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Joy Behar Page
Charlie Sheen Fired; Chatty Kathy; Miley Cyrus Made Her "Saturday Night Live" Hosting Debut Over Weekend; Are Women Better?
Aired March 07, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: A new book out says that women are better than men at just about everything. They make better cops, better drivers, better world leaders, even better hedge fund managers. And you know I agree wholeheartedly.
It also says women have better memories. Case in point, that guy, what`s his name? You know who I`m talking about. What`s his -- come on -- Bobby, who is it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, from Judy Garland to Charlie Sheen, Hollywood has almost always turned a blind eye to bad behavior as long as the star is making money. Joy looks at the laundry list of managers, publicists and agents who have benefitted from Sheen`s latest problems.
Then, Oscar winner Kathy Bates is here to tell Joy about surviving cancer and her career playing no-nonsense women.
And Mike Huckabee blasts actress Natalie Portman for glamorizing single mothers. Does he have a point or is he out of line.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: Well, Charlie Sheen has been fired from "Two-and-a-Half Men". Warner Brothers said today that they are terminating Sheen`s service effective immediately. Charlie Sheen reportedly told TMZ this is good news.
Here now with her take is Brett Butler, who is the star of the hit sitcom "Grace under Fire", before she was fired due to bad behavior and struggled with drug abuse. Welcome to the show Brett. How are you, my dear?
BRETT BUTLER, ACTRESS: Really good, Joy. Hey, how are you?
BEHAR: You look great.
BUTLER: Thank you. Thank you. It`s good to see you. The last time I was here, I was with Rihanna and this. I`m pretty sure I`m done with my cycle of Dante and hell in parts of my life. But this is, yes, they just fired him, right and he`s happy.
BEHAR: Why does he say this is good news? What does that mean?
BUTLER: Because you know, I don`t want anyone to feel the levels of shame or regret that I did and still do about that whole thing, but if anybody -- he doesn`t -- I don`t want anybody to feel any of it. We`re in different places, but I`ve been through that.
It was in February. They said we`re going to stop until end of the season and it was stopped for all time. I didn`t know what all the calls were. I don`t pay attention to gossip, but I eventually got it. A similar thing was happening.
BEHAR: I want to tell you why I wanted to talk to you today. Because you have a lot in common with this story.
BUTLER: Yes.
BEHAR: You were the star of a highly rated TV show and you were fired and then that was the end of the show. Just like what happened to Charlie today. You admitted to being addicted to painkillers while you were filming "Grace under Fire".
And the third thing, which is ironic and interesting is that you worked for Chuck Lorre, the producer of "Two-and-a-Half Men". He`s the executive producer of the Charlie Sheen show. I mean it`s interesting, isn`t it? That whole thing -- the similarities between the two of you.
BUTLER: I hope I`d be the last person that happened to. All of it. I didn`t blame, no matter how mad you get at anybody else, if you`re right or wrong, it`s you. If you are addicted to something, you`ll get sideswiped and something isn`t your fault, but because you are, yes. And we both have the same manager, who`s a really loyal mensch. And somebody who supported us --
BEHAR: At this point, right now, you have the same manager?
BUTLER: Yes. I mean I have a rather, I`m not on all these shows. The last thing I wanted to do was they didn`t have TMZ back in that century, but the last thing I wanted to do was defend myself for decrying anyone else`s behavior. Even when you`re sobered up, you kind of want to bite your tongue sometimes.
In retrospect, I don`t regret not ever putting my two-cents in. I didn`t have a leg to stand on, really.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
Now, do you think that this termination could be a wake-up call for him? Because you know he`s --
BUTLER: It wasn`t for me.
BEHAR: He seems out of control.
BUTLER: It wasn`t for me.
BEHAR: Was not.
BUTLER: No. It took my husband left me and that was -- that didn`t do it. I was fired. You start to get, actually, the worst part of it is just the look in the eyes of the people that believed in you and loved you. You start to think, you know, you feel these things like well, it`s all this pressure. It`s all this or it`s all that.
And the fact of the matter is that I didn`t do -- it starts to happen a long time before anyone else notices it. And in my case, it didn`t have any of the -- I didn`t go to Barbados with anyone in a bikini but it might have been a better career move for me if I did.
BEHAR: Well, you know, you mentioned rumors. A lot of rumors circulated when you left the show. I`m going to give you a chance to clear them up right now because I don`t know what was true and what wasn`t true. So --
BUTLER: You know what? After 12 years, if I didn`t dignify it then, you never win doing this. You can go -- the thing about the antelope is true but I never saw that ostrich before. It`s not important. It`s not important what anyone says or believes.
And that`s why I`m only doing this. I did TV Guide. I`m not making myself sound like I`m some special, wonderful person, you know, or exclusive or anything. I just have other things to do and hopefully live for.
I don`t know how I feel about this, but I`ve been living in self- imposed exile almost.
BEHAR: I know.
BUTLER: And I think I`m about done with that, so to go back in time and I don`t want to write any tell-all or get my side of it or anything. I don`t mean to shoot it in your show.
Dr. Drew is right about almost everything he says even though he`s well and he`s not an addict. I think he`s one of the few people that kind of have a bead on not only what we do to ourselves, but like I told your producer, if one pony falls off the carousel, you have no idea. There`s other painted ones ready to take your place. You think you`re not replaceable.
BEHAR: But you know, you did express concern at that time that you could die. I mean did you think that you`ll end up like Michael Jackson?
BUTLER: I nearly did. And yes, I nearly did. That wouldn`t have been anyone`s fault but mine.
BEHAR: And what about this producer, Chuck Lorre? I know that you fought with him back in the day. Do you think he handled the situation well at all with his vanity thing?
BUTLER: I don`t know about that. I think retaliating, it`s very difficult not to do because it`s your work and Chuck works very hard and does a lot of things. And you know what? He`s a talented television writer and I`ve conveyed my gratitude to him about the quality of the show and everything. But to retaliate publicly is sort of like if a two-year- old bites me and I write a letter to the editor, who`s got to be frustrated. It`s got to be maddening and also, it`s got to be heartbreaking.
You, I know it takes more than one person to make a hit show. And Chuck`s behind more than one. It`s -- I can`t sit here and say anything Charlie says is ridiculous. It`s beside the point. I want him to live. And I`m sure Chuck does, too, by the way.
BEHAR: I`m sure. Nobody`s wishing anybody to be dead. I mean it`s just a matter of money at this point. I mean even your producers ultimately decided to fire you and you said --
BUTLER: They`ll be fine.
BEHAR: -- all in one day, like a bad country song, my husband left me, I got fired and even gave my dog to my sister. And I knew for sure it was all over when I went to the lot to get my stuff and armed guards escorted me. Where do you think you`d be if they hadn`t fired you from the show, Brett?
BUTLER: Well, I don`t know. I mean I don`t know. Again, I`m not being naive, I`m just really glad that all of us made it out of there. And the people that I disappointed that I respected the most have been the kindest in retrospect and forgiving. You`ll start to like tell someone that you`re sorry and they`ll go stop, I love you, I`m glad you`re ok. And I go please let me finish because I have to do this with (INAUDIBLE) tomorrow.
BEHAR: But you know, what about the fact that even Charlie -- this is true of Charlie and that was true your show, because of the abuse and the acting out and the bad behavior, a lot of people lose a lot of money on these things. I don`t know what to say about that. I don`t want you to feel guilty --
BUTLER: The people who lose the money are the crew, by the way. The crew loses money.
BEHAR: The crew and the other actors.
BUTLER: Well, you know, that`s what I mean. The people who are on the floor. I`m not saying no one else is worth it. But there are calculated risks in this. I`m not defending any of that.
Look, I wish I had all the good things I have without any of the pitfalls. And believe me, you know, next time, I`ll get a chance to do it different.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about the enablers for a second. You know, Tom Arnold said he once warned someone close to Sheen that he had a problem. And the guy replied, we make a lot of money from him, I can`t be part of it. How much harder is it for a celebrity to realize that there`s a problem when there are these enablers around. And second part of the question is what`s the difference to you between an enabler and a parasite or is it the same thing?
BUTLER: No. I think very few people have like that utter disregard for the soul. There`s a lot of people with varying degrees of broken nose switches around you. And some people -- actually as I put to my mother, my disease brings out the worst in other people. You manipulate, you contrive, people think well, it`s a pacifier. I don`t think anyone is -- I don`t find an evil -- there`s not villains in any of this.
There are people who probably wish they`ve been tougher with me. There are people who -- that`s probably in my case, there are people who wish they`re been tougher early on.
BEHAR: All right, to a certain extent, I feel that he`s been enabled by the media. Because you know, people forget that he`s accused of being violent towards women. People forget that part, you know.
BUTLER: I -- yes the -- the bad boy thing, the kind of fun stuff, I didn`t really ever have fun with the bad parts of it. I did --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Do you think it`s because you`re a female that they -- they didn`t let you have a pass at that?
BUTLER: I -- I -- I don`t know. I -- I don`t want to fall on that you know, push anybody on that sword or fall on that. I -- I -- I don`t know. I think it has more to do with being southern and what will they say or something.
BEHAR: Right.
BUTLER: I know -- I know that there are a lot of people fighting about it. And I just -- look, my -- my point is, Charlie, I am one of the only people that knows -- what -- the pony looks like that you`re on and I didn`t call anybody.
But look, I got to get a well call from Richard Lewis. When I went to a rehab, Chris Farley came out and say, can I help you. And I looked at my manager and said, am I that far gone, Chris Farley? That I mean, it seems like, yes, it`s a joke now right? But look who`s here, look who`s left standing.
BEHAR: Yes good for you.
BUTLER: And that`s --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: But you`re doing well and I like it.
And look, one last thing, before I go because I -- you said, I just read somewhere that you said, you lost 100 pounds.
(CROSS TALK)
BUTLER: Yes.
BEHAR: You weren`t that heavy, Brett. I don`t remember you being ever being heavy.
BUTLER: I -- I didn`t get in front of a lot of cameras when I was. I got --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Wow.
BUTLER: I got huge and fat and hated me and -- yes, I`d -- I`d like a real job. Yes.
BEHAR: Well -- well, you sound like you`re back on the right track. And I`m happy for you.
BUTLER: It`s good to see you. Thank you.
BEHAR: Great to see you and say hi to your mother. I heard she watches the show.
BUTLER: She loves you.
BEHAR: That`s nice. Thank you.
Ok, we`ll be back after a short break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next, the star of NBC`s "Harry`s Law," Kathy Bates tells Joy about getting naked in a hot tub with Jack Nicholson.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Oscar winner Kathy Bates has made a career out of playing no- nonsense tough-talking women. Her title role as a disillusioned lawyer on the NBC crime drama "Harry`s Law" is no different.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KATHY BATES, ACTRESS: If that boy, status one, doesn`t get a transplant and dies, his family will have a wrongful death claim against this hospital, which I will bring with all my girth.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you threatening us?
BATES: That`s exactly what I`m doing. You want to roll the dice here? Fine, let`s play.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is the very talented Kathy Bates. Kathy, it`s so great to have you here. Who wrote that line "with all my girth"?
BATES: David E. Kelly wrote it.
BEHAR: David Kelly?
BATES: David E. Kelly wrote that line about all my girth. And I`ve - - I`ve got to write him a note about that.
BEHAR: Hey, listen, skinny boy. What is he a skinny guy or --
(CROSS TALK)
BATES: Well, there`s later on in the scene, and the guy I`m talking who says shouldn`t you be out somewhere with all your girth?
BEHAR: Oh boy.
BATES: To take a second care of --
BEHAR: Boy oh, boy the abuse you have to take --
BATES: I know.
BEHAR: -- in this industry, you know. And in fact, but, do you know what, the truth of the matter is Kathy is that, I don`t know exactly how old you are, I have an idea, you`re over 50 --
(CROSS TALK)
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: -- right? You`re still the star of the show, which is unusual.
BATES: Yes, it is.
BEHAR: You`re carrying the whole show.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: So that`s great.
BATES: Yes and I`m very proud of that, in fact. As my sister said to me, at your age, your size, your gender --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Your age or size --
BATES: -- despite of your gender and look at all your accomplishments.
BEHAR: You work a lot. But you know what that is a testimony to how talented you are.
BATES: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Isn`t it?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: It really is.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: Because I mean, you the part -- they come up with parts for you constantly.
BATES: I`m pretty pleased. I`m -- I`m enjoying Ariel, I love playing her.
BEHAR: What`s your favorite movie role?
BATES: My favorite movie role is Delores Claiborne actually. And that`s one that sort of slipped through the cracks, we did it back in 1994. Taylor Hackford directed it.
BEHAR: Yes. Oh Helen Mirren`s husband.
BATES: And -- yes. Yes. Helen Mirren`s husband and he did such a great job with it and it was -- I love, it`s my favorite role because I got to play a character at when she was young and when she was old. And go back and forth in which --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: You like that?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s nice. You haven`t done that in any other film?
BATES: No. No.
BEHAR: Well, maybe that`s your next role. You`ll have to wear the gray hair in the second part.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: And they`ll bleach you in the first.
BATES: Yes maybe I`ll give that a --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes, that`s one -- one of my favorites is "About Schmidt", where you were actually naked in the movie at the age of 54. I mean, the guts that that took, it was fabulous.
BATES: The cosmopolitans that took.
BEHAR: How many -- how many did you need?
BATES: I think that was a two-Cosmopolitan.
BEHAR: That was a two?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: I wonder how many Cosmopolitans it took -- what`s his name, Jack Nicholson to show his fat belly --
(CROSS TALK)
BATES: I know, I mean, and he`s rear end -- he shows his rear end in that movie.
BEHAR: Right exactly.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: And we were also subject to Harvey Keitel`s tush in "The Piano", remember that?
BATES: Right, right.
BEHAR: But no back. And also (INAUDIBLE) with his tush in the series NYPD --
BATES: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: -- well, remember that?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: So -- so but when you did it, it became like a whole conversation point. Because that you`re a woman, I guess.
BATES: I guess, I don`t know.
BEHAR: But you know, I often think that these actresses today all have to do nude scenes. Every one of them.
BATES: You don`t think that they --
BEHAR: They do. I think they do.
BATES: Stills?
BEHAR: A lot of nudity in all the movies that I watch. A lot of sex and a lot of nudity.
BATES: I mean, it seems that way certainly in the -- in the -- in the -- the song business area. You have to be a stripper while you`re singing your song.
BEHAR: What -- exactly that helps the song sometimes. But no, I mean, I was talking the other day about "Blue Valentine", which is a great film.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: There`s like a lot of sex in that movie. And --
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: -- "The Fighter."
BATES: She was great in that, Michelle Williams.
BEHAR: She was great and so is Ryan.
BATES: Ryan Gosling --
BEHAR: Yes. But like in the days when Bette Davis was a star, she never have to take her clothes off.
BATES: It wasn`t classy.
BEHAR: It wasn`t classy to take your clothes off. The waves would crash and everybody knew you were having sex. You had to use your imagination.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, now, they take it all off. You were married, I found out once.
BEHAR: Yes I was married --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: You were married to Tony Camtezzi (ph). You like Italian guys?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: Why?
BATES: He was Sicilian actually.
BEHAR: Yes.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s Italian.
BATES: I know, it`s more Italian.
BEHAR: He`s even more Italian.
BATES: Yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: So you were married to him for a while.
BATES: We were together for a long time. And we were married for about four years and yes, he was a good guy.
BEHAR: Yes?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: Did you get a divorce?
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: How good could he have been?
BATES: He was a good guy.
BEHAR: He was?
BATES: He was a good guy.
BEHAR: Yes. All right. Whatever. You know -- did you have any children? You don`t have any kids, right?
BATES: No. We don`t have any children.
BEHAR: Did you regret that at all that you didn`t have?
BATES: No, I never, ever wanted to have kids and I knew that from a very early age.
BEHAR: Really?
BATES: Yes and I don`t regret having children.
BEHAR: No, because your career is your child, I guess.
BATES: I was my child.
BEHAR: You were your own child.
BATES: Yes. I`m still trying to bring me up.
BEHAR: Well, you have to always maintain that child-like quality when you`re an actor.
BATES: Right. I remember Mike Nichols (ph) said to me one time because I was getting ready to direct my first thing for TV and I said, "Gee, Mike, have you got any pointers for me now I`m going to be a director." He said, "Oh, good, you get to be the parent now. You don`t have to be the baby."
BEHAR: That`s nice.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We`re going to take a short break and we`ll be back with more with Kathy Bates in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And we`re back with Kathy Bates. You know, I found out, I was looking through the research about you and I found out you were or are an ovarian cancer survivor.
BATES: I am.
BEHAR: Now, you kept the news to yourself for years. I mean no one really knew this.
BATES: No, I was very quiet about it. In retrospect, I probably would have done it differently, but when I was going through it, I don`t know, I just was so focused on getting better, you know. And my doctor told me, I guess, too, I was listening to her advice. She said, don`t tell anybody. Just keep it to yourself.
BEHAR: Really? Why?
BATES: She says -- I guess because it was that thing in Hollywood, you don`t want people to know you`re sick.
BEHAR: Yes, that`s true because then they`ll say, we can`t use here.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: You probably were right to do that.
BATES: I think there`s more of a thing against having ovarian cancer for some reason than there is of other types of cancer like breast cancer. There`s something kind of taboo about ovarian cancer.
BEHAR: Probably because it`s a hard one to cure.
BATES: And what`s involved usually is a hysterectomy and that`s something people don`t like to talk about.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
BATES: That`s what I found when I was going through it. People don`t like to talk about cancer.
BEHAR: No. We never did.
BATES: Yes. And they don`t -- it`s not dinner table conversation. Hi how are you doing? You know. You don`t want to talk about your chemo.
BEHAR: Illnesses, yes. But I think you`re right about the industry that it`s not a good idea, probably. So it`s better that you kept it to yourself.
BATES: Yes. But now, I`ve been doing some work with the Ovarian Cancer National Alliance and trying to get the word out about symptoms and stuff and done a couple of PSAs for them. That`s a tricky thing with ovarian cancer is merely getting the symptoms right.
BEHAR: So they don`t have a test that`s accurate.
BATES: No, they don`t.
BEHAR: That`s the real issue.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, the Pap smear tells you about cervical. The mammogram, the breasts. And this is really like it gives you false positives. That`s not great. So that`s where we need to work, I think.
BATES: Yes.
BEHAR: You were actually billed as BoBo Bates in your first film, 1971`s "Taking Off". And we just so happen to have a clip of that. Let`s watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BATES: And even in the darkest of storms you knew that the sun was still there and even the horses had wings
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Beautiful. Really pretty.
BATES: Thank you. I wrote that song.
BEHAR: You did?
BATES: I did.
BEHAR: Are you a song writer?
BATES: I used to be when I was a kid. I really wanted to do that more than anything else was play the guitar and write songs and sing. Then, I don`t know, I got into the acting.
BEHAR: You got famous. But you can actually sing beautifully.
BATES: Thank you.
BEHAR: Do you have any other hidden talent talents? What else do you do?
BATES: I`m going to have to think about that.
BEHAR: You write songs you sing. Do you play an instrument?
BATES: I used to play the guitar. I don`t know. I write.
BEHAR: You write books?
BATES: Well, I`m working on something now that I can`t really talk about, but I`m working on something and yes, I have -- I paint a little bit.
BEHAR: Boy, you`re a Renaissance woman. Look at you.
BATES: Yes, I`m a Renaissance woman.
BEHAR: Do you live in California?
BATES: I do.
BEHAR: You can do the outdoor painting there. You can write a song on the hills while the coyotes are howling in the back. I mean it`s a perfect setting for a woman of your talents.
And you can be a big star of "Harry`s Law", which airs Monday nights on NBC. We`ll be right back.
BROOKE ANDERSON, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", Miley Cyrus slams her critics, but will joking about her scandals backfire? 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
JOY BEHAR, HOST: As we mentioned earlier, Charlie Sheen has been fired from "Two and a Half Men." In an 11-page letter sent to Sheen`s lawyer, Warner Brothers states, quote, "your client has been engaged in self- destructive conduct and appears to be very ill."
With me now to discuss this and other stories in the news are Joe Levy, editor in chief of "Maxim" magazine, actress Jackie Hoffman star of the "Adams Family" and actor and comedian John Fugelsang.
So guys, this is just hot off the press here that they fired him. I mean, you know, what do you make of the news, Joe?
JOE LEVY, EDITOR IN CHIEF, MAXIM: Charlie Sheen. First off, just to keep it in perspective, I think every time we refer to him. We call him admitted wife abuser and recovering drug addict Charlie Sheen. That way we get all the problems in just when we say it`s him.
BEHAR: But is he admitted wife abuser?
LEVY: He actually is. He pleaded no contest to beating up his wife.
JOHN FUGELSANG, ACTOR/COMEDIAN: They made him teach an acting class to students in Aston, Colorado. Why are young actors forced to pay for his crimes?
BEHAR: I think anybody watching him is forced to pay for his crime.
LEVY: Well, it took Warner Brothers all this time and 11 pages to come to the conclusion that he`s been engaged in self destructive behavior.
BEHAR: Why it did it take so long?
LEVY: Because they were making so much money. This is the highest rated show on television. Let`s be honest. It`s a billion dollar - it`s supposed to a billion dollar business for CBS and Warner Brothers.
BEHAR: What is their responsibility, really? I mean, you can say they`re enablers because they`re making money or they`re parasites because they`re making money, but there they are, working and this guy is on a self- destructive toot. What are they really going to do?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Toot. That was a subtle cocaine reference.
JACKIE HOFFMAN, ACTRESS: If they put him back on, the ratings would increase even more I think. I think then every people who weren`t even watching it would have watched.
LEVY: Jackie`s right. Now it would open up even more criticism. You know, I think the one good thing about this is if they can keep the show going and call it two men.
BEHAR: Toot men.
LEVY: Choking his wife, pulling a knife on his wife, terrorizing cal girls in the plaza. I think that`s a point that the destructive behavior to the women around him, rushed to the hospital a few weeks ago. Not probably his first allegedly drug related maybe overdose.
And the question is, are they enablers? I don`t know. Were the people around Kurt Cobaine enablers? Once the guy dies then, you know, you don`t look so good. It`s not so much like --
BEHAR: How much responsibility? You`re not a family member. You just work with the guy. How much responsibility do you really have?
LEVY: You guys have tricked me into an intervention.
HOFFMAN: It`s time we talked. I have a letter. I`m going to read about how much I love you.
FUGELSANG: Americans are addicted to addicts and even more so Americans are addicted to watching addicts screw up in public and it`s a spectator sport and we know this. And maybe if other channels have had as much as Warners had, maybe Anna Nicole Smith would still be alive.
BEHAR: Is it fascinating how he gave up one addiction and now he`s addicted to being on television.
FUGELSANG: Well, that`s the best thing the guy could do is to stop being a celebrity and go back to being an artist. Take a couple of years, do theater -
BEHAR: He`s become so over the top, out of the deep end, is this always happening?
HOFFMAN: It`s very funny.
FUGELSANG: His father is an actor. His brother is an actor. If he wants to save himself, he really should commit himself to being an actor and stop being a celebrity. Go, disappear, do some theater for a couple of years and save yourself.
BEHAR: Lots of luck.
LEVY: He is hilarious and I think we`re out here to prove you can be funny without being addicted to crack and then recovering from --
HOFFMAN: I certainly hope so.
BEHAR: Isn`t there a child on that show?
LEVY: Yes.
BEHAR: I have a little stake in that one and so do you guys. OK, let`s talk about Miley Cyrus. OK, because she hosted "Saturday Night Live" the other night and impersonated another Disney star, Lindsay Lohan. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lindsay, you winning?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lay it on me.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Things are great. My new movie "Herby" opened 68 months ago and the Los Angeles courthouse just gave me my own parking spot. Winning. Duh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Winning.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What do you think of that? How`d she do?
LEVY: I mean, it`s kind of a funny bit. She did OK. I mean, she didn`t do great on the show, but she was game. She played along.
BEHAR: She turned herself in a little bit.
LEVY: She made fun of herself in another skit where she plays Justin Bieber.
BEHAR: She addressed a Salvia scandal twice. Once in here monologue and once in a skit where she played Bieber.
HOFFMAN: Is this a new thing?
FUGELSANG: It`s legal, but in fairness. That`s the only way I can sit through Hannah Montana. The thing about Miley Cyrus is and I said this back in the early `90s, Billy Ray Cyrus, achy breaky heart, we had to take the man out. The liberals said, no, no, he`s contained and now look, low back. Miley Cyrus on SNL --
BEHAR: Let me just say --
FUGELSANG: She will host an infomercial on cosmetics someday.
BEHAR: Lindsay Lohan is supposedly upset about that sketch and felt she e- mailed Lauren Michaels. So a friend of hers and she was close to Lauren and she was very upset and felt betrayed.
LEVY: In AA, we call that displacement.
HOFFMAN: And denial.
BEHAR: Who`s she really mad at?
FUGELSANG: She`s mad at something else for poking fun.
HOFFMAN: Yes, that`s what I`m saying.
FUGELSANG: That`s not like an addict.
BEHAR: Kind of, but I mean, that doesn`t mean she can`t be upset if someone makes fun of her.
FUGELSANG: Well, of course. She has every right to be and maybe she will come back and lip synch another musical performance on the show as payback. But I mean, I can only hope in the case of Lindsay and Charlie, this kind of public scoring can hopefully be the beginning of the best parts of their lives.
HOFFMAN: Right, steal another necklace.
BEHAR: That whole story about Lindsay stealing the necklace is up in the air because the store that allegedly she stole the necklace from. They have taken the video tape and chopped it up and sold it, so there`s no evidence of her taking it in the store, right?
LEVY: It`s like an Edgar Allen Poe movie - story, but even more ironic. They chopped up the video and they package this so people can snort it?
BEHAR: I don`t know. What is the point of chopping it up? They say they got $35,000 for it. You`re a bunch of losers in that jewelry store also just FYI.
LEVY: Good to know.
HOFFMAN: Everybody wants to make a buck.
BEHAR: OK, now, Fox News and Mike Huckabee, who`s a possible presidential candidate. His news host, right? He is condemning Natalie Portman, the Oscar winner this year because she`s pregnant and she`s unmarried.
Because he says that it`s, it glamorizes out of wedlock pregnancy. Now, do you think that Bristol Palin glamorized out of wedlock pregnancy in Alaska?
LEVY: I think Bristol Palin glamorizes everything she touches. The woman is pure glamour. She`s a modern Audrey Hepburn. She was a teen pregnant. Natalie Portman, at least the father seems to be gainfully employed. He works as a ballet dancer as opposed to Levi. There`s no comparison.
BEHAR: His point is that there are many, many out of wedlock people. They have children and they can`t afford to keep them and the Republicans are trying to take the safety net away. So they`re on the doll, on the other, he`s saying we`re going to take it from you.
FUGELSANG: This is the same as the controversy they`re laying on us now with too many black women having abortions. The same people have said black women have too many babies and now they`re saying they`re having too many abortions.
I understand why he didn`t go after Bristol Palin because let`s face it Mike Huckabee is not afraid of Natalie Portman`s mom. But that`s what it`s all about. I admire Bristol Palin or anybody who`s an unwed teen mom who lectures about abstinence.
BEHAR: I know exactly.
HOFFMAN: Yes, I think it`s every little girls dream to be a self mutilating anorexic gay ballet dancer with a child out of wedlock.
BEHAR: That is what that is about.
HOFFMAN: She`s setting a good example.
FUGALSANG: Not my Friday nights.
LEVY: Mike Huckabee -- you feel special.
FUGALSANG: Huckabee`s father of the year, we all know with his quality son. His dog -- tortured and hung a stray dog. He`s lecturing this, but then he back track because he got - he`s doing this - he hates Mitt Romney. It`s all about how much he hates Mitt Romney, right?
BEHAR: How?
FUGALSANG: These guys can`t stand each other. He`s the biggest threat for Mitt Romney right now for 2012. That`s what this is all about. When this didn`t test well on the Medved Show, he went back and apologized and said Natalie certainly deserved her Oscar. Is there anything funnier than imagining Mick Huckabee watching "Black Swan." It`s not going to happen.
BEHAR: Right, but you know, here`s the thing about Huckabee. He doesn`t believe in evolution. He`s very backward in a lot of ways of thinking. Even though he`s a very nice guy --
FUGELSANG: He`s another big Christian who loves the death penalty.
BEHAR: You can`t elect a president who doesn`t believe in evolution.
FUGELSANG: We did it twice. We did it in 2000 and 2004.
BEHAR: They never said that?
FUGELSANG: He did say it.
BEHAR: Who, George Bush?
FUGELSANG: Yes, he did.
BEHAR: He said that? He`s dumber than I thought.
FUGELSANG: Yes.
BEHAR: That is scary.
HOFFMAN: I never heard that.
FUGELSANG: There`s nothing more spiritually insignificant than believing in Genesis as literal fact. It`s got nothing to do what Jesus talked about. It`s everything to do with satisfying your base.
BEHAR: No reporter ever went against George Bush and said, what about Noah`s ark for those animals really on the boat with Noah`s ark. Come on.
FUGELSANG: Anderson Cooper went after Mike Huckabee in the 2008 campaign debates for being a Christian who supports the death penalty. Huckabee dodge it with a clever little joke. He`s great on camera. Mike Huckabee began his career as a TV evangelist. So he`s very good in lying to people and he plays base. He`s much more permeable candidate than liberals take him for.
BEHAR: But shouldn`t he be praising Portman keeping the baby?
FUGELSANG: He`s doing that now.
BEHAR: Because the abortion thing hit him in the face.
HOFFMAN: They`re much poorer examples for young women out there like Lindsay Lohan. I mean, Natalie Portman seems to be having it together. God love her for saying she`s proud to be Jewish and hates John Galliano.
BEHAR: He`s in rehab for anti-Semitism. Give me a break.
Here in New York, you can catch Jackie Hoffman and what is it called? Jackie 5.0 at Joe`s Pub March 14th and 21st and again, on April 4th. John will be headlining on "Laughing Liberally" on Broadway in the Midtown Theather on April and May. We`ll be back in a minute.
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BEHAR: In his new book, "Man Down" Dan Abrams says that women are superior to men in almost every way including gambling, tolerating pain, avoiding getting him by lightning and driving.
Dan Abrams joins me now along with biological anthropologist, Helen Fisher who is of course a superior guest. Now, this book really I said to you when you did "The View," you`re looking to get a little action by writing this book.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have to use a different phrase.
BEHAR: It`s a very, very complimentary book to women, Dan.
DAN ABRAMS, AUTHOR, "MAN DOWN": Yes, sure. I mean, look, I didn`t expect to find the results that I did. I was basically looking at it because I had seen something that said, women are better than men in these areas.
I said, come on. I wondered, what is the research? Is just anecdotal? Because that was I assumed it was and look, there were a few studies that I`d read that turned out to be anecdotal, but as I dug in, there was study after study after study.
BEHAR: It`s interesting.
ABRAMS: And research. This is not just me saying I think women are better than men. This is research that shows that women are better than men in so many areas in the most frivolous to the most serious.
BEHAR: OK, then let`s start talking about a few of the areas. For example, leadership.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: You say women are better leaders and better world leaders. So why are men the leaders in the world then? Maybe Helen could answer that, too.
HELEN FISHER, BIOLOGICAL ANTHROPOLOGIST: First of all, there`s a lot of ways that men have superior talents.
BEHAR: Like?
FISHER: They`re much better in all kinds of special relations. They`re more direct. They`re more decisive. They`re more tough minds. They`re much better at things like engineering, math or mechanics or computers. How many times have you seen a woman walk in to fix the computer?
ABRAMS: Computer, I`m not sure if that`s true.
FISHER: No, but it depends on what you`re studying. I mean, if it`s a spatial thing.
BEHAR: They`re better at taking out the garbage.
ABRAMS: Exactly.
BEHAR: But at 6 percent of people actually think that women make better leaders, you say.
ABRAMS: Right, basically they did a study and asked people, of these eight characteristics that we consider to be the most important for leaders, honesty, integrity, creativity, ambition. The men came out ahead in only one, which was decisiveness. The women came out ahead or tied in all the rest of them.
FISHER: They do this in business, too. They study leaders. Not what gets you to the top, but what keeps you at the top. Nine out of the ten characteristics were those that women actually -- but the things that men are good at, we do need them.
ABRAMS: No one`s suggesting we don`t need them.
FISHER: We do need men.
ABRAMS: But when it comes again to world leaders as you point out, although people said all these characteristics, which we think of as more female, tend to be characteristics of a world leader. They`re still this bias --
BEHAR: But decisiveness is an important one.
FISHER: Men are better at risk taking.
BEHAR: If you watch "Jeopardy," the men always risk more money in the pile of "Jeopardy" rank. I`ve noticed that.
FISHER: They do it in the stock market, too. They`re much more likely -- but if they win, they win big.
BEHAR: But they say that women are better gamblers.
ABRAMS: Women are better gamblers. They`re better -
FISHER: In what way are they better gamblers?
ABRAMS: In terms of the studies that have been done, which basically --
FISHER: That are just decided --
ABRAMS: How much they bet and how much they then win or lose.
FISHER: Is it because they`re more cautious or because they remember the - -
ABRAMS: It`s because they`re more careful and more thoughtful and more deliberative about the bets they`re making.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about pain. You say that women are better at enduring pain. Right now, I`m having gas pains and you don`t hear a peep out of me.
ABRAMS: That`s right. Women in the military, women in the military complain -- "New York Times" reported on this last year, that women are complaining less who are veterans than male veterans about pain and women suffer more pain throughout their lives.
FISHER: What was the evolutionary purpose of women being able to tolerate more pain?
BEHAR: Babies.
ABRAMS: Waxing. For my "Good Morning America" piece, I wouldn`t have my leg wax.
BEHAR: That`s nothing. Try a bikini wax and then we`ll talk.
ABRAMS: I said, this wasn`t so bad, they said, you want real pain, try underarm and bikini.
BEHAR: Or try adult circumcision.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: I burnt myself yesterday in my apartment. Saturday, I put my fingers on my curling iron, 450 degrees and I screamed bloody murder. So I don`t think that women endure pain than anybody else.
ABRAMS: That`s human.
BEHAR: I mean, come on. They say that men complain more about pain. Is that because they want our sympathy?
ABRAMS: Yes, and the truth is that women tend to be more sympathetic to a man in pain than vice versa. But again, the studies are showing that women - look, women have to endure more pain throughout their lives.
FISHER: Is this in other cultures, too? I mean, in Japan and China? You`ve got to do the cross culture. There are some real differences.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: All right, let`s talk about the fact that women are better at remembering.
FISHER: I know the biology of that. It`s a particular factor in the brain called the hippocampus. There`s a lot more cells that receive estrogen. Women really are better -- they`re better built architecturally to remember.
And I think it comes from millions of years having to remember, you know, what did he promise last Christmas? What did you say you`d do next summer?
You know, women have to remember because they need to size you up to see whether you`re going to be a good husband and a good father and they do it by memory.
ABRAMS: And again, it is something you can easily test. They started with just words, women remembering more words.
BEHAR: So do women have less all timers --
ABRAMS: You know, I don`t know the answer to that.
FISHER: And I wonder if the - if they ask, you know, whether you remembered mathematical formulas, whether men might be much better at it -
BEHAR: Well, men are better at math, aren`t they?
FISHER: Much better. Math, engineering, computers -
ABRAMS: You know, what they`re better at? Women are better drivers and men park better than women.
BEHAR: We want to get - have sex on the back. Hang tight. We`ll have more on this when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dan Abrams and Helen Fisher. We`re talking about the natural superiority of women. You`re saying women are better at getting ready faster. That is a stereotype of women that the guy is always waiting for the woman to come out and be dressed.
ABRAMS: Right, this is - of all the studies in the book, all right, a lot of them were based on really rigorous science. This one was a survey. They asked 2,000 people in England called Super Drug, surveyed 2,000 people, men and women, and they asked them how long -- I want you to go through your routine to get ready to go out, I want to estimate exactly how long it takes and they went through men took 83 minutes, women took 79.
FISHER: And I think that says something interesting about men, that they are beginning to need to --
BEHAR: Primp on themselves.
FISHER: Absolutely and it`s because women are more economically powerful and men not only have to get the wife, they have to keep the wife.
BEHAR: That`s true. Men are not necessarily attracted to powerful, rich women. They`re not, right?
ABRAMS: There are a lot of gold digging guys out there. Come on. Don`t sell them short.
BEHAR: OK. This other thing is you say they`re better at appreciating a joke.
ABRAMS: Right.
BEHAR: When I grew up, they said the women had a good sense of humor if they laughed at your joke. That was basically what constituted a good sense of humor. They never thought as a funny woman as having a good sense of humor.
ABRAMS: This is appreciating a joke better. They literally check the brain neurons and women appreciate the funny joke more. What I found striking in this was I was looking - researching this. I was looking for proof. There was an article that blaired there is now proof that men are funnier than women.
I thought what`s the proof? A guy, researcher, went around on a unicycle and he wanted to see who would make fun of them. The guys made fun of him more than the women. The guy I`m sure looked ridiculous and more guys laugh at him.
BEHAR: So the women are more sensitive.
FISHER: But the females are connected. You`re going to see a lot more action in the female brain in response to a joke probably. It doesn`t mean that she actually feels more responsive. It`s just manse that more of the brain is involved in that reaction.
BEHAR: Women, like the three stooges, I`ve hardly ever met a woman who think the three stooges are funny.
ABRAMS: Do you think a guy under the age of 55 find them funny?
BEHAR: Well, they`re doing about them. That particular time of humor, they think it`s hilarious, a lot of guys and we don`t think that`s funny.
FISHER: Well, you know, we`re word people. I always divide humor into two types, word humor and sight gags, the Three Stooges are totally sight gags. Chimpanzees are like that.
BEHAR: Sorry about that. We have to go. Women are less likely to be hit by lightning. Is that because men don`t know when to come in?
ABRAMS: Yes, men are more wreckless. They go on an extra round of golf, they stay on the roof for another 10 minutes when they have to fix the antenna and know there`s a storm coming and 82 percent of lightning strikes occurred in men.
FISHER: That very recklessness can save an entire family and entire community. We know the biology --
BEHAR: Because they`ll jump into the fire.
FISHER: Absolutely.
BEHAR: So we love you boys out there and want you to stay. Good night, everybody.
BROOKE ANDERSON: Hi there, I`m Brooke Anderson. This is "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" news break. Here`s what`s coming up on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT" at the top of the hour. It`s the bizarre Charlie Sheen web cast.
Our showbiz flashpoint, is Charlie really winning? And Sarah Palin happy birthday smackdown. Palin`s explosive new attack on Kathy for going after her kids. That`s the "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT"`s news break. TV`s most provocative entertainment news show starts at the top of the hour right here on HLN.
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