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Joy Behar Page
Miley Bong Controversy; Hookers for Jesus; Neo-Nazi Makeover
Aired December 14, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Hugh Jackman wanted to be on Oprah`s show so badly he was willing to fly in on a wire. You know, it`s the exact same thing here. People call my producers constantly. They are begging me. They`re texting. They`re writing. They`re bothering my doorman. They`re calling my (INAUDIBLE).
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BAY BEHAR SHOW, more fallout from Miley Cyrus`s bong smoking video. Dad Billy Ray says he can`t control his daughter and Dr. Drew says she needs professional help. So is she following in the footsteps of Lindsay Lohan or was this just an isolate incident?
Speaking of Lindsay, the actress is mad at Gwyneth Paltrow after Paltrow mocked the troubled starlet on "Glee".
Plus Joy talks to a former prostitute who is helping girls get off the streets through her mission, "Hookers for Jesus".
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: The fallout continues today after video surfaced of teen star Miley Cyrus smoking from a bong. Watch the tape from TMZ.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hold it.
(INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You`re going to (EXPLETIVE DELETED) a brick when you see this. Oh, yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes girl. Get it. I want more of that (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I swear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Hyper. A source close to Miley told TMZ the star was smoking the legal herbal drug Salvia. So how serious is this exactly.
Well, some say it`s just typical teen behavior; others think Miley could well be on her way to becoming the next Lindsay Lohan. By the way "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" reached out to Miley`s people for comment but as of now they are keeping quiet.
Here now to discuss this are Dr. Drew Pinsky addiction medicine specialist, host of VH1`s "Celebrity Rehab" and soon to be host of his own television show right here on HLN; Tara Setmayer, conservative commentator; and Chloe Melas, senior reporter for hollywoodlife.com.
Dr. Drew is this typical 18-year-old behavior or is there something more here?
DR. DREW PINSKY, ADDICTION MEDICINE SPECIALIST: Well, I suspect there is something more here. Let`s sort of clarify the issues. One is I can`t say that this is a burgeoning addiction, certainly. That`s certainly not the case and people are always reaching out to me and saying what would you do if this were your daughter?
What I would say is if I were aware of these sorts of dangerous behaviors, this sort of acting out, particularly in the face of the multiple stressors she`s had lately. Her family has broken apart. God knows what she has to tolerate in her career. I would say, boy, if this were my daughter I would get professional help and I would get it right away. I would not try to go this alone.
This is a sign of real burgeoning trouble.
Salvia is a dangerous compound; it`s a profound hallucinogen. It`s very powerful. I`ve seen kids go into multi-diencephalopatis (ph) from this problem -- from this drug. Even though it is legal -- legal/illegal doesn`t really matter to me. People are making a big deal out of that.
Look, most of my patients use legal drugs, pills. So it being legal or illegal is not the issue. The issue is it`s a powerful hallucinogen in a kid who is going down a path where if it were my child I absolutely would not try to go this alone. I would get help right away.
BEHAR: Ok. To that point her father Billy Ray Cyrus tweeted, "Sorry, guys, I had no idea. Just saw this stuff for the first time myself. I am so sad. There is much beyond my control right now."
So, Chloe, what do you make of that? Do you think it`s really out of his control?
CHLOE MELAS, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: You know, I definitely think that things are out of Billy`s control. He and Tish, he served her with divorce papers right now. Things are tough for Miley at home.
But Miley did not re-sign her Disney contract. She has been trying to get out of this good girl image for a while now. Salvia is legal for now in California. She just turned 18. The video was shot five days after her 18th birthday. And clearly she`s doing everything she can to get away from it.
Will it hurt her image now? Yes. In the long term? No. Look at Kim Kardashian. Look at Drew Barrymore. There are plenty of people that have made mistakes and come back from them.
BEHAR: Some of them have sex videos. Everything. It`s true and they`ve come back. Although Paris Hilton is not having an easy time.
MELAS: Right. And neither is Lindsay Lohan. That is something to kind of look at for Miley is that it doesn`t always work out but Miley was number 13 on the Forbes Most Powerful 100 List this past year. So, clearly, she is doing something right.
BEHAR: Well, yes. But you`re talking about her career and Dr. Drew is talking about her psyche.
MELAS: Well, right. But I mean, you know, she is 18. She`s powerful. She`s rich. She`s hanging out with older friends. And she`s experimenting. Whether or not it`s right or wrong, in her mind she is just considering I`m just getting away from my good girl image. I`m not doing anything wrong. It`s legal. What`s the big deal?
BEHAR: Well, as Dr. Drew just said legal doesn`t mean diddly because, you know, people use prescription drugs quite poorly and they get into a lot of trouble.
MELAS: Right. It`s definitely bad for Miley to be doing this right now but she is just doing everything she can from wearing scandalous outfits, you know, going out a lot, partying. She really just wants to get away from this image so, clearly, this was the wrong move for her. But that`s just --
BEHAR: Tara, go ahead, jump in. What do you say to this?
TARA SETMAYER, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: I think that the fact that we are dismissing this somewhat as, well, this is just a phase, is concerning. And it`s indicative of how accepting our society has become of this over-sexualization of our teenage girls.
You know, I mean there is part of a segment where we see them completely out of control like the Lindsay Lohans, like the Britney Spears. They start off cute and innocent and then at some point they think they need to sexualize themselves and act out, do drugs, you know, drink excessively, to escape from whatever it is that`s going on in their lives. It`s clearly unhealthy.
And I think a lot of it has to do with their support group --
PINSKY: Yes.
SETMAYER: -- with their parents. If you look at the cases of Lindsay Lohan and Britney Spears and now Miley Cyrus, you know, sometimes the parents get caught up in the life, also. And they use their children to live vicariously through them and they`re no longer parents, they`re now handlers. But then they lose control of the situation and we have what we have. I think this is very alarming what`s going on with Miley Cyrus.
BEHAR: Her mother just, you know, flew down to New Orleans to be with her. Dr. Drew, is that a good idea for the mother to go to her? According to what you`re saying, it sounds like the right thing.
PINSKY: Yes. Absolutely. What was just said I want to put coda on that; this is exactly the case. When we evaluate adolescent young adults from a mental health perspective what we look for is truancy, acting out sexually, sexualizing themselves, drug and alcohol behaviors. Those are the signs of severe mental health issues in that age group. That`s it.
They don`t cry. They don`t do the kinds of depressive symptomatology we`re used to seeing in adults. They act out, or act in, they cut, they have eating disorders, that sort of thing.
But she is manifesting significant -- if somebody were evaluating her -- significant mental health problems that would require intervention. So to, just as you said, to put a cultural blush on it, well, kids will be kids. That`s nonsense.
SETMAYER: That`s right.
PINSKY: We don`t do it that way when we`re actually evaluating this kind of a kid.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What do you say, Chloe?
MELAS: Clearly, this is a cry for help and, you know --
BEHAR: Is it a cry for help or a cry for better roles?
PINSKY: No, no. I never met a drug addict that cried for help. They go as far as they can go until they can go no further.
SETMAYER: That`s right.
PINSKY: Then they stop. But the fact is, she is acting out. She is doing things that are destructive. By the way, there is no separate manual for celebrities.
SESTMAYER: That`s right.
PINSKY: There`s not a separate set of mental health parameters. They are precisely the same as the rest of us. They do exactly the same thing as the rest of us when we get into trouble. And it is clear here she is getting into trouble.
Now, hopefully she`ll pull out of it but these are signs of real serious trouble.
MELAS: But it`s also clear that she doesn`t really have tight reins on her life right now. Yes, her mother went down there but she was also spotted at the Saints game hanging with Taylor Lautner.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Who is that?
MELAS: He`s in "Twilight" --
(CROSSTALK)
MELAS: -- lead of the wolf pack.
You know, she is going out having fun partying. Her dad is finding out about it and hasn`t even seen it and is tweeting about it. Clearly, there is some sort of disconnect in communication in the Cyrus family that must be fixed.
SETMAYER: But that`s the problem right there. She`s had no limitations. From what I understand she lived in her own house before she was 18 even though the family lived in the same compound. She had her own house, separate from the rest of her parents and she was able to do whatever she wanted at 16 years old.
BEHAR: Boy, I wish I had that.
SETMAYER: At 15 and 16 years old she is dating 20-year-old models and why is it that she wants to shed this good girl image? I mean, the Disney image, you know --
BEHAR: She is sick and tired of being a role model for teenagers. Let`s listen to Bill O`Reilly last night on his Fox News show. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL O`REILLY, HOST, FOX NEWS CHANNELL: Well, it is pathetic. That`s what it is. Miss Cyrus says she was using a legal substance but the sad fact is that her days of being a positive role model for young women are long gone.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Listen, she didn`t sign up to be a role model, this girl. She signed up to be a Disney star. Now she`s tired of it.
MELAS: You know, it`s nice that finally Bill O`Reilly is coming out and saying what we all kind of want to say. We`ve kind of been tiptoeing around her scandalous outfits and her behavior which has kind of been a downhill spiral for a while now.
But, you know, her parents should be coming out and doing something about this. Maybe they should be pulling her off some of these movie roles that she is doing and letting her just --
BEHAR: She is 18.
MELAS: She is 18 but she was five days after being 18 when she was filmed doing this video. You know? And supposedly it was leaked by a very good friend of hers as well.
BEHAR: Well, that`s interesting to me, also. I mean, she obviously knows they`re filming her. What do you think about that, Dr. Drew? She seems to be in on it.
PINSKY: Yes. Well, right. There is no doubt what Chloe is sort of putting her finger on here is that she is wanting to establish a sense of herself; her own sense of self, separate from Miley Cyrus.
The problem is though is she`s doing this at a time and in a circumstance where there are other emotional issues clearly coming to bear. And, yes, she is casting off some character so she can be herself, which is a positive thing at an appropriate stage of life.
But that is not what we`re watching here. We`re watching somebody go well beyond that and act out in ways that are dangerous and problematic --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, the fact that she -- the fact that she --
PINSKY: Including --
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
PINSKY: -- including showing impaired judgment by having this thing - - yes including showing impaired judgment by having thing filmed in the first place.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right.
PINSKY: I mean that`s sort of a bizarre thing.
BEHAR: I mean, and she knew it was going to get out, too.
PINSKY: Yes.
SETMAYER: And she doesn`t -- and she doesn`t care. The fact that her judgment --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok.
UF1: -- that you heard judgment and her -- her disregard for the public seeing this tells you something else, too.
BEHAR: I`ve got to go Tara.
SETMAYER: I mean, why? Why is she doing this?
BEHAR: Thank you -- thank you very much, guys very much.
And you can see Dr. Drew on "Celebrity Rehab" Wednesdays at 10:00 p.m. on VH1. And he`s going to be a star of HLN soon.
Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guests spent years working as call girls but now one of them has found a higher calling and is helping girls get off the streets. Her efforts are chronicled in the new show "Hookers Saved on the Strip". Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Regina didn`t call us because she was broke. Regina had money. She just got in too many different situations where she was about to die and she knew that if she didn`t quit now that it would eventually happen to her.
REGINA, FORMER PROSTITUTE: I was scared all the time. But I didn`t want to end my life with a trick killing me.
You don`t know what these guys are thinking. It messes with your head and your emotions and your nerves and your sanity. It`s hard to get out.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Joining me now are Annie Lobert, a former prostitute who runs the faith-based mission Hookers for Jesus and Regina also a former prostitute. Hello, ladies. Ok Annie you --
ANNIE LOBERT, FORMER PROSTITUTE: Hi.
BEHAR: You`re from Minnesota.
LOBERT: Yes.
BEHAR: And I saw some of the footage of the show and you -- you grew up really very middle class and from like a typical kind of Midwest family. So how did you become a prostitute out of that?
LOBERT: Well, I was a very rebellious teen. I didn`t like rules. My mom and dad had a real strict upbringing and even going to church with all of those rules and back then church was way different, so naturally when I hit the age of a teenager I just went wild.
BEHAR: You went wild.
LOBERT: I went wild.
BEHAR: Well, what were you rebelling against?
LOBERT: Just, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The middle class furniture or something --
LOBERT: I guess so and just -- just -- I think I felt really honestly insecure and just --
BEHAR: Yes.
LOBERT: -- I didn`t feel like anyone loved me so I had to prove that I was lovable.
BEHAR: I see. And then after 16 years in the business you decided to check out and not do it? What made you change your mind?
LOBERT: After that length of time you`d think that you get tired of something --
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
LOBERT: -- don`t you? And just being with all the different men and almost being killed especially being with the pimp that I was with for a while and having the pimps hunt us down, it just -- it didn`t seem feasible to stay in it anymore.
BEHAR: Why do all prostitutes have to have a pimp? It seems to me that that is like an agent from hell.
LOBERT: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, it`s --
LOBERT: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s worse than the William Morris office. Why do you need a pimp? I mean, you give them all your money. You do all the work --
(CROSSTALK)
LOBERT: Right.
BEHAR: -- take all the risks. And you have this guy taking the money. Why?
LOBERT: You know most girls don`t get into it initially with a pimp just like I didn`t. I met a guy at a strip club that was totally wooing you with romance and I fell in love with him. And by the time we got done in Vegas he just sprung on me, well, I just want to let you know you have to give me every dollar.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So he turned.
LOBERT: That`s right, violent and aggressive. And by then I was already hook, line, and sinker in love.
BEHAR: You were in love with him?
LOBERT: Yes absolutely.
BEHAR: You were on drugs maybe? You were not on drugs?
LOBERT: Sober. Totally sober.
BEHAR: You were totally sober and you see -- you didn`t see a way out of this?
LOBERT: No. I didn`t.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Now, what about this "Hookers for Jesus"? What`s that?
LOBERT: This is something that I formed after I got out of the business. And I felt like I did not want to leave my friends behind. I felt so hurt for them because when I got out of it I overdosed and I had a heart attack and I had an epiphany with God.
BEHAR: You overdosed on what?
LOBERT: Cocaine.
BEHAR: Oh so you were using drugs.
LOBERT: At the very end.
BEHAR: At the end. And you had a -- what did say you had heart attack?
LOBERT: I had a heart attack.
BEHAR: Well, that -- and so you found Jesus after that.
LOBERT: I did. I did. And it just changed my life because I didn`t think, just growing up where I grew up I didn`t think God loved me. And so when I found out that I had value and I had worth it`s like my whole mindset changed.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I see.
LOBERT: And I thought to myself, I have to go back and tell the girls that they don`t have to do this. They don`t have to give their money away. They don`t have to be abused anymore. And so it seemed like a great idea and I started reaching out to the girls.
BEHAR: You were very maternal.
LOBERT: Yes, actually, I was.
BEHAR: Ok, Regina, you were 19 years old.
REGINA, FORMER PROSTITUTE: Yes.
BEHAR: When you -- and you were in the Navy. And you met a guy.
REGINA: Yes.
BEHAR: And then you became a prostitute and, in fact, you met your first pimp in the neighborhood -- in the neighborhood -- in the Navy.
REGINA: Yes.
BEHAR: How did that happen? That`s an odd thing to happen.
REGINA: It is odd. I actually read a book I bought on the base on the Navy base and it was talking about -- it -- it was called "Pimp" by Iceberg Slim. And I just -- I read the book and I found -- I met this guy. He looked like a pimp to me, like light green eyes, light skin, hair perm. And I actually went to him and asked him, I`m like are you a pimp? You know, and he was just like, I know a lot up in San Francisco. So --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So --
REGINA: -- that`s the guy I want to go up there.
BEHAR: So the book -- what it is the book made you --
REGINA: It was called -- it`s called "Pimp."
BEHAR: Yes.
REGINA: By Iceberg Slim.
BEHAR: I see.
REGINA: They sold it on the Navy base. So --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s interesting. I mean, I`ve been, you know, influenced by books. "Mind over Back Pain". That was one of the biggies for me. It really doesn`t reduce back pain. I`m just saying.
Now, you know, the thing in the -- in the show, it was so interesting. You say in a month you would have to work a month for what you make in a night. Is that right? Regina? I mean, it`s about the money, isn`t it?
REGINA: Well -- it is about the money. I mean, once you`re in it`s really hard to get out because you`re used to making so much money. I mean, what I get right now in a paycheck, I used to make it in like ten minutes, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What do you do now? What are you doing now?
(CROSSTALK)
REGINA: I`m in -- I`m working for like a marketing company.
BEHAR: Yes, but it`s a real, it`s legitimate job that probably has longevity.
REGINA: It is.
BEHAR: I don`t know if being a hooker has longevity. You know, it`s -- it`s a tough thing.
LOBERT: But -- but we learned a lot.
REGINA: If we didn`t have pimps maybe we could -- you know, be millionaires by now.
BEHAR: Listen, I`m on -- I`m on your side for that, if that`s the -- what you want to do, get rid of the middle man is what I say and just take the money yourself.
(CROSSTALK)
REGINA: I know. But you need -- you need -- you need pimps to protect you because once you get in and then you have a pimp, they`re after you because until you choose up again you`re basically still theirs. They -- they still feel like they own you and they want their -- they want your money.
BEHAR: You know, I saw the show, one clip of it anyway, and there is a very -- it is a very exploitative show in a certain way. I just have to say that. Because there were tons of pictures of naked women and behinds and pole dancing and everything else; I mean, is that the way they have to sell this show? You don`t have anything to do with that part do you?
REGINA: I don`t know.
What about you? What do you say to that?
LOBERT: Well, I just want to know -- let everyone know that that was who we were. And for us to be --
BEHAR: But it`s very titillating to the male audience that`s watching the show.
LOBERT: I understand that but hopefully people can look beyond that and understand that we were actually in the industry.
BEHAR: Yes. I see.
LOBERT: And it`s believable.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: So-called neo-Nazi John Ditullio took the stand yesterday charged with allegedly murdering someone he thought was gay. His lawyer advised him to cover up his Nazi tattoos so as not to prejudice the jury.
With me to talk about this is Curtis Sliwa, founder of the Guardian Angels and radio talk show host, of course. So Curtis, doesn`t covering the swastika tattoo unfairly influence the jury? I mean, he is a neo-Nazi and they`re telling him, don`t show those because the jury will be prejudiced.
CURTIS SLIWA, FOUNDER, GUARDIAN ANGELS: Oh my God. And go for a job interview also when you`re on parole, right? You got the Nazi swastika there. I think I should be the manager. Particularly I`d like to foreclose on any Jews coming in Shabbat.
Come on. This guy is what he is. And they`re making the argument that he didn`t have all those tats when he committed this crime.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SLIWA: He went to prison so he put the tats on and all the Nazi swastikas to protect his porker -- his back side so the blacks and Hispanics wouldn`t jump him and turn him into a speed bump so he had his --
BEHAR: Ok. Let me play the devil`s advocate.
SLIWA: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Charles Manson, remember him?
SLIWA: Oh, what a loony --
BEHAR: Oh, yes. He had a pin striped suit I understand when he went to trial and they cleaned his disgusting face up. So why not, you know, do that with this guy in a way? It`s like make it neutral so the audience, the jury can then decide on the -- only on the evidence?
SLIWA: Never having used makeup would that be Max Factor or L`Oreal?
(CROSSTALK)
SLIWA: With the liquid base and the powder right? Every day, like somebody comes in with makeup for this show?
BEHAR: Yes.
SLIWA: How much do they charge?
BEHAR: I tell you the taxpayer is paying $125 a day. What do you think of that?
SLIWA: Oh, my. That`s a lot of cheddar, that`s a lot of dead presidents. Can you believe this?
BEHAR: All right. Let`s look at the before and after pictures so we can decide. Here you have it. Let`s see.
There he is. He is a good looking man.
SLIWA: Confirmation, maybe communion picture, right.
BEHAR: And the scar, they covered the scar. See that? And they made him look presentable. Do you think it`ll work? The jury knows that it`s makeup.
SLIWA: Well, yes. But you understand you`ve seen the jury right? All of a sudden, yes, he`s innocent. No problem. That is the problem with juries. They have the mindset of a Tsetse fly. They completely void that out.
I say you are what you are. Be proud. You`re a neo-Nazi? Be proud so we can put you right in Gitmo. Right? We`re taking the terrorists out; we`re going to put you right there on con air with a hoodie over your head.
BEHAR: The other thing is that -- the jury knows he is a Nazi too. He calls himself that right? What is the difference if he had tattoos really? It`s just redundant.
SLIWA: You see the swastika on TV, all of the sudden, you go oh -- particularly if you`re a Jew you start hiding under the counter. It is a symbolic, frightful symbol. Sort of like imagine, for a girl, imagine if you were trying to say, look. I`m more of a nun and all of a sudden they show the jury your tramp stamp. You say a nun you`re not.
BEHAR: What are you -- are you talking about me? Are you talking to me? Who are you talking? You talking to me?
SLIWA: Joy, I would never suggest that you have a tramp stamp. Remember when we were growing up my father was a merchant seaman and he said you ever get a tattoo run off to the circus, pal, and lose my phone number.
BEHAR: All right. So in conclusion --
SLIWA: Guilty. Death penalty. Florida right? Death penalty state. Put the juice in his caboose.
BEHAR: I enjoy you`re (INAUDIBLE) every time you come in.
SLIWA: I`m fairly balanced.
BEHAR: Certainly fair and balanced.
We`ll be back in just a bit. Hang in there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Coming up a little later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, should parents allow their children to share the same bed as them? The great debate over co-sleeping. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Lindsay Lohan is reportedly hurt that Gwyneth Paltrow poked fun at her during her guest appearance as a Spanish substitute teacher on a recent episode of "Glee." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GWYNETH PALTROW, ACTRESS: (SPEAKING IN OTHER LANGUAGE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Excuse me, Ms. Holiday. A word?
PALTROW: (SPEAKING IN OTHER LANGUAGE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Lindsay is mucho pistofo. So, is it bad form for one celebrity to mock another? With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news are Andy Cohen, host of "Watch What Happens Live" on Bravo which is live all week, comedian Jennifer Rawlings, and Galina Espinoza, editorial director for Latina magazine. All right. Why is it OK, Andy, for "SNL" to mock Lindsay but not Gwyneth Paltrow?
ANDY COHEN, BRAVO`S EVP, ORIGINAL PROG. & DEVELOP: I think it`s fine for Gwyneth Paltrow to mock her. I want to know why Lindsay is watching "Glee" in rehab and why she`s taking Starbucks breaks in rehab, and like, shouldn`t rehab be lock down, no TV?
BEHAR: No, no. It`s not jail.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She didn`t kill anybody.
COHEN: But I mean let`s just focus on the rehab and not on "Glee" is all I`m saying.
BEHAR: OK.
JENNIFER RAWLINGS, COMEDIAN: It is hilarious, though, that she saw it at Betty Ford, and I think her mother instead of being upset about it should say, OK. My next intervention with Lindsay because it`s inevitable will be me barging into your million dollar home full of Disney (ph) and say, do you remember when Gwyneth Paltrow made fun of you on "Glee?" I mean, she needs to look at that. How did that make you feel?
COHEN: Right. Capture that feeling.
BEHAR: It`s kind of piling up on Lindsay isn`t it? I mean, she`s in trouble, the girl.
COHEN: It is -- no, I don`t care.
GALINA ESPINOZA, EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, LATINA: No press is bad press. She`s still getting headlines, you know? She`s still making publicity.
BEHAR: Who, Lindsay?
ESPINOZA: Yes. For her (INAUDIBLE) still getting headlines.
COHEN: It`s true. I mean, she`s not getting a lot of movie deals, and you know, and it would cost so much money to get insurance.
ESPINOZA: But people still buy her leggings.
COHEN: That`s true. Are her leggings selling?
ESPINOZA: Oh, huge.
COHEN: Lindsay Lohan`s?
ESPINOZA: Yes.
BEHAR: Lindsay`s leggings huge.
RAWLINGS: I didn`t even know she made leggings.
ESPINOZA: How could you not know? Go to any mall.
COHEN: You`re comedian. Do you think it`s off limits to make fun -- I mean, do you think she should be --
BEHAR: I`m just wondering why Gwyneth Paltrow decided to --
COHEN: I think Gwyneth Paltrow took a guest role on this huge show and they gave her a script and that`s what it was.
BEHAR: OK. She`s an actress. She has a brain in her head.
COHEN: Right. Right.
BEHAR: She can say, look, I don`t feel right about this. Of course, don`t put her on the writers.
COHEN: By the way, what was the -- I didn`t see the scene. I mean, I didn`t see the show. So, was the context of the show that the kids weren`t paying attention to her so she tried to make it something --
ESPINOZA: She was trying to be the cool high school Spanish teacher.
COHEN: Right. So then --
BEHAR: Like when I used to teach high school English, I`d have to teach the difference between who and whom, and I`d say whom do you wish to murder?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And then it`s relevant. You get it?
ESPINOZA: The parents know about that?
BEHAR: Yes. OK. Let`s talk about Carrie Fisher. Apparently, she outed her old friend, John Travolta, who often enlists his legal team to quash rumors that he`s gay. In a new interview with "The Advocate" she says, quote, "Wow. I mean, my feeling about John has always been that we know and we don`t care. Look, I`m sorry that he`s uncomfortable with it and that`s all I can say."
It only draws more attention to it when you make that kind of legal fuss. Just leave it be. We know and we don`t care? Who`s we exactly? Do you think Kim Jong-Il knows about it? Who knows about it?
ESPINOZA: I think he does.
BEHAR: Who knows about this?
COHEN: I love Carrie Fisher. I think she`s great.
BEHAR: She is. She`s brilliant.
COHEN: She is so smart and funny, but I thought that was kind of uncool.
BEHAR: It`s outing somebody if it`s true or not true.
COHEN: It`s not cool to out someone. And I couldn`t be gayer, but I don`t want anyone else outing me. I`ll out myself.
BEHAR: You`re gay? You`re so macho. I can`t -- no, really.
COHEN: Don`t, don`t.
BEHAR: You`re a cute gay guy. I`ll tell you that.
COHEN: Thank you.
BEHAR: You are cute.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, should --
COHEN: I think you`re attractive to me.
BEHAR: Thank you, sweetie. Are you attracted to John Travolta, too?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But no, should Carrie be worried that the scientologists will get her for this?
RAWLINGS: They will definitely get her. I`m sure of that. I`m sure she`s like on the next -- I don`t even think we`re allowed to say the word scientology, but I think John Travolta should be off limits not because he is a scientologist, but because he`s a great dancer, and, you know, he`s --
(CROSSTALK)
ESPINOZA: He just had another baby with Kelly Preston. So, let`s just leave him alone. He is living the life he wants to live. And right, it`s not for anyone else to say.
BEHAR: Do you think his dream came true when he was in "Hairspray?"
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: Why? Do you think every gay guy wants to be in a dress in a fat suit?
BEHAR: I don`t know. You tell me. You tell me.
(LAUGHTER)
RAWLINGS: I think Irving Hathaway (ph) was his dream come true.
COHEN: Right. Yes. Exactly.
RAWLINGS: With the spurs.
COHEN: Yes, really.
BEHAR: What about Carrie? Carrie admitted to sleeping with "Star Wars" fans at the height of her fame. She was like -- she must have been like smoking something stronger than salvia, you know what I mean? A salvia.
COHEN: I`m obsessed with salvia. I`m obsessed with salvia. Good for her.
RAWLINGS: I mean, if she slept with "Star Wars" fans, they`re like -- they`re sleeping at 35-year-old men living at their mothers when she was like 22. I mean, these are the same people that, like, go in costume places, right?
BEHAR: Have you ever slept with a fan, Andy?
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: No.
BEHAR: Have you?
RAWLINGS: Maybe.
COHEN: Oh, wow.
BEHAR: OK. Now, he`s --
COHEN: The night is young.
BEHAR: The night is young. Hugh Jackman knows how to make a dramatic entrance. We`re watching this video of him right now ziplining onto the set of an "Oprah" taping in Australia and then crashing. He nearly knocked over Tom Cruise who was standing on the couch, by the way. Kidding. OK. So, celebrities leave stunts to the stunt man? I don`t know if you saw the video. Because we saw it very fast.
COHEN: You know what, I would break a bone to be on "Oprah."
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: I totally would. I would. No, I love Oprah. I actually do love Oprah. And this season, she`s having such an insane season. The Jacksons, inside the Jackson compound. Like one after the other. The Marie Osmond thing.
BEHAR: And she`s not a lesbian, that whole thing.
COHEN: Right. That whole thing. I mean, like, I`m so obsessed with Oprah`s last season. I really am. I`d break a limb to get on the show.
ESPINOZA: I think it`s based on the power of Oprah and the lengths that people will go to to please her and to impress her. I mean, who else would do this?
BEHAR: Are you have a little (INAUDIBLE) that, oh, something went wrong on Oprah`s show?
RAWLINGS: Well, it doesn`t surprise me at all that Hugh Jackman can fly.
COHEN: Right.
RAWLINGS: I mean, that`s what`s really cool. And then, he immediately starts drinking wine. I mean, I love this.
ESPINOZA: He`s Australian. That`s how they do it.
BEHAR: I have to say in the spirit of truthfulness, I love Hugh Jackman. OK. Just saying. I love him. I think he`s the most brilliantly talented. Did you ever see "The Boy from Oz"?
COHEN: I did.
BEHAR: Where he plays Peter Allen?
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: Phenomenal talent. Phenomenal.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: And I love John Travolta, too. They`re both great dancers.
COHEN: I agree.
RAWLINGS: And who outed Peter Allen?
BEHAR: Who outed Peter Allen?
COHEN: Yes, well --
BEHAR: Well, he outed --
COHEN: Well, he married (INAUDIBLE).
(LAUGHTER)
COHEN: That was it.
BEHAR: All bets were off.
COHEN: Exactly. That was the clue.
BEHAR: OK. Now, the Golden Globes, want to talk about that?
COHEN: Yes. Speaking of salvia.
BEHAR: The nominations are out. "The Tourist" starring Angelina Jolie was nominated for Best Picture, but "127 Hours," the movie where James Franco cuts off his arm was not. Maybe, if he`d cut off his arm in Venice on a Perillo tour, he would have been nominated. See that`s the problem. Now, what do you make of that?
COHEN: Look, the Hollywood foreign press, you know, has always had a jokey -- you know, the impression of them is that they`re kind of salvia smoking, buffet lovers, who decide who they want to come to their party and that`s how they decide on who`s going to be nominated for Globes. I mean, that`s the vice (ph).
ESPINOZA: They`re nominating for the red carpet. They know that Angelina is going to get viewers to tune it, and she`s going to look stunning. I mean, Halle Berry. Has anyone even heard of this movie that she`s nominated for, but they want her on the red carpet.
RAWLINGS: I think they got it confused with, like, "America`s Next Top Model" casting list as opposed to actually the actors. They were confused which box they were filling out.
BEHAR: What about this movie "Burlesque?" I hear it`s a dog, and that was nominated.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: I thought -- you know what, if you`re going to just start throwing around nominations, give one to Cher. Everybody wants to see Cher at the party.
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: All right. All right.
BEHAR: Who else do you want to see? Who else do you want to see? Madonna?
COHEN: Just Cher.
BEHAR: Madonna will be on Piers Morgan. you can see her there --
COHEN: Right.
BEHAR: Not. Even Ms. Angelina Jolie, she was nominated in the comedic category. Even she had a laugh at that. She`s not funny.
RAWLINGS: She`s not funny.
BEHAR: She`s beautiful. Stick with that, Angelina. Can`t have everything, OK? You`re gorgeous. That`s enough.
COHEN: Right.
BEHAR: And she`s that gorgeous so you don`t need anything else.
COHEN: She is that gorgeous.
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: Yes.
BEHAR: So, OK. Thank you, guys, very much.
COHEN: Thank you.
BEHAR: OK. Jennifer Rawlings directorial debut "Forgotten Voices: Women In Bosnia," aren`t you something, is out on DVD. I know it`s not a comedy, and you`re comedian.
RAWLINGS: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, you`re out, kid (ph). You know, spreading your wings.
RAWLINGS: Tell a story.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute. Good for you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A new trend in parenting is causing a bit of controversy in mommy circles lately, and it`s called co-sleeping or bed sharing. That`s when an infant or child sleeps in a parent`s bed. So, is co-sleeping good or bad?
Here to discuss this hot button topic is CBS news medical correspondent and author, "The Body Scoop For Girls," Dr. Jennifer Ashton, and she`s also an OB-GYN. Alex McCord, star of the "Real Housewives of New York City" and the author of "Little Kids Big City," and pediatrician, Dr. Alanna Levine. Dr. Ashton, you and your husband have been co-sleeping with your daughter since she was 9 months old.
DR. JENNIFER ASHTON, CBS NEWS MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Right.
BEHAR: And she`s now 11 years old.
ASHTON: Thank goodness, it`s tapering off, and it really did not start as anything that had been planned. It was -- he did it and he knew - -
BEHAR: Who? The husband?
ASHTON: Yes. And he knew I was going to throw him under the bus. He did it when I was up all night on call delivering babies and my daughter would cry, and he took the path of least resistance, brought her into the bed so they could both fall asleep, and then, it became as most people know a habit. And by the time she was 5, she would say, I can`t fall asleep unless I`m sleeping next to a warm body.
BEHAR: How about a dog?
(LAUGHTER)
ALEX MCCORD, STAR, "THE REAL HOUSWIVES OF NYC": I was going to say, a dog, a cat?
ASHTON: That`s right.
MCCORD: A very big hamster?
ASHTON: So, you know, as I said, it started kind of by necessity and out of just the desire for both my husband, and then, subsequently, myself for all of us to get an uninterrupted good night of sleep.
BEHAR: Yes.
ASHTON: And then, what I noticed, though, is because I work and I oftentimes was not there in the morning as she was going to school or at night even when she was getting home from school is that became our bonding time. And it was something that we both really enjoyed.
BEHAR: So, it`s almost like you couldn`t get her out of the habit.
ASHTON: Yes, well, she preferred not to be out of the habit. And I have to say my older child, my son, was always a great sleeper and really did not sleep in the same bed with us.
BEHAR: I see. Now, Dr. Levine, do you agree with this? What do you say about this? Is it a good thing?
DR. ALANNA LEVINE, PEDIATRICIAN: Personally, I don`t think it`s a good thing. And I think that there are two issues. You have the newborn infant period where children are under one year of age and there is a real safety concern there.
BEHAR: Well, yes. You could smother the child.
LEVINE: Exactly.
BEHAR: Right.
LEVINE: You can roll over on the child. You can smother the child. An adult bed is not a safe sleeping environment for a young child. There shouldn`t be pillows and comforters and cushioning and mattresses for young children. So, that`s one thing.
But the second thing is what Dr. Ashton is talking about is more of sort of a parenting preference and a decision the parents can make with their child whether or not they think that this is healthy for their family life and their family environment and that`s sort of a different issue than the safety concerns that I worry about more with young children.
BEHAR: Right. Right. Now, Alex what did you do?
MCCORD: Actually, I walked the line. Both our boys who are now 5 and 7 slept with us from birth to 4 months every night, and then, at 4 months we kicked them out, put them in their own crib. That was it. The end. The reason that -- I don`t have (INAUDIBLE) for everyone, but neither my husband nor I have any of the risk factors. We`re not heavy sleepers. We don`t abuse drugs or alcohol.
BEHAR: So, you weren`t worried you were going to roll over and kill the kid.
MCCORD: Well, we`ve also, our whole lives, grew up with dogs and cats sleeping with us always. A dog and a cat are not the same as a baby, but we felt comfortable, and also, I nursed exclusively. So, I could roll over and nurse and get a good night`s sleep. I think, ultimately, it`s about getting a good night`s sleep and what`s best for you and your family.
BEHAR: Aren`t you supposed to get a nurse or something? Don`t people in the middle class these days have a night nurse when the baby is born?
MCCORD: I had people to clean for me. The baby was my department.
BEHAR: I see.
LEVINE: Yes. And I think, you know, there are some people that do have baby nurses, but I think that there are also plenty of women who exclusively breastfeed their children like me, for instance. I nursed both my kids for more than a year each, but from day one, they slept in their own cribs, their own bassinet. I got up. I fed them. I put them back.
You have to change their diaper in the middle of the night anyway. So, it`s not like you`re just sort of rolling over and nursing. And I think that what you have to realize is, like I said before, you really want to make sure that you have a firm mattress, no blankets, no pillows.
BEHAR: Yeah. But that would be for the safety.
LEVINE: And most people don`t sleep that way.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about the psychological part about it a little bit. The opponents of it say that you can, you know, it`s too mergy with the kid. Supporters say it`s good bonding. What do you say?
ASHTON: Well, I say that by the time they go to college, hopefully, they will be out of diapers and able to sleep by themselves.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
ASHTON: OK. And until that point, any parent of an older child will tell you, those years go by quickly, and I think that, you know, having my child sleep in the same bed with me or my husband now that she`s gotten older, obviously, it`s been more me than my husband, has actually made us closer and made her more independent because it`s made her more secure. She is able to go to sleep away camp. She`s able to be without us. She just prefers to be closer to me.
BEHAR: I see.
ASHTON: And I think that not everyone reads the parenting manual or those guidelines. Not that they`re bad, but life, sometimes, requires a little bit of flexibility.
MCCORD: And I agree with you on that. I think what you have to do is take information everywhere you can get it, and then, make your own decisions. You know what works for me doesn`t work for you or for you.
LEVINE: Right. I mean, it`s definitely not a one size fits all, you know, model of parenting for all children, but my view is sort of different. I feel that when you bring a child into your home and they`re a newborn, you nurture them, you coddle them, you need to do everything for them. But your job as a parent then is to little by little as it`s developmentally appropriate for them enable them and help them do things on their own.
They learn to feed themselves. They learn to walk without being carried. They learn to get up and get dressed by themselves and going to sleep is another part of that process.
MCCORD: Sure.
LEVINE: It`s so empowering for children to know that they can do things on their own. And I think it`s our role as parents to sort of encourage that process.
BEHAR: What about school? Did your child have any trouble --
ASHTON: She asked me to go to school with her. I said no.
(LAUGHTER)
ASHTON: No, actually, not at all. And that`s where I think that, you know, as we all are actually in agreement on this fact, you do have to look at the child, and you also have to look at the parent and do what feels right. My daughter is incredibly independent. She is a team leader and a leader in her class and leader at camp and really is quite stable on her own. And I think, partially, she gets that because of the time we`ve spent together.
BEHAR: Are you saying you have other kids?
ASHTON: I have an older son.
BEHAR: He did not do this?
ASHTON: No. He was a perfect sleeper from 11 weeks of age.
BEHAR: And how much older is he than that girl?
ASHTON: 17 months older.
BEHAR: So, is he jealous that she got to sleep with the parents and he didn`t?
ASHTON: I think now he`s probably happy because he gets the whole bed to himself, and he can stretch out. But I think that, you know, when you look at the individual child and you look at the parent, you have to weigh the pros and cons and see whether it`s right for you.
BEHAR: How do you get them out of this, though? You know, it`s really hard to break them of the habit.
LEVINE: Exactly.
BEHAR: What do you do --
LEVINE: Exactly. And so, I think that as a parent when you`re making decisions, you have to realize that every habit is going to need to be broken at some point. I think with this sort of thing I have so many patients in my practice who come to me who can`t get their kids out of the bed, and the most important thing is you have to have a consistent message that`s the same every single time.
ASHTON: Yes.
LEVINE: So, if they walk into your room at night and you`ve decided to walk them back to their room, you have to keep doing that. It may be 45 times.
BEHAR: But don`t they feel rejected at that point? Hey, I`ve been sleeping with these two people all these years, and now, they throw me out?
MCCORD: We did it at four months. And we sort of adapted pulverizing (ph) for our own uses. And it was kind of -- I mean, it was hard for a little while, but then, it was done and over.
BEHAR: OK. When we come back, I want to ask you about your sex lives, all right? We`ll be right back. Really. Because that`s got to be a problem.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is where they sleep. We practice family bed.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, what do you do when you want to, you know, be alone? Go out to the car or --?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. We don`t go out to the car. Are you planning on hiding your love making from your kids?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Back with my panel. We`re talking about whether it`s a good idea to let your children sleep in the same bed with you. I mean, it does have to put a damper on your sex life. Who wants to start with that one?
LEVINE: My kids aren`t in my bed, so I`m doing fine.
BEHAR: You`re having the best sex life probably.
MCCORD: We were here first and it`s all about that. That`s part of why we got them out at 4 months because, I mean, part of what I think makes a great parent is having a good relationship, and you need a little something to keep that going.
BEHAR: That`s going to put a damper on your sex life, I mean, all those years.
ASHTON: I think marriage and life can put a damper on your sex life.
BEHAR: That`s true.
(LAUGHTER)
ASHTON: I think it forces you to be a little creative. It forces you not to be dull. I think, you know, I`ve worked with some sex therapists who say the worst thing that can happen to you is to just think of your bedroom as a place for sex.
BEHAR: Really?
ASHTON: Because when you were younger and you were wild and you were living on the edge, you would find all these creative places to have sex and make love.
BEHAR: Who said that?
ASHTON: Some sex therapists.
(LAUGHTER)
ASHTON: Who are you talking to?
BEHAR: I can`t just picture, they sneak out of the bed, leaving the kids sleeping.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVINE: And what if she notices that she`s alone?
ASHTON: There you go. So, I think it does kind of have to bring some excitement and some originality and creativity to, you know, your situation.
BEHAR: Well, you threw the kid out at 4 months. So, you weren`t doing much for those first four months anyway.
MCCORD: No. That was the waiting period.
BEHAR: Those are the months of get off of me or I`ll kill you.
(LAUGHTER)
MCCORD: Pretty much.
BEHAR: Right?
LEVINE: No. I think the bedroom is supposed to be a sanctuary for two people. I mean, that`s how it all started. That`s how you got the kids to begin with. I mean, I think that you need to sort of maintain that privacy and intimacy and make it yours.
MCCORD: I like your idea of not only doing it in the bedroom.
LEVINE: Well, it`s a separate issue, though
ASHTON: Exactly. But I think also we have to put this into a global context, you know? We are one of the few countries in the world whereby luxury or by convenience, we happen to usually have a bedroom for every person living in the house. The majority of the world doesn`t have that luxury. So, when they go to sleep, everyone in the family is going into one room and they`re sleeping together.
BEHAR: Well, I have a statistic I was telling you before, 93 percent of children in India between the ages of 3 to 10 bed share with their parents.
ASHTON: Right.
BEHAR: That`s India. But in North America, Europe, and Australia, the standard -- the standard practice is not in those countries on those continents. But every (INAUDIBLE) else they do it. Probably Africa.
ASHTON: And again, you know, I think that`s one way to put it into context. The other way is societally, again, I`m a working mom. I don`t have a lot of time during the waking hours with my children, and so, I needed to get that connection any way I could. I needed it and my daughter needed it. And I think that it was very important to her.
BEHAR: But 11 is a little old.
ASHTON: Well, we`re tapering off now.
(LAUGHTER)
ASHTON: She`s got to get out now.
MCCORD: we are tapering off.
BEHAR: Yes, because that`s too much already. 11. At what age would you say she should have kicked the kid out?
LEVINE: I wouldn`t have brought her in to begin with.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVINE: Certainly, by age 5 when kids are going to school, I mean, I think it`s, you know, that`s a time where they`re living life on their own, and I think they should really be empowered to do that.
BEHAR: Make a great room for them if you have the space, of course. As she said, a lot of people don`t have the bedroom.
MCCORD: I`d like to make a great room for myself.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. That was very interesting. Thanks very much, ladies. Thank you all for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
