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Joy Behar Page
Loughner`s Troubled Mind; Giffords` Recovery; Miss America
Aired January 17, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: It`s my first night at 10:00. And for those of you who usually watch other shows at 10:00, here is what`s going on. On ABC "Castle" tracks a serial killer, on TLC a hoarder lives in filth and on Bravo, a "Beverly Hills Housewife" acts like a biatch. Ok. So now you know everything and you can watch me.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, as feds try to move the trial of suspected Arizona gunman Jared Lee Loughner, new video is released of the alleged shooter walking around his college campus rambling about torture and genocide.
Then Dog, the bounty hunter and his wife stop by to talk about some of the day`s biggest crime stories and their show`s 200th episode.
Plus Ricky Gervais takes off the gloves at the Golden Globes. But did the British funny man cross the line? Joy will recap some of his boldest jokes and you be the judge.
That and more starting now.
BEHAR: Jared Lee Loughner, the 22-year-old awaiting trial for the horrific shootings in Tucson is reportedly sitting in his jail cell showing zero signs of remorse. Meanwhile, bizarre new videos and photos of Loughner are coming to light and each one is painting a picture of a very troubled man.
Here now to discuss this are Dr. Gail Saltz, clinical psychiatrist and associate professor at the New York Presbyterian Hospital; Rikki Klieman, criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; and Claire Martin, contributor to "The Daily Beast".
Welcome, ladies.
Ok. The "L.A. Times" got a video posted by Loughner`s school officials cited this in his suspension. Look at a piece of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JARED LEE LOUGHNER, ALLEGED SHOOTER IN TUCSON ARIZONA: All the teachers that you have are being paid illegally and have illegal authority over the Constitution of the United States under the 1st amendment. This is genocide in America. Thank you.
This Jared from Pima College.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. They kicked him out of school based on this and suspended him. What do you make of that as a shrink?
DR. GAIL SALTZ, PSYCHIATRIST, NY PRESBYTERIAN HOSPITAL: That they kicked him out or the content.
BEHAR: No. What do you make of the video? Yes, what about it?
SALTZ: I mean they are disjointed thoughts. One thought does not lead logically to the next thought to the next thought which makes you think about thought disorder, which is a symptom of a psychotic illness.
BEHAR: Really. I mean if you`re not psychotic though you could say well, he`s being spontaneous or it`s just -- it`s like free association on the couch.
SALTZ: You know, most people don`t free associate into a video. But if this were an isolated thing, I suppose you could say that. Unfortunately that`s what a lot of people did do. Right?
A lot of people looked at him in high school and college and said well, that was a little odd but probably it meant this and this and this. Instead of saying that was pretty odd. It doesn`t make sense to me. I wonder if this guy is in trouble and I need to suggest that he gets some help.
Certainly when you put all the pieces together of not just this but also the paranoid states of the government can`t be trusted because of mind control and brainwashing and so on, you certainly have a picture of somebody who sounds really quite ill.
BEHAR: That`s not right.
Now, other videos that he posted, Rikki, show he`s obsessed with grammar and international currency. Do you think that these videos in a court can be used for the insanity plea?
RIKKI KLIEMAN, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: Oh, of course. And they will be. And you have a wonderful lawyer in Judy Clark who understands how to deal with an insanity defense. The difficulty here is that this may be a person -- certainly Gail is someone who would really understand what the diagnosis would be.
I prosecuted these people, defended these people, he`s a classic from a criminal law point of view, not necessarily from a psychological point of view but probably right for some diagnosis of paranoid schizophrenia, if he tests out that way. That may be true that he has a mental disease or defect.
The question under the criminal law is did that mental disease or defect render him substantially capable, in essence, of deciding right from wrong. And he says as soon as he`s captured, as soon as he`s put in the police car, the first thing he says is I plead the Fifth Amendment. That`s going to be taken as someone who knew he did something wrong.
SALTZ: Here is the problem, somebody can be psychotic, right, and have delusions about all kind of areas but have it not necessarily be about whether it`s right or wrong to kill someone. If for instance he heard a voice say in his head that told him you must kill her because otherwise the devil will inhabit the world --
BEHAR: Like the Son of Sam --
SALTZ: -- something like that. Exactly. That would be a psychotic delusion that directly impacted his ability to understand that what he did was wrong. That would be an insanity defense.
But it is possible to be a paranoid schizophrenic or to have some other psychotic illness and actually understand what was right and wrong in this instance and therefore not qualify.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Hold on one second. Let me check something with Claire. The guy was going from store to store buying ammunition, different things the night before the attack. That makes it sound premeditated, no?
CLAIRE MARTIN, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, he was really busy that night and through the morning. It seems as if he very likely didn`t sleep at all that night. He started at 11:35 p.m., you know. He dropped off some film of himself at a Walgreen`s to get developed. He checked into a motel. He made purchases of various convenience stores.
He, very early in the morning started trying to buy ammunition. He was certainly very busy throughout the night.
BEHAR: He also reportedly took bizarre photos of himself before the rampage. What can you tell us about the photos?
MARTIN: The photos were reportedly of him posing in a red g-string with his gun. And I haven`t personally seen the photos but I`ve heard reports -- I`ve talked to people who have seen them. He`s posing with the gun. He`s wearing a red g-string.
BEHAR: He`s also, Gail, he`s holding the gun by his crotch, others by his buttocks.
MARTIN: Right.
BEHAR: We could construe the gun to be a phallic symbol. What`s up with that part of him?
SALTZ: You know, it is not unusual for people who are struggling with psychotic illnesses to have a lot of sexual content in their delusions, to have a lot of aggressive content in their delusions. And the fact that something is premeditated doesn`t mean that they are not still involved in a psychotic delusion and maybe not even understanding right and wrong.
It means that some process was going on, he had some thought. And it carried through for quite some time. It could have been planned and thought out, although it`s the ability to really organize yourself.
And I would question how organized this was. You took a cab. You didn`t run away. You didn`t get away. You know, there were some things that seemed really disorganized about this plan and that --
BEHAR: Go ahead, Claire.
MARTIN: There`s also the question, he went into the Safeway with the cabdriver to get change. You know, instead of -- it saved him $0.75. That`s a pretty unusual thing to do to save yourself $0.75 in this kind of scenario. It`s surprising that someone would --
BEHAR: -- to save himself money. He could be crazy but he`s still cheap, you know.
KLIEMAN: Only Joy -- only you could come up with that, which is good.
You have to remember one thing and I think that Gail really illustrates it correctly. This is a person who clearly, clearly is suffering from some sort of mental illness. What Judy Clark, his lawyer is going to do is try to save his life. That is the only goal she has. She`s not trying to say he didn`t do this. She`s not trying to say that there was some lesser intent. She`s trying to save his life.
BEHAR: Well, she can`t say he didn`t do it. There were many witnesses.
KLIEMAN: No. Of course. All the other defenses go away. She needs to try to save his life. The problem she has is not only dealing with a very strict insanity defense after John Hinckley in the federal courts but we also the state of Arizona which could decide to prosecute. Their verdict is guilty but mentally ill, that`s different than not guilty by reason of insanity.
BEHAR: I see.
Gail, what responsibility should the mental health community take for this? There are a lot of complaints about Arizona` mental health facilities, et cetera. What do you think about that?
SALTZ: It`s very complicated. The question was, did anybody ever bring him to the attention of a mental -- I mean a mental health person can`t do anything about something they have never seen. I will say that as long as there is a lot of stigma and shame and so on, then probably what is going on in Arizona, as is many states where there aren`t enough memorial health professionals, there aren`t enough hospital beds, there isn`t enough money --
BEHAR: I`m sure there`s cutbacks going on in Arizona also.
SALTZ: Cutbacks like crazy, so people can`t afford or think they can`t afford or think they can`t call someone in and have them brought in to see someone. That was another issue. In this state somebody could have said, called the police and said this person appears very mentally ill to me and doesn`t know that they are. The police would have brought them in.
BEHAR: You know, you just don`t know. I remember when I was in college, there was this guy, this kid, I was thinking about him today, we would be on the bus going to Queens College and he`d be talking to himself. He was a good student. He would be saying "To the victor goes the spoils", over and over and over again. We just made fun of him.
Nobody thought he was mentally ill. We thought what is with him. He`s weird. He got into Queens College. You know?
SALTZ: It wasn`t in the forefront of your mind. That`s what happened with the Hinckleys, they were very intelligent people those parents. They just didn`t think about mental illness. I think in many parts of the country that`s still the case. We need to change that, Joy. We need to change that.
BEHAR: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
SALTZ: There could have been an intervention here --
BEHAR: Yes.
SALTZ: -- and it could have made a difference.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much ladies.
We`ll have more on this story after a quick break. Don`t go away.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords is showing some promising signs of recovery. The hospital has upgraded her condition from critical to serious. And doctors are now saying she could be discharged in days.
Here now with the latest on Giffords` recovery and her road ahead are Elizabeth Cohen, CNN senior medical correspondent; plus Thelma Gutierrez, CNN correspondent on the ground in Tucson.
Thelma, this is pretty good news. Giffords could be discharged in days? Where would she go after -- after that do you think?
THELMA GUTIERREZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Joy, they are saying that she -- she would be discharged from the medical center, and then after that she would go to a rehabilitation center.
Now, one of the things that was really interesting Joy is a couple of minutes ago the neurosurgeon for Congresswoman Giffords, Dr. Lemole, told one of our producers that Mark Kelly, her husband, actually said that his wife was showing him affection by rubbing his shoulder with one hand. And this was a promising sign, because he says that could be a sign of higher cognitive functioning.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Ok.
GUTIERREZ: So again, very good news out of here.
BEHAR: We have some -- some footage on that. I want to show you exactly what he said. Well, it`s not footage, it`s just a quote. "She spent 10 minutes giving me a neck massage. I keep -- I keep telling her, I`m like, "Gabby, you`re in the ICU. You don`t need to be doing this."
But it`s so typical of her that no matter how bad the situation might be for her, you know, she`s looking out for other people."
That`s a very sweet thing. And it means that she recognized her husband and that she`s mobile in a certain way now. It`s very, very advanced, good news, isn`t it?
GUTIERREZ: Yes, absolutely. And in addition to that, Joy, the doctor said today during their news conference that Mark Kelly said his wife smiled at him.
Now, they are saying you know, there are ways to interpret whether it is a smile, but the doctor finally came to the conclusion that if Mark Kelly says his wife is smiling at him, he says, then she is -- that she is smiling at him.
BEHAR: Elizabeth, are you surprised about the pace of her recovery so far? It seems very -- very fast.
ELIZABETH COHEN, CNN SENIOR MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: You know what, Joy, I think whenever you hear that someone has taken a bullet to the brain, you`re kind of amazed that they live.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
COHEN: I mean what an incredible thing. I -- the word miracle kept running through my mind and that doesn`t happen very often. I don`t usually think of the word "miracle." But she is actually really progressing really quite well. She`s able to move, we`re told from a friend of hers that she`s able to move on both sides of her body.
Now, even if it`s just a finger or toe wiggling, that`s -- that`s significant that she`s able to have movement on both sides of her body.
BEHAR: Elizabeth, while I have you there, what -- what do you think is the best scenario for her? Is she going to recover 100 percent?
COHEN: You know what, Joy, I actually did a story last week with a cop in Miami who took a bullet to the brain, took a very similar path to the ones that -- that Giffords took, and he actually is doing great three years later. He`s walking and talking. He`s walking with a limp. But he`s talking. And he`s got full cognitive abilities.
I mean best case scenario, she could recover fully. Now, that`s best case scenario; it might not happen. And as her husband said, you measure these things not in days but in weeks or months or for some people it`s even years.
BEHAR: Thelma, let`s go back to her husband for a second. He -- he talked about meeting Loughner`s parents. What did he say?
GUTIERREZ: Well, he said he`d be willing to meet with them, willing to talk with them, because he says that he believes it`s not their fault and that perhaps they are hurting just as much as everybody else is hurting.
And Joy, I talked to people who knew Jared Loughner before all of this, years ago. They actually described him as a kind person, as someone who`s very talented. And one of his friends said that her heart, while it goes out to all the victims, it also goes out to Loughner`s parents.
One of his jazz instructors was telling us that his mother was very diligent. She took him to practice every Saturday for five years. He played the saxophone, he`s a talented musician. So he said his heart also went out to them.
BEHAR: Another -- another point of the case. Of the situation is that the organs of the 9-year-old child who was killed, Christina Taylor Green, her organs were donated to a young girl in -- in Boston, her father said. Thelma, what do you know about that?
GUTIERREZ: Well, just that her father has said that he would be -- he would love to meet the little girl one day. He said that if he did meet her, he would hug her. And you just have to wonder what goes through a parent`s mind you know when they are coming upon that decision.
And you know, Elizabeth was talking about that a little bit earlier, how difficult it is for parents to arrive at a decision like this and the Greens did and it saved a child`s life.
BEHAR: Yes, the father said that it uplifted his spirit when he knew that his --
GUTIERREZ: Yes.
BEHAR: -- his poor child`s organs were donated to another -- another child. It`s such a sad, sad story. Isn`t it?
(CROSSTALK)
COHEN: It really is, Joy.
I`ve talked to other families that have made that decision when the child is brain dead but the organs are still viable. You can still give them to another person. That it really it made them feel so much better; that a part of their child that passed away could live on in someone else. When that nurse or social worker comes and asks you do you want to donate your child`s organs, I think a lot of parents would say get away from me, I can`t want to think about this. But the fact that they could answer that question and process it really says a lot about them and their big hearts.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Thank you very much, ladies. Thanks so much.
COHEN: Thanks.
BEHAR: We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ladies and gentlemen, the 90th anniversary Miss America, your Miss America 2011 is -- Miss Nebraska, Teresa Scanlon.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was 17-year-old Teresa Scanlon, who at 17 became the youngest Miss America since 1938. And no, I didn`t have a vote that year.
Joining me now is one of my fellow Miss America judges, from "Dancing with the Stars" the fabulous Tony Dovolani. Tony, do you miss me already?
TONY DOVOLANI, "DANCING WITH THE STARS": Hello Joy. Absolutely. I actually kept talking about you how funny and how amazing you are because I had a blast. I had a blast hanging out with this. Remember this, I love you.
BEHAR: Constantly saying I love you to me. Constantly like mouthing it.
DOVOLANI: well, because you were making me laugh. And I think we both thought the same thing throughout the entire judging process because I felt like you and I were --
BEHAR: We were partners over there. Yes. Don`t you think they left all the goodies in the back there? I mean nothing came -- all they saw on television was us waving. We were having a ball back in the little rooms there talking about everything.
DOVOLANI: I thought the entire panel we were from such different backgrounds. We all got along, even though we saw things in different point of views on certain things. We actually found a way to all get along. We all laughed.
I thought you were definitely the one that made everybody laugh and just loose right from the get go. So I really appreciate it.
BEHAR: And what about Marc Cherry, who is an idiot savant when it comes to knowing Miss America trivia. I couldn`t believe it. And Tony, you know --
Go ahead, Tony, talk.
DOVOLANI: Marc was funny. He revealed a secret. He said he apparently had books about Miss America in his toilet. So apparently he spends a lot of time there.
BEHAR: I know. He had every Miss America contestant sign the book. A little obsessive, but who am I to judge.
Did you see the moment when Miss Nebraska won and Miss Arkansas had a smile, do you think she was really glad? The one who lost?
DOVOLANI: I think Miss Arkansas got her hopes up because the audience really did like her performance. Her talent was really amazing. In fact, I think she knocked it out of the park on the final night. Because when she first did it, we were all kind of taken aback by it. But I thought in the final night she really knocked it out of the park.
But I was happy with Miss Nebraska. I liked Miss Hawaii also. So it was between those two for me.
BEHAR: Can we talk about Miss Hawaii for a second. You and Mark Wells (ph), who is a country western singer who also was in the group and you know, he was packing heat. Are you aware of the fact he had a gun on him the whole time?
DOVOLANI: Yes. He had a gun on him the entire time so I felt safe.
BEHAR: I thought he was glad to see me but it wasn`t true. He actually had a gun.
DOVOLANI: He heard that you might have a different point of view on that, so he figured make sure that he makes you completely uncomfortable.
BEHAR: I know. I really liked him even though he`s a right wing republican, I liked him. See how open-minded I am.
DOVOLANI: I ended up having a little bit of bromance with him.
BEHAR: You had a bromance. We were all in love with each other especially when you`re packing heat. I particularly like you, you know what I mean?
DOVOLANI: We kind of have no choice. Otherwise he`d shoot us, right?
BEHAR: Yes. But you know, you and Marc were so in love with Miss Hawaii, did you think she was going to give you a lei? Is that what that was about?
DOVOLANI: I don`t think my wife would appreciate that.
BEHAR: You know what I`m talking about, flowers around the neck, ok? Get your mind out of the gutter, Tony.
DOVOLANI: I`m fine.
BEHAR: I`m talking about a necklace.
DOVOLANI: The thing about Miss Hawaii, I thought she had great presence. I thought she had an incredible smile. She had a twinkle in her eye. I thought she really shined that night. But I couldn`t overlook Miss Nebraska. I thought Miss Nebraska was really -- had the complete package.
If I want my daughter to look up to anybody, it would be Miss Nebraska because she can relate to kids and she could relate to adults. She was never shy to answer a question. That was good.
BEHAR: Yes. But before we go -- I`m running out of time. What did you think about all the thumping, leaping around the stage, a lot of dancing? Tell the truth.
DOVOLANI: I have to say I was extremely disappointed -- I am completely disappointed with the dance level. I just thought that they would have more talent than that. In fact, there was one particular person that we both kept looking at each other when she sang and she tried bravely to sing "Bodyguard", I think the two of us we stayed very composed during that.
It was great to try though. I give her credit for that.
BEHAR: Some of them -- a lot of them were good but a lot of them were not. We had to play it dead hand, which is not easy for me.
DOVOLANI: There`s one thing I want to ask you, actually. Whenever you asked about whether they were feminist, did you find it surprising that they all shied away from that question?
BEHAR: Absolutely. I kept asking all of them, are you a feminist? And they were like, "Not really. Not really." They were scared of the word feminist. They have to learn that you must be -- embrace the word --
DOVOLANI: I think they think of the word feminist as a negative thing. I was surprised that they thought of it as a negative thing. I don`t think it`s a negative thing. I think it`s a positive thing.
In fact, when they answered some of the questions, they were feminists. There`s nothing wrong with that.
BEHAR: Ok. I wish I had more time Tony. But I`m out of time. Thanks for doing this. Where are you anyway, in Palm Springs?
DOVOLANI: I am in Palm Springs playing golf at the Bob Hope Classic. Having a blast and it`s 85 degrees weather. Don`t make me work.
BEHAR: I enjoy the Dinah Shore classic. Get it?
DOVOLANI: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s my fave. Anyway, if you`re in California, check out Tony`s dance camp at the Burbank Marriott, February 4th through 6th.
Bye, Tony. It was wonderful to see you. We`ll be right back.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight, on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", Michael Douglas one-on-one. We talk to Michael as he returns to center stage after beating cancer.
11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The Golden Globes were last night. And my favorite part was when Angelina Jolie tried to adopt the kid from "Glee." But that`s me. Everyone else seems to be talking about Ricky Gervais` controversial jokes. Take a look at a little of Ricky`s patter.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICKY GERVAIS, GOLDEN GLOBE HOST: It`s going to be a night of partying and heavy drinking. Or as Charlie Sheen calls it, breakfast. Nothing for "Sex in the City 2"? No. I was sure that Golden Globes for special effects would go to the team that air brushed that poster.
Also not nominated, "I love you, Phillip Morris," Jim Carrey and Ewan McGregor, two heterosexual actors pretending to be gay. So, the complete opposite of some famous Scientologist then.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, Gervais was so outrageous that Whoopi and I walked out of my living rooms in protest.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news, our A.J. Hammer, host of HLN`s "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," which comes on after this; Carrie Keegan, host of NGTV.com and "Jump Start" on VH1; and the lovely and talented, Robert Verdi, celebrity stylist and co-creator of firstcomesfashion.com.
Greetings.
A.J. HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": He`s lovely, too.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We go back. He fixed up my house so I have a special part in my heart. Yes, he`s quite the diva, trust me.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. So, let`s start with you, Gervais.
HAMMER: He was great. I think people are blowing this way out of proportion. Right before I walked in here, we just heard, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" just heard from the HFPA, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association, and they said, yes, some things he said were over the top. Yes, at some point he did cross the line and we don`t condone any of the things he said. They were negative about people. But It was a great night and everybody was happy about the how the night went.
Will he be asked back? Yes, probably.
BEHAR: Well, he hasn`t been back yet. Last year, they asked him back right after the show. This year, they didn`t do that.
ROBERT VERDI, CELEBRITY STYLIST: I think it was great. I love it.
BEHAR: It`s funny.
VERDI: And I think that if you can`t laugh at yourself, I will.
(LUAGHTER)
VERDI: Because -- well, he`s seriously. He talks about all the elephants in the room.
BEHAR: Yes.
VERDI: Which was great. And I think that a lot of celebrities handled it well. Robert Downey, Jr. was great when he went up there.
CARRIE KEEGAN, HOST, NGTV.COM: And I think it would have been a better show if everyone had stood up to him a little bit and just showed a little bit of balls.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: People didn`t react to him.
HAMMER: I was happy to see Robert Downey, Jr. actually react. Some people walked out and acted like he said nothing. And the Golden Globes used to be looser and it had its loose moments last night.
KEEGAN: I think they used to be like drunker, too.
BEHAR: But, you know, they keep putting comedians in this position -- I mean, and then trash the comedians. Letterman who was very funny on the Oscars, Uma, Oprah, trashed.
HAMMER: He`s great.
BEHAR: What he`s name, Stephen Colbert at the Correspondence Dinner, trashed him. Wanda Sykes, funny, trashed.
I mean, what do they want, Elizabeth Kubler to host it?
VERDI: No, they want that guy who chewed his arm off and that area girl who can`t walk in heels to host the Oscars.
BEHAR: OK. All right. So, now, some celebrity apprehenders took it on themselves to push back at Gervais a bit. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBERT DOWNEY, JR., ACTOR: Aside from the fact it`s been hugely mean- spirited with mildly sinister undertones, I`d say the vibe of the show is pretty good so far, wouldn`t you?
(LAUGHTER)
TOM HANKS, ACTOR: Like many of you, we recall back when Ricky Gervais was a slightly chubby but very kind comedian.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Neither of which is he now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. So, you think that was pushback enough? It`s not even that funny.
VERDI: No, at least they pushed back. I agree with what you said. I think that they should really push back and make light of it.
KEEGAN: You can`t hire Ricky Gervais and not expect that to happen. That`s what he was there to do. And he`s even told everybody that when I`m doing it this year, I`m going to be worse than it was last year, so watch out. So, it wasn`t a surprise.
HAMMER: Piers Morgan was on "The View" with you guys this morning and I thought he put perfectly. He said, you know, you invite the shark to dinner and all of a sudden, he eats everybody, are you going to stand around and say, why did that happen?
BEHAR: Well, we can say that about Piers Morgan when he starts his show.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. But what about the scientology thing?
VERDI: The commercial.
BEHAR: No, the thing about sort of outing a couple of celebs who are Scientologists, and saying, you know, outing them as if they`re gay. That`s a bit over the edge, I think.
KEEGAN: But it`s not anything that people weren`t thinking already. I think it`s just nothing that someone wants to talk about in front of a whole lot of Hollywood and a whole lot of people.
BEHAR: But there`s so many things that people are thinking in showbiz. They`re thinking, hey, so-and-so smells, you don`t say. You know what I mean? You don`t have to say it just because it`s true.
VERDI: I know somebody who smells.
BEHAR: Yes, who?
VERDI: And you know the same person.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You don`t say anything.
HAMMER: It was funny, too, about the scientology joke he made. He said immediately after delivering the joke, my lawyers helped me craft that joke to put the worse together. I guarantee you, Ricky Gervais will be getting a letter from the Church of Scientology today because that`s what happened.
BEHAR: Right. And they are scary. I watch my P`s and Q`s around the scientology topic, believe me, they are worse than the Catholic -- they are worse than the Catholic Church. I mean, when they come after you, if you say something against them, oh, yes. L. Ron Hubbard is walking around here with a knife.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Now, the Golden Globes gave out a lot of swag last night, also, including gym memberships, diamonds, and trips to Africa. Angelina going to Africa is like me going to Bloomingdale`s, OK? If she goes to Africa, she`s shopping for babies.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That is not a trip. That is a job for Angelina.
All right. Let`s talk swag for a second. First of all, the daytime Emmys, the swag was miniscule compared to this stuff.
HAMMER: First of all, I don`t think there`s a real problem with the swag in the gift suites. And quite frankly, you`re not going to find the A-list stars going into them and taking all the free stuff. You`ll find the housewives going in there. You`ll find B-list stars.
BEHAR: Which housewives? You mean, the Beverly Hills and those types?
HAMMER: Yes, that`s who is going to cash in on all that stuff. You really are not going to find Angelina Jolie walk into a swag suite.
VERDI: People like, I don`t care what it is, I mean, a trip to Africa, a pair of boots, you know, a bottle of water, they -- people like free crap. I mean, so much so that I think you could actually put crap in a box -- like literally give people free crap like poop.
BEHAR: Like dog poop. You can put dog poop. Yes.
VERDI: Free crap.
HAMMER: And they`ll take it.
VERDI: Oh, my God, it`s free crap. Thank you.
BEHAR: And if it`s packaged nice, though.
KEEGAN: And everyone gets their photo taken with it though. I mean, the whole reason why those are there so those people can get their products in the hands of someone famous. And, unfortunately most of the gifting suites, only the B-listers, C-listers and people that you don`t know show up. So, now, they have a bunch of photos --
BEHAR: That`s a good point. Yes.
HAMMER: You always hear people right around award season, you hear a lot of people whining about, oh, all the people who really can go out and afford this stuff are getting it for free. Do you really think it`s that big of a deal that people are being offered some free stuff and if they choose to take it, they do?
VERDI: No, people who receive the stuff aren`t using the gifts. They are giving it to nannies, and to their housekeepers, people who can`t afford it.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: I`ve gotten the stuff before. I give it away.
BEHAR: I use every cream because I need it. I need to moisturize and they want to give it to me. Thank you.
HAMMER: You`re on the way to Africa to get some babies?
BEHAR: Africa is very drying.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Next topic, Sandra Bullock told Al Roker that she and Ryan Reynolds are not -- I repeat -- not an item, Sandra Bullock. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AL ROKER, NBC NEWS: All this stuff about Ryan --
SANDRA BULLOCK, ACTRESS: Oh, my lover. My new lover?
ROKER: Your lover, Ryan Reynolds.
BULLOCK: I think there will be a collective sigh amongst women across the United States when I say he`s not my lover.
ROKER: He`s not?
BULLOCK: He`s just an amazing friend I`ve had for 10 years and I hope there`s more friendship like that. But I don`t his loving after dark.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So, they do it in the morning.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Do you buy this?
VERDI: I think that I`m more interested in her bangs than who she`s banging. It was a hair issue for me.
BEHAR: I love that.
VERDI: I`m more interested in her hair. I think that we`ve all had relationships that are more than friendship and less than love. And that might just be that.
BEHAR: I think you`re talking about my first marriage.
KEEGAN: Do you really think she`s going to use that red carpet to be like, yes, we`re together. His ex-wife is there. Isn`t it cool?
HAMMER: And here`s the thing. You know, they were together on New Year`s Eve and that`s when the news exploded that, you know, these two were together all of a sudden. Why is it that two celebrities, male, female, can`t be together without these reports going wild? I don`t understand that. And everybody goes nuts with the reports. They have been friends for 10 years.
I think sometimes we`re just a little too cynical about it all.
BEHAR: Well, didn`t he just leave Scarlett Johansson, right? Now, he`s hanging around with Sandra Bullock. At the very least, the appearance of impropriety is there. And she doesn`t want to be perceived as, you know, a home wrecker.
HAMMER: Well, she`s also friends with Scarlett Johansson.
BEHAR: She was.
HAMMER: Well, I have a feeling they`re still friends. I don`t think just because she`s friends with Ryan, it doesn`t mean that they can`t all be friends. I don`t -- this is where we`re too cynical sometimes.
BEHAR: OK. You`re too good, A.J.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Mellencamp and Ryan there, Meg Ryan. They`ve been seen together a lot. Isn`t he married or something? So, people start yakking (ph).
KEEGAN: They just announced their divorce.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
VERDI: I heard Meg Ryan and Sandra Bullock were hooking up. I don`t know if it`s true.
BEHAR: I think it`s Sandra Bernhard.
Thanks very much, guys.
And don`t forget, you can see my pal, A.J. Hammer on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" right after this show.
Back in a minute with "Dog the Bounty Hunter," my favorite. I love him.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ANNOUNCER: Tomorrow on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW: Four-time Academy Award nominated actor, Ted Harris. Now, back to Joy.
BEHAR: He`s the world`s most famous bounty hunter, tracking down bad guys across America with TV cameras in tow. The 200th episode of his reality, "Dog the Bounty Hunter" airs January 26th on A&E. Here`s a sneak peek.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We have information he snuck in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go, go.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We just dealt with the owner of the house. Come here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Big search, guys.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The house is clear.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now are two of my favorite guests on this show for sure are: Duane "Dog" Chapman and his lovely wife, Beth Chapman. Congratulations to you guys.
DUANE "DOG" CHAPMAN, DOG THE BOUNTY HUNTER: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: I mean, 200th episode. It`s a good thing there are criminals out there, keeps you working.
D. CHAPMAN: Really, yes.
BEHAR: Are you surprised that you`re so successful in this show?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, absolutely. We`re very blessed. We`re surprised. We`re happy about it. Hopefully, we can have 200 more. We`re living, you know, a dream.
BEHAR: You`re living a dream.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: What are the highlights and bad things about the show? What are the good and the bad?
BETH CHAPMAN, DOG THE BOUNTY HUNTER: Well, the good thing is it really gives us a vehicle to go out and reach people in places that most people don`t want to even go, you know? Your upstanding citizen sees the guy that`s begging for money on the side of the road, we`re pulling over and stopping. Why are you doing that? Why do you need this?
You know, it gives us the opportunities to really get out to people that are just hopeless. And they, you know, are hooked on drugs. They can`t keep themselves straightened out. And it gives us an opportunity to step in.
BEHAR: So, you really live by that motto, if you see something, say something. But if you see something, do something, is really more to the point with you guys.
Let`s go to the Arizona shootings for a second then because we were just talking about, you know, the fact that the guy is mentally ill. And that it really went undiagnosed and unchecked for a long time and it came to that. If you saw somebody ranting, and free associating this crazy way on the street, what would you do?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, it`s amazing you say this because, of course -- what would you say?
B. CHAPMAN: Confront them.
D. CHAPMAN: Confront them. What you -- there are three things that should have happened to that. You want to tighten those laws up. We have the experience and knowledge to know how. Number one, you renew the gun permit.
BEHAR: Say it again --
D. CHAPMAN: You want to make this not happen again so easily, tighten it up where it would be hard to do.
It`s hard right now to bomb a plane. All right? Let`s make it hard right now to kill a senator or a member of Congress. Number one, all gun permits should be renewed every two years, just like your driver license. You have you to get 10 references. You call that reference. Any of those kids could have said, this guys is now kicked out of college, he`s crazy.
Number two, where did he buy the ammunition?
BEHAR: He walked into a store. I was in Las Vegas where you can buy ammunition and guns all over the place. There are ads in the airport and everything.
D. CHAPMAN: Now, you sell something -- can you buy dynamite at Wal- Mart?
BEHAR: I don`t know.
D. CHAPMAN: Can you buy dynamite at Kmart?
BEHAR: I really don`t know, but you can buy guns at Wal-Mart, I think. Yes.
D. CHAPMAN: But what is the difference between a bullet and dynamite. So, put it back into the gun dealers. If that kid would have walked into a real gun dealer at 7:30, 8:00 in the morning, and said, I need a bullet, I need some bullets, the guy would have said, "Wait a minute, 911."
B. CHAPMAN: The gun dealer would have said, absolutely not.
D. CHAPMAN: No.
B. CHAPMAN: You know, there`s a difference about being trained and accountable. When you`re a gun dealer, you know what you`re looking for. You`re looking for those signs of mental illness. When you`re a Wal-Mart clerk, I don`t know that you have --
BEHAR: So, you`re saying not sell it in any old store. What about the gun shows?
B. CHAPMAN: They should be controlled.
D. CHAPMAN: That`s illegal, you know? Everyone knows you can go to them and buy those things. That should be illegal.
B. CHAPMAN: That`s what they prey. They prey in those places because they know that they can buy guns and ammunition in those places that don`t have regulations gun stores do.
BEHAR: But you guys are talking like two rational human beings who also have guns, I presumed.
D. CHAPMAN: No. We have nonlethal weapons. OK? We use nonlethal. Number one, I`m a 31-year-old felon, 30 years ago. So, I can`t use a gun.
But number two --
BEHAR: What did you do to be a felon?
D. CHAPMAN: I did something bad in Texas.
BEHAR: Did you kill somebody?
D. CHAPMAN: No, I was in a gang fight and someone died.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
D. CHAPMAN: So, 30 years ago. So, I can`t own a gun, but I use nonlethal. You know, we can put an elephant on his knees like that. I don`t believe in killing. I`m not a vigilante. I believe in getting -- if the guy comes in to get my mother, I`m going to give her something to shot him and he`s going down.
BEHAR: But it seems as though the -- like I don`t want to bad mouth anybody in this because I don`t know enough about what they`re talking about. But seems like the NRA is always out to protect gun owners no matter how -- what they are. And they seem to be like to stop any kind of controls over it. That`s my impression. Is it true?
B. CHAPMAN: You have the right -- we have the right to bear arms, right, and you never want to lose the right to bear arms, because it`s an important right to have, but, you know, it`s a really fine line to be able to regulate it in such a way where a guy who`s maybe not a nut this year but becomes a nut by the end of the year doesn`t get to have that gun anymore or the permit. It`s tough.
D. CHAPMAN: If you renew that every couple of years, this mental health kid, this one right here, he wasn`t born like that. You see how he grew into that. People all over were saying he`s crazy. So, right away --
B. CHAPMAN: You know, the kids in college were saying on the first day of school, there`s a guy in my class whose mental, I`m sitting by the door. There`s e-mails, there`s all of these different things that happened way back in June when people who weren`t even in law enforcement were recognizing that Loughner had all these signs and they thought he was going to come back with a semiautomatic. So, there were definitely signs out there that definitely could have been caught.
BEHAR: OK. You know, before we go to break, I have to ask you about that necklace. What is that? What does it say? Property of dog?
B. CHAPMAN: Yes.
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: And you have ball and chain on your ankle.
B. CHAPMAN: Yes, I do.
D. CHAPMAN: I`m kind of possessive.
B. CHAPMAN: It`s a joke.
BEHAR: Apparently.
D. CHAPMAN: I`m sorry.
BEHAR: Did you buy that for her, "Property of dog"?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes, I had it made.
B. CHAPMAN: You know what? There are so many diamonds in it that it`s kind of hard to refuse the leash, collar.
D. CHAPMAN: Let`s talk more about the gun thing some more please.
BEHAR: OK. We`re going to be back with more Duane and Beth Chapman when we come back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get down now.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Take all your kids inside! Mothers and father, this is not a joke. Get your kids inside!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a look at the upcoming 200th episode of "Dog The Bounty Hunter." And I`m back with the stars of the show, Dog and Beth.
You wanted to talk more about guns but I wanted to also talk -- I don`t have all night. I also wanted to show that you were spoofed on "SNL" recently. I want people to watch that.
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Making his 10,000th appearance, Dog the Bounty Hunter.
JEFF BRIDGES, ACTOR: Pleasure to be here, Larry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Dog, you`re the smartest man I know. You chase down criminals trying to avoid capture. Have you ever thought about changing your look to something less recognizable?
BRIDGES: Oh, this is my look, Larry. Very few people look like a bird Hulk Hogan.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. That was Jeff Bridges as Dog. Do you think he did him justice?
B. CHAPMAN: He did. It was a very funny skit. So, you know, people who are keep up to date with Dog probably found a lot of humor.
BEHAR: Do you like it, Dog, when they make fun of you like that? Play --
D. CHAPMAN: Well, you know, it all defends -- of course, I do him, right, but don`t try it, Chris Angel.
BEHAR: You know, Beth, you`re more of a bad ass than he is on your show. So, what happens in the bedroom?
B. CHAPMAN: Well, we, wow -- it`s smoking.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s smoking, huh?
B. CHAPMAN: And it`s smoking, and sometimes, there`s fire.
D. CHAPMAN: Without a king, ma`am, there couldn`t be a queen. So, back then, you know
BEHAR: That`s what they say in Chelsea (ph). Listen, are you ever going to get tired of running after fugitives or do you never get tired of it?
D. CHAPMAN: Well, they`re advancing. They`re getting smarter. So, it`s more of a challenge to us.
BEHAR: They`re getting smarter?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, yes. They`re getting a lot technical now. And we got things that can tell -- hey, hey. We can go to the house and see if the heat in their body is there with these little machines that they`re hiding. So, we`re getting technical, too. It`s just like --
B. CHAPMAN: It`s like playing with toys, Joy.
BEHAR: Don`t interrupt him. You`re his property.
B. CHAPMAN: That`s why I get to interrupt him. They just love all the mechanics, the gadgets and they get to go and they do the heat-seeking thing.
D. CHAPMAN: Well, you`re going after really bad people that really hurt people, hurt women and children and do terrible things. You catch the guy. Some of them deserve a second chance. They really have -- we have so many people, 45 percent of our people that we`ve arrested, 250, have gotten a job and changed their life. The other 60 are still in prison. It does help.
B. CHAPMAN: Well, just somebody to love them a little bit and show them a little attention and show them the way. You know, being in jail and being in the criminal justice system is hell.
BEHAR: I have I a couple of Twitter questions, it`s from people who watch the show, OK? Will you ever cut your hair, dog? Someone wants to know.
D. CHAPMAN: No.
BEHAR: Never?
D. CHAPMAN: Never.
BEHAR: How long did it take to you grow?
D. CHAPMAN: Years. I kind of trim it here a little. If it falls out completely, I`ll buy a wig.
B. CHAPMAN: He doesn`t let me watch.
BEHAR: What do you mean he won`t let you watch?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is that very like a personal thing, the way you trim your hair?
B. CHAPMAN: Yes.
D. CHAPMAN: I`m half Indian and it`s like --
BEHAR: Really?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Are you Native American? Part of you?
D. CHAPMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes? It`s like they can`t take a photograph of the Native American. They think you`re stealing their soul, right? Same idea with the hair?
D. CHAPMAN: Oh, maybe, yes.
BEHAR: OK. Beth, you sure lost a lot of weight. How did you do it? Someone wants to know.
B. CHAPMAN: I do seven days a week exercise. And I do four days of extreme cardio in the Y.
BEHAR: Really? How about the food? You`re cutting back?
B. CHAPMAN: Very, very low --
BEHAR: No sweets?
B. CHAPMAN: No. I should not have sweets at all. Sometimes, I indulge because we`re women. Most of the time, I keep a high water diet, cabbage and lettuce and --
BEHAR: Cabbage and lettuce, what are you a rabbit?
(CROSSTALK)
B. CHAPMAN: I mix hamburger with it sometimes and a little bit of chicken. But I stick to really high water foods.
BEHAR: How much did you lose?
B. CHAPMAN: I lost about 35, 40 pounds.
BEHAR: Good for you.
D. CHAPMAN: About 50 pounds. But this is a sport. I mean, if you tackle and fight `em, you fight `em, and she`s got to be fit to be able to -- you know, she`s got to fight. So, you got to be -- not as fit as Hulk Hogan, but you --
BEHAR: She`s got to fight you.
D. CHAPMAN: I told her that was different.
BEHAR: All right, you two whacky kids, I have to go.
B. CHAPMAN: OK.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank you very much. We love you.
BEHAR: Always a pleasure to see you and keep up -- keep catching those bad guys.
D. CHAPMAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you can catch a special best of episode of "Dog the Bounty Hunter" on January 26th at 8 p.m., followed by the 200th episode at 9 p.m. on A&E.
Good night, everybody.
BROOKE ANDERSON, "SHOWBIZ TONIGH": Hi there. I`m Brooke Anderson. This is a "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" news break.
And here`s what`s on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" at the top of the hour: Oprah`s stunning suicide revelation. Why Oprah once wanted to end it all?
Snooki`s big apology. Why the "Jersey Shore" star regrets making fun of HLN`s Joy Behar?
That`s your "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" news break, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts at the top of the hour here on HLN.
END
