`s so nice. And you know, but did Sarah Palin have a good sense of humor?
HENDERSON: You know they were very -- I was very surprised. I told Bristol I did not agree with her mother politically, but she`s very charming. She`s very charismatic.
BEHAR: Yes. And what about her killing all those deer in her show? We just showed a clip of her shooting the caribou. Who does that on television?
HENDERSON: Who does it anyway unless you`re starving and you need the meat?
BEHAR: Yes, like she`s starving and needs the meat. She makes so much money.
HENDERSON: I know.
BEHAR: She`s not starving and doesn`t need the meat.
HENDERSON: Maybe she`s going to wear the caribou. I don`t know.
BEHAR: I hope she wears the caribou. The antlers would make nice little horns on her. Thanks, Florence.
HENDERSON: Oh, you just love her so much.
BEHAR: I don`t.
(LAUGHTER)
HENDERSON: I know. Oh, I watch you every day.
BEHAR: I do not.
HENDERSON: I know your views. I love it.
BEHAR: OK, honey. I love you too. You`re so cute.
HENDERSON: And give my love to Bill O`Reilly, OK?
BEHAR: Bill and I, we go back.
HENDERSON: I know.
BEHAR: We`re really like -- we`re really like - we`re having a bromance.
HENDERSON: Yes, I bet.
BEHAR: Thank you for coming on the show.
HENDERSON: Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: And thank you all for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
