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Joy Behar Page
Bill Maher Time; Inside the bin Laden Raid; Interview With Whoopi Goldberg
Aired May 03, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the one and only Bill Maher joins Joy with his take on the death of bin Laden and what it means for the President.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think we experienced the same sense of unity that prevailed on 9/11.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then, Joy gets the inside scoop on top secret intelligence that led the U.S. to bin Laden, and she`ll find out whether a waterboarding and other enhanced interrogation techniques actually helped.
Plus, Joy`s friend and "View" co-host, Whoopi Goldberg. is here to speak her mind on Donald Trump, birthers and Obama.
That and more, starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: More and more details are emerging on the killing of bin Laden. We`ll go over all the new juicy tidbits in a minute, but first I want to hear what my guest thinks about the death of the world`s most wanted terrorist and what it means for the Obama presidency.
Here with me now is the host of HBO`s "Real Time: Bill Maher". Hey Bill, it`s so good to talk to you again. I haven`t seen you in a long time.
BILL MAHER, HOST, "REAL TIME: BILL MAHER": I know. How are you doing?
BEHAR: I`m doing great. And I love your show. I watch you every week, and I really get irritated when they take -- put you on hiatus for such a long -- why do they do that to you?
MAHER: Well, they don`t anymore. We -- everybody gets a week, even you get a week off now and then but we`re on a whole different schedule. We`ve been on since January, almost the beginning of the year and I think we`ve only had a couple of breaks for a week at a time.
BEHAR: Yes.
MAHER: Yes. They finally figured it out.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s the best.
But let`s talk about the situation.
MAHER: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: Do you think that we can finally give credit to President Obama? Will the Republicans finally give credit?
MAHER: Of course not. Come on. We`re talking about the Republicans.
I mean this has got to eat at them because this is supposed to be what they`re good at. You know? Our little editorial this week is about, you know, if they`re the party of fiscal responsibility and national defense and they`re not really good at either, what are they bringing to the table? You know? And so, really, I just want to know.
And it`s not like I`m just asserting this. Bush, famously said six months after 9/11, "I don`t think that much about bin Laden, he`s not really on my mind anymore." Obama said in the campaign, "I`m going to go after bin Laden." He didn`t go after a vague war on terror, he said let`s focus on al Qaeda.
I mean, factually, this guy just has it better. Has it right. Did it better. You know, he personally rappelled down that helicopter and shot bin Laden in the eye like Mo Green.
BEHAR: I believe that. I believe it. How do you think the events of the week will impact the 2012 election?
MAHER: Well, I mean you -- you would think it would be a shoo-in but that`s, of course, what they said about Bush in 1991 when his ratings were sky-high from the Iraq war. So much can happen between now and then, but, you know, if America can`t give credit to our ninja president now, I don`t know when they can. You know, he just is obviously a very competent, multi-tasking ninja.
BEHAR: I know.
MAHER: He just seems to be -- he seems to be able to do things that the other side can`t. And isn`t that what you want in a president?
I mean, at the end of the day, the ideology should go out the window. It should be about efficiency and competency. And you know when I hear Donald Trump say he`s the worst president ever. Really? You know, got health care passed, stopped a depression from happening, you know, the economy, the shape it was in compared to where it is now, finally got this bin Laden monkey off our back, I just -- it`s just hatred. They`re just haters.
BEHAR: I mean you often say on your show how stupid you think the American public is. You often will say that.
MAHER: Yes, I do.
BEHAR: Yes, you do. But you know, you have to give them credit for one thing. They did elect Obama in the last election. So we`ll give them credit for that. Do you think they`ll do it again?
MAHER: Well, let`s remember that he was running against the ghost of Mrs. Muir. That had a lot to do with it. And the situation the country had been left in, I think any Democrat would have won. Let`s remember, he did not win the white vote.
BEHAR: No, that`s true.
MAHER: But yes, you know -- look. He`s a master politician. There is no doubt about it. Besides being such an effective leader, he knows how to play the political game. I`m one of the people on the left, Joy, you know this and you are too at times, I see you talk about him all the time. And you -- you`re pretty hard at him sometimes when you don`t think he`s doing the things that we would like to see the perfect liberal president do.
BEHAR: Yes.
MAHER: But given the situation he`s in, you know, I think he`s got a calculus in his mind that, you know, I have this much political capital. And when it gets up to here, I spend it. And when it`s down here, I don`t. And I think he knows that.
I think he knows exactly how much to spend and when he can do it and, you know, if I was betting my own money I would bet anything on his re- election because honestly at the end of the day, who are the Republicans putting up? Who do they have?
They can`t rely on Tim Pawlenty`s raw sex appeal forever.
BEHAR: Absolutely true.
You know, after the bin Laden news, Trump sent out a tweet and this is what it said. Don`t forget to watch Donald J. Trump`s Fabulous World of Golf tonight at 9:00 p.m. on the Golf Channel. Is this guy presidential or what? This is all he could say.
MAHER: You know, this Trump situation, it reminds me so much of the Charlie Sheen situation in that it`s a guy who came on the scene with this incredible swagger. And Americans do like swagger. You know, they really like to see a guy with braggadocio. Ever since Muhammad Ali, this is something that is -- you know, rap music, it just appeals to the American public in some way or at least a certain segment of it. But it also tires very quickly.
Like Charlie Sheen jumped the shark so fast. He went from "duh, winning", to "who`s playing"?
BEHAR: Yes.
MAHER: And Trump, almost the same thing. You know, he was the front- runner a week ago, maybe he still is. But I think people get it now that he`s a faded clown. And that this is not somebody you can take seriously. He`s just all id, you know?
BEHAR: Yes.
And also, what about, you know, Palin has jumped the shark also at this point, I think, although she`s possibly being replaced by Michele Bachmann, which is scary. One doesn`t read and the other one doesn`t read history, you know?
MAHER: Right. Michele Bachmann, for people who find Sarah Palin too intellectual.
You know, I mean jump the shark? You know, I feel like she was eaten by a shark. I don`t know. She seems to have lost her place at the trough there, because so many people have out-Palined Palin. And she seems almost irrelevant.
But I think, you know, in a short while, Donald Trump will be too. I`ve been saying until just this last week, I thought he is definitely going to be running, but now he`s got a whiff of the grape shot, you know, he`s finding out what it`s like when people fire back at him like Obama did at the correspondents` dinner.
BEHAR: Oh, it was brilliant. And I don`t think he likes it. It was his massive ego that got him in this race, but now that they`re taking a lot of shots at him, I bet you he`s going to take his ball and go home.
BEHAR: Anyway, thank you, Bill, very much for joining me tonight. It`s always a pleasure to talk to you. Watch "Real Time with Bill Maher" Friday nights on HBO. He`ll also be performing at the Cobb Energy Performing Arts Center (ph) in Atlanta on May 26th.
We`ll be back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, amazing new details about how the U.S. was able to track down and kill Osama bin Laden.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Osama bin Laden`s death is still sending shockwaves around the world and amazing new details on how it all went down continue to surface.
Joining me now with the latest is Kaj Larsen, CNN correspondent who has reported extensively on the war on terror and is an expert on special operations; and CNN Pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr.
Welcome to the show, guys.
Barbara, now, the CIA tracked bin Laden through a courier that they have in the surveillance. How did they get that lead in the first place?
BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well you know, a couple of years ago they really began to understand that bin Laden, he wasn`t using cell phones, he wasn`t really using the Internet, how is he communicating? He has a trusted circle, an inner circle of couriers and they began to identify this one man, a Kuwaiti, and they tried to shop the name around, did anybody know who he was.
What became so interesting, is they interrogated some of their detainees and the detainees wouldn`t say very much about this man. That was one of the first clues they had, that he must be someone important, he must be someone close to bin Laden, Joy.
BEHAR: And then -- well then, what happened then? Did they get his name -- how did they get his name out of them?
STARR: Well, eventually and they`re not telling us everything of course, because this is all, you know, five years of covert operations, they say they gathered more and more intelligence. They finally identified the name of the man, but then they trapped him to this compound in Pakistan where he was living with his brother, million-dollar compound, 18-foot tall walls, tons of security. What does a courier need and his brother need with that kind of million-dollar, you know, residence, as we`ve chatted about yesterday.
That`s when they began to narrow it down and say it could only be bin Laden that would get that kind of facility built for him in this area of Pakistan.
BEHAR: And what happened to the courier? Was he killed?
STARR: He was.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He was killed.
STARR: He was -- yes, he and his brother were in there. That was part of the resistance when the Seals came in. He is now dead.
BEHAR: Ok Kaj, now waterboarding has been criticized and called torture by -- by many. Do you think it got us the information we needed?
KAJ LARSEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: What we`re hearing and they`re not telling us exactly how they got the information about the courier that Barbara was just talking about. But most interrogation experts believe that it`s not hard interrogation, like waterboarding but soft interrogation, winning the confidence of the person that you`re interrogating that ultimately gets you the information.
Some of the reports are coming out have been saying that the information gained from Khalid Sheikh Mohammed that was relevant to the bin Laden raid was in fact -- came from these soft interrogations. Just talking to him.
BEHAR: I see. So, but I understand that as a journalist, you underwent waterboarding yourself. Tell me -- tell me about that.
LARSEN: Well, it`s a really hard phenomenon to describe. I guess the closest thing is to say it`s kind of like being shackled or handcuffed to the bottom of a pool and you definitely feel like you`re going to die.
BEHAR: You do. It`s pretty bad. And, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
LARSEN: It`s a horrible experience.
BEHAR: And if it doesn`t really work, then why -- why do people say that it`s a good thing to do? I don`t get that. You sound like it doesn`t really work.
LARSEN: Well, there`s obviously been a robust and vigorous debate about the subject of waterboarding, but most professional interrogators will tell you that even if you do get information during -- using a technique such as waterboarding, you then have to corroborate that information with soft interrogation.
That of course is -- now we`re just talking about whether it works or not. There`s a whole another moral dimension to this argument about whether we should be doing it.
BEHAR: Now Barbara, what do you know about the guys that pulled this mission off, the Seals? Tell me about them.
STARR: Yes. You know, talk about Special Forces. These guys are very special. This is a group of Navy Seals that Kaj knows very well. They`re -- you know, around town they`re basically called Navy Seal Team 6. This is part of America`s very covert military forces, analogous to Delta Force.
You know these guys really carried off something, lightning strike precision, nobody got hurt on their side, they all made it out safely; it is extraordinary. This is the payoff of years of investing in the best equipment, the best people and training, training, training.
This is -- this is what didn`t work years ago in Somalia or Desert One when they tried to rescue the hostages out of Iran. This is really the build up of years and years of really focusing on real expertise in Special Forces.
BEHAR: So it`s just practice makes perfect according to what you just said? It didn`t work in Somalia but now it`s working?
STARR: Well you know, as one guy said to me today in the U.S. military, he said there`s that old saying, the harder you work the luckier you get. They worked very hard and they -- and they make their own luck. They`ve had some missions that haven`t turned out all that well. This one did. They had one helicopter go down due to mechanical failure.
But make no mistake, there was a pretty heavy resistance when they went into that compound. It always could have gone another way.
BEHAR: Yes Kaj, tell me about the resistance, bin Laden`s -- the raid team said that he was not armed. So why did they shoot --
(CROSSTALK)
LARSEN: Correct.
BEHAR: -- why did they shoot him then instead of capturing him?
LARSEN: Well, my esteemed colleague in the Pentagon, Barbara, kind of hit the nail on the head when she said that these are the best special operators in the business. And you really have seen over the course of the last several years many of the high profile take downs and missions, including the "Maersk Alabama" where they -- where they took out the Somali pirates, those are tending more and more to go to the U.S. Navy Seal teams.
The reason it`s hard -- you never want to Monday morning quarterback the guys who are actually kicking down the door and going into the room. You never know at that moment whether bin Laden, they might not have seen a weapon on him at that time, but he could have been, you know, standing on a trigger mechanism for an explosive device. There`s a million different scenarios that as those guys enter the room they have to make a microsecond split second decision as to whether to shoot or not.
BEHAR: Right.
LARSEN: And in this case they made the judgment that it`s better to have one dead Osama than one dead U.S. service member.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well that`s a --
STARR: And Joy --
BEHAR: Yes go ahead.
STARR: -- let me throw something else in there which I think Kaj would agree with. Navy Seals, U.S. military personnel, when they go into a situation like this they are not looking for what you would call a fair fight. People say, was it a fair fight. You bet not. They are not looking for a fair fight, they are looking to accomplish their mission, and to get themselves and all of their buddies out of there in one piece.
When you looked at some of that video that was shown of the inside of the compound, a lot of destruction. You bet. They are looking to get the job done. They took a lot of care, though.
BEHAR: Right.
STARR: There were women and children there. One woman did get killed because she came at them, another woman got shot in the leg, but all the children were safe. They took a lot of pains to make sure the non- combatants there were safe. But not a fair fight against Osama bin Laden.
BEHAR: Ok. And we`ll have more on this in a minute. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Kaj Larsen and Barbara Starr, talking about the bin Laden raid.
Barbara, President Obama and his advisers gathered in the Situation Room at the White House to watch the operation as it unfolded. It`s a fascinating picture to look at, isn`t it? Tell us what went down in that room as much as you know.
STARR: Well, what we do know is CIA director Leon Panetta, he eventually shows up at the White House after it`s done, but he`s basically at CIA headquarters as the whole thing is going down. He is piped into the Situation Room and he continues to narrate for the President what is happening.
There`s some live audio feeds coming in from the commander in the field, some live video from the troops themselves. Really extraordinary stuff.
Panetta is on a screen in the Situation Room narrating all of this for the President and his advisers. What we know is there were a lot of clenched jaws as this was unfolding. They had that helicopter problem. They understood that the whole U.S. team was under attack from those in the compound. They saw and heard and learned most of this as it was going on.
But then finally, Joy, the word came over the audio feed, Geronimo and that was the signal that they had gotten to bin laden and he had been killed in action.
BEHAR: My God, what a relief. I can`t wait to see the movie, can you?
STARR: Yes. Exactly.
BEHAR: Among the many items that they got Kaj, from the compound, there were ten hard drives, five computers, and more than 100 storage devices like DVDs and what they call thumb drives. I don`t know what that is, but whatever it is, it sounds like it`s good and interesting stuff. So what are they going to find in all of this great stuff?
LARSEN: Well, hopefully they`ll find some details of some operations that are in the planning and that will create what we call actionable intelligence, something they can actually use to disrupt plots that could be pre-planned or in motion right now.
You know, although the caveat is to remember that al Qaeda is a very decentralized hierarchy, bin laden was not making a lot of the operational calls at this point, so the vigilance, obviously, still has to be maintained.
BEHAR: But he probably knew -- he probably had all the information, even if it was splintered at this point, he wasn`t making the calls. I bet it`s all in there because he was the figurehead of the whole movement, wasn`t he?
LARSEN: It`s going to be fascinating to see what`s revealed in that information. Absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes. Now, what about the picture, the picture of him dead? Are they going to release the photos of him, Barbara? What do you know about that?
STARR: Well, you know, the White House talked about that. Looking at it, it could even happen within hours. But there`s a problem, which is the photo is extremely gruesome. I`ve talked to people who have actually seen it. I have not seen it. Basically a portion of his head is blown off.
The advantage is that it is recognizable to the world, disfigured as it is, that it is Osama bin Laden, it will cause no doubt. The problem is it may not be really suitable for the public to see. A lot of people maybe not want it on their morning papers, and it might become a propaganda tool out in the world of terrorists holding it up saying look what the Americans did to our leader.
So there`s these tradeoffs to be made.
BEHAR: Right.
STARR: I think it`s going to depend, you know Joy, on how much the conspiracy theorists are out there gaining traction that he`s not really dead.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much, you guys. This story gets more interesting every single day. And you guys do a great job. Thanks.
We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Whoopi Goldberg drops by to talk about Obama, Trump, and her new Broadway musical, "Sister Act".
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: For the last few years, my next guest has been sharing her views and telling it like it is. And what I love the most is that she sometimes gets in just as much trouble as I do. Joining me now is co-host of "The View" and producer, hey, of "Sister Act" on Broadway, my friend Whoopi Goldberg. Whoopi--
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, CO-HOST, THE VIEW: Hey, hey.
BEHAR: Nominated for how many Tonys, baby?
GOLDBERG: I think it`s five.
BEHAR: That`s great.
GOLDBERG: That`s kind of wonderful.
BEHAR: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: I`m very happy. I`m very happy. Those kids worked their butts off, and the principals got nominated, the show got nominated. So I`m very happy.
BEHAR: You worked on it a long time.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Did you know it was going to be a hit?
GOLDBERG: No. But who`s pissed at singing nuns?
BEHAR: Exactly.
GOLDBERG: You know? I mean, it`s just -- it`s fluff. It`s not -- you don`t need a brain to enjoy it. It`s not -- you know, it`s just a good time. And I like that.
BEHAR: But it`s not dumb. It`s not that you don`t need a brain, I don`t think that`s true. I saw it and it has--
GOLDBERG: Well, you needed a brain. You needed a brain.
BEHAR: It has the church in it, it has religion, it takes like, you know, mild and sweet shots at the nuns and the church and the priests.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. It`s sweet.
BEHAR: But it`s a feel-good. Is it as much fun to be a producer getting a Tony as it would be an actress getting a Tony, do you think?
GOLDBERG: Probably. I mean, you know, awards are wonderful, and I, you know, I`m very happy that we got nominated. But my true fervent prayer for the show is that it lasts as long as "Mamma Mia." I want it to run. Because I feel like we could cast so many great girls as Delores, and that we could keep actors working. So I`ve just -- I got my fingers crossed that with all the good things that have happened, that this also will come to pass.
BEHAR: It`s nice to see a play with so many women in it, as a matter of fact, because a lot of stuff is always about men. The "Championship Season" and "War Horse" is mostly male.
GOLDBERG: Yeah, yeah.
BEHAR: You know, and like that.
GOLDBERG: Did you say war whore?
BEHAR: "War Horse."
GOLDBERG: "War Horse."
BEHAR: Do you know what you`re wearing to the Tonys, by the way?
GOLDBERG: Mostly skin.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
GOLDBERG: Yeah.
BEHAR: You`re going to go au naturel?
GOLDBERG: Well, I might go naked.
BEHAR: Naked?
GOLDBERG: Just to see.
BEHAR: All right. Well, maybe a couple pasties and a little --
GOLDBERG: Well, if you insist.
BEHAR: -- a merkin.
GOLDBERG: But where? Merkin on the top? Merkin on the bottom? Merkin in the back of my head?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. So I was -- I want to read you something I heard you say recently on another show. You said somebody asked you, I don`t even know where it was now. But you were asked if you had your choice of what to do with your life and what you would do now, what would it be? And this is what you said. You probably don`t even remember this. I`d like to sit on my porch with my cigarettes, my potato chips and my water, a great couple thousand bucks and my cat, and I`d like to do that for the next 20 years.
Now, do you really mean that?
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: You do?
GOLDBERG: Yes. Oh, yes.
BEHAR: You wouldn`t -- see, I heard that, and I thought, if I have to do that, I will kill myself. Because -- I could never be that, what`s the word, like just relaxed.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: I can`t.
GOLDBERG: Well, I have to tell you, because for, you know, 25, 30 years I`ve done nothing but work. And I -- I would like to have, you know, a couple of years where I could just chill. I would like to just chill out. And maybe go do things that I wanted to do, which is what I do now. But it would give me great pleasure, I think, just to sit.
BEHAR: Do you find the daily show like "The View" a grind, a little bit of a grind? Because it`s every day.
GOLDBERG: Well, I`ve never had a full-time job before.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG: I never actually had a full-time job. You know, I work a couple of months and then I`m off.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: So this is very different, but I must say, given all the folks that come through our show, I have to say I`m glad to have a job. You know?
BEHAR: I know. We`re grateful to be working.
GOLDBERG: Yes, we are.
BEHAR: We know better than to not be grateful to be working.
GOLDBERG: Absolutely.
BEHAR: But what`s the thing you like the most about "The View?"
GOLDBERG: Just that we get to talk. You know, generally before I started doing this, I talked on the radio a little bit, and -- but before that, I very rarely said much of anything.
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDBERG: And when I did, you know, it would be because someone asked me. But on this show, it`s like, we get to talk about stuff that`s going on, and I like that. And particularly at this point in time, because it seems we`re living in a really interesting time, you know, with all that`s gone on last three years -- actually since I`ve been with you all, I just feel like the world has taken a turn and run, and it`s just like, hold on. You know? Hold on. So I`m excited that this is the time I was there.
BEHAR: That we`re in the middle of it.
GOLDBERG: We are in the middle of it, honey.
BEHAR: I know. There`s something wonderful about being right -- and having a voice, and people listening to what you say, even if they disagree, which they do.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know, it`s OK, but I think, you know how when "Sunset Boulevard" where she says we taught the world to smile.
BEHAR: To dream. Yes. Yes.
GOLDBERG: To dream. Well, I think, and maybe this is just ridiculous, but I believe it in my heart. I think we`re teaching the world, or our world, the people that get to see us, how to be civil, and disagree and still be able to be friends.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: Because it seemed that this was an art form that has been lost over the years, as we`ve seen with the various talking heads on TV. But I think that we are five women, and it is, as annoying as we can be to one another.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And to the audience.
GOLDBERG: And to the audience, no one ever says that we were disrespectful to each other.
BEHAR: No, we don`t do that.
GOLDBERG: And I love that. I really dig that.
BEHAR: It`s never personal.
GOLDBERG: That`s why I always chuckle when they say, oh, you know, there`s -- we don`t feud.
BEHAR: No.
GOLDBERG: Feud is personal.
BEHAR: Not off camera.
GOLDBERG: No.
BEHAR: We do, whatever we do, we do it on camera.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Let me ask you about Obama. Obama, yes, President Obama.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: Because we`re talking about hot topics, how we have the opportunity to speak and everything. You know, President Obama, I think, has come out of this beautifully. And all I can think about is all those people who basically called him a wimp, who said he didn`t have the chops for foreign affairs, and how it just makes me happy to see that he has really pulled it out.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know, as I`ve said many times on our show, you know, people want him to be an angry black man. That`s not who he is. That wasn`t who he was when he ran. He`s an articulate, intelligent, smart, and he takes his time. He does what he needs to do, in spite of people being angry about it. And I do love the fact that, you know, now that he`s done this, you know, people are saying, well, you know, this is a joint effort between he and President Bush, and it`s not. This is Obama`s. This belongs to him.
President Bush, you know, got us to the war, and then he moved us into Afghanistan. And nobody was paying attention, really, to Osama very much.
I always thought he was walking around Florida.
BEHAR: Yes. They dropped -- they kind of dropped it during the Bush administration.
GOLDBERG: They dropped the ball. Yes. But one of the things that Obama said when he came into office, he said, we`re going to get him. I`m coming for you. You know? So --
BEHAR: But of course, Cheney came out of his crypt to take credit for, you know, the waterboarding and all of the Guantanamo tactics, to say that they worked, which --
GOLDBERG: You`re not sure. You don`t feel good about them.
BEHAR: No, because a lot of experts say you`re better off getting them to, as we were pointing out before, we were talking about this, the Stockholm Syndrome in a way. You keep someone in captivity long enough, they start to love their captors and then they start telling them stuff.
GOLDBERG: Some do. Some do. But you know, John McCain was really clear. He said this is a terrible thing to do. But there are times, you know, when you can be as good to people and then you`ve got to like get up in their face. And as I said earlier, and I think we talked about this, I don`t know what the turning point was at Guantanamo for whoever ended up giving the piece of information. They can take credit all they want to. We don`t know, we`re never going to know. You know?
All I care about is that Obama took care of the business he said he was going to take care of, that`s one more thing. Now, you know, I guess this will put to rest some of the loony tune stuff that we`ve seen going around.
BEHAR: I hope so. Can you imagine if McCain and Palin were in there? God knows what would have been going on.
GOLDBERG: Well, I believe that they may have found him, you know, McCain and Palin. I don`t know whether they would have been as stealth as this administration was.
BEHAR: Right. Right.
GOLDBERG: You know, these guys -- and they weren`t kidding. When you look at the picture of them sitting in there, they`re not enjoying this.
BEHAR: I know. That`s a great shot.
GOLDBERG: This is -- this is an important piece of history.
BEHAR: OK. All right. Sit right there.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We have a lot more to discuss.
GOLDBERG: All right.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my pal Whoopi Goldberg. You know, what about Trump? Let`s talk about Trump.
GOLDBERG: Why?
BEHAR: Well, first of all--
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Yeah. First of all, you know, we said that he basically -- the whole thing about looking into the president`s grades at Harvard and how he got into Harvard and how he wasn`t a good student, that struck me as a racist statement. I`m not saying that Trump is a racist, I`m just saying that the statement sounds vaguely racist.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know, it`s like I said, you know, black folks are raised to quadruple-fake before they speak about that`s racist, because people always say, oh, you`re just playing the black thing. But you know what? I felt I had to play the black thing, because I got tired of it. It`s like, dude, we`ve dealt with idiot Congress or Senate, I forget what this broad was, who sends out a picture of two monkeys and Obama`s face on the baby. We listened to people talk about, oh, he looks like Curious George, doesn`t he? We sit and we listen to a guy -- and you said it so beautifully, you know -- who actually did the work, got into school, became the head of the Law Review.
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDBERG: And you`re questioning him, why? Because now you can`t -- you can`t prove that he`s not a foreigner, so now you`re going after his record? At some point, if you`re a black person, you start to go, you know what? You`re -- not only are you crossing the line, but you`re going to get yourself in deep dog doo.
BEHAR: No, but what about how much the blacks love him. What about that? Remember that statement?
GOLDBERG: Did he?
BEHAR: What did he say? I`m very popular with the blacks?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very popular with the blacks.
BEHAR: I`m very popular with the blacks.
GOLDBERG: With the blacks what?
BEHAR: That`s the--
GOLDBERG: The black people?
BEHAR: You know, Seth Meyers had the funniest joke. He said unless he means the Blacks, a white family that he knows --
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG: It`s the truth. Who is he talking about?
BEHAR: He means the African-American community. He thinks he`s popular with them.
GOLDBERG: Well, you know what, he may be popular with the African- American community, but what he`s saying is not popular.
BEHAR: Do you think he`s still popular with them?
GOLDBERG: I don`t know.
BEHAR: I don`t know.
GOLDBERG: I mean, I don`t have any beef with Donald, except that when you hold yourself up and say you`re thinking about running for the largest office in the world, and you ignore facts -- I don`t know that I want you leading the free world. If you`re -- I mean, the -- when he said that he knew George Bush was an American, remember that on the show?
BEHAR: Yeah.
GOLDBERG: How did he know? I guess he was there. I guess he was there when he was born. You know, I just -- Donald does so many things so well. That show is wonderfully fun to watch.
BEHAR: "Celebrity Apprentice?"
GOLDBERG: "The Apprentice." But this -- this is much more serious to me. Because this requires a global feel. Where you don`t go in and say to somebody, I`m taking your stuff. We don`t -- we are not barbarians in this country. We have been on occasion barbaric, as all countries are. But we cannot have the president being barbaric.
BEHAR: And he`s also very touchy. You can`t have a touchy president. One of the things about President Obama is that he`s -- he`s a gentleman, but he has a tough facade, I think. Because he gets criticized constantly and yelled at and they call him names. And he remains, you know, he still has a great sense of humor, as we saw at the correspondents` dinner.
GOLDBERG: And he also has a job to do, and he knows it`s not about him, and he knows not everybody`s going to dig it. But if Donald is going to run for president, he`s going to have to get a 50-foot-thick skin. Because he can`t -- he doesn`t seem to do well.
BEHAR: Lots of luck.
GOLDBERG: You know, with (inaudible).
BEHAR: That`s going to take about 10 years of psychotherapy, because you don`t just get that overnight.
GOLDBERG: If he says he`s going to run, he better develop it overnight. He better go to some kind of skin doctor and get some help.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. The only thing -- the other thing that you said, that you said in one interview, you said that you only had one love in your life.
GOLDBERG: Yes.
BEHAR: And it wasn`t one of your three husbands, I don`t--
GOLDBERG: No.
BEHAR: How many times were you married, three times?
GOLDBERG: Three.
BEHAR: Three times. So who was it? Who was the one love? Come on.
GOLDBERG: You know I`m not going to tell you.
BEHAR: Come on.
GOLDBERG: No, no, no.
BEHAR: Is it somebody I know?
GOLDBERG: No, actually.
BEHAR: I never heard of him?
GOLDBERG: I wouldn`t think so.
BEHAR: No?
GOLDBERG: I wouldn`t think so. No.
BEHAR: But what made it the one -- just all right -- so--
GOLDBERG: It just was.
BEHAR: You just were in love with him.
GOLDBERG: It just was. Yeah. It was unlike anything else I`d ever felt. And you know, the thing about love and -- is that it can alter. It can change, you know? And I think that`s why my thing with marriage is so much fun now, because I know that, yes, up until the moment the priest or the rabbi or the shaman -- I`ve been married by all three -- says I now pronounce you man and wife, 10 minutes after it, I`m ready to go.
BEHAR: Really?
GOLDBERG: Yes. I`m bad.
BEHAR: But what happens to you? Like you get a--
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDBERG: I think -- this is it? You, forever?
BEHAR: Well, yes.
GOLDBERG: You know.
BEHAR: From now until forever, it`s too much.
GOLDBERG: No, I don`t think I can -- I don`t think I can do it. So more now I just -- I`m happy to see people who are happy. I`m happy to see people who are truly in love. Like, there`s a great documentary you should see, Carol Channing and her husband. You know, they were childhood sweethearts, and then they met many years later, and that`s true love. Theirs is true love. And it just -- when you see it, it`s like Eli Wallach and Ann Jackson, that`s true love. When you see it, it`s fantastic.
BEHAR: Well, it lasts. True love lasts.
GOLDBERG: Yes, because true love is hard. Because you`ve got to have true love even when you`re mad. And even when the person`s left the toilet seat up and the toothpaste on the toilet bowl.
BEHAR: Even when he cheats on you? No?
GOLDBERG: You know, I`m a big believer that I think if he says I`d rather have hookers, get him to the clean hookers, because women are very funny about sex. We get to a point and it`s like, no, we`re done. No, we don`t want to have any. No.
BEHAR: And so what`s a boy to do?
GOLDBERG: What`s a guy to do now? You know, I think when people cheat with someone they begin a relationship with, that`s different.
BEHAR: That is different.
GOLDBERG: That is very different.
BEHAR: Some people are just cheaters.
GOLDBERG: Yeah. You know.
BEHAR: OK, hold on a second. We`ll be back in just a minute with more from Whoopi Goldberg.
GOLDBERG: More.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Whoopi Goldberg and I are back. So what I was saying during the break is that, you know, some people cheat on the honeymoon. I know cases like that, where they get married, they go away, and the guy is cheating, and they still stay married because the woman didn`t find out until later.
GOLDBERG: Well, I believe that we see signs. We see things that we don`t like or make us uncomfortable, and we gloss over them, and we think, OK, it`s going to be all right. But I always believe that it`s better to make the conversation, to say, OK, here`s what I`m willing to accept, OK? You want to go out and have outside sex, OK. Can`t be with anybody I know, can`t be a relationship. Because once it turns into a relationship, it shifts. But if you got to go get your little rocks off, go do it. Don`t bring anything back to me.
BEHAR: But how can you prevent that?
GOLDBERG: What?
BEHAR: Bringing something back to you.
GOLDBERG: Well, you put a condom on that little bad boy.
BEHAR: You hope that he does that.
GOLDBERG: No, no -- you --
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDBERG: Oh, yes. But you know, you know. If he was like that before you got married, if he was a run-around kind of guy before you got married, chances are you don`t have the magic thing that`s going to turn him into a guy that doesn`t do it. So be up front.
BEHAR: That`s true.
GOLDBERG: And say, if you`re a cheater, I don`t want to go on with this. I don`t want this relationship, because I don`t want this in my life. Now, most of us say that`s the guy I love -- and so then they get screwed.
BEHAR: And they stay with them.
GOLDBERG: And they stay with them.
BEHAR: But that`s their choice.
GOLDBERG: But it is their choice. And I believe if a guy needs to get a little nooky, he should go pay for it, make sure it`s clean. Yes.
BEHAR: So I assume you think that prostitution should be legal.
GOLDBERG: Absolutely, it should be legal. And it should be under the guise of the health department.
BEHAR: That`s never going to happen. I mean, they say it`s the oldest profession--
GOLDBERG: It has to happen.
BEHAR: And still, how many thousands of years later and it`s still not happening.
GOLDBERG: Well, I`ll tell you, they should take a leaf out of the book in Amsterdam, where it is legal.
BEHAR: The red light district.
GOLDBERG: The red light district. And the women are taken care of. They have health care. They have child care if they need it. They`ve got everything they need. It`s a business. We`re a different society.
BEHAR: This country mixes religion in with sex. Which is, you know.
GOLDBERG: Well, what was Mary Magdalene?
BEHAR: I`m not going there today.
GOLDBERG: No, no--
BEHAR: I can`t. I can`t afford a letter from Bill Donohue today.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG: No, but even Bill Donohue has to remember that Mary Magdalene was a working girl.
BEHAR: That`s right.
GOLDBERG: She was a working girl. And if Jesus Christ came come along and say, you know what, Mary, come here. You`re cool, you`re fine.
BEHAR: Here`s 20.
(LAUGHTER)
GOLDBERG: Now you`re going to get the letter from Bill Donohue.
(LAUGHTER)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, you can catch the Tony-nominated "Sister Act" on Broadway right now.
GOLDBERG: That`s right.
BEHAR: And thank you, Whoopi, for doing this, and thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Go see that show, it`s good.
END
