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Joy Behar Page
Pedophile Guide Prosecution; Sensational Sigourney
Aired December 21, 2010 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: I`ve learned so much this past year. I`ve learned that Christine O`Donnell is not a witch and that Oprah is not a lesbian. Ok. I can accept all that. But do not try to tell me that Bristol Palin is not a dancer. I`ll start to cry. You know, even I have limits.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW parents everywhere were relieved after the author of a disgusting how-to guide for pedophiles was arrested by Florida cops. But was it entrapment? Is he protected by the First Amendment?
Then, it`s part one of Joy`s look back at this year`s wildest stories, from the royal engagement to the rise of the Tea Party to the rise and fall and rise of Conan O`Brien. Joy and her panel will recap it all.
Plus, legendary actress Sigourney Weaver is here.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Phillip Greaves, the man behind the "Pedophile`s Guide to Love and Pleasure" is now behind bars but for how long? Greaves was arrested in Colorado yesterday where he lives after police in Florida set up an undercover operation and purchased a signed copy of the book.
Take a listen to what Polk County, Florida sheriff Grady Judd had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHERIFF GRADY JUDD, POLK COUNTY, FLORIDA: The message is very clear. If you write a book, if you sell that book, if you transmit that book to anyone in our jurisdiction, we will investigate you and arrest you, because our goal is to protect the children.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
As despicable as this book absolutely is, many now question the method of the arrest and if Florida can successfully prosecute Greaves. Here to talk about this are: CNN senior legal analyst and writer for "The New Yorker" Jeffrey Toobin and Polk County, Florida sheriff, Grady Judd himself.
Greaves is booked in Florida to day. Listen to him telling the press what he thinks about the charges against him before we continue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PHILLIP GREAVES, AUTHOR, "THE PEDOPHILE`S GUIDE TO LOVE AND PLEASURE: I think they`re really kind of weird. I mean, I was not the one who solicited the material to be sent to Florida. And I think Florida law is for Floridians and Colorado law is for Coloradoans. I think this is entrapment, absolutely yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Sheriff, one of your detectives requested a copy of the book from Greaves and he sent a signed copy through the mail. How do you respond to his entrapment claim?
JUDD: Yes. He`s just not familiar with the entrapment law. He wrote this book on how to sexually batter children. He put it up on Amazon. He sold it commercially. We requested a copy of it. He was more than happy to provide it to us. And he did.
In fact, he autographed it for us. He mailed it to us and that gave us jurisdiction. Of course, we`ll let the courts make their ultimate determination, but we not only investigated this. We went to the state attorney`s office, let their legal folks look at it, then had an independent review by a circuit judge who gave us the warrant. So we`re very comfortable with our charges.
BEHAR: Ok. So, Jeffrey, it sounds like they did everything they had to do.
JEFFREY TOOBIN, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I think the sheriff is right about entrapment. I don`t think that this was entrapment.
BEHAR: Oh.
TOOBIN: No one forced him to send this book. However, I think there is a real question about the underlying charge about whether this book is illegal, whether it is permissible under the First Amendment to prosecute someone for writing a book like that. Personally based on what I`ve seen of the book the answer is no. I think it`s protected by the First Amendment.
BEHAR: You do. I mean the federal law states it is against the law to visually depict minors engaging in obscene behavior of any kind.
TOOBIN: Right.
BEHAR: There weren`t any pictures in this book right?
TOOBIN: Exactly. In 2002 the Supreme Court had a case involving what were essentially cartoons, worse stuff that`s in Greaves book. I mean really more objectionable because it looked pretty realistic.
But the Supreme Court said because there were no actual minors harmed the way they would be in actual photographs or videos it was protected by the First Amendment. And I think the courts would treat this book the same way it since it is just words.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Sheriff, help me out here, sheriff. What Jeffrey is saying is true. How were you able really to arrest him? There were no pictures in there and that would be the federal law.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Are the laws different in Florida is what I`m saying? Is there some little wiggle room in a state like Florida?
JUDD: I respect Jeffrey`s opinion, but he`s dealing with child pornography. We didn`t charge under our child pornography laws. We charged under obscenity laws. And there is a law specifically on porn in Florida that talks about how you transmit or communicate information that`s harmful to minors.
And, certainly, with this book by Phillip Greaves where he gives a step-by-step instructional guide of how to sexually batter children, that`s on point with our Florida law. That`s the beauty of our court system. He`ll have the opportunity to appear before a judge and a jury of his peers, here in Florida, and then there is the appellate process.
I respect the First Amendment. I love the First Amendment and all of the constitution. I defend it every day. I like to voice my opinion as well. But you know, Joy, there are some things you just can`t do. You can`t threaten the President. You can`t talk about bombs on an airplane.
BEHAR: Right.
JUDD: You certainly can`t teach people how to sexually batter children and that`s where we fall on this particular issue.
BEHAR: Well, we agree with you, sheriff. I agree with that. You can`t yell fire in a crowded theater.
TOOBIN: Right.
BEHAR: There are certain things that are not covered by the First Amendment.
TOOBIN: Just because you use words doesn`t mean that you have absolute immunity.
BEHAR: Right.
TOOBIN: If I say you to give me a million dollars or I`ll kill you, that`s extortion. Those are just words. That`s a crime.
BEHAR: Ok.
TOOBIN: However, when we are dealing with a book that is a form of expression like this is, even if the charge is just obscenity, not child pornography, which is the distinction the sheriff is making, I think -- and you know, he is right that the Florida courts will deal with this and maybe they`ll come to a different conclusion.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: But I think when you are just talking about what is essentially a work of fiction where he describes, you know, imaginary encounters between adults and boys or you know, offers a kind of advocacy for it, I think that is protected by the First Amendment.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
TOOBIN: Look, unfortunately, there are a lot of really awful things depicted in literature. One of the most famous books of the 20th century "Lolita" by Nabokov, you know, deals with these themes. "Mein Kampf" by Hitler has horrible things in it. Both are sold widely, openly. So it`s very hard to draw a line where a work of advocacy, a work of fiction can be seen as a crime in and of itself.
BEHAR: Ok. How do you respond to that, sheriff? Jeffrey is saying that it`s a work of fiction. He said by the way -- that it`s actually a reformers` guide for pedophiles, by the way. That`s just FYI. What about this fiction part?
JUDD: Yes, Joy. You know, I don`t agree that it`s fiction. If you believe what he wrote in words, he said that the two examples he gave of having sex with a child as young as 9 and 13 were clearly true with the exception that he changed about 10 percent of it, the names to protect the kids.
I don`t think it`s just an expression when you`re doing a how-to book to sexually batter children to avoid apprehension or detection and to practice safe sex with children. I think it goes over the line. And quite frankly, it`s our goal to protect the most vulnerable in our society and that`s our children.
BEHAR: We agree with that.
TOOBIN: Here is the distinction. If there is evidence that Greaves had sex with children, that is a monstrous crime and he should be prosecuted for having sex with children.
BEHAR: Right.
TOOBIN: Not for writing a book about having sex with children. That`s the real distinction here.
BEHAR: But even if it causes other pedophiles to then molest children?
TOOBIN: See, I don`t think you can ever do that when it comes to a work, a written work.
BEHAR: A pedophile will do it anyway.
TOOBIN: We don`t know. Remember, when they wanted to, you know, prosecute Oliver Stone for "Natural-Born Killers" because it supposedly caused people to do things.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: We don`t understand human beings well enough to know what causes them to commit crimes.
BEHAR: Well, I think you make a good point.
TOOBIN: So I think the underlying conduct, the having sex with children, that should be prosecuted and those people should be thrown away forever. But once you start getting into prosecuting people for writing about it.
BEHAR: Yes.
TOOBIN: I think it is a much more questionable ground.
BEHAR: Well, it`s an interesting point, sheriff, that you cannot cause someone to have a certain kind of behavior by writing about it or even a how-to. You know, there are books like movies for idiots. It doesn`t mean that the person is going to go to the movies and believe everything that`s in the book just because it`s in the book. Not that that is a great example but it just came to me. What do you say to that?
JUDD: Right. Well, here is what I say. If we wait until the child is a victim of a sexual battery, that child is ruined forever. And then, yes, we can investigate and put that person in jail.
BEHAR: Yes.
JUDD: But how many people that are watching your program tonight want your child to become a victim of sexual predators?
BEHAR: I`m sure none.
JUDD: Before we arrest them? Wouldn`t we much rather stop those predators before they get to our children? And when you have a fellow who says he`s an adolescent pedophile, and that he has been engaged in conduct that is sex of a child, shouldn`t -- and he`s actively promoting and educating and teaching -- shouldn`t we do something about that. And we are here.
BEHAR: Yes. Listen, I`m with you, sheriff. And so is Jeffrey. But, unfortunately, the law may prevent you from prosecuting this guy, which gives me pain quite frankly.
TOOBIN: It`s a tough call.
BEHAR: I hate it.
TOOBIN: Yes.
BEHAR: All right. Thank you everybody. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, from the royal engagement to the disastrous Jay Leno/Conan O`Brien debacle, we`ll take a look back at some of the biggest stories of 2010. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Sigourney Weaver is known for playing strong women in movies like "Alien", "Working Girl" and "Avatar" and "Gorillas in the Mist". In the Emmy-nominated "Prayers for Bobby", now out on DVD, she plays a deeply religious woman who struggles to accept her gay son. Let`s look at it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SIGOURNEY WEAVER, ACTRESS: It`s not me. It`s the Bible.
RYAN KELLEY, ACTOR: It`s not the Bible. It`s you. Why can`t you admit that? Why can`t you admit that you can`t stand what I am?
WEAVER: What you`ve become.
KELLEY: What I am. I`m sorry. I`m not the perfect little Bobby you always wanted. But I can`t keep apologizing for it, mom. Accept me as I am or forget it.
WEAVER: I won`t have a gay son.
KELLEY: Then, mom, you don`t have a son.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is the very talented Ms. Sigourney Weaver. Hi Sigourney. How are you my dear?
WEAVER: Hi. Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Do friends call you Susan? Because I know that`s your real name.
WEAVER: No. They call me Siggy.
BEHAR: Siggy. Oh, like Sigmund Freud.
WEAVER: Well, yes. We`re very similar, Freud and I. Deep.
BEHAR: Have you ever been through -- this is a personal question --
WEAVER: Have I never not been through psychoanalysis. Yes. I recently stopped actually.
BEHAR: Did you?
WEAVER: I felt like, I`m done. You know? I`m finished. I`m as evolved as I`m going to get.
BEHAR: Yes. I went for many years, too. When I was done she said to me, you don`t need this nonsense anymore. Nonsense? I`ve been paying you all this money.
WEAVER: That`s very liberated of her.
BEHAR: You don`t need this nonsense, she said.
WEAVER: Great.
BEHAR: There I was shmugging (ph) my guts out for 20 years. Whatever.
WEAVER: Like that verb.
BEHAR: Shmugging. It`s Italian. Like get it out -- vent.
WEAVER: Excellent. I`ll shmug here on the show.
BEHAR: Say whatever you want here. So the movie, which I watched last night, I think I might have seen it when it first came out, also.
But it`s -- it resonated even more now because of the -- it`s about a gay boy, Bobby Griffith, killed himself in 1983. And with the spate of gay suicides these days and the homophobia that we`ve experienced recently though we`ve made some strides it was so relevant.
WEAVER: I think so, too. I think that apparently gay suicide hasn`t gone up. It`s still the, you know, the fourth most common cause of death on college campuses for lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth, but the media is paying more attention to it.
And I think between that and, for instance, the "don`t ask don`t tell" repeal, this is a, you know, the dialogue is really beginning in this country and has been for the last couple of years, which I think is a very healthy sign.
BEHAR: Yes.
WEAVER: Because I think Mary Griffith, because this is based on a true story, she needed more exposure to people talking about these issues.
BEHAR: Absolutely.
WEAVER: And the importance of acceptance and the naturalness of being gay, you know.
BEHAR: Well, I think that people out there who are homophobic or fearful or whatever they are of gays, when they realize that their postman could be gay.
WEAVER: Exactly.
BEHAR: You know, the girl at Wal-Mart could be a lesbian, then they say oh, really? That`s sort of what this movie shows you. As she becomes familiar she gets more tolerant.
WEAVER: I think that`s true. And it`s clear that it is a difficult subject for some families and it`s been, you know, they`ve shown that in a highly rejecting family like Bobby`s, the child is eight times more likely to attempt suicide.
BEHAR: Right.
WEAVER: And this suicide of her son, because they were so close, and when I visited the family, this was a family that adored each other.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s a loving family.
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s not the issue.
WEAVER: But she was so frightened and ignorant, she would be the first to say that, and really it took his death I`m afraid to wake her up and start her on a path where she got in touch with P Flag and P Flag which is an organization which helps families deal with these issues. They, you know, she then became a great spokesperson for P Flag.
BEHAR: Right, right. People should stop cherry picking in the Bible which is what she was doing.
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: Deuteronomy said this. Deuteronomy said this. Who is Deuteronomy? I never really read the Bible. I`m a Catholic. I read the missal.
WEAVER: Right.
BEHAR: Like, the first time I saw a Bible was in a hotel.
WEAVER: No kidding.
BEHAR: So, I`m not really familiar with the Bible.
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: But I looked up a couple things. It says in Deuteronomy 22:13-21, a marriage should be considered valid only if the wife is a virgin. If the wife is not a virgin, she shall be executed. Well, I mean, we`d have to kill everybody. You know what I mean?
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: So obviously the Bible is not always consistent.
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: So people just pick what they want.
Now, let me ask you about yourself because you play the ass-kicking action heroine, Ripley, in the "Alien" franchise.
WEAVER: Right.
BEHAR: Some people think you`re a feminist icon. Do you?
WEAVER: You know, I don`t think that`s my job to figure out what it is I`m doing. I love playing Ripley and, you know, it`s interesting. I think I created this role just when another dialogue was starting about having women work in a lot of fields that were traditionally male- dominated.
It was when we were starting to talk about having women in combat, so I think that what Ripley represented to people was a big step forward for women. And that`s why she`s, you know, she`s not waiting around for some guy to come and make it ok. So in that sense she`s, you know, it`s her character that allows her to succeed I think.
And it was -- she could be a man or a man but in this case, it was a woman because the producer thought, well, no one will ever think a woman will be able to do this. It wasn`t a feminist --
BEHAR: You didn`t even want to take the part I heard. Did you?
WEAVER: Well, I wanted to be in the theater and I only wanted to work with Woody Allen and Mike Nichols. That`s the way -- I wanted to do one film every five years.
BEHAR: And get paid nothing.
WEAVER: Exactly. To me that was art and then I was so fortunate. I`ve been so fortunate in my career to work with a lot of brilliant directors who were doing something a little different and wanted me, you know, the six-foot tall creature to be a part of it.
BEHAR: I know you worked with Mike Nichols in "Working Girl". Have you worked with Woody too?
WEAVER: I have worked with Woody.
BEHAR: What movie was that?
WEAVER: It`s a little strange. I was offered a very good part in Annie Hall and I actually didn`t do it because I was in an off Broadway play (INAUDIBLE). So he gave me a little walk on at the end of Annie Hall when he meets Diane Keaton and they both have dates. I`m Woody`s date.
But I`ve never worked with him since. I worked with him on a comedy called "Company Men" but as a fellow actor.
BEHAR: I see.
WEAVER: I`m still waiting for my big chance with Woody Allen.
BEHAR: This movie "Prayers for Bobby" you`re not the hot, sexy babe that you are in a lot of your movies. This movie you`re the plain, religious, good wife type.
WEAVER: Well, I was able to meet Mary Griffith and spend some time with her. She showed me her Bible. We went through, I have to say that when I first read the script, this is based on Mary`s book with Leroy Aarons who is a great journalist. And it`s called "Prayers for Bobby "and it`s the book that kids would give their families when they wanted to start this discussion.
BEHAR: Yes.
WEAVER: -- about their being gay. One of the reasons we wanted to make the movie was so there could be a DVD.
BEHAR: I see.
WEAVER: That you could also share with your family to start this.
BEHAR: And everybody can see it. It`s wonderful. It`s just wonderful.
Now, don`t go away. We`ll have more.
WEAVER: Ok.
BEHAR: In the next segment with Sigourney Weaver.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEAVER: This past few weeks I`ve heard this funny little sound way deep down inside. Tick tock, tick tock, tick tock, my biological clock.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big deal. The principals are all meeting at 2:00.
WEAVER: I`ve been thinking, let`s merge. You and I. Think of it, darling. Mr. and Mrs. Fabulously Happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Mr. and Mrs. Fabulously Happy. That was Sigourney Weaver, one of my favorite movies "Working Girl". I have some twitter questions for you but what`s the name of the boy in "Prayers for Bobby"?
WEAVER: I just want to mention, Ryan Kelley who played Bobby who -- the whole cast was wonderful but I really -- he was amazing I thought is this young man.
BEHAR: I`m sure he`ll be working for a long time. He was very good.
WEAVER: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: I don`t know if people realize or know Pat Weaver was your father. Is he not with us anymore?
WEAVER: He isn`t. He`s moved on to another realm.
BEHAR: He`s passed. He was a legendary NBC executive which is interesting to us over here because you know what happened with Conan.
WEAVER: Yes.
BEHAR: And Leno and everything this year. Just a guess, what do you think your father would have made of all of that?
WEAVER: I think he probably would have thought it was a mistake but I think that he absolutely would feel that both shows had the right to find an audience at the right time. You know, you have to be in the right time slot.
BEHAR: Yes. But would he have said to Jay who was in a successful show, in five years we`re firing you?
WEAVER: I don`t think he ever thought like that. He didn`t think in a corporate way.
BEHAR: Right. Ok. We like to know what the greats would have thought.
WEAVER: Well I don`t know.
BEHAR: Well you know your daddy. Here is a twitter question.
You`ve been married for 26 years to your husband, Jim. What`s your secret? Someone wants to know.
WEAVER: I don`t know. I think I married such a lovely guy and I actually saw Sting in a concert he gave in Madrid recently and he`s been married 30 something years and he said the secret is travel. Traveling apart, you know. Then you come back together and it`s so great to see each other.
So we, you know, we share a lot of the same passion. You know, we run a small theater downtown.
BEHAR: I know. I`ve been there.
WEAVER: Thank you for coming.
BEHAR: I saw you in that wonderful play.
WEAVER: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: You were terrific. I can`t --
WEAVER: Mrs. Farnsworth?
BEHAR: Yes.
WEAVER: Ok. So that`s a great passion for us. I think I`m just very lucky that I met such a lovely guy.
BEHAR: And he`s lucky.
WEAVER: Well, he thinks he is lucky which is lucky for me.
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s right. The two of you are wonderful together I`m sure.
Now, does Sigourney have ever had "Alien" nightmares? Someone wants to know.
WEAVER: I had one nightmare. It`s really pathetic. I dreamt I was on a cruise ship, aliens had infested the ship, and I wasn`t going to lead anyone to safety. I hid underneath a deck chair with a towel over my head and I thought I was going to be all right. That was my nightmare.
BEHAR: I don`t think that was a nightmare.
WEAVER: What would Freud say about?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Didn`t that just happen on Carnival Cruises? Ok. One more question and then we have to wrap it I`m afraid.
Sigourney looks like she hasn`t aged a day. What`s her secret?
WEAVER: Wow. That`s very nice. That person needs an appointment with the optometrist. I have very good hair and makeup people who -- Laurie and Sandy, thank you. It`s all about hair and makeup.
BEHAR: Remember when Cher won the Oscar and just thanked her hair and makeup and nobody else.
WEAVER: I can understand it.
BEHAR: Certainly, especially in her case where they really put her together.
Ok. Thanks Sigourney for doing this.
WEAVER: Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: "Prayers for Bobby" is out now on DVD.
Up next I`ll be joined by some of my favorite people of the year to talk about some of my favorite stories of the year. Ok.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Later this week on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, actress, Amy Sedaris drops by to talk about her new book "Simple Times, Crafts for Poor People" and actor Denis Leary. Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: 2010 was the good year for breaking news, big stories, and most important juicy gossip. Is there anything more exciting than a celebrity wedding? Maybe celebrity rehab, but let`s leave that to Dr. Drew. In November, Prince William and Kate Middleton announced their engagement. The pair revealed their joy to the world. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PRINCE WILLIAM, GREAT BRITAIN: She`s excited, and you know, we`re looking forward to spending the rest of the time and the rest of our lives together and seeing what the future holds.
KATE MIDDLETON, FIANCEE OF PRINCE WILLIAM: (INAUDIBLE) I don`t know what I`m sort of -- I don`t know the ropes when it comes -- but now I`m willing to learn quickly and work hard.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Excuse me.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Here to talk about royal love and other wild stories in 2010 are Joe Levy, editor-in-chief from "Maxim" magazine, Rebecca Dana, senior correspondent at the "Daily Beast," and John Fugelsang, actor and television personality extraordinaire. Welcome to the show, guys. The British tabloids call her Katy waity because she was engaged for eight years. Why do you suppose she waited so long, Joe?
JOE LEVY, MAXIM: Ah, he`s a prince? He`s going to be a king? I think, ladies, wait for that. Someday, my prince will come kind of thing.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, I know.
LEVY: And I think they wrote a whole song about it.
BEHAR: Yes, they did. That`s true. What do you think, Rebecca? Would you wait for a guy of eight years?
REBECCA DANA, DAILY BEAST: well --
LEVY: She`s hesitating. This is a loaded question. It`s happening right now, isn`t it?
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: You`re messing around with that guy`s brother. There is a royal in your life.
DANA: I think she was just waiting for him to start to lose his looks a little bit.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, it`s happened.
DANA: It seems to have just happened, and now, they`re engaged.
BEHAR: He sort of -- he`s not cute (ph) anymore.
DANA: He`s lost his hair. He`s going more from Diana to the Charles side of the spectrum.
BEHAR: Exactly.
DANA: So, he`s going to lock it in now.
BEHAR: Do you think the other boy, what`s his name? Harry.
LEVY: Harry.
DANA: Harry.
BEHAR: He`s genetically Charles --
JOHN FUGELSANG, COMEDIAN: At least his half brother, Joy, of course.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What do you think?
FUGELSANG: People are being too hard on the guy. You know, it`s not every day a future fake (ph) king of England gets engaged. It`s a really big occasion. I like William. I`m starting a support group for straight men who don`t mind William because he is the first one ever to like kind of realize it`s all a load of crap. And in his interviews, it`s like hello, yes, it`s all rubbish, I know. It`s all rubbish, hello, I know. And he`s got kind of his mother`s irreverence with his father`s, you know, passion for social justice. He`s a decent guy. I`m always happy when a rich, white, powerful prince finds love.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I am too. It does your heart good. Rebecca, he`s a bit of a snorer (ph), though, isn`t he?
DANA: They`re both extremely, aggressively boring.
(LAUGHTER)
DANA: So, they seem perfect. I think what have they been doing the last eight years? Just sort of like looking at each other from opposite sides of a room. It must be a wild pair in the bedroom.
BEHAR: And what about the fact that the queen likes her? This woman couldn`t stand anybody. Look what she did to Fergie and Diana. She likes this girl, and this girl is not royal. What`s that about?
LEVY: She won`t make trouble? You know, I mean, listen, she waited eight years for this. If you look at it from that perspective, the queen likes her because she won`t make trouble. She didn`t put pressure on him. She`s extremely poised. If you read the British papers, supposedly, she`s never put a foot wrong whatever that means. It`s some British saying for not screwing up, I guess.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: You know, I mean, they like her. He waited so long because he wants to make sure everything is perfect. And, you know, he got his mom`s approval.
BEHAR: You know what, we wish them well.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Boring as they are, we still wish them well.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Very nice. But you know, boring is not so bad. There could be worse.
FUGELSANG: No. We love (ph) C-span.
BEHAR: Exactly. Moving on. With Conan back in late night with a new show on TBS, the question still burns. What really went down behind the scenes in the late night wars between Jay, Conan, and NBC? Now, I, personally, asked Jay if he felt bad about Conan being ousted from NBC backstage at the "Tonight`s Show" back in March. So, listen to his response.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAY LENO, HOST, THE TONIGHT`S SHOW WITH JAY LENO: Conan got screwed. I got screwed. I mean, this is TV. The reason show business pays a lot of money is so when you got screwed, you got something left over. Conan was treated terribly, and I was treated terribly.
BEHAR: Right.
LENO: And guys, make a decision. I think Conan will come back, and he`ll be strong. And, you know, we`ll all compete against one another. Should be me against Letterman against Conan against Kimmel and you see who wins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I was so talkative there, wasn`t I?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Let`s refresh our memory. NBC told Conan he would get "The Tonight Show" in five years. Jay Leno was going to get kicked out even though he had a hit show, the ratings were great. When he got it, Jay moved to 10:00 p.m. and then seven months later, Jay is back and Conan`s gone, and now, he`s on cable. Why would they do that to these people?
LEVY: Because they`re morons. I mean, I don`t think there`s any question about this. These NBC people, they`re morons. Boy, just the numbskull broadcasting agency -- I don`t know. I mean, why would you ever make a deal like that? They`re so scared of losing one of their toys. Why would you ever make a deal like that? Don`t leave us. In five years, we`ll give you "The Tonight Show," then, they don`t want to lose Leno. So, they put him on at 10:00.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
DANA: There`s actually an extremely boring answer for this. This begin with --
LEVY: Oh, good.
DANA: This began with actually a reasonable --
LEVY: it involves principally.
(LAUGHTER)
DANA: This whole thing began with arguably a reasonable gamble on the part of NBC executives because they didn`t want a repeat of what happened when David Letterman left the network so many years before that and started a fairly successful franchise for CBS. So, they made a bet that Jay would be sucking by the time -- so they could lock Conan into his contract. And then, they totally lost it, and then, they fumbled everything after that.
LEVY: And they`re like dudes who don`t want to break up with a girl, but they want to go out with somebody else, so they`re trying to go out with both of them at the same time. It never works.
FUGELSANG: Can we just agree to thank God that`s finally it`s going to be safe for white men on late night TV?
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: I mean, you know, because when Lopez took over, I thought Lou Dobbs was going to have a heart attack. They`re taking over.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, he did have a heart attack. He did.
FUGELSANG: Kind of funny. Lou Dobbs had to sneak into Mexico for broadcasting work. That`d be worth it.
BEHAR: (INAUDIBLE) Lou Dobbs.
DANA: He`s on some other network now.
BEHAR: Yes, I know, on Fox probably.
DANA: Yes, Fox Business. No one has ever watched that network (ph).
FUGELSANG: This is like two really rich famous powerful guys that got totally humiliated like. It`s like an S&M club for celebrities.
BEHAR: OK. Here`s the coder (ph) of that. Jeb Zooker (ph) is no longer working there.
DANA: Ben Silverman, one of the people behind the scenes.
BEHAR: And what`s his name, Letterman, I mean "Nightline" is beating everybody. Just saying.
DANA: That`s nice. That`s a nice silver lining.
BEHAR: It is. OK. One more story here. Fondling a stranger on a subway is still illegal but doing it at an airport is now the law of the land, but some Americans had enough of the scanners and TSA pat downs and one passenger created a scene and a catch phrase. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you would like a private screening, we can make that available for you also.
JOHN TYNER, MAN REFUSED PAT DOWN: We can do that out here, but if you touch my junk, I`m going to have you arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Actually, we are going to have a supervisor here because of your statement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. Was this the greatest sex scandal of the year?
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: This was the greatest sex scandal of the year? Really?
BEHAR: Well, the quantity. Think of the quantity.
LEVY: You mean all the touching at the TSA.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: I don`t really understand the whole -- I`ve lived my entire life with a simple philosophy which is, touch my junk.
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: Touch my junk. Please, touch my junk. I`ve gone through my entire life that way. It`s intermittently worked out fine for a couple minutes at a time.
BEHAR: John, pat down or scanner? What are you?
FUGELSANG: I know. Used to be aisle or window. Now, it`s radiation or groping. I mean, for me, the pat down is the closest I`ll ever get to joining the mile high club, so I like that aspect. Really, can men stop calling it their junk please? I mean, can we have a little self-respect as a nation? If you call it your junk, no one is ever going to want to take it out for you. So, don`t do that.
LEVY: Don`t touch my treasure.
FUGELSANG: Thank you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Jewels a lot of --
LEVY: The difference between junk and jewels, and I`ll show you later.
BEHAR: In other words, schmuck in German means jewel, did you know that? OK. I`m just saying that.
DANA: Does it really?
BEHAR: Yes. I know my German.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: This is just (INAUDIBLE) the illusion of -- in the airport. This patting down begins nine years later.
DANA: This is a problem. Somebody puts a bomb in his underpants, and so, now, we all have to be groped. Somebody puts a bomb in his shoes
BEHAR: I know.
DANA: All of that is ridiculous. It does nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: Apparently, can`t take lip gloss on a flight. It`s insane.
BEHAR: I know.
DANA: And nothing gets John angrier than when women can`t bring lip gloss on an airplane.
FUGELSANG: Well, because it`s all a flop by the sunny water (ph), in my opinion. That`s all they sell in the airports anymore.
BEHAR: Is that true? You can`t bring -- what about a suppository? It looks like lip gloss.
FUGELSANG: Exactly. You can`t bring that on either.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You can hide that, but you can put the lip gloss in the same spot.
FUGELSANG: I guess you can.
BEHAR: What about national opt out day. That didn`t even work. Nobody cared about it.
FUGELSANG: It`s fun. You know what, if they`re going to feel you up, go ahead and enjoy it. You know, half way through it, I always say pay it forward, you know? Let them know you care.
BEHAR: But the fact is that the pat downs you see your breast and your genital areas, OK?
FUGELSANG: On the x-ray.
LEVY: You mean in the scanner.
BEHAR: The scanner. Not the pat down.
LEVY: They can see it. They don`t always see it. They have several settings. I`ve really looked into this because I`m trying to get a device, a hand held, I can take with me to the street.
FUGELSANG: So is Brett Favre.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But aren`t these people a little ego maniacal thinking that everyone wants to see their parts on the scanner? Who cares?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: If you`re a celebrity it might, be but everybody else?
FUGELSANG: They found in Florida that there were 10,000 naked photos on file. So, it is an issue of privacy. And you know, really, it comes right down to like, you know, if I want to have radiation in my body, I`ll eat the food on the plane.
BEHAR: Exactly. Go right to the source. OK. Remember that JetBlue flight attendant, Steven Slater, who quit his job by sliding down the emergency chute? He`s on the phone right now. Hey, Steven.
STEVE SLATER, FORMER JETBLUE ATTENDANT: Good afternoon.
BEHAR: How are you? You`re one of the biggest newsmakers of 2010 believe it or not. How are you doing since your meltdown?
SLATER: I`m a lot better now, thank you. I`ve come out from under that dreadful job.
BEHAR: Any medication we`re talking about here or just?
SLATER: I`m a firm believer in better living through chemistry, yes. Absolutely.
BEHAR: Do you regret at all what happened or do you just shout it from the roof tops and say I`m fabulous?
SLATER: You know, everything happens for a reason, and I`m in a much happier and healthier place. And it took 20 years to get to that point, but apparently, it`s what was supposed to happen.
BEHAR: See, I believe that nothing happens for a reason, but that`s interesting, the philosophy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What are you doing now, Steven?
SLATER: I`m just, you know, I`m having fun. I`m out here in California with my mom for the holidays and seeing her through a kind of challenging time. She has lung cancer and liver cancer.
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
SLATER: Spend the holidays here. You know, plugging my new endorsement deal with line, too. We`re having lots of fun with that. Working on the book. And, you know, a lot more fun now, you know? I`m just kind of -- we`re just kind of having fun with the whole thing. I see the humor and the whole thing and I`m laughing at myself a lot.
BEHAR: That`s so great. We congratulate you on the successful time you`re having right now. Have a very Happy New Year.
SLATER: And same to you, Joy.
BEHAR: OK. OK. Back with my year-end panel. They`re staying for more of this after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. 2010 was a busy year in politics. The tea party and Sarah Palin rose to prominence. Sarah even got her own reality show where she introduces you to some of Alaska`s beautiful wildlife, and then, she shoots it.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Here we go. Rebecca, will 2010 be remembered as the year of the tea party? Do you think?
DANA: God, I hope not. I mean, these people made a lot of noise, but what have they actually done? I think only a third of them and certainly the least fringe third actually got into public office. So, they`re quite loud, but --
BEHAR: I know. They really didn`t do that well. I mean, about two- thirds of tea party actually lost their races in the House.
DANA: Right.
BEHAR: So, maybe the crazies are too crazy for some of the people out there.
DANA: Yes, I think it was like we saw a lot of 15 minutes, and hopefully, it`ll never be heard from again apart from a reality show or maybe they`ll all be put in a house together and we can see them like that.
BEHAR: That would be so great, wouldn`t it? Sharron Angle with a bunch of Hispanics?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Mi casa su casa. What about Sarah Palin? Do you think she`s the face of the tea party. Is she responsible for its popularity?
LEVY: I don`t think she`s responsible for its popularity.
BEHAR: No.
LEVY: I honestly think we can`t underestimate these people and their rage, their white rage, their anger over the situation we find ourselves in economically and their ability to pin it on a lack man in the White House. And I really don`t think we should underestimate Sarah Palin who`s scary. She`s terrifying.
BEHAR: Well, she could become president in 2012.
LEVY: And she is successfully blurred -- well, I`m not sure about that.
BEHAR: It`s the year of the apocalypse. I read that.
FUGELSANG: They were (ph) really warning us about the movie "2012" not the actual year.
BEHAR: OK.
LEVY: But I think the reaction from every smart left leaning person I know about Sarah Palin is she won`t become president in 2012. Flash back to the Reagan election. Every smart person, left leaning person, when Reagan was elected was like you know what? He`s nothing but an actor. He doesn`t really know anything. And boom. We got eight years of him, and we`re still paying for it.
BEHAR: That`s right.
FUGELSANG: Reagan was much more popular within his own party and had much higher polling numbers beforehand. I think Sarah Palin is sort of like the Flavor Flav of the Republican Party, you know? She`s definitely entertaining but kind of embarrassing to the movement. And since I think we all agree on this whole issue, I do want to be fair to the tea party and say that it really began as genuine conservativism.
You know, Bush and the White House, they weren`t conservative. These guys spent money like Lindsay Lohan in Amsterdam, right?
BEHAR: That`s right.
FUGELSANG: This started because of the Rand Paul guys and the Ron Paul guys back together and wanted to take the party back to its values. Then, it got taken over by the nut jobs drawing their pictures of the Hitler mustache in Obama. Somewhere in hell, Hitler is really mad about his mustache on a black guy. He`ll tell the tea partiers when he sees them.
BEHAR: You know, I just read somewhere that Hitler probably was part Jewish. I`d never know that.
DANA: Oh, yes. He had like a distant Jewish relative.
BEHAR: Right. Right. Self-hating.
DANA: Yes.
BEHAR: They made very controversial statements these tea party people. Sharron Angle told Hispanic students they looked Asian. Remember that? Carl Paladino said homosexuality isn`t a viable option. Well, who`s going to go for him?
LEVY: Not viable for him.
BEHAR: And O`Donnell. Remember her, Christine O`Donnell? She questioned the separation of church and state. She also put this ad out. Let`s look at it again.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTINE O`DONNELL, POLITICIAN: I`m not a witch. I`m nothing you`ve heard. I`m you.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How about that?
DANA: She is me. She`s exactly like me.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Even the hair is the same.
DANA: I know. We`re the same person. Oh, my God.
FUGELSANG: Christine also dabbled. She said she dabbled in Buddhism, but they didn`t want her because they thought she was too empty, but here`s the thing.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: You know, Carl Paladino, he was great. He made me (ph) ashamed to be a racist adulterer who sends this (INAUDIBLE) e-mails. But the thing about the tea party is the rage is real. It`s misdirected. You know, these people have been convinced by Fox News that they need to fight for the rich 2 percent to get a tax cut because that`s all they accomplished.
It was giving the rich its 2 percent back their tax cut, and it`s a lot of misdirected rage. It`s going to be curious to see where they go now because they`ve already begun to eat their own. Scott Brown will be the first one that they eat. And we`ll see if they actually --
LEVY: You mean actually? Are we talking --
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: I mean they will cannibalize.
(CROSSTALK)
FUGELSANG: Kenny Rogers Roasters have a Scott Brown sandwich.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: And they`re going to do it.
DANA: I think the problem is, I think, John is maybe giving the tea party just a little bit too much credit for its origin.
LEVY: First off, first off, I just want to go back to calling them tea baggers.
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: It`s referencing a sexual act. It`s actually kind of fabulous. I think we should go back. Let`s not give them the respect of calling them tea partiers.
FUGELSANG: They get very offended by that because tea bagging is an activity engaged in by gay men or straight men with spectacular women.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: My dad never knew the difference. These tea baggers get testy, I`ll tell you.
(LAUGHTER)
FUGELSANG: They want to tea bag Obama because his package was too big. I`m like, dad, it`s kind of hard to swallow.
BEHAR: The other thing is that the GOP won -- I know. That`s funny. I have to move on.
FUGELSANG: Right. I wish you would.
BEHAR: The GOP won big last year, I mean, in the midterms. What do you think of that? Obama called it a shellacking. Is that a good word to use, do you think, a "shellacking?"
LEVY: It`s OK. What`s the fuss over using the word "shellacking?"
BEHAR: I think he would say they were pummeled is more than --
LEVY: Oh, OK. He should have said pummeled. That would have been much more dignified.
BEHAR: But before we go, I only have a minute more in the segment that`s why I`m rushing, but I must show you this again. Let`s look at Boehner as the podium (ph) on election. The greatest. Let`s watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JOHN BOEHNER, (R) HOUSE MINORITY LEADER: I started out mopping floors, waiting tables, and tending bar in my dad`s tavern. I put my -- myself through school working every rotten job there was and every night shift I could find. And I poured my heart and soul into running a small business.
(CLAPPING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Poor me. Poor me. As if he`s the only one who ever had an American dream. Whatever happened to man up?
LEVY: Right.
DANA: All the republican women --
BEHAR: That`s right.
DANA: Sharron Angle would like to kill all the immigrants. But all the Republican men are sobbing.
BEHAR: Why are they so --
DANA: I wish they knew. Maybe he seared his tear ducts.
BEHAR: OK. We have more to talk about in one more segment. So, stay tuned. We`ll be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel discussing the year-end politics. Some liberals went after the president this year for too much compromising with the GOP. Rebecca, did Obama cater to the right too much? I mean, he got the tax deal. You know, that`s the latest thing he had to succumb to. Extending the Bush tax cuts.
DANA: People are complaining now that Obama has moved to the right or moved to the center. I don`t see any evidence that he was ever any further to the left. I mean, he started his administration and has been nothing but a series of disappointments, I think, for people on the far left.
BEHAR: Well, he got a hard time from the left I think, didn`t he Joe?
LEVY: He`s got a very hard time for the left and let`s figure, what has he actually done? He passed health care which Clinton couldn`t pass.
BEHAR: Right.
LEVY: He passed gays in the military, did away with "don`t ask, don`t tell" which Clinton couldn`t do.
BEHAR: Right.
LEVY: So, I mean --
BEHAR: Financial regulation reform.
LEVY: Financial regulation reform.
FUGELSANG: These are improvements more than reform, though. Let`s point that out.
LEVY: And health care could be better, but we had --
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: It`s hardly an Obama triumph.
LEVY: I`m not calling it a triumph, but he got it done. I mean, he got something done.
BEHAR: There`s something about the way he does it that`s not sneaky, but like under the radar, and then, he kind of pulls it off, you know? It`s fascinating.
FUGELSANG: It`s a bit early still. I mean, the outrage against him is so crazy especially against health care because Republicans should have been the one leading that fight, you know? If you don`t want to help save American lives, you`re not a patriot. If you`re afraid of capitalism from a public option, you`re not a capitalist. And if you don`t help the sick, you`re not a Christian.
Republicans should have been leading that fight instead of fighting this guy. So, I give him a lot of credit. The left is very angry at him, but, you know, Rebecca is exactly right. He was always a moderate. And he never really claimed to be anything but. I mean, I get mad at him and then he gives a speech and I`m like, damn, (INAUDIBLE) grew up all right. He always listen down.
BEHAR: But you know, you make the point of all the things that he accomplished. Bush invaded a country that didn`t have any weapons, broke the economy, he raised the deficit, choked on a pretzel and finally finished my pet goat. Those are his accomplishments.
DANA: I think part of the problem here which Obama himself identified is a communication problem. For a guy who was such a great campaigner and gave these wonderful, inspirational speeches during the campaign, he`s been remarkably sort of ham fisted and tone deaf in how he communicated with people.
BEHAR: I know, but again, he gave (ph) a lot anyway.
DANA: Well, that`s fine.
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: Do you remember before the midterm elections when he was sort of like haranguing (ph) his base about coming out and voting for him? I think that sort of thing rings really false with people who supported him in the general.
LEVY: And people supported him in the general election because they wanted a change because they were tired of Bush, because they were tired of where the economy was and tired of the war.
DANA: Right.
LEVY: The economy only got worse. The war is still going on. But here`s the thing. Obama is a leftist if you`re on the right and a complete disappointment if you`re on the left. So, what choice does he have? He has to go to the center.
BEHAR: But I like the moderates really about in this country, anyway.
FUGELSANG: Well, eventually, yes. I think the economy has actually gotten better. We were losing 700,000 jobs a month when this guy took over. So, blaming this guy for the economy is like blaming the guy making your breakfast for your hangover. You know, it`s like he has, his policies have worked.
He needs to fire Geithner and all these other stuff we know of. This new tax compromise? Yes, it`s good and bad. It`ll save Christmas for millions of money and where is the money -- there`s no money to pay for any of these new things.
BEHAR: What about the time that Clinton was at the podium the other day? I loved that when he let Clinton start blabbing it up. Did that make Obama look bad, do you think?
FUGELSANG: Or weak?
BEHAR: Or weak, yes.
FUGELSANG: Well, because Clinton is the most popular Democrat in the world. I mean, right now, he brought those two girls home from Korea. Only Bill Clinton could get cheered for bringing two Asian girls home with him.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yo. OK. Thank you guys very much. And thank you all for watching. Wasn`t this fun? I loved it.
FUGELSANG: Thank you, Joy.
DANA: I had so much fun.
BEHAR: Goodnight everybody.
END
