Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Bullied by a "Wolf Pack"; Super Nanny vs. Hot Sauce Mom
Aired February 01, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: I want to show you some really horrifying video. 13-year-old Nadin Khoury was on his way home from school when he was jumped by seven other kids.
Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(13-YEAR-OLD NADIN KHOURY BEING ATTACKED BY TEENS)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, six of the attackers were dragged out of school yesterday in handcuffs and the 7th teen was arrested this morning. One of these boys was brazen enough to record the beating on his cell phone.
I am joined now by a very brave Nadin Khoury, along with his mother Rebecca Khoury. Also with us is Dr. Phil.
Ok. Rebecca, let me start with you. Describe what happened to your son as he walked home from school January 11th?
REBECCA KHOURY, MOTHER OF NADIN KHOURY: Well, he came home, January 11th; it was in the morning. A lady dropped him off from her car. I mean I don`t know who the lady is. I don`t know where`s she`s from.
The only thing I heard her say was, "Your son got jumped." I said "What?" She said, "He got jumped." And I seen Nadin getting out the car and he was hopping, walking towards me and I said, "What`s wrong, Nadin?" He said, "Mommy, I got jumped by the boys in the school." I said, "What boys?"
And he actually pointed at one and I had -- I went after that one, I called the cop and they came and got that one interviewed and he, you know, start pointing at everyone that were involved.
He said he was not there. He wouldn`t have stood there and watched the whole thing happen. After seeing the horrifying videotape, he was actually part of the beating that they did to my son.
BEHAR: Nadin, why did they attack you? Do you know -- is there any reason or was it just because they`re just bad boys?
NADIN KHOURY, BULLYING VICTIM: They had no reason I can think of. No reason of which I think they did it.
BEHAR: There`s no reason that you can think of. This is not the first time you were attacked, right? Tell me about the other times.
N. KHOURY: The other time, it was their friends and one of the times when I was walking up the street to go catch the bus. They summon their friends to come fight me one-on-one in the alley.
BEHAR: What do you know about these boys? Do you know who they are?
N. KHOURY: Yes.
BEHAR: You do? They`re in school with you?
N. KHOURY: Yes.
BEHAR: so they just picked on you, for no reason?
N. KHOURY: For no reason. They just pick on anyone what`s smaller than them. Everybody and anybody in the class that`s smaller than them, they`ll make fun of.
BEHAR: You know Rebecca, you fled Liberia, Africa in the year 2000 to escape civil war and seek a better life in America and I`m so unhappy that this had to happen to your son in this country. I feel very sad for you.
What do you think will happen to these boys?
R. KHOURY: I just want them to pay for what they did. I want to get out there so they can know that it is not right to just go around and treat other kids like an animal because you know, they can`t speak up for themselves or they`re young. It`s not fair.
I`m so happy that, you know, they caught --
BEHAR: They caught them. Yes.
R. KHOURY: Yes, they caught them.
BEHAR: Thank you.
R. KHOURY: And get them for it. I thank them so much.
BEHAR: That`s right. We`re very happy that they caught them also. Good luck, kiddo.
R. KHOURY: Thank you so much. Thank you.
BEHAR: All right. Ok. Now I want to bring in Dr. Phil. Hi, Dr. Phil. How are you?
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL SHOW": Hey, Joy, good to talk to you.
BEHAR: You know, this sounds like more than bullying. It seems like outright assault on this boy. Why is this stuff happening?
MCGRAW: Joy, clearly, it`s criminal. And look, how many children are we going to have to bury? How many kids are going to have to terrorized to the point that they miss school, they just lose their adolescence, before we all stand up in unison and say, look, enough is enough here? This has got to stop.
And you know, so these seven boys have been arrested. They`ll be prosecuted and I`m sure they`ll get some time in juvie if they`re found guilty. No doubt about that.
But that`s not the solution here, Joy. This is not going to change until we, as I say, collectively stand up and say enough is enough and we empower the teachers, we empower the authorities with the curriculums necessary to teach kids that this is not ok. This is not ok and we have to teach them that it`s not.
BEHAR: It`s interesting that this other little thug videotaped the beating. What do you make of that?
MCGRAW: Well, I mean we have come into such a narcissistic generation at this point with YouTube and the advent of all these social networking sites and every phone being a camera. I mean people think they have to have an audience from everything they do from brushing their teeth to things that would normally draw attention and that`s just absolutely ridiculous.
But the fact that they are so brazen, what this tells you is that they don`t expect accountability. And Joy, where are these kids` parents? Every bully has parents and it`s their parents` job to know if their kids are out terrorizing others.
When this happened, there should have been seven parents or seven sets of parents on the front door of those people`s house ringing the doorbell saying, "I am sorry, how can we make this ok? How can we take this off of you and say we`re sorry and apologize." And here`s our kid, you know, pulled up by the ear, saying they`re sorry and they`re going to be accountable for this.
BEHAR: I know.
MCGRAW: These bullies don`t just need punishment, they need help as well.
BEHAR: Well, you know that brings me to -- how do these kids develop into these little bullies? How does this happen? Where does it go wrong in their upbringing, for example?
MCGRAW: Well, here`s what we know Joy. And there have been a lot of myths in the past about bullies are really insecure and so there`s just, it`s false sense of superiority. But our most recent research tells us that that`s actually not the case.
These kids are often precocious; they`re often larger, stronger and very self-confident. You know it`s been said that power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. And when you`re bigger and stronger and you can impose your will on someone else and there`s no check and balance system, it`s too much for these kids to handle.
We know that at home, that bullies often come from homes where there was violence in the home. They`re either bullied by a parent or they see parents bullying each other. They grow up in that culture where they learn this is just an ok way to express yourself; and it absolutely is not ok.
We need to train the parents. We need to give the teachers the curriculum. And this doesn`t need to be something you do in assembly at the first of the year. This needs to be an ongoing dialogue where bullies just learn that they will not be accepted. If everybody bands together and makes the bullies the out casts, then they`ll stop doing that and become part of the whole.
BEHAR: That would be good. That`s a hard thing to do because these kids band together.
But you know, again -- you know, I was bullied as a kid just because I was whatever, but it was mostly like threatening me or pushing me. This particular video shows much more aggressive violence. I mean, it`s not just the run of the mill bullying we`re talking about here. These kids need to be in jail.
MCGRAW: Well, obviously they do. And we`ve seen horrible examples of these: kids that have been hit in the head, homeless people who have been hit in the head and killed; a boy not long ago that was set on fire by some bullies. It`s just kind of like there`s no -- they just can`t pump the brake on their impulses.
And it tells me that these kids are not well-socialized. And I don`t want to just be a voice that points out the obvious that says these kids are just not well-socialized. What I`m saying is we need to get into the schools and teach these kids how to express themselves through words, how to problem solve, how to handle and resolve conflict.
And we`ve got to teach these kids that are targeted by this, that telling is not tattling and for parents who make the mistake of saying, well, it`s just kids being kids. As you rightly point out, it has gone way beyond kids just being kids.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right.
MCGRAW: This is violent assault and do not leave your child alone at this time. This is the time where your kid will say, mom, dad, don`t do anything, you`ll just make it worse. Not true. You need to take your child. You need to go to school. You need to talk to the counselors, talk to the administrators.
Don`t run in the school doors like your hair`s on fire screaming and yelling because the teachers don`t want this to happen. They don`t -- you know bullies are smart. They don`t do this where the adults can see them. They do it off campus. They do it behind the gym. They do it behind the bleachers, but we have to step up and stop this stuff boundaries where the teachers say, well, it didn`t happen on school grounds, nothing we can do about it.
That`s wrong. They`re school kids. That`s how they know each other.
BEHAR: The child tried to run. Nadin. He tried to run. How can a victim avoid being bullied? I mean they need to have some kind of tools to deal with this. What can you do?
MCGRAW: That`s true. Of course, there are some things and they seem pretty lame when you say them actually. What you say is, look, try to avoid direct contact with the bullies. Try to be with a friend at all times. Talk about it if you are being bullied to get help. But the truth is, we know that`s a very inadequate solution because the bullies will jump you when you least expect it.
You can`t always be with a friend and sometimes the research tells us that many times kids that are bullied, 80 plus percent of them say they have not one adult in their school system that supports them or helps them in some way.
BEHAR: And also going with a friend. I mean, these -- well, there`s seven against one here, even if he had two friends with him, they would have just beaten up the other kids --
MCGRAW: True.
BEHAR: -- too. It`s a very difficult situation.
MCGRAW: Yes it is -- it is difficult and the only way we can do it is prevention. We`ve got to educate -- these kids should be punished but they also need help, Joy as well. They need counseling too.
BEHAR: Right. Ok, thank you very much for joining me, Dr. Phil.
MCGRAW: You bet Joy, good to talk -- good to talk to you.
BEHAR: See -- see you soon.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Since the video of that Alaska mother putting hot sauce in her son`s mouth and forcing him into a cold shower went viral, outrage over her actions has grown exponentially. The video first appeared on Dr. Phil.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JESSICA BEAGELY, MOTHER: Open. Close your mouth. Did you just swallow it? Go ahead. Do you lie to me? No, don`t spit.
First off, why are you getting a cold shower?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Because I pulled three cards.
BEAGELY: You pulled three cards today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: 36-year-old Jessica Beagely has pleaded not guilty to the charge of child abuse. The incident has brought up many questions about this technique, which apparently is known as hot saucing. Is it child abuse? And what are better alternatives?
Here to answer me -- answer those questions is "Supernanny", Jo Frost. A pleasure to see you, Jo. How are you?
JO FROST, STAR, ""SUPERNANNY"": Hi, hi Joy, very well thank you, and yourself?
BEHAR: I`m good. Now, I know what you`re going to answer, but I`m going to ask you this question. Do you think this mom was right to use hot sauce on the child?
FROST: No, she wasn`t --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Of course not.
FROST: -- she wasn`t right to use hot sauce. She is -- she`s a mother who`s frustrated and angry. She`s lost control. She`s not fostering growth, trust, honesty with her child and is opening up any form of emotional connection where really, one can be in a place to encourage her child with what she very clearly was very angry with in coming home with three cards from school.
And to actually lose it as she did clearly shows that this lady does need help. She does need efficient parental guidance in being able to use sufficient techniques. Saucing is not a technique. Putting hot sauce in your child`s mouth and -- and you know using other forms where you inflict pain on a child is merely a way of being able to you know control a situation because you`ve lost control.
BEHAR: Exactly.
FROST: And actually it doesn`t -- it doesn`t do anything at all. Apart from damage what we are seeing, which is you know, horrendous, the relationship between son and mother here. And you know, this lady -- this lady`s not alone, you know, that this -- this lady and her behavior towards her child has shocked millions across America. But there are thousands as you very well know watching me on the ""Supernanny"" show for over six years, of parents who -- who do exactly the same.
BEHAR: Exactly and also I think that the child is -- is hearing fear instead of love. I don`t really think that`s a very good form of child rearing at all, to make a child fear you as a parent.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: But a lot of people -- a lot of people disagree with that. They think you should instill fear in a child for that child to behave. I disagree with that completely.
FROST: You know, well, I think we know better. That`s why because we`ve --we`ve clearly seen from certainly watching myself when you`ve seen me with parents who have instilled fear, but actually, it doesn`t stop the behavior. It doesn`t encourage the child to think for themselves --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Right.
FROST: -- and recognize about making better choices. It doesn`t help you with your child walk through those scenarios and thinking about what you could do so the next time you`re in that situation or where the challenges are to make it better.
To fear your own parent locks down the emotional connection, the trust, the bonding that you have with your child. And quite clearly, we saw that that had already happened with this family and that`s why there was that fear.
I mean, it -- it was just horrendous to watch. It really was --
BEHAR: It`s horrendous to watch. And you know, one of my friends pointed out that it`s not the hot sauce that the child will remember. It will be the terror and the fear, which probably will scar that child for life. So that he has to worry about --
FROST: It`s the relationship --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: The relationship with the mother --
FROST: -- it`s the relationship, Joy. It`s the relationship between mother and child. It`s the relationship that`s going to continue to be damaged if this lady doesn`t get the right parental help that she needs in learning how to in a very positive way, encourage her child so that he feels he can go to his mom and have that relationship with her.
BEHAR: Yes.
FROST: Nobody is saying that you shouldn`t have boundaries. Nobody is saying that you shouldn`t discipline. Nobody is saying that you`re not supposed to have you know, a -- a want and expectation and bring that to potential, but this is not harboring that at all.
BEHAR: Well, you know, oh so, ok, so let`s -- let`s talk turkey. What is the best way to discipline a child so that the child understands what he did wrong but without causing psychological damage? Give us your expert advice so people out there can hear what to do when they`re frustrated with their children.
FROST: Well, certainly in this case, let`s start with a little boy who -- who`s seven years old. I think it was important in that scenario to actually talk to him about the challenges that he`s facing at school. You know, what -- what made him behave that way and work -- working through him and talking to him through that scenario allows him to be able to recognize that when he`s in that situation again, he can think quite clearly about the choices that he`ll make.
When we look at younger children, we`re certainly looking at time- outs, which I use sitting younger children --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Right.
FROST: -- on a step, on a chair, refraining them from time, removing them from maybe a play date so that they`re watching on the sides. Remove a lot of toys. For teenagers, certainly the things that are valuable for them, which we know right now is a lot of technology and -- and going out and socializing.
So looking at those forms at them recognizing what`s valuable in their life that they love as a child, as a teenager, that they want that more than actually being confiscated from anything they enjoy playing with.
But you`ve got to be able keep up the communication. And on the other side of things you`ve also got to be able to teach your children the importance of acceptable behavior and how to share and everything that stands as a core for you as your family values and not compromise that.
BEHAR: Also, the child is being reprimanded and disciplined because he`s lied to the mother. Well, isn`t he going to lie more --
FROST: Yes.
BEHAR: -- for fear if he -- if he does -- if he doesn`t tell her the truth --
FROST: Correct.
BEHAR: -- the next time he`s going to -- he`s just going to keep lying for fear that she`ll turn on him again. So it`s not really accomplishing anything.
FROST: It`s not accomplishing anything whatsoever apart from the damage and effect it`s having on the relationship which is humongous.
BEHAR: Yes.
FROST: And the reality is it`s a moral issue in raising your children to do the right thing.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s a moral issue. Exactly. It`s a moral issue to not abuse your children.
We`re going to have more on this when we return. Hang in there Jo. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with "Supernanny", Jo Frost and joining the conversation is Princella Smith, conservative commentator.
Princella, you were spanked as a child and some say a child won`t learn unless there is pain as punishment. Do you agree with that?
PRINCELLA SMITH, CONSERVATIVE COMMENTATOR: Well, I think that`s an interesting way of phrasing the question Joy. Thanks.
It`s not so much that a kid won`t learn unless there`s pain as punishment. What I learned from corporal punishment was that there are consequences to your actions. And you know, it`s relative to each child. My middle brother needed very few spankings, yet me and the youngest brother actually got quite a few spankings.
I think, well, I know what my parents tried to teach us was that there are consequences to our actions. I wasn`t spanked every time I did something wrong, but I do believe that you know, with every child, there`s a different level of discipline.
Some kids are smarter. In this case with the hot sauce thing, I mean it sounds like that mom got creative. And by God, God bless her. I don`t think I would do that with my kids, but creative punishment is sometimes necessary.
BEHAR: I wonder how she would like it if someone put hot sauce down her throat. I don`t think she would like it.
SMITH: Well, no. And again, to my understanding of the story, she didn`t pour it down his throat. She put it on his tongue. A seven -year- old boy lying and that`s very serious Joy. When these kids -- you know, we think that stuff`s cute when they`re young, and then they become teenagers, they become out of control.
I think to arrest this mother was a bit extreme.
BEHAR: Jo, how do you respond to that? And you know, the other thing I want to say is a lot of people say to me, it`s just a little spanking. It doesn`t hurt. I am against all spanking. That`s my position. All spanking, all hitting, all terrorizing, all name-calling, I don`t believe in any of that. To me, that is the antithesis of love.
But that is just me. How do you respond to what Princella says?
FROST: Princella clearly stated something that I do agree with and that is that parents do need to put in boundaries and discipline and the consequences in the household were spanking. The reality is that her parents chose to use spanking as a form of punishment. And the reason why some of those siblings had more than others was certainly due to their temperaments and not wanting to cohere to the rules in Princella`s family`s home.
But the reality is that that was a form of discipline that your parents obviously certainly had been instilled from way back when. And it`s a thought that still parents carry now, that the only way that they can get their children to behave and abide by those rules is to be able to spank them and to hit them and that becomes worse and worse and a child`s tolerance becomes more.
But you know, a child is supposed to look up to their parentally example and to understand the importance of thinking for themselves and honoring those expectations and values.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: I have to respond to that, Joy, if you would allow me to --
BEHAR: Ok, you have 30 seconds. Sure.
SMITH: Ok, I`m 27 years old, I`ve run for congress. I`m a black republican. I`m very opinionated. I`m very healthy. I love my parents. Nothing about them spanking me didn`t teach me to think for myself; as a matter of fact, both of them are very upstanding citizens who did lead by example. But the truth of the matter is, sometimes, I needed a little heat on my butt and I thank God to this day that I was prevented from a lot the mistakes that a lot of my --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I just want to say --
(CROSSTALK)
FROST: The reality is that it breaks relationships down.
BEHAR: Studies show -- Jo, spanking is linked to aggression, anxiety and lower --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Those are the new studies.
SMITH: I respectfully disagree.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys, very much. You can see Jo Frost on "Supernanny" Fridays at 8:00 p.m. on ABC.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Charlie Sheen went to rehab or should I say rehab went to Charlie Sheen. It is now being reported that the actor is undergoing rehab in the cozy confines of his mansion. So nice. So, how does that work, exactly? Here now to talk about this and other stories making news, are celebrity publicist Howard Bragman. Comedian Tammy Pescatelli. And co- host of "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," A.J. Hammer.
Welcome, my friends, to the show.
HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLICIST: Thank you.
BEHAR: Have you ever heard, A.J., of rehab at home before?
A.J. HAMMER, CO-HOST, SHOWBIZ TONIGHT: Yes, but not in the traditional sense of actually getting help. You know, self-rehabilitation perhaps. Every now and then on a Sunday morning, I`ll make a bloody Mary, you know, to heal what ails me from Saturday night.
This is insane to me. Honestly, this is insane, Joy. And it`s the biggest statement of denial I`ve seen yet. It obviously shows that Charlie Sheen is not at all serious about getting the help that he needs.
He claims that it`s the people, not the place, that`s going to help him. Look, he`s been dealing with whatever he`s dealing with for decades now.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: Exactly right. No, and I think quite frankly, I`m really ticked off at him, because look at what he`s doing to all the crew that relies upon him to have that show in production.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: People are not getting paid.
BEHAR: What is it to you?
HAMMER: I`m ticked off because I have a great respect for the crew and for the people who make these things happen, and why aren`t they getting paid? I take it personally.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAGMAN: But you know, it`s absolutely true. CBS is in kind of in a funny position, because if he does -- if he shows up for work and ready to work and he does the job, they can`t do anything. But as soon as he does this, all these people lose their incomes and they don`t make $2 million.
But you know, home rehab is right up there with home neurosurgery. OK? It`s one of my favorite things to do.
TAMMY PESCATELLI, COMEDIAN: Maybe they can just take the "Two and a Half Men" set and do it at his house, because he`s got everybody--
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: He`s got a really big house.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: There`s a reality show, "Hooker House," next door. I love the "Hooker House."
HAMMER: That`s a no-brainer. Put the cameras in there, let them roll.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But he`s saying it`s for privacy reasons. He`s a big star. He doesn`t want to be in rehab with the riff-raff. He wants--
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: He`s had so much great privacy.
BEHAR: He`s too famous.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: Big stars have never been to rehab before.
(CROSSTALK)
PESCATELLI: You know what I love about you? Is that you -- your clients aren`t booked but you are on this show. Isn`t that -- you are the best publicist in the world.
BEHAR: No, his clients are booked on the show all the time. Are you kidding me? Don`t we book your clients?
BRAGMAN: You`re very generous to our clients.
PESCATELLI: And what would you say if you were his publicist?
BRAGMAN: I wouldn`t say it was a hernia.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAGMAN: I don`t know why Stan said it was a hernia.
BEHAR: Because he was lifting a big porn star and he hurt himself.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PESCATELLI: It was the suitcase full of coke.
BRAGMAN: All you`ve got to say is my client was rushed to the hospital with pain. We don`t talk about medical issues. It`s private, go away.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: But did he say hernia?
BEHAR: Hernia, I know. Who has a hernia these days?
PESCATELLI: Britney probably had a hernia at one point. She shaved her head too, as he`s probably shaving his head at the house--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, Radaronline is reporting that Sheen`s parents are discussing getting a conservatorship of Charlie.
HAMMER: Do it.
BEHAR: Could that actually happen? That`s like Britney. Didn`t that happen to Britney?
HAMMER: Britney did that, and it turned out to be the best thing for her when her father got the conservatorship.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: Do I see it actually happening? Of course--
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: He`s a 35-year-old guy. He`s got more money to pay more lawyers than Marty Sheen does. And as much as they love him and they care, and I know from talking to people--
BEHAR: So it`s not going to work.
BRAGMAN: It`s not going to work. You know, as he was going to, quote/unquote, rehab, he was texting the guy at Radar saying can`t a guy just do his job and have some fun?
BEHAR: Yeah, I saw that.
BRAGMAN: You want to hear, I`m powerless? Don`t you, when you go into rehab? Not, can`t I guy have some fun?
PESCATELLI: Ask Bill Clinton that. I mean, come on, this has been going on forever now. You can`t do anything anymore to that level, and there is no privacy. So if he thinks he`s going to have private rehab, he can forget about that. His parents should take his kids. That`s who they should take, the twins.
BEHAR: What about Denise Richards? She can take those kids. Aren`t they her kids?
PESCATELLI: No, they`re not her kids.
BEHAR: Oh, I can`t keep track of all of this.
(LAUGHTER)
BRAGMAN: And if you really want privacy--
PESCATELLI: Angelina and Brad Pitt are going to take them--
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: If you want privacy, do you call the husband of a "Beverly Hills Housewife" to come over and help you? Is that really the best way to get privacy?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I guess not. OK, let`s change the subject, because Ricky Gervais`s controversial appearance on the Golden Globes, will he get another shot at hosting next year? That`s the question. I mean, it depends on who you ask. If you ask him, the answer is yes. If you ask the people at the Golden Globes, the answer is no. Gervais wrote this about the Globes in "Heat" magazine, another magazine I`ve never heard of.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: I`ve never seen that one.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: "They said the ratings went up again and the organizers asked me to consider a third year," but the Golden Globes organizers are saying there`s no truth to that. They released a statement. "We have not asked him to come back. Nice try, Ricky." First of all, nice try, Ricky, like he needs the Golden Globes? He`s a big, big name.
BRAGMAN: Why would he come back next year? He had a really funny show, arguably. There were problems, he was funny. Next year if he`s not as funny, they`ll go, oh, he toned it down too much.
BEHAR: They didn`t think he was funny.
BRAGMAN: You can`t win.
HAMMER: And that`s what Ricky is saying. He`s saying, why would I want to do that? Because I knocked it out of the park and it`s only downhill from here.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: I don`t personally think he should, but it is interesting how this is just being stretched out a little bit longer. The Globes are staying in the news. Ricky, who doesn`t seem to care about staying in the news, is managing to stay in the news.
PESCATELLI: Right. And he`s a comic. So as you know, you`ve got to get off stage at your funniest point. That would be the perfect time for him to go. But I don`t know what they thought. He makes fun --
BRAGMAN: They`re not going to invite him back.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: There`s no reason for me to watch these award shows if somebody like Gervais is not up there trashing them. Really, I don`t want to hear, "oh, you were so great, you were so great, you were so great." Who cares.
BRAGMAN: But there`s a balance. You can be funny, and I`ll tell you, in past Golden Globes, a lot of the people who have gotten awards -- you know, you get to drink during the Golden Globes, which is different than -- and a lot of people had some really crazy moments. And everybody was so talking about him, the people who were supposed to shine didn`t get a chance to, you know--
PESCATELLI: Oh, the crazies (ph) didn`t get a chance to be seen?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Those Scientologists are going to come and put him in a spaceship.
HAMMER: Jack didn`t even bother to show up.
PESCATELLI: I don`t know how they didn`t know that he wouldn`t do that. His whole show on HBO is making fun of his friend. His friend! He doesn`t even know those people he`s telling jokes about.
BEHAR: But why can`t you do that?
PESCATELLI: That`s what I`m saying, of course you can. I`m 100 percent behind him. That`s what they knew they were getting. His whole show is about mocking his friend. How did they not think he was going to say something about a total stranger?
BEHAR: Exactly. Exactly.
HAMMER: So what?
BEHAR: So what, who cares.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Music mogul P. Diddy bought his 17-year-old son Justin a 390,000 Maybach limo for making his school`s honor roll. I say thank God he`s not valedictorian, because he`s going to have to buy him a 747. OK. What did your parents get you for your birthday when you made the honor roll?
BRAGMAN: Well, like, when I graduated high school and I was going to college, I got a used Gremlin. It was really nice.
(LAUGHTER)
HAMMER: They went up from the Pacer. You went to the Gremlin.
PESCATELLI: For my 16th birthday, like a lot of Italian girls and Jewish girls, I got the offer of car--
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
PESCATELLI: Car or nose job. And obviously, I took the car.
(CROSSTALK)
PESCATELLI: Great move.
HAMMER: And by the way, Maybach. Come on, Joy.
BEHAR: I`ve never heard of it before.
PESCATELLI: It`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: But it`s a limo.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: You can get it as a limo. I mean, this is a car that you do want somebody else driving.
Here`s what I don`t understand. And look, he has all the money in the world, he can do whatever the heck he wants, really.
BEHAR: That`s true.
HAMMER: But wouldn`t it be something, wouldn`t it be something if he took the $400,000 or about what that car cost, said, all right, son, you did good, why don`t you decide on a great charity to give half that money to or all that money to?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: How about giving it to the teachers who got him on the honor roll? That would have been a nice gesture. Or donate it to the school. That would have been sweet, also. Even 100,000 would be nice.
PESCATELLI: Or just give the teachers a ride. Maybe he can pick them up in his Maybach on the way to school.
BEHAR: That`s a very nice gesture.
BRAGMAN: Which school is this he`s going to? I want to know--
(CROSSTALK)
PESCATELLI: I don`t know. It`s a home school.
BEHAR: By the way, this is the second car -- this is the second Maybach the kid has gotten.
(CROSSTALK)
HAMMER: -- the first one broke.
BEHAR: Why does he need two of them?
BRAGMAN: Oh, the first one was dusty, it was the wrong color. It was bad.
BEHAR: All right. Now, this last story is interesting, because Barbara Bush, not the old lady, but the daughter of George W. Bush, says she fully supports gay marriage, and the former president George W. says he couldn`t be prouder of her. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARBARA BUSH, DAUGHTER OF PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH: I`m Barbara Bush, and I`m a New Yorker for Marriage Equality.
New York is about fairness and equality, and everyone should have the right to marry the person that they love. Join us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. So are you all surprised about this? Because her daddy was not pro-gay marriage.
BRAGMAN: No. Laura Bush comes out with her book and she said, oh, I have lots of gay friends. It wasn`t a big deal. George Bush said, yes, it wasn`t such a big deal. And this really irks me. I`ll tell you why. If they truly believe in their heart for biblical or whatever stupid reasons, in this homophobia, good for them. But they`re all acknowledging it was just political expediency. And you know, kids were killing themselves. Kids were being bullied. They did real damage, and I hope there`s a special place in hell for those people. I really do.
BEHAR: Don`t hold back, Howard.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: I really do. It`s a--
(CROSSTALK)
PESCATELLI: And you know what? Let`s be honest. The Barbara Bush Sr. has turned more men gay than anybody.
(LAUGHTER)
PESCATELLI: So let`s really be real.
BEHAR: Now -- you`re right.
PESCATELLI: Aren`t you just happy that a Bush is advocating lesbianism?
BEHAR: She`s not the only one. Meghan McCain is advocating gay marriage. And I don`t think it`s lesbianism that they`re advocating--
PESCATELLI: Bush and lesbianism, I had to say it.
(LAUGHTER)
PESCATELLI: It had to be said.
HAMMER: You still working on that, Joy?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Mary Cheney, who is a lesbian herself, is also pro-gay marriage, but she has this interest in it herself.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: These are the women. I mean, George disagreed with this, but you know, you`re right. It was expediency that made them say they are against gay marriage.
BRAGMAN: When people come from it from the heart and a true place, you sort of respect, although you don`t really respect it. But these people, it`s just crap.
BEHAR: But what about Obama? Do you think he means it? He`s against gay marriage too.
BRAGMAN: No, I think -- I think he didn`t want that to be an issue when he was elected. In `96, he said he was in favor of gay marriage, and now he said it`s evolving. And I`m sure it will evolve right after the election, he`ll change his mind go, yeah, gay marriage is fine, right after he wins his second term.
BEHAR: So he needs it to get elected on the backs of gay people, though.
(CROSSTALK)
PESCATELLI: Well, that`s a different story. That will break later on.
(LAUGHTER)
HAMMER: -- George Bush`s only comment about what his daughter said was, huh?
PESCATELLI: He doesn`t know which one. He doesn`t know which one Barbara is.
BEHAR: Barbara Bush? Isn`t she my mother?
OK, thank you, guys, very much. You can catch Tammy Pescatelli in "A Standup Mother" Tuesday nights on "We," and you can also see A.J. Hammer on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," immediately following this show. He has an exclusive interview with the doctor who took Charlie Sheen home from the hospital last week, and then -- took him home and left him there. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Actress Halle Berry and "Top Chef" host Padma Lakshmi are both new mothers in the midst of contentious custody battles, each with an ex- boyfriend, which brings up the question, what custody rights does the father have, especially if he was never married to the mother of his child?
Joining me now to discuss this are Ericka Souter, "Us Weekly" staff writer, and Glenn Sacks, executive director of Fathers and Families.
OK, Ericka, Halle`s ex-boyfriend is fighting for joint custody of a 2- year-old daughter. Can you tell us what`s going on exactly there?
ERICKA SOUTER, US WEEKLY: After dating four years, Halle and Gabriel broke up in April. And they had an amicable split at first. They were going to raise the baby together and share custody, but it`s turned nasty.
BEHAR: Why did it turn nasty?
SOUTER: Well, it seems that Gabriel doesn`t feel like he`s getting enough time with the baby. He also doesn`t feel like his parental rights are clearly stated. So that`s what he`s petitioning. He wants it to be stated in documentation that he is Nahla`s father, and that he does share custody with Halle.
BEHAR: OK. This is a statement from Halle`s rep. This is the other side of it -- "Halle has serious concerns for her daughter`s well-being while in the care of her father for any extended period of time and is prepared to take all necessary steps to protect her."
OK, so and meanwhile, Glenn, the other side of the story, you just heard that Halle`s been accused of caring more about dating than parenting. How common is this, where parents start badmouthing the dad -- or each other -- to get the upper edge?
GLENN SACKS, EXEC. DIRECTOR, FATHERS AND FAMILIES: Well, it`s very common, and usually it`s counterproductive. And here, you`ve got two people who are in the media. You know, people -- a lot of people are under the illusion that you can use the media better than the media can use you. They use the media to try to get at each other, and in the end, they end up damaging each other`s -- sullying each other`s reputations.
The key thing really here is this -- Halle Berry says that there`s something about this gentleman that makes him an unfit father or not safe for the kid, but we don`t have any evidence. And until we see the evidence, we don`t really know.
Very common that false accusations are made in custody cases like this to drive fathers away. On the other hand, maybe Halle Berry is genuinely acting out of concern for the kid. We`re really not going to know until we see the evidence.
SOUTER: She is very concerned. In fact, she pulled out of a new movie, called "New Year`s Eve." It`s a comedy she was already set to go film. She pulled it out so she could deal with this custody case. Now, she feels that in Gabriel`s care, Nahla is not in the safest of circumstances. Now, she hasn`t expressed what those are, but that will probably come out in the court hearings that are going to follow.
BEHAR: I mean, it`s possible that they`re both making this stuff up.
SOUTER: It is.
BEHAR: Just to get custody. And it`s not really fair to the child.
SOUTER: But in Hollywood, it`s usually the bigger star that seems to have the upper hand, and Halle is the big star. And Gabriel is -- you know, of course he is a successful model, but he`s fighting for his parental rights, and Halle is fighting back.
BEHAR: It`s kind of hard, Glenn, when you have people like this, Halle, who is on the road. And he -- what does he do, this guy?
SOUTER: He`s a model.
BEHAR: He`s a model. But he`s not a model parent.
SOUTER: We don`t know that.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, according to Halle.
SOUTER: Right.
BEHAR: Yeah.
SOUTER: Right.
SACKS: It`s interesting here, though, because, you know, he`s saying that, look, her career is very demanding. She travels a lot. She`s on the road, she`s here, she`s there. My career is more sedentary. I can care for the child easier. And now people are saying, oh, this is such an attack on Halle Berry, she`s a career woman, this is sexist. That stuff is used against fathers all the time. Fathers` careers are always used against them. And they`re just going out and earning money and being a breadwinner for the family like they`re supposed to, or their, you know, society wants them to, and it`s used against them.
This guy may very well have a legitimate case that he has more hands- on time, ability to give hands-on time to raising the child than she does.
SOUTER: That`s absolutely not -- that`s not fair at all. Because she travels with Nahla, she takes her to sets, she`s always with that child.
BEHAR: She gave up a job.
SOUTER: She gave up a job to make sure that they settle this custody agreement. She actually is a very good mom, and a lot of her friends support her. And they say she`s excellent.
SACKS: I didn`t say she wasn`t a good mom. I`m just saying that it`s inherently an unstable situation for the child. Plus, the child too -- in a few years, the child is going to need to be in school somewhere, right?
BEHAR: That`s true.
SACKS: And if Halle Berry`s away a lot, you know, it might be better that the kid -- the child is with the father. What would be ideal is if they both could live in the same city, and when Halle`s away, the child will be with the father more, and then when Halle`s back, the father will let the child be with Halle more. That would be ideal.
BEHAR: It`s very hard on children. It`s very hard on the child when both parents are working in different places. It`s very unstable, let`s face it.
SOUTER: It is. But a traveling clan works for the Jolie-Pitts. Children are often home-schooled. They have traveling nannies and tutors.
BEHAR: That`s true.
SOUTER: And there is a way to make it work.
BEHAR: There is a way to make that work, but it sounds as though he wants more parenting involvement with it, and he`s not getting it, and that`s not really fair to him either.
SOUTER: No, it`s not.
BEHAR: OK, but we`re going to continue this in just a minute, because there`s another case in the news, too, about this very thing.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about the parental rights of fathers. Now, let me talk to you, Ericka. "Top Chef," Padma Lakshmi, she has been married to Salman Rushdie--
SOUTER: Right.
BEHAR: -- a while, right? And then she had a boyfriend, Adam Dell--
SOUTER: Right.
BEHAR: -- and she`s now with a 71-year-old -- she is a young woman --
SOUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: She is with 71-year-old billionaire Ted Forstmann, and Dell, the boyfriend who she had the baby with, now wants full custody of their little daughter, Krishna.
SOUTER: right, that`s right.
BEHAR: OK. So tell me what happened there?
SOUTER: One thing, Padma has eclectic taste in men.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She sure does.
SOUTER: You know, so she`s -- she`s dated Adam Dell for --
BEHAR: They have a type. They all have money. That`s the thing that has--
(CROSSTALK)
SOUTER: That`s everyone`s type, that is everyone`s type.
BEHAR: Well, it`s certainly possible.
SOUTER: All right. Well, she dated Adam Dell. It fizzled. She was -- after she got pregnant, it fizzled. And she even went out and called him, you know, unmemorable, unambitious. This is what his court papers alleged. And that she was hoping that the baby was -- the father of the baby was her new boyfriend, Ted. So he`s fighting back.
BEHAR: But he`s not.
SOUTER: He`s not. No. They took DNA tests. It`s Adam`s baby.
BEHAR: It`s Adam`s baby.
SOUTER: And he`s fighting back. He`s asking for full custody and child support, reports say.
BEHAR: A-hah.
SOUTER: So he`s asserting -- he`s trying to get his parental rights there.
SACKS: But that`s--
BEHAR: Go ahead, Glenn.
SACKS: It`s not exactly true. He filed for sole custody because under New York law, it`s difficult to get shared custody. I won`t bore you with the details, but he said publicly all he wants is joint custody. OK? And that`s one of the things in these celebrity custody battles, there`s always this, oh, it`s a custody battle. Well, usually, it`s the mom who wants sole custody, the father who wants joint custody. There is a massive moral distinction between those two positions. One parent is saying I want to share custody, the other one is saying, no, I only want it for myself.
He`s also publicly said that he doesn`t want child support. Yeah, he`s had to file for these things because of the different vagaries of New York law, but he`s publicly said that. Also, he wants his name--
BEHAR: Well, does he want child support or doesn`t he?
SOUTER: it`s in the court -- it`s in the papers.
BEHAR: OK, go ahead, Glenn.
SACKS: He`s publicly said that he will not accept it. He wants his name on the birth certificate.
BEHAR: Well, that`s nice.
SACKS: It sounds to me like the mother here is doing what`s called daddy shopping, right? She`s now done with Adam, she`s now moved on to her new guy, so now she`s trying to get him established as the father. And the child may very well be calling that guy daddy. You see that a lot. The mother will tell the child to call the real father by his first name and call the new stepdad or whatever, daddy. It just sounds to me -- now, we don`t know how much of all this is true, but if it`s true, he`s just trying to assert his rights to be a part of his kid`s life.
BEHAR: He has a point. You know? It`s like the guy -- it is his kid.
SOUTER: And it is his kid.
BEHAR: And didn`t she name the kid Krishna, but what did she name the--
SOUTER: The middle name is Thea, which is indicative of Ted.
(CROSSTALK)
SACKS: The middle name is named after --
BEHAR: After Ted.
SOUTER: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
SACKS: For the new daddy.
BEHAR: Well, that`s a slap.
SOUTER: It is a slap. It is a slap in the face. But you know, Padma`s moving on with her life, she`s got a new man in her life, and she wants them to be a little family together. That doesn`t mean that Adam can`t be a part of Krishna`s life. It just means he has to figure out this whole blended family thing and do a (inaudible) kind of situation.
BEHAR: It`s a diss, it`s a diss, as the kids say, to call the kid the name of the new father when the biological father is interested in the kid. That`s kind of mean, I think.
SOUTER: It is mean, but hey, it`s done.
SACKS: It`s unnecessary and it`s mean. And also, I mean, Adam`s name isn`t even on the birth certificate. She named -- she gave the child her own last name, which you know, is defensible, but it`s still another indication that she`s not really interested--
SOUTER: But that`s very common. A lot of single mothers --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She`s not even married to this Forstmann guy.
SOUTER: She`s not married to either of them. It`s fine for the kid to have her last name.
BEHAR: She`s a free spirit, Padma, is that what this is about?
SOUTER: She is. She`s a free spirit.
BEHAR: You know, I have news for her, if she likes men with money, she should marry them. Because that`s where you really get the cash.
SOUTER: She`s getting a lot of the perks either way. I`m sure she`s enjoying a fantastic lifestyle.
BEHAR: Glenn, before we go, what advice do you have for men who are watching in the custody battle? What advice do you give them?
SACKS: Well, you know, it can be very difficult, particularly for unmarried fathers, and you know, the great untold story in the United States is that so many of the fathers who we think have abandoned their children really have been pushed out of their children`s lives. If you`re a father in that situation, unfortunately you`re probably going to need an attorney. I don`t say that with pleasure, but it`s probably true. And you`re probably going to have to fight so that your rights -- your rights are very clearly spelled out, so your relationship with your child is protected over the next 18 years.
BEHAR: Yes. Alec Baldwin is a big proponent of, you know, custody rights and everything. And he`s been through it, too.
SOUTER: There are other examples in Hollywood of good dads. Kevin Federline.
BEHAR: Yes, of course.
SOUTER: You know, Steve Harvey--
(CROSSTALK)
SACKS: You know, Kevin Federline was crucified for years, you know, on the talk shows, comedians, everybody. Turns out that he was the better parent, he was the parent of reason, and he was the parent who stepped up and raised those kids--
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Britney Spears.
SACKS: -- after Britney fell apart.
SOUTER: Yes.
BEHAR: OK, thanks--
SACKS: And a lot of times, that`s the case.
BEHAR: Thank you, guys, very much. It`s interesting, you know--
SACKS: My pleasure.
BEHAR: And thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
