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Joy Behar Page

Birther Battle Continues; Interview With Dr. Phil

Aired April 28, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOY BEHAR, HOST: Dr. Phil is here today. He`s going to help me create a psychological profile for members of the birther movement. You know, I may not be a licensed therapist, but I know a thing or two about psychology myself. I really do. And after months of critical and exhaustive analysis and weeks of studying various forms of psychopathology including Freud`s theory of transference and its role in the therapeutic process I have finally come to a diagnosis of the birthers. They`re nuts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, President Obama finally releases his birth certificate. And Donald Trump is claiming victory. Will the birther movement and Trump finally back off or is there more to come?

Then, Dr. Phil is here to talk about everything from the royal wedding, to the psychology of cheating, to Oprah`s final show.

Plus, after the royal wedding is over, some big questions remain. Can Prince William save the monarchy? And where does Kate fit into that equation? That and more starting right now.

BEHAR: President Obama released his birth certificate, proving Donald Trump wrong. Yet Trump still claims victory. Can you believe it? Can you believe this?

You know, next time I lose an Emmy award I`m going to run up on stage and give an acceptance speech. That`s right. That`s what I`m going to do. I don`t care if it`s true or not.

So the birth certificate should end the controversy, right? Wrong. The birthers aren`t buying its validity and Trump is now being called racist for questioning the President`s academic record. With me to discuss are television hosts Donny Deutsch and professor of anthropology and education at Columbia University, Marc Lamont Hill. Guys, is it over, Donald, for Trump.

DONNY DEUTSCH, TV HOST: First of all, I like that you have a smart guy and a dumb guy. It`s very important, you know. There`s usually a Pulitzer Prize winner and a professor -- before we get to the professor -- no, it`s not over for him. I mean this birther --

BEHAR: It`s not over for Trump?

DEUTSCH: No, it`s not because for a few reasons. For one the birther issue is a disgusting issue. I know Trump. And I`m friendly with Trump and I said to him I don`t know what you`re doing with this issue, you should be coming up obviously about the deficit, economy, there is a place for you. But he got a hold of this thing.

No, because 45 percent of Republicans before this came out, not Tea Partiers, Republicans, thought that this President was not born in this country. So you know what will happen now? Maybe it will be 40 percent, but not 45 percent.

BEHAR: Of Republicans or Tea Party --

DEUTSCH: Republicans, 45 percent in the last poll. This is before the birth certificate.

It`s not going to change anything. It`s not going to do anything. And Trump, you know, the master spinner, did he come out with -- I would have advised him to say is, you know what, I made a mistake. On this day - - no, but he came out I`m proud.

This is not going to affect him. The people that are buying into what Trump is selling are going to still buy. It makes no difference.

BEHAR: Do you think -- Mark, do you think that`s true?

MARC LAMONT HILL, CULTURAL ANTHROPOLOGIST, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY: Well, yes. I mean here`s the thing. Donald Trump didn`t come out here to prove the President wrong. He didn`t really come out to investigate any crime. What Donald Trump wanted to do was create a mess and draw attention to himself and that`s what he did. And he knows that there`s a sector of the American public that absolutely refuses to belief the legitimacy of President Obama.

You could have a videotape of him coming out of the womb with the state flag of Hawaii sticking out the back and they still wouldn`t believe that it`s true. There`s nothing you can do with those people and he knows it. He`s having fun.

DEUTSCH: Yes. My problem with the birther issue -- I`m not talking about Trump --

BEHAR: Yes, but wait a minute. Wait a minute. Now he`s coming out with the credentials about Harvard, Marc. How racist do you think that is?

LAMONT HILL: It`s fundamentally racist. And the irony is Donald Trump himself is a beneficiary of far more unearned privilege in terms of academics than President Obama is but this is what always happens. We`ll take the black guy who is magna cum laude from Harvard and say he`s not qualified and you`ll take the rich white guy who gets his kids into Wharton Business School even though they`re not qualified without absolutely any attention --

DEUTSCH: Actually, I will challenge. I have to challenge. I went to Wharton and his daughter Ivanka went to Wharton. She`s very, very qualified.

LAMONT HILL: I don`t mean her. But I`m saying as an example.

DEUTSCH: Listen to me. I`m going to take Donald because I`m going to give him the benefit of the doubt. But I will say this, that the birther issue is a racist issue. It is -- he`s not --

BEHAR: You think Trump is a racist?

DEUTSCH: I didn`t say that -- I`m not putting Trump in that. I`m saying when you bring up things and you say things like -- I`m talking about the Tea Partiers in general, is this guy born in this country and I want the constitution -- these are just black-and-white issues. There`s just no ands, ifs or buts about it.

And the reality is and I`d love to hear from the professor because he`s much more qualified as an African-American to talk about this than I am as a white guy, that when you go outside of New York City and L.A., a lot of this country is still back in the dark ages. And I don`t mean that as a metaphor. I mean it`s pathetic the racism that still exists in this country. To say it`s not there we don`t have our heads in the sand.

BEHAR: No one`s saying it`s not there but we don`t have to put up with this type of lying that goes on.

DEUTSCH: No.

BEHAR: Let me just show you something that Donald said. So we can see what the quote was. Go ahead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, ENTREPRENEUR, CEO TRUMP INTL: The word is, according to what I`ve read, that he was a terrible student when he went to Occidental. He then gets to Columbia. He then gets to Harvard. I heard at Columbia he wasn`t a very good student. He then gets to Harvard. How`d he get into Harvard if you`re not a good student?

Now, maybe that`s right. Or maybe it`s wrong. But I don`t know why he doesn`t release his records.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: He heard. He heard. He must have the ears of a bat, this guy.

DEUTSCH: I have to say and as I said, I like Donald and he`s my friend and we agree on a lot of things. Just this whole issue is wrong. It`s just wrong. And by the way --

LAMONT HILL: You need better friends, man. You need some better --

DEUTSCH: Look, I have to say, this issue he`s -- to suggest that is wrong. It`s repulsive. And by the way, even if his grades weren`t good, who cares? Who cares at this point?

BEHAR: It`s not true. Don`t even say that.

DEUTSCH: I don`t care whether he got As or Bs. And by the way, I`ll show you -- but it`s still barking on that issue.

BEHAR: Let me ask you something, Marc. Does that mean that everyone who went to Harvard who got -- who graduated magna cum laude or summa cum laude, like maybe Thomas Jefferson should be suspect? In other words, would the university give him that degree if it wasn`t true?

LAMONT HILL: Of course not.

BEHAR: He`s indicting Harvard.

DEUTSCH: What he`s suggesting --

LAMONT HILL: He`s saying he shouldn`t have gotten to Harvard in the first place.

DEUTSCH: What he`s suggesting is he got in because he was black and affirmative action. That`s the undertone.

LAMONT HILL: But the fact is most people who get into college on "affirmative action", quote unquote, aren`t black people. Athletes account for 20 percent of the people who get recruited. But I`m talking about on Ivy League campuses, 20 percent of those people who are recruited there are recruited for athletics, not for being black.

When you look at the people who get biggest beneficiaries it`s the people whose parents went to the school or parents --

DEUTSCH: I`ve got to tell you right there, look, I who went to Wharton, I have a lot of wealthy friends whose kids are getting in. The professor is right. I`m not going to mention any names. I`ve got a lot of friends whose kids have gotten into my alma mater --

BEHAR: White kids.

DEUTSCH: Yes. And that`s the world. And that doesn`t make the world a bad place. That`s just reality.

BEHAR: And yet nobody would question a white kid coming out of there. Nobody questioned Justice John Roberts who graduated from Harvard, for example.

LAMONT HILL: Exactly. If anything, Joy, it`s evidence that he did belong. If you can get into Harvard and graduate magna cum laude and be editor of the "Law Review" and you`re somehow unqualified, more power to you. And you can become president? I mean come on. It`s an absurd argument.

All this is about is Donald Trump attempting to gin up the tin foil hat wearing people in the American populace who happen to be racist. And there`s a lot of them left. And he knows what he can do with them because it draws attention and expands his brand.

BEHAR: Ok. Is this -- does this remind you of the swift boating that went on when John Kerry was running?

LAMONT HILL: It`s the same thing.

BEHAR: These people make up a lie, they continue the lie, perpetuate the lie and then people start to believe it. They destroyed Kerry.

DEUTSCH: Look, the reason people question why Obama at this point, because he had this trump card -- no pun intended -- to play for a long time. It was the first time the polls were shown to the independents because of Trump, who started to pay a little attention to this.

BEHAR: Don`t you think he`s dangerous? Trump is dangerous.

(CROSSTALK)

DEUTSCH: The good news we have in this world, there`s also a dark underbelly to it, is that we have this 24/7 over-mediaized society. So the truth -- I don`t know if the swift boat thing if it came out today where the Internet is today versus -- we`ve had dramatic differences even in the last six and eight and ten years. We self-correct fairly fast today.

So the good news is we are a democratic policing, self-policing media society at this point and it does backfire.

BEHAR: Ok. And you know what another point that was interesting this week was Lawrence O`Donnell on your network went after NBC tooth and nail, saying that they should fire Donald Trump. And he threw in the gauntlet. Is that a good idea?

DEUTSCH: No. Lawrence is a very bright guy.

BEHAR: He sure is.

LAMONT HILL: Brave guy, too.

DEUTSCH: But that`s absurd. Donald Trump has an entertainment show there and it`s a free speech country. He has a right to say what he wants to say, and people have a right to turn him off. I think Lawrence suggesting that NBC should take a political stand and then take him off the air is equally as absurd as what Trump is saying.

LAMONT HILL: I agree. I don`t think that he should be -- that Donald Trump should be taken off. In anything, those of us who watch Donald Trump`s show should stop watching it. That`s how we send a message.

DEUTSCH: That`s exactly it.

BEHAR: They`re saying that NBC is just watching and it`s doing nothing, you know.

LAMONT HILL: And that`s the point, joy. You can`t criticize them for -- you can`t criticize the media when you`re part of the media constructing the problem.

DEUTSCH: And if NBC all of a sudden basically comes out and says we`re voting blue state, that`s a little bit of a problem.

BEHAR: Yes or no. Is Donald becoming unhinged?

DEUTSCH: No. He`s exactly who he is.

BEHAR: Thanks guys very much. We`ll be right back.

Thank you, Marc. I`m sorry.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Dr. Phil drops by. And he`s got plenty of advice for Donald Trump as well as William and Kate.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Dr. Phil is not afraid of asking tough questions or giving his guests a dose of reality. And in two upcoming shows the famous TV host dives into the world of cheating, specifically the psychology of the other woman. The special is called "Inside the Mind of a Mistress." Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": You don`t think what you`re doing is wrong?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don`t.

MCGRAW: You like married men because you say you want permanent part- time.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I did not choose to find a married man.

(CROSSTALK)

MCGRAW: You worked with him and you knew he was married.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, I did.

MCGRAW: So what do you mean you didn`t mean to find a -- whoops, I hate it when my pants fall off around a married man?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No it`s like --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Dr. Phil, master of subtlety. Here now to talk about this and much, much more is Dr. Phil McGraw, the host of "Dr. Phil".

MCGRAW: How do I get in trouble and I just got here. I just got here.

BEHAR: Whoops. My pants accidentally fall off around a married man. That`s a funny line.

MCGRAW: Well, come on. I mean you know what struck me about these women?

BEHAR: What?

MCGRAW: And I actually like them.

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: Each of them had, you know, certainly redeeming qualities. But we do so much on infidelity and relationships that I deal with that our viewers wanted to say what are these women thinking? How do they justify it? What do they tell themselves?

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: And where do they get off getting involved with a married man? And I said, well, let`s ask them. And these were four women that said you know what, we`ll come, we`ll be honest, we`ll be candid. And we had one of the most really forthcoming discussions about this that I`ve had in all the years I`ve been doing television.

BEHAR: But that is chutzpah. I mean, here they are cheating with a married man, taking -- betraying the sisterhood, and going on television and saying hey, here I am.

MCGRAW: And do you know what struck me most about it?

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: Was they are so naive. They sit there and say, well, you know, he told me -- it`s so cliche -- he told me his wife didn`t understand him.

BEHAR: Oh God.

MCGRAW: And he said he was getting a divorce. He told me all of these things. And here they are five or six years later. I said come on. You`re a booty call. Are you kidding me?

Has he left his wife? No. He hasn`t left his wife. And you`re still sneaking around with him in the back of a Buick. Come on. I mean come on.

BEHAR: Let`s face it. The best sex is in the back of a Buick.

MCGRAW: Well, I`m going to take your --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Come on let`s not pretend here.

MCGRAW: Well, a big Chevy. I mean, I can never -- I can never afford a Buick back in the day. So --

BEHAR: Those bucket seats ruined my sex life. I`ll tell you right now.

MCGRAW: I`m sure they did.

BEHAR: But you know, what is it about these -- why do they want to always go out -- some women just only want to go out with a married guy. What is that about?

MCGRAW: Well, you know, I think a part of it is a fear of intimacy. Because it`s like ok, I know that I can`t have him, I know that I -- I`m not going to be called on to make a full-time commitment.

I`m a -- I`m a big fan of Air Supply. And they -- they wrote a song one time and had a line in it that said "the best part of love is the thinnest slice." And think about that --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Oh. It sounds like a pizza commercial.

MCGRAW: Yes, "the best part of love is the thinnest slice". It`s fun if you go over and just kind of play house for the night --

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: -- or you go out like you`re on a date. But they don`t have to do his socks, pick up his dirty laundry.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That`s right.

MCGRAW: -- figure out how to pay the electric bill, or put up with him when he starts making strange noises and things. So it`s a lot easier -- it`s a lot easier if you just go do the fun part and not get into the reality of it.

BEHAR: What about guilt? Do they feel guilt? It`s a natural thing to feel guilt.

MCGRAW: You know, actually, some of them did.

BEHAR: Oh.

MCGRAW: Actually some of them -- yes they really said, you know, as I look at this -- because we did two parts to this because it got so involved. We brought in some women that had been cheated on. Their husbands had gotten involved with the other women. And we let them talk to them about here`s what this did to my family. Here`s what I had to explain to my children. This is how it changed my life. So don`t tell yourself that this is a victimless crime.

BEHAR: Right.

MCGRAW: And don`t say if I took care of my man you wouldn`t be involved. They explained all of that. It was -- it was an intelligent discussion.

BEHAR: Let`s watch a clip. I like that.

MCGRAW: All right, let`s see it.

BEHAR: Let`s see that. About the mistresses that are being confronted by the wives. Right? Let`s see.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCGRAW: Look at her and finish this sentence for me. You don`t have the right --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You don`t have the right to destroy somebody`s family and somebody`s life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: It is -- it is not a victimless crime because there are children. It`s really hard for a wife to compete against a mistress for the reasons you just said.

MCGRAW: Well, of course. I mean, you -- you go see the other woman and she`s got to deal with you two, three hours a week. You know?

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: So she can get all fluffed up and be charming and you can be charming. That`s not what life is really all about. And it`s unfair to compare those two. I mean it`s just -- it`s simply unfair.

BEHAR: They sometimes work out. I mean, I`m thinking of Angelina Jolie and Brad Pitt. Wasn`t he married to Jennifer Aniston and he was having a thing with Angelina? They are still together.

MCGRAW: My pop IQ`s about four. So you`re going to have to tell me.

BEHAR: Well, I -- I`m telling you.

MCGRAW: Were they married?

BEHAR: No, wasn`t he married to Jennifer Aniston? Yes.

MCGRAW: I knew they weren`t, I don`t.

BEHAR: And then he was in a movie "Mr. and Mrs. Smith" or something with Angelina.

MCGRAW: Yes.

BEHAR: And then boom.

MCGRAW: How do you know all of this?

BEHAR: Because it`s my job, Dr. Phil. Pathetic as it sounds. I have to know all about these people.

MCGRAW: I did see "Mr. and Mrs. Smith."

BEHAR: Well, they were having a little thing going on.

MCGRAW: Yes, well, that was a very realistic movie.

But I think if -- if you really stop and think about it, if you`re going to be involved with a married man and you`re going to start a relationship, how`s it going to work? Because you know if he`ll do it with you he`ll do it to you.

BEHAR: That`s right, baby.

MCGRAW: Yes you know, because you know what he`s capable of. And every time he goes to the store you`ve got to wonder if he`s got Susie Q around the corner, right?

BEHAR: Right.

Now, the other thing that`s going on right now is this royal wedding. What do you make of the fascination with this thing? I mean, it`s constant.

MCGRAW: Well, they say two billion people are going to watch the royal wedding; 167 of them are going to be men.

BEHAR: You think it`s only a female thing?

MCGRAW: Yes. Oh it`s got to be. I`m going to watch it because Robin said, "Are you going to watch the wedding with me?" Well, I said, "No, thank you." And she said, "You`re watching the wedding with me." I said, "Why?"

And she said, look, how many games have I watched with you? How many Cowboy games and Maverick games, baseball games. You`re watching the damn wedding with me. You are waking up and we`re watching this wedding. So --

BEHAR: Is it vicarious, like when you`re watching porn or the Food Channel?

MCGRAW: Well, I wouldn`t know.

BEHAR: Is that what it`s about like a vicarious --

MCGRAW: I wouldn`t know. Is that why you watch porn?

BEHAR: Well, no, I don`t watch porn particularly. Oh please, that ship has sailed.

MCGRAW: Yes.

BEHAR: But -- but the Food Network, now you`re talking my language.

MCGRAW: She`s -- ok now the Food Network. No, I do think people live vicariously through it. And I think it`s great. I mean, think about it. I grew up with three sisters, and when we were in grade school and junior high they were in their bedrooms practicing and role-playing their wedding. They`d get a bath towel and pretend it was a veil.

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: And so here is one you can watch with a glass coach and 12 white horses and some woman that -- that is not royalty marries in and becomes a princess. It`s a dream.

BEHAR: It`s a dream.

MCGRAW: I mean come on.

BEHAR: What do you think about Charles? What do you think he`s going through right now, Prince Charles? Is he nervous that this kid is going to one-up him and become king before he ever sees that throne?

MCGRAW: Yes I don`t know. But I -- it seems to me that they really actually have a very healthy relationship from what I`ve seen. Of course, what do we know about what happens?

BEHAR: Who? Charles and Camilla?

MCGRAW: No. Charles and --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And his son.

MCGRAW: -- yes and his son.

BEHAR: Oh yes.

MCGRAW: I think they have a great relationship.

BEHAR: Right now. Until William`s king.

MCGRAW: And he`s got to be happy with him. So you think he`s going to leapfrog him and become king?

BEHAR: I think so.

MCGRAW: And so --

BEHAR: I have a feeling that could happen because nobody likes Charles anymore.

MCGRAW: Really?

BEHAR: Ever since he cheated on Diana and went over with the other one.

MCGRAW: Well, there you go.

BEHAR: Yes.

MCGRAW: There you go. But what do you think of this bride-to-be? This --

BEHAR: She`s lovely. She`s lovely. I wish them all the best.

MCGRAW: She seems very classy to me; handled herself really well.

BEHAR: The royal family, they`re a bunch of lame-os. But she`s great.

MCGRAW: Yes.

BEHAR: More with Dr. Phil on the way.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with the host of "Dr. Phil", Dr. Phil McGraw.

Let`s talk about this birther issue that`s going on constantly. I mean we now have been around the block several times with this thing. President Obama has shown everybody his actual paper birth certificate --

MCGRAW: Do you think he should have done that?

BEHAR: Well, I think that he had to eventually because the big lie was taking hold because you know, anything -- people can believe anything.

MCGRAW: Well, one of the problems, I think, is you don`t want to kowtow but on the other hand a lie unchallenged becomes the truth. I mean people will start saying show the damn paper, you know.

BEHAR: Right.

MCGRAW: I mean if you`ve got it, show it. But now it`s his grades. Everybody said oh, he didn`t make the right grades, he got in when he shouldn`t have, et cetera, et cetera.

BEHAR: Well, some people think that`s a racist remark because --

MCGRAW: Right.

BEHAR: -- it assumes that affirmative action. Meanwhile, the guy, our President, was the editor of the Harvard Law Review. I don`t think you get that with affirmative action.

MCGRAW: Yes. I mean come on, if you`re going to try to sell that he`s a dummy, that isn`t happening.

BEHAR: Right. It`s like -- what, are they going to exhume his mother now and they put her on the stand? I mean come on. These people are crazy. Do you agree?

MCGRAW: Well, there gets to be a point of obsession and ridiculousness. And I think that -- the thing that I`m concerned about, and I think Obama did say the right thing about this. We have much more pressing issues to be dealing with right now than investing energy in this kind of thing.

If it`s not true and it`s not in my view then come on, get off it, move on, let`s talk about something that matters.

BEHAR: Do you know this woman Orly Taitz, she`s one of the people who`s propagating these lies?

MCGRAW: You know, I don`t. I don`t know her.

BEHAR: To me she`s certifiable.

MCGRAW: Yes.

BEHAR: I think she belongs in the booby hatch.

MCGRAW: You think she`s a whack-a-doodle?

BEHAR: She`s a total whack-a-doodle.

MCGRAW: Yes, but I don`t know her. I don`t know her, so that`s not my diagnosis. But I got the feeling you do.

BEHAR: I mean, you know, I think that mental illness is a serious issue.

MCGRAW: It is.

BEHAR: I don`t take it lightly. And I believe a lot of people are untreated or undiagnosed in this country. You know that. They`re walking around like the walking wounded.

MCGRAW: Of course a lot of them don`t realize -- I have to tell you something. And I spent many, many years in private practice. And there were times that I dealt with depressed people who never knew they were depressed until they weren`t. They spent their whole life living in this way. And then when they would present for some other reason like a marital issue and then you say, you know, by the way, I think you`re depressed, we need to help you with that, through medication or therapy or whatever. And then they would go wow. Gosh. All of a sudden the sky`s blue. And I`m hearing music. I hear the music when it plays. I laugh more. I never realized I really had a problem.

People don`t know that which is one of the reasons --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: It`s like taking Gas X when you have heartburn.

MCGRAW: Yes.

BEHAR: It`s like all of a sudden you don`t have that pain anymore in your chest.

MCGRAW: I have absolutely nothing to say to that. Gas X?

BEHAR: Yes. Gas X. You know about that?

MCGRAW: Well, I do now.

BEHAR: So far you don`t know Brad and Angelina Jolie; you don`t know Orly Taitz, and you don`t know Gas X.

MCGRAW: I do know Angelina Jolie. I could pick her out of a crowd. No problem. I just didn`t know whether she was married to somebody or not.

BEHAR: The other one was married, Jennifer Aniston. And she stole the husband.

MCGRAW: But wasn`t Angelina with Billy Bob Thornton?

BEHAR: That`s when she got the tattoo and drank his blood or something.

MCGRAW: You know, if I`d known we were going to talk about all this, I would have been as nervous as a cow with a buck-toothed calf. I`ll tell you.

BEHAR: On that note I will say thank you for coming on. And be sure to tune in Tuesday and Wednesday when Dr. Phil goes inside the mind of a mistress, a two-part series. Check your local listings.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Well, that didn`t take long. Just one day after Katie Couric officially announced she was stepping down from her anchor post at CBS, Sarah Palin mocked her departure in a Fox News interview. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SARAH PALIN, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: Right, right, right. I think I read that in a newspaper. One of many newspapers that I read online. Yes, and I hear that she wants to now engage in more multidimensional story telling, versus I guess just the straight-on read into the Teleprompter screen storytelling. So more power to her. I wish her well with her multidimensional storytelling.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: You know, I give Sarah Palin credit. She`s out of favor. She`s out of the limelight. And then suddenly, she`s back like jock itch, and just as snarky as ever.

Here with me to discuss this and other stories in the news are comedian Judy Gold. Josh Gad, actor and star of the great Broadway musical "Book of Mormon." And Rachel Sklar, editor at large for mediaite.com. Judy.

JUDY GOLD, COMEDIAN: Yes. Joy?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: She is still holding a grudge, Sarah Palin.

GOLD: What is it, three years ago?

BEHAR: Let it go, Sarah.

GOLD: I mean, she probably read it in "Cricket" or the "Daily Reader" that Katie was --

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: What I don`t understand is we haven`t seen -- we haven`t heard from Sarah in a while, and then she comes back with something really thoughtful and intelligent. So that`s great.

BEHAR: But she slams her for reading a Teleprompter. Isn`t that better than reading the notes off your hand?

GOLD: Exactly.

BEHAR: And she seems to be holding--

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Sarah Palin was a newscaster. She was a sportscaster who read -- what, is she supposed to memorize the news?

BEHAR: I don`t know.

(CROSSTALK)

RACHEL SKLAR, EDITOR AT LARGE, MEDIAITE.COM: I think it`s pretty funny that Sarah Palin was calling attention to the thing about which she was fully humiliated by Katie Couric. It was like, yes, nice try, but--

(CROSSTALK)

JOSH GAD, ACTOR: She essentially was mocking herself by saying, I read it --

(CROSSTALK)

SKLAR: Unintentionally. That`s the thing.

GAD: On the Internet. And I read newspapers digitally. And you`re like no, you don`t read anything, sweetie.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, I think that she learned from being on "Saturday Night Live" that the way to reconstruct your image is to take the joke on yourself. But all she`s doing is reminding us that she`s illiterate. OK. Next up --

(LAUGHTER)

GAD: I miss her anti-Semitic jokes so much.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Gwyneth Paltrow. I love this story. It`s my favorite--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Gwyneth Paltrow shocked viewers when she called her deceased grandma a not-so-nice name on "Chelsea" lately. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We had a grandmother named Muti (ph) and she would -- I guess muti means mom in German -- and my muti was a real bitch.

GWYNETH PALTROW: My muti was a real [EXPLETIVE DELETED]. She tried to poison my mother against me. But it didn`t work, because I have a great mother. She was just tough. She was tough.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Boy, that old beotch must be rolling in her grave.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Judy, would you talk about your nana like that?

GOLD: No, not at all. I would never use that word.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: What about you two? Did you have nice nanas?

GAD: Yes. And I don`t know what`s worse, calling your nana that or your child Apple. I mean, I think --

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Exactly.

GAD: I think that there`s something in the household that`s making her call everybody kind of absurd names. But no, my grandmother was wonderful, and she was a Holocaust survivor. God bless her.

BEHAR: Oh. Thanks for bringing us down, Josh.

GAD: Yes, I know.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: We`re trying to have a few laughs here and he brings in the Holocaust. You know what I`m saying, Josh?

(CROSSTALK)

SKLAR: I don`t know why people don`t like her. Like no matter what she does, I feel like she`s been trying to make herself cool lately, and that might have been --

BEHAR: Why?

SKLAR: I don`t know. Because people don`t like "Goop." She--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What`s "Goop?"

SKLAR: "Goop" is her newsletter. Where she imparts the secrets to her life and living like Gwyneth, essentially.

BEHAR: And people don`t like her for that.

SKLAR: People don`t like her for it seems anything.

GAD: I didn`t even know about "Goop," and I suddenly don`t like her because of it.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I don`t like--

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Very blunt.

BEHAR: What does she say on "Goop?"

SKLAR: I think it`s like this is how you make my favorite macrobiotic yoga diet.

GOLD: She talks about recipes and her life.

(CROSSTALK)

GAD: She calls her grandfather a bastard in one of the articles.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Did she call Martha Stewart the c word? OK.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: All right. Let`s do another story. In an episode of "Khloe and Lamar," Khloe Kardashian`s mom Kris said that her daughter is too fat and is jeopardizing a lucrative Quicktrim endorsement deal. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRIS KARDASHIAN: Khloe, I feel like first of all you don`t care. And it`s really very, very upsetting to me because I work so hard at creating what I feel like is a great deal for you girls, and then you`re not pulling your end of the weight here.

KHLOE KARDASHIAN: What are you trying to say exactly?

KRIS KARDASHIAN: I`m trying to say that I feel like you could not chat about how many cookies you`re eating in between meals.

KHLOE KARDASHIAN: To tell me that I`m ruing an entire brand because of my weight gain, like that makes me feel like [EXPLETIVE DELETED].

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: You know, Kris should be thankful Gwyneth Paltrow`s not her granddaughter.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: So is this why, Rachel, your mother should never be your manager? I`ve seen this movie before and it`s not good.

SKLAR: You know, I feel like everybody spends too much time thinking about the Kardashians generally. But yes, the short answer is yes. You know, your mother should not be your manager. And maybe she should have the cookies if she`s doing something for a diet company. I don`t know. I mean, but generally speaking, yes, I think Gwyneth summed it all up.

GOLD: Well, she`s trying to get pregnant, so she doesn`t want to get really thin.

BEHAR: Who, the mother?

GOLD: No, the --

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: The mother was going to be in the "New England Journal of Medicine" trying to get pregnant.

GAD: Because if she`s ruining possible endorsement brands at her weight, I`m probably ruining lives at mine.

(LAUGHTER)

GAD: My mother`s going to have to call me and be like, you know, after watching the Kardashians, I have to talk to you.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: But if they`re worried about the branding and they`re saying she`s too fat, what about Kim Kardashian, who made a sex tape? Is that the good branding?

SKLAR: That`s the entire brand. The entire brand is based on that.

BEHAR: Yes, right.

SKLAR: Would there be a Kardashian empire without that?

GAD: The brand is sheepskin condoms, essentially, right now. Kardashian sheepskin condoms.

SKLAR: You would be an awesome rep for the "Goop" newsletter.

GAD: I got to read "Goop," but I hate Gwyneth so much, I can`t bring myself to do it.

GOLD: You really hate her?

GAD: No. I have nothing against her. I`m just jumping on the bandwagon.

BEHAR: We love Gwyneth now.

(CROSSTALK)

GOLD: Anyone who uses the c word, I`m in (ph).

BEHAR: Wait a second, against your nana. That takes balls.

GOLD: I know.

GAD: Can you imagine what she called her great grandma?

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I`m wondering what her mother Blythe Danner thinks about all this.

GOLD: It`s Blythe Danner`s mother.

GAD: Yeah, I know.

BEHAR: It`s not the Jewish side. It`s the WASPy side.

GOLD: You notice how the Jewish grandmother was nice.

BEHAR: Not necessarily.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Maybe she was. OK, do we have time for another story? OK. Finally, the State Department is proposing a slew of new questions for the form required to obtain a U.S. passport, including, get this, are you circumcised? And then you have to show proof to Donald Trump.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: So why are they doing this, Josh, do you think?

GAD: Well, I think, you know, a lot of times people can hide guns and other weaponry under that foreskin, and I think that they`re deeply concerned about it.

BEHAR: What could you smuggle in there?

(LAUGHTER)

SKLAR: Well, they have this thing against liquids. So --

GAD: Do they?

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: I have a couple of items under my foreskin right now.

BEHAR: Don`t you think these are too intrusive, these questions? Come on, to ask if you`re circumcised? Is it about--

GOLD: Well, who is circumcised? Muslims and Jews, they are circumcised.

BEHAR: So therefore?

GOLD: It`s a little racial profiling, if you ask me. I don`t know. I mean, they said that they were asking them all these questions because they don`t have birth certificates. Who was in the room when you were born? Who remembers who was in the room when they were born?

BEHAR: No one has that.

GOLD: Exactly.

BEHAR: Who asked for that?

GOLD: That`s one of the questions.

BEHAR: Who was in the room when you were born?

GOLD: Yes.

GAD: Who was in the room. They want your mohel`s (ph) name. They want to know--

GOLD: If you get along with your grandmother. That`s one of the questions.

BEHAR: It`s penile profiling. And I think it`s wrong.

(LAUGHTER)

SKLAR: It would save a lot of women a lot of time. That`s all I`m saying.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You know, there is a controversy -- good one, Ray. There`s a lot of controversy now about circumcising babies. I mean, my grandson, they asked do you want to -- no one ever asked that in the old days. They asked my daughter if she wanted to --

SKLAR: Do we know that? Who was in the room?

BEHAR: What do you mean?

SKLAR: To answer that question, do we know that?

BEHAR: She was in the room. My daughter was in the room.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: Yeah, that circumcision, a lot of people don`t want to do it anymore. They think it`s cruel to the baby. Because, you know, my kids totally remember the circumcision. They wake up every morning and go, I can`t believe you did that to me! I mean, who remembers--

(CROSSTALK)

GAD: Well, Jews have a tradition of videotaping it. So unfortunately even though I forgot it, I`ve been forced to sit down and watch the damn tape over and over again.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: Have you really?

GAD: I`m like, why are we watching this?

SKLAR: You really watched your own circumcision?

(CROSSTALK)

GAD: This is not a recital video. This is bloodshed at a very early age coming from a very personal part of my body.

SKLAR: I never heard of anybody watching their own circumcision video. That`s fabulous.

GAD: Are you calling my mom the c word?

(LAUGHTER)

SKLAR: I may be.

BEHAR: Judy, what did you do with your boys?

GOLD: I had a bris.

BEHAR: Of course, because you`re very Jewish.

GOLD: Right.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You know how Judy spells her name had in her e-mails? j-e-w- d-y.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: And I also happen to be circumcised as well.

BEHAR: What did you do with the foreskin? Did you make a little toaster cozy?

GOLD: Oh, we did a whole collage.

BEHAR: What did I call it, a toaster cozy?

(CROSSTALK)

SKLAR: This is not how I grew up Jewish, but--

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, you did, right, Josh?

GAD: I did grow up Jewish.

GOLD: Oh, we have an all-Jew panel.

BEHAR: Yes, and it`s delightful.

SKLAR: Shabbat shalom.

BEHAR: And everyone thinks I`m Jewish, so there we go.

All right, thank you, guys. And you know what, you can see Josh Gad in "The Book of Mormon" if you can get tickets on Broadway. It`s the best thing going on. We`ll be right back.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Gilbert, how`d it go?

GILBERT GOTTFRIED: Well, it was a little touch and go. I did pull a groin muscle. Although that had nothing to do with this show. I pulled it last night. I received a Sports Illustrated calendar in the mail. So that has nothing to do with the show. I guess the show went good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: The royal wedding is almost upon us. Everything is in place. The food is being cooked. The DJ is setting up. And the queen is frowning.

Here to talk about all the last-minute wedding gossip are Lisa Vanderpump, co-star of the "Real Housewives of Beverly Hills" and a royals watcher. And Nikki Pennie, CNN contributor and former Kate Middleton stylist, who is coming to us from London. Welcome to the show, ladies.

Nikki, let me start with you. You are Kate`s former stylist. Why aren`t you her stylist anymore?

NIKKIE PENNIE, KATE MIDDLETON`S FORMER STYLIST: Well, Kate is very specific about what she likes, Joy. But Joy, I want to say hi from London. Whoo!

(CHEERS)

BEHAR: Now, wait. Let me give the queen`s wave.

(CROSSTALK)

PENNIE: It`s crazy tonight. Everyone is so excited for tomorrow. We all cannot wait. And we cannot wait to see what Kate`s going to wear.

BEHAR: What is she going to wear?

(CHEERS)

BEHAR: OK. Well, you know Kate`s style. You know her style. And so what do you think the dress is going to look like? We can`t wait to see the dress.

PENNIE: You know what, Joy, the dress is going to be classically beautiful, very understated. Whatever she`s going to be wearing tomorrow, she is going to be the most amazing princess on the planet. And you know what? This is the biggest kept secret ever.

(CHEERS)

PENNIE: And the dress actually -- the dress actually just arrived at the Goring Hotel where Kate is staying tonight. The dress is now there. We`re not going to know until tomorrow who the designer is. That`s the big question.

BEHAR: Well, let me ask you, do you think it will be see-through?

PENNIE: You know -- you know what? There`s so much speculation. It might be Jenny Packham (ph). It might be Stella McCartney. It might be Burberry. We just don`t know right now.

BEHAR: OK. All right. Let`s talk to -- let`s talk to somebody who`s here with me.

LINDA VANDERPUMP, CO-STAR, REAL HOUSEWIVES OF BEVERLY HILLS: I don`t think it`s going to be see-through.

BEHAR: I hope not either.

VANDERPUMP: God willing.

BEHAR: There was a recent UK poll that said that Prince William is the most popular royal right now.

VANDERPUMP: Right.

BEHAR: Why is that? Does it have anything to do with the fact that Charles is losing popularity?

VANDERPUMP: Well, he did screw it up a bit.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: How did he screw it up?

VANDERPUMP: Well, I think he went against the public, really. And I don`t think Camilla`s ever really kind of ever -- oh, she`s back.

BEHAR: No, she`s not. Go ahead.

VANDERPUMP: I don`t think he`s ever really kind of regained his popularity. But also I think when you saw the princes kind of trudging in that funeral procession, there was so much of an outpouring of grief that a lot of it was transferred into affection.

BEHAR: Into the children.

VANDERPUMP: Yes, absolutely. And I think the British public have been very supportive of the princes. And he`s done an exemplary job as a prince. He hasn`t put a foot wrong. Unlike his brother.

BEHAR: His brother.

VANDERPUMP: Naughty redheaded brother.

BEHAR: Let`s talk Harry for a second.

VANDERPUMP: Yes. He`s a naughty boy.

BEHAR: He`s a naughty boy. He showed up in that Nazi uniform.

VANDERPUMP: I know.

BEHAR: That really did him in.

VANDERPUMP: Yes. That really was absolutely ridiculous.

BEHAR: What do you think the queen said to him that night?

VANDERPUMP: I mean, tore him off a few strips.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I mean, that must have really pissed her off. Don`t you think?

VANDERPUMP: But he`s always had that attitude, William, but he said even on his 21st birthday, in an interview, you know, they said, do you want to be king? And he said it`s not want, this is my duty. So he`s kind of always taken that on board, that he`s kind of born and bred for the job.

BEHAR: Do you think they were like saying it to him when he was a toddler in his crib and then hung a mobile over him saying, you will be king, you will be king?

VANDERPUMP: Yes, absolutely.

BEHAR: How annoying is that for a poor child.

VANDERPUMP: No, I think he`s grown up with knowing the task. And also, he lost his hair, you know, pretty early, and much was made of that. So I think he needs to stick a crown on top of it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You think so? I think that`s true. And Camilla and Prince Andrew were the least popular.

VANDERPUMP: Yes. And the duchess of York.

BEHAR: Charles got a 19 percent popularity. Andrew -- oh, William got 78 percent.

VANDERPUMP: Right. Yes.

BEHAR: And Camilla is minus 9 percent.

VANDERPUMP: She got that high?

BEHAR: Why don`t people like Camilla?

VANDERPUMP: Oh, you know what? I just think it was so much to do with Princess Diana. I don`t think we ever recovered from it. And I think everybody always felt that she was largely responsible for the downfall of the marriage.

BEHAR: Well, how could -- I don`t know if that`s true. Do you think so?

VANDERPUMP: Yes, I do. I really do.

BEHAR: How could she -- he -- why blame her? Why not blame Prince Charles? Only 18 percent like him, it`s true. But why should she get more blame than he gets? After all, he was doing her, and he was writing her those dirty notes.

VANDERPUMP: Yes, that`s true, but she was equally kind of responsible. I mean, at the time, he was kind of off the market. A man will go and do what he wants. You know that. But I think she should have stepped back a bit.

BEHAR: Well, you know, the apple doesn`t fall far from the tree. According to my readings.

VANDERPUMP: Right.

BEHAR: Prince Philip is quite the hound dog. Or was. Now he`s on Viagra, so who cares.

VANDERPUMP: Yes, exactly.

BEHAR: But in his day, in his day, he was a hound dog, Prince Philip. A good-looking man.

VANDERPUMP: Yes. But they got married so young. I mean, that`s unbelievable, too, isn`t it, really? The queen fell in love with Prince Philip when he was -- when she was--

BEHAR: But did Philip fall in love with the queen?

VANDERPUMP: Well, it does not matter. The English, get your little butt over here and put a crown on it.

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: That`s interesting. I mean, you know, that`s true. I wouldn`t want to marry someone who didn`t love me. Would you?

VANDERPUMP: Well, you know--

BEHAR: I think that`s rough.

VANDERPUMP: I have been married 30 years.

BEHAR: You have been?

VANDERPUMP: Yes.

BEHAR: And is -- I think that William seems more accessible to the masses. How is he like Charles? Besides the fact -- oh, he`s different from Charles.

VANDERPUMP: He hasn`t got the big ears.

(CROSSTALK)

VANDERPUMP: Exactly.

BEHAR: Do they pin them back? Do you think they would have given him surgery if he had Charles`s ears?

VANDERPUMP: Well, I think he can tuck them under the crown. So it`s OK.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: We`ll have more on the royal wedding when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with my guests and we`re talking royal wedding. Nikki, the other day, Kate was seen shopping for her honeymoon, and she bought $100 dress. Is she a bargain hunter?

PENNIE: From Warehouse, Joy.

BEHAR: What?

PENNIE: She bought that dress, it was $100, from Warehouse, which is one of our biggest High Street (ph) stores in England.

BEHAR: Is she a bargain hunter or did she do that to make herself look like one of the people?

PENNIE: You know what, Joy, she is the people`s princess, and she loves to shop on the High Street, as we all do in England. It`s a massive part of our fashion. So it`s like Top Shop, French Connection, Reese (ph) Warehouse. They`re all big stores and we all love them. And it`s very much part of British culture. And she is a very down to earth, low-key girl. It`s not about how much an item costs. It`s about what looks good and what she feels comfortable in.

BEHAR: OK. You know, it`s interesting she calls her the people`s princess, Lisa. That was reserved for Diana.

VANDERPUMP: Yes.

BEHAR: I don`t know that that`s a good idea.

VANDERPUMP: Too early. No, I don`t like that, and I don`t like the way they`re comparing them so much. I think she`s her own person, she`s got to settle in. I think it`s ridiculous calling her the people`s princess.

BEHAR: They have to come up with something else. But Tony Blair is the one who came up with the people`s princess, and he`s not even invited.

VANDERPUMP: Yes, but he came up with a lot of other nonsense as well.

BEHAR: Why -- let me ask you -- maybe Nikki knows this. Why is Tony Blair not invited?

PENNIE: Tony Blair? That`s an interesting question. I really don`t know. The only person that can answer that for us is of course the palace and Tony himself.

VANDERPUMP: Well, we have to -- I think prince -- Dame Thatcher is invited, but she`s knight of the garter, so I think they`ve kind of -- and John Major.

BEHAR: But Mrs. Thatcher is not going. Is she ill?

VANDERPUMP: Baroness?

BEHAR: Baroness Thatcher?

PENNIE: Yes, I think--

BEHAR: When did she jump to baroness?

VANDERPUMP: Oh, yes.

BEHAR: She was Lady Thatcher last time I checked.

VANDERPUMP: Isn`t she baroness?

BEHAR: Now she`s baroness.

VANDERPUMP: Oh, yes, it keeps going off (inaudible).

BEHAR: It`s like the "Sound of Music." Baroness Thatcher. OK. Now, let me ask you both before we go, I only have 30 seconds. Nikki, do you think that William would jump -- leap frog over Charles to become king?

PENNIE: I mean, who knows. That`s another question that everyone`s speculating about now, too, here in London. And really, I mean, the only thing I`m looking forward to is tomorrow. It`s going to be a massive day for England and for the world. And it`s so nice to have something positive happening in the whole world right now, because there`s so much negativity going on.

BEHAR: That`s true. We`re going to have a lot of fun tomorrow on this show because we`re having a post-wedding party and everything. But do you think he will leap frog?

VANDERPUMP: Nope. It`s going to take an act of parliament. It`s not going to happen.

BEHAR: It`s not going to happen. OK, thank you very much, ladies. And be sure to tune in for my special royal wedding that I just mentioned, after party tomorrow night at 7 p.m. and 10 p.m. We`re on twice tomorrow. Good night, everybody.

END