Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
La Toya`s Story; Cuchi-Cuchi Girl; Interview with Meredith Baxter
Aired March 04, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE Joy BEHAR SHOW La Toya Jackson gives Joy her take on the Conrad Murray trial and the Jackson family`s struggles after Michael`s death.
Then, from sitcom mom to abuse to addiction to coming out. It`s been a long journey for Meredith Baxter since the days of Family Ties and she`s here to tell Joy all about it.
Plus, Style Network`s Ruby Gettinger tells Joy how she lost over 400 pounds.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: La Toya Jackson learned all about show business growing up in one of the world`s most famous families. But now Donald Trump is going to teach her a few new tricks on the new season of the Celebrity Apprentice. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LA TOYA JACKSON, SINGER: You`ll see a different side. You`ll see this oomph. It`s going it be more of the Joe Jackson because this is what I need because I have competition here and I have a lot of strong, powerful people that I`m up against. I want to win this show and I have to put some of that energy behind in order to win.
When it comes to this, you`ll see my father in me, you`ll see Joe Jackson come out. I mean he doesn`t care. He tells it like it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I assume we`re going to see the warm and fuzzy kumbaya Joe Jackson coming out of La Toya. Joining me now is La Toya herself, Miss La Toya Jackson. I`m so happy to have you here, La Toya.
JACKSON: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I have to start by telling you I love your show.
BEHAR: Thank you.
JACKSON: I always watch it.
BEHAR: That`s nice.
JACKSON: Guess what I like the most about it? I love everything that you do, but it is so hilarious to me. When I hear your crew laughing at all your jokes in the background. That is so funny.
BEHAR: They don`t laugh at all of them and we`re going to have to deal with that.
JACKSON: Joy, they laugh out at a lot.
BEHAR: They do.
JACKSON: It`s so funny to me because they just blurt it out.
BEHAR: Yes. They`re the best.
JACKSON: I go, that`s so cool.
BEHAR: We love our crew.
JACKSON: I do, too. And congratulations.
BEHAR: Thank you.
JACKSON: You`re a grandmother.
BEHAR: I`m a grandmother. That`s right. I`ve been cheerful ever since that baby popped out.
JACKSON: I bet you`re happy.
BEHAR: I hardly felt a pain either. Contractions were nothing, you know?
So that`s intriguing what you said. What side of Joe Jackson are we going to see?
JACKSON: Meaning the side that he tells it like it is. You know, he really -- he puts his foot down when he has to. That`s what he does. That was like day one and that`s what I want to bring that out.
BEHAR: Now, the cast of Celebrity Apprentice is quite a group. You have Ninny Leakes (ph) who`s quite formidable. You have Richard Hatch who has his own history. Star Jones, formidable. Gary Busey -- it`s like The View on testosterone is what this group is. Was there a lot of drama during the taping?
JACKSON: Joy, that`s an understatement.
BEHAR: Really?
JACKSON: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Tell me everything.
JACKSON: There was -- I will. I`ll tell you as much as I can. As much as I can. No, there was so much going on. You have absolutely no idea.
And truthfully, I must say to you I would always say, I feel like I`m in prison. I just felt like I was in prison because --
BEHAR: Why?
JACKSON: There was a lot of drama. I`m not used to drama. I live and lead a very peaceful life and very calm and just from the left, from the right, it was always something going on. It`s like, geez --
BEHAR: Can you give me some details?
JACKSON: Do I have to?
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: Listen, I don`t need to give you any details. You already worked with the co-worker.
BEHAR: Who`s that?
JACKSON: Joy.
BEHAR: You know, I saw you on Wendy Williams, I guess it`s yesterday.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: And you were saying that she asked you how did you get along with Star? You said, as well as they got along on The View. What did you mine mean by that?
JACKSON: You tell me. You`re part of that View bit.
BEHAR: Well, you know, here`s the thing. We were together ten years, Star and I. We got along pretty well most of it. We had a few arguments here and there. But you know, the truth of the matter is, over ten years when you work with somebody you`re going to have a few fights.
JACKSON: Yes. That`s true.
BEHAR: We didn`t have that many fights. She was at my house. She was in my pool. We went to dinner together. I was at her wedding. It`s not all negative, negative.
JACKSON: Right. Of course. I`m not saying that either. I`m simply saying that I`m a very peaceful person and I get along with everybody. But then there`s times when people are just -- make it quite difficult for you and when people try to pick on you. It just --
BEHAR: Let`s take a look at a clip of Donald Trump asking you about your team`s name, ASAP. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JACKSON: It means Actors, Singers, Authors and Performers with a Purpose.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say it one more time. It`s artist.
JACKSON: Artist.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So we want to do it one more time.
JACKSON: We would be Artist --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And professionals.
JACKSON: Singers, actors --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Authors --
JACKSON: Authors -- I`m sorry -- authors.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That`s ok. Go ahead.
JACKSON: Artist, singers, authors and performers with a purpose. Professional. I keep forgetting professional.
DONALD TRUMP, CELEBRITY APPRENTICE: That`s all right. Don`t worry about it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Donald Trump was very sweet. The rest of them -- was he sweet to you?
JACKSON: Yes, he was very nice. That was, you know, it`s the first day, very nervous. Once you make a mistake you can`t -- I could not get it together. What it was is that I came up with the name ASAP for the team and looked around at all the girls on the team and I said we have artists, we have singers, everybody in here is an author, everybody on the team had written a book. I kept saying author.
Star decided to change it to Actors. And that kept throwing me off. I said, oh my God, I`m thrown off because I`m thinking you`re an author, you`re an author -- because they were all boasting --
BEHAR: But you were right because they`re not all actors. Look at that list. Gary Busey is the only actor there.
JACKSON: Well, on the female side?
BEHAR: And Lisa Rinna.
JACKSON: On the female side. Our team was Team ASAP. We have Lisa, we have Ninny. You know the girls, you just read it for me.
BEHAR: Right. But Ninny`s not -- oh, she has a sitcom.
JACKSON: And then we have Nicky Taylor who`s absolutely wonderful.
BEHAR: The model.
JACKSON: No, no, Nicky Taylor --
BEHAR: Essence magazine.
JACKSON: Yes. Essence. I thought you meant the other Playboy.
BEHAR: What about the other Playboy.
JACKSON: Hope was from Playboy.
BEHAR: Oh, ok. So what kind of fights are we -- come on, let`s have some dish here.
JACKSON: You`re five women on The View, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: You know what fights are like on The View. You know what they`re like.
BEHAR: You know, we don`t fight now at all. This group is very, very cohesive. We never have an argument.
JACKSON: And that`s the way it should be. And that`s how I felt it should have been. But you know, you hear it, and you turn around, I was like what`s going on now, what happened? You know sometimes, you get involved or you just walk away and say, I don`t wish to be a part of this.
BEHAR: Did anybody scare you?
JACKSON: Let me be honest with you.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: You know, in the beginning when people start yelling and fighting, I don`t like that. It frightens me. I have to contain myself from crying.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: So a couple of people scared you? Are there tears in some of the episodes? That`s great television when you start crying when someone yells at you.
JACKSON: Yes, but you don`t let them see it.
BEHAR: You don`t want them to see it.
JACKSON: Yes, you don`t let them see it.
BEHAR: But you know -- the whole show is based on --
JACKSON: I`m not saying they made me cry.
BEHAR: Oh, I see.
JACKSON: You`re going to see tears.
BEHAR: Oh, it wasn`t you?
JACKSON: We can`t tell too much. You know that. You know Donald is not allowing us to tell too much.
BEHAR: You can`t tell. No, he`s going to drag it out. I know him. Yes. But now I really want to see it. I want to see who was crying.
JACKSON: It`s going to be a great show. Honestly, it`s his best episode ever. This season is going to be the greatest.
BEHAR: Yes. I think so.
JACKSON: It really is.
BEHAR: Joan Rivers` episode was pretty damn good.
JACKSON: Oh, no. That was good. But this is going to be better. I promise you because I saw that one. This is going to be better.
BEHAR: The thing about it is that the bombastic behavior and that fighting and all that is what makes the show interesting. And also you have to turn on each other in order to get your thing accomplished.
JACKSON: Yes, well not necessarily, Joy. It happens that way sometimes because you know we forget our purpose and why we`re there. We`re there to bring awareness to our charities to whatever it is.
BEHAR: That`s right. Well, you`re doing it for a good cause. But truthfully, who is the most annoying person there?
JACKSON: Don`t ask me that question.
BEHAR: Can I have initials?
JACKSON: J.B.
BEHAR: J.B.? That`s me? I wasn`t there.
JACKSON: I`m just kidding. I was just doing that.
BEHAR: That`s cute, but I wasn`t there, La Toya.
JACKSON: I know that. That was a joke.
BEHAR: Yes. Ok. So you`re not going to tell me anything?
JACKSON: No, I`m not going to say anything. Actually, the truth is, I got along with everybody. There`s no one that I did not get along with, but then people pick on you, too, at the same time.
BEHAR: What about Ninny Leakes? Did she get along with everybody? She`s coming on this show, by the way. We`re going to have her too.
JACKSON: She is.
BEHAR: She might tell me more than you just told me.
JACKSON: I don`t know if she will or not. I`m not so sure.
BEHAR: No, boy.
JACKSON: But Ninny -- I have to be honest with you with Ninny. Ninny has a really good heart. She really does.
BEHAR: I don`t know her personally. I`m sure she does.
JACKSON: I got to know her. She has a really good heart. And I really began to like her -- I liked her from the very beginning but I realized something that she -- she didn`t realize it at the moment, and I hope she`s not offended by this, but she allowed Joy -- I`m sorry, she allowed Star to control her.
BEHAR: She did?
JACKSON: Well, not realizing it. Star used her as her mouthpiece. She was back pulling the strings.
BEHAR: Star was the puppeteer and Ninny was the puppet?
JACKSON: That`s how I viewed it. Yes.
BEHAR: You viewed it that way. We`ll see how Ninny viewed it.
JACKSON: Yes, you`ll see. But I was absolutely right. And Ninny will tell you that.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s very interesting. Well, you see, you gave me a little tidbit. Now I`m happy.
JACKSON: I know. And I shouldn`t have, but I did.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll have more with La Toya Jackson in a minute. So stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with La Toya Jackson.
Now, let`s talk about your family for a little while.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: How are your family -- how are they all doing since Michael -- Michael`s departure from this planet?
JACKSON: They`re doing well, a lot better than -- that before of course.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And you -- you do the best you can --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Fine.
JACKSON: -- at a time like that. But time you know, it goes on and - - and you try to believe that it heals all wounds. But the fact is that -- I`m very proud of the fact that his children --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes how are they doing?
JACKSON: -- are doing better than anyone.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: Children are so resilient, aren`t they?
BEHAR: Yes, sometimes.
JACKSON: They bounce back and sometimes, yes. And -- and they just - - they just -- they`re living their life the way they want and the way they should be and the way that`s proper which is really good.
Well, I`m very proud and happy for them. I am -- it was very difficult for me when --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Who`s guiding them? You`re mother?
JACKSON: My mother yes.
BEHAR: Your mother.
JACKSON: My mother is --
BEHAR: Bless her.
JACKSON: And then of course, they have the help that`s with them as well.
BEHAR: How about -- how about well, you know, well, let`s talk about the trial of Conrad Murray that`s coming up. You think he`s guilty? What do you think?
JACKSON: Do I think he`s guilty? Joy, I`ll -- I`ll tell you what I think, as I said from day one. I truly believe -- believe that he was the fall guy.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: He --
JACKSON: I believe that it was -- it was arranged and he was the fall guy and they used him to do what they`re doing. And I will always believe that and I`m certainly hoping that the truth come out and -- and in the trial that`s been pushed back as you well know until May.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, that`s right.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Well, what do you hope will come out of the trial?
JACKSON: The truth. And -- and I want justice. I really and truly want justice.
BEHAR: So do you want to see him go to prison or not?
JACKSON: Well, he was there. He -- he was -- you know, they say at the hands of -- of my brother, he was there, but there are more people involved and I think they should bring them all forth.
BEHAR: How are they going to do that, though? I mean --
(CROSS TALK)
JACKSON: Well, I`m hoping that it goes in that direction. But from what we`re looking at, it`s not going to go that way, so we`ll see what happens. Perhaps --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Are you talking about other doctors? Who are you talking?
JACKSON: Yes there are other people --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Others doctors --
JACKSON: Yes there are others.
BEHAR: That gave Michael drugs, you mean?
JACKSON: Others that were involved in this whole conspiracy. This is a conspiracy that we`re dealing with. And a lot of people don`t know that and understand that. They only know what the media feeds you. As you well know, because we believe -- see, the media is the eyes and ears to the world. Whatever they feed us is what we hear.
BEHAR: True.
JACKSON: And that`s what we believe. And that`s what the media is doing.
I want the truth.
BEHAR: And what do you think is the truth, though? That there are other people involved and what else?
JACKSON: Yes -- oh Michael told me before he passed, he told me that he was afraid that he was going to die, he`s going to murdered he said.
BEHAR: He thought he would be murdered?
JACKSON: Oh yes, he did. He said that to me.
So homicide is a murder, as far as I`m concerned. But problem is that who did it? Who actually did it?
BEHAR: Who did it?
JACKSON: Who manipulated this?
BEHAR: It might not just be one person you think.
JACKSON: Oh it`s not one personnel. Not at all.
BEHAR: Ok, now your sister, Janet, she has a new book. Are you close to Janet?
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: She has a book called "True You". Have you read the book?
JACKSON: I haven`t read the book. I`ve been so busy running. But I know it`s good.
BEHAR: It`s good and in the book -- in the interviews she talks about your father hitting her once with a belt. Did that ever happen to you?
JACKSON: I got a spanking once when I was in kindergarten, kindergarten or first grade.
BEHAR: What did you do? Why did you get a spanking?
JACKSON: I didn`t pass. I was left behind. And the reason I was left behind -- it was really weird because on my report card when you`re that young, it had all Ss.
BEHAR: Oh, yes, satisfactory.
JACKSON: And S is satisfactory.
BEHAR: Right.
JACKSON: Which is the highest grade you can get. I had all Ss. But I didn`t pass. And the reason I didn`t pass is because they said, it`s because she won`t talk, she doesn`t talk in school, she doesn`t talk in class. And I was so shy. I was like this. I wouldn`t talk. But my grades were just top.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: And so they said, well maybe if we leave her back she`ll speak in school. Well, after that beating I spoke.
BEHAR: Really so you -- does your father actually thought that if he hit you, you we`re going to talk?
JACKSON: Well, you know what it is Joy, and I have to be quite honest with you, back then in those days everybody spanked their children basically. And that`s the way people grew up in a lot of the households for discipline.
But we learned today that you don`t do that. We`re talking about 30- something years. You know? Or more way back there. And that`s what parents did.
Today they don`t do it that way because we have this child abuse rule now which is quite different.
BEHAR: Well, I think that, you know, some people believe in that type of discipline. I don`t believe in it.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: My family never spanked me or anything like that.
JACKSON: Well, neither do I.
BEHAR: Yes, well, now we -- you know better. You know better.
JACKSON: Yes. Neither do I.
BEHAR: But I always feel like when -- when the parents are strapping and hitting their kids, like sometimes it looks like they`re enjoying it. And that bothers me.
JACKSON: No, I don`t think so. I think that he -- he instilled discipline, but it wasn`t -- it wasn`t bad. I`m older now. And I realize that, you know, he was raising children, and thing of that nature. It wasn`t bad at all.
BEHAR: No. Did he hit Michael?
JACKSON: He`s into spanking.
BEHAR: He spanked Michael.
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Did any of the children --
JACKSON: People spanked people back then. They really did.
BEHAR: In some families. But your father did quite a bit of it according to Janet. You know, she says he hit her with a belt. That`s --
JACKSON: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s -- that`s rough. To a little kid.
JACKSON: Yes he did the spanking with a belt.
BEHAR: I mean, does he regret any of that now? Which --
(CROSS TALK)
JACKSON: Yes, of course he does. My -- my father has a very good heart.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: Don`t get it wrong. He has a very good heart. And that was his way of I guess trying to instill being a disciplinarian at that particular time for -- for the kids to understand. And you have to look at us now. All -- I think everybody in the family, of course, quiet and shy the whole bit, but everyone`s very good children, very good kids.
BEHAR: You`re not that shy anymore like you used to be.
(CROSS TALK)
JACKSON: No, I`ve come out of the shell.
BEHAR: You`ve come out of your shell.
JACKSON: Because you know what? I`m happy.
BEHAR: Because you feel happy now.
JACKSON: I`m happy. There are no restrictions on my life. And I`m happy. And that`s very important.
BEHAR: What`s your personal life like?
JACKSON: My personal life is very good.
BEHAR: Yes.
JACKSON: It`s very good. I -- well, personally I know you mean personally intimately, but that`s -- that`s fine.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, you tell me whatever you want.
JACKSON: If that happens, it`ll happen. If I meet someone, that will be wonderful. But I`m just busy working and doing what I love to do. Being an entrepreneur and doing things of that nature.
BEHAR: Do you want to have children?
JACKSON: You know, I`ve always since I was 16 wanted to adopt. I always felt that there were tons of children in the world that need someone to care for them and need love and attention and I could provide that for them.
And I`ve never had the opportunity because I`ve been so busy and going through situations that has brought me to where I am today. And, yes, I do wish to adopt.
BEHAR: Oh you do?
JACKSON: Yes. I have a gift for you.
BEHAR: You have a gift?
JACKSON: I`m just -- out of the blue. I have a gift for you. I got you a little gift.
BEHAR: Well, that`s nice of you. What is that? Shall I open it?
JACKSON: Yes, you can open it.
BEHAR: Makeup.
JACKSON: Makeup.
BEHAR: I love it.
JACKSON: You do?
BEHAR: Dream Cream.
JACKSON: Dream Cream.
BEHAR: You know, a woman of a certain age needs all the moisturizing she can get.
JACKSON: Oh this is really great. No, this is great, it`s for the hands. You`re going to love it.
BEHAR: Oh are you selling this stuff? Is that you on the picture?
JACKSON: That`s me on the cover. This is my cream from my line, La Toya Luxurious collection. Look at this. Look at this.
BEHAR: Oh very nice.
JACKSON: Look at the -- look at the crystals. Isn`t this great? This has diamond dust in it.
BEHAR: Oh look how pretty that is.
JACKSON: Joy, isn`t that -- those are Swarovski crystals.
BEHAR: Very -- the bling.
JACKSON: There`s 250 of those.
BEHAR: That`s beautiful.
JACKSON: Isn`t that great?
BEHAR: Yes that`s nice.
JACKSON: I love it. You`ll love the texture.
BEHAR: Well, thank you very much, La Toya.
JACKSON: You`re welcome. I thought you might like it.
BEHAR: What`s next for you?
JACKSON: Oh, I`m working on this, I am working on a lot of different things like different companies that I`m working with. We have a product called Auto Spa making a product which is a cleaner that you use and you wash your car because when we wash our cars every single day the people that are washing, we lose from 50 to 70 gallons of water washing our car alone.
BEHAR: That`s why I never wash my car.
JACKSON: But with this product that we have you will love it. You would love it. With this product you can take one bottle, wash your car about seven to eight times.
BEHAR: Really?
JACKSON: And that --
BEHAR: Can you use it on your hair at the same time?
JACKSON: Wouldn`t that be great?
BEHAR: Yes. That would be good.
JACKSON: That was -- but now, it`s a great product though. You`ll love it.
BEHAR: Ok. Listen, it was really fun to have you here.
JACKSON: Thank you. I love you.
BEHAR: Good luck with all of your enterprises.
JACKSON: Why, thank you, you`re so great.
BEHAR: Thank you sweetie, it was so nice to have you here.
JACKSON: It`s good seeing you.
BEHAR: The new season of "Celebrity Apprentice" premieres Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on NBC.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARO: Those of you that don`t know what the hell cuchi-cuchi means, cuchi-cuchi (INAUDIBLE), my way not Beyonce way. She copy from me. So this is the right way, to the right, to the left, to the front. Cuchi- cuchi mean bump or sex or whatever you want to do. It is life and I express cuchi-cuchi when I am very happy and when I am very horny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: It is an interesting philosophy. That was Charo`s last appearance on this show explaining cuchi-cuchi, which needs no explanation. Really.
CHARO: No, no, it means money.
BEHAR: It means money, that`s right.
BEHAR: OK. I mean, the cuchi-cuchi has got what you got here -- what got you here.
CHARO: Cuchi-cuchi was my survival. When I came to this country, stranger (ph) and graduate with honor again by the great guitarist Andres Segovia, I went to "The Tonight Show," Joy. I went to the producer, probably you remember, you know, de Cordova (ph), and I said, Freddy de Cordova (ph), can I play flamenco? And I`m holding my guitar in my hand. He said, Charo, we don`t have flamenco band for you to play here with. Then I said, OK, I want to survive, I got to make money, I want to make it in this beautiful country, I want to do whatever, and (INAUDIBLE) and everything. I`ll do that.
BEHAR: And you did it, and you did it, and it worked.
CHARO: Now "Sexy Sexy".
BEHAR: Oh, yeah, "Sexy Sexy." That`s your new CD.
CHARO: When you hold it, hold it this way not because -- well, bueno (ph). This is the new remix, I play the guitar. The DJ, when they were training the discotheque, they called and said why don`t you have a version where also you play the drumbeat (ph) also guitar. And it`s unbelievable.
What she is doing right now is a hell of a favor, because she has a good luck for me. Thank you for holding it. "Sexy Sexy," in a week, available in iTunes.
BEHAR: OK. I have a couple of questions. You know what Twitter is?
CHARO: Yes. I cannot Twitter because I Twitter with an accent.
BEHAR: "You look great, what kind of plastic surgery have you had?"
CHARO: Not yet. But I`m going to have it. And I`m going to have it -- I`m going to call Joy Behar show. When I think it`s hanging down.
But you know what? I admire Joan Rivers with passion, because --
BEHAR: Joan Rivers. I`m translating a little bit.
CHARO: No, no, no, they got it. Joan Rivers is a survivor. She`s a hard worker. She`s a genius. She was very cute before the plastic surgery. Now she look more beautiful. But she used to be Jewish. Now she looks Chinese.
CHARO: No, I love her.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She doesn`t look Chinese.
CHARO: A little bit like this. You don`t think so?
BEHAR: I don`t think so. Now wait, before you go, because I only have a minute --
(CROSSTALK)
CHARO: Oh, I have to go --
BEHAR: White Party in the Palm Springs, the largest gay dance music festival in New York -- in America.
CHARO: In the world. It`s going to be in Palm Springs, and they debut "Sexy Sexy," the party mix, and I love to be there. It`s an honor.
BEHAR: The gays love you.
CHARO: Let me tell you why.
BEHAR: In Palm Springs.
CHARO: Let me tell you why. I believe in no discrimination. And I believe that white people have to be (INAUDIBLE). They are human like you, like me, like everyone else, genius to begin with.
Hollywood owes a lot to gays, and it`s an honor to be there and debut "Sexy Sexy". Thank you for letting me say it.
BEHAR: On "The View?" This is not "The View."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, the debut.
BEHAR: Oh, debut.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: (INAUDIBLE)
CHARO: (INAUDIBLE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- at the White Party. Go to jeffreysanger.com (ph). And we`ll be right back.
CHARO: Hasta la vista.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And what you want to disclose is --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re here to say it.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know what`s the appropriate etiquette here?
MEREDITH BAXTER: I just wanted to say that I`m a lesbian, and it was a late -- later in life recognition of that fact.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: America fell in love with Meredith Baxter as the quintessential TV mom on "Family Ties," but in her new book, "Untied: A Memoir of Family, Fame and Floundering", she reveals that behind the scenes, she struggled with alcohol, breast cancer, her sexuality and abuse.
So please welcome to the show, Meredith Baxter.
MEREDITH BAXTER, ACTRESS, AUTHOR, "UNTIED": Hey.
BEHAR: It`s nice to have you here, really. I`m a big fan.
BAXTER: Thank you.
BEHAR: And we`ve watched you over the years and you`re just wonderful with comedy and everything else.
BAXTER: Thank you so much.
BEHAR: Yes.
BAXTER: I`m really glad to be here.
BEHAR: Wasn`t it nice to say I`m a lesbian? That must have been--
BAXTER: No, it was not.
BEHAR: No, it was not? Why not?
BAXTER: I was waiting for him to say it.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
BAXTER: Like, when he said, you have something to tell us, it was like -- well, go on, Matt, do I have to say this? No. As I was watching this, I thought -- I remembered, I thought I was going to wet myself. It was just horrible.
BEHAR: What made you decide to do it on television like that? Because that`s before the book, so.
BAXTER: Well, I sort of -- I didn`t decide. It was sort of the same way I got married, Howard.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Howard is your publicist. People on this show always refer back to their publicist.
BAXTER: May you always have a publicist in the wings. Howard was there to help me deal with the fact that I had been on a lesbian cruise, and there were some rag sheets, tabloids were coming and asking questions, and there were -- I knew from just past experience they were going to make up stories with a kernel of truth and elaborate on something that became their own, and they would run with it and I would have no voice in it.
BEHAR: I see.
BAXTER: And Howard said that the only way to claim it was to come in and usurp -- you sort of beat them at their game.
BEHAR: And you did it?
BAXTER: Yes, I did it.
BEHAR: So was it a relief?
BAXTER: Not at that time. But as soon as we left the building, Nancy was sitting in the wings--
BEHAR: Nancy your present girlfriend?
BAXTER: My--
BEHAR: Your darling?
BAXTER: My darling.
BEHAR: Yes.
BAXTER: As soon as we left the building, it was -- and it was quiet, it was raining, we were under a huge umbrella. It was slight, misty rain, it was very cold. And we just walked and it was so peaceful. It was like, I did not have any burdens anymore.
BEHAR: That`s so nice.
BAXTER: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s awful to have to keep a secret like that.
BAXTER: It wasn`t even a very extensive secret. It was like, you know, they all know now. It doesn`t matter now.
BEHAR: You write in the book that you had your first sexual relationship with a woman in 1992, right?
BAXTER: 1992, 1993, yes.
BEHAR: And then you married -- so you had this, OK, you might have thought to yourself, hey, maybe I like ladies. But then--
BAXTER: I never thought that. I cannot explain so much -- you know, I adored the woman so much. She was such a good friend. But it seemed like just the next natural step in our relationship. But it was not very sexual to me. So -- and I think I thought, well, there`s this guy over here kind of paying attention to me, and I`m desperate for someone to pay attention to me, so how about you?
BEHAR: So you married a guy? You got married another time then?
BAXTER: Yes.
BEHAR: And that didn`t last, though, right?
BAXTER: It couldn`t have lasted.
BEHAR: No.
BAXTER: I had learned nothing about why I got into relationships. I didn`t know that I was run by this engine of take care of me. I didn`t ever see what my part was, that I, too, had had that agenda. And I knew everything about him that I needed to know. You know, the great thing about this guy, he didn`t hit me. He didn`t denigrate me.
BEHAR: Yeah.
BAXTER: I was his.
BEHAR: So he was, compared to the other one, he was great.
BAXTER: He was great. Everything I needed.
BEHAR: Yeah. OK, so then you divorced him?
BAXTER: Yes.
BEHAR: And then in 2003, things changed for you sexually. What happened then?
BAXTER: You know, a woman moved into the guest house, my guest house, and I live in a private street with a -- it`s a gated house, not some big thing, it`s a modest little house. I knew she was gay, and it just -- you know, I just started being very aware of where she was all the time.
BEHAR: So you thought (ph) yourself attracted to a woman.
BAXTER: Yeah, I had never -- you know, no penny dropped and went. I didn`t have any label for it. It was like -- where is she? Oh, home, OK, good to see she`s home. And you know, we`d go to movies together, we`d take walks together or something. And I had -- I went away on a job for a short bit, and we texted each other and became decidedly --
BEHAR: Romantic?
BAXTER: Yes. It was -- there were provocative texts. And it was like, I was, you know, she was 25 years younger than me. I was like, this -- this--
BEHAR: Men do it all the time, big deal.
(LAUGHTER)
BAXTER: It was a big deal to me.
BEHAR: I know, but only because you`re female. You know? Every guy who is 50 loves a 25-year-old girl, and they go along with it, if he`s got money.
BAXTER: Oh, this is a whole other conversation.
(CROSSTALK)
BAXTER: I don`t even know how to have this one.
BEHAR: You know, I have to ask one question about gay women, because I know a lot of women who were in your situation, who were married -- not a lot, but several, though. They were married for several years, and then at some point, they realized that they are gay.
BAXTER: Right.
BEHAR: And two things. First of all, were you faking it with the guys in bed or not?
BAXTER: No.
BEHAR: You were not? So you were enjoying it?
BAXTER: It wasn`t a lot to fake because it wasn`t always -- no, I wasn`t faking it. I guess that`s all I`ll say.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, we can read between the sheets.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And then what do you think is the truth of all that in retrospect, like you`re straight at one point with guys, then you`re gay with women. Is it that you were gay all along? Do you think?
BAXTER: I can`t speak for anybody else, because I`ve heard many people talk about that kind of story--
BEHAR: I was just curious about that.
BAXTER: And people would say to me, you were living a lie. Which I truly wasn`t.
(CROSSTALK)
BAXTER: I was so un-self-examined. I was just looking to keep my head above the water. Every day my mantra living with David was, I can live through this. I can live through this.
BEHAR: Yes.
BAXTER: Because I was just fighting the pain all the time. I never stopped to say, what do you want, Meredith? What`s going on with you? What would you like? It never occurred to me. So I just sort of did what I watched as a child. You know, we just learn from those around us. And that`s what I saw.
BEHAR: That`s right.
BAXTER: So that`s what I went to.
BEHAR: And yet you were very successful in your career.
BAXTER: Again, a totally different subject. Had nothing to do with my private life. I really learned to compartmentalize, that when I go to work, home life didn`t exist. So I could be happy and constructive and creative and a contributor and they liked me, and I was free to be who I wanted to be.
BEHAR: OK. Now I have a little surprise for you.
BAXTER: What`s that?
BEHAR: Michael Gross, remember him?
BAXTER: Yes.
BEHAR: Your co-star on "Family Ties" is on the phone now.
BAXTER: Michael?
BEHAR: Hello, Michael.
MICHAEL GROSS: Hi, Meredith, I swear to God I`m not stalking you.
(CROSSTALK)
BAXTER: That was going to be my question.
GROSS: They invited me.
BEHAR: We invited him to come on to talk to you.
GROSS: And as she never returns phone calls, this is my only chance to do it.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, the old Meredith Baxter would have returned a call in two seconds. Now she says, maybe I`ll return it.
BAXTER: No, the truth is, if it was Michael, I would never return it. I love this man. I love this man. He was my dearest, dearest friend for seven years intensely on doing "Family Ties."
GROSS: And vice versa, my dear.
BAXTER: And he and his wife Elsa (ph) and Nancy and I have been out several times together and we`ve done work together since then. He is the dearest, most loving, most supportive guy.
BEHAR: At the time, though, you were friends and working together, "Family Ties" was on the air, and you were with Birney at the time, right?
BAXTER: Yes.
BEHAR: So, Michael, did you detect any kind of unhappiness? Did Meredith display any tension at home? Anything? Did you pick it up?
GROSS: No. She was very good at hiding who she was and what was going on. And part of that was my complete -- I was complicit in that, in that I`m a clueless human being at times, and so I wasn`t looking for anything. Because in a sense, I had bought the PR. The perfect Hollywood marriage, they were being interviewed all the time. This is a Hollywood marriage that works, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I chose to believe the best.
BEHAR: Well, what happened when she told you?
GROSS: When -- are you asking me what happened when I learned?
BEHAR: Yes. When she broke down and told you, what happened?
GROSS: Well, no one could have been more surprised than I. And -- because Meredith is and still is a very private person, and so I was -- I was shocked. And a little appalled because I think you tend -- I see this bright, intelligent, funny, talented woman, and I think, oh, OK, she`s in control of her life.
BEHAR: Yeah. It looks like that on the surface a lot of times. You just don`t know what is going on behind closed doors, do we?
BAXTER: No. Poor baby. And it was like the deluge. You know how you`re just fine, you`re doing all fine all the time until someone touches your cheek and says "honey," and I was gone. I was gone.
BEHAR: It`s always the kindness that someone shows that makes you break down.
GROSS: Meredith, I am so glad it was I, to be honest with you, because, you know, it began, I think, to forge our relationship in a different way. We were confidants about certain things, but that was the beginning of the turning of the corner, and we`ve been close ever since. And I cherish this relationship.
BAXTER: Oh, I do, too.
BEHAR: Thank you, Michael, for calling in.
BAXTER: Oh, thank you. I love you so much, Michael.
GROSS: Where-- Meredith, that goes for me, too. Where are you going to be tomorrow so I can call you again?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And will you answer, will you return the calls to him?
BAXTER: No.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I`ve got to go, Michael. Thanks so much for calling in.
BAXTER: Thanks, honey.
BEHAR: So lovely to meet you.
BAXTER: Give my love to Elsa.
GROSS: Will do.
BEHAR: Really lovely to meet you, Meredith.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I mean, we did meet once before, years and years ago, briefly.
BAXTER: Yeah. I didn`t think you would remember.
BEHAR: Of course I remember. You`re a big star. I remember. Thanks for doing this. Good luck with the book. It`s a terrific book.
BAXTER: Thank you.
BEHAR: It`s a great read. Everybody wants to read it.
BAXTER: Great, and I hope you do.
BEHAR: And they will.
OK, Meredith`s new book is called "Untied: A Memoir of Family, Fame, and Floundering." We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: At her heaviest, Ruby Gettinger weighed in a life-threatening 715 pounds. Since her hit Style Network show "Ruby" premiered in 2008, she`s shed an astounding 400 pounds. Ruby`s weight loss journey has inspired countless others to take charge of their own health, even as she faces challenges and setbacks along the way. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RUBY GETTINGER, STAR, "RUBY": In the past, I didn`t even know I`d gained 100 pounds, because I was wearing those big, huge tent dress. Now I can fit in capris and jeans and shorts and stuff that`s tighter. I can tell I`m gaining weight instead of losing. I`m just sick of this. I`m sick of myself. You know what I mean?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK. With me now is the very charming Ruby Gettinger.
Ruby, welcome to the show.
GETTINGER: Thank you for having me.
BEHAR: Let`s start with the loss rather than the gaining.
GETTINGER: I love you.
BEHAR: I know.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: It`s nice. You went from 716 to 302.
GETTINGER: Yes.
BEHAR: How did you do that?
GETTINGER: I just finally made up my mind to do it. Plus, the doctor said I was going to die if I didn`t.
BEHAR: Of course.
GETTINGER: And even though they say that, it`s something that controls you and you really don`t know why. This thing controlled me forever. And I finally had to get in my head, you`re going to fight this again, once again. Because I`ve dieted my entire life. I`ve felt like I`ve gone on this diet, lost this weight. But this time, I said you`re going to do this and you`re going to find out the real reason behind this, if it`s just eating, if it`s exercise, or is it something more. Never knowing I was going to find out it was so emotional.
BEHAR: What was the phrase you just used, it takes charge of you?
GETTINGER: It totally controls me.
BEHAR: It controls you, what does that mean?
GETTINGER: Like you just said, it takes charge of your life. It`s like everything else in my life I had control over. It`s like, I could do anything I wanted to. I put my mind to something, I do it. But this one thing, I could not do. It was like, it totally took over my life. I was 716 pounds. I was 300 in high school. I was 400, 500--
BEHAR: So your whole life you`ve been fighting this?
GETTINGER: Forever. And I`m looking in the mirror, it`s so deceiving, too. This -- I can`t really explain it because I`m still learning about it. But this addiction is so deceiving, because you`re looking in a mirror and just like anorexic people, they look in the mirror and they see themselves fat. I would look in a mirror and I would go, I`m not that big, at 716. But I saw myself -- the first time I saw myself on video, I was like, oh, my gosh. Who is that? I talked about myself in the third person. I couldn`t believe that was me.
BEHAR: So the mirror didn`t do it but the video did it?
GETTINGER: Oh, my gosh. I was just shocked.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Why do you think that is?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: This was like watching a third person.
GETTINGER: It really was. I was going, where is her leg? I didn`t know I wobbled until I saw it. I was wobbling and I had no idea I was doing that until I saw myself on the video.
BEHAR: I see. You know, I have to say, I mean, if the doctors tell you you`re 700 pounds, that`s way too heavy. The taxing on your heart, your kidneys, all your organs is brutal. Why not just get that gastric bypass or the lap band? Why bother with dieting at this point?
GETTINGER: Well, back then, when I started thinking, you know, it came out and you started hearing of people doing that, it was very expensive. There was no way -- I couldn`t even get insurance. I was working. They would not allow me to have insurance because they said I was a health risk, and this is before the diabetes started coming into my body.
And when I started doing this, I had always told people, if that`s what you have to do, if it means saving your life, do it. Do whatever you have to do to save your life. But I didn`t want to do that yet. I wanted to see if I could beat this, only because I kept hearing people -- and especially a doctor, when I went to get my heart checked, just to see if it is OK, this doctor said to me, you can`t fit on the table. You have to be 350 pounds. And I`m sitting there going, well, how do you have surgery if you can`t fit on a table? That kind of surgery, and you can`t take my blood pressure.
BEHAR: Well, you probably can`t.
GETTINGER: Well, they are giving surgery to people -- that surgery they give to people who are 400 and 500 pounds. The guy said to me --
BEHAR: Really?
GETTINGER: Because I went, I`m just going to go on a diet. He said, you know what, I found out in my profession that there`s no way people like you can lose weight. And the best thing to do is have surgery. That made me so mad, because I was like -- because I`m pretty strong --
BEHAR: Well, you`ve lost weight. You know how to do it.
GETTINGER: Right. I know.
BEHAR: But then you still -- you gained back 60 of those--
GETTINGER: We`re not talking about that, right?
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We`re about halfway through, so I had to get to it.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you lost all the weight and then you gained 60, which is a drop in the bucket really when you think from 716, I mean, to 302, now you went up to what, 362?
GETTINGER: Yes. And it scared me so bad because it was happening and I was blaming the scale. This is how you`re in such denial, you don`t even realize it. But it was happening to me and I kept saying, it`s the scales. It`s not me. I know what I`m doing, but I started -- you know, I started going through emotional stuff because I`m trying to find out the memories of childhood, and dreams started happening to me where I`m having these nightmares that are horrible, and I`m going back to snack eating. But I didn`t go buy the Krispy Kreme donuts, I didn`t go back to candy. I was going back to eating sugar-free stuff, fat-free stuff, and that`s what started making me gain the weight.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s interesting for people to hear.
GETTINGER: Hear me loud and clear, that will make you gain weight.
BEHAR: So the stuff that they sell, the sugar-free, fat-free, why not?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why does it make you heavy?
GETTINGER: Because you`re sitting there, you`re eating more of it thinking you`re getting away with something, but it`s the fat and it`s the sugars, it`s the same --
BEHAR: It`s the calories.
GETTINGER: Oh, it`s loaded with calories.
(CROSSTALK)
GETTINGER: Exactly. And when it says -- you also have to look at the portion size, too. I`m sitting there thinking this is 100 calories, this little chocolate thing. There`s two portions in this chocolate thing. There was 200. I`m like, what are you doing?
BEHAR: OK, let`s take a break. We`ll have more with Ruby when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Ruby Gettinger, star of the Style Network show "Ruby." And joining us is Ramani Durvasula, a psychologist featured on "Thintervention." Welcome to the show, Dr. Ramani.
Ruby, what is your history with men?
GETTINGER: I`ve had one boyfriend, and I wouldn`t say it had any passion to it or anything, but he was the one guy that crossed over. I was with him for eight and a half years.
BEHAR: What do you mean he crossed over?
GETTINGER: All these guys would say you have a beautiful face. If you`d just lose your weight, you`re a great girl, but nobody would ever sit there and play that role, which he really didn`t, but we really were strictly platonic more than --
BEHAR: Yeah.
GETTINGER: -- passion (inaudible).
BEHAR: It`s tough to find a guy when you`re overweight.
GETTINGER: You can find a guy that would take you for a booty call, where it`s like let`s go home for one night and that`s it, but I am not going to do that. I want a relationship. I want a guy like that.
BEHAR: I see. What challenges, Dr. Ramani, what challenges do overweight people face in the dating world? It must be tough, right?
DR. RAMANI DURVASULA, PSYCHOLOGIST: It is tough. I mean, dating is difficult at any weight, but certainly when a person is struggling with overweight in a culture that overvalues being overthin, it makes it all the more difficult. And I really think that Ruby highlights some really important issues about you really want a relationship, you want someone to care about you for you, and you feel like it`s hard when you`re judging yourself harshly on your appearance. So there are a lot of challenges that I think an overweight person faces in an already difficult swimming pool of dating.
BEHAR: Right. You know, you mentioned in the other segment about repressed memories coming back to you. I could ask both of you this question. How much of this morbid obesity have to do with a trauma in childhood? Because it seems to me that all of that adipose tissue is to keep people away. Did someone attack you or molest you?
GETTINGER: I don`t remember any of that yet. But I know that my dreams are telling me that somebody is always trying to kill me by strangulation or poison. And there`s -- everybody there that I know is in the room but they don`t see it, and I`m mad at them but I`m like--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You keep having the same dream?
GETTINGER: There`s always different ways of trying to kill me. Somebody is always trying to kill me.
BEHAR: So it`s possible, doctor, that she has a repressed memory which is causing this food addiction? Yes?
DURVASULA: The work on repressed memories is very controversial. What I would prefer to think about is that there`s some really difficult and dark emotional issues that can lead someone to eat in an out-of-control way or eat in a way that`s abusive toward their body. Now there`s definitely a literature that supports the idea that people who have been sexually abused in childhood are very much vulnerable to abusing their bodies in a variety of ways, whether that`s drug abuse, alcohol abuse, or food. And so, again, food becomes inappropriately used as a tool of emotional management. That`s not what it`s designed to do. But let me tell you, it does a heck of a job to numb us and distance us from other people, which makes dating hard, it makes intimacy hard.
BEHAR: There`s nothing like a lot of food to put you into a coma.
GETTINGER: Oh my gosh.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You just fall asleep and then you don`t have to deal.
GETTINGER: And the first thing a child medicates with and gets their hands on is what, food.
BEHAR: And you have to eat a lot. Every day you have to do it. It`s not like marijuana or even drinking, where it`s sort of optional in a way. Food is not optional.
GETTINGER: And food is so comforting. It`s soothing.
BEHAR: I know, we all love it.
GETTINGER: Unfortunately, I hate it. I love it, but I hate it.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, ladies. You can catch the season premiere of "Ruby" Sunday at 8 p.m. on Style. Good night, everybody.
END
