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Joy Behar Page
Sleeping with the Tiger; Facebook Stalker; Olbermann Lands New TV Gig
Aired February 08, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW a teenage girl who sleeps with her pet tiger. Joy will have the unbelievable story.
Plus Internet pioneer, billionaire and now stalking victim. Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg gets a restraining order against an obsessed friend. So, with social media making it easier to stalk, did the Facebook king reap what he sowed?
And Keith Olbermann is coming back to television, he will be on Al Gore`s Current TV, but will people watch?
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: We`re starting tonight with video you just have to see to believe. Every night 17-year-old Felicia Frisco sleeps with her pet, a tiger. Having a 100-pound tiger as a pet, much less a roommate doesn`t sound like a good idea. But what do I know?
Here to talk more about this story is Dr. Bagavan Antle, director of the Myrtle Beach Safari and founder of the Institute of Greatly Endangered and Rare Species who thinks it`s a good idea. Welcome to the show, Doctor.
DR. BAGAVAN ANTLE, DIRECTOR, MYRTLE BEACH SAFARI: Thank you very much. Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Ok. Now, this girl comes from a family of animal handlers. You know the family, I take it. Why is the animal sleeping in the girl`s bed, again? Tell me why.
ANTLE: You know, she`s working with that animal as a professional animal trainer in a life-long effort of her and her multigenerational animal trainer family to get a bond with that animal. So she and the animal have a relationship so that as it matures she`s able to have a relationship with it when it goes into the group of big tigers that live right outside the door. There`s another eight or nine outside.
BEHAR: But isn`t that -- isn`t it a little dangerous to do that? The tiger has claws, right? And it has big teeth. Even though it`s a baby still, it`s six months, I would think it`s dangerous to sleep with a wild animal. No?
ANTLE: Certainly there is a degree of danger. You know, she is professional doing something that has a set of risks to it just like going out and snowboarding competitively does, right? You can get killed on the slopes. She`s doing something that has a degree of risk to it and she`s working with that animal.
At that age, the tiger has teeth smaller than a dog. The claws are very easy to trim when they`re young. So it doesn`t have the lethality of a Rottweiler until it gets about a year old. At that time she takes it out and has it live outside, no longer has it making such intimate contact with her on a basis where she`s asleep.
You know, it`s something that as the tiger matures, you change the rules and you adapt to its personality and its abilities.
BEHAR: Ok. So the tiger is still young, so it`s ok now, but like in six months the tiger will be eating meat? Should she kick the tiger out of her bed?
ANTLE: Yes. By the time the tiger`s a year old she does plan on the tiger getting out of the bed and going out. The tiger does eat meat now. It eats a blend of meat and still drinks a bottle. It is a carnivore eating things.
It doesn`t look at a person as a meal as part of its exchange with the person. It doesn`t say, I eat food from you and I might eat you. They don`t recognize that you`re the same thing as a chunk of beef that you`re handing them.
BEHAR: I know. But you know, I remember Siegfried and Roy. I mean Roy Horn, they raised those tigers from when they were little babies, too, and yet the tiger attacked Roy. Couldn`t that happen to the girl later on?
ANTLE: It could happen. I mean, I know Roy very well. I spent time with him over many decades, you know? Roy wasn`t attacked by the tiger per se and torn up, right? The wounds that Roy got were no more than pencil holes. It was the collapse of some of his arteries and him having a stroke that caused most of what went wrong with Roy Horn, not a tiger bite. But he`d been bitten during his life. He`d been bitten during his other performances. That activity certainly can happen.
It is very rare for it to happen for professional animal trainers that work like we do in a group. Right now, with us, there`s eight people out here all watching. They have decades of experience working with the animals so that they can have that interactive quality.
The tigers when they`re little have small teeth. You can kind of do it by yourself. As they mature and get the much bigger teeth, you have to be much more careful about how you interact with them, what you do and you keep a team of people. They`re very unlikely to try to attack or act up with people next to you.
Roy is all by himself out on stage. He did things very different than what myself and my peers do where we work with them in what we call a team of backup.
BEHAR: Right. I see in the pictures that we`re showing that the young girl is kissing the tiger. I mean, the halitosis, alone, could kill her. You know?
ANTLE: It`s like kissing -- it`s like kissing your dog. I mean, I have, you know, friends and family that kiss different animals and, you know, some people like to kiss their dog. Some people let that Chihuahua give them a lick on the cheek. It`s not my forte. But I`d say, for that tiger to give her a kiss isn`t much different.
BEHAR: I see. What about the tiger, himself? Do you think that -- is it a boy tiger or girl tiger?
ANTLE: It`s a little boy tiger. It will be big like this guy.
BEHAR: Look at that.
ANTLE: You`re a good boy.
This is a big 500-pound male. This is what he`ll turn into. A guy like this who still enjoys his bottle, still likes spending time with people. Has grown an enormous set of teeth as he`s matured but still has a great personality because of how he was raised and because a group of us have dedicated our time and energies into having him learn how to interact with us, but as a professional, not as my pet.
BEHAR: Yes. He`s beautiful. Look at that baby. That`s a gorgeous animal. Oh my goodness. You`re so lucky, I think, to be in the position to do that. I think. It`s a beautiful animal. I`m getting all excited about it here.
ANTLE: Great privilege.
BEHAR: Yes, it is. Is the -- is it fair to the animal, though? I mean, you`re taking them out of their natural habitat which obviously would be in Africa some place or India. You know, they are being kept in captivity. Is that fair to the animal, do you think?
ANTLE: The thing about tigers is, tigers are a highly endangered species. They`re very rare in the wild. National Geographic considers the tiger to potentially be extinct in just the next couple decades. They`re an animal that lives in Southeast Asia and they have a lot of trouble there. They`re being poached at an alarming rate.
BEHAR: That`s true.
ANTLE: India which is the capital of tigers may only have a thousand tigers left in the entire country at this point. So, it`s an animal that has disappeared. There`s nowhere for a tiger to live in the wild anymore except in small preserves.
So the captive life like this tiger has is what he`ll always have. He has huge pasture areas that he`s able to go out and stay in. But when he`s out with us he gets to take a walk.
The greatest thing for a tiger is to have new sight, sounds and smells, new experiences. That gives the tiger the greatest gift. That`s his winning of the lottery, a chance to do something else.
BEHAR: Thank you very much. I really -- that is one cute pussycat. Let me tell you something. Thank you so much, Doctor, for joining me. Ok.
Now I`d like to bring in actress Tippi Hedren; now Tippi is the president of the Roar Foundation. Hello, Tippi, how are you?
TIPPI HEDREN, PRESIDENT, ROAR FOUNDATION: I`m well, joy. Thank you for doing this.
BEHAR: It`s great to see you.
HEDREN: This is a very important issue. Thank you.
BEHAR: We`re all big fans of yours, Tippi. Now, you work with lions and tigers through your foundation, right?
HEDREN: We rescue big cats; the lion, the tiger, the leopard, mountain lion, all of the different predators who have been born in captivity, to be sold as a pet or for financial gain or for our amusement.
And, you know, I`ve been doing this since 1971 when we wanted to do a film about the animals in the wild because of the -- problems they have out there, just due to encroaching civilization, sport, hunting and poaching.
BEHAR: What do you think about this girl who`s 17 years old sleeping with this tiger for the moment? She`s not going to be sleeping with him when he`s bigger, but now.
HEDREN: That would be extremely dangerous, but you know, the fact that she`s raising this little tiger, I`ve done it myself, and -- actually the point of this whole thing is that these animals should not be in captivity in the first place. These are predators. Top of the food chain --
BEHAR: The doctor I spoke to said they`re in more danger in the wild these days because of poaching.
HEDREN: Well, they are, but is it -- is this good for the animal? I mean when you take these animals, who their major point in being born is the reason why you never see old animals. You never see sick animals, maimed animals in the wild. It is because of these predators. They are apex predator which means top of the food chain. This is their job.
Now, when you put that into consideration, and they have instincts that can never be removed, ever. This is a very dangerous animal. When we were doing our film, all of us were hurt. I was hurt. My daughter, Melanie, was hurt. My then-husband, my two stepsons --
BEHAR: My goodness.
HEDREN: Yon, our DP. I mean, I do speak from where it all happened and I`m -- I really know what I`m talking about.
BEHAR: Ok. I believe you.
HEDREN: The fact that -- these --
BEHAR: I think you do know what you`re talking about because you have so much experience with it. I really want to thank you for sharing your point of view here. And say hi to Melanie for us.
HEDREN: I will do that.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you, Tippi.
For more tales of bizarre pets, be sure to tune in tomorrow night for our look at "Animal Hoarders".
Back after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Keith Olbermann announces his return to TV teaming up with none other than Al Gore.
And filmmaker Kevin Smith drops by to talk about his controversy new film "Red State".
Now back to Joy.
BEHAR: Facebook founder Mark Zuckerberg is the latest celebrity to have a stalker according to TMZ. A judge granted a restraining order against 31-year-old Pradeep Manukonda after he sent the Facebook founder flowers, creepy notes and even stopped by his office and home.
Here now to talk about this are Rhonda Saunders, is international stalking consultant and criminal prosecutor. And Jessica Coen, editor-in- chief of Jezebel.com, part of Gawker Media.
Ok, before we start let me read you part of the message written to Zuckerberg that was posted on TMZ.
He said, "Please, Mark, time is really running out for me, please help me. I really need your help. Please respond in time before it gets too late for us. I owe entire of my life" I guess it`s a foreign guy. "at your service. Please help me. Then I am ready to die for you. These are not just words. These are coming from my heart".
Ok, Jessica, what does this guy want? What do you read there?
JESSICA COEN, SEZEBEL.COM: I -- maybe he wants his password reset? I`m not sure, when you reach out to someone like Mark Zuckerberg, you -- you want help from somebody from something. And it clearly he thinks he knows this guy and that might have something to do with him being in film now and being in a movie and less of a human being and more of a character that he`s reaching out to.
Because -- when -- when do you stalk nerds? That`s a relatively new thing.
BEHAR: That`s true, well, why not. I mean, he`s not just a nerd. He`s a billionaire.
COEN: He`s a very powerful nerd.
BEHAR: Yes. I mean I`m interested in that s -- because it doesn`t sound like he`s that scary in that note. He sounds more needy.
COEN: No, he sounds like a gentle stalker.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, I don`t know. That`s an oxymoron.
But Rhonda, come on, get in this. Is he a gentle stalker?
RHONDA SAUNDERS, STALKING EXPERT: I don`t think there`s any such thing as a gentle stalker. And I mean we`ve learned by experience with people like Mark David Chapman and Robert Bardo that celebrities are at risk.
And you have people like this who start off, you know, they`ll send candy and flowers, they think they have a relationship or they want to have a relationship and then when they get rejected it starts to turn to anger like who does this person think he is?
And then it can spill over to their family. The girlfriend, their mother and these people are actually in that zone of danger because the stalker`s thoughts are, gee, maybe if I eliminate these people, I`ll be able to get access to the victim.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Which is --
SAUNDERS: So I`d take these people really seriously.
BEHAR: -- well, there`s a restraining order about -- for the sister - -
SAUNDERS: Right.
BEHAR: -- and his -- his girlfriend, too.
Is that what you`re driving at here? Why do they do that?
SAUNDERS: Well, not just this case, but we`ve seen it in other cases, and as I`ve said, when you have people like a mother or a sister, in these stalkers minds, these are obstacles --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Right.
SAUNDERS: -- that need to either be gotten rid of or they feel, ok, the candy didn`t work and the flowers didn`t work, I`m going to make this guy a little scared and then maybe he`ll respond to me. So maybe if I mentioned his mother or his girlfriend or his sister --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
SAUNDERS: -- maybe that`s the thing that will make him give me a call or send me an e-mail or do whatever it is that they want them to do.
BEHAR: Well, the guy -- the guy, the stalker, he apologized because he -- he told TMZ, "I`m a peaceful guy, I`m sorry he thought I was trying to harm him. I understand he`s a busy man. I`ll respect his privacy".
So should Zuckerberg now not be worried?
SAUNDERS: No, restraining order is a piece of paper. I mean, that`s what I tell victims of stalking.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Do they work?
SAUNDERS: -- that -- it`s a piece of paper and they don`t really work. I mean it depends on the person, but most of the time it`s tossed in the garbage can.
And this is a guy who did his research. He found out where he lived. He was able to contact him. I mean, this is not just someone who`s going to say gee, I`m sorry, and slink off.
So I`m glad he has the restraining order because that means if he shows up on Zuckerberg`s front doorstep that the police can be called and they can make an immediate arrest. Without that restraining order there isn`t really a whole lot that they can do.
COEN: What good is a restraining order when you`re saying this is a piece of paper? And it absolutely is.
BEHAR: Right.
COEN: Much of this is happening online now. A restraining order can`t keep a guy off of his e-mail. A restraining order can`t keep someone away from a Facebook page. And a lot of these messages were being posted on a Facebook page.
So the Internet makes these celebrities and these important public figures accessible 24/7. So restraining order I don`t think that makes a difference at all.
BEHAR: Yes.
Internet stalking is on the rise I would think. I mean even Ivanka Trump was stalked on the Internet --
(CROSS TALK)
COEN: Right, right.
BEHAR: -- with some scary stuff, too.
COEN: Yes, crazy fan pages.
BEHAR: But how has Zuckerberg responded to all of these?
COEN: I mean, he`s freaked out a little bit --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
COEN: -- and he`s quiet about it. And you know, he has his lawyer handling it. But to have this stalker, not just reach out to you but the stalker also reached out to Zuckerberg`s sister, not necessarily in the way and it makes sense this -- this sister`s in the way. Or get her out of the way. But that`s not how he reached out. He wanted help from Randy Zuckerberg as well.
So --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: He wants something. Rhonda -- Rhonda, what do you think he wants?
SAUNDERS: I think he wants to be Zuckerberg`s BFF, his best friend forever.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Maybe he wants a job.
SAUNDERS: -- and he thinks that -- in his mind. I`m sorry?
BEHAR: Maybe he wants a job.
COEN: -- or a hug.
SAUNDERS: Well -- there are other ways of getting a job like sending a resume. I need your help, in what way? I mean, this sounds like something that`s just beginning.
And I mean going back to Mark David Chapman --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
SAUNDERS: -- before he killed John Lennon he actually had approached him and asked him to sign a copy of his record for him.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
SAUNDERS: You know, very nice and sweet. And then comes back a little later and we wind up with John Lennon being killed.
BEHAR: Ok.
SAUNDERS: So that`s why I take it seriously.
BEHAR: When we come back in the next segment, I would like to ask you, Rhonda, what makes somebody turn from a stalker to a murder? You alluded to this case with John Lennon.
We`ll be right back with that.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, filmmaker Kevin Smith drops by to talk about his controversial new film, "Red State". Now, back to Joy.
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel discussing Mark Zuckerberg`s stalker. You know, it`s ironic isn`t it that Zuckerberg basically created Facebook so he could stalk his girlfriend, according to the movie "Social Network." And here he is being stalked.
My mother used to say, don`t spit up in the air, it comes back in your face.
Listen, not that he deserves it. I`m just saying it`s ironic.
COEN: The Internet is equal opportunity.
BEHAR: Yes. You know, whenever you invent something new, all sorts of new things come in.
Let me ask you something, Rhonda, what I was just about to ask you about. How does a stalker become a murderer? What is the jumping off point there or the tipping point?
SAUNDERS: Ok. Stalking is not about love or not about someone trying to find a job, but what it`s about is rage and anger and rejection. That`s when we see the escalation, when they think, oh, this is going to be easy, I`m going to walk right into this person`s life. They want to be linked to that person, the notoriety. And then when they start to get the rejection that their e-mails aren`t being returned or they show up at their house and get a door slammed in their face, then that turns to anger.
BEHAR: Yes.
SAUNDERS: I mean look at Robert Bardo who killed the young actress Rebecca Schaffer. He showed up with teddy bears and candy and was rejected. And then he showed up and found out where she lived -- and we`re talking about back in 1989 -- found out where she lived and this time showed up with a gun with hollow point bullets because he felt the rejection and anger. That`s when they cross that line.
BEHAR: He also found her address from the DMV I understand.
COEN: Right. Yes.
BEHAR: I mean it`s access to people, celebrities` addresses. You know? Some of these stalkers are attracted to celebrities I see. People are stalked in all walks of life. It`s not just celebrities.
COEN: Right.
BEHAR: But it seems as though -- is it the visibility of the celebrity that draws them there or what?
COEN: Yes. It`s the tabloid culture. We`re fascinated with these people who run Hollywood, who are a source of entertainment. And now with tabloids and celebrity weeklies we follow their lives like they`re soap operas as if they`re characters, but they`re not characters. They`re real people with real addresses and real registries with the DMV.
BEHAR: Is there more stalking now of celebrities than there was in the past?
COEN: I mean we use the word stalk really casually now.
BEHAR: Yes. What does the word mean now?
COEN: Now you say stalking very much like I was stalking my friend on Facebook, or my friend`s ex-boyfriend on Facebook. And you mean it in this kind of quiet passive -- I`m just looking to see what they`re up to.
It`s like people watching. You`re sitting and you`re watching the people, but it becomes stalking, stalking when you get up off the bench and follow that person home.
BEHAR: Then it becomes threatening.
COEN: Right.
SAUNDERS: Well, actually you don`t -- no. You don`t have to follow the person. You can stalk someone on the Internet. You can stalk someone on the phone. You don`t have to have a physical presence right in front of the victim.
COEN: Well, right. But I`m talking about the way stalking is referred to now casually when it`s more of a passive thing, you`re not reaching out. When it becomes threatening is when someone actually sends that first e-mail or tries to make contact with the person. The way we live now everything`s online. Everything`s public.
BEHAR: Rhonda, really fast --
SAUNDERS: It makes it a lot easier.
BEHAR: Really fact -- I have not even 30 seconds. What should someone do if they think they`re being stalked?
SAUNDERS: Well, first of all, they need to report it.
BEHAR: Report it.
SAUNDERS: They have to let people know that this is going on. They need to cooperate if it`s escalating, with the police, with prosecutors. Keep in mind the majority of stalking cases are not celebrity cases.
BEHAR: Right.
SAUNDERS: They`re everyday cases, primarily domestic violence. They need to let friends know. Family know. So they have extra eyes and ears. And they need to take it seriously because they could wind up dead.
BEHAR: How about sending somebody to threaten them? Does that work? Go and say, listen, if you go near my sister again, you`re going to be in trouble. I mean would that work?
SAUNDERS: That doesn`t work at all. It`s a different mindset completely. If they have a police officer show up on their doorstep --
BEHAR: That`s different.
SAUNDERS: -- that might work. Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you, ladies, very much. We`ll be right back.
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", breaking Grammy news. Will the Grammys set the stage for Christina Aguilera`s redemption? At 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK, attention, liberals. Keith Olbermann has landed a new gig. He`s going to Al Gore`s Current TV as its chief news officer and will be hosting a nightly primetime show starting in the spring. Will it be a good show, or will it be the worst show in the world?
With me now to talk about this and other stories in the news are actress Sheryl Lee Ralph, Don Jamieson, comedian and co-host of "That Metal Show" on VH-1 Classic, and Rachel Sklar, editor-at-large for Mediaite.com.
Sheryl, is this a good home for Olbermann?
SHERYL LEE RALPH, ACTRESS: It`s an absolute great show for Olbermann because I like, you know, Current TV because it`s got that stuff that`s really current and so good, you`ll never see it on TV. So finally, somebody`s going to be able to really pinpoint on Current TV.
BEHAR: Do you mean to tell me you know where Current TV is?
(LAUGHTER)
RALPH: I know where Current TV is!
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
DON JAMIESON, COMEDIAN: It`s harder to find than Osama bin Laden!
(CROSSTALK)
RALPH: ... good. He`s going to be great on it. They need him. Current TV needs Olbermann!
BEHAR: What do you think? What do you guys think?
RACHEL SKLAR, EDITOR-AT-LARGE, MEDIAITE.COM: They need something. I mean, and this is a great move for Olbermann, too. He gets to say that, you know, Current is starting from, you know, not the position of being the highest-rated...
BEHAR: That`s right.
SKLAR: ... network on cable. So he`s going to be able to say, I built up a network again because he`s going to bring people in.
RALPH: Right. Right.
SKLAR: And Olbermann is most comfortable as an underdog. He really is.
(CROSSTALK)
JAMIESON: You`re going to go from TV to the Internet? Was he sleeping his way to the bottom?
(LAUGHTER)
JAMIESON: I heard Bill O`Reilly`s going to do a podcast from his grandmother`s basement.
RALPH: Yes, right.
SKLAR: Isn`t that where Limbaugh does it from?
RALPH: Well, he`s going to make them top dog. I really think Olbermann is going to be great for Current.
BEHAR: Yes, but you know, they got -- they got rid of him over at MSNBC -- rather nastily, I thought. They don`t like his personality. Comcast came in. They didn`t like him backstage. That`s what I heard. Comcast came in, and it`s possible that that had something to do with his demise over there. And Comcast owns, what is it, 10 percent of Current TV.
SKLAR: I don`t think that was -- I mean, Olbermann has been brewing discontent over there for quite a while. If you remember, at the conventions in 2008, there was the on-air squabbling with Chris Matthews. And you know, he does -- you know, rumor has it that he would do things, like, he would -- You can`t talk to me, like, Slip a note under my door if you want to talk to me. There was a lot of, like...
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh! He`s a diva.
(CROSSTALK)
RALPH: You go, Mr. Olbermann! Join the diva clan. Don`t talk to me. Here`s the note. Did you read it? OK. Fine. Now you can talk to me. OK. Forget about it now.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, it sounds like you`re preparing for your next scene. So let`s talk about "Spiderman." Now, this play has been, like, a disaster from the giddyap. And it`s being panned by the critics. It hasn`t even opened yet. I mean, do they have it in for this play or what, Sheryl?
RALPH: They want to make this musical the biggest hit ever. Never in my life have I ever heard of a flop that`s a hit. It`s the biggest flop. It`s gotten the worst reviews. And they`ve sold more tickets than anybody. They haven`t even opened and they`ve got incredible advance sales.
BEHAR: Well, you know, last month, the show raked in over a million dollars a week. Is that because people like a train wreck, or is it because they paid already for the tickets?
(CROSSTALK)
JAMIESON: Both. You know people love a train wreck. And no offense to Charlie Sheen, Lindsay Lohan and Snooki...
(LAUGHTER)
JAMIESON: ... but this play is like the Amtrak of musicals.
RALPH: Absolutely.
JAMIESON: I don`t understand why they`re combining comic books with Broadway. It`s totally two different audiences, right? I don`t know one 9-year-old kid who would go out and get...
RALPH: I think that`s the base of their audience. That`s who`s coming to the show.
JAMIESON: Who, parents?
RALPH: People are -- no, these nerds` kids. And they`re paying $100 for their kids to sit in the balcony to see "Spiderman" on the stage.
SKLAR: Right. And fly across the audience, and hopefully...
RALPH: Drop in their laps!
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
RALPH: Everybody wants that front seat, front row seat so they can have that body drop!
BEHAR: They`re waiting for a disaster.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Speaking of disasters, you know who really likes the play? Glenn Beck. He loves the play. Now, why is that?
SKLAR: Because of its classic themes, you know, of good versus evil. I think he`s really into that.
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: ... depending on who you`re casting what role.
BEHAR: Yes, he has a black-and-white simple way of looking at the world. So this suits him very well.
JAMIESON: Really?
BEHAR: Yes. Exactly.
RALPH: Glenn Beck, I say, Mmm, mmm, mmm!
BEHAR: Why do you do that? What does that mean? You don`t want to talk about him?
RALPH: Oh, don`t want to talk about him.
SKLAR: It`s too bad no one ever talks about Glenn Beck. It`s really a problem.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, now another story. Simon Cowell. He has a new show called the "X Factor," OK? Now, This thing is not opening until the fall, and yet he`s around talking about it. They`re going to give a $5 million record contract to the winner, and he`s scared that that`s a lot of money. Does he just need attention because J. Lo is getting all the hoopla right now?
RALPH: Absolutely! You mean they`re getting along without me? Oh, no! Got to do something about this now. We`re going to give away $5 million. Yes, that`s it! And I`m going to talk about it! And we`ll announce the first judge and it will be who? It will be me as the first judge!
(LAUGHTER)
RALPH: You go, Simon! Work it, Simon! I love you!
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And the Emmy goes to Sheryl Lee Ralph!
JAMIESON: Excellent performance.
BEHAR: OK, what do you think about all this?
SKLAR: Oh, I have to follow that? Wonderful. You know, Simon Cowell is not an idiot. If "Spiderman" had put him in charge, I think it might actually be a good show. But he is -- you know, this is marketing money, $5 million of marketing money.
JAMIESON: So many talent shows, though, Joy. I mean, the talent is getting diluted. Like, can you imagine giving $5 million to that kid who won "Idol" last year. I don`t even remember his name. I know he delivered a pizza to me in under 30 minutes yesterday, though.
(LAUGHTER)
JAMIESON: The only thing Simon should be worried about is those tight sweaters that show off his man boobs.
SKLAR: Wow! Cutting words.
BEHAR: That was deep. You know, the thing about this show, the "X Factor," is that you can be a contestant when you`re 12 years old over there. It`s not like "American Idol," where you have to be over, what, 18 or something?
RALPH: Right.
SKLAR: They`re looking for the next Bieber.
BEHAR: OK, they`re -- but what about...
RALPH: They`re looking for the next embryo! As long as it comes out singing, they don`t care! Here!
BEHAR: OK, but what about the fact that Simon Cowell, who`s made his reputation on being snarky and nasty and mean, OK? So now, you can`t be mean to a 12-year-old.
SKLAR: I think Simon could get away with it.
RALPH: Oh, he`s going to get away with it.
BEHAR: Really? That`s going to turn the public against him. You cannot be mean to a kid.
RALPH: He`s going to send them to detention and make them sing that song 100 times, and come back when you get it right! Watch him.
BEHAR: Would you go on the "X Factor?"
RALPH: Absolutely. And I would judge and I`d be the nice judge to Simon Cowell`s sort of abrasive judge.
BEHAR: Well, what about if the contestant -- let`s say you were a young person now looking for a career?
RALPH: For $5 million?
BEHAR: Yes. Which one would you pick, the "X Factor" or "American Idol"?
RALPH: If I was a young kid, I would pick the "X Factor" because I want that $5 million, and I`ve got a 50/50 chance of losing both, so what the heck?
BEHAR: OK!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Now, here`s another story. Michael Moore -- you know, he did "Fahrenheit 9/11," and now he`s suing the Weinsteins, Harvey and his brother Bob Weinstein, for money. He says that they didn`t pay him.
SKLAR: Such a coincidence that the Weinsteins just happen to be up for an Oscar!
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And he`s not.
SKLAR: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, there you go!
BEHAR: So where are you going with that?
SKLAR: You know, who knows what the actual facts are because they haven`t done an audit and all the rest of it. But just, you know, Michael Moore has excellent timing. He never, you know, found a spotlight he didn`t like.
BEHAR: Oh, you think that`s what it`s about?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Maybe the Weinsteins owe him money. Can a liberal take money from other people?
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: You know, it`s convenient timing. It`s...
RALPH: Perfect timing.
SKLAR: At this point, with Michael Moore, I`m not -- I mean, I loved and appreciated many of his films, but there`s no question that he`s mastered the art of the attention-getting stunt.
RALPH: Right.
JAMIESON: I think they should give him the money and buy a decent outfit for himself.
(LAUGHTER)
JAMIESON: Guy`s 56 years old, he still wears a baseball cap and a "members only" jacket.
BEHAR: That`s his persona coming through, you know?
JAMIESON: I wore that when I was 15.
BEHAR: I`m not sure that he -- that the Weinsteins should mess with him because he could make a movie about him.
RALPH: On them!
BEHAR: I mean, he made...
(CROSSTALK)
SKLAR: ... movie. I would love to see that!
JAMIESON: No, but you know that? Then people would take the Weinstein side because that movie got George Bush reelected single-handedly because people felt bad for George Bush after they watched that movie.
BEHAR: Really?
JAMIESON: Yes.
BEHAR: Reading "My Pet Goat" when they`re telling him about 9/11 makes people feel sorry for Bush?
JAMIESON: They did! They felt sorry for Bush!
SKLAR: I didn`t feel sorry for him.
JAMIESON: Mel Gibson wants him to make a movie about him now.
SKLAR: Fantastic.
BEHAR: OK. All right, thank you guys very much.
And a quick note. Sheryl Lee Ralph is the producer of the documentary "Kiss and Tell" -- I wonder what that`s about -- premiering at the 2011 Pan-African Festival on February 21st.
We`ll be back in a minute with Kevin Smith. Oh, he`s got a lot of politics and things to talk about, Kevin Smith.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Kevin Smith is a director, a writer, an actor and a full-time provocateur. His pointed, satirical comedy "Dogma" angered religious fundamentalists, and his new movie "Red State" promises to be no less controversial. I`m happy to welcome the always shy and retiring Kevin Smith. Hello, Kevin.
KEVIN SMITH, WRITER/DIRECTOR "RED STATE": I dress like a circus clown, I`ve been told recently. Somebody finally put it on Front Street and said, Kevin, we (ph) treat you seriously because you dress like a child. And I was, like, But I thought that made me a winner. Like, if I could get a job in life where I could dress any way I want...
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
SMITH: I think that`s, like, Ta-da! I won the lottery.
BEHAR: Dress like a kid.
SMITH: Yes, yes. Well, you`re on the road (ph). Stuff doesn`t fit me well, either, Joy. To be honest, you know, I`ve spent most of my life yo-yoing in terms of weight.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
SMITH: So it`s always easier to wear a hockey jersey because, like, I`ve lost 65 pounds. I`m still wearing the same jersey I was wearing before I lost the 65, but you wouldn`t know because it`s all air. I like to wear, like -- I call up Omar the tent maker. I`m, like, Get me a hockey jersey. And he takes all the rayon, all this material, from some poor kids up in Manitoba who will never play hockey this year, and makes my jersey for me.
BEHAR: That`s adorable!
SMITH: It`s a whole team I`m wearing! I`m wearing 12 kids on my chest!
BEHAR: Why don`t you show your fabulous abs now that you`ve lost the weight?
SMITH: Because (INAUDIBLE) I feel mixed feelings about losing the weight. I sympathize far more with heavier people than I ever will with thin. I`ll never be thin. Look...
BEHAR: Why not?
SMITH: ... let`s be honest. I`ve lost 65 pounds, but nobody`s going, I want to sleep with you. They`re just, like, keep going. You look better. Keep going.
BEHAR: You`re very handsome.
SMITH: You`re very sweet.
BEHAR: You`re very handsome. Take the...
SMITH: You mentioned something about my glasses...
BEHAR: Take the glasses off and show everyone how gorgeous you are. Look at that!
SMITH: I`m not gorgeous. I`m a 40-year-old man.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You`re very pretty, actually.
SMITH: Thank you. You`re very sweet. I`ll come talk to you all the time. So for me, I just...
BEHAR: But you were traumatized 65 pounds heavier. I know about that.
SMITH: I was traumatized.
BEHAR: On the plane. What happened?
SMITH: I was on a plane. That happened.
BEHAR: Tell me that.
SMITH: I was on this Southwest plane. And at one point, they asked me to get off the plane. And at first, let everybody assume that it was because I was overweight, because I couldn`t buckle the seatbelt or because I couldn`t put the armrest down, but that wasn`t the case. I was in my seat, buckled up, my armrests were down, and they still pulled me off the plane. And because I look like I do, they were, like, Well, fat people should buy two seats, shouldn`t they? And the whole thin world is, like, yes, they should, I hate fat people.
And it wasn`t even the case. They pulled me off the plane, even though I was (INAUDIBLE) for a reason they still to this day never made clear. First they said, The pilot said you were too heavy. And I was, like, The pilot can`t even see me. If I can`t see the pilot, how can he see me?
BEHAR: That`s right.
SMITH: And they put that in a blog. That was their official story. And then two days later, without telling anybody, they removed that because the pilot was, like, I didn`t say jack (EXPLETIVE DELETED). This guy`s yelling my name everywhere, and you put -- you threw me under the bus!
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: So they changed their story, but never once said, still, why I was taken off the plane. But because I was heavy, heavier, people were just, like, Well, guilt by -- you know, you profiled. You look the part. So I felt at that moment -- I was, like, You know what? I`ll lose the weight...
BEHAR: What were you...
SMITH: ... but I`m not putting on thinner clothes because -- why? What`s the difference?
BEHAR: Well, because you...
SMITH: I`m the same person I was 65 pounds heavier.
BEHAR: You still identify as being...
SMITH: I will forever, yes.
BEHAR: ... heavily overweight. And you`re not. You`re getting thinner. Enjoy it, OK?
SMITH: No, I can`t. I have to talk about it, obviously.
BEHAR: Did you feel humiliated on the plane?
SMITH: That -- it wasn`t humiliation. It was -- what frustrated me more than anyone in the world was I felt like nobody told the real story. The real story was I was a consumer that a company F`d with...
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: ... poorly and without good reason, and I spoke up about it.
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: That to me is the story.
BEHAR: OK.
SMITH: Like, I -- but to everyone else, it was fat guy in a little chair!
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: So I understand. I understand. That`s a funnier story to tell. But mercifully, I`ve been fat my whole life, so I`ve built up enough scar tissue where that didn`t matter. But I will be honest with you. Because I tweeted about, like, I`m a big, fat dude, and I said "fat" in my tweets, every news agency on the planet, on Google news that I saw, felt they were free to call me fat in their headlines. Now, some were good about it, putting it in quotes, saying, We`re just using his terminology.
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: But then you had people like "The Philadelphia Daily News" who just wrote, Blimp landed, with a picture of me.
BEHAR: See -- you see, I had a shrink -- I had a shrink...
SMITH: Thank you! They`re all laughing. They`re, like, That is kind of funny. It was funny, "Blimp landed," but that`s not the point. I didn`t call myself a blimp. They can`t -- you know what I`m saying? They went off the grid on that.
BEHAR: You gave the enemy ammunition against you. That`s stupid.
SMITH: But didn`t feel like...
BEHAR: Don`t do that!
SMITH: ... I was giving them ammunition. Also, I`m not...
BEHAR: Well, once you said...
SMITH: ... in a war. There`s no...
BEHAR: ... you were fat, they had license to call you fat.
SMITH: Yes, but that -- number one, I didn`t view the press as the enemy. You know, I didn`t know that they were going to be, like, He called himself fat, everybody. Let`s call him fat in the headline. We can do it! Because it`s rare. You can`t normally -- think about it. You can`t go after somebody in a headline and be, like, They`re fat, without somebody being, like, I could sue you for saying that. That`s libel. It`s slanderous. But because I had written about it myself, they`re, like, He said it. He`s saying it. He says he`s way fat. Let`s call him a blimp.
BEHAR: OK...
SMITH: So that -- that -- it didn`t -- it wasn`t humiliating because I`ve always been heavy. And people -- Look at that dude. He`s fat. Chicks turn me down for hands (ph), you know, back in the day in high school. I don`t want to be too graphic. Because I was a heavy dude, you don`t get a lot of play, Joy, only from ladies like yourself who are, like, You`re handsome because you`ve been around in the world and you know sometimes a fat dude has a lot to offer, if I can just get past the blubber. And that`s -- that`s kind of what I feel...
BEHAR: Can I ask you a question?
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: Are you on amphetamines?
SMITH: No, I just -- I know I`ve got eight minutes, so I got...
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Look, I watch a lot of interviews and I see people sit there as boring as hell. They`re just, like, yes. Yes, I felt that way once. I believe, if you`re going to put me on television, I better to be entertaining as heck. And I got to get in as much information as possible.
BEHAR: But would you like to promote your movie?
SMITH: Oh, not necessary.
BEHAR: OK. Good!
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Unnecessary. I`d rather just sit here and talk to you.
BEHAR: OK. So what else do you want to talk about?
SMITH: Anything you want, man. I`m good at this. This is the only thing I`m good at is answering questions for a living.
BEHAR: Well, one of the things that I found out about you is that you and I have in common that Bill Donohue from the Catholic League...
SMITH: Oh, what a prince of a man he is!
BEHAR: ... is pissed off at both of us.
SMITH: Why did he go after you?
BEHAR: Well, because I sort of -- you know, I criticized the sexual abuse scandal in the church. And I was raised a Catholic. I feel that I have the right to say what I say.
SMITH: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And it`s a free country. He gets very annoyed with that.
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: ... Hey, not every priest did those children.
BEHAR: But we know that, not every priest.
SMITH: Of course we know that.
BEHAR: But the ones who did it...
SMITH: The fact of the matter is, if there`s one, it`s one too many in an organization that is all about not that, the opposite of that. And you can`t fault the whole organization for a few bad apples. But start weeding the bad apples out, and you won`t catch any guff. This dude, Bill Donohue, went after me for "Dogma." He`s the head of this group called the Catholic League, self-appointed. I found him to be kind of empty rhetoric because he went after us and he was, like, It`s our job to stop this movie. He got to the point where Disney and Miramax sold the movie off.
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: But it was still going to get released by Lion`s Gate. And he announced victories, like, We made Disney drop the movie, so now we`re victorious. But I was, like, Dude, the movie`s still coming out. But he didn`t go after Lion`s Gate...
BEHAR: What was he pissed about?
SMITH: ... because they don`t have a theme park.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
SMITH: They don`t have a network.
BEHAR: Oh.
SMITH: They don`t -- you know what I`m saying? He goes after the big guns. And once we were away from Disney, he was, like, Well, you know, it`s no longer a sin if nobody`s going to see it at Disney. I don`t know - - his logic was empty. And at that point...
BEHAR: Well, he`s getting paid...
SMITH: ... I looked at it and I said, This dude is a windbag. Like, if he really believed in the cause, he would have fought me all the way up until the moment of release. He would have barred himself in front of the theater doors. All he wanted was the attention you get from going after Miramax, which was owned by Disney at that point.
BEHAR: Right.
SMITH: And if you say in a crowded room, Mickey Mouse hates Jesus, people pay attention. They start writing stories about it.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes, yes, yes.
SMITH: The moment I was with Lion`s Gate, Lion`s Gate didn`t have any the sturm and drang, the family-oriented kind of thing on their shoulders, so they didn`t go after them. And I thought that was empty. To me, I was, like, If you believe in it, I can respect you. But you don`t really believe in it.
BEHAR: But why is it...
SMITH: He just wants press.
BEHAR: Why is it so dangerous to talk about religion in this country? You know, Bill Maher...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Think about it, so many people base who they are on their faith and what they believe to be in this life and in the next.
BEHAR: Fine. That`s great.
SMITH: If you rub up against those lines with anybody -- look, my mother`s Catholic, raised Catholic, goes to church every day. And I was trying to talk to her about that movie, what was it, "Deliver Us From Evil," the documentary about the priests. One particularly Irish priest...
BEHAR: I have to take a break. We`ll be back with more with...
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the very shy director Kevin Smith. Also...
SMITH: Let me finish. So my mother -- no.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You`re also a movie actor. You`re not just a director.
SMITH: Sometimes. Yes, but acting, let`s use that term very loose. I`ve been in some movies.
BEHAR: OK.
SMITH: Let`s leave it at that.
BEHAR: All right.
SMITH: I played in my movies as Silent Bob, so I didn`t really have to talk.
BEHAR: Really? That must have been torture for you.
SMITH: Wasn`t it? For years, I said nothing. That`s like now, I`m, like, ba, ba, ba, ba, ba!
BEHAR: OK, now, the movie Red State...
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: ... which is your new film...
SMITH: That`s the latest flick we`ve done.
BEHAR: Tell me about that. You say it`s a horror movie...
SMITH: I keep calling it a horror movie. Everyone else says it`s a satire, it`s an action thriller. To me, it`s a horror movie because it`s about horrific topics. We kind of -- you know the Phelps family?
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: America`s favorite family, God hates everything...
BEHAR: Yes, tell everybody who they are.
SMITH: Westboro Baptist Church. These are the cats that kind of go out, protest soldiers` funerals when they come home.
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: Back in the day, long before the soldiers` thing, which is heart-breaking to all of us, they went after Matthew Shepard, poor kid who was killed in Wyoming...
BEHAR: That`s right.
SMITH: ... hung on a fence because he was gay. They wanted to erect a statue that says, Matthew Shepherd entered hell on this spot, such and such. These are the people that, like, you`ve lost a loved one, they show up at your funeral and make it worse by holding up signs telling you these people are going to hell. These cats have been around with us for a while. You don`t need that in your life. And just recently, they were going after the little 9-year-old girl that got shot in Arizona during that recent (INAUDIBLE)
BEHAR: Right.
SMITH: These cats have been around with us for a while now. We`re all kind of -- we`ve seen the signs. We know what they look like, general idea. I felt like, Let`s kind of take that, an extremely religious fundamentalist family, and create a horror convention with it. Like, kind of the same way people looked at Dean (ph) in Wisconsin and turned that into Norman Bates and "Psycho." I was, like, let`s start with this family. Like, just imagine you had a religious family, not the Phelpses, but a family like them, who, you know, hold up the signs. They`re all about the word of God. They can`t penetrate in this immoral society. Where would they go next? And I extrapolated, OK, maybe they just take the Bible, start killing in the name of God, using it as justification.
BEHAR: I see.
SMITH: So for me, I was, like, Let`s do this little $4 million horror movie kind of taking off on the idea of the Westboro Baptist Church as if it was "The Texas Chainsaw Murders."
BEHAR: But why do you call it "Red State"? I mean, these are just one particular group.
SMITH: Because there`s blood in the movie. It`s a horror movie.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. But...
SMITH: I`m not that clever. I know it sounds, like, political...
BEHAR: Yes.
SMITH: ... but really, I was literally, like, Do I call it "Blood State" or "Red State"? And I said "Red State."
BEHAR: I see. You`re pretending -- you`re saying now that you didn`t plan that.
SMITH: I`m not political, Joy. I`m a fat, masturbating stoner. I have no politics.
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: None whatsoever.
BEHAR: Stop it! You`re turning me on!
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: I`m your dream! I`m always around the house. I`m willing to please. I cook. I`m very oral. We`ll talk.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Now, keep your eyes peeled for "Red State" coming to theaters in October. Now, before we...
SMITH: It comes March 5th. Can they -- they can go see it across the country.
BEHAR: Oh.
SMITH: We`re doing a little tour. Let me do that much.
BEHAR: Sure.
SMITH: March 5th, we start this tour. I`m going to take the movie out before it comes out in October state to state and show the movie and do Q&A after it. We start March 5th at Radio City Music Hall, and then we end April 9th at the Wiltshire (ph) in Los Angeles, and we hit all the great cities between...
BEHAR: OK...
SMITH: (INAUDIBLE)
BEHAR: OK, now, before we go, do you mind if I have a final thought on something that has no bearing on what you just said?
SMITH: I`ll try to be quiet for you.
BEHAR: You don`t have to be quiet.
SMITH: But I`ll be honest, it`s going to be difficult for me.
BEHAR: I just have these thoughts going on in my head.
SMITH: I got to hear it.
BEHAR: Oh, here it goes. Donald Rumsfeld -- you know who he is, right?
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: He`s written a new memoir called "Known and Unknown." And it so happens that Bristol Palin also has her memoir coming out in June. From what I understand, America is in for some great reading. For instance, in his memoir, Rumsfeld says he should have resigned after the horrific and indefensible Abu Ghraib scandal, OK?
SMITH: Fair enough.
BEHAR: For her part, Bristol went to the junior prom.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. And wait a second. The bombshells...
SMITH: Tough decisions across the board.
BEHAR: ... don`t stop there. Rumsfeld also said Condoleezza Rice lacked experience and Colin Powell showed poor judgment. Bristol says Levi Johnston was her boyfriend.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Finally, Rumsfeld tells us how he managed two wars at the same time, while Bristol will tell us how she managed to last for eight weeks on "Dancing With the Stars." It`s amazing! It`s almost like they lived the same life.
(LAUGHTER)
SMITH: Yes.
BEHAR: Don`t you think?
SMITH: I love when political books come out.
BEHAR: So do it.
SMITH: Because you get to see behind the curtain, and now we`ll see behind Bristol`s curtain, as well.
BEHAR: It`s lovely to have you here...
(CROSSTALK)
SMITH: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Good night, everybody.
END
