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Joy Behar Page
Rep. Giffords` Recovery; Loughner`s Past Revealed
Aired January 13, 2011 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: There is something for everyone in Las Vegas this week. There`s Miss America for the grownups, Cirque du Soleil for the kids and the porn convention for Charlie Sheen. What is not to like?
I`ll be back later on the show for a one-on-one interview with Brad Garrett, who is hilarious. But sitting in for me now is Howard Stern`s other half, Robin Quivers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, as Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords begins her road to recovery days after being shot in the head, the portrait of a killer emerges. Alleged shooter, Jared Lee Loughner smirks from jail while friends and family describe a violent, extremely disturbed individual. So, were the warning signs missed?
Then Kelsey Grammer`s contentious divorce takes a strange turn after his soon-to-be ex-wife implied that the Frazier likes to dress in drag.
Plus from "Everybody Loves Raymond" to Sin City, comedian, actor and gentle giant Brad Garrett chats with Joy from Vegas.
That and more starting right now.
ROBIN QUIVERS, HLN GUEST HOST: Hi. I`m Robin Quivers. Joy will be back a little later in the show but tonight let`s start with good news out of Tucson, Arizona. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords opened her eyes on her own for the first time last night and that`s a big step in her recovery after being shot in the head by suspect Jared Lee Loughner. Meanwhile, we`re learning a lot more about Loughner and his past and much of it is pretty disturbing.
Here with me now to talk about it are our guests: Casey Jordan, a criminologist; Dr. Gail Saltz, a psychiatrist and clinical associate professor of psychiatry at the New York Presbyterian Hospital; and Shushannah Walshe a senior reporter for "The Daily Beast".
Dr. Saltz, let`s start with the good news about Giffords. She opened her eyes for the first time. Is that a great thing and what does it mean about what we can expect for her recovery?
DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIST: Well, it`s certainly a good sign in terms of showing awareness and you would expect at about this period, you know, brain swelling is starting to diminish so the fact that she is making movement, she`s opening her eyes, those are good things. But it really doesn`t tell us what exactly is going to happen in the future.
There is still a broad range of possibilities because, in fact, the speech center is in the left hemisphere of the brain. The frontal lobe where the bullet entered controls issues like personality, impulse control; motor skills may have been affected. So there are a lot of things that are unknown. The question is it`ll still be a long haul in terms of rehab and what she will be able to get back.
QUIVERS: So while it`s good we can`t really tell anything yet.
SALTZ: It is certainly the best you could hope for at this point but really with these kinds of injuries, it`s a long period of time before you know really what the ultimate outcome will be.
QUIVERS: And what about the fact that she has been through such a traumatic experience? Do you expect she`ll have to get some therapy?
SALTZ: You know, it`s interesting but people who have had terrible head trauma often have complete amnesia for the event that caused the trauma in the first place. In fact, they may even have something called anterior grade amnesia (ph) where they forget even before. She may have no recollection of even arriving at the area that she was in.
So as to the trauma of being in the event, it`s unclear. But, certainly, the trauma of the tremendous losses that no matter how well this goes she will have suffered, that is going to be very difficult and so it`ll be frustrating. There will be a lot of grieving over what has been lost in terms of career and identity and, you know, skills that she may have to completely rebuild. So I think, you know, one would expect it might be helpful to certainly be able to talk to somebody in this kind of instance.
QUIVERS: Ok. Not just about the trauma but everything that happens to you as you recover.
SALTZ: This whole event and the future has a lot of trauma loaded into it.
QUIVERS: Let`s turn our sights to Loughner now. We`re learning that he had a shrine in his back yard. Let`s take a look.
Casey, what does that tell you?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Well, it`s interesting because I`m not even sure the parents were aware it was back there. I know that a photographer with a long-angled lens actually jumped over the back fence and took a picture before he got chased off by Jared`s father.
QUIVERS: But it was in a camouflage tent-like thing in the back.
JORDAN: Correct. And to be honest I think it is really emblematic of magical thinking that has been also revealed in his YouTube videos, his conversations with friends, his doodling on math exams. There is not one specific occult that it seems to be allied with.
It simply is -- it`s not a real skull by the way, it`s just a little fake plastic skull. It`s sitting in a bucket of dried up oranges and then there`s a whole bunch of candles around. It really just seems to indicate that he was mentally disturbed and that he created this as part of his magical, fantastical thinking.
QUIVERS: A woman who says she dated him spoke with CBS`s "Early Show". Let`s take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELSEY HAWKES, JARED LEE LOUGHNER`S EX-GIRLFRIEND: Six years ago we dated and back then he was completely different as a person, very caring, very sweet, gentle, kind; you know, a little bit quiet, but all together a pretty great guy.
The Jared that I used to know is completely changed from what the world sees him now as. I would never, have ever expected him to become what he has.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIVERS: Dr. Saltz, does that happen a lot? I mean a good, happy-go- lucky guy and all of a sudden a traumatic experience and then he changes into a completely different person?
SALTZ: Well, there are a couple issues. First of all, many of the psychotic illnesses that develop do so in the late teens and early 20s. So somebody can seem to be functioning and seem to be fine and ultimately evolve into this.
Sometimes people don`t see the very earliest signs because frankly someone is keeping it to themselves. They`re guarding and they`re not going to let you know that they`re having some strange thoughts and they can still function pretty well.
In terms of the trauma of a breakup actually in adolescence that is a big trauma and it is certainly true that if you are starting to have evolving mental illness a big trauma can certainly step up the process of what`s going on. But I think moreover sometimes when something traumatic happens to adolescents, adolescents do turn to drugs and alcohol. And that can really increase what`s going on in terms of any mental illness that might be evolving.
QUIVERS: Casey, Hawkes says that her breaking up was what started his descent into whatever this is now. Is that how this usually is, that some catalyst happens?
JORDAN: It can be.
Very often there is a trigger or catalyst, sometimes it`s an anniversary. But I agree with Gail. It`s far more of a trajectory, there are so many variables that are involved and not one of them by itself, including the breakup with a girlfriend could account for what happened.
It`s very likely that as he got into his early 20s if he has, perhaps, some schizo-typical issues, he definitely was paranoid. We know he was isolated, the entire family was isolated. You can take all of these variables and it`s almost like the tumblers of a lock all kind of fitting together all at once and there will be some theater, some outlet, some leakage.
It could have been, in my estimation, the community college. But they handled it. They managed it. They actually made sure that he was kicked out of the college until he got mental help which as far as I can tell the most they could do. And so the theater took on a new stage and, you know, Gail and I were chatting about this --
SALTZ: I think the problem is what -- clearly there were people in high school who saw that something was going on and so what I think is sad and missing here is that people around him who saw there was something, whether it was their discomfort because of the stigma and shame that still surrounds mental illness and so it`s difficult to say, actually I think something is up. Something`s wrong. I`d love you to see someone. I think we need to bring you in.
A teacher saying so, a guidance counselor, a friend going to the parents -- this is what didn`t happen. And this is what the problem is.
QUIVERS: I think a lot of people now are saying, ok, everybody saw these things.
SALTZ: Right.
QUIVERS: Why didn`t somebody do something?
SALTZ: I think that stigma and shame surrounding mental illness is a big reason that people don`t do something. It`s not like saying, you know, I think you might have diabetes so let`s go see the doctor. And it should be because this is an illness. But because of the shame associated people don`t feel comfortable doing that and also because of the shame associated many people are not educated about the topic. They have no idea that these were red flags, and we don`t have enough services.
In Arizona, for instance, there really is a lacking of service, mental health services so that for somebody who can`t just afford to walk in and do private pay to be able to go see someone is not the easiest of things to do.
QUIVERS: But how can so many people like from the community college he went to be saying I was afraid to turn my back. I had this paranoid feeling that he might bring a gun.
SALTZ: Right.
QUIVERS: And still there is nothing we can do?
JORDAN: There`s nothing we can do. I`m so glad you brought that up because I agree with you that there is a lot you can do for advocacy. You can push them. You can take them to the door, but making people who are mentally ill -- really the support is what they need more than anything.
I mean, I teach at a university. We have plenty of mentally ill students and I`ve had problems with them. There is so little we can do because in the United States, you love your freedom. And you`ve got HIPAA and you`ve got privacy rights, and it`s almost impossible to civilly commit somebody if they haven`t actually harmed themselves or others.
QUIVERS: Shushannah, we`ve heard a lot about this online stuff that he was doing. What can you tell us about that?
SHUSHANNAH WALSHE, "THE DAILY BEAST": Well, the online YouTube videos you can see him rambling. It`s unclear what, in many states, in many of these -- what he was even talking about. I think they`re signs that he is extremely mentally disturbed.
Our reporter in Arizona, Eve Conant had an interview with one of the marshals. He is in federal marshal custody and he said he just looks, he is in a very small cell and he just looks straight ahead with a smirk on his face close to the smirk that we`ve seen now all over in that picture, in that mug shot. And the marshal described it as a paranoid headlights type of look.
And as we know he`s not -- and as reported in this piece -- he hasn`t been speaking with authorities, so he just answers as Eve reported in yes and no answers. And so the authorities and investigators are not getting a ton of information that we can see right now out of him.
You know, as this investigation goes on, which will go on for a very long time, I mean he is the one that they need to get this information out of. If he -- if this mental --
SALTZ: Unfortunately, I mean, the question is, is somebody doing a psychiatric evaluation?
(CROSSTALK)
SALTZ: And really, a smirk is somebody`s description but you have no idea what`s going on in the mind of somebody who is simply quiet, who could be having auditory hallucinations. We just don`t know. We just don`t know.
QUIVERS: I thought, you know, it almost seemed like he was planning to commit suicide after this whole thing was up and maybe he didn`t even have a game plan for surviving this.
WALSHE: The symptoms that we`ve seen, and I just described, I mean, what investigators in the psychiatric examination, what is going to happen, what is the next step for that? What are they going to look into?
SALTZ: You would hope that they would do a thorough history, that they would look at the family history, because often things do run in families. And they would question the evolution of what`s gone on and they would do specific questioning to understand, are these paranoid delusions? Is somebody hearing voices? Do they have suicidal thoughts?
You put that entire collection together. That is how you make a diagnosis. Then the question is what should the treatment plan be?
QUIVERS: Something I wonder is what is going on in his family right now. What his parents are dealing with. But we`ll have to get to that some other time. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Joy sits down with actor and comedian Brad Garrett. Now back to Joy`s guest host, Robin Quivers.
QUIVERS: Kelsey Grammer`s soon-to-be ex-wife Camille Grammer stopped by the "Howard Stern Show" yesterday and surprised us all by implying that Kelsey liked to cross dress. Listen.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
CAMILLE GRAMMER, KELSEY GRAMMER`S EX-WIFE: Listen, I don`t think he`s gay. I do think he likes being with women, but there is something between us that just didn`t click.
HOWARD STERN, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: But you`re saying you do think he`s gay. You said when he got into "La Cage aux Folles" he was in the right play.
GRAMMER: That`s for another reason.
STERN: What`s the other reason?
QUIVERS: He likes to dress up like a woman?
GRAMMER: I`m just saying. I`m not talking about it.
STERN: Are you saying in your marriage that Kelsey dressed up like a woman?
GRAMMER: I`m not saying it.
STERN: No kidding.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
QUIVERS: With me now to talk about this and other entertainment stories in the news are Sandra Bernhard, comedian, singer, and actress; Joe Levy editor-in-chief of "Maxim" and comedian Sommore.
Sandra, Camille didn`t exactly say that he was a cross dresser. She implied it but then she took it back. What is this? Is this just --
SANDRA BERNHARD, COMEDIAN: I don`t know if that deal with Victoria`s Secret was revealed because I know he was doing some sort of --
QUIVERS: Was he one of the angels?
BERNHARD: Yes. He was one of the angels. I don`t know why she was being so coy about it. He looked amazing in that super push-up, you know, boobs up to here bra.
QUIVERS: Is that the wonder bra?
BERNHARD: You have to wonder. The whole thing is a wonder.
QUIVERS: I wonder what`s going on with Kelsey bra.
(CROSSTALK)
BERNHARD: What the hell is going on with her? I mean why do these people need to go out and reveal their dirty laundry and then they don`t even fully reveal it?
QUIVERS: Well, could it be a negotiation tactic, like I will talk if you`re not forthcoming?
SOMMORE: What more does she want?
JOE LEVY, "MAXIM" MAGAZINE: Isn`t she getting -- is she entitled to community property. They had no pre-nup. They`re going through divorce; she is entitled to half of $100 million.
QUIVERS: They said in the paper that she was offered $30 million and she wants more.
LEVY: Ok. She wants more.
BERNHARD: When you`re a woman of her means, basically raised like a Rockefeller, when you`ve been used to all the perks in life of course you want more. She is a classy dame, Robin.
SOMMORE, COMEDIAN: Have you been watching "The Housewives of Beverly Hills"?
BERNHARD: No, I`m not watching "The House of Beverly Hills", honey, no.
(CROSSTALK)
QUIVERS: I love this. Let me tell you, the best thing about watching couples separate is when the dirty -- the dirt gets to flying. I love that. But don`t you hate it? I hate when people break up and then --
BERNHARD: And it`s amicable.
QUIVERS: She is still a nice person? Uh-huh. I want to hear the dirt. I want to hear about all the little dirty secrets. I want to hear it.
LEVY: In this case the dirty laundry apparently includes some ladies` lingerie. But it`s --
(CROSSTALK)
BERNHARD: I love Kelsey in a crotch-less panty. It`s really fresh.
QUIVERS: Let me picture that. Maybe not.
BERNHARD: We have enough negative images in our mind right now. Kelsey Grammer in lace panties? Personally it might put me right over the edge.
QUIVERS: Joe, is "La Cage Aux Folles" the right place for him to be? That is what he is doing on Broadway now.
LEVY: Yes. Apparently. I mean, you know. Listen, I don`t know what the big deal is. If this is something he likes to do and he`s found a Broadway outlet where he can get paid to do it, great. Good for him.
If it`s something he likes to do in the privacy of his bedroom I don`t see what the big deal is. He wore some ladies clothing.
QUIVERS: The thing I thought was odd, Sommore, was that she also revealed there wasn`t much sex in the marriage.
SOMMORE: Right.
LEVY: Well, not with her apparently.
SOMMORE: She was real bad on the show. But I mean, you got to know your man. I think it all starts with lip balm. If he goes like this, if he does this way or he does this way, you know, that`s too much for me.
QUIVERS: You know what`s going on.
LEVY: This is applying lip balm with your hand and then to the mouth is too metro-sexual? What?
SOMMORE: This is good.
LEVY: Oh, that`s good.
SOMMORE: This is not.
LEVY: Oh. I have a problem. People, I have a problem.
(CROSSTALK)
QUIVERS: I didn`t even need to know. I should be looking at that.
SOMMORE: This is just my rule.
LEVY: I did not know. I have a problem.
SOMMORE: This is good. This is not.
LEVY: Ok. Hold on.
SOMMORE: Then the little Halloween costumes when they want to put on, dress up like women. That`s just reading all down the line.
LEVY: Let me get this straight. I`m supposed to -- all right. This and then this?
SOMMORE: Yes. That`s good.
LEVY: That`s good.
SOMMORE: Yes.
BERNHARD: I just love that you brought the cranberry flavor there.
LEVY: Well, all my secrets are out now.
QUIVERS: Ok.
LEVY: Just a little metro right there.
BERNHARD: A little tip.
QUIVERS: Let`s move on.
LEVY: Very capable.
(CROSSTALK)
QUIVERS: All right. Hard partying Charlie Sheen was in Vegas all weekend partying of course.
BERNHARD: No, Charlie in Vegas?
QUIVERS: With a lot of fun girls and then he failed to make it to the set of "Two and a Half Men" yesterday. His reps are saying that it was an ear infection. Is that what we`re calling a hangover?
LEVY: You know, after Las Vegas during the adult video news convention which is a porn star convention, it`s not actually your nose that gets infected. That`s not your nose, people. It sticks out but it`s not your nose.
SOMMORE: Well, penicillin is penicillin.
LEVY: Ok.
BERNHARD: Well, now, the one thing they could always say about Charlie was he made it to work.
SOMMORE: That`s what I say, yes.
BERNHARD: One thing you can say about Charlie is he did it his way. What more can we say about Charlie Sheen? The whole thing has gone nuts.
SOMMORE: He is grown. And he is making it to work.
QUIVERS: But is this -- you know, is this a cry for help? Is this Charlie Sheen who now needs an intervention, Joe?
I mean should somebody talking --
LEVY: Now needs? This is suddenly we`ve discovered that now he needs an intervention? Because being discovered like raving and yelling at people naked in a hotel suite having demolished it looking for his watch wasn`t a sign that he needed intervention? But this, missing work, that`s a sign that he needs an intervention.
BERNHARD: He says it`s not enough, Joe. It`s just not enough. You`ve got to take it one more step.
QUIVERS: Heidi Fleiss is on your side. She says let him party all he wants. He gets the job done.
LEVY: No less an authority about drugs and prostitution than Heidi Fleiss.
QUIVERS: Sit tight. We have more pop culture on the way.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
QUIVERS: I`m Robin Quivers filling in for Joy and I`m back with today`s pop culture panel.
It`s probably safe to say that Oprah doesn`t handle failure well. In an outtake from "PIERS MORGAN TONIGHT" Oprah says that when her movie "Beloved" tanked at the box office she drowned her sorrows in her favorite comfort food. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
OPRAH WINFREY, TALK SHOW HOST: It sent me into a massive, depressive macaroni and cheese eating tail spin. I asked my chef at the time, make some macaroni and cheese. And I really literally went into a tail spin about it.
PIERS MORGAN, CNN HOST: How much macaroni did you eat?
WINFREY: Oh, I ate about 30 pounds.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIVERS: Sommore, 30 pounds of mac and cheese.
SOMMORE: All because her movie didn`t sell well?
QUIVERS: Yes. I hope this cable channel takes off.
(CROSSTALK)
SOMMORE: My thing is she has enough money she could have bought the tickets to make the movie go.
QUIVERS: Oh, come on. You know how you all need love. She couldn`t do it. She had to have the people come out for her. Does this Sandra make you think, well, Oprah is human like the rest of us?
BERNHARD: I respond totally differently. When things don`t go my way I just shut down and I can`t eat. I`ve never been anorexic but I can`t relate to that. I`d love to sit down with a bowl of mac and cheese if I was --
QUIVERS: I don`t know how she knew it was 30 pounds. Was she ordering it by the pound?
BERNHARD: Well, I don`t know. Maybe she put on 30 pounds.
SOMMORE: Maybe she gained 30 pounds. Yes. Like a child that played depressed, so I won`t eat. But it didn`t work.
BERNHARD: I heard your banana pudding is incredible. I`m waiting for that.
SOMMORE: Yes.
QUIVERS: Well, "The Bride of Chuckie" was the movie that beat her.
LEVY: "Bride of Chuckie" opened at number one and "Beloved" opened at number two and she told apparently told Piers "I didn`t even know who Chuckie was. Chuckie who?"
QUIVERS: You`re kidding.
BERNHARD: Oh, my goodness.
LEVY: But here is the thing. Remember --
QUIVERS: But it wasn`t even the original Chuckie, which was a pretty good movie, it was "The Bride of Chuckie".
LEVY: I love it.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: God bless you. Here is the thing. This is 1998. Oprah, remember at this time, this is when she was on the cover of "Vogue" and Anna Wintour told her she had to lose 20 pounds to be on the cover of "Vogue" so I think she was just hungry.
QUIVERS: Well, it could have been.
BERNHARD: I think she needs to sit down with Anna Winter and get Anna Winter to eat some mac and cheese.
QUIVERS: Yes, well Anna Winter could have really helped her out.
SOMMORE: That -- yes, that could be.
QUIVERS: Finally of course "The Jersey Shore" -- we have to talk about "The Jersey Shore". This week Snooki had another bad night.
BERNHARD: Do we have to?
QUIVERS: It`s a shocker but take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JENNI "JWOWW", "THE JERSEY SHORE": Having a good time and all of a sudden, Nicole, she takes off.
What are you doing in the bush?
SNOOKI, "THE JERSEY SHORE": I`m hiding.
Honestly, like who hides in a bush? Only me. I will pee in a bush, I will poop in a bush, and I will hide in a bush. I do (EXPLETIVE DELETED). I don`t even know what is wrong with me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
QUIVERS: Joe, she told Ellen a couple of weeks ago that she winds up in a garbage can once a month so obviously this is not that shocking.
LEVY: I -- I`m shocked. She will pee and poop in a bush.
BERNHARD: Robin, could we get those twin lesbian hookers out here to class up the show a little bit? This is starting to freak me out.
QUIVERS: Well, you know, that "The Jersey Shore" premiered for a third season and eight million viewers tuned in. That is a record for MTV.
SOMMORE: I am one of them. I love the show.
BERNHARD: Are we encouraging this kind of behavior with increased viewership every time?
SOMMORE: Well, it`s on. It`s on, so I guess that`s all that needs to be said.
BERNHARD: Ok. Are we mocking people? Is that all that`s left?
QUIVERS: If you`re in New York catch Sommore at Caroline`s this weekend and Sandra Bernhard is performing in Miami at the Adrian Art Center for Performing Arts (ph) on January 28th and 29th.
Joy sits down with Brad Garrett, next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The very funny Brad Garrett is best known for playing the long suffering older brother of Ray Romano in the hit sitcom "Everybody Loves Raymond." Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Merry Christmas!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Merry Christmas!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey. Nice. We usually hang ours on the door.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I walked in on my parents once, and I`m still in therapy for that. But after a long run on TV, brad has fulfilled his long-time dream of owning his own comedy club. Brad Garrett`s Comedy Club at the Tropicana Hotel in Las Vegas opened last year. Joining me now at Planet Hollywood is the always funny, very funny, Brad Garrett.
BRAD GARRETT, COMEDIAN: So sweet of you.
BEHAR: Well, you are. You`re very funny.
GARRETT: Excuse me one second. I would like to split these aces. And please get her a rum runner. Thank you.
BEHAR: So, you were saying you miss the mob in Vegas?
GARRETT: I miss the mob.
BEHAR: Yes. Why? What do you miss?
GARRETT: Well, it`s just, you know, problems, they go away so much easier, you know?
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: Now you call an Asian guy you never met with a lisp. And it`s hard to get things done, unless, you want pudding. You know, I started this town in 1984 before you were born, actually.
BEHAR: Yes, right.
GARRETT: But it`s a lot of fun. And we`re having a great time.
BEHAR: Well, it`s different now.
GARRETT: And I`m stealing my ass off at this hotel.
BEHAR: What are you stealing?
GARRETT: Towels, condiments. I love the small Tabasco`s. I collect them. I must have a thousand.
BEHAR: You`re a hoarder.
GARRETT: Yes. I`m a little bit of a hoarder. You didn`t send Tabasco. Sometimes, I put them together, and we call them with a tight (ph) people and have lunch.
BEHAR: Now, you know, we were talking --
GARRETT: Hit that, and I`ll split this. Do they know we`re at a black jack table?
BEHAR: Well, they can see it. Everybody can see it.
GARRETT: They can see it. Who can see it?
BEHAR: The audience. The audience.
GARRETT: What audience?
BEHAR: The millions who are watching us at home.
GARRETT: Oh, my God. I have to have work done. So scary to see the old Raymond thing.
BEHAR: I see you have a very young girlfriend with you.
GARRETT: She`s a little young.
BEHAR: How old is she, 12?
GARRETT: She`s on her activity blanket somewhere.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: Usually, I like to have the monitor here when I`m not with her. She`s doing good. She knows all her shapes.
BEHAR: She does.
GARRETT: But it`s weird. What I didn`t know, there`s an amber alert which is a little strange. Not good.
BEHAR: Where did you meet her?
GARRETT: I met her at American girl in New York. And I said, who`s the one with the shoes that light up? Actually, she`s a lot older. She`s just gentile so she doesn`t worry and doesn`t pay for anything so she looks great.
BEHAR: I see. Was this your dream for your whole life?
GARRETT: Was it my dream?
BEHAR: Yes. To have a good looking gentile girlfriend?
GARRETT: I wouldn`t say it was a dream. It started as a very strange fantasy, actually. And I met her in XY on ice over at the stratosphere. And she was looking around saying, who`s the big Jew? He`s got about a week.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: See, I`m at the point in my life, because, you know, I`ve lost just about everything. I`m at the point of my life --
BEHAR: What do you mean? What have you lost?
GARRETT: What have I lost? Oh, let me see. Dignity, my puppy two weeks ago.
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
GARRETT: I`m at the point where I want to be in a relationship where we know we`re using each other out the gate. The charade is over.
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: You know, she`s met the 9-foot Jew, and I just want her to walk by and give me pudding. She`s actually signed something that she will change me if I need to be changed. Or should going to fill up (INAUDIBLE).
BEHAR: Does she think you`re funny?
GARRETT: No, no. No English. No English. I met her at a Rosetta Stone Seminar.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: And she just sits there, and she goes, I`ve never been with a Jew because I`m from Vermont. So, we used to run from Jew, and then we had a Klan (ph) meeting. I don`t care anymore. I really just don`t care. You know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: But she`s, you know, she`s sweet.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I`m hosting a Miss America --
GARRETT: You`re hosting what?
BEHAR: Miss America. I`m not hosting, I`m judging the Miss America contest.
GARRETT: Who could judge Miss America better than you?
BEHAR: Better than me. No, but he could sit right in there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Why do you say that?
GARRETT: Why do I say that?
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: Because you loathe those people.
BEHAR: I do not. That is not true.
GARRETT: Oh, my God.
BEHAR: They`re lovely girls.
GARRETT: They`re lovely girls.
BEHAR: That`s not the trump thing.
GARRETT: Unbelievable. I just want to be there for the --
BEHAR: Listen, it`s not Miss USA.
GARRETT: I just wanted it to be because you know, my girlfriend --
BEHAR: She could be one of them.
GARRETT: No, not really.
BEHAR: Why? She looks like them.
GARRETT: It`s all about lighting. I mean, you get her in the light and it`s like -- I mean, she weighs 90 pounds.
BEHAR: Could we bring her in here? Let the audience see what she looks like.
GARRETT: No, no. Don`t. She`s very shy.
BEHAR: Really?
GARRETT: But you know what she loves? Watch. We`ll play got your nose.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: She`s young. I don`t care. I don`t care. Look, she knows there`s nothing left for her to get. She knows the Raymond money is gone.
BEHAR: Is it gone?
GARRETT: I put it in the night club.
BEHAR: What did you do?
GARRETT: What did I do? Well, I did something my people never do. I went into something without investors. And I`m not allowed in the temple anymore. The rabbi called and goes, it`s over! But I decided I wanted my own comedy club and Ray was like, why? Why would you do that? You know Ray?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: I can`t tell you how cheap.
BEHAR: Is he really?
GARRETT: I love him. I can`t tell you how cheap.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
GARRETT: We played poker. I don`t know. It`s like ten bucks here, ten bucks there. You know he`s a billionaire, literal. He would squeeze the nickel until the buffalo sheists. You understand what I`m saying? So, we go, why would you -- I go, well help me a little, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: So, I open a club.
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: And I`m getting my ass kicked by the puppet guy down the block.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. He`s coming on next.
GARRETT: I know.
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: And look, you can`t call them puppets. You call them dummie and you get a -- they send someone to your room. Anybody who`s 60 playing with puppets, to me, you should be in intervention for puppet people.
BEHAR: Well, maybe we could do a little intervention when he comes on, Terry Fator, in the next segment.
GARRETT: Terry Fator?
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: I went to his show seven times. I`m not lying. Because I can`t figure out the ending. It`s, you know --
BEHAR: What do you mean?
GARRETT: I don`t know which puppet did it.
BEHAR: Did what?
GARRETT: You haven`t been to the show?
BEHAR: No.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No, but I saw him on a TV set.
GARRETT: I need a marker. I need a marker. Please. And I`d like to be dealt by someone in a turban. Please. Make him come out of the lamp. I`m having so much fun. Where is the black chick you work with? Where is she?
BEHAR: Which one?
GARRETT: Whopper. Whoopi. Whoopi. How is she?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She`s fine. She`s in New York.
GARRETT: She`s a good lady.
BEHAR: She`s a great person. I love her.
GARRETT: I love Whoopi.
BEHAR: I love her.
GARRETT: Actually, I`ve got a little thing for Whoopi.
BEHAR: You do?
GARRETT: I`m into the sisters. I am. That`s how I got this scar right here. She took a shot. Go ahead. Seriously.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you know that --
GARRETT: I`ve seen you gamble later.
BEHAR: You`ve made me speechless.
GARRETT: A couple hundred. It`s a couple hundred you white trash. All right. Trailer people. I love Vegas. I love, love Vegas. I really do.
BEHAR: Do you hear what he`s calling you?
GARRETT: No, it doesn`t matter. Hey, how are you?
BEHAR: He doesn`t mean it. He doesn`t mean it.
GARRETT: Look at all of you. Go buy a mirror for God`s sake, every one of you. All right. There you go. It`s a lot cheaper than the spearmint ride which by the way (INAUDIBLE) -- Quiet! Quiet! This is my time. I`m squeezing out my 15 minutes. Anyway.
BEHAR: Did you know that Charlie Sheen is in town for the porn convention?
GARRETT: Charlie Sheen is in town for the porn convention.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
GARRETT: Really. You`d think he`d stay home for the porn convention. Can you imagine that room? I mean, when he`s done with a hotel room, the stuff that would make CSI run back to the van. Have you ever hung with him? All right, honey. I`ll call you later.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: She`s 12 years old. Leave her alone.
GARRETT: She`s 12 years old, I think I have her beat.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: Oh, look at my girlfriend. She`s down for a nap. Shh. Get me the monitor so I can listen if there`s a problem. Honey, here, get some lie down.
BEHAR: Oh, my God. Destroying the table.
GARRETT: I`m sorry.
(INAUDIBLE)
GARRETT: I`m very sorry, darling. I`m very sorry.
BEHAR: Is there anybody who --
GARRETT: Let me get my nurse. I need a squeegee and a new jacket. What do you think of the (INAUDIBLE)
BEHAR: OK. I love the top, but I`m so happy you stopped --
GARRETT: I love Vegas.
BEHAR: I have to take a break. We`ll be back with more from this crazy man in just a minute. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back at the Planet Hollywood in Las Vegas with comedian, Brad Garrett and joining us here onset is ventriloquist, Terry Fator, who is headlining at the Mirage Resort and Casino. And with Terry is his puppet, Vicky. Welcome to the show Terry and Vicky.
TERRY FATOR, VENTRILOQUIST: Thanks for having us.
VICKY: Oh, it`s nice to be here, honey.
GARRETT: We are thrilled.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, Vicky, let`s interview Vicky for a minute. Vicky, someone said that you look like me. I don`t think you do. Do you think she looks like me, brad?
GARRETT: I don`t. I don`t. I think your stick is a little smaller.
(LAUGHTER)
VICKY: So is yours.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. All righty.
GARRETT: The rabbi got a little crazy with the clippers. Sorry.
BEHAR: Terry, when you were a kid, did you drive your family crazy with puppets?
FATOR: You know, I did. When I was very young, I felt that puppets need to seem like they`re real, so I would hang with the puppets, and I would bring the puppets to dinner and any time we were talking and I told my family I`m not crazy, I`m just trying to learn how to make the puppet seem like it`s real.
GARRETT: And mom never thought maybe that would be a good time for therapy.
VICKY: No, she did.
FATOR: She did. She doesn`t anymore.
BEHAR: Let me talk to Vicky. I understand, Vicky, that you`re a cougar.
GARRETT: She`s not real.
VICKY: That`s right, honey. I am cougar.
BEHAR: I know. Let`s pretend she`s real, OK, Brad, just for the sake of this show.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We only have to suspend reality now for two seconds.
FATOR: That`s right.
BEHAR: Just like you do with your girlfriend. OK.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: She`s only here because there are puppets. I said she could meet the puppets. I`ll be a dragon, right, daddy?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Vicky, I hear that you`re a cougar. Tell me about your cougarness.
VICKY: Oh, well you know how it is. I like to date younger men. With these, it`s real easy.
FATOR: I`m sure it is.
BEHAR: Are you attracted to terry at all because that would be --
VICKY: Not at all. He`s way too old for me.
BEHAR: How about brad?
GARRETT: I`m attracted to Terry.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: I have a thing about southern men.
BEHAR: Do you find Brad attractive at all?
VICKY: Not a bit, no.
BEHAR: No? Why? What`s wrong with him?
VICKY: He`s too old for me too.
BEHAR: He`s too old for you. How old are you?
VICKY: I`m 49, but I play my men like I play blackjack. Anything over 21 is a bust.
BEHAR: Have you had plastic surgery because you look like you might be a little more than 49.
VICKY: Honey, I`ve been (INAUDIBLE) on pile of Legos.
GARRETT: You could do Shakespeare off that balcony. Look at that rack, Joy. Look at that rack.
BEHAR: You know, as I said to Brad before, I am doing the -- hello?
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: It`s Vegas! Why don`t you find something to do? Give us an hour. Give us an hour. OK. Quickly, where`s the valve? Where`s the valve?
VICKY: I`ll let you put your hand in my back hole.
FATOR: No, no. Don`t say that.
BEHAR: So, Vicky, you know, I was telling Brad before that I`m judging Miss America. So, would you like to be part of a pageant? What would be your talent?
VICKY: Let me get this straight. You`re judging Miss America.
BEHAR: Yes.
GARRETT: Thank you.
VICKY: That`s amazing. That`s like Michael Vick judging a dog show.
(LAUGHTER)
FATOR: Don`t even know what that means.
GARRETT: I don`t know what that means either.
BEHAR: But it`s funny.
GARRETT: Time for a commercial.
BEHAR: You`re making me choke, the two of you.
GARRETT: This is amazing. Do you ever like late at night --
BEHAR: Excuse me, Brad. I`m doing the interview.
GARRETT: I`m sorry. I want a show so bad. Anything. I`m on TLC talking to kids next month. I need something, Joy.
BEHAR: You have a comedy club. It`s in the red, but you have it.
GARRETT: 2, 5. 2,5.
BEHAR: He has Tourette. It`s sad. What would be your talent, Vicky, if you`re in the show? In the Miss America?
VICKY: Honey, just look. Do you not see these talents?
BEHAR: Well, that`s not considered a talent. You have to sing or dance or play an instrument.
VICKY: You just ask any of the men I`ve been with, honey.
BEHAR: Well, I mean --
FATOR: Oh, yes. She likes to do this.
VICKY: Well, actually, honey, I can sing.
FATOR: That`s right. You can sing. You want to do something?
VICKY: Yes.
BEHAR: Oh, let`s hear you sing. OK.
VICKY: (SINGING) give me one reason to stay here and I`ll turn right back around. Give me one reason to stay here and I`ll turn right back around.
BEHAR: That`s very good.
VICKY: Thank you.
BEHAR: That`s very good.
FATOR: So, that`s her talent if she was in it.
BEHAR: I see. Well, She would lose. Still, Brad, I --
GARRETT: I used to work at the Mirage for a while.
BEHAR: You did? And?
GARRETT: Terry opened up one night and took everyone`s audience.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He`s going into a depression now.
FATOR: OK.
BEHAR: He`s coming down. It`s --
FATOR: The highs and lows.
BEHAR: He`s bipolar.
GARRETT: No, I`m not bi -- I`m tripolar.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. What`s the third?
VICKY: I took one look and I knew he was buy -- whatever.
BEHAR: But how long have you two been together you and Vicky?
FATOR: Well, actually, Vicky was created for the Mirage. I did not have her at all until I started. And when I signed the deal with Mirage they said, you know, we want you to be a little more adult. We want you to be a little more Vegas, and I said OK. I`ll create a character.
GARRETT: Do you believe that? We love your show. We need it (EXPLETIVE DELETED) like Vegas. Can you work that out? Someone who won`t go to the authorities. Is that really what they said?
FATOR: That`s really what they said. They did.
GARRETT: And you went with it?
FATOR: Absolutely.
GARRETT: They went to me they said the same thing.
BEHAR: They did?
GARRETT: Brad, we need a puppet with a bigger --
BEHAR: And you got one. But, Terry, is it weird sleeping with -- do you sleep with them?
FATOR: I do not sleep with the puppets.
BEHAR: No.
GARRETT: Yes, you do. Tell Joy the truth.
FATOR: I absolutely don`t, no.
GARRETT: Let`s go to the footage of Terry sleeping with the puppet.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Does Vicky get along with the other puppets?
FATOR: Yes. Absolutely. Vicky, all the puppets do get along. We occasionally --
BEHAR: Stop it. Give me those. Stop it.
GARRETT: Do the puppets get along? What has happened to you?
VICKY: She`s trying to --
GARRETT: It`s a puppet. I mean, you`re brilliant. I`ve seen your show seven times. You`re amazing. There`s nobody like you.
BEHAR: Are you competitive with Jeff Dunham?
GARRETT: That`s a question.
FATOR: OK.
(LAUGHTER)
FATOR: I don`t know Jeff. I don`t know Jeff Dunham, but I`m a big fan of his.
GARRETT: Then why did you call him a hack on "Larry King?"
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: Why did you call him a hack? Question like movie. Hello.
FATOR: I love this because he`s entertaining me.
BEHAR: I know that. Was Vicky cheating on you with Jeff Dunham?
(LAUGHTER)
FATOR: With Jeff Dunham?
GARRETT: I want you to stop with the human questions. You`re above that.
FATOR: I`ve had Vicky for two years, and Jeff Dunham just created a character similar to Vicky.
BEHAR: Oh, so, he copied her.
GARRETT: Stealing your puppets.
FATOR: Not stealing puppets, but --
BEHAR: Stealing the ideas.
FATOR: I don`t own the only idea of having a bombshell puppet.
BEHAR: Who was your favorite ventriloquist? What`s his name? Edgar Bergen? He moved his lips. Why would you have him as a role model when he moved his lips?
FATOR: Because his character --
BEHAR: He was a sham.
FATOR: His character development was amazing, and Charlie was such a real person and that`s really what --
GARRETT: Do you think Edgar Bergen slept with Charlie?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Is that my question?
FATOR: But actually, a guy who was --
GARRETT: Ask him if it`s tough to raise puppets in Vegas.
(LAUGHTER)
FATOR: My big influence on me is Ron Lucas.
GARRETT: Do you know Ron? What is this? What is this? Huh?
BEHAR: That`s a magician.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That is not a ventriloquist act. We`ll continue this insanity when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back in Sin City with Brad Garrett and Terry Fator? Terry, did Vicky have a sex change during the break?
FATOR: No. This is --
BEHAR: Who is this?
FATOR: This is Walter. Actually, Walter was -- a lot of people ask me who my favorite puppet is, and it`s Walter because I got him for my 18th birthday. My mother saved for two years. She started saving. It may have been three years. He was very expensive.
WALTER: Yes. I`m not as expensive as Vicky, though. Brad would know about that.
GARRETT: I didn`t know Brokeback Mountain had puppets. This is -- if I could have just gotten -- I don`t know. Without this camera. This is amazing.
WALTER: Yes. He says he didn`t know it, but he did.
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: This is incredible.
BEHAR: How long have you --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Walter?
WALTER: Yes. Talk to me, joy. Come on. Talk to me, honey.
GARRETT: Liza Minnelli, this puppet.
WALTER: That`s right.
BEHAR: Is this puppet a man or a woman?
FATOR: This is a man. This is definitely a man
GARRETT: Ask the puppet, Joy. Ask the puppet.
FATOR: But I did. I got him for my 18th birthday. Got Walter for my 18th birthday. Took me about ten years to create his character. But, yes, actually, he was a political puppet when Walter Mondale was running against Ronald Reagan.
BEHAR: Oh, really? Yes.
FATOR: I created him and I called him Walter Airdale, and he had a Minnesota accent. But then when I started a country band in the early 1990s, I changed his name to Walter T. Airdale and put a cowboy hat on him.
WALTER: And I can yodel honey. You want to hear?
FATOR: Do you want to hear him yodel?
BEHAR: Yes, let`s hear he yodel
(YODELLING)
BEHAR: That`s good.
WALTER: They really like that, don`t they, honey?
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: Actually, I was doing a whole county Texas and I actually -- I was doing a show and said has anybody here ever seen a Jew, and a guy in the back goes, not a live one. Boy, did I get scared. I ran out of there, Joy.
BEHAR: Smart.
GARRETT: I would love for you to come by and do the club.
BEHAR: That was smart.
GARRETT: Come by and do the club because you`re a brilliant standup.
BEHAR: I am too busy. I`m doing three shows a day. While I`m here.
GARRETT: Wow.
BEHAR: Listen, Terry --
GARRETT: That landed nicely. Doing three shows a day. All right. Sorry.
BEHAR: Some people work for a living.
GARRETT: I understand.
BEHAR: Listen, Terry.
FATOR: Yes?
BEHAR: Did you ever think of making a puppet out of Sarah Palin, for example?
FATOR: Making a puppet out of Sarah Palin? That`s a good idea.
BEHAR: Isn`t it a good idea?
FATOR: That`s a very good idea.
BEHAR: What do you think of that idea, Brad?
FATOR: What do you think, Brad?
GARRETT: Is there enough dead wood for that one?
BEHAR: You know, it`s interesting. You`re looking at Walter much more lovingly than you looked at Vicky. I`m just saying.
GARRETT: I feel I have a lot going on with Walter.
BEHAR: Here`s what I have to say to you, Walter. I wish he could quit you.
(LAUGHTER)
FATOR: That`s good.
GARRETT: Are you gay, Terry?
FATOR: Definitely not gay.
GARRETT: Because most puppet people, you know, you play the puppets (INAUDIBLE). Dunham, don`t even ask.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. I have to go. Let me plug all of your things now.
GARRETT: Please plug the things.
BEHAR: As you can see, there are some great shows in Las Vegas.
GARRETT: Yes.
BEHAR: Brad Pitt, the Brad Pitt --
(LAUGHTER)
GARRETT: Boy, is that a rude awakening when you come to the club.
BEHAR: Brad Garrett at the Tropicana. You can also see Terry Fator.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Quiet while I do Terry. Terry is at the Mirage with his various puppets. Next week at my new time, 10:00 p.m. eastern, that`s where this show will be next week, so make sure you find me. Goodnight, everybody. Wasn`t this a funny show?
GARRETT: It was -- I love Joy. I love Joy! Give me a kiss.
END
