Return to Transcripts main page
Joy Behar Page
Women vs. Wal-Mart; Sheen`s Intern Search; Tween Bikini Controversy
Aired March 28, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ROSEANNE BARR, GUEST HOST: No, your eyes aren`t deceiving. And no, you`re not on the wrong channel. And obviously I`m not Joy Behar.
I`m actually an outspoken, occasionally loud-mouthed, brassy broad with a lot of strong opinions that sometimes rub people the wrong way. Hey, wait a second. Joy Behar`s stealing my act.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the one and only Roseanne Barr is sitting in for Joy. She`ll talk to a woman who`s suing retail giant Wal-Mart for discrimination. The Supreme Court will hear this landmark labor case tomorrow and we`ll tell you what it will mean for women in the work place.
Then HLN`s Jane Velez-Mitchell has an update on the Amanda Knox murder trial. Could stunning new testimony exonerate Knox?
Plus, Sheryl Crow talks about her battle with cancer and going from the studio to the kitchen with her new cook book. That and more starting right now.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARR: Hello, everybody. I`m Roseanne Barr, sitting in, bitch-hitting for Joy Behar for a couple of nights. I`m very excited. We`ve got so much to cover. And I`m very interested in finding out both sides and figuring out for myself what any of this stuff means.
It`s a big week. This week, the Supreme Court will begin hearing arguments to see whether over one million women can come together and sue the nation`s largest retailer, Wal-Mart, for discrimination. Here with me now is the woman who started it all, Betty Duke.
Hi Betty.
BETTY DUKE, SUING WAL-MART: Hi Roseanne, how are you?
BARR: I`m good. You are the lead plaintiff in the case against Wal- Mart. And you`re joined by your attorney, Jocelyn Larkin. Hi Jocelyn.
JOCELYN LARKIN, ATTORNEY FOR BETTY DUKE: Hi.
BARR: Well, Betty lay it all out for. Why do you think Wal-Mart discriminated against you?
DUKE: Well, we`ve come a long ways since we filed our lawsuit back in 2001. And we`ve been dealing with an ongoing national issue of racial discrimination -- excuse me, gender discrimination, with women in the workforce, workplace, in regards to promotion as well as salary. It just seems like it`s just embedded in the culture that has been an ongoing practice.
BARR: Now, you joined forces with six other women early on and when did you realize that there might be something big to your case?
DUKE: Well, when we first started from the advice from the legal counsel that we had, it did show a pattern. They were able to see that there was a pattern that was national and it involved all the stores across the country that women like myself was experiencing gender discrimination in promotion as well as salary. The facts were there.
BARR: Well, isn`t it true that like 67 percent of the workers are female and something like only 13 percent of them make it to manager?
DUKE: It`s more towards 80 percent of the workers are female and yes, the number that makes it to management is very low.
BARR: Wal-Mart says they`ve always forbidden discrimination. So let`s listen to Wal-Mart`s executive vice president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GISEL RUIS, EXECUTIVE VP, WAL-MART: The plaintiffs and the class members have very little in common and there really isn`t -- there isn`t a way that three individuals can barely represent the experiences of over 1.5 million other women by the way who worked for thousands of different stores with thousands of different managers in multiple states throughout the country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BARR: Jocelyn, they`re kind of -- she`s kind of saying that it`s kind of an accident. Why did you decide to pursue a class action suit rather than dealing with it individually?
LARKIN: Well, there`s a couple of reasons. First of all, what we found is that the policies comes from the top and they apply to every store across the country. What we also saw was that the results were the same across the country. So in 41 regions across the country, women were paid less than men for the same work.
But the other thing, Roseanne, is that one woman can`t possibly take on the largest employer in America and expect to succeed. She needs to stand together with other women in order to change the practices that we claim have discriminated against them.
BARR: It`s kind of funny that a bunch of rich people can band together and form a corporation and that`s called "free enterprise"; but when workers do it, they call it "communism". Do you have anything to say about that? Isn`t that weird? Do you think that`s weird?
LARKIN: Well, I think that there should be an equal opportunity for women to stand together and bring their claims to court. The whole point is let`s just get this, these appeals of Wal-Mart`s over, so that we can go to a jury. We`ll put on our story. They`ll put on their story.
BARR: Right. And they decide for us tomorrow, right?
LARKIN: The Supreme Court will decide whether it`s a class action. They`ll hear the case tomorrow and they`ll render a decision probably in June.
BARR: Everybody`s saying it`s huge. It`s like the biggest thing that`s ever happened. I mean it has such huge weight for workers. Not just female, but all workers.
There could potentially be 1.5 million complaints in one lawsuit. How do we know that they all have merit, though?
LARKIN: Well, what`s important here Roseanne is that the first part of the case would be the issue of whether Wal-Mart in fact had a practice of allowing managers essentially to discriminate against women. At the second part of the trial, the court would then decide which of the women had actually been injured. So only the women who actually were paid less than the man at the next cash register, those women would get compensation.
But the point here is to change the practices at Wal-Mart and make it that all the women that work there now and in the future are able to get fair treatment.
BARR: Well, you know, they`re saying that you know, as it goes pretty regularly, that some of these women have been there for a long time, have been working there for a long time, have good records and they`re like hiring men off the streets for them to train. I mean that`s part of it, too, isn`t it?
LARKIN: Yes. Betty, you want to talk about that.
DUKE: Well, you know, Roseanne. I`ve been in my store for 16-plus years and in my ninth year, by then we had filed the discrimination case. And I was only making $8.15 an hour with nine years of service that also included being a front end customer service manager. But I do know that the record would also show that there were men that was hired after me that was making literally a reasonable amount more than me and they only had a few years in compared to my nine years.
BARR: Well, Betty, I just -- I wish you the best. I hope that you win. I mean, you know, I hope that you win and you know --
DUKE: Thank you.
BARR: I hope that it goes forward because, you know, I mean I`m just really tired of it. It`s been going on for way too long. And we`ll see what happens.
DUKE: Thank you so much, Roseanne.
BARR: Thank you, good luck.
LARKIN: Thank you.
BARR: We`ll be back in a minute with the latest on Charlie Sheen`s search for an intern.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, nine-time Grammy winner, Sheryl Crow drops by to talk about her cook book, "If It Makes You Healthy".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
ROSEANNE BARR: It`s round three in Charlie Sheen`s search for an intern. They got something like 80,000 people to apply and then they narrowed it down to 250. With me now to discuss this and other stories in the news are comedian, Kevin Meaney --
KEVIN MEANEY, COMEDIAN: Hello Roseanne. How are you?
BARR: Hi. I`m good how are you?
MEANEY: Good very good.
BARR: Good.
BARR: Jessica -- quiet -- Jessica Shaw, senior writer, "Entertainment Weekly". Hi Jessica.
JESSICA SHAW, SENIOR WRITER, "ENTERTAINMENT WEEKLY": Hello.
BARR: And Chef Rocco DiSpirito, a cookbook author of "Now Eat this Diet".
ROCCO DISPIRITO, AUTHOR, "NOW EAT THIS DIET": That`s right.
BARR: And you said you have healthy cheese. I don`t believe that.
DISPIRITO: I have healthy Mac and cheese. Even better.
(CROSS TALK)
BARR: Oh my God I`ve got to get into that book. So ok, what do you guys think about Charlie Sheen? First of all, I looked at it. You know, it says intern --
(CROSS TALK)
SHAW: It was fine.
BARR: No, but I thought it was going to be a bunch of coke whores and everything but I went there to YouTube and by God it`s intelligent people who know about what they`re talking about.
(CROSS TALK)
MEANEY: Oh yes.
BARR: It pushed me up.
MEANEY: Yes I -- I applied.
BARR: They know this social media stuff, they know about Twitter and Facebook.
MEANEY: Yes.
BARR: All these things old people don`t know anything about. It`s amazing.
MEANEY: Yes, I applied to you know, to as an intern, but I think I`m a little old. But I -- you know he`s a total genius.
BARR: He kind of is.
MEANEY: You know.
BARR: Yes.
MEANEY: I mean he sold out Radio City Music Hall.
BARR: Two nights.
MEANEY: For two nights. I mean, I want to go see that show. I mean, it`s going to be either brilliant or just like this train wreck.
SHAW: I just want to know, what is the career trajectory? Once you`re Charlie Sheen`s intern, what`s the next step? Do you work at the Playboy mansion? Like what -- what`s your goal?
BARR: No, it`s not like that. I`m telling you it`s like these guys and they`re like the Facebook connection to the social media with the Twitter. They`re all the Twittering kind of people that know how to reach an audience. They`re like direct -- direct marketing --
(CROSS TALK)
SHAW: They know how to talk like winning, winning.
BARR: As demographic starts -- like, what?
DISPIRITO: Those girls went to Wellesley -- can you imagine? You get to put "Goddess" on your resume. Imagine someone interviewing you. Hey, Wellesley, Peace Corps, goddess for Charlie Sheen. You`re hired. That`s incredible.
BARR: I`m going to hire one of these people, I swear.
DISPIRITO: Yes.
BARR: Because I need an intern, first of all I like interns because you don`t have to pay them.
DISPIRITO: Yes.
BARR: I got all these people in on me who know how to get Facebook or Twitter or any of that stuff. These guys know how connect things and make things happen. And one of the things they made happen, this new social media is you know of him selling out Radio City Music Hall.
DISPIRITO: And I hear the show is going to be amazing. I hear the show is going to be amazing. He`s being coached by James Franco. He`s being coached by James Franco so it`s a -- he`s going to do great.
MEANEY: I might streak across that stage, you know?
That would be fine. That would get to --
BARR: All right.
MEANEY: Don`t look at me like that.
DISPIRITO: Kevin, are you going to show them the same thing you showed me in the dressing room?
MEANEY: Yes.
DISPIRITO: Oh boy that would get some laughs for sure.
MEANEY: Thank you Rocco.
BARR: Now I`m really afraid. So that`s what you guys have to say about these brilliant interns --
(CROSS TALK)
SHAW: And just feels -- it feels a little just too much to me. It`s like enough Charlie Sheen. I know you guys think his show is going to be so brilliant but --
MEANEY: I didn`t say it was going to be brilliant. I think -- I think, it`s either going to be like this train wreck --
SHAW: Yes, I feel like it`s a train wreck. But I think there`s train wreck funny and train wreck good and then there`s train wreck bad. I think he has just crossed the line as train wreck bad.
(CROSS TALK)
BARR: I don`t know, I thought that at first. I thought that at first but the more I thought about it, it`s like, the guy is like bringing a lot of people together like other people aren`t. It`s kind of cool.
DISPIRITO: There is something like -- there is some kind of genius going on. What is it that he`s doing --
(CROSS TALK)
SHAW: Yes it`s cool there`s people that he`s bringing together --
(CROSS TALK)
BARR: He`s not going to play that role that they want to force on everybody.
DISPIRITO: Right.
BARR: He`s not going to play the good dad, the good citizen. He`s just like, "f" it and this might be the time for that.
(CROSS TALK)
MEANEY: He never played good dad or the good --
BARR: He`s not even trying.
MEANEY: No but he -- you know in the show, "Two and a Half Men," he was like you know, a nut. You know John Cryer was the good guy.
SHAW: Yes but who -- what are you going to learn? If you`re the intern, what are you going to learn? You personally want to be an intern as you can maybe learn from your employer.
(CROSS TALK)
MEANEY: I think you`re going to learn -- you`re going to learn what not to do. That`s what you`re going to learn.
DISPIRITO: Didn`t he play a womanizing alcoholic on the show?
MEANEY: Yes he`s a very good actor.
DISPIRITO: There`s nothing wrong with that, right?
BARR: But I just mean like, I think Charlie Sheen has like transcended that whole show. And now he`s like, you know a cause celebre. He`s got like the whole social -- he`s got like the whole social movement behind him now.
MEANEY: Yes.
SHAW: For now.
BARR: Of people who like, "f" it, we`re not going to play the role.
MEANEY: Maybe he`ll run for president.
BARR: It`s not going to be good, we`re not going to do what everybody wants us to do. You know we`re just going to go for it.
DISPIRITO: We`re in a country that rewards bad behavior. I mean, come on let`s -- let`s admit it right? Aren`t we?
BARR: That`s true.
DISPIRITO: Absolutely. So that we shouldn`t be surprised that Charlie`s being bad and getting attention for it. And he`s doing what we want, basically isn`t it?
BARR: I like that he`s like, forget it, I`m a big drug addict to the drug and I`m proud of it. It`s kind of cool after -- you know all of sudden --
(CROSS TALK)
MEANEY: Who doesn`t want to be bi-winning come on?
BARR: -- where people are like going to rehab, get my life back on track. He`s like, forget it, I`m going to drink more, take more drugs -- F U.
MEANEY: Yes Dr. Drew tried to help him. But he doesn`t you know, nobody -- nobody can help him. He`s got to help himself and he`s totally insane.
SHAW: You know what? Somebody needs to help Dr. Drew. Once again as an intern --
BARR: Moving on. We have to move on but that`s what they go (INAUDIBLE)
Remember last week -- here is a good one -- when George Lopez made a cruel joke referring Kirstie Alley to a pig? How rude was that?
DISPIRITO: Oh my God.
MEANEY: You know, I -- I didn`t see it live, but I did read about it in the paper, you know what was it the hooves are --
SHAW: Yes.
BARR: Yes.
MEANEY: What was the joke?
BARR: He -- he said something about the little pig --
MEANEY: He can really -- she could really move those hooves. And then I said, well, that`s not that bad, and then I realized that the hooves were pig hooves.
BARR: Yes.
MEANEY: So then -- then, if I -- I finally got it after you know, after I had a cup of coffee --
BARR: We might be at a time in our social history where like fat jokes about fat women are just not funny and passe. They`re so offensive. I like, was so mad.
(CROSSTALK)
SHAW: I kind of felt like, you know, it`s not even that I`m offended by the fat joke; I`m just offended by the joke. it`s just a lame joke, it`s an easy target. But I do have to say in his defense a lot of late night comics did that kind of joke. Conan O`Brien did and I just felt, why is he getting all of you know, the nation`s eye for this.
DISPIRITO: Everyone did do that joke and I -- I heard it, morning shows, late night shows.
(CROSS TALK)
SHAW: Right.
BARR: Do you think they might have writers; can they get interns that can write a joke? I mean all these stupid jokes in the world. I hate fat jokes, don`t you? I mean, don`t you --
(CROSS TALK)
MEANEY: I -- I don`t like fat jokes, no, I don`t. You know, so because I carry a little bit of weight. So I don`t you know, it`s -- it`s always, people are talking about, I go home, my mother goes, you look like you lost a little bit.
BARR: Yes.
MEANEY: You know I -- and I used to be so skinny and I was still fat, you know?
SHAW: Just go into therapy session?
DISPIRITO: I did find it ironic that -- yes here we go.
MEANEY: Thank you Rocco.
(CROSS TALK)
BARR: It`s so completely sexist to like make fun of fat women.
SHAW: Right.
BARR: You never hear a fat guy joke. And you never do. But they`re on "Time" magazine. All the big actors are all a bunch of fat guys and then the women were like they`re just telling jokes about being pigs. It makes me mad.
MEANEY: Yes. She`s mad.
SHAW: She`s had of much better comeback though, she took him down with his kidney, she was like, you can give your kidney back.
BARR: Well, his wife that gave him the kidney is fat, too.
MEANEY: Yes.
BARR: And he owes her a big apology.
SHAW: And he divorced her.
BARR: As soon as she divorced him I think you start hitting the soft.
Guys stay right there. More when we come back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARR: I`m back with my panel.
Hey, you guys. Controversial retailer, Abercrombie and Fitch has come under fire yet again. This time, you know what they`re doing -- marketing a padded, push-up bikini for girls as young as 7-years old.
DISPIRITO: Oh, my God. That is just terrible.
BARR: Isn`t it?
MEANEY: Lamb of God, take away the sins.
SHAW: I want to know, are they doing the same for boys` bathing suits? Are they padding theirs as well?
MEANEY: How dare you? How do you think I got through life?
BARR: Now, isn`t that kind of sick Bill?
MEANEY: I`m going to get one for my daughter.
BARR: Are you?
MEANEY: She`s going to wear it to --
BARR: What`s your daughter`s name again?
MEANEY: JonBenet -- no, that`s not funny. I`m sorry. You know.
That Abercrombie and Fitch, I went in there once and I love that store because you`re out there and there`s like handsome fellows out there just luring you in. But then I went in and said, yes, what size would you want? I said, I want a 38 waist and they go, "We don`t make anything that big."
I`m out of here.
DISPIRITO: Putting you right in your place.
MEANEY: Yes.
SHAW: I really think it`s repulsive that they`re doing that. I feel if they`re going to do something like this, they need to have molesters or child predators as part of their ad campaign. I think it`s so crazy.
BARR: Why do you think it`s bad? I mean girls are getting their period at nine, nowadays. So maybe, you know.
MEANEY: Even younger than that.
BARR: Even younger than that. Yes. Because the hormones in the chicken.
MEANEY: And I`m prepared.
BARR: But why not? Why shouldn`t a little girl -- I mean when I was four, I used to like to dress up or wear heels and -- I mean maybe it`s not that bad.
DISPIRITO: It`s like we`re breeding body consciousness and insecurity into seven-year-old girls. We should do the decent thing. Do what every other retailer does, wait until their 12, right?
BARR: Good point.
SHAW: I just think there`s such a nationwide problem right now with young girls being overly sexualized. And the media -- in so many places and they`re getting it from all sides. It doesn`t need -- you don`t need to contribute more to the problem.
BARR: You know what I noticed (INAUDIBLE), all these girls that -- the little girls that are dressed like that, all their mothers are fat. That`s something that does bother me. If you really notice that, they all have very fat mothers. Any way --
MEANEY: And maybe these kids could wear the girls like the Olsen twins could wear that little push-up thing.
BARR: They might.
MEANEY: Because they have very small --
(CROSSTALK)
MEANEY: You know.
BARR: Good point. And they`re adults.
MEANEY: Yes. And they`re adults.
BARR: They`re trunks are about the size of a 7-year-old. Now, those guys are way too thin.
DISPIRITO: Charlie Sheen might want some of those girls for his internship. That`s bad. That`s what I`m afraid of.
(CROSSTALK)
DISPIRITO: They should get him and get involved --
SHAW: They have an intern application and next to it, you have the 7- year-old bikinis.
MEANEY: Charlie`s too old for --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: Finally, you guys, finally, New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg took the stage at a political roast this weekend dressed in disco duds as Tony Manero from "Saturday Night Fever", or whatever it`s called. And also as "Superman". Take a look.
There he is. See?
MEANEY: The picture says it all. I mean what else are we going to --
SHAW: And he looks pretty buff, I think it was an Abercrombie --
MEANEY: Wow.
DISPIRITO: You think it`s padded?
SHAW: I don`t know.
BARR: He looks like he`s confidence to run one of the biggest states.
DISPIRITO: He looks very comfortable there. I think he`s just parodying the economy of New York City. That`s what that was. You know, falling down on stage, one accident after another.
BARR: I think he looks kind of hot. I have to admit.
SHAW: You like a man in a harness?
BARR: I like that -- he`s like a billionaire.
SHAW: He is a billionaire.
DISPIRITO: That does make you taller.
MEANEY: And then, when you have that harness on, that`s right in your crotch area.
DISPIRITO: It enhances all the right parts.
MEANEY: It`s right there. I`ve been in a harness many times.
BARR: I bet you have. Thanks, everyone. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Sheryl Crow sits down with Roseanne to talk about her battle with cancer and what she`s doing now to stay healthy.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARR: Welcome back, everybody. I`m Roseanne Barr, bench-hitting for Joy Behar. And I`m very excited.
Sheryl Crow is a nine-time Grammy-winning musician, an activist and a mother. Her bout with breast cancer lead her to make healthier choices in the food she eats and she shows what she learned in her new cook book with chef Chuck White, "If It Makes You Healthy."
Welcome, Sheryl. Hi.
SHERYL CROW, MUSICIAN: Hi. How are you?
BARR: I`m good. How are you?
CROW: I like hearing you sing that.
BARR: I know. I love that song.
CROW: Thank you. My sister, I have to say this, I don`t want to make her mad. But my sister thought the book should be called, if it makes you healthy, then why the hell are you so fat?
(LAUGHTER)
BARR: No, but it is possible to be healthy and fat.
CROW: Absolutely.
BARR: And I`m very healthy. I`m fat as a horse and healthy as a horse, too. My cholesterol is zero.
CROW: Yes. You can eat super healthy and be, you know, heftier.
BARR: Yes. Hefty is a good word. I like hefty.
So, I was looking at your cookbook and you have lovely pictures of your lovely farm. I think it`s so great that you live on a farm. Talk about that, leaving L.A.
CROW: It`s great. I got diagnosed with breast cancer five years ago this month. So, I`m done, hopefully. And that was such a life-changing experience that I decided I wanted to adopt children. I wanted my life to look and feel differently, which it was going to any way because of the diagnoses.
And I moved home, basically. I grew up three hours from there. My whole family lives down there. My sister lived there. Bought some land.
BARR: Are you actually farming though or do you have people --
CROW: Well, we, I have a huge organic farm.
BARR: That`s cool.
CROW: We have chickens. A couple of what we call lawn art -- long horn cows, donkeys and then 17 horses.
But we hay. We harvest our hay and sell it to local farmers for cows.
BARR: I think it`s great.
CROW: It`s been really great, because my kids are both -- you know, they go down and get the eggs. Actually, the little one doesn`t. He`s only 10 months. They`re growing up with solar panels. And everything is very sustainable. We`re trying to be sustainable as possible.
But it`s very difficult, because, you know, you go to Germany or Paris, and you have solar panels, and you get 80 cents back on a dollar. In America, you get 15, or at least 15 cents.
BARR: Isn`t that crazy?
CROW: It should be made easier in this country.
BARR: They`re trying to prevent people from being self-sufficient, kind of.
CROW: Yes, I am al about making these things for affordable and more easily accessed. And it`s just really been exciting.
BARR: You are so ahead of the curve once again on this whole organic farming and eating locally.
Let`s talk about that for a minute, too. How important it is to eat locally.
CROW: Just talking about the organic farming, which I love that you`re doing it. It`s just all these reports coming out about antibiotics and things. My kids have been or my kid is going to school now and has been sick a lot and been on a lot of antibiotics and he`s 3 1/2 years. And hearing that about meat, it`s really alarming to me. And so --
BARR: What, how much --
(CROSSTALK)
CROW: The antibiotics in food and how they`re not necessarily working anymore because we`re developing a tolerance to the antibiotics that we`re used to taking. It`s just ridiculous with our meat now. And just --
BARR: It`s ridiculous what`s in our environment.
CROW: Yes, it really is.
BARR: That brings us to the subject of cancer, which you are a survivor of cancer.
And what would you say to women watching and men, too, who are undergoing treatment now for -- what advice can you give?
CROW: Well, a lot. First and foremost, I had breast cancer. Until there`s a cure, prevention is the best hope that we have. So, knowing your family history, knowing the trend (ph) of your breast and be indulgent about mammograms is really important. And I think that food -- this is the reason we did the cookbook -- food is an amazing tool in fortifying your immune system and defense against disease in general. There`s so much in food.
BARR: Like give us a couple of the best foods we can eat. Like what, broccoli?
CROW: Well, anything that`s really bright colored is going to be high in anti-oxidants. So, if you have a choice between a white cabbage and a purple cabbage, always go purple. Same with the colors (ph) of potatoes, leafy green vegetables are high in fiber and high antioxidants. Vitamin C, cumin and turmeric and cinnamon, all of these are -- some of them are like directly prostate fighting, ovarian cancer, and breast cancer. And all with information is in there.
And we wanted to make a cookbook that was really good and tasty. And that people like me who don`t cook, could cook. But there has some information on it, too.
BARR: OK. You were a big Obama supporter.
CROW: Yes.
BARR: And how are you feeling now about him? I mean, Matt Damon kind of said, I don`t even like Obama anymore, and he said that he misread his mandate from the people. You know, it`s kind of easy to jump on the gun now. But are you still -- how do you feel?
CROW: Well, you know -- I would say a couple of things. I think he got handed a very, very damaged government.
BARR: Didn`t he? Yes, that`s right.
CROW: And I think that he`s -- in my estimation, has been the first president really since Bobby Kennedy was running to speak in terms of consciousness. And I like that about him. And when I met him, I felt the vibe he was giving off was pretty much in line, that was all intact.
BARR: What about now with the whole Libya thing? What are you feeling about that?
CROW: You know, I have mixed emotions about it. I would like to know more. I feel like we didn`t know very much.
BARR: He`s going to be telling us tonight.
CROW: Yes. I`m definitely at home watching that.
You know, the only thing that I can say about where we are in our history is that to manifest peace throughout the world, we have to manifest peace within. And I have never seen our world, our country, in such a state of confusion and state of being checked out in all the wrong things than now -- I mean, in a personal level.
And that`s one of the reasons raising my kids on the farm has been really big (ph) for me, because I want my kids to grow up with a compassionate heart, without being --
BARR: And connecting with nature, come on. That`s a big stuff, our connection to nature, anything real, and fills us up with B.S.
But, sometimes, I like, well, when I`m out there on my farm and I`m digging in the dirt and stuff, I`m like this is a great opportunity for all women to like wake up and see. Remember what`s real. Remember what`s real and that you can grow it.
CROW: Absolutely. And I think there is really something to the -- roam the earth to the table and to the body that is a real lesson. You know, there`s a real lesson in that and --
BARR: Isn`t that feminism? I want to talk to you about feminism for a minute.
CROW: I definitely think so, because I think the planet as an organism, you know, we live of her energy. And she`s really suffering right now.
BARR: That`s right. We got to get her back. We have to have of the thing that sustains us. Why would we be in this crazy environment we`re trying to kill our own environment? So lemming, it drives nuts. That`s why I`m saying, women have got to wake up, eat healthy and start getting out there and taking over the world, don`t you agree, Sheryl?
CROW: I think (INAUDIBLE).
BARR: I love it.
More with Sheryl Crow in just a minute. Love it.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC VIDEO CLIP)
BARR: I`m back with Sheryl Crow. And joining us to talk about their cookbook, "If It Makes You Healthy," is chef Chuck White.
Hi, Chuck.
CHUCK WHITE, CO-AUTHOR, "IF IT MAKES YOU HEALTHY": How`s it going?
BARR: Good. How are you doing?
WHITE: Thanks for having me.
BARR: I saw you on -- I got to get right to the big story -- I saw you guys on TV today. The "Today" show, I think. And you were talking about healthy cooking. I saw you put butter and bacon in the pan, and then you were frying the fish with bread crumbs. I`m like, this is like heaven nirvana, heaven on earth.
CROW: Just a tiny bit of crack cocaine, too.
(LAUGHTER)
BARR: How can you call butter and bacon and stuff like that healthy? I`m excited. Tell me.
WHITE: Well, you know, we also believe in a small, 10 percent cheat zone, you know? And, you know, some really -- we use soy butter, normally. So, it`s a little healthier for you.
CROW: We have substitutes in the book for those --
WHITE: Some substitutes, you know, some of the vegan recipes actually have substitutes that are -- you can use meat you wanted to. You can use, you know, real dairy, versus, you know, soy dairy. So, yes, a little bit of bacon sometimes is not bad, a little pat of margarine sometimes is not bad.
BARR: I`m thrilled that you`re saying stuff like that because nobody can live there whole life without eating butter again. It`s such a self- punishing thing. People say, if you`re going to be healthy, never have anything that tastes good. So, I`m really -- I think it`s great.
CROW: To think that everything is hard.
BARR: Yes.
WHITE: We`re trying to make healthy food taste good, make it fun, and not boring and bland, you know? You can`t eat 100 percent healthy all the time, which is kind of our outlook in the book there.
BARR: How about eating local and organic? Let`s talk about that for a minute.
WHITE: We try to do that as much as possible, especially on the road. Try to device a menu just based on what`s fresh. You know, you go to the market that day, see what`s --
CROW: You can wake up in any given city and have to go out and shop there. Sometimes, it means shopping at Wal-Mart, which is actually the biggest carrier of organic I think now. I might be wrong.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: -- twice a day.
CROW: I did not say it`s better, I think.
WHITE: Yes.
BARR: But I mean, eating local is really -- it`s really, really important. I mean, you don`t want your lettuce brought in from Brazil.
WHITE: Exactly. It`s more accessible these days. You know, the CSA, the community supported agriculture, you know, is growing. It`s a lot easier. And you`re supporting, you know, your local economy and supporting your farmers as well.
BARR: And, quickly, what about eating in season. People like -- this is very important, too, for being healthy because people want to get like oranges in, you know, January and it`s just not right.
WHITE: Yes. Tomatoes are coming, you know, from South America and they`re really tomato when they`re picked, and they pump methane gas on them to turn them green when they hit the grocery store. You`re not really eating tomatoes.
BARR: It`s so important to talk about that. And, of course, you know, do you think that eating bad things causes cancer?
WHITE: Definitely. Some of the organic foods that we try to push, you know, called the dirty dozen, apples, and your lettuces, your pears and celery, always want to go organic with those because some the pesticides and chemicals they used definitely have an effect on your body. There`s no doubt about it.
BARR: Well, you guys have a really good and holistic view of food, which I think is fantastic. I made one of your dishes in here.
I can`t say it right. Quinoa.
WHITE: Quinoa
BARR: Quinoa Rider. But now, Quinoa and it was delicious. My boyfriend loved it, too. It was fantastic.
And then today, in "The New York Times," it has a whole article about Quinoa and how, like, you know, it`s a protein and now it`s like, you know, commodities, the prices are kind of driving. So, poor people, it used to be their staple food, they`re finding it hard to afford that.
CROW: Not a good reason not to use it, though.
BARR: Right.
CROW: But sometimes, these things, you have to figure out a way to adjust.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: Well, we hope it will, but it`s hard to be holistic, isn`t it?
CROW: It`s hard. But, you know -- I have an almost 4-year-old. We`re speaking about this off-camera. And to get your children to eat healthy, something like Quinoa is an amazing tool because every kid loves pasta, and it`s a pasta that is not gluten. It has lots of protein in it and --
BARR: What about mac nuts? I got to get that in real quick. You know, grilled mac nuts over in Hawaii. They`re saying mat nut oil is better than olive oil, any other oil.
WHITE: No cholesterol.
(CROSSTALK)
WHITE: The only thing it`s cooking with and I wouldn`t cook so much on medium to high heat, because it has a really low smoke heat, which gets sometimes caused carcinogens.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: I burn everything.
WHITE: -- flavoring and all that.
CROW: Careful cooking in that.
WHITE: That`s all we can use actually.
BARR: I love you for saying that. I love the mac nut.
Thank you, Sheryl. Her new book is called "If It Makes You Healthy" and we`ll be back in a moment. Thank you.
A.J HAMMER, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Attack on the teen moms. Brand new outrage today after a teen mom stars caught on tape brutally attacking another teen girl. At 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific here on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BARR: American student Amanda Knox was back in an Italian courtroom this weekend, appealing her murder conviction. Here now to talk about the whole latest in the Knox case is Jane Velez-Mitchell, host of "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL" on HLN.
Hi, Jane Velez-Mitchell.
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, HOST, "ISSUES WITH JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL: Roseanne, great to see you.
BARR: Great to see you, too.
Do you think she did it, Amanda?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: No, I think this is a horrific case. I think that this is a horrific case. This girl has been behind bars now for 3 1/2 years. She could spend 26 years behind bars.
But the great news is: on her appeal, one of the key witnesses is totally falling apart on the stand. This is a homeless guy who claims he saw Amanda and her boyfriend talking intensely near the crime scene on the night that this British student, Meredith Kercher, was murdered. Well, on appeal, he has given the wrong dates. He`s saying he knows he saw them because all the young people were wearing these masks going to and from the clubs because it was Halloween.
Well, she wasn`t murdered on Halloween. She was murdered on the day after Halloween. We all know you don`t wear costumes on the day after Halloween.
BARR: Well, some do.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: But, yes, I mean, this guy -- this is a good break for her that he`s coming forward now and going I didn`t know what day it was and I was all messed up on heroin. Plus, this same guy has been the prosecutorial witness in the host of a number of other murder case, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: This is what makes so suspicious and really scary. It`s an indictment of the Italian criminal justice system. This guy is a homeless drug addict who admits he was high at the time and apparently, prosecutors trot him out every time they need an "eyewitness" to bolster a theory of a case me has been a key witness in several murder cases.
So, how many innocent people, Roseanne, are sitting in jail in Italy because of this homeless drug addict?
BARR: I`ll tell you what I think, Jane -- I think he killed them all.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes.
(LAUGHTER)
BARR: I`m serious. How many murders is one guy going to witness?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Yes, and the defense has been saying for three and a half years, hey, this guy is unreliable. Thank God there`s this appeal, which is really like a whole new trial because I got to say -- I think the prosecutor had it out for Amanda Knox from the beginning.
BARR: Tat she`s like a rich American. That`s how they think, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Do you know that most of jurors on the day of the verdict, the day they convicted her, they wore the colors of the Italian flag into court? And when she was convicted, cheers erupted and there were all sorts of cheering because this had really become a strain in the relations between Italy and the United States as Americans --
BARR: So, they`re treating it like it`s a soccer match or something, right?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: You got it right, exactly. And this prosecutor -- he is, well, a piece of work. First of all, he abused his office in a high- profile case in the past and he`s known for having an overactive imagination and consulting with bloggers who have conspiracy theories. And he came up with this idea after a blogger suggested it that she was the mastermind of a drug-fuelled sex game on that night and that they had Meredith, this British student, on her knees, and they were engaged in all sorts of satanic sexual rituals with drugs.
Where is any evidence on this?
BARR: They say there isn`t any DNA evidence at all or any kind of evidence.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: The only thing they have is knife which they didn`t find at the crime scene, which they found at the apartment of the boyfriend and it has Amanda`s DNA on the handle. Well, it`s her boyfriend`s apartment. So, yes, she might have DNA on the handle.
And they are going to do independent testing now on that minuscule amount of DNA.
BARR: It`s such a miscarriage of justice. I mean, you kind of hope that it -- you know, is overturned or at least looked more closely at. Have they even looked at anybody else?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Well, they`ve got this third guy who has already been convicted who was doing time, and the prosecutor said he was also involved in the sex game. But really it is -- it`s a stain on the Italian criminal justice system. When I go to Italy, I`m going to be a very, very good girl because I wouldn`t want to be caught up in anything given that they created a 23-minute video, reconstruction of their theory of the crime that is not based on anything.
It looks like a sexually charged video game that they showed to the jurors who were not --
BARR: They probably got their prime minister that, Berlusconi guy --
(LAUGHTER)
VELEZ-MITCHELL: He makes a cameo appearance probably.
BARR: It is a crazy country. I don`t want to go into too long a story, but I got like way laid there once at the airport because somebody said I had drugs in my suitcase -- somebody that I used to be married to.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Ooh!
BARR: So, I got pulled in and they had all these armed soldiers, they went through all my -- they went through all my stuff and, of course --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did they frisk you?
BARR: They did everything, went in the bathroom with me to look at -- they did, like I was a big -- I`m on a sitcom.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Did you enjoy it?
(LAUGHTER)
BARR: No, I did not. I said I`m never coming back here no matter how damn good your food is you bunch of --
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I love Italy, but I wouldn`t want to be arrested there, that`s for sure.
BARR: So, you think that their guy did it?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: I don`t know who did it. It`s a very strange case. You have to realize, Amanda didn`t do herself any favors.
BARR: No.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: She was apparently cart-wheeling after police started interrogating her and behaving oddly. But she was a young college student. I certainly behaved in an odd way when I was in my 20s, I wasn`t mature. And so, why are we assuming --
BARR: Not me, I had five kids in my 20s. I waited until my 40s to go nuts.
But anyway, thanks, Jane. Thank you.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Thank you so much.
BARR: You know, I never missed you, never missed Joy, never missed Nancy every night.
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Love it.
BARR: Be sure to tune in tomorrow when I sit down with my good friend Michael Moore.
And before I go, Geraldine Ferraro died this weekend. She was the first female vice presidential candidate, running with Walter Mondale in 1984. I voted for her. She helped make it possible for women like Hillary Clinton to run for high office and, of course, she also made it possible for people like Sarah Palin to run but whatever.
Anyway, I`m thinking of actually running for presidency of the United States as well as prime minister of Israel, it`s a twofer.
And I would like to give a shout-out to Geraldine Ferraro because we need more women like her. Good night, everybody.
END
