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Tiger Mom Talks; Kidnap Miracle
Aired January 20, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Well, this is the first week of my show being on at 10:00 p.m., and so far so good; I`m loving it. I feel a lot freer and more comfortable. In fact, even though you can`t see it at home, under this desk, I`m wearing footy pajamas -- fabulous and hot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Joy interviews Amy Chua, the author behind the controversial "Tiger Mom" theory of parenting that has everybody talking about whether you should coddle your kids or crack the whip.
And a kidnapped daughter returns home. Joy White`s infant vanished 23 years ago and now they`ve been miraculously reunited. We`ll have all the details of this incredible story.
Plus the lovely ladies of "Hot in Cleveland" are back again tonight to talk about their hit show.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Have you heard of tiger mom yet? She`s become the center of a controversy after her new book details her extreme parenting techniques. She`s been vilified by some and praised by others and she`s not even running for anything. Let`s meet the woman and herself and decide for ourselves. Amy Chua, author of "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother".
Welcome to the show Amy.
AMY CHUA, AUTHOR, "BATTLE HYMN OF THE TIGER MOTHER": Thank you. Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Ok. I`m going to be open-minded in this interview --
CHUA: Ok.
BEHAR: -- because I was reading some of the press, and you sound a little extreme to me, but I`m willing to hear your side. I want to hear it.
CHUA: Ok.
BEHAR: All right. Go ahead.
CHUA: I want to say though that this book is just a memoir, it`s not a parenting book. It`s just about my own journey.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
CHUA: I`m not trying to tell --
BEHAR: We know that, we`re just trying to decide if you`re too harsh as a parent basically.
CHUA: Ok. Let`s talk about it. And maybe I have been.
BEHAR: It`s possible. So first I want to read some of your rules from the book. Just go over them a little bit. No play dates, children are not allowed to be in a school play. No TV or computer games, which I happen to agree with you on that one. That`s a good idea. I mean they watch too much television, they play too many games and they don`t pay attention enough to school.
But no choosing their own extracurricular activities. They must get at least an A. What happens if they don`t get an A?
CHUA: Joy, can I explain something about that famous list? This is part of the problem. That list is a little bit deadpan humor, and some people get it, they think it`s so funny. No, I`m not backing down. That list was applied very strictly to me by my strict Chinese immigrant parents.
My parents -- I was raised by super strict immigrant parents who is came to this country so poor, my dad wore the same pair of shoes for six years. They raised me and my three younger sisters very strictly, but always very lovingly.
So that list was applied straight to me. People misunderstand, they`re like no sleepovers? How cruel? I actually when I was little I did kind of resent that. But now I realize, my parents were these immigrants. They come from Second World War, they had endured all this hardship, and they came to this country they`re all alone, they barely speak English.
And I remember my dad would say to me, he`s like, why do you -- we have a home here? We have a bed here for you. Why do you need to go to someone else`s house this week.
BEHAR: I understand that because my father was like that too. He would not allow me to have any sleepovers, I think he was afraid of child molesters.
CHUA: well, actually that`s an interesting -- so it depends. So just to quickly explain, that list is a little tongue in cheek; with my own kids I was a little bit more lenient. And as you know that voice at the -- by the end of the book I am way more lenient. You know, I get my comeuppance.
BEHAR: Do you believe that they should not be in the school play or not?
CHUA: Not any more. Not any more. Now I believe -- that was a joke that my mom -- when I was little, my mother was very narrow, and again you have to think of that mentality. They were so poor, they`re like I want my kid to have stability in life.
BEHAR: All right, they were poor. I heard you, let`s move on.
CHUA: No wait.
BEHAR: I got it.
CHUA: It`s the career. I don`t want you to grow up to be something like a struggling artist or a poet or an actor.
BEHAR: I understand that, but to --
CHUA: Yes.
BEHAR: You seem to have gone to the extreme, whether it`s tongue in cheek or not, I think a lot of the stories are true.
CHUA: Yes.
BEHAR: When you say they must play the violin or piano, I guess cello is another high class instrument. What if you can`t afford the lessons, for example, what is a mother to do then?
CHUA: Yes. I do not think -- maybe it`s hard to figure out what`s tongue in cheek. You`ve read the book, right? You know my daughter rebels against me, and my book --
BEHAR: One of them did. One of them did. Your daughter --
CHUA: My second one. Right. So this -- all the rules that you`re reading, and that unbearable tone, like over confident, that was basically me 18 years ago, when I had an easy first kid and my parents methods worked on me. I adore my parents. That`s why I owe everything to them.
So I was like, you know this is easy, this is what I`m going to do. My second daughter came along, we fought from day one. But at 13 it wasn`t just fighting, she just hated me. She started to hate the violin even though she got so good. She was so alienated.
BEHAR: Why?
CHUA: And honestly, Joy, you know that this story, the last third of the story is heartbreaking, and what I learned is, I suddenly realized what am I doing? I`m going to lose my daughter and who cares about the violin?
At the end as you know, I let my daughter drop it. She wanted to play tennis, she`s not ever going to be -- it makes her happy. I`m so proud that I made that decision. I think that listening, you have to listen to your kids --
BEHAR: You know what? Amy can I say something -- you need to write another book, because you seem to be backtracking on everything in this book.
CHUA: No, I am not backtracking.
BEHAR: Let me ask you something about this other part. Some of the stuff you say I agree with you, I`m a completely different type of mother, I`m very lenient. I`m a Dr. Spock child myself, and let them do whatever they want. That`s how I am. I want my children to be happy.
CHUA: There`s not one -- I do want to say that I`m not backtracking. Ask me some questions, I`m very strict on academic excellence. I do think play dates and sleepovers are overrated. I think western kids get too much chance -- I mean too much choice. But I just think the idea is a balance.
Ask me the tough questions.
BEHAR: Ok. I agree with you. I think that that`s true. And a lot of the things that the Asian mothers do with their children are very, very excellent choices.
As we know, they`re the high achievers in all the schools, you know. But there are down sides to it.
CHUA: Yes.
BEHAR: So this part was a little bit confusing to me, in the book it says you called your daughters garbage, pathetic, lazy, self-indulgent. What is that about?
CHUA: Ok. First of all, this book, there are moments I am not proud of, Joy. In fact, I wish people would be a little bit more honest about -- when you have teenagers, show me a teenaged household where there`s not some conflict. I could tell you, but you don`t have to believe me, that my kids grew up in a loving, non-abusive household. But you don`t know my family, so you don`t have to believe me. Words in one context may not mean the same in another.
I want to talk about the garbage thing, now it`s out there like Amy Chua thinks you should call your kids garbage if they don`t get an A. That is so wrong.
I was called garbage in my Chinese dialect by my father once and only once in my entire life. And it was when I was about 14, my family demanded total respect -- this is like traditional parenting -- and I had a fit that I think western kids do all the time. But I said like shut up to my mom, I hate you.
My dad came in and it was in Chinese, like in the press it`s like, oh, he made you feel like a piece of garbage. The message I got was, Joy, he was saying shame on you, your mother has devoted her life to you, she`s tried her best, she`s given you everything. And if you can`t appreciate that and show her the respect that`s due her and be grateful, and you just talk to her like that, it doesn`t matter what kind of a student you are, you are worth nothing.
BEHAR: I see.
CHUA: And that`s the message. And that`s the -- I used that word garbage once and only once in my household in a very similar context.
BEHAR: You remember it, though, to this day, you were 14, your father said it, you remember it to this day.
CHUA: I do.
BEHAR: Because you don`t forget things like that.
CHUA: You know, it didn`t and I don`t forget it. But I didn`t feel like garbage, I just felt ashamed.
BEHAR: Well, it`s the same thing.
CHUA: But maybe it`s a cultural difference because I think maybe in the west, if you feel ashamed of something that is supposed to be very bad for your self-esteem. Not me, I felt like, I am a good person, and I owe my mom more self-respect.
But I will tell you, I am not proud of that moment myself. I wish I had said to Sophia instead of being so hot-tempered. I wish I had said shame on you, instead of that word. I used it once, though.
BEHAR: Let me clear up the birthday card incident that people are talking about.
CHUA: Ok.
BEHAR: Apparently one of your children I think it was Lulu, she made you a card for your birthday.
CHUA: Both of them.
BEHAR: Both of them did.
CHUA: I rejected both of them.
BEHAR: You did not like the birthday card. You felt that she hadn`t put in enough time making the birthday card. Am I right?
CHUA: Yes. Joy, I really --
BEHAR: Are you ashamed of that moment also or not?
CHUA: No, no. That moment has to be -- and my daughter wrote an op- ed defending that moment. She published something in the "New York Post".
Here`s the deal. The way that it`s being spun it`s like oh, this woman took this carefully handmade card and said, it`s not good enough. Not the case.
This story cracks my kids up. They came, everyone had forgotten my birthday. My husband took me -- he had forgotten. He like made a restaurant reservation at the last minute, it was a real dump. We were all cranky. My husband says pull out your birthday surprises. They had each like taken a piece of paper, I don`t know. Like a piece of the menu or something, or just a piece of paper, folded it in half, made a smiley face.
And it is true, I looked at it. And you know, you have to know that my kids, in our household, we are outrageous. We laugh at each other. We`re very, very close. We`re very tight.
And she -- and I looked at it and I said Lulu, that`s not good enough. You know, when your birthday comes I spend weeks planning it. I bake you the cake, I put little penguins on it. I used my whole salary to get a magician for you. And I deserve more than this.
And you know what, what they said afterwards, they said they felt better doing a good job. I mean, they`re really good, they`re like, Sophia said in public --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: But you know what --
CHUA: -- she`s like I was busted.
BEHAR: -- I have to disagree with you a little bit because I think it`s -- that story sounds like it was more about you than it was them. It`s like guilt-tripping the kids. You didn`t make a good enough birthday card. That`s how it sounds.
CHUA: You know what, I -- I -- this could be a cultural thing. You know because I was taught to be very grateful to my parents. And you know what, I guess I felt that my parents earned that from me. They earned my gratitude.
And my husband actually agrees with you. My husband doesn`t feel that kids should be -- it`s -- it`s not so great -- like they`re not so indebted to their parents. But that`s not the way I was raised but I don`t think it was all about me.
Here`s what I think, I think you are not raising a good kid who is going to have good character and good integrity and be able to grow up to be somebody that can have good relationships if you raise a spoiled entitled kid.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, we agree with that.
CHUA: I don`t want --
BEHAR: Well, everyone agrees with that.
(CROSS TALK)
CHUA: -- well I don`t know -- but a lot of our kids --
BEHAR: But -- but you`re reputation is that you`re taking it to the extreme and that for -- for instance when you burnt -- you threatened to burn your daughters stuffed animals and cancel her bar-mitzvah party?
(CROSS TALK)
CHUA: That came up -- yes ok, that one is such a joke.
BEHAR: Oh that`s a joke. See, here`s the problem --
CHUA: My daughter said that.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: -- with this book, Amy, because we don`t get what`s the -- what the joke is, and what the joke is not. Maybe it`s the writing, you know? I mean --
CHUA: Maybe. Somebody -- you know, hey Joy, I have to tell you, it`s 50/50. I get e-mails from people who`ve read the book and maybe it`s like a cultural thing, like if you grow up with the kid of immigrants because I have like had a Nigerian Americans, Polish Americans, Irish immigrants. They`re like I was on the floor, they even got the eggs up, they were laughing so hard. And other people are reading it straight. So it is a funny tone. I mean, yes that`s probably my fault. I don`t know --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Write another book, but it was lovely to have you and good luck with selling this one. Ok.
CHUA: Thanks for giving me a chance.
BEHAR: Sure.
Ok, the book is called "Battle Hymn of the Tiger Mother." We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, J.Lo and Steven Tyler make their long-awaited "American Idol" debut.
And the lovely ladies of "Hot in Cleveland" are back again tonight this time to talk about their hit show.
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: My next guest has a lot in common with my last guest, the "Tiger Mom" Amy Chua. They`re both Chinese, their husbands are both Jewish --
(CROSS TALK)
CONNIE CHUNG, TELEVISION JOURNALIST: Right.
BEHAR: -- and they were both raised by a "Tiger Mom" and they`re both horrified by the octomom fetish video. Joining me now is the fabulous Connie Chung.
CHUNG: The octomom -- the what?
BEHAR: Well, the octomom has a fetish video --
CHUNG: Oh --
BEHAR: She`s whipping a guy in a -- in a vomit and diapers.
CHUNG: No.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: Can I see it?
BEHAR: Well, yes, hang around, we`re going to show it later.
CHUNG: Ok. Thanks, Joy.
BEHAR: So what did you think of the interview I just did. Have -- the way she raises her child -- she now says that this is a satire.
CHUNG: Yes, yes. You know.
BEHAR: I mean --
CHUNG: Well you -- well, honestly I think that the firestorm was created by the fact that the "Wall Street Journal" took one sexy excerpt -- and she does apparently have a whole lot more to say in the memoir. It`s not a parenting book. I get it --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: -- you know I totally get it.
BEHAR: But some of the things she says about the way Asian parents raise their kids has tremendous validity. We all know --
(CROSS TALK)
CHUNG: Oh yes.
BEHAR: -- they`re better on the violin than other kids --
CHUNG: Yes.
BEHAR: -- and a lot of that stuff and they`ve -- they`re achievers in school.
CHUNG: Absolutely, it`s all true. And -- I mean, my parents were born and raised in China. I have four older sisters, all born in China.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: And I look at this --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Where were you born?
CHUNG: In Washington, D.C., I`m the only one born in the United States.
BEHAR: I see.
CHUNG: So basically, I have four older sisters who are very bossy. So I had five tiger moms.
BEHAR: Well, did they -- did they -- were they strict? All these women around you, we`re they are like, you have to play the piano? Do you play the piano?
CHUNG: Oh, no, no, no, we didn`t have enough money to get piano lessons, so I mean, there was no piano lessons for us. Except actually one sister had an -- we had a neighbor and her -- you know the neighbor`s name was who thought her piano.
BEHAR: What?
CHUNG: Mrs. Maybe.
BEHAR: Mrs. Maybe. That`s -- Mrs. Maybe.
CHUNG: Yes. But it has nothing to do with anything.
BEHAR: But you didn`t --
CHUNG: But the fact is --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: I had a dentist named Dr. Tusk.
CHUNG: No.
BEHAR: I`m just saying, you know these things happen in life. Yes.
CHUNG: Ok, I know, I know.
BEHAR: Yes but --
CHUNG: So -- I mean, my -- my mother was so busy you know raising five daughters, she didn`t have a whole lot of time to be a tiger mom.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: And money to play the piano lessons so --
(CROSS TALK)
CHUNG: No but I mean --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: I mean, if you really interested in a kid playing an instrument, there`s the triangle, the kazoo, the comb.
CHUNG: Yes, ok, fine. Fine, I`ll pick it up later. But my niece, my oldest niece, my favorite niece --
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: She`s the daughter of my oldest sister.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: Nina is the daughter of Josephine. Ok, Nina was telling me that Josephine used to do all that stuff to her. She -- if she didn`t get straight A`s, she got straight A`s all the way up until eighth grade.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: And she -- when she got a "B" in art, you know, my sister was very mad. Nina went out for cheerleading behind her mother`s back. When she made it she was -- her mom was very angry. I mean, you know, she -- we all sewed and we all made our clothes. And so Nina, Josephine made Nina fix the zipper eight times because she wasn`t doing it right.
So I mean, my --
BEHAR: Josephine was Chinese?
CHUNG: Yes.
BEHAR: What kind of name is Josephine? That`s my name.
CHUNG: Is it?
BEHAR: Yes my real name is Josephine.
CHUNG: No kidding.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: Which because when they came to the United States, all the girls had to get an American names.
BEHAR: Oh I know, yes, yes.
CHUNG: So Josephine --
BEHAR: I see, so they gave her Josephine.
CHUNG: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How unfortunate for her. They could have given her Sue, they had to give her Josephine, what a tragic story that is. I mean, it`s bad enough you know -- well, anyway.
CHUNG: But no my mother was --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Do you -- did you have a social life? Were you allowed to hang out with friends?
CHUNG: Oh well, oh yes, but I was very, very shy. You know, because all my sisters were so bossy that I`ve never -- you know, they just told me what to do. And I mean, I didn`t -- I wasn`t allowed to go on sleepovers.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: My first sleepover was when I started dating.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: How old were you when you lost your virginity?
CHUNG: It was sometime -- I would say, in college.
BEHAR: In college yes. So you were old compared to some of these chicks, these girls now.
CHUNG: Absolutely. But do you ask me that question and did I answer?
BEHAR: I just did, yes, I did. You did, yes.
CHUNG: What am I, stupid? I could have been lying.
BEHAR: No, no, no, you could have been lying.
CHUNG: No.
BEHAR: But I don`t think you were because you answered it from your gut.
CHUNG: Yes.
BEHAR: So you are not lying.
CHUNG: Well, no, but I hesitated -- I hesitated I could have been thinking.
BEHAR: You could have been.
CHUNG: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. Now wait, do you think now that -- do you think that --
CHUNG: What`s the matter Joy?
BEHAR: -- do you think that western parents don`t push their kids enough?
CHUNG: No, they don`t.
BEHAR: They don`t; so you agree with that?
CHUNG: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: I mean, I think there`s a whole other concept. But I totally get you know the Chinese concept, really.
BEHAR: Yes.
CHUNG: And my -- my parents are actually -- I would try to be my father`s son because he didn`t have any sons, you know. And in Chinese tradition, the son is the most important one.
BEHAR: Why you? You had four sisters, why couldn`t they be the number one son, number two son.
CHUNG: I know, believe me, they are tough as nails, they are in many ways the son as well.
BEHAR: Do you think Jewish parents, your husband is Jewish? Maury Povich --
CHUNG: Yes. How did you know that?
BEHAR: Because I know Maury.
CHUNG: Do you think Jewish parents are just as extreme. Because, you know, they allow play dates, the Jewish parents, but they have them catered. Do you think they`re just as strict as Chinese?
CHUNG: Yes, I do. I do. I think Maury was brought up hard work, same thing, just like me. It`s hard work. Not entitled to anything.
BEHAR: We love Maury.
CHUNG: We do.
BEHAR: We love you, Connie, thanks for doing this. It was so much fun --
CHUNG: Joy, it`s over.
BEHAR: I know, it`s very fast. It`s like your sex life with Maury. We`ll be right back.
(CROSSTALK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: It`s a reunion 23 years in the making. In 1987 a 19-day-old infant named Carlina White was kidnapped from a New York City hospital. The baby`s heart-broken mother searched for her but never found her.
That all changed on January 4th, when Carlina, now a grown woman, called her mother and said she was her missing daughter. And now the two have been reunited.
Here now to discuss this remarkable tale is president and CEO of the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children, Ernie Allen. Welcome to the show, Ernie.
ERNIE ALLEN, CEO, NATIONAL CENTER FOR MISSING AND EXPLOITED CHILDREN: Thanks, Joy. Glad to be with you.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, this all came about because Carlina White, who is now 23 years old, grew suspicious when the woman who raised her couldn`t provide her with a birth certificate, is that right? And tell me what happened next after that.
ALLEN: Well, there were a number of things. At one point she decided that none of her family members looked like her, and there was the issue of a birth certificate. This is a very strong, smart, tenacious young woman, and she set out to establish that she wasn`t who she thought she was.
She called us at the National Center on December 22nd and said, I don`t think I`m who I`m supposed to be. I might be a missing person. We set out to try to find out who she was.
BEHAR: She had a nagging feeling that she was in the wrong family? We`ve all had that feeling.
ALLEN: Absolutely. Absolutely.
BEHAR: But, how can you explain that? Is it a typical sort of feeling? I know a lot of people who say, I`m adopted because they hate their parents, you know what I mean?
Is there something genetic, something that happened to her that was different from other people?
ALLEN: Well, I think part of it is that these were suspicions that grew over time and she pursued them. She went to our Web site, missingkids.com and looked at images of real missing children, long-term missing children. She called us and asked for help.
Ultimately she was right. Her mother never gave up hope and never stopped searching for 23 years. We think they`re both heroes.
BEHAR: That`s interesting that she did that. In 1987 she was taken out of a New York City hospital by some woman posing as a nurse. That is the woman who raised her?
ALLEN: That`s right. And the investigation is proceeding regarding that woman. Clearly, that was a crime; that was kidnap. It was stranger abduction.
The good news is, she`s young. She has been reconnected with her biological family. She is strong and smart, and I think has a great life in front of her.
BEHAR: You know what, thank you for the information. I mean, how often does this happen, really? It`s not that common for somebody to find their parent when they`ve been kidnapped, is that right?
ALLEN: Joy, it is very rare. But we like to say it`s not unprecedented. If you think about Jaycee Dugard last year, abducted by a rapist, kept for 18 years. Shawn Hornbeck in Missouri, kept for four years.
BEHAR: Elizabeth Smart.
ALLEN: Absolutely, nine months. Our message to the public is that there is hope in these cases and we believe there are more of these long- term missing kids out there alive that we need to bring home.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much, Ernie. Thank you.
ALLEN: Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: We`ll be back after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Well, the 10th season of "American Idol" debuted last night, and brand new judges Jennifer Lopez and Steven Tyler had their first crack at the contestants during the audition rounds. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEVEN TYLER, SINGER: Oh, baby, you got so much of this and the drama and all that, but you got no notes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Jennifer, Steven, what do you guys think?
TYLER: That`s a no.
JENNIFER LOPEZ, ACTRESS/SINGER: No. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you.
LOPEZ: Oh, God. Oh, this is awful. Oh, my God, I hate this.
TYLER: It`s not a good feeling, is it?
LOPEZ: Why did I sign up for this?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Man up, Jennifer. OK?
With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news are comedian Jo Koy. Laurieann Gibson, creative director and choreographer, and Joe Levy, editor in chief of "Maxim" magazine.
So Joe, first of all, are these judges taking all the fun out of rejection?
(LAUGHTER)
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM: No, I think that was most of the women that I dated in the `90s.
(LAUGHTER)
LEVY: Well, you know, I will say this, I will say this. Steven Tyler was the one who said no last night, and he was so nice and smiling about it. And everything he did, he said, you`re wonderful, you`re wonderful. You can`t sing. And you know, we do miss Simon saying, it`s dreadful, it`s enough, stop, you should never sing again.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: We miss that edge.
BEHAR: Do you miss Simon, Jo?
JO KOY, COMEDIAN: I miss everything about Simon. That was the best. Just you suck. And then words we never heard before, you know what I mean? He would say words like stablountis (ph). I`m like what is stablountis? It means you suck, now leave.
LEVY: Are you a vampire? What happened to you?
BEHAR: The British accent...
KOY: The British accent just made it...
BEHAR: Just makes it worse.
KOY: ... yes, the bitchiness even better. You know, I loved it.
BEHAR: You`ve been a judge on "Skating with the Stars," I understand.
LAURIEANN GIBSON, CREATIVE DIRECTOR: Right, so, it`s only week one. Listen. They`re coming from a different perspective. You have to understand. Steven Tyler, amazing icon. Jennifer Lopez, superstar singer/performer. So it`s week one. If she continues with it, yes, then you slay her. But what they don`t want to be is dream killers the first week out. You have to respect it, you have got to give it a B.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s interesting.
GIBSON: Because what you can`t do, when he said, OK, listen, how many times has Simon been wrong? Don`t call it a comeback. Jennifer Hudson sings her face off. So them being artists, they`re going to give you a second before they kill your dream.
BEHAR: All right. Well, you know, as you mentioned Steven Tyler, he certainly seem to be enjoying the female contestants. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TYLER: Sexy. Where is your pitchfork, you little devil? Angela. Whoo! Yes!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes.
TYLER: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, Steven.
TYLER: Ow, please.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I wasn`t sure if I was watching "American Idol" or "To Catch a Predator."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Joe, some of these girls are really young, you know, he`s 62 years old. I think it`s inappropriate. What do you think?
LEVY: I don`t think Steven Tyler has ever made a secret of the fact that he is a letch. He`s been one in his songs. He`s been one on stage. He`s always played this character. There`s a weird thing that happened where he came off as a mix between a 62-year-old grandpa, you know, a Yidisha oldekaka (ph), and a horny 20-year-old. It was this weird mix of, like, you know, you`re doing wonderful with your singing and you`re very nice when you move the tuckus. And rrrr!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Do you think he`s hot?
GIBSON: Yes. Hello.
BEHAR: She thinks he`s hot.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He`s overbotoxed, OK? That face could stop a clock.
KOY: Joy, you`ve got to -- when you want Steve and you look at him, the way he`s dressed, the way he looks, you don`t sit and look at him and go, oh, this is a gentleman. You don`t do that, it`s like those are the things that are supposed to come out of his mouth, saying I want you. I`m 62.
BEHAR: But why dirty old man? That`s what springs to mind. These girls are 17 years old, 17, 18.
KOY: That`s what 62-year-old rock stars do, they`re creepy like that.
(LAUGHTER)
KOY: They hand out VIP backstage passes like candy.
(CROSSTALK)
GIBSON: I mean, some of the contestants coming in there with their panties on might warrant a reaction. I`m just saying, don`t come to the audition in a slinky dress, honey, (inaudible). Let your voice do the talking.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So they are responsible for his lechery?
GIBSON: I mean, what I`m going to say is, he`s a rock star. I`m not going to throw him under the bus. I`m going to say, blondie, you came in there with a short dress, searching for a reason for (inaudible)...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And so he couldn`t control himself.
GIBSON: I mean, he`s a man. If I flaunt my beautiful chocolate boob out today, which could happen.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which I hope you do.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, let`s go, TMZ now obtained this -- you`re going to love this story, wait -- watch this. TMZ obtained this fetish video of Octomom whipping a grown man in a diaper and a bonnet. From now on, I`m calling her mominatrix. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Spanky, spanky! Harder, harder.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You want it harder?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Harder.
(CROSSTALK)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oh, wow, the Octomom really sold out. I missed the integrity of her earlier work. Jo, can you imagine anyone being turned on by that, or is it just a joke?
KOY: That`s just weird to me. The weird thing is, which one of the kids is she getting the diaper from? Which one of the eight kids did she get that big-ass diaper from?
BEHAR: I can`t -- can you get that image out of your head ever, Joe? Close your eyes. You can picture it still, right?
LEVY: No, I am a little -- here`s what I`m upset about. The lighting is really bad for porn. When she`s back lit there, you can barely see anything. I expect more out of my pornography. And also don`t ask me how I know, that`s not how you use that whip.
BEHAR: Oh, really? What was she -- she was doing...
LEVY: She was holding -- she wasn`t letting it loose, she was holding both ends and like doubling it up. It makes a nice sound that way, but it`s not effective.
BEHAR: All right.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, moving on. OK, now this story is fun too. Joan Rivers was on my show last night to talk about being banned from Fox for trashing Sarah Palin. And she had a few choice words for the dropout governor. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MELISSA RIVERS: We were uninvited...
BEHAR: Where?
MELISSA RIVERS: "Fox and Friends."
BEHAR: Oh, "Fox and Friends."
JOAN RIVERS: So now we call it "Fox and Former Friends."
They called and they said to our PR lady. She said why? And they said, because of what was said about Ms. Palin, because she`s a Fox contributor.
BEHAR: I guess. She`s a Nazi, I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, that comment caused a lot of stir. A lot of sturm and drung, as they say in Dusseldorf. Is this going too far for Joan or come on?
LEVY: Is there going too far for Joan? Her whole career is going too far.
BEHAR: Right.
Well, I mean, people are on her case. Her new show is about to premiere. Do you think she`s -- just drumming up some ratings, maybe?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, that`s all.
BEHAR: Once you drop the Nazi bomb, everyone picks up on it, I noticed. This other guy, this Democratic congressman, Steve Cohen, he`s also come under fire for comparing the GOP`s lies about health care to Nazi propaganda. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEVE COHEN, (D), TENNESSEE: They say it`s a government takeover of health care. A big lie, just like Goebbels. You say it enough, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, you repeat the lie, and eventually people believe it. The Germans said enough about the Jews and the people believed it, and you had the Holocaust.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Oy, blood libel, now this. Haven`t the Jews suffered enough? Do we have to keep going over this again and again and again?
LEVY: Also, I`m tired of everybody going to the Nazis, what about all the other people who oppressed the Jews?
BEHAR: Exactly.
LEVY: What about all the other evil in the world? Why should we always -- Stalin`s not getting the credit he deserves, the Spanish inquisition is not getting the credit they deserve.
BEHAR: That`s true. That`s true. And then there`s also, you know, Pol Pot, who did -- he did a little damage himself, Pol Pot. You`re half Asian, what do you say about that?
(LAUGHTER)
KOY: I`m just happy you put me on this whole Asian-themed show. I`m so...
(CROSSTALK)
KOY: And I feel like I have to squint my eyes even more just to -- after Connie, now Jo Koy.
BEHAR: You know what, you`re complaining, but the Asian community is always complaining there aren`t enough Asians on television.
(CROSSTALK)
KOY: ... you have three of them.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Give me some credit for this.
KOY: There`s kids in the back making shoes, too. They`ve got a little -- it`s a whole Asian theme today at Joy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What about this, Laurieann? What do you think? Is there a difference between a congressman using the Nazi metaphor -- or analogy rather -- and comedian Joan Rivers?
GIBSON: No. I mean, leave Joan alone. You know what you`re getting. I mean, come on, at the end of the day, if the shoe doesn`t fit, then don`t wear it, Palin.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Or if they bind your feet.
KOY: Or if they paint your toenails.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That was great.
BEHAR: Joe, tell the truth, forget about the whole thing, if you don`t say something like the Nazis did this, or the Pol Pot did that, nobody pays attention to you.
LEVY: It`s absolutely overkill, it`s rhetorical overkill. I mean, at least what Joan Rivers is doing is referring back -- it`s a callback in a way to Sarah Palin, who got herself into this mess by using or misusing the phrase blood libel. But then when you`re on the floor of Congress and you are comparing the Republicans to the big lie, to the Holocaust, look, that`s ridiculous, it`s absolute rhetorical overkill.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know we all agree on that.
KOY: One thing, though, Joy? If it wasn`t for that comment, I didn`t know she had a TV show coming out.
(LAUGHTER)
KOY: I had no idea.
BEHAR: Mission accomplished.
KOY: So she`s a genius.
BEHAR: Mission accomplished.
KOY: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, Joe, before we go, I know that you have "Maxim" magazine, you have an interesting survey in there.
LEVY: We did a survey with partner Yahoo Shine, it`s a women`s portal on Yahoo, men and women dating in the current era. And what did we find out? We found out that social networking, no big surprise, plays an important role. People, 40 percent of them, are going to friend someone on Facebook before they date. So keep your profile clean. But a mere 24 percent admit to spying electronically on a boyfriend or girlfriend. So I think some of those people are lying.
BEHAR: They`re lying. They`re lying.
LEVY: Everybody does it.
KOY: I do it.
BEHAR: He does it.
GIBSON: I don`t.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, you guys, OK, you were terrific. If you`re in New York, catch Jo Koy at Caroline`s Thursday through Sunday. He`s really funny. Back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: "Hot in Cleveland" is one of the hottest shows on cable. And it stars four fun and familiar actresses who know how to handle a good time. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VALERIE BERTINELLI, ACTRESS: There are a ton of things we could do to raise money, OK? We could have a benefit or we could have an estate sale.
BETTY WHITE, ACTRESS: In Cleveland, they`re called garage sales.
JANE LEEVES, ACTRESS: Ew!
WHITE: You girls have to figure out some way to get money.
WENDIE MALICK, ACTRESS: Oh, bless you, Elka. To think of me in this time of need.
WHITE: For me, you idiot.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The new season of "Hot in Cleveland" airs Wednesdays at 10:00 p.m. on TV Land. With me now are three of its stars, Valerie Bertinelli, Jane Leeves and Wendie Malick. I feel like I`m living with these two.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: I feel like we`re on a game show.
BEHAR: So you guys are having a lot of fun on that show, aren`t you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s criminal.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It`s not too tough.
BEHAR: You love it. Is it your favorite so far, Wendie, because you`ve done other shows?
MALICK: You know, they`re so different, it`s like comparing your children. But I have to say, for this, at this stage in my life, this is the sweetest place to be with these fabulous broads.
BEHAR: It is nice.
MALICK: It really is great to have been in the company of amazing...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You all are beautiful, and Betty White too is in the show. It sort of says something about older women on television, you know?
BERTINELLI: We`re not dead yet. Don`t put us out to pasture, we can still be funny and smart.
BEHAR: There`s a market for it. And (inaudible).
BERTINELLI: Because most of the women across America are -- our age, are the baby boomers, aren`t they? So we want to see ourselves on television.
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: I`m sort of surprised that it`s not just women our age that are watching it, it`s young people as well. Young men.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: And straight men.
BERTINELLI: Straight men too...
BEHAR: Straight men are watching it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Straight men watch "The View," but they always say, well, my wife insists that I watch it. Yes, right, you like it. You know you do.
But I just think it`s great, you know, I mean, not since the "Golden Girls," really, has there been a show with just I don`t think with three women again like you, right? It`s been a while ago.
LEEVES: It`s been very empowering for me, because I`m about to turn 50 in a couple of months, and I`ve got this trailblazer here, and this -- can I say...
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: She`s 60.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: I think we need to start owning our place in this universe.
LEEVES: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Well, you know what it is, Wendie, you can`t hide it anymore, because it`s all over the Internet.
MALICK: The first thing they say about you whenever they write about you is your age. And I think for so long, women have been really like, oh, don`t tell anybody, if they know I`m never going to work again or something like that. And this show has been sort of this great affirmation that we`re all on this journey, we all keep reinventing ourselves. It ain`t over till it`s over. And Betty has been sort of the great champion of all of this. She`s been so amazing.
BEHAR: The show is known for its cameos.
BERTINELLI: It`s getting to be that way, isn`t it?
BEHAR: Right? People are saying that. Now, what do you think about the following for cameos, give me your opinion. Miley Cyrus?
MALICK: No.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: Overexposed.
BEHAR: The Octomom?
BERTINELLI: Oh, please God, no.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: She`s probably too busy.
BEHAR: How about Madeleine Albright?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: She`s funny.
BEHAR: She`s hilarious.
MALICK: I really like her.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How about the Olsen twin, just the one who purges?
(LAUGHTER)
MALICK: I don`t think we have a place for her.
BEHAR: No? OK. How about Sarah Palin? Would you like to have Sarah Palin on?
MALICK: I would not care for it.
BEHAR: Why not? She`s a good actress, she`s always acting.
MALICK: Tina Fey would be fun.
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: And she does a better Sarah Palin than Sarah Palin, so...
BEHAR: I know, she really does. Now, you`re...
BERTINELLI: (inaudible) Sarah Palin on because you just want her to shut the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up.
BEHAR: Yeah. Well, let`s talk about your wedding for a moment.
BERTINELLI: OK.
BEHAR: Your ex-husband, rocker Eddie Van Halen was at the wedding.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: I love that.
BERTINELLI: Thank you.
BEHAR: I love that. So what, did Tom say, let`s invite Eddie?
BERTINELLI: Listen, he and Tom are -- when Ed can`t get ahold of me, or he doesn`t even try anymore, he always texts Tom or calls Tom. Most people do.
BEHAR: Really?
MALICK: Yes, we`ve all learned that`s the only way to find her.
BEHAR: Did you all go to the wedding?
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: She`s known Ed forever too.
LEEVES: I`ve known Ed because I`ve known Valerie for 19 years or something like that.
BEHAR: Anyway, how long -- how long were you married to Eddie?
BERTINELLI: 20 years.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: We got separated October of `01.
BEHAR: You were kids when you got married.
BERTINELLI: I was 20.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: I got married at 20, I got married at 50. I`ll get married at 50 any day, because I just feel like I`m a little bit smarter, I know that there are certain...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well...
BERTINELLI: Well, yeah. There are certain words you can`t use with someone you love. You have to really be careful of your words, because once they`re out there, they`re out there forever.
BEHAR: That`s true, you have to watch.
BERTINELLI: And you can`t take them back. And so I would never say anything that would be hurtful to him, or at least not intentionally.
BEHAR: Right.
BERTINELLI: So I think about what I say more. With Ed, I was stupid and young, and I would say hurtful things to hurt him.
BEHAR: Like what was one of the hurtful things you said?
BERTINELLI: Oh, geez.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Like you`re an idiot? Did you say that?
BERTINELLI: Worse than that.
BEHAR: I hate you?
LEEVES: Well, you know, the great thing is, you guys are both delightful people. You know, I`ve known you both forever, and you`re both lovely, lovely people. And you were just too young.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about Kelsey and Camille? I know you worked with Kelsey. I mean, Camille is saying that was -- he`d put lady`s clothes on? What`s up with that? Did you ever see him in panties?
MALICK: I have no idea, I was never in his bedroom. He was very, very nice. And I used to see him -- the only thing I can see about her, I used to see her at PC Green`s, shopping. That`s all I know about Camille.
BEHAR: She said that he likes to put lady`s clothes on once in a while. That doesn`t make you a bad person. I`m just saying. I mean, Cary Grant used to wear ladies underwear, did you know that? Yes, I read that. And when they asked him why you did that, he said they`re more comfortable.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: ... little things like this leak out so she gets up to 50 million?
BEHAR: She`s going to get a lot of money from Kelsey, isn`t she?
BERTINELLI: I don`t know. I`m on team Kyle (ph).
BEHAR: You`re on team Kelsey?
BERTINELLI: Kyle.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: Beverly Hills, housewives, real.
BEHAR: Who`s Kyle?
BERTINELLI: Kyle is the one she`s like been -- oh, never mind.
Anybody else out there watching Beverly Hills...?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you remember their names. That`s what`s crazy.
BERTINELLI: I`m sad that way.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Just a minute. We`re not done yet.
(CROSSTALK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the cast of "Hot in Cleveland."
Come on, Valerie.
BERTINELLI: Well, I thought Miley Cyrus could be her daughter. But then it would be like -- like it`s fun like to (inaudible), and like I really was like, having a really good time, and like, it wasn`t me actually smoking the bong, and there wasn`t really marijuana in it, but it`s like, it`s like really fun.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, I love you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Here`s a couple of other people, I don`t know if you`d like them to do a cameo on the show. Justin Bieber. What about him?
BERTINELLI: He sang to Betty.
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: He sang "Happy Birthday" last night.
BERTINELLI: He could be your son.
LEEVES: Oh, my God, that would be hilarious.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: You did have a son when you were 15?
LEEVES: Oh, right, OK.
BEHAR: You did have a son when you were 15?
LEEVES: On the show. Not really.
BEHAR: Oh, on the show. And...
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: I have got a 10- and a 7-year-old.
BEHAR: Are they here?
LEEVES: Yes, they`re in New York.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They`re playing in the park.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: A couple of Twitter questions. Is it rough always having just to be with Betty White`s sex appeal, someone wants to know?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, it is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It is, yes.
MALICK: She`s the only blond in the cast.
BERTINELLI: She glows.
MALICK: She sucks up a lot of light.
(LAUGHTER)
BERTINELLI: These are all things we told her.
MALICK: Yes, she knows.
BEHAR: OK, how about Hugh Hefner in a cameo?
BERTINELLI: Is he still alive?
LEEVES: He just got married.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: ... just got engaged to a 24-year-old.
MALICK: Oh yes. She, yes, OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: She`s marrying him because he`s so sexy.
BEHAR: That`s right, she married him for the sex.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: I don`t think he could handle the words.
BEHAR: Hugh Hefner?
(CROSSTALK)
BERTINELLI: Has he really fooled himself into thinking a 26-year-old is going to marry him because he`s not rich?
BEHAR: Yes, he has.
BERTINELLI: OK.
BEHAR: There`s nothing wrong with that.
BERTINELLI: No, nothing wrong with it. It`s just that, great granddaughter maybe, age?
BEHAR: I know. It`s like great or great-great at this point, I know.
BERTINELLI: I`m sorry, I apologize.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Excuse me, you`re on television.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
LEEVES: (inaudible) she has to carry her date in and put him in his wheelchair.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How about Schwarzenegger, who just ruined the state of California? What about him?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, God.
LEEVES: What could he be, though? Come up with a good part for him.
BERTINELLI: I know, right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He could get dressed up in ladies clothes...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I can see him in a prom dress, couldn`t you?
LEEVES: Absolutely.
MALICK: Why would he be in Cleveland, one wonders?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I don`t know.
OK, here`s one more question from Twitter. Does Jane still tango?
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: She dances up a storm.
LEEVES: Oh, I do.
(CROSSTALK)
LEEVES: I tangoed on stage once.
BEHAR: Let me see you get on the table and tango.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Come on.
BERTINELLI: She`s a dancer, but what are you known for mainly on our set?
LEEVES: Oh, falling over all the time.
BERTINELLI: Yes.
BEHAR: Why don`t you go on "Dancing with the Stars?"
LEEVES: Oh, no.
BEHAR: Oh, come on.
LEEVES: I`m too scared and too old.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: She gets hurt a lot.
LEEVES: I get hurt a lot.
BERTINELLI: The first week filming the episode, she came in with this huge bruise. She fell over trying to get the dog out.
BEHAR: So you`re a klutz.
LEEVES: Yes, I`m a klutz.
BEHAR: Florence Henderson. Does that name ring a bell? Saying you`re too old?
LEEVES: Yes, no, no, right, yes.
BEHAR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
MALICK: She was in that...
BEHAR: "The Brady Bunch?"
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We know what you were doing in the `70s.
BEHAR: She could do a drug PSA. OK, the new season of "Hot in Cleveland" airs Wednesday at 10:00 p.m. on TV Land. Good night, everybody. Say good night.
BERTINELLI: Good night, everybody.
LEEVES: Good night.
MALICK: Good night.
END
