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Joy Behar Page
State of the Unions; Country Singer Tim McGraw
Aired February 23, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, protests in Wisconsin spread to other states as unions circle the wagons against GOP attacks. So are unions being targeted in order to crush a major source of Democratic funding, or is this truly about balancing budgets?
Then, country superstar Tim McGraw talks music, family, and the troops.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Working people of America need to pay attention to this story, because unions may soon be a thing of the past. Republicans say they need to make changes to unions in order to balance the budget, but union workers are calling their bluff, saying the GOP is simply trying to union bust. So what is the truth?
Here now with me and to give me his take on it is James Hoffa, president of the International Brotherhood of Teamsters. Hey, Jim, welcome to the show. I have to tell you, my father was a Teamster. He worked for Coca-Cola.
JAMES HOFFA, PRESIDENT, INTERNATIONAL BROTHERHOOD OF TEAMSTERS: Oh, good.
BEHAR: Yes. And he revered your father. I`m just saying.
HOFFA: He`s a great man.
BEHAR: My father --
HOFFA: Very good, thank you, joy.
BEHAR: My father needed a union very badly, and when he retired, my mother could live on the pension and we had health insurance all those years. Because I don`t think we would have made it without the union, without the Teamsters. And I want to say that to you right now.
HOFFA: A lot of people don`t talk about those things, but a lot of retirees here are saying the same thing.
BEHAR: Very important.
Now, let`s talk about these Republicans. Are they lying when they say it`s only about the budget? Are they really trying to just bust and destroy all unions?
HOFFA: Absolutely. I`m here in Madison, Wisconsin right now. We just had a tremendous rally, and the energy here is, we`re fighting back. And what`s happening is that right now, there`s an effort to bust the union out. What`s happening is that people here have reached out and said, hey, if there`s a problem with the budget, we`ll work it out, but we don`t want to lose our right to collective bargaining.
And the governor said I won`t talk to you. I won`t do anything with it. I want you to lose collective bargaining. Collective bargaining is what this is all about and we`re fighting for it right now. This rally, we`ve got people here from all over the country. I`m here for the Teamsters. We`ve got people from all over Wisconsin, from Chicago and Ohio, they`re here in solidarity with these people that are standing up, the public employees of the state of Wisconsin.
BEHAR: The other thing about it is, it seems as though they really want to break the legs of unions, as far as I can tell, because the unions provide votes for Democrats. So this is a great way, isn`t it, to get rid of those voters, and all of those votes, by busting the unions and therefore, you know, what do you think about that?
HOFFA: Well, it`s no secret, they have filed right to work in 13 states. This is a plan, a nationwide plan, to knock unions out once and for all. And they`re not going to succeed.
Right. They know how strong we are with progressive forces. We want progressive people to be in office, whether they be a governor, whether they be a president or people in the house or the senate or the state or federal level, and we want to make sure the right people get in. And they realize that we are the ones who put boots on the ground, we`re the ones who support them, we`re the ones who sign up for people to vote, and they don`t like that.
So their idea is to knock unions out, start with the public employees, then knock everybody out. That`s a plan; they want to roll the clock back to 1890. That`s their plan.
BEHAR: Right. Just kill everybody, all the benefits that we fought for, for 100 years. Let me play you something from a blogger, a prank caller. I don`t know if you know about this. This guy called --
HOFFA: I heard about it. Everybody`s talking about it here.
BEHAR: I`m going to play it for you. He called Governor Walker and pretended to be this David Koch, this extremely rich Tea Party supporter, who has given a lot of money and a lot of support to the Republicans. Listen to the call.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, I`ll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I`ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a great time.
GOV. SCOTT WALKER (R), WISCONSIN: All right. That would be outstanding. Thanks for all the support in helping us move the cause forward. We appreciate it and we`re doing the just and right thing for the right reasons and it`s all about getting our freedoms back.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So the governor is reacting to this prankster, this blogger, who is pretending to be one of the Koch brothers, and is agreeing with it. He`s saying, all right, that would be outstanding, to crush these bastards.
HOFFA: That`s exactly what they`re talking about. The working people of this country, they think they`re the enemy. And they`re going after them. You know, that conversation tells it all right there, of who they think they are. To call working men and women bastards, to go out and to go after people like, you know, the people that are here. The people that work hard, the teachers, the nurses; all the people that are involved in this movement is unbelievable. I think that conversation, you know, it makes it so this governor should be recalled once and for all.
BEHAR: And you know, the unions already --
HOFFA: Absolutely. Should be recalled.
BEHAR: I mean, do you think the union workers have to make any concessions at all? I mean, you`ve made a few concessions already, have you not?
HOFFA: Well, the story here is that the unions here say if there`s a problem, 137 million, we`ll sit down and we`ll work on working that out, but we don`t want to lose collective bargaining.
And the governor said, I don`t want to talk to you about anything. Your collective bargaining has got to go. And everybody knows in the union, you`ve got to have collective bargaining to have any kind of power.
So he realizes it`s not about the budget. This is about ideology. This is about crushing unions. And what`s going on here is not just going on in Wisconsin. All of a sudden, it`s going on in Missouri, it`s going on in Ohio, it`s going on in Indiana. All over the country this is going on in the states where they`ve taken over with Republican governors.
And what it is, it`s a playbook. It`s basically a "crush the union playbook" that they`re all using. So we`ve got to start here. This is the first leg of the fight and we`re going to win here and we`re going to win in Indiana and we`re going to win in Ohio, and we`re going to win across the country.
BEHAR: Thank you very much.
HOFFA: That`s what we`re going to do.
BEHAR: Ok, thanks very much.
HOFFA: Thank you.
BEHAR: Now I want to turn to somebody who has a very different point of view: Republican state senator from Wisconsin, Glenn Grothman. Hello, senator. I want to play a clip of a protest in Wisconsin yesterday for you, ok. Watch -- or listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRAD LUTES, WISCONSIN PHYSICAL EDUCATION TEACHER: What you`re trying to sell to the nation as a solution to our state`s budget problem is nothing more than a political move to silence the voice of employees in their workplace. That bothers me, a lot. My workplace is my student`s school. And it`s wrong to take the voice of a teacher from their classroom.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Senator, the union is one of the few influential groups that doesn`t represent the wealthy in this country. Isn`t that an important part of a democracy?
GLENN GROTHMAN (R) WISCONSIN STATE SENATE: Oh, that`s not true at all. The vast majority of people in the state of Wisconsin are not wealthy and don`t belong to unions. The vast majority of people who call me and say to hold the line and support Governor Walker are people of very modest means.
They don`t have the super-strong job security or generous pensions that the public employees have. I love the public employees.
BEHAR: But all those people that you`re talking about, they can`t rely on the Republicans to protect them, so they need the unions, these people.
GROTHMAN: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely. Most people in the state of Wisconsin are not members of unions and the Republicans do look out for them.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
GROTHMAN: That`s exactly --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How do Republicans look out for them? How? Tell me how?
GROTHMAN: They look out for them by keeping their property taxes down, by trying to promote a good working environment.
BEHAR: Really?
GROTHMAN: By trying to keep the tuition reasonable -- absolutely. Right down the line.
BEHAR: Then why is this country --
GROTHMAN: To me the Republican Party is the party of the average guy.
BEHAR: Then why is this country in so much financial trouble. You guys are the ones who deregulated everything and overspent in the Bush years.
GROTHMAN: Oh, absolutely not.
BEHAR: Oh, no?
GROTHMAN: The Wall Street is the one of the two classes of wealthy people (INAUDIBLE). The Republican Party is the party of the average guy, trying to hold down their taxes, trying to create a good working environment.
BEHAR: Ok. There`s a Gallup poll that shows 61 percent of Americans oppose eliminating collective bargaining rights. So aren`t you going against the will --
GROTHMAN: Well, it`s not --
BEHAR: You`re going against the will of the people.
GROTHMAN: Oh, absolutely not. No, Scott Walker`s maintaining collective bargaining. But on some items, you cannot have collective bargaining, because the unions will continue to drive up the cost of cities, counties, and schools. So there comes a point in which we need the right to have elected officials who were voted for the average guy, determine what the public employees will do.
BEHAR: Ok, let me ask you about -- who`s -- it`s hard to hear you, but we`ll try. Let me ask you about this prank call I was just playing for James Hoffa. This guy, a blogger, called up Governor Walker and pretended to be one of the Koch brothers, ok, and this is what he said, pretending to be a Koch brother. He said, "Well, I`ll tell you what, Scott, once you crush these bastards, I`ll fly you out to Cali and really show you a good time, ok." It was a fake call. But Governor Walker responded like this, "All right, that would be outstanding."
It sounds as though he agrees with the caller, by calling working people bastards and crushing bastards. That does not make Mr. Walker look very good in my opinion. Oh, you don`t think so?
GROTHMAN: I`ve known Scott Walker for a long time.
BEHAR: Oh, yes?
GROTHMAN: Scott Walker is an average. He`s not wealthy guy and (INAUDIBLE) And Scott`s a person who has repeatedly in the state legislature stood up to the special interests.
BEHAR: I see.
GROTHMAN: We are doing this for the average guy in the state of Wisconsin.
BEHAR: It`s interesting that you think you`re working for the average guy and the unions are working for the average guy.
From where I sit, it looks like the unions are working for the average person. I don`t see your record as being particularly helpful to working people. You were opposed to Headstart. You don`t believe that the Martin Luther King day should be a national holiday. I don`t see you really working for the people, frankly.
GROTHMAN: I look out, oh, absolutely -- we look out for the average guy. The average guy is the one that pays the property tax in the state, the sales tax in the state, the income tax in the state.
BEHAR: Oh, yes. Well --
(CROSS TALK)
GROTHMAN: And if we`re going to hold those things down and provide jobs for the average guy, we need a good business plan.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: A lot of people disagree with your position. Aren`t you afraid you might not get elected again? A lot of people disagree with you.
GROTHMAN: Well, we have to do the right thing.
BEHAR: Yes.
GROTHMAN: The average guy does not work for the government. We can look out for the government workers, but we have to remember not everybody works for the government.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much, sir. We`ll be back in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(TIM MCGRAW SINGING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Tim McGraw has not only been tearing up concert halls for years, he`s been starring on the silver screen as well. But today he is partnering up with Outback Steakhouse in an effort to help soldiers and their families.
Joining me now from San Antonio is Tim McGraw. Hey, Tim, how are you?
TIM MCGRAW, SINGER AND ACTOR: Well, good, how are you?
BEHAR: I`m good. It`s good to see you. Now, you know, a little bird told me --
(CROSS TALK)
MCGRAW: You too, it`s been a while.
BEHAR: It`s been a while. I know, well, you`ll have to come back on "The View" also with your lovely wife.
(CROSS TALK)
MCGRAW: I know.
BEHAR: You`re -- you`re a great couple. You`re a hot couple, Tim.
MCGRAW: Well, she -- she -- she makes me a whole lot better than I am. I can tell you that.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, that`s true of most couples. But anyway -- now, now, you know, you know, a little bird told me that you said that you would run for office some day. Now, first of all, on what ticket would you run, Democrat or Republican?
MCGRAW: Well, that must have been -- first of all, that must have been back in my drinking days when I said something like that. But, you know, look I -- I -- I`m -- I`ve been a Democrat my whole life. I`m sort of a dyed in the wool blue Democrat. I mean, I grew up in Louisiana. I -- I -- that`s just the way -- innate in me. But I -- but I -- you know I`m for the best policy, to tell you the truth.
But you won`t see me running anytime soon. That`s for sure. There`s too many skeletons in my closet, Joy.
BEHAR: Really?
MCGRAW: I don`t think I could put up with that.
BEHAR: What kind of skeletons are we talking about? Share it with us.
MCGRAW: No, no, no, no, no.
BEHAR: Come on. All right, all right. What -- I know a little bit about you --
(CROSS TALK)
MCGRAW: Those -- those who know, know.
BEHAR: Ok. So -- well, you know because President Bill Clinton said that you have got "it", you know, and that you`re very relatable, and he thinks -- that`s a -- that`s a big endorsement from Bill Clinton for you.
So if you want to run --
(CROSS TALK)
MCGRAW: I know, I mean -- I -- I -- I don`t -- I think that -- that would a long way away. I`ve got -- I`ve got to let my daughters grow up.
But you know, in all seriousness, this country has been -- been fantastic to me. I have had a great career, the career that I`ve had and the things that I`ve been able to do with my life, coming from where I came from wouldn`t happen in any other country. And if -- and if at any point in time I felt like that there`s something that I could do that could really help, then, you never say never.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: But as of right now, never.
BEHAR: I think that`s true of me too. I mean, imagine my big mouth in Libya, for example. You know what I mean? I would --
MCGRAW: Well, I think you`d do a great job.
BEHAR: Ok. But, you know, one of the things I found out about you that -- is that you didn`t know that Tug McGraw, the great baseball player, was your father until you were 11 years old, right? Is that true?
MCGRAW: Yes. Yes, I was 11. I -- I grew up in, you know, in Louisiana. I grew up with my mom and my stepdad and my sisters. My stepdad was a truck driver and we grew up right on the edge. And after my mom and my stepdad were divorced, I found my birth certificate in my mom`s closet and that`s how I found out.
BEHAR: And she didn`t tell you herself. Did you say to her, why didn`t you tell me this?
MCGRAW: Well, you know, it`s -- it`s a -- back then, you know, I guess it was such a stigma attached to something like that and, you know, my mom -- you know, my mom was trying to do the best thing that she could do.
BEHAR: Yes, of course.
MCGRAW: And I think that -- I think that -- yes, she was trying to do the best thing that she could do. And -- and, you know, everything turned out all right. So --
BEHAR: Yes, I`m -- I`ll say it turned out all right for you. But I mean, to be -- to be really related to someone like that, even I, who know nothing about sports, know who Tug McGraw was. He played for the Mets, right?
MCGRAW: Right, for the Mets and the Phillies, absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: He played for 21 years in the big leagues.
BEHAR: Fantastic.
The other thing I found, you were on the show "Who Do You Think You Are," the Lisa Kudrow show, and you found out that you were a distant relative of President George Washington. That`s interesting too. You have quite a genetic history, Mr. McGraw.
MCGRAW: Well, it was pretty interesting. You know, we went back, and I don`t -- I don`t think that there was actually a blood relation to George Washington, but what actually happened is we went far enough back to where Yost Hyde, who was -- I think was my eighth or ninth great-grandfather in - - in the early 1700s in the Shenandoah Valley in Virginia and -- and George Washington knew each other.
And in fact, George Washington, in one of his diaries, had written about my -- my ancestors and about how well they were doing, and how you know --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: I see.
MCGRAW: So it was -- it was a pretty interesting story.
BEHAR: That is interesting. So you`re not related, exactly, but you were connected in some way. I see. It`s a little different.
MCGRAW: Yes, exactly. Yes.
BEHAR: A little different.
And the other thing -- the other thing is, Tim, someone told me that you lost a whole bunch of weight. Now, I`ve seen you on "The View," you never looked heavier than -- I don`t remember you being heavy. How much weight did you lose?
MCGRAW: Well, I guess over the last couple of years, it`s close to 40 pounds.
BEHAR: Wow.
MCGRAW: I -- I quit drinking about three years ago, and I think that that had a lot to do with it. That`s a lot -- a lot of unused calories that went away right away. But you know, I just -- you start to get a little older and you -- and you know you want to stay healthy. And I`ve got three daughters that I want to see grow up. And I -- I just want to stay as healthy as I can.
BEHAR: So you don`t drink anymore, that`s -- that`s quite an accomplishment. I mean that`s hard to stop.
MCGRAW: I don`t.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s hard. Good for you. Good for you.
You also have been -- you have a successful -- besides your music career, you have a movie career. You were in the movie with Sandra Bullock, "The Blind Side". You had also -- right? What other movie have you been?
MCGRAW: Well, you know, we just had a movie with Gwyneth Paltrow called "Country Strong" that came out and I`ve done a few other films. It`s all because of music that`s given me these opportunities. I don`t think that I would have been picked up off the street to go do a movie had it not been for the music business.
So I feel very fortunate, and it`s a lot of fun. It`s an extension of what you do as an artist, that I had those opportunities to go in and sort of develop a character. And I`m a big fan of movies. So to have that chance and that opportunity and to be able to work with some of those great people has been fun for me.
BEHAR: That could be a lot of fun. Ok. Hold on there for a minute. We`ll be right back with more from Tim McGraw.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Tim McGraw. And joining us is Jeff Smith, CEO of Outback Steakhouse. Tim has partnered with them to support our troops. Welcome, Jeff.
Now, Outback is committing $1 million to the "Thanks for Giving" program. Tell me about that. Who`s going to get the money for that, because that sounds very interesting?
JEFF SMITH, CEO, OUTBACK STEAKHOUSE: Yes. Yes, thank you. Operation Home Front will be receiving all of the funds. And they`re a non-profit organization that helps our U.S. Military troops, veterans, and their families with both essential and emergency needs, such as it could be all the way from paying their bills on a monthly basis, providing a furnished apartment. Such as what we were able to witness this morning, that a couple, the Lodukes (ph) were able to get a furnished apartment this morning, as well as books and school supplies for children.
BEHAR: That`s great. And the customers can donate money also, I understand, yes?
SMITH: Yes. We created a special menu called the Red, White and Blooming menu. And it will run until April 5th. And any customer that orders an item off of that menu, then part of those proceeds will go towards the $1 million commitment we have made for Operation Home Front.
BEHAR: Now, Tim, this is personal, this whole campaign for you, because your sister is a veteran, right? Tell me about your sister.
MCGRAW: Yes, my sister -- my sister, Tracy, she was a veteran of the First Gulf war. And I have -- she`s a great girl, and really, really spent a lot of time and effort, you know, to put her service in. And I have a lot of friends, Danny Knight, who`s a great friend of mine, Army Ranger. He`s been in the military for 20, 25 years. Just, you know, I`ve got a lot of connections with the military and a lot of great friends who have been in the military. So it really hits home for me, for sure.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I mean you, as a person who has a political head; I mean do you think that we do enough for troops when they come home in this country? I often read that they`re neglected, they can`t get the right medical help, and it`s not pretty what happens. I mean what is your perception of that?
MCGRAW: Well, my perception is we can never do enough for the troops when they come home and their families. And it`s not just about the troops, which is a huge priority, is the troops and what they go through when they`re overseas, but when they come home, especially when they`re wounded or when they suffer from posttraumatic stress disorder, the families are the ones that suffer, as much or more in a lot of cases, than the troops do.
So we should take care of our troops and take care of their families. And at least make sure -- and that`s what Operation Home Front and Outback have been so fantastic about, is at least giving these families some breathing room and some space to get their life together.
BEHAR: Right. It`s a very good thing you`re doing, and I think it would be nice if other companies jumped in and maybe did a little more than they do. So that`s very good, Jeff and we thank you for that.
SMITH: Thank you.
BEHAR: And thank you, Tim, very much for coming on. I hope to see you soon with your beautiful wife, Faith. Bring her over here.
MCGRAW: Thank you, Joy. I will.
BEHAR: Ok.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In an interview with "Newsweek" magazine about his work in Sudan, George Clooney claims he`ll never run for political office. He says, quote, "I didn`t live my life in the right way for politics. You know, I (EXPLETIVE DELETED) too many chicks and did too many drugs, and that`s the truth." Slept with too many chicks, oh, please, three words, JFK.
With me now to discuss this and other stories in the news are: Ben Lyons, the E! Network correspondent and contributor to reserveyournight.com; Judge Karen Mills-Francis, host of "Judge Karen`s Court"; comedian and radio host, Johnny -- Goumba Johnny. I almost said Johnny Goumba again.
GOUMBA JOHNNY, COMEDIAN: It`s OK.
BEHAR: It`s Goumba Johnny.
OK. You know, Bush admitted -- let me go back a couple of presidents. Bush admitted that he knocked down a few over the years. And Obama admitted to smoking pot.
KAREN MILLS-FRANCIS, JUDGE KAREN`S COURT: Right.
BEHAR: And I think -- didn`t he say he tried coke once in one of his books?
MILLS-FRANCIS: I think so. And Johnny Carter said he sinned in his heart, remember?
BEHAR: He lusted in his heart.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Right.
BEHAR: Well, that was nothing.
(CROSSTALK)
BEN LYONS, E! NETWORK CORRESPONDENT: And Reagan was an actor in Hollywood, so I`m sure he had a few nights out on the town. I think there`s a balance between showing that you`re somewhat of a normal person and you can go out and live your life, but also, you can`t have too much in that way. So, it`s a line that politicians have to walk.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Why don`t you give examples of presidents? I mean, he`s not going to run for president. I mean, but there are a lot of people, who are governors of -- this beautiful state of New York, who, you know, they mix politics and celebrity. The governor of Illinois, politics and celebrity.
BEHAR: He`s not really a hypocrite. If he, you know, because Mark Sanford was having an affair with his soul mate and it sort of hurt his career. John Edwards, we all know what happened to him.
I think that it`s the hypocrisy and lying that people don`t like. If you come out with it --
JOHNNY: I don`t think it would affect him at all if he had political aspirations. I think what would affect him is a film he made, "When Who Stare at Goats."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, yes?
JOHNNY: And a couple of episodes of "Facts of Life."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That will kill him.
JOHNNY: I think his first act as a politician would be to buy back all those episodes and have them destroyed.
BEHAR: Reagan did those "Bonzo" movies, right?
LYONS: I honestly think George can do more in the private sector, though. This has someone who`s been very passionate obviously about various issues over the years, and if he`s held down by various, you know, political ties or funding for campaign finances, whatever, I think he can get more done as a private citizen. People will take him more seriously in that way, if that makes any sense.
MILLS-FRANCIS: He`s making awareness to areas that people hadn`t thought about. That`s a good way to use your celebrity.
JOHNNY: He`s a great humanitarian, and, you know, he does have some political potential. I don`t know if you know this, he has a lot in common with one of our greatest presidents ever.
BEHAR: Really?
JOHNNY: Yes, Abraham Lincoln. George Clooney was born in Kentucky. Abraham Lincoln was born in Kentucky, and they both died in tears.
LYONS: Come on. I thought you`re going somewhere.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNNY: Somebody at home got that joke.
BEHAR: Your mother --
JOHNNY: Now you`re doing mother jokes.
BEHAR: OK. Here`s an interesting Oscar-related story. This actress, Melissa Leo, she was in "Frozen River" and she`s nominated for "The Fighter." You know that because you`re in that whole business there, right?
LYONS: Interviewed Melissa many times.
BEHAR: Yes. She`s also won the Golden Globe for "The Fighter" and the SAG award and the Critics Choice Award. So, she wants to win an Oscar. So, she puts an ad in the Hollywood trade magazine about -- to promote herself. And they all turn on her for that because they don`t like the self-promotion.
LYONS: This is something that`s happening in Hollywood. It has been for years. The campaigns, speaking of transitioning from politics to Hollywood now, it`s like running for office. You go out and you have events and there`s private parties where you meet people and hobnob.
BEHAR: Well, what`s wrong with voting for yourself?
LYONS: She had some fun with it. It`s been going on for a long time.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I don`t know why it`s a big deal with her.
BEHAR: Because usually the studio pays for it, not the star herself.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Maybe it was the ad itself, the one she put in "Variety" and the fake fur and it said "consider." It`s like begging.
BEHAR: I hate the begging.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes, I don`t mind the begging. And you know, she says she want to ensure that she`s a shoo-in, but just the fact that you got nominated out of the thousands and thousands and thousands of films that came out last year, shouldn`t that be enough for some people?
BEHAR: Except that, you know, you need to promote yourself in the business I understand.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes.
BEHAR: And she can`t get on any of the late-night shows, she claims, because of ageism, she`s over 50. And she can`t get the magazine covers, because she`s older.
JOHNNY: Well, I think it worked, because I didn`t know who she was until this article came out.
BEHAR: See? OK. You made her case. Johnny, you made her case.
JOHNNY: Money well spent.
BEHAR: OK. Now, here`s a sad story. Charlie Manson, his lawyer wants him to get out of jail, because he says that he really didn`t kill anybody, he just ordered the killings, and told them to do something witchy. OK, what do you think of that? Should Charles Manson be put out on the streets?
LYONS: First of all, the lawyer is faxing Obama. Is this 1994 you`re getting this story from? How did he get Obama`s fax number, by the way?
JOHNNY: Could you picture Obama getting that fax and looking at it?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Wow. It`s 2:00 in the morning, where`s this coming from? It`s "L.A. Times."
(LAUGHTER)
JOHNS: Yes, he must have thought George Bush was like prank faxing him.
BEHAR: Well, anybody could probably get the fax number. But the real discussion is, should Charles Manson be put out on parole?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Oh, come on. I mean, are we really having this discussion? He`s already exhausted all of his appeals.
BEHAR: Yes.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I mean, nobody takes the man seriously. I just think that it`s a lawyer`s ploy to get some recognition. Because they know he`s doing it for free, pro bono.
BEHAR: OK. So the lawyer is trying to promote himself, like Melissa Leo? Maybe he should take an ad out in "The Hollywood Reporter."
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNNY: When he dies and goes to hell, he should make sure he has St. Peter`s fax number because --
BEHAR: Who, Manson?
JOHNNY: Yes, he`s getting --
BEHAR: He`s going to hell. He`s going to hell.
But he`s telling his followers to do something witchy. Doesn`t this lawyer kind of underestimate the evil of this guy? That guy, I mean, he killed seven -- he had seven people killed. And one of the things they did was, this was so awful, Sharon Tate was pregnant, and they cut her open and took the baby. I mean, it`s disgusting, what he did.
MILLS-FRANCIS: As long as they`re making Folgers Coffee, they can forget about it. It`s not going to happen.
BEHAR: And why does he have a cell phone in jail also? I understand he has a cell phone.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I didn`t know he had a cell phone in jail.
BEHAR: He has some kind of communication.
LYONS: Why didn`t he call Obama instead of faxing him if he had a phone?
BEHAR: Because Obama wouldn`t take Charles Manson`s call, but he would take the lawyer`s call.
JOHNNY: He would see, and it says C. Manson.
(LAUGHTER)
MILLS-FRANCIS: Who`s that caller?
JOHNNY: C. Manson, Alcatraz.
BEHAR: OK. Now, there`s a new season of "Dancing with the Stars" coming up, and already they`re starting to nominate who they want to put on there. So, let`s see what you think. By the way, I made the cut. They want -- people are nominating me, which forget about it.
(CROSSTALK)
JOHNNY: Not going to happen?
LYONS: Can you dance? Can you dance?
BEHAR: I can do the two-step. Whatever.
MILLS-FRANCIS: And they can teach you to dance and you already sparkle.
BEHAR: No, but here`s the thing, honey, I can`t -- I don`t have the breath control.
MILLS-FRANCIS: What do you mean?
BEHAR: I can`t -- I`d be out of breath in two minutes.
MILLS-FRANCIS: They could build up your endurance.
BEHAR: No, I can`t do that.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Should we scratch you off the list?
BEHAR: Scratch me off the list.
LYONS: You`re an early favorite already in Vegas.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about the rest of these people.
MILLS-FRANCIS: OK.
BEHAR: Mel Gibson?
JOHNNY: I like Mel Gibson.
BEHAR: How do you think he`d do?
JOHNNY: I think -- I`d watch it if Mel Gibson was on it if his dancing partner was Jewish.
BEHAR: OK. So maybe he and who would be a good partner for him?
JOHNNY: Anyone who`s Jewish. I would just love to see that.
BEHAR: All right. And how about Camille Grammer? I`d like to see her dance with Kelsey.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Kelsey Grammer`s ex-wife?
BEHAR: You know, it would be so beautiful to see them together. What do you think?
MILLS-FRANCIS: I got to see that.
LYONS: I think she would probably dance with herself. I`m going to go on the record, I think she`s going to do that I think. I think that out of all the ones on the list, because you`re too afraid to do it. I think the rest of it will --
BEHAR: I`m too busy, to think of going to Los Angeles. Anyway, where are my --
(CROSSTALK)
LYONS: No. But I think you will see Camille Grammer on the show.
BEHAR: Yes. What about Brett Favre?
LYONS: Oh, God.
JOHNNY: He`d be good. He tiptoed around those sexting things, so --
(LAUGHTER)
LYONS: And former athletes have done very well on the show. A lot of guys have been on the show and done well, Emmitt Smith, (INAUDIBLE) a lot of guys have been on the show and done well.
BEHAR: I mean, what`s her name, Camille Grammer doesn`t need the money, they do pay. And she`s also got a gig on the Beverly Hills.
(CROSSTALK)
LYONS: She needs to keep the narcissism going.
BEHAR: I mean, Mel Gibson, it might help him to overhaul his image a little bit.
LYONS: I don`t want to see him in those interviews, to hear him, I don`t want anyone clapping for Mel Gibson. Go away.
BEHAR: Yes. OK, all right, we`ll have more with our panel when we come back. Hang on there.
A.J. HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" HOST: Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT," did L dodge jail again? Explosive developments today as Lindsay Lohan goes back to court for a brand new showdown. At 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Back with my panel.
OK, before the break, we were talking about "Dancing with the Stars," but I forgot to tell you that they`re also actively pursuing Christine O`Donnell, the young woman who was running for the Senate in Delaware. What do you think about that?
JOHNNY: I`d love to se somebody do the tango to "God Bless America."
(LAUGHTER)
LYONS: I really -- I really cringe when I see political people on that show. I think it completely discredits them. It`s a fun show.
BEHAR: Why?
LYONS: Because -- I don`t need my leaders, my elected officials, the people who are in charge of how my tax money is spent focusing, spending their hours each day training to do the cha-cha.
BEHAR: But she`s not running now.
MILLS-FRANCIS: She lost. The people spoke already.
LYONS: The people spoke already. She lost. I don`t want her. I don`t need her do the two-step.
MILLS-FRANCIS: What`s her claim to fame? Who is she?
JOHNNY: Well, you need equal representation to everybody, you need somebody there from the Tea Party, from the Right to Life, Democrats, Republicans, throw in a couple of dictators.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Maybe Mubarak has a few dance steps left in him.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What`s his name, Gadhafi out there, take that (INAUDIBLE) off your head and let`s see you rock and roll.
But I think that they had Bristol Palin, and she got a lot of votes, because of the conservative audience that watches and the Tea Party. Maybe that`s what they`re looking for.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But she`s Sarah Palin daughter. But -- I mean, this Christine, who is she?
BEHAR: She ran for the Senate in Delaware. That`s who she is. The girl is a --
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS-FRANCIS: Where`s Delaware?
(LAUGHTER)
LYONS: "Dancing with the Stars," right? It`s called "Dancing with the Stars," right, not dancing with the people who ran for office in Delaware and lost.
BEHAR: But, you know, I said before, Camille Grammer doesn`t need the money. Maybe this girl does need the money. After all --
MILLS-FRANCIS: Maybe she had all those debts she had from college, I remember her well.
BEHAR: Exactly. OK. Now, here`s a little bit more of more serious story. Charlie Sheen`s father, the great actor Martin Sheen, is now weighing in. This is what he told Sky News. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARTIN SHEEN, CHARLIE SHEEN`S FATHER: This is an extraordinary man, you know, and he`s -- if he had cancer, how would we treat him, you know? The disease of addiction is a form of cancer. And you have to have an equal measure of concern and love and lift them up. And so, that`s what we do for him.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: See, I don`t think addiction is the same as cancer because, I mean, a lot of people get addicted -- I don`t know, it`s sort of unbeknownst to them they become addicted. But cancer, really, has no choice. I don`t know that you can put the two together.
MILLS-FRANCIS: There have been studies that show that alcoholism is an inherited disease, that there are certain genetic factors. So, it could be something that he can`t help. I mean, he`s been a poster boy for bad behavior for a long, long time.
BEHAR: I know.
MILLS-FRANCIS: And it seems that she`s just snowballed into something that, you know, we don`t even imagine. And what`s sad about it is that his working life mirrors his real life. So when he goes into work every day, he`s, you know, drinking out of a beer bottle. Is that reminding you that you have an alcohol problem?
BEHAR: I know.
MILLS-FRANCIS: He`s at the bar pouring himself gin on that show all the time.
BEHAR: I think you say that alcoholism can be genetic. Now, if your father drank and your grandfather drank, and they were both alcoholics, why would you pick up that first drink? You know that`s a problem.
MILLS-FRANCIS: You can`t help yourself if it`s genetic.
BEHAR: You can`t help yourself from picking up the drink?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Well, you can`t help yourself for whatever it is that`s making you go to that particular addiction. Or might just be what`s genetic is the addictive personality.
BEHAR: I see. OK.
LYONS: It`s unfortunate now when you see a lot of the stars stumble that their parents now have to be in the public eye defending them and talking about things that are maybe outside of their wheelhouse. Martin Sheen, a wonderful actor, now for an entire generation of young people, oh, he`s Charlie Sheen`s dad and it`s a shame to see him do that publicly in order to connect to his son.
MILLS-FRANCIS: How old is he, anyway?
BEHAR: Isn`t he 50 now, Charlie sheen? Forty-five?
JOHNNY: It`s hard to feel sorry for, he`s worth $385 million.
BEHAR: Yes.
JOHNNY: I mean, he`s been blessed with tremendous opportunity and he`s spiraling out of control. And his father, that`s nothing more than a -- his father is at his wit`s end. That was a cry for help.
BEHAR: Probably, yes.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes, but money doesn`t buy you happiness. I mean, so what? He makes all that money. He`s obviously miserable.
BEHAR: Oh, but if money doesn`t buy you happiness, oh, contraire. Money buys plenty of happiness, plenty.
This lie that they perpetrated --
MILLS-FRANCIS: No, that`s not true.
BEHAR: -- you can be happy without money is a bunch of baloney.
MILLS-FRANCIS: It can buy happiness but it can also create misery. Look at all those lotto winners. Their lives just go down the train when they win millions and millions of dollars.
BEHAR: I think we only read about the few that goes down the drain. The rest are in Puerto Vallarta right now.
(CROSSTALK)
MILLS-FRANCIS: Can we say that money doesn`t necessarily buy happiness.
BEHAR: OK, not necessarily.
All right. This other story is kind of funny, too. You know Harry Reid who almost lost the election in Nevada? OK. Now, he wants to get rid of legal prostitution. Nevada is the only state that has legal prostitution.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Right.
BEHAR: It`s one of the states that has legal gambling.
MILLS-FRANCIS: Right.
BEHAR: He wants to get rid of legal prostitution.
MILLS-FRANCIS: But he`s OK with illegal prostitution.
(CROSSTALK)
LYONS: To clean up Nevada`s pristine image.
JOHNNY: Taking prostitution out of Nevada is like taking the Big Macs out of McDonald`s. It`s going to make people upset.
BEHAR: They`re going to be upset. And they`re going to lose money.
JOHNNY: You won`t be able to call it Sin City.
MILLS-FRANCIS: There were third generation legal prostitutes that were protesting. Can you imagine you say, I`m a third generation -- my mama was a prostitute and her mother before her was a --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s genetic, Judge Mills. I`m a ho, my mother was a ho, we`re all hoes and we are proud of it!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And we pay taxes. We pay taxes.
What`s he going to do? The state is going downhill and he wants to take away a source of revenue. No wonder they almost threw him out.
JOHNNY: But why now though? Why are they doing -- why do they want to clean up, you know, Nevada? Why now?
BEHAR: I don`t know. What do you think? What do you think?
LYONS: I think when it comes to the legalization of marijuana or you`re talking about alcohol laws, anytime there`s regulation, anytime the government can get involved, I think it`s a better solution than simply letting these third generation prostitutes run around the Sin City on their own.
MILLS-FRANCIS: I thought what happens there stays there, what are we talking about?
BEHAR: I think this could hurt his re-election chances. What do you think?
LYONS: Absolutely, brings so much business to the city.
MILLS-FRANCIS: There are only 1,000 prostitutes there, another 500 people in ancillary jobs like cooks and maids.
BEHAR: Do you know that for a fact, there are 1,000 prostitutes there?
MILLS-FRANCIS: Yes, that`s what I read. There are 1,000 legal prostitutes.
BEHAR: And how many illegal ones will there be if they get rid of --
MILLS-FRANCIS: I hear there`s more than 1,000 illegal ones? How about it`s illegal in Vegas itself, prostitution. Now, we know prostitution is going on in Vegas. That`s what he should have been arguing about. What about all these illegal prostitutes in Las Vegas? He`s going to pull Nevada population, too.
(CROSSTALK)
LYONS: You know a lot about prostitution.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Population two, and that is a mother and a daughter, those two women are hookers.
JOHNNY: And think about all the bachelor parties he`s going to ruin.
BEHAR: Exactly.
LYONS: My friends and I go to Vegas, we`re calling judge.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you guys very much.
And we`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Lindsay Lohan was in court against today. For those keeping score at home, this was her eighth court appearance in the last nine months. So, is Lindsay headed to the slammer?
Here with me with the latest is HLN`s Dr. Drew, whose new nightly show "DR. DREW" premieres this spring.
Hello, Drew. How are you?
DR. DREW PINSKY, SHOW PREMIERES NIGHTLY THIS SPRING ON HLN: Hey, Joy. Thanks.
BEHAR: Good to see you. OK.
Is she going to jail? Please tell me she is, so I don`t have to talk about her anymore.
PINSKY: I think she`s going to jail but I don`t think this is the last you`ve heard of Lindsay. You know, the fact is while she`s getting better and she`s been sort of participating in recovery, she`s not been what you call a model patient in terms of embracing the process. The judge is kind of picking up on that and he`s trying to force those points, which is great.
The problem is he`s also going to send her to jail which think all of us who are sort of law abiding citizens feel somewhat gratified by that. But it`s not exactly what she needs.
BEHAR: No? What does she need?
PINSKY: She needs somebody to say, look, I`m going to mandate another six months of intensive residential treatment or something such as that --
BEHAR: So why doesn`t he do that?
PINSKY: What`s that?
BEHAR: Why doesn`t he just do that? Can he demand that?
PINSKY: I don`t understand that. Yes, I don`t understand why the judges don`t do that more. I guess it`s probably because they just don`t do that for other felons, so why should he do that for her? He`s trying to adjudicate, you know, evenly across all the cases.
But the reality is, you know, she has an illness. I mean, you were just a few minutes ago talking about what Martin Sheen were saying about Charlie Sheen.
BEHAR: Yes.
PINSKY: He`s absolutely right, that advanced addiction has a worse prognosis than the vast majority of cancers. It has a treatment. The treatment works.
If I told her she had cancer, we`d be airlifting her to the City of Hope for cancer treatment.
BEHAR: Right.
PINSKY: But just because it`s addiction, and people see that as a weakness, somehow it`s her problem. We all become sort of -- we all express righteous indignation and want to act out our fury on her and send her to jail.
Well, the stuff she`s doing is very, very typical -- particularly my female patients in early recovery. They do lots of strange things. They`re very fragile. And by treating her aggressively, I`m not sure you`re helping her.
BEHAR: I see. Well, you know, the judge told her to get therapy and find a 12-step program. What about that? That`s good.
PINSKY: Of course, that`s good. In fact, he was very sort of enlightened in what he said. He said, look, you`re calling somebody a sponsor who have a relationship with as a family member. That is not a sponsor. Your sponsor is somebody who has at least five, preferably 10 years of sobriety, who`s sponsoring other people whom you don`t know about, whom you can sit down and be honest with, and talk about your shame and fear and emptiness, and that person can bust your chops a little bit and get back, you know, and get you to participate actively.
That`s the piece she doesn`t have yet. And going to jail is not going to get her there, unfortunately.
BEHAR: No.
PINSKY: And I`m very, very fearful about Lindsay. I really think we`re going to see a very, very serious bottom in the not-too-distant future. I don`t think the jail is going to help prevent that.
BEHAR: Neither she nor Charlie Sheen sees himself, maybe one of them sees himself or herself as someone who`s ill. So, how can you say that should be treated like an illness? You see what I`m saying?
PINSKY: Well, it`s --
BEHAR: They don`t see it as an illness. So, what are you supposed to do with that?
PINSKY: Look, I`ve got lots of cancer patients that in denial, too, and want to get all kinds of ancillary care when there are effective treatments available to them. The same thing applies here. It`s just that denial is a feature of this illness. It`s a brain disease.
So, necessarily there`s distortion about their thinking and about their perception and how they see their condition. In fact -- I will tell you, this is the part, Joy, that makes thee me very frustrated.
BEHAR: Yes?
PINSKY: The general public sort of sees Charlie as sort of a cartoon character, very much like the character he plays on TV. But I will tell you, the manifestation, the symptoms he`s having suggest very serious psychopathology.
And when these guys get better and they look back at how they were, they`re very angry with people that didn`t step on their behalf and confront them about it. They`re angry now at people like me who tell them what they need to do. But later, they appreciate that and they`re angry at everybody else for not having done so.
BEHAR: OK. You know what? You`re going to be talking about all this kind of stuff on your new show?
PINSKY: Yes and many, many other things. Believe me, we`re not just going to limit to addiction, and like you, I want to limit my Lindsay talk.
BEHAR: OK. All right. Now, remember, you can catch Dr. Drew right here on HLN every night beginning this spring.
Good night, Dr. Drew. Good night, everybody.
HAMMER: I`m A.J. Hammer. This is the "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" newsbreak.
Here`s what`s coming up on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" at the top the hour:
Explosive developments today as Lindsay Lohan goes back to court. Is jail the only thing that will set her straight?
Billy Ray Cyrus`s startling new revelations today about him and Miley. Can he possibly repair the damage caused by saying Hannah Montana destroyed their family?
That`s your "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" newsbreak, TV`s most provocative entertainment news show at the top of the hour right here on HLN.
END
