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Joy Behar Page
Chris Brown Meltdown; Charlie Back to CBS?
Aired March 22, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Actress Elizabeth Berkley joins me. She has written a new book to help teens with their self-esteem. You know, it`s funny. I can relate to that because although I`m in a lot healthier position right now after many, many years of therapy, I had a difficult childhood in certain ways. Because I used to get picked on by kids in my neighborhood; they teased me about my hair which was, you know, frizzy. And I used to wear Bermuda shorts sometimes and, you know, it`s like --
What`s so funny, you little (EXPLETIVE DELETED). See, I`m much better now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, CBS reportedly offers Charlie Sheen a spot to return to "Two-and-a-Half Men". So is the network desperate and are they willing to bear responsibility if Sheen flips out yet again?
Speaking of flipping out, Chris Brown throws a fit after a sit down with "Good Morning America". Brown allegedly trashed his dressing room and shattered a window before storming out of the ABC studio shirtless.
Plus, one of film`s most legendary actresses, and one of Joy`s all- time favorites, French star Catherine Deneuve is here.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: The singer Chris Brown freaked out today allegedly screaming, smashing a window and running from the ABC building shirtless. Why? Because of this interview on "Good Morning America". Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROBIN ROBERTS, ABC HOST, "GOOD MORNING AMERICA": Have you all seen each other, been around each other?
CHRIS BROWN, SINGER: I mean, not really. I mean it`s not really a big deal to me now as far as that situation. I think I`m past that in my life. I think today is the album day. So that`s what I`m focused on. So everybody go get that album.
ROBERTS: Even the judge though afterwards said that you had served your time as far as the community service and that and moving on. But have you been able to? How you have been able to --
BROWN: I`m just focusing on this album, you know? I think this album is what I want people to hear and I want people to really get into. So definitely this album is what I want them to talk about and not this stuff that happened two years ago.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The album, he was there to talk about is called FAME, which he may be promoting from j-a-i-l.
With me to talk about what happened are Rob Shuter, AOL`s PopEater columnist; and Marvet Britto, publicist and president of the Britto Agency; along with Lisa Bloom, attorney and founding partner of thebloomfirm.com. Welcome to the show, you guys.
Ok. Let`s start with Rob because he seemed a little thin-skinned, don`t you think. What -- tell us what happened?
ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, AOL`S POPEATER: He was on "Good Morning America" this morning to promote the album that comes out today. He was going to perform. He had to do a little interview before he performed.
These questions were pre-approved. So he knew they were going to ask a question about Rihanna. Obviously, that`s the big drama in his life. We want to know about that.
Robin asked a couple of questions and then after the questions, he performed. After his performance, he went back to the dressing room. That`s when he threw a chair, allegedly, at a window, smashed the glass and then ran out of the studio without his shirt on.
BEHAR: Ok. So Marvet, now he knew there would be Rihanna questions, right?
MARVET BRITTO, PRESIDENT, BRITTO AGENCY: I`m sure he did. I mean it`s very much a part of his DNA. It`s hard to have an episode as explosive as that and as brutal as the beating apparently or allegedly was -- or apparently was and not expect a journalist of Robin Roberts` pedigree to ask that question.
BEHAR: So do you think this was a -- a publicity stunt, the hissy fit?
BRITTO: No, I think that he`s still bitter, sadly, and he really hasn`t understood you to how deal with the media. He hasn`t had a platform such as this with the new album coming out. I think he really just wants to move past it.
Unfortunately, until he recaptures his position as a top-selling artist, it`s going to very much be in the forefront of the questions that he`s asked while he promotes this record.
And it`s called FAME; it is called "Forgiving All My Enemies". And that`s not what you want you call an album if you want people to forget you had a very difficult period in your life.
BEHAR: But it sounds like he`s not forgiving too easily.
BRITTO: Not at all.
BEHAR: Maybe it should be FAME, not.
Listen, Lisa, let me ask you something. What do you think about this? You`re a feminist, aren`t you, Lisa?
LISA BLOOM, THEBLOOMFIRM.COM: Absolutely. Listen, when he says it`s not a big deal, I`ve moved on just, buy my album, it shows me he doesn`t get it at all. You know, all he had to say was I did a terrible thing. I pleaded guilty. I`m doing my community service. Serving my probation. I`m sorry and I said that. And now let`s move on and talk about my music.
And I think that would be fine. But for him to have this outburst shows he does not have his anger under control. He still has a propensity for violence. And I think he is looking at some serious consequences with the probation judge because he apparently has violated the law once again.
BEHAR: Right. If, in fact, did he throw the chair through the window.
SHUTER: Right. They did call the police though. GMA did call the police --
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: The police did arrive at that studio and there are photographs of that window smashed.
BEHAR: Marvet, do you think he would have reacted differently if Robin were a man?
BRITTO: I don`t know that -- I think that he`s just bitter. I think that he still hasn`t resolved the fact that this is very much a part of who he is.
BEHAR: But here he is talking to an African-American woman and he supposedly allegedly hit an African-American woman. Do you think that that just triggered him off?
Let`s say it was George Stephanopoulos interviewing him, would it have been different?
BRITTO: I don`t know that it would have been different. I don`t know that the respect would have been any different. I think he just really hasn`t resolved.
He said in other interviews that why can`t I move past this? I think he really needs to understand and really his PR team and perhaps management label really need to step in. Because taking ownership is really the first step in redeeming yourself.
BEHAR: He`s not up to that, I guess.
BRITTO: It`s not going to go away. And until he really resolves it, it`s going to continue to be a problem.
BEHAR: You know, Lisa, you`re talking about probation and going back to jail and everything. But what if nobody actually saw him throw the chair through the window? Can he still be -- go to jail?
BLOOM: Who do you think threw the chair through the window, Joy? A PA at "Good Morning America"? I mean, come on.
BEHAR: I`m not saying my opinion of it. What I`m saying is that let`s say he did but maybe one of his guys is covering for him and saying he didn`t do it. If no one saw the tree in the forest fall, did it fall?
BLOOM: There are a couple of different things. Look, you don`t have to have a witness to prove a crime. You can prove it circumstantially. He was angry. He was ranting and raving. The chair went through the window.
Maybe later on he talked about it to some people and confessed. If somebody else is going to come forward and take the blame for it, you know, that`s a different story. I haven`t heard that yet. But this is criminal vandalism, criminal mischief, potentially --
BEHAR: He could have hurt somebody.
BLOOM: -- the people below. 43rd Street is a very heavily traveled area. That chair could have hit somebody and hurt somebody. This is just out of control behavior.
BEHAR: Right. Now after this incident, he tweeted this: "I`m so over people bringing this past (EXPLETIVE DELETED) up. Yet we praise Charlie Sheen and other celebrities for their bull (EXPLETIVE DELETED)" which they`re bleeping out on the thing.
What does he mean by that, Rob?
SHUTER: I don`t think -- well, I think once he has everything wrong. I don`t think they are giving Charlie Sheen any excuses. Charlie Sheen is in a lot of trouble, too. And I think that equating himself with Charlie Sheen just shows you how confused this young lad is.
BEHAR: You think so Marvet?
BRITTO: Yes. Charlie Sheen isn`t abusing women, first of all.
BEHAR: What do you mean?
BLOOM: Wait, what are you talking about?
BRITTO: He`s not hitting women physically.
BEHAR: Jump in there Lisa.
BLOOM: No. That`s just not true. I mean Charlie Sheen has twice pleaded guilty to domestic violence incidents and he has been accused many more times than that.
And I think Chris Brown does make this point that Charlie Sheen has gotten a pass from the mainstream media from that. People very rarely ask him about it. He very rarely has to even talk about it. Two criminal convictions; we don`t have to say "allegedly". Charlie Sheen has e abused women just like Chris Brown has. He has a conviction for it.
BRITTO: I think the difference is Rihanna`s was so visibly all over the place. We haven`t seen Charlie Sheen`s transgressions in the same way that we saw Rihanna`s battered face. It`s a difference.
And he`s not Charlie Sheen. So at the end of the day, you have to not put yourself in someone else`s category. Again this is about Chris Brown. This is about Chris Brown taking ownership for what he did and not tweeting about anyone else.
He should have been remorseful in that tweet and apologized and really said, you know, I`d like to move past this. Can the public forgive me? I`m growing. I`m maturing.
But he`s not doing that. I think that is the big issue.
SHUTER: He has deleted that tweet. So somebody has told him that that might not have been the smartest thing to do. That tweet has disappeared.
BEHAR: Oh, it has?
SHUTER: Yes, he has deleted.
BEHAR: Really? Do we have a photo that you want to show from TMZ? We have a picture. Let`s see it. There is the picture unfortunately of that poor girl. This is now -- how long ago did that happen -- a couple of years ago?
BRITTO: The Grammys not this year -- last year.
BEHAR: Two years.
BRITTO: Again, whatever Charlie Sheen does, we`re not seeing. That but we continue to see Rihanna`s face over and over again. It`s a constant reminder of what he did.
BEHAR: Is he suggesting racism in any way here, do you think?
BRITTO: Probably. Probably.
BEHAR: You think so.
BRITTO: I think he probably is because he`s saying look at Charlie Sheen, he`s being celebrated. But Charlie Sheen is also making fun and light of what he`s doing by saying he`s winning and it`s very different from Chris Brown running away from it.
Charlie Sheen is embracing his bad behavior and he`s really creating a movement. Chris Brown hasn`t done. He`s not collecting fans along the way.
SHUTER: Robin was the person -- the only journalist he sat down with ever and spoke to about what happened with Rihanna was Robin Roberts. So it was going back to that lady who originally interviewed him. I don`t know if that made it any worse or any better.
BEHAR: He didn`t want to talk about it. Although, you never know.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: All right. We have to go. Thanks very much, everybody.
Rob, sit tight here, darling. You`re going to stay. We`re going to talk about the next bad boy, Charlie Sheen`s potential return to CBS.
Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Chris Brown is not the only bad boy making news. Charlie Sheen, our favorite, made a surprise appearance on ABC`s "Jimmy Kimmel Live" last night and he dropped what appeared to be a little hint about his next move. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: I brought you a gift. I brought you a gift. Yes.
JIMMY KIMMEL, ABC HOST, "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE": What did you bring?
CHARLIE SHEEN, ACTOR: It`s a mug.
KIMMEL: All right. And --
SHEEN: It`s got a fox on it.
KIMMEL: It`s got a fox -- why a fox?
SHEEN: Yes.
KIMMEL: Are you moving away from the tiger?
SHEEN: Why don`t you figure it out my man?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Could this be a little bargaining chip? New reports say that CBS wants Sheen back on his hit show "Two and a Half Men". But after Sheen`s many nasty comments about his producers and his cast mates, would the show still work? And if he goes back to CBS, will it affect his live tour? Because I`d hate to miss all those concerts I bought tickets for.
I`m back with Rob Shuter, AOL`s PopEater columnist and joining us is the lovely and talented Allen Thicke, producer and actor and perhaps best known for playing Jason Seaver (ph) on the long running -- running sitcom "Growing Pains." Allen, it`s always nice to see you again. How are you?
ALLEN THICKE, ACTOR/PRODUCER: Thank you. Thank you, Joy. I`m fine. I think it`s so exciting that the entire country is up in arms over a TV show when we really should be worrying about the more serious things like how are Snooki and Jay-Woww are going to make it out in Italy?
BEHAR: I know. Well, these are the pressing issues of the -- of the day.
Now what do you think about this fox mug thing, Allen? Is he trying to play CBS and get less -- it`s like a little bit of a bargaining chip like when your contract is up with ABC, you`re seen at the four seasons having lunch with somebody from NBC. That type of deal.
THICKE: Exactly. Exactly. You know what? I think what`s really important here is -- we -- we -- we should be concerning ourselves that nobody gets hurt and that means the crew of Charlie`s show, that his children, Charlie himself. In the meantime, he`s -- he`s playing us. And we don`t know how much of it is genius and how much of it is --
BEHAR: Yes.
THICKE: -- truly a troubled soul and we`ll -- we`ll see how that plays out.
But in the meantime, very clever negotiations. You know, hit shows, as you know, are very hard to come by. And my favorite rumor was that Les Moonves was going to become Charlie`s guardian, protector, mentor for a while. I -- can`t you see Charlie moving in with Les and Julie Chen?
BEHAR: Oh what a beautiful picture.
THICKE: The Big Brother will be watching.
Big Brother will be watching and he`ll be doing -- Les will be doing a bed check every night and drug testing tiger`s blood every morning. There is a reality show.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes you know and then, and how about throw Chuck Lorre into that bedroom. You think they could have to bury the machete -- I mean the hatchet? I don`t think so.
THICKE: Yes.
BEHAR: But -- but wait a minute, let me ask Rob a question. Rumor is that as he`s saying, that Les Moonves might take him back. What do you know?
ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, AOL`S POPEATER: Yes, Les has been at his house a couple of times. We know that Les has been to Charlie`s house by himself. He`s turned up. He`s rang the doorbell. He`s been in there for a couple hours. So we know that as a fact.
We also know that in show business, money often makes very strange bedfellows, it makes very strange friends. This show earned so much money for CBS --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: -- that they do want to have it back in some form. And if they can`t find a replacement, then maybe they`ll have to take Charlie.
BEHAR: Ok but we talked a little bit about getting along with your co-stars and with the EP.
Let`s -- let`s watch what -- what he said. Let`s listen to what Sheen said about Chuck Lorre on Ustream. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SHEEN: Chuck-e-cheese-ball. Where are you hiding, silly clown? Behind your narcissism? Your greed? Your hatred of yourself? Or women. I see you, you little worm.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok, Chuck-e cheese ball. That`s really low, don`t you think. All right, Allen, do you think they can ever do it? Really? What do you think?
THICKE: Well, you know, I think we`re a country that loves reconciliation. Tom Brady is suing the NFL right now while they go through this lockout. They`re all going to end up friends. Larry King married the same woman twice, for crying out loud.
I think Charlie -- everything -- everything he`s doing is very -- this is -- he is the greatest performance artist of our time. Charlie Sheen is the Lady Gaga of sitcoms. This is the show where they`re going to meet one day and it`s going to be part of warlock mix and part baloney.
BEHAR: Hilarious.
THICKE: But -- but -- he -- he -- it`s all a negotiation. And we just -- we -- we hope there is light at the end of that crazy tunnel of his.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: What about -- what about --
THICKE: But you know, he -- we know that he`s not really making sense.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well, what about calling the --
THICKE: It is very Gary Busey.
BEHAR: Right.
THICKE: Oh yes, yes, yes. Look --
BEHAR: What about calling John Cryer a troll? That was nasty.
THICKE: I don`t mean that -- it`s not a --
BEHAR: Go ahead, I`m sorry about that.
SHUTER: It`s not a good --
THICKE: I don`t mean to sound a troll but -- but -- yes, that -- that could hurt a person`s feelings until he goes to try to cash that next check and the -- and the lady at the window says you don`t have an account here anymore.
BEHAR: Yes.
THICKE: You know, it`s not that any of this really makes sense. Suddenly Gary Busey looks like Stephen Hawking. You know, it`s going -- it will all play out.
The -- the -- the toughest thing I think in cases like this is for egos this size to kind of get over themselves for the sake of the children. And -- and -- and in this case, the children are, as I said, the crew, Charlie`s children and -- and -- and the show.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: Well let`s get -- listen -- listen, Allen, they can replace him. He`s not Marlon Brando, ok? Let`s not get carried away. They can put somebody else in there.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Remember when they replaced -- who did -- Dick Sergeant replaced Dick York on "Bewitched".
SHUTER: Right.
BEHAR: It`s not the way that poor Elizabeth Montgomery is married to a new guy. Nobody even stopped watching.
SHUTER: Right.
BEHAR: They didn`t drop a stitch there. So why can`t they replace him?
SHUTER: They can replace him.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: But I think they would rather just keep this pie whole at the moment. They`re fearful of change in TV. This show works. They think the public will forgive him.
BEHAR: Yes.
SHUTER: I spoke to Mark Cuban this morning. He`s my boss from HDNET. He was on Jimmy`s show last night with Charlie and he told me do not underestimate Charlie Sheen. So there is something here that`s going on. I think it`s a negotiating chip.
BEHAR: Well, Allen, who would you replace him with though, if you could?
THICKE: Who would I replace him with?
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
THICKE: I would go on it -- I would go in another direction altogether. I know that they`re talking about Rob Lowe and Stamos. I -- I would take somebody who would bring some conflict as a character like a Jeremy Piven. I think going another direction. Imagine Ari Gold --
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: He`s working.
THICKE: -- in a mid life crisis, he`s lost his -- but I`m saying just to think outside the box for a second and suddenly he comes in and make -- he still -- he uses his power and he`s smarts to get chicks and make money.
I think going in another direction altogether as opposed to the young studly handsome look would -- would be the way to go. And you just need a character to be a foil to those other guys.
SHUTER: Another name that`s come up is Jenny McCarthy. They`re actually talking about maybe putting a woman in there.
(CROSS TALK)
BEHAR: A woman?
SHUTER: So it`s a totally new direction.
BEHAR: I don`t know if that will work.
SHUTER: She`s -- she`s already on the show every often as Charlie`s girlfriend. So they`re saying now, she could come as a fulltime character --
BEHAR: I -- oh what`s -- she should -- but she should stay there. But then they have to bring another guy in and I think to replace him. Don`t you?
SHUTER: I don`t know. Casts change and shows go on.
BEHAR: How about Woody Allen? He`s available.
THICKE: Well, you know -- and -- and maybe it would disappear. But they`ve already got a lot of shows for syndication. And remember, life itself ends in cancellation.
BEHAR: That is so -- that is brilliant. Where did you hear that from, Nietzsche?
All right. Thank you guys. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Elizabeth Berkley is perhaps best known for playing headstrong, straight-A student, Jessie Spano (ph) on the very popular sitcom "Saved by the Bell". Look at this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, you`re so strong. Hold me tighter.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So that`s what this is all about? You`re jealous. Come on. I was just helping a teammate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, yes? When was the last time you held Rodriguez like that?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why I would want a girl like Christy when I can have a nut cake like you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Don`t try flattering me, it won`t get you anywhere.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Works for me every time. Now she`s all grown up and is offering advice to the next generation of girls with a new teen book "Ask Elizabeth". with me now is the lovely Miss Elizabeth Berkley.
By the way, that hair is pre-keratin days. The Brazilian blow out.
ELIZABETH BERKLEY, AUTHOR, "ASK ELIZABETH": That has its own personality. And that basically I will tell you a girly secret: that took about a can of shaper hair spray, per show. I would flip it over.
BEHAR: So your natural hair is --
BERKLEY: It`s curly. But I`m saying to get the voluminous, you know, poof that was my trade mark.
BEHAR: I love it.
BERKLEY: Yes.
BEHAR: It was cute actually. It was very cute.
BERKLEY: Thank you. Thank you. And the clothing is fabulous.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
BERKLEY: I really miss that.
BEHAR: 89 to 93; you look back and you say what was I thinking?
BERKLEY: Oh, my gosh. And they put me in like cavalry, poufy pants. It was awful. Yes.
BEHAR: Now, in the show, was there any hanky-panky behind the scenes when that show was going on?
BERKLEY: Everyone likes to know this.
BEHAR: Everyone wants to know.
BERKLEY: I will tell you, we, you know, it`s interesting because unlike a lot of other shows where there are teens, we really were 15 to -- you know, we worked together from the age of 15 to let`s say 19. So we were going through our adolescence together.
Of course we loved flirting with one another. It was also like brothers and sisters, too. So our parents were there. We were minors. It`s not like we were 25 playing 15. It was very innocent.
BEHAR: You really were. It`s not like "Grease" where they look like they`re in college and they`re supposed to be 15, but they look like they`re 35.
BERKLEY: Right. Right. We really -- I mean the funniest thing when we shot the show, like, you know, I was definitely the tallest which was an awkward feeling at that time. The boys kind of came up to me. But there was one summer that we had a break. We had a hiatus. Then we came back and suddenly the boys` voices were deeper. They were -- suddenly they had shot up. And it was real. And they just put it in the script.
BEHAR: Did you ever think that screech would be the one to do a sex tape?
BERKLEY: I can`t say that I ever had that thought. And kind of want to delete it from my brain.
BEHAR: Yes.
You know, the other thing did you was "Showgirls". The infamous "Showgirls". Let`s look at that.
BERKLEY: You want to look at that?
BEHAR: I want to see that, yes.
BERKLEY: Ok. Why not?
BEHAR: I never saw it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go! Higher! Not that high!
One, two, three, four!
Work it!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know, you could break a hip doing that.
BERKLEY: You could, if you`re not warmed up, you could. That is a fascinating scene, by the way. And I`m transfixed myself.
BEHAR: Did that project, did that hurt your career in any way or help it?
BERKLEY: You know, I will tell you it was a challenging moment when it first came out. What is fascinating to me now though is the cult status that it has. It`s wildly one of MGM`s top grossing films of all time on video which is surreal to me. So it has a cult following now which is fun.
BEHAR: It is almost quaint. I mean after Paris Hilton and her sex tape and the Kardashians with their sex tape. This is like child`s play.
BERKLEY: A dancer in Vegas. So it was challenging. And I had to kind of overcome some things. But I found my power after that.
BEHAR: When we come back, I definitely want to talk about your book about how you talk to teens about body image and all the things that these poor kids are going through, these girls.
Ok. So stay there and we`ll come right back with that.
BERKLEY: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Elizabeth Berkley, whose new book, "Ask Elizabeth," is a handbook for teen girls. The book comes out of self- esteem workshops that you`ve done.
BERKLEY: Yes.
BEHAR: You`ve interviewed so many girls for this.
BERKLEY: I, you know what, through the last five years, I have been so privileged to have the schools opening their doors to me to allow me to volunteer with my self-esteem based workshop. And I have worked with over 30,000 girls now, sharing meaningful dialogue with them on their football fields and their cafeterias and their libraries, but giving them a safe space to feel heard and ask the questions they`ve been afraid to and connect with one another.
BEHAR: OK. So besides how I do meet Justin Bieber, what is the biggest thing?
(LAUGHTER)
BERKLEY: That`s been asked a few times. Or do you know Justin Bieber. You know, the girls put anonymous questions into this little basket, typically. And what I realize is no matter where I go, the same questions get asked over and over. I could be in Texas.
BEHAR: Really?
BERKLEY: I could be in Harlem or I could be in Florida. And so I took the most asked questions, and that`s what the book is. It`s the most asked questions with girls, me, and a dream team of female experts responding in scrapbook style.
But so, they can take advice from anyone. But the main -- the main -- let`s say body image is No. 1, for example.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s No. 1.
BERKLEY: Every woman -- I don`t think any woman fully accepts and embraces themselves physically, unfortunately, in our culture. No girl goes unscathed. So in this -- this is one of the most asked questions. It`s why I started that as the boldfaced question, because there are variations of it. In the book, it`s what do you do when you look in the mirror and you hate what you see?
BEHAR: Get another mirror.
(LAUGHTER)
BERKLEY: Yes, you could. You could. Actually, the mirror in my hotel was -- it was like a fun house warped mirror. It can play with your mind, you know? Those kinds of moments -- wait a minute.
BEHAR: But it`s true. I think what you`re saying is true. That girls -- they`re too hippy, their boobs are too big or too small or--
(CROSSTALK)
BERKLEY: Or they`re not developed enough or they`re too much or and it`s also that --
BEHAR: Boys don`t go through that?
BERKLEY: I don`t think boys do as much. I don`t work with boys in the same way. I sit with the girls and I`m hearing from them. I think what the biggest thing for them is the comparison aspect that leads them to so much suffering. You know, they`re growing and changing so fast, and accepting these new changes is really hard. And so they`re looking for their -- for the validation in others. And that is what is so --
BEHAR: Who is the culprit out there? Because when I was a kid, it was the magazines. My family told me I was beautiful. And then "Glamour" magazine appeared on my doorstep and that was the end of it. And now they have "Elle" and "Vogue." These are war criminals who put these magazines out.
(LAUGHTER)
BERKLEY: No, it`s tough. It`s tough for the girls. And what they say, especially now, like it`s the magazines. It`s online. It`s advertising. It`s the perfected digital images.
BEHAR: Right. And it`s not even the true image.
(CROSSTALK)
BERKLEY: No, and I tell them that. I break it down with them. As an actress, it`s the one thing I can at least share with them, kind of the peak behind the curtain of what it takes. And I share with them that even sometimes when they airbrush me, I then feel insecure with my own image staring back at me. Like, why did they have to do that? Why did they have to shave off this part of my arm? What`s wrong with me? So of course the girls are looking at that, wondering for themselves, every time you`re not enough.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Nobody -- I mean, these models are grown somewhere in Czechoslovakia on a farm. They`re not real people anymore. You know what I mean? I have interviewed Paula Porizkova and Nemca Petrotrov (ph) -- is that her name? What`s her name?
BERKLEY: Petra Nemcova.
BEHAR: Yes, Nemcova.
BERKLEY: Her too?
BEHAR: They`re adorable. They`re two Czechoslovakian girls.
BERKLEY: Beautiful.
BEHAR: They`re both adorable too. I love them both. They`re very sweet and very fun.
BERKLEY: Yes.
BEHAR: But they say that girls look like that in Czechoslovakia. Oh, there`s tons of them.
BERKLEY: Everywhere you look.
BEHAR: In Czechoslovakia. And here, the girls look all different ways. Why is that held up as the only form of beauty?
BERKLEY: Well, I mean that`s really the issue, is that the girls, of course, you know, the greatest thing they talk about is they feel they don`t measure up. And so they ask this question over and over, to kind of figure out what tools can they have? And that`s what we do in the workshop is come to some sort of realization together. I`m not standing on a podium telling girls how to run their lives. I create the space so we can help one another.
So this question, you know, what do you do when you look in the mirror and hate what you see, so many girls, you know, to reach self-acceptance is a huge journey. It doesn`t -- I always say --
BEHAR: It seems like we`ve gone backwards, because in the `60s and `70s, which is really way back, girls came out. They let their hair grow out curly and they didn`t wear braziers, particularly. And girls were a little chubby, they were skinny. They were in Woodstock. You know, there were different kinds of looks going on.
BERKLEY: Now there is this one ideal.
BEHAR: Now it`s back to that one skinny ideal.
BERKLEY: Right. And if they don`t fit that, they feel annihilated. Like deleted in the presence of another, that may have that, that kind of--
BEHAR: Exactly. And when you`re a young teen, I think you just want to fit in.
Let me ask you about something else.
BERKLEY: Sure.
BEHAR: We were talking the other day about something called a smut list that was circulating in Westchester and Connecticut and different parts. 100 names of mostly girls on this list that somebody put out, the list implying that these girls were sluts. They couldn`t say slut list because of FaceBook rules. So they called it--
BERKLEY: Right, created a word for it. Isn`t that clever.
BEHAR: What would you say to a girl who finds herself on that list?
BERKLEY: Well, you know, this is one of the problems that the girls are talking about. A lot of people ask me in my -- about the workshops and they ask me, what`s different about being a teen today? A lot of parents ask what is different about being a teen today. Moms are fearful. They want to understand and get a real peek into it.
One of the things obviously is this tool, the Internet, that is so incredible for so many reasons. But it is also the place where cruelty that girls normally would deal with in school, bullying and gossip and all that. Now, there is this other platform for it. So the example you just shared is awful. And this is just one more level of these girls being challenged with their self-esteem. And what do you do with that? You know --
BEHAR: You can`t take your name off the list. And if people are taunting you about it -- I think you just make fun of it.
BERKLEY: Humor.
BEHAR: Make fun of it.
BERKLEY: Humor is always -- especially -- for someone to be that cruel, to, you know, when we talk, when I talk with the girls about bullying, it`s often about not letting those kind of poisonous darts in as your new belief about yourself. But it`s painful and hurtful.
BEHAR: I think girls should be trained to really -- to encourage their sense of humor. Boys are. Boys will act crazy. They don`t take it seriously. Girls are taught to be lady-like and don`t be funny and don`t--
BERKLEY: Right, and don`t speak up. Often, just be a good girl.
BEHAR: And don`t speak up. That has got to stop.
BERKLEY: And that is one of the biggest chapters in here about either whether it`s confronting a friend, speaking your truth and not betraying yourself in the name of something you know doesn`t feel right. Like, so that`s why building the awareness with the girls within them to know and kind of check in with themselves. It`s so much about the outside. Who am I? Tell me who I am. Am I lovable? Am I worthy of your affection, friendship? And so this -- the work we do together kind of brings it back to them to kind of check in with what feels right for them.
BEHAR: It`s a nice book. And I hope that people will pick it up.
BERKLEY: Thank you.
BEHAR: It is called "Ask Elizabeth."
BERKLEY: I`m excited for moms to read it, too. It is a great tool to open up the dialogue with their daughter, too.
BEHAR: OK.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s lovely to see you, Elizabeth.
BERKLEY: You, too.
BEHAR: And we`ll be right back with the legendary Catherine Deneuve. Oh, yes. Oh, mais oui.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: She has made over 100 films enchanting audiences in movies such as "Belle de Jour", "The Last Metro" or my favorite "Indochine," for which she was nominated for an Academy Award. She is truly a legend both here and in her native France, where her latest film "Potiche" is a box office smash. It is opening in the United States this week. Take a look.
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: I`m very happy to have her here with me in the studio, please welcome to my show the great Catherine Deneuve. Did I say it right?
CATHERINE DENEUVE, ACTRESS: Hello. Yes. Fine.
BEHAR: Deneuve. Because they`re saying Deneuve, all crazy things--
(CROSSTALK)
DENEUVE: It`s difficult because it`s very close. Deneuve is a lot of close words, you know. It`s very -- it`s very difficult to pronounce.
BEHAR: Deneuve. Meaning of the new?
DENEUVE: Means of new. Yes. Of new. The meaning, yes, of new.
BEHAR: OK. So I saw "Postiche" (sic), which means what, exactly?
DENEUVE: "Potiche."
BEHAR: "Potiche," sorry, what did I say?
DENEUVE: Postish is some -- know, "Postiche" is something else, and pastiche is even something else, or too, so very close.
BEHAR: What is -- I know what pastiche means.
DENEUVE: Pastiche, you know what it is.
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: It`s a sort of -- I mean imitation, with (inaudible).
BEHAR: Right.
DENEUVE: And postiche is a sort of hair wig.
BEHAR: Oh, postiche is a word, too.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s a wig.
DENEUVE: Yes. A piece of a wig.
BEHAR: I see. And potiche?
DENEUVE: And potiche is one of those big vases sometimes you put, you know, somewhere just to look nice, to look at, but don`t have much use.
BEHAR: So you play a wife like that?
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: Who basically is beautiful. And he just admires her.
DENEUVE: Beautiful, I don`t know. She is nice, she tries to make, you know, life nice for the -- her family, her daughter, her husband, you know, taking care of her home. She is a sort of family home wife, you know.
BEHAR: She`s a housewife.
DENEUVE: She`s a housewife, exactly.
BEHAR: Yeah, that`s right.
DENEUVE: And she`s not taken too seriously and not treated too well by her, especially her husband.
BEHAR: Yes. And then he goes to jail, I believe, if I recall?
DENEUVE: Well, he -- he doesn`t go to jail. He is sick ...
BEHAR: OK, that`s right.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: He gets sick. Because he runs a whole company.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: And so you, as his wife, have to take over.
DENEUVE: Yes. I have to take over. And the sort of -- just because nobody thinks it`s going to last for very long, just to the time -- the time he recovers. Then it takes a little longer for him to recover. Then I get used to be in charge finally of this industry, of this fabric that makes umbrellas that my father started. And I sort of get used to it, like it, and when he recovers from his illness, I`m not really ready to give him back the factory.
BEHAR: I know. I think you liked it in the movie. You liked it.
DENEUVE: In the movie, I liked it, yes.
BEHAR: Do you think you would like it in real life to run a factory?
DENEUVE: I don`t think I would like to have to deal with so many people every day, no. No, I don`t think so.
BEHAR: Do you like being an actress all these years, Catherine?
DENEUVE: Yes. Otherwise, I wouldn`t do it anymore.
BEHAR: You wouldn`t do it, right. You know, you`re one of the people in the world, you and Helen Mirren and Meryl Streep from three different countries, who work no matter how older you get.
DENEUVE: Yes. We`re very lucky.
BEHAR: You all look still beautiful, all three of you.
DENEUVE: Well, we look good for women of our age, yes. But I suppose the fact that you are -- that you`re working and that people want to work with you and write parts for you, it`s very stimulating you know.
BEHAR: Yes. But I think that it`s because of the range that all three of you have also. I mean all three of you.
DENEUVE: Maybe. Yes.
BEHAR: You can play anything.
DENEUVE: Being able to do comedies and to do drama, yes. Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, you have movies; in "Repulsion," you played a murderer. In "The Hunger," you played a vampire.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: And "Belle de Jour" you played a housewife turned hooker.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: Those are just three.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, you really run the gamut as they say, in different parts.
DENEUVE: Well, in all those years, you know, I had time to explore the different side of a woman.
BEHAR: Yes, so, I mean could you -- the "Belle de Jour" was quite advanced. And the "Hunger" also. And there were lesbian scenes in "The Hunger", right?
DENEUVE: Yeah, but it was a vampire story than -- it`s more love story than a vampire than really -- there`s a lesbian scene, you know, it`s sort of a love scene with Susan Sarandon.
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: And -- but it`s more a vampire story. And I love films about vampires.
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: It`s very erotic.
BEHAR: It is very erotic.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: And I think that a lot of gays like that movie not just for vampireness ...
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: ... but for the gay part, too.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: Because it`s special. It`s special. And it`s not really -- it`s not really so common. So it`s true that gays like very much that film.
BEHAR: Now, you know, you also are in "Nip and Tuck." You played something on "Nip and Tuck."
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: Or "Nip/Tuck.". What it`s called -- "Nip/Tuck."
DENEUVE: "Nip/Tuck".
BEHAR: And -- so you played -- what did you do in that? I didn`t see that. What did you do?
DENEUVE: I have a small part, you know, in one of them. Because I like the series very much. And I thought I would be interested to do something. I made the producer embarrassed. And he wrote this little part for me, in one of the series where I play a woman who wants to have a sort of an implant done where she would put the ashes of her lover, you know, in my breast.
BEHAR: Really?
DENEUVE: In my--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ashes in your boobs?
DENEUVE: In my boobs, yes.
BEHAR: Oh, my god.
DENEUVE: Yes. That`s how much she loved him, you know.
BEHAR: That is crazy.
DENEUVE: Well, it is a little wild, yes. But this is, you know, "Nip/Tuck" is quite special.
BEHAR: But, you know, it`s about plastic surgery, which Americans love plastic surgery. I don`t know if the French like it as much.
DENEUVE: I`m not sure they like it as much, no. From what I see. I don`t think they like it as much. But they do like it. I mean, because it`s hiding (ph) (inaudible) a little bit. In France, I think they like more the injection, you know, for things, you know, which are lighter than the real tough job.
BEHAR: Botox?
DENEUVE: Botox, yes. And also, yes. Botox and all the ...
BEHAR: The fillers, risratelin (ph). Yes. I have that. I do that.
DENEUVE: You know, well, I think it`s -- it`s right. I think it`s a little dangerous, you know, to when you start to use these things. You use it too much.
BEHAR: I know. Then you start looking crazy.
DENEUVE: But not so much looking crazy that sometimes you can see when you see photos, you know, it`s sort of become a little paralyzed, you know, sort of erased.
BEHAR: Well, as an actress, you want to have some, you know, movement in your face.
DENEUVE: Expression. And I know some directors, American directors complain that it was difficult to find an actress over 40 years old with an expression, you know, on her front and her eyes.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Really?
DENEUVE: I read that in a French papers, yes. They said that they complain that it`s very difficult to find an actress of a certain age who still can move her face, you know, in a normal way.
BEHAR: Yes. But you know, I was reading something in a French magazine one time about you. And you have a house in the country. And you cook and you`re very ...
DENEUVE: Like everybody.
BEHAR: You are very ...
(CROSSTALK)
DENEUVE: I mean like everybody -- like every woman who has a house in the country. You have to do things, otherwise, you know.
BEHAR: I know. We don`t -- you know, when you see -- when I see you in "Indochine" and "The Last Metro," you`re so glamorous. You would never think of yourself as a woman who does that. And I thought it was a wonderful article about you. That showed you`re a real person.
DENEUVE: Yes. Of course I`m a real person. And I enjoy very much to be in the country. So I enjoy to have a house and to have friends. So, I do a lot of things that I have to do. You know, and I love gardening. And ...
BEHAR: You do?
DENEUVE: Oh, yes, yes.
BEHAR: Flowers, les fleurs. OK.
DENEUVE: Flowers, and trees, everything.
BEHAR: I`m just practicing my French with you.
DENEUVE: I can see that.
BEHAR: Les fleurs.
DENEUVE: Les fleurs.
BEHAR: Two years of French, so give me a break about it.
DENEUVE: Yes, it`s good. No, le fleur was fine.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We`ll have more with Catherine Deneuve on the way. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the talented and beautiful actress Catherine Deneuve.
DENEUVE: Were you happy that you had a name like that? Joy?
BEHAR: How do you say, you say "joie?"
DENEUVE: Joie. Because I suppose if you are called Joy, you must have a happy character. I`m sure that first name influenced your character. You cannot be Joy and be upset.
BEHAR: That`s true. I mean, I never felt that I could be depressed around my relatives.
DENEUVE: Not for long, yes?
BEHAR: Although I would like to be. Yes. But they wouldn`t ...
(CROSSTALK)
DENEUVE: I`m sure Joy had a very big influence on your character.
BEHAR: Yes. What about Catherine? How did that influence you?
DENEUVE: Well, Catherine doesn`t say as much as Joy, you know.
BEHAR: But Saint Catherine. She ...
DENEUVE: Saint Catherine, yes, of course. But you see, for example, in Spain, they have names that are very -- very sort of heavy and painful, like pain. You have a lot of names called Dolores ...
BEHAR: Oh, Dolores, which means pain.
DENEUVE: ... which means pains. Yes. It`s a very -- They have much more, and I`m sure that gives you a certain weight, you know, when you are a young child to have names that bring ...
BEHAR: Who wants to be named pain?
DENEUVE: Well, in Spain they don`t seem to realize it anymore, because Dolores is a very classical name.
BEHAR: Yes, it is pretty, too. Dolores.
DENEUVE: (inaudible) de los Dolores.
BEHAR: Yes. Now, you were married only once, I read.
DENEUVE: That`s enough.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know, I know.
DENEUVE: No, but I mean, if you get married, I mean many times, I don`t see why you should get married again. You should know it is not for you.
BEHAR: I so relate to what you`re saying. I was married once. I`m with the next guy, 28 years we got married. Yeah. I know. I emulate the French in that way.
DENEUVE: Yeah, in America, I know women like to get married.
BEHAR: Why? Why do they like to get married?
DENEUVE: I don`t know. Love and security.
BEHAR: But it wasn`t for you?
DENEUVE: No, because I work and I have a sort of independence, so I don`t have that fear. And it is different. But I`m not against marriage at all. I think it is fine. I just think that...
BEHAR: For others.
DENEUVE: If you get divorced, it means, you know -- I would understand more marriage if there was no divorce.
BEHAR: I don`t know that that works like that, because most marriages -- and 50 percent end in divorce in this country anyway.
DENEUVE: Yeah. Yeah. In France, too, now. Yes.
BEHAR: But you said -- so you said that marriage is obsolete and a trap. Did you say that?
DENEUVE: Marriage is obsolete?
BEHAR: Obsolete and a trap.
DENEUVE: A trap? No.
BEHAR: A trap. You don`t say that.
DENEUVE: No, I didn`t say that. That`s not my quote. No.
BEHAR: It`s not.
DENEUVE: No.
BEHAR: But you have had wonderful relationships with men. Some incredible ...
DENEUVE: Yeah, but I didn`t get married. It`s fine. It was ...
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: It doesn`t make much difference.
BEHAR: The list of the three men that I have here, I`m very much in awe of you. Marcello Mastroianni ....
DENEUVE: The father of my daughter.
BEHAR: Yes. Chiara.
DENEUVE: Yes.
BEHAR: Who is a beautiful girl ...
DENEUVE: Beautiful.
BEHAR: And looks so much like a combination of you and Marcello.
DENEUVE: Yes. It`s true, absolutely.
BEHAR: A lot like Marcello.
DENEUVE: A lot. She is very Italian and very French, too.
BEHAR: Does she have children?
DENEUVE: Yes, yes, two children.
BEHAR: So you`re a grandmother -- grandmere.
DENEUVE: Yes. And I love it.
BEHAR: What do the children call you?
DENEUVE: Manu.
BEHAR: Manu?
DENEUVE: Manu. It doesn`t mean anything, huh?
BEHAR: They just made that word up? Manu?
DENEUVE: Well, I suppose I had a friend who was called like that by her grandchildren.
BEHAR: Well, you know, my daughter just had a baby. I would like to call -- have the baby call me Manu now. Just because ...
(LAUGHTER)
DENEUVE: Manu, it is nice. It is kind, it`s -- you know.
BEHAR: Yeah. I was thinking of the Divine Joie.
DENEUVE: Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
DENEUVE: But Joy is wonderful. Except you (inaudible) grandchildren calling you by your first name. No.
BEHAR: I know, it`s too cold. You can`t do that.
DENEUVE: Yes, it has to be more personal.
BEHAR: Is there anything that you, any movie or script that would you still like to do a movie about? Some book that you`ve always wanted to do?
DENEUVE: No. No, I`m not really appealed particularly to famous characters or things like that. No, I mean, no, I don`t think so.
BEHAR: I saw a movie, before we go -- I know I ran out of time. I saw a movie that you did that is only in French and has no subtitles. "Marie Bonaparte."
DENEUVE: Oh, I love that.
BEHAR: Oh, my God. It`s the most wonderful movie.
DENEUVE: That`s one of the few characters I did in film that was someone that existed, you know, in someone`s family. She was-- she became a psycho analyst. She was married to -- she was from a very big family. She was called -- she married a Bonaparte. So she was very, you know, raised in a sort of very high sense, and she became a psychoanalyst because she did psychoanalysis with Freud.
BEHAR: With Freud.
DENEUVE: She became completely involved, in the sense she was so -- so interested. She became herself a psychoanalyst.
BEHAR: And she got him out of Austria.
DENEUVE: She got him out of Austria, to go to England, to save (ph) him and his family as well. And she is a great character.
BEHAR: Do you have any clout to get some subtitles on that movie?
DENEUVE: There is no subtitles?
BEHAR: No. I saw it at Lincoln Center.
DENEUVE: Very strange.
BEHAR: I know. It`s a wonderful movie.
DENEUVE: That`s a shame because it`s a wonderful movie. But a very good movie director, Benoit Jacquot.
BEHAR: I can`t tell you what a pleasure it has been to have you here.
DENEUVE: Thank you very much. Thank you.
BEHAR: You can see Catherine Deneuve in "Potiche" in theaters March 25th. Good night, everybody.
END
