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Joy Behar Page
Sheen Madness; Mackenzie Phillips Speaks Out
Aired March 03, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Charlie Sheen joins Twitter and gains over a million followers. Should people line up to be entertained by the actor`s recent bizarre behavior? Or should there be more concern about the dark side of this media spectacle?
Then Fox News takes contributors off the payroll after they discussed their presidential aspirations. So Joy wants to know why others like Sarah Palin are still bank-rolled by Fox.
Plus, actor, director and author Alan Arkin talks to Joy about his illustrious career.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Well, Charlie Sheen`s week-long media blitz has made him enormously popular. The unhinged actors broke a Guinness World Record yesterday when he joined Twitter and amassed more than one million followers in a day. That`s pretty good.
His interview with "20/20" got the show`s highest ratings in over two years. He`s being spoofed and joked about all over the country. But despite all the fun, there`s some serious issues here too.
New court documents allege that Sheen is a rather troubled man.
Here with me now to discuss this are: Deborah Norville, host of "Inside Edition"; Rikki Klieman -- how do you say your name?
RIKKI KLIEMAN: Klieman.
BEHAR: Klieman -- criminal defense attorney and former prosecutor; and Judy Kuriansky also known as Dr. Judy, clinical psychologist. Welcome to the show.
Rikki every time I read it it`s spelled differently.
KLIEMAN: It`s all right. You know, I mean everyone said I just should have become Mrs. Bratton and I said but really I`m Klieman and that`s how they know me. And they said, but Klieman is just too hard. You can call me anything you like, joy.
BEHAR: I`ll call you Rikki.
Ok, so listen to this, Sheen has joined Twitter, and he`s posting pictures of himself with this porn star Bree Olson. And he`s got -- listen, you have to give it to him, Deborah -- he has over a million followers. Is this one of those let`s watch the train wreck type of situation?
DEBORAH NORVILLE, HOST, "INSIDE EDITION": I absolutely think there`s a train wreck thing going on. I think people are fascinated, the ratings today has gotten, "20/20" has gotten, and NBC is doing a "Dateline" special using all their material.
And the viewers on the one hand say, enough already, give it a rest, we don`t want to see more.
BEHAR: They`re lying.
NORVILLE: But they`re coming like lemmings in droves. They`re watching this.
Because let`s face it, it`s like the car crash on the freeway. The car is wrecked on the other side of the divider, you really don`t have to slow down, but you do. If they`re using the jaws of life to get the guy out, it`s even better.
BEHAR: Yes. Now, Judy, a lot of people are commending him for telling like it is. You know, I mean is there something wrong with him or not? You`re the shrink.
DR. JUDY KURIANSKY, CLINICAL PSYCHOLOGIST: I -- yes. I would have to say unfortunately, really, sadly, I`m -- without particularly diagnosing him, the behavior is like manic behavior. It`s like a psychosis. He has all these words that are spilling out that make no sense. He has tremendous, tremendous hostility by sticking pens in their eyes and saying he`s going to murder people and knock people off. And grab money that he wants to cut the hair off his ex-wife. All of this is hostility, the kind of over-activity.
BEHAR: Rage.
KURIANSKY: Rage.
BEHAR: A lot of rage and grandiosity.
KURIANSKY: Grandiosity is --
BEHAR: He`s winning. He`s a winner. He`s winning.
KURIANSKY: He`s a rock star.
NORVILLE: This is all Twitter and the followers, this winning thing has now become a commercial success. Companies have sprouted out. They are selling t-shirts with the winning logo on it. The late night guys are all using winning as sort of the gag line for their stories, and there was even this great Jimmy Fallon spoof, where he did a "winning" cologne and he`s blowing smoke in the camera, and he`s talking just like Charlie Sheen. It`s great material for people who do what you do.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s talk about the legal aspect now. The new court --
KLIEMAN: Not necessarily winning.
BEHAR: Not winning. Ok, let me read you the court documents which allege that Sheen has done some awful things.
When we question the temporary restraining order, his ex-wife Mueller made some serious allegations which I will read. One of the petitioner`s most shocking and fright thing requests, was that once he buys me a house I give him back $20,000 a month in cash from the child support he pays me so he could have untraceable cash to knock off a few people, quote-unquote, because the, quote, "people I hate violently are going to get severely punished," unquote.
Something that Dr. Judy just alluded to. But give me the legal aspect of making a statement like that.
KLIEMAN: Well, the legal aspects are all here about the custody case Joy. What happens is the more that Brooke can say that this is a violent man; that this is a man she calls insane, she uses that word; that this is someone who is predisposed to act out on his rage. So since she believes he`s threatened her, and has at least threatened other people through her, then the follow-up to that, of course, is my children are in danger because they could also be hurt.
Now, all of this, he may deny. I mean, she has only proof that we know of a particular series of text messages.
BEHAR: Yes.
KLIEMAN: Which are not a threat, but they certainly are not good.
BEHAR: I`m going to read that one now.
Ok, Mueller also says that Sheen sent her this anti-Semitic text about his manager. Quote, "I must execute Mark B. like the stooped Jew pig that he is."
KLIEMAN: I assume that`s stupid.
BEHAR: Stupid not stooped.
KLIEMAN: Yes, but it`s how it`s spelled.
BEHAR: Is that what that was.
NORVILLE: It`s not a misprint for you.
BEHAR: Stupid -- s-t-o-o-p-e-d. So he`s stupid, is that it?
KURIANSKY: It`s a text.
BEHAR: All right. Now, this would not be the first anti-Semitic thing that he said. He also said that -- what was the other thing? Do you remember?
KLIEMAN: He talked about his attorney.
BEHAR: Chaim Levine and Chuck Lorre.
NORVILLE: But he also talked about his own divorce attorney who came out himself and said he didn`t think Charlie Sheen had said that because first of all he`s represented him for 13 years and he`s not known to be a man to do that. But beyond that, Brooke Mueller is Jewish. And if he`s so anti-Semitic, then it follows by extension that his twin boys are Jewish. So he pretty much threw a lot of cold water on that one.
BEHAR: Wow, what do you make of that, Judy?
KURIANSKY: Oh, this is just part of spewing hatred and just getting out hostility to anybody. I think it could be toward any people. And interestingly --
BEHAR: He says that she wrote it from his phone.
KURIANSKY: Well --
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANKSY: You cannot take anything seriously. This is a manic, psychotic behavior. And so the words do not make any sense. When you say stooped, for example, that`s part of the verbal kind of (INAUDIBLE) and confusions that manic people say.
NORVILLE: It goes along with tiger`s blood.
KURIANSKY: And you add the drug use on top of that, and none of it makes any sense. You can`t even take it seriously. But it is dangerous because in psychology, for example, you have to take seriously that he`s threatening people`s lives, he`s threatening her life.
BEHAR: He also said -- she claims that he said I will cut your head off, put it in a box and send it to your mom.
KLIEMAN: Which was the final threat that made her decide to get the declaration.
NORVILLE: Let me probe this out. Let`s talk about the chronology of all of this, Brooke Mueller went with Charlie Sheen and the goddesses to the Bahamas last week. On the 23rd of February, on Wednesday, that`s when the I`m going to stick a pen knife in your eye and I`m going to punch you in the arm. That`s when she left the Bahamas and came back.
On Saturday, he got the kids for the first time in months and that was in violation of the custody agreement because he gets the kids the first, third and fifth weekends. This was the fourth weekend.
Then on Sunday she says there was the whole thing about, I`m going to cut your head off and put it in a box and send it to your mother. No, you can`t have the kids. It`s not until Tuesday that she gets the emergency order from the judge to have the children removed.
What happened between Sunday and all these threatening things and Tuesday? The only thing that happened was Charlie Sheen was on TV.
KLIEMAN: I don`t know about that, though. She gets the -- the kids are gone on Saturday, she gets the threat on Sunday. I assume she sees her lawyers on Monday, that`s a very lengthy declaration. I mean it`s thick, it`s deep. So the lawyers have to put the declaration together. So I don`t think it`s out of the question --
NORVILLE: You don`t think that`s too long a time frame for imminent danger?
KLIEMAN: I think that she -- going to the lawyers on Monday, then it comes to Tuesday. But the fact of the goddesses being on TV on Monday, but she was with them in the Bahamas, as you just said. So this is not new for her.
KURIANSKY: We`re all using the word goddesses.
(CROSSTALK)
KURIANSKY: It upsets me, because I -- goddesses come from ancient Indian tradition where you`re supposed to be a responsible ethical kind of woman.
BEHAR: I would if it came from my bedroom.
KURIANSKY: Well, we all should be treated as goddesses.
BEHAR: You bet you.
KURIANSKY: But calling porn stars and prostitutes goddesses is going way too far, and I think we need to really clarify and stop using that word, even if he uses it. Because it should be used with reverence, not that way.
BEHAR: But you have to admit that this whole -- all this unhinged behavior is making him popular. Is he getting off on it, do you think? I think he likes it.
KLIEMAN: This is grandiosity.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: He has to be downloading all of it, saving it all. He`s reveling, I suspect, in every conversation like this that goes on.
KURIANSKY: It`s a picture of narcissism. There he is.
BEHAR: So let me get the -- the report is, what`s going to happen next?
NORVILLE: What we thought was going to happen today, was that Charlie Sheen`s attorneys would be responding to the legal documents that you`ve been referring to. That didn`t happen, I suspect it will be happening tomorrow.
BEHAR: Anything to add legally to that?
KLIEMAN: Well, I think that ultimately, ultimately, she`s going to get the kids, but he will get supervised visitation. And if he behaves himself, he may at some point in that rehabilitative process, be able to have shared custody.
BEHAR: And mentally and emotionally?
KURIANSKY: He will never change because what is the motivation to change unless he hurts somebody then he`ll be thrown into a hospital or jail.
BEHAR: Ok. Meanwhile, he`s making a lot of money on Twitter, I hear he gets paid for that.
KLIEMAN: Well, I think he`s going to try.
BEHAR: How do you get that deal?
(CROSS TALK)
KURIANSKY: A million. Right.
BEHAR: I`m calling my manager.
NORVILLE: And when you find out, let us all know.
BEHAR: I`m calling my agent today.
Ok, thanks, everybody very much.
We`ll be back after a short break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Mackenzie Phillips talks about the aftermath from her brutally honest memoir, "High on Arrival".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: In Mackenzie Phillips` memoir "High on Arrival", which now is out in paperbacks, she tells the brutally candid story of her life-long battle with drug addiction as well as revelations of an incestuous relationship with her father.
Welcome to the program, Mackenzie Phillips. How are you?
MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, AUTHOR, "HIGH ON ARRIVAL": Thank you. I`m good.
BEHAR: It was good to see you again. Last time we were far away. Now you`re right here with me.
(CROSS TALK)
M. PHILLIPS: That`s right. It`s nice.
BEHAR: In -- in this new paperback addiction --
(CROSS TALK)
M. PHILLIPS: Addiction?
BEHAR: -- edition, you say that you --
M. PHILLIPS: That wasn`t good. New paperback addiction?
BEHAR: I`m addicted to paperback.
M. PHILLIPS: There you go.
BEHAR: That`s what it is. You say you were surprised by all the media attention. Why were you so surprised?
M. PHILLIPS: Well, I mean -- look, I think because I lived this life my whole life --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
M. PHILLIPS: -- and I`m almost 52 years old, that it becomes your reality, it becomes what you -- you know, what you know, what you live, what you remember.
BEHAR: Yes.
M. PHILLIPS: And then, sure, I knew that it was going to be a little explosive, but I certainly didn`t expect people to get all whack crazy on me.
BEHAR: They got whacked?
M. PHILLIPS: They got whack crazy.
And -- and yesterday I was doing a bunch of interviews about the added chapter, and everyone kept focusing on the family. But it -- the added chapter also talks so much about the community of incest survivors and it`s not just that one thing.
BEHAR: Right. Is that why you went public with it, because of that?
M. PHILLIPS: At first it wasn`t why I went public with it. I thought, I didn`t know the -- you know, I learned this from Dr. Drew, the incidents of incest in this country. You know, I knew that I couldn`t be the only one, I mean, obviously.
But I certainly didn`t -- didn`t know that I was going to become a voice for a community that I didn`t even really know I belonged to.
BEHAR: It`s shocking, the numbers.
M. PHILLIPS: The numbers are overwhelming.
BEHAR: Some people don`t think it was a good idea for you to go public. I was watching the thing on "Access Hollywood." Let`s watch this --
(CROSS TALK)
M. PHILLIPS: Ok.
BEHAR: -- this piece of footage from Billy Bush.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILLY BUSH, TV HOST: I`ll be honest with you, I told my executive producer I don`t want to do this. I don`t like that I mean, I think it should be a private thing --
M. PHILLIPS: Well, you -- you weren`t -- you weren`t particularly kind --
BUSH: -- and I don`t book the show.
M. PHILLIPS: -- you weren`t particularly kind when the book first came out. I certainly didn`t expect you to be particularly kind today.
BUSH: I -- I think it`s a private thing, Mackenzie, I -- I think, I`d like to see this taking place in a therapist`s couch. I mean, I -- I don`t --
M. PHILLIPS: It does take place there as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well first of all, let me ask you a question. If he wasn`t particularly kind when you went, why did you go back on the show?
M. PHILLIPS: Well, I`m an eternal optimist. And I never spoke -- I`ve never met the man, I`ve never spoken to the man until yesterday. I just remember him being on a panel saying something --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Oh.
M. PHILLIPS: -- kind of creepy about the whole thing. And I thought, you know, I mean, -- I -- I can take on anybody.
BEHAR: Right.
M. PHILLIPS: I really can.
BEHAR: Right.
M. PHILLIPS: And so you know when I pointed to him and I said you are perpetuating this sickness by being so damned closed-minded. You know it`s just, I -- I am shocked that -- that he had the balls to -- I mean you -- fine, yes, I`m sure you`ve interviewed people you didn`t necessarily want to interview, but did you tell them?
BEHAR: No.
M. PHILLIPS: I was forced to do this?
BEHAR: No, no. It`s so unprofessional actually.
M. PHILLIPS: It`s so unprofessional, yes.
BEHAR: I mean, you`re not forced, nobody forces you to do anything. Take the day off, Billy.
M. PHILLIPS: Right.
BEHAR: And but do you really care? You don`t care what he thinks anyway, right?
M. PHILLIPS: I don`t give a flying you-know-what what Billy Bush thinks of me.
BEHAR: Ok, good. Now what -- let`s talk about the family. What was the fallout from the family?
M. PHILLIPS: Well, in "High on Arrival", the reason that I get to be here and talk about the book is because of the added chapter. I felt like it was very important for me to take the time to write another chapter, talking about what happened after the book came out.
And basically, you know my family, except for my ex-husband, my mother, my son, stopped talking to me.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Really.
M. PHILLIPS: And -- or course, Chynna talked to me to come on Oprah and then, you know, she -- our relationship basically went back to friendly indifference as soon as --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, she -- you know, she was on this show talking about it, let me show you what she said when she was here in December.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHYNNA PHILLIPS, SINGER, WILSON PHILLIPS: When it became public, I just did not really know how to deal head on with --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: How do you respond to it?
C. PHILLIPS: -- everybody knowing.
BEHAR: Yes.
C. PHILLIPS: And I just felt extremely exposed and vulnerable and it did kick in some anxiety, I have to admit.
BEHAR: It`s brutal to find -- did you believe her?
C. PHILLIPS: Well, yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, she said she believed you, do you -- now she doesn`t?
M. PHILLIPS: No, it`s not that, I think that -- no, of course, Chynna`s not the kind of person who would take back you know, that -- that truth. I -- I don`t know, I don`t know, see, because they won`t speak to me, so I don`t know.
BEHAR: Why don`t they speak to you?
M. PHILLIPS: I don`t know.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Are they --
M. PHILLIPS: And I think they`re trying to protect a brand, a legacy --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Oh you`re father.
M. PHILLIPS: --a financial -- we all share a financial interest in my father`s estate, and I think that -- that -- and they could very well be right that the estate has been devalued by -- by me telling the truth about my life.
BEHAR: I don`t see why people wouldn`t listen to "California Dreaming"? It`s still a good song whether -- I mean --
(CROSS TALK)
M. PHILLIPS: It`s -- he was a brilliant songwriter.
BEHAR: Yes.
M. PHILLIPS: He was a brilliant musician and he wasn`t a particularly good father. He was a very charming person. He was --
BEHAR: Oh he was a terrible father, Mackenzie --
M. PHILLIPS: He was a tortured awful father.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: The worst father, yes, a terrible father. Go there. Go there.
M. PHILLIPS: And he -- and he was there, he was that way with the rest of us.
BEHAR: Yes.
M. PHILLIPS: Not, not sexual incest, but he wasn`t a good dad, you know. He would say, oh, you can count on me.
BEHAR: Yes.
M. PHILLIPS: But maybe not.
BEHAR: But he was stoned anyway half the time, right?
M. PHILLIPS: Yes, yes, you`re right.
BEHAR: So that you know, between the drugs and the molestation, he`s not the father of the year, I`ll tell you that.
M. PHILLIPS: No, and he was the first one to admit it.
BEHAR: Ok.
M. PHILLIPS: He said, "I probably should never have been allowed to have children."
BEHAR: Smart. The smartest thing he ever said.
We`ll have more with Mackenzie Phillips after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Mackenzie Phillips.
Now, there`s this music group The Five Browns and they`ve come out with some revelations. What do you know of it?
PHILLIPS: What a story. These are five -- I think it`s four kids and the father, I don`t know exactly.
BEHAR: Three daughters.
PHILLIPS: Three daughters and two brothers. They`re Juilliard trained, brilliant musicians, the girls have been on the road with their dad for years and years and years. They find out that the dad is going to start managing young children`s music.
The girls go, oh, no way. They call the police and charge him with incest and sodomy. The man is going to spend the rest of his life in prison. These girls are so brave.
I mean we`re talking about, you know, like Billy Bush coming out and saying, this should be quiet. Well, if we keep it quiet, then how are we going to affect a change? These girls are so brave, their dad is going to jail.
BEHAR: Keeping it quiet protects the perpetrator.
PHILLIPS: Exactly.
BEHAR: That`s the thing. Secrets will protect people who commit crimes.
PHILLIPS: Well, I mean look at Michelle Phillips saying, she`s crazy, she`s a drug addict, she`s this, she`s that. Well then, this is classic. Let`s call the victim crazy and protect the perpetrator. It`s ridiculous.
BEHAR: I mean you were the victim in this, and yet they`re all over you.
PHILLIPS: Isn`t it weird? And I`m alive and he`s dead . It`s kind of weird.
BEHAR: I don`t know. I mean they`re just protecting something I guess.
Now, let`s look at this clip of David Arquette on Oprah today. This is interesting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DAVID ARQUETTE, ACTOR: I had my first drink of beer in --
OPRAH WINFREY, TV TALK SHOW HOST: How old were you?
ARQUETTE: I must have been 4 years old. I was down in the basement with my Dad and beer was there and I just grabbed it and then drink it. I remember that, it`s one of my earliest memories.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He had his first drink at four. He stole some pot when he was eight from his father. So, I mean, it started young with this kid. Did the drug thing start young with you?
PHILLIPS: Yes. Not that young. My dad taught me how to roll joints for him. I was like the joint roller for the adults when I was 10. I think the first time I drank I was maybe 11. And then the first time I stole some coke from my dad I was 12.
But the thing is, obviously he grew up in sort of a counter culture kind of family, similar to mine, and when you grow up in that kind of culture, it becomes ingrained in you. You know, it seems as normal as getting a carton of milk out of a fridge to see someone spark up a joint or snort some coke. You go, oh, this is what you do. When you`re a kid, you go, oh, this is what you do.
BEHAR: It seems normal.
PHILLIPS: It does seem normal. And then it takes so many years to get to the other side where you look back and you go holy crap, that was not normal at all. I mean I look at my own son who`s now 24. Throughout his life I`d look at him at 10 and think, oh man I was being taught how to roll joints, you know.
And it makes you really realize the power you have as a parent, and how you have to use that power for good and come from a place of love.
BEHAR: Right.
PHILLIPS: And know that your words and your actions have meaning.
BEHAR: And take care of your children.
PHILLIPS: Take care of your children.
BEHAR: You know, you were fired from "One Day at a Time" for bad behavior, I guess.
PHILLIPS: Twice.
BEHAR: Twice.
PHILLIPS: And although -- and it`s a different time. We`re talking 1983 or something, 1979. People -- people didn`t go to rehab. I was sort of one of the pioneers of that thing.
They just said, go get well and I`d go have my teeth cleaned, get my hair done and buy a new outfit. Three weeks later I`d come back and go hey. And they`d go hey. And then I`d screw up again.
BEHAR: You know what? You seem so well adjusted now.
PHILLIPS: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you`ve come through, I think, the darkest parts of your life.
PHILLIPS: I hope you`re right. It is --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And congratulations to you.
PHILLIPS: Thank you, Joy. I have a great deal of respect for you. Thank you so much for having me on
BEHAR: All right. I like having you on the show.
PHILLIPS: I like it. Thanks.
BEHAR: The updated paperback version of "High on Arrival" is out now. And we`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: FOX News has suspended paid contributors Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. Why? Because they`re considering presidential runs in 2012.
Santorum is ticked off, he`s ticked off and he wants to know why they haven`t suspended Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, too.
I can`t believe I agree with an ultra-right conservative Republican, somebody get me a drink.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: With me to discuss this and other stories on the news are: comedian Chuck Nice; Shushannah Walshe, political reporter for "The Daily Beast"; and comedian Michael Loftus.
Welcome you guys.
Shushannah, should they suspend Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee, do you think?
SHUSHANNAH WALSHE, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE DAILY BEAST: Well, it`s interesting that FOX believes that they`re not getting closer to running for president. And they believe that Newt and Santorum are. So, maybe they know something that we don`t, that they aren`t going to run for president, that Sarah Palin and Mike Huckabee are going to run.
But it`s clear they`re mulling their decision. They`re trying to decide whether they`re going to do it or not do it.
BEHAR: Yes, Mike Huckabee.
WALSHE: Yes, I think they should be suspended like the other two.
BEHAR: What do you think, Chuck?
CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: I think Rick Santorum should not be mad about this. He should be mad about the fact that he`s only making 100 grand a year when the others are making $1 million and $500,000 million each.
WALSHE: That would be a hard pill to swallow when he heard that news.
NICE: Yes.
BEHAR: Gingrich is making $1 million.
MICHAEL LOFTUS, COMEDIAN: That`s the best job on the planet. He does nothing. What does he do, tweet like once a year to FOX News, I`m Newt, still angry. I don`t like Obama. Yes. Cash the check.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What about Palin? She makes $1 million also. What does she exactly contribute?
LOFTUS: Nothing.
WALSHE: High ratings.
BEHAR: High ratings, that`s true. So, she deserves the million. Gingrich doesn`t bring the number in. And Huckabee makes in half a million. And he works.
LOFTUS: He`s got a show.
NICE: He`s another one who`s ticked off, too.
BEHAR: He must be really ticked off. OK. Well --
WALSHE: It`s going to be hard for him to say no to that paycheck, I think.
BEHAR: OK. But, you know, in a way, you get those two off, it gives Glenn Beck more time to lie.
LOFTUS: I think Glenn Beck probably is working on a theory right now on how there`s some other cynical thing working, you know? If you connect these dots it will show that the Pope and Vatican II did this. It`s going to be -- yes.
BEHAR: But you know what? Should more candidates be coming out of FOX? I mean, it`s really outrageous in a way. MSNBC doesn`t have anybody running?
NICE: Well, every single -- I mean, honestly, I don`t see how it makes a difference, the fact that they`re suspending their contract for this period of time. You already paid them $1 dollars. Once you paid me $1 million, you can suspend me all day long. I`m still in your pocket.
BEHAR: They still have to pay him.
NICE: Right. What`s the difference?
BEHAR: That`s true. But at least they`re not on television spewing their particular points of view. They`re not doing that.
LOFTUS: I think maybe MSNBC should get into it. I think that Ed Schultz, I`d like to see him run for something. I`m Ed, I`m angry, I`m running for president.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He`s also --
LOFTUS: He`s crazy, too. I want to see him in a mud wrestling fight with Glenn Beck. Come on, that`s a pay-per-view.
BEHAR: Well, I will pay for that.
LOFTUS: Oh, absolutely.
BEHAR: OK. Here`s another story that`s kind of odd. Remember this couple, the Salahis who crashed the White House? Well, he producers at VH1 have announced that they`re joining "Celebrity Rehab." What are they addicted to? I don`t think they know what they`re addicted to.
NICE: Are they anti-Semitic?
BEHAR: No.
NICE: OK. Because normally that`s what sends you to rehab, is that you`re anti-Semitic. So, I just thought maybe --
BEHAR: Yes, that`s the new addiction.
NICE: Yes, that`s the new addiction -- I`m addicted to hating Jewish people. Oh, help me, you know?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That would be Mel Gibson and now Charlie Sheen.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And Galliano, which we get to him in a second. But what about these Salahis, I mean, what are they going in there for?
LOFTUS: They`re addicted to fame. And that`s the irony --
(CROSSTALK)
LOFTUS: Oh, yes, yes. Hi, I`ve got a problem, and there`s just not enough cameras here, Dr. Drew, I need make-up.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But it kind of makes some mockery. Aren`t there some people on the show who have real problems?
LOFTUS: Oh, yes, who hopefully will beat the crap out of them. I mean, I want to see a crystal meth addict like someone, like a heroine junkie go after these Salahis like I`m addicted to braking into White House parties. I`m addicted to not eating.
(LAUGHTER)
NICE: I`m surprised that they even booked themselves into rehab instead of just showing up. Dr. Drew, help. Hey!
WALSHE: Maybe they`ll knock on the door, we don`t know. We`ll find out.
BEHAR: But she says that she`s had anorexia nervosa. That`s really - - she`s not -- that`s not an addiction. Not addiction because she doesn`t eat. So, when she`s addicted to not eating.
WALSHE: But what does her husband have then?
BEHAR: I don`t know. That`s the question. OK?
Now, another famed addict, Michael Lohan, is going into there. Also, Lindsay`s not happy. So, what do you think, that`s going to help the girl or not?
NICE: I don`t think Lindsay has anything that -- to do with Michael any more. At this point, though, it`s like, you know, she`s like, oh, dad. You know, like again with the rehab. Like, you know, most kids are like, oh, dad, you`re showing up at school. Oh, dad, you`re showing up at rehab?
(LAUGHTER)
LOFTUS: He`s going to steal a necklace next. I think that`s what he`s going to do. He`s going to do everything his daughter does.
WALSHE: I hope she comes visit him in rehab.
BEHAR: Now, you mentioned Galliano, John Galliano, the designer for Dior. He was fired this week because he said, I love Hitler. OK?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, I --
NICE: You just can`t make this stuff up.
BEHAR: No one loves Hitler. Eva Braun didn`t even love Hitler, OK?
LOFTUS: No, Hitler`s dog didn`t love Hitler.
BEHAR: But then he`s in rehab to cure his anti-Semitism, as you pointed. I give him credit for that in a way, go to rehab, I salute you, Mazel tov.
NICE: Yes.
WALSHE: Right.
NICE: But then, how do you know what works?
WALSHE: Apropos.
NICE: How do you know what works? It`s like, you know, I used to not like Jewish people. I went to rehab. I`m all changed now. I think I`m having a relapse coming on because I`m not sure if I like the Mexicans and Negroes. So, maybe I should go back.
(LAUGHTER)
WALSHE: He`ll get off the cocktails and then be able to not say those kinds of things.
BEHAR: Well, you know, he was drunk. He -- the drunken excuse for being anti-Semitic and racist. I mean, really, that`s bologna as far as I`m concerned, you know? Because a lot of people who get drunk just say, I really love you.
LOFTUS: Right.
NICE: Right.
LOFTUS: Some people, the booze acts like truth serum, you know? So, you find out what they`re really thinking. You want somebody sober lying or somebody drunk? At least you know what you got with the guy, there with the creepy mustache, I hate you, I love Hitler. OK, well, now, we know he`s a moron, moving on. Nice suit.
BEHAR: But, you know, people are defending this guy, quite a bit. I mean, this woman, Patricia Fields, who was the stylist for "Sex in the City," I don`t know her connection to Galliano, but she defended him. She said, "It`s theater, it`s farce," meaning what he did in the interaction. He`s not only said, `I love Hitler," by they way, he said your mother and forefathers would have been gassed.
It`s almost -- it`s so disgusting. She says, "But people in fashion don`t recognize the farce in it. All of a sudden, they don`t know him. But it`s OK when it`s Mel Brooks `The Producers` singing `Springtime for Hitler.`"
Now, first of all, Mel Brooks is Jewish, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right.
BEHAR: And he did not --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I don`t think that John Galliano is from the Jewish tradition. So, it`s a little different when you -- you as comics and I myself also, we know that if you`re going to make fun of a group, it better be your group. That is the mistake Galliano made.
WALSHE: And he wasn`t making fun of those people, he was attacking them.
LOFTUS: Or he was doing a one-man show, maybe that`s his defense. That`s my new thing, drunk racist in the club. Come on. It`s all farce, look at me.
NICE: I am the French Mel Brooks.
(LAUGHTER)
LOFTUS: It`s not racist if you sing it.
BEHAR: But he also told the woman she was ugly. So he`s like a sexist pig also.
LOFTUS: Yes, he`s just a horrible person. But I want to use that defense, you know? I`ve had some scrapes with the law, I want to use that whole, "It`s a farce, judge." Everything I do is a farce. When I stole that money, it was farcical.
WALSHE: It`s bold that she backed him up when everyone else is like, I don`t know you, good-bye.
BEHAR: But there`s some good news for the Jews this week. They hadn`t been that much good news.
WALSHE: Great news.
BEHAR: Farrakhan`s against the Jews this week. And this Galliano, Charlie Sheen makes this anti-Semitic. So, it has been a rather weird group for the Jews. But in a new book, Pope Benedict XVI has exonerated the Jewish people for the death of Jesus Christ.
LOFTUS: Wow!
WALSHE: Better late than never.
NICE: You know what, and he was there. So, that`s how old this guy is, he was actually there. So he can do it.
BEHAR: I mean, is he just trying to sell a book? Or is he serious here?
WALSHE: I don`t think he has the PR that other people do. I think that he actually believes it, which is great. If I can speak as a Jew, I`m happy for it.
BEHAR: Of course. I mean, do you know how many atrocity have been committed in the name of the Jews killed Jesus? My gosh.
LOFTUS: And now we know it was the Roman`s fault, let`s get `em, the Pope said.
(LAUGHTER)
NICE: Torches and pitchforks.
BEHAR: Fortunately, the Romans are extinct at this point.
And so, what do you think took the church so long? Actually, in the Second Vatican in 1965 did it, that was Pope John XXIII, who was a great pope. I was so attracted to him as a man and a person, and a saint and a pope.
LOFTUS: He was the hunk pope. He was the Beatle of the popes.
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: He was the Paul McCartney of popes.
LOFTUS: I was going to go with John Lennon.
BEHAR: Yes, I would go with John Lennon, too. Well, this -- what do you think?
LOFTUS: But that was, yes, that was Vatican II, that`s the one where he was
(CROSSTALK)
WALSHE: -- pope who said.
BEHAR: It was Vatican -- it was the Second Vatican Council.
WALSHE: Right, this is the first time a pope has actually said it.
BEHAR: And he has a lot of -- he happens to be a German pope. Just saying.
NICE: That`s like double.
BEHAR: That`s deep. That is deep.
NICE: That`s like a double stuffed Oreo cookie of Jewish goodness right there.
WALSHE: You`re right, Joy, that this may sell some books for him.
BEHAR: But he didn`t exonerate all the Jews, just some of them. So Bernie Madoff, for example, was left off the list.
(LAUGHTER)
LOFTUS: I think Judas may still be on the hook too. He`s in there eating dinner.
BEHAR: Let me ask you, is anyone Catholic here? I am. I was. I mean, I lapsed a little bit. But --
LOFTUS: Yes, practicing Catholic.
BEHAR: Practicing.
LOFTUS: Yes.
BEHAR: You practice, really? (INAUDIBLE)
LOFTUS: I`m still practicing. I`m still getting stand, kneel, stand, kneel, I`m still down at the back.
BEHAR: So, you think this statement from the pope will basically squash or quash -- I never know the difference -- this anti-Semitism that`s bubbling up all over the place?
LOFTUS: Hopefully, you know? But I think anybody with half a brain, if you`re looking for an enemy, you know, you`re going to find them. But anybody with half a brain isn`t, you know, holding the Jews responsible for the -- you know, like -- it`s a long time.
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: And I think, right now, Mel Gibson just went back to drinking because of what the pope just said. He`s somewhere sitting around getting hammered right now.
LOFTUS: Well, that was oddly enough, that was the whole thing with Mel Gibson`s dad was Vatican II.
BEHAR: Right. Well, he`s a denier. He`s a denier, Holocaust denier.
LOFTUS: Yes.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you guys very much.
If you`re in New York, catch Michael Loftus at the Gotham Comedy Club Friday and Saturday.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: I don`t want to be a loser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re not a loser. Where did you get the idea you`re a loser.
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Because daddy hates loser.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whoa, whoa, back up a minute. You know what a loser is? A real loser is somebody that`s so afraid of not winning, they don`t even try. Now, you`re trying, right?
UNIDENTIFIED GIRL: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, then you`re not a loser.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: He`s the Oscar winning actor who`s appeared in more than 80 films including "The In-Laws," one of my favorites, "Catch 22," one of the my favorites, and "Little Miss Sunshine," which you just saw. In his new book, "An Improvised Life: A Memoir," he talks about his life.
Welcome, Alan Arkin, to the show.
ALAN ARKIN, "IMPROVISED LIFE": Thank you, Joy.
BEHAR: How are you?
ARKIN: I`m good.
BEHAR: So, it`s lovely to meet you. I have never met you, but I have followed your career and followed you.
ARKIN: You were that person?
BEHAR: Well, I haven`t really followed you. I just followed the career.
ARKIN: I called the cops a couple times, this person is following me.
BEHAR: That was me.
ARKIN: That was you.
BEHAR: Now, first of all, I found out that you grew up in Brooklyn. So did I. What part of Brooklyn are you from?
ARKIN: Eastern Parkway. But this is way before your time.
BEHAR: Well, I grew up in Williamsburg.
ARKIN: That`s where my parents grew up, my grandparents.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
ARKIN: That`s where my son lives now.
BEHAR: Now, it`s a hip neighborhood. When I was there, you had to hang out at a mozzarella store.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: I used to go to a pickle store. I used to get them. They had holes in them. My father finally said, you know why they have holes in them? Because rats were eating them. That was the last time I went to the pickle store.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: He was just trying to scare you? Was that true, do you think?
ARKIN: Well, that`s what they told me. I don`t know if it`s true.
BEHAR: It was fun in those days, though. There was a kosher chicken market there with the rabbi. You would hear him going -- you hear them, that was the rabbi.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Wait a minute. Now, you used to imitate everybody when you were a kid.
ARKIN: I imitated everybody. You know what, people say, what a great talent. But every kid at the age of 3, 4, 5 is a perfect imitator.
BEHAR: Yes.
ARKIN: Every kid.
BEHAR: So did everybody -- did they encourage you to continue your imitations?
ARKIN: No.
BEHAR: No?
ARKIN: No. They say, Sid, Bob, who is that, Alan? Hi.
BEHAR: So, did you need attention? You were looking for attention, maybe?
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: You were. You just hang your head in shame now.
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: But you`ve done everything.
ARKIN: But everybody is a little bit of an actor.
BEHAR: I know, everybody. We all wanted, look at me, look at me.
ARKIN: Ma!
BEHAR: Yes. So, you`ve done film, theater, you`re an author, improv.
ARKIN: It`s unbelievable.
BEHAR: A master of improv and musician. A musician?
ARKIN: Unbelievable.
BEHAR: Which do you like to do the most?
ARKIN: I like to sit and look out the window. That`s what I like to do.
BEHAR: I enjoy that.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: That`s my favorite thing to do.
BEHAR: Are you sick of it all at this point?
ARKIN: No, I`m not sick of it. Not sick of all -- but to me, it`s not like -- it doesn`t feel like a big deal to me. It`s just something -- I have a boil once in a while and I pop the boil. A book comes out or a song. I never -- I`m a -- I never know what`s going to happen, Joy.
BEHAR: You never know?
ARKIN: Never know.
BEHAR: But I mean, you`re a great improviser, which you learned at second city?
ARKIN: Yes, I was terrible before I went there.
BEHAR: Why?
ARKIN: I just -- I wasn`t particularly funny. And I don`t know why they hired me. To this day, I think they made a mistake, but it took me a couple months, before I found a character that worked. And no matter what I did, as that character, it was funny.
BEHAR: But you are funny.
ARKIN: I am?
BEHAR: You are, you don`t realize it, I don`t think.
ARKIN: It`s because I don`t care any more. Once you stop caring, you get funny. That`s the rule.
BEHAR: No, you are funny. The only movie I can remember of yours that --
ARKIN: That`s the only movie you can remember?
BEHAR: No, no. That you were not funny in, really, you were scary, was "Wait Until Dark."
ARKIN: Yes, but I`ve been not funny in a lot of movies.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You were funny in "Little Miss Sunshine."
ARKIN: I was supposed to be funny.
BEHAR: You were funny in "The In-Laws," surfing (ph) time, surfing time. They keep saying over here.
ARKIN: Yes, but I wasn`t funny in "Heart is a Lonely Hunter."
BEHAR: Oh, well, I didn`t see that one. I`m sorry.
ARKIN: Well, that`s your problem.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I mean, what about theater.
ARKIN: I wouldn`t go on a stage if they paid me $40.
BEHAR: Which is what they pay.
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why? You mean the legitimate theater bores you?
ARKIN: Bores me beyond belief.
BEHAR: It does?
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why?
ARKIN: Because you have to do the same thing every night, no matter, no matter -- my son -- I did a play with my son, 10 years ago. It was the last play --
BEHAR: Adam?
ARKIN: No, no, Tony.
BEHAR: Tony?
ARKIN: My eldest.
BEHAR: Yes.
ARKIN: And he`d come off stage with me every night and he looked at me like, why did you say that to me tonight. I said I answered you last night, and I answered it very nicely. So, he said, shouldn`t we rest with that? And I know exactly what it feels like. And it`s just the repetition drives me insane.
BEHAR: So, when the actors talk about they get deeper into the part.
ARKIN: God for them.
BEHAR: You don`t buy it at all?
ARKIN: It`s good for them. It just doesn`t work for me.
BEHAR: So, would you like to be on a show like "Curb Your Enthusiasm" where they improvise --
ARKIN: No, they asked me to be on it, I said thanks anyway.
BEHAR: Why?
ARKIN: They wanted me to play the guy`s father -- what`s his name?
BEHAR: Larry David?
ARKIN: Yes. And I said, why should I play your father? I said, you look older than I do.
BEHAR: He should play your father.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: Larry should play your father.
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: I see.
ARKIN: So, he didn`t call me again.
BEHAR: I wonder why.
OK. Sit right there, we`ll be back with more from Alan Arkin in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In order to be grounded, I got be crazy and I must be crazy to keep flying. But if I ask to be grounded, that means I`m not crazy anymore and I have to keep flying to be crazy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You got it. That`s catch 22.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: We`re back talking to Oscar-winning actor Alan Arkin about his new book "An Improvised Life."
ARKIN: That was my grandson you just saw.
BEHAR: That was you.
ARKIN: What me?
BEHAR: That was you, baby.
ARKIN: That must have been a long time ago.
BEHAR: What do you think when you see that?
ARKIN: What do you I think?
BEHAR: Yes.
ARKIN: I did that a long time ago. That was --
BEHAR: Do you wish that you were -- wish that you were that young again or not?
ARKIN: I`m happier now than I`ve ever been in anybody`s life.
BEHAR: Really?
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s lovely. I see a lot of people in their older years I think are happy.
ARKIN: Hey, wait a minute.
BEHAR: Well, over 60.
ARKIN: Oh, OK, all right.
BEHAR: Yes. You know, you`re a big French film lover, I understand.
ARKIN: I wouldn`t say that. I`m a big lover of Jean Renoir.
BEHAR: Jean Renoir, the filmmaker.
ARKIN: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s nice. So, if I make -- give you a --
ARKIN: Well, wait a minute, why is that nice?
BEHAR: Well, it`s nice but it gets me nowhere.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: Too sophisticated for you?
BEHAR: No, I happen to be a Francophile myself.
ARKIN: You`re what?
BEHAR: A Francophile.
ARKIN: No, I`m not a Francophile.
BEHAR: I`m an Anglophile and a Francophile.
ARKIN: I`m not a Francophile but I`m a Jean Renoir-ophile.
BEHAR: OK. Well, no one knows who he is watching. I don`t think. I don`t remember his movies.
ARKIN: It`s a shame. Charlie Sheen they know but --
BEHAR: Exactly.
ARKIN: But Jean Renoir, they don`t know.
BEHAR: But there`s a quote from Jean Luc Godard, who is an interesting director, French.
ARKIN: Yes, French, a lot --
BEHAR: He just got a lifetime achievement award.
ARKIN: Good for him.
BEHAR: Yes. He said I pity the French cinema because it has no money. I pity the American cinema because it has no ideas.
ARKIN: Ooh.
BEHAR: It`s a heavy statement. What do you think?
ARKIN: I think it`s true to an extent. I mean, it`s a little more of a generalization than I would like to make.
BEHAR: Yes.
ARKIN: But I saw a couple movies this year I liked a lot.
BEHAR: What were they?
ARKIN: The best movie this year got no attention whatsoever, in my humble opinion a movie called "Hereafter" that was done by --
BEHAR: Oh, yes. About the death of --
ARKIN: I can`t remember anybody`s name.
BEHAR: I can`t remember who it is, either.
ARKIN: Clint Eastwood, I thought it was his best film. And I thought it was par with the best film of the year, got no attention.
BEHAR: Usually, he gets more attention than that. But it was about death and stuff.
ARKIN: Did you see it?
BEHAR: No.
ARKIN: You have an opinion already without having seen the movie.
BEHAR: I don`t need to see a movie to give a review. That`s wait I am.
ARKIN: It would be more objective that way, right?
BEHAR: But there was another movie, "Blue Valentine," which I loved. Did you see it?
ARKIN: I didn`t see it.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: I can`t have an opinion.
BEHAR: But did you like it even though you didn`t see it?
ARKIN: How could I like it with a name like that? I liked "The Fighter" a lot.
BEHAR: That was great.
ARKIN: The king`s thing.
BEHAR: The king`s thing? No, that was a porn movie you watched. "The King`s Speech."
ARKIN: "The King Speech" I saw. "The Fighter" I thought was very good. "The King Speech" I thought was very great.
BEHAR: Right. Well, there were two Oscars out of "The Fighter" this year, two supporting actors.
ARKIN: Yes, and very, very well-deserved.
BEHAR: Yes.
ARKIN: And I rarely feel that way except, of course, three years ago I felt --
BEHAR: Well, it`s wonderful to have you here, Alan. I`m afraid we have to end there.
ARKIN: Did we say anything --
BEHAR: Significant? No, but, who cares.
(LAUGHTER)
ARKIN: Did we plug my book? We didn`t mention the book.
BEHAR: I`ll plug your book and are you appearing in "the king`s thing," that`s what I want to know, because I`ll be watching that.
OK. His new memoir is called "An Improvised Life." Good night, everybody.
Thank you, Alan. Love you.
A.J. HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT`: Hello. I`m A.J. Hammer. This is the "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" news break.
Here`s what`s coming up on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT` at the top of the hour: The unbelievable Charlie Sheen frenzy. Charlie breaks a record on Twitter, more than 1 million people following his every word. Is this entertaining? Paula`s frightening 911 drama -- Paula Abdul`s frightening attempt to get out of her boyfriend`s car.
That`s your "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" newsbreak -- TV`s most provocative entertainment news show fires up at the top of the hour, right here on HLN.
END
