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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Kara Dioguardi; Interview With Alice Cooper
Aired May 06, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on the Joy Behar Interviews: former "American Idol" judge, Kara Dioguardi, gives Joy behind-the-scenes dish about her rollercoaster tenure on the show.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA DIOGUARDI, FORMER JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": It was like they just pulled some girl off the street and -- you know, who looks kind of like Paula Abdul, who was supposed to take over Paula Abdul.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And she`ll explain how she overcame sexual abuse to become a huge success.
Plus, original shock-rocker Alice Cooper, tells Joy about being inducted into the Rock Hall of Fame, his battle with alcohol and his work with other troubled stars.
That and more starting right now.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Kara Dioguardi is a Grammy-nominated songwriter and record executive whose hit songs have appeared on albums by the likes of Celine Dion, Britney Spears and Christina Aguilera but she`s perhaps best known for her polarizing stint as the fourth judge on "American Idol".
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARA DIOGUARDI, FORMER JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": The only thing I wish is it`s a little bit lighter, playful. That`s the only thing. You get very serious. But the vocal was fire. It really was.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Thank you very much.
SIMON COWELL, FORMER JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": When you say playful, I mean what do you want?
DIOGUARDI: It`s just --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, he has a way with the ladies, doesn`t he? Kara dishes about all the backstage drama on the show and a lot more in her book "A Helluva High Note: Surviving life, love and `American Idol`". With me now is the very talented Miss Kara Dioguardi.
DIOGUARDI: So good to see you.
BEHAR: Yes. Good to see you too.
But you know -- when I watch that, he`s annoying, Simon. But he also was the reason I would watch the show.
DIOGUARDI: Of course. Of course.
BEHAR: And right now, I don`t know, how do you feel about the show right now?
DIOGUARDI: I haven`t seen it that much but what I have seen, it looks like they`re having fun. I`m a big Steven Tyler fan. I actually wrote --
BEHAR: His music or his obsession with young women?
DIOGUARDI: His music. I don`t know about his obsession with young women.
BEHAR: He`s always flirting with all the girls that come on.
DIOGUARDI: He`s a rock star, man. Rock stars are like -- that`s their thing.
BEHAR: I guess.
DIOGUARDI: About a year ago I got a call from a friend of mine who said, Marty Frederickson (ph), who said I`m going to come over right now so we can write a song, I`m with Steven Tyler. And I was like, what? You`re bringing Steven Tyler to my house right now?
I`m throwing on makeup. I`m like -- what have I got to eat? You know, bringing down the Yamaha keyboard. And Steven Tyler walks into my house and I`m just like, you know, dying.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: Because he was a hero of mine and he starts playing "Dream On" and we write this song together and I said to myself, this is a guy who would be a great replacement and I actually called the producer. So I think he`s great. I mean he brings a lot of life to the show, and they look like they`re having a good time.
BEHAR: Well, yes. They look like they`re having a good time. I`m not a music person. I don`t know from music, I only know what I like to listen to. So without somebody there with a real critical eye, I can`t tell if the person is really good or not because they all sound the same to me.
DIOGUARDI: Well, I think as artists it`s probably also harder to kind of judge other artists because you`re in the same boat, in the same way that someone would be judging you.
BEHAR: But maybe that`s why Simon and you and Randy were right for the situation.
DIOGUARDI: Well, I can`t speak for the current judges, but I know for me that how I got better in my career was when people were really critical. And they told me what I wasn`t doing. Because in the music business it`s so competitive and you have to write so many songs and go through so much crap to get where you are that that pushed me. And I got better.
And actually on "American Idol", you know, Season 8 was really difficult for me and I talk about that in the book. I was someone who came from behind the scenes. I`d never been on television. I didn`t even know where the cameras were. I mean it was a nightmare.
BEHAR: Did anybody help you?
DIOGUARDI: Not really. And that`s where the reality TV comes in. But by doing it, and keeping it going and listening to feedback, actually talking to people like Simon. You know, I`d say, Simon, what am I not doing? He`d be like, stop being so serious. I thought it was a music show, but it was a TV show.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: I needed to be more entertaining but I couldn`t find my role because really my role was an industry expert. When have you seen experts be really entertaining?
BEHAR: You came in when basically there was Paula, Randy and Simon there. Now they throw a fourth judge in there. And I was reading that you really didn`t feel comfortable and the audience didn`t seem to take to that idea. But you were there for two seasons.
DIOGUARDI: I was there for two seasons. I don`t think people really understood what I did.
And you know, in my book, "A Helluva High Note" deals with my back story, that I was a songwriter, that I spent years trying to hone my craft and being rejected and then finally becoming a successful songwriter, record executive and publisher.
And there was no back story. It was like they just pulled some girl off the street who looked kind of like Paula Abdul, who was supposed to take over Paula Abdul. So that setup wasn`t exactly a great one.
BEHAR: No, because Paula was popular.
DIOGUARDI: Of course, Paula was great. She was the heart. And I was never trying to take anyone down. I was just trying to do my job and trying to figure out how to do it.
BEHAR: You know something. That is a bad position to be in. I remember when Deborah Norville took over for Jane Pauley on "The Today Show" and everybody hated Deborah Norville. She`s a nice person, so was of course was Jane. But she couldn`t really shake that. It`s not nice --
DIOGUARDI: It`s really difficult to break up the Beatles. But I have to say through it all I`m so glad I did "American Idol". I faced every fear I ever had. Stage fright, and I came through it, and I`m stronger and better for it. So I have nothing bad to say about the show.
BEHAR: No, of course.
DIOGUARDI: It was more -- it was really difficult to go from the studio, behind the scenes, to like, oh, my God, what side do I -- I remember the first time I got an autograph. Do I sign on my boobs? Do I sign on my face? I didn`t even know what to do. It was getting used to it.
BEHAR: What about Paula and Simon, did they get along with each other?
DIOGUARDI: They did.
BEHAR: They did.
DIOGUARDI: I think that they had a really good chemistry. They -- she was the heart of the show, meaning she gave people second, third, fourth chances.
BEHAR: Oh, I know.
DIOGUARDI: And I think America loved that about her.
BEHAR: That`s what Jennifer Lopez does, too, doesn`t she? She`s also very easy on everybody.
DIOGUARDI: And I think there are two sides to the story. It`s some people think you need to nurture artists and some people feel that that nurturing comes from a critical stance. So you kind of had them both battling it out. And we were really hurt in Season 9 when Paula left, because Paula was a yes vote on the auditions.
BEHAR: She also was a train wreck.
DIOGUARDI: I don`t know if she was a train wreck, but --
BEHAR: She was. I mean everybody, she was loopy half the time and people thought she was --
DIOGUARDI: She was fun. You know, she got caught up in the moment, which I wish I could have gotten more caught up in the moment. I was kind of caught up in the "oh, my God get this camera off me and get it on to Paula." I was like, "It`s very nice. Paula, what do you think?" Like I just wanted it off me -- get off.
BEHAR: I know. But people just thought that she was drinking and doing drugs. Was she?
DIOGUARDI: I never saw her do -- you know, and I lived in her house when I first met her. I never saw her touch a drug. I never saw her smoke a cigarette or even drink.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: I mean I know she`s talked about prescription pills in the past, but I can`t speak about that. But what I can say is we were hurt in Season 9 that she wasn`t there. And I feel like at the end of the day they should have paid her what she wanted.
BEHAR: Ok. Well, I agree with that. They could have kept her there.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: But you know, the business just can be cruel. Very cruel. Did you quit or did they fire you? What`s the story there?
DIOGUARDI: So when I woke up, I was on summer vacation at coastal Maine and after Ellen had left, the next morning I woke up to reports that I`d been fired. And it was like, you know, somebody shot me or something. It`s that feeling of -- fired? I`ve never been fired in my life.
It kind of brought back every rejection, you know, when I got my heart broken by a boy or whatever. And I called the producers and I said, "I`m reading reports that I`ve been fired. Have I been fired?"
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: And they said no. And I said, well what is this coming from? Why would it be on the Internet? They said, well, Ellen leaving has really upset the whole panel. We were looking for a replacement for Simon and now we have to look for two replacements. So things are up in it the air.
And I said, so you`re telling me that I may or may not be on the show? And they said, it`s, you know, it`s uncertain. You may be on it, you may not be. It`s like 50/50, 60/40.
And at that time I felt like I pushed back my schedule already twice, I had three other jobs, I couldn`t keep my life on hold. And I`ve always been somebody who controls their own destiny and it was just time to leave. So I sent a letter, my manager sent a letter.
BEHAR: So you basically quit.
DIOGUARDI: Yes. And said please release me from my contract.
BEHAR: You know, your book is filled with all sorts of things: sexual abuse, eating disorders, date rape. I want to talk about some of that when we come back.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: So stay right there.
I mean you have a lot of stuff in here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Still ahead on the Joy Behar Interviews: rock icon Alice Cooper tells Joy what they deal is with all that make up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: I`m back with songwriter and former "American Idol" judge Kara Dioguardi. Now you write in the book how -- when you were 11 years old you were repeatedly molested by an older guy. How old was he? And you were 11 and he was what?
DIOGUARDI: He was about 18.
BEHAR: Eighteen, well, that`s -- that`s an adult.
DIOGUARDI: Nineteen or 18.
BEHAR: Now, you know, you say he was the teen-aged son of a family friend in the book. He sounds like he`s really an adult; 18 votes, 18 goes to war.
DIOGUARDI: Yes, I think he was going -- it happened in college and when he was going in. Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me what happened.
DIOGUARDI: Well, he was -- we used to play "Monster", it was called. And one day, or hide and seek kind of thing where you`d run around and hide. And one day it kind of turned into what I say in "Helluva High Note", it is hide, seek and touch.
And you don`t really know what`s going on at that age.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: You kind of like whoa, hold on, what is this? And I -- I did speak to my mother about it and unfortunately it was a time when I think there were no Oprahs, it was still kind of repressed in the culture about speaking about these things, and she was --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What year was this? Do you remember?
DIOGUARDI: Well, it was probably `81.
BEHAR: 1981?
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
So it was something that she really couldn`t handle. And I think as a kid, you process that as, I`m not good enough, or something`s wrong with me.
But you know, the good news is that before she died we spoke about it and since I`ve written the book, her friends have called me and said, "This was something that weighed on her" like you know, in her life.
BEHAR: She probably just was not capable of dealing with it.
DIOGUARDI: She was not capable of dealing with it. But it did and --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about your father? Where was he?
DIOGUARDI: He didn`t -- I didn`t discuss this with him.
BEHAR: You just went to your mother.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s not that she didn`t believe you; she just didn`t do anything about it.
DIOGUARDI: She didn`t know what to do. She did not know how to handle it.
BEHAR: Well, what -- what do you think she should have done?
DIOGUARDI: Spoken to her friend and said, "Look, you know, this is what happened."
BEHAR: Your son`s -- your son`s a pervert.
DIOGUARDI: This is what happened. You know? I think I worry sometimes that because I didn`t say anything, you know, I hope this has never happened again with anybody else.
But it was something my mother just couldn`t really handle. And it definitely affected -- you know, part of this book is to -- to show people that song-writing is really about the truth. And when -- when people ask me, why did you tell everything? Songwriters tell the truth.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: That`s what they do in their songs. Their currency is the truth. And because I had these things happen to me as a kid, I got into some not so great relationships. And that`s where songs like Kelly Clarkson`s "Walk Away" came from.
BEHAR: You wrote that?
DIOGUARDI: Yes. Or my eating disorder, when I -- when I wrote "Sober" with Pink, I had something to pull upon. So the book is kind of an autobiography through these songs, to show people that songwriters pull from their own truth and that`s where a lot of those songs -- songs come from.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: And that not all the artists write their songs. They can co-write and I hope that it`s fascinating for people to see that that`s actually a job.
BEHAR: Do you think Irving Berlin had traumas?
DIOGUARDI: Oh, my God. I don`t know about that. But I could tell you I`ve met -- most songwriters have traumas. I`ve got to tell you. A lot of us have them.
BEHAR: And then --
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: How about comedic? Comedians --
BEHAR: No, not necessarily traumas, but we were always the outsiders. Comedians are the outsiders.
DIOGUARDI: Right.
BEHAR: We have something -- something`s wrong with us. The ears stick out, my hair was really weird --
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: Really?
BEHAR: -- some kids are fat.
DIOGUARDI: You have great hair, though.
BEHAR: Well, now I do because I have a Brazilian wax.
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: Oh, the blowout.
BEHAR: The blowout.
DIOGUARDI: Ok, if you have a Brazilian wax on your head, I`m not so sure about that one.
BEHAR: No that would be a problem.
DIOGUARDI: Yes that would really not look very good. Let`s keep that --
BEHAR: But most artists have all different kinds, have something. Have something.
DIOGUARDI: Of course. That`s the -- the fuel for the songs.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: You know, have you ever -- someone`s first records, you fall in love with them, right? Then they get famous and they get rich and their music goes to pot. It`s like --
BEHAR: Not the Beatles though.
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: No, I know. That is what is so incredible about the Beatles.
BEHAR: That never happens, the former, or the Rolling Stones -- they`re really great groups, that doesn`t happen.
DIOGUARDI: That didn`t -- that`s true.
BEHAR: Why is that?
DIOGUARDI: With Paul Simon, that didn`t happen.
BEHAR: No, Paul Simon is better than ever.
DIOGUARDI: I -- I just think that their dedication to the craft is --
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: -- is -- is so intense.
BEHAR: Here`s how stupid I was in college.
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: No, you weren`t stupid.
BEHAR: Let me tell you something. I went to college with Paul Simon. He was a year ahead of me. All right? And I didn`t know who he was. He used to play the guitar on the library steps, the Clapper Library, right?
DIOGUARDI: Right.
BEHAR: And then every year his fraternity would have follies and he would sing a song. And he was like, ok now Paul Simon is going to sing a song that he wrote and we`d go, oh, not again.
DIOGUARDI: Are you kidding me?
BEHAR: Not again.
DIOGUARDI: Are you joking?
BEHAR: Yes, I`m serious.
DIOGUARDI: Oh, wow. You know what --
BEHAR: A year later he was a superstar.
DIOGUARDI: Yes, you got that one wrong Joy.
BEHAR: See, this is why I could never be a judge on "American Idol".
DIOGUARDI: No I mean, I -- I just say. Yes. No. If you passed up Paul Simon, then we`ve got to talk. I -- I saw him three weeks ago. I was at this event and he did a private --
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: And he stood up and sung hit after hit after hit. I mean, this guy has an incredible catalogue.
BEHAR: Brilliant.
DIOGUARDI: Brilliant.
BEHAR: Brilliant.
DIOGUARDI: And I asked him, I said, you know, because he taught at Berkeley and I said I`d love to do that. And he said it was difficult for him.
BEHAR: Where in Boston, Berkeley Music?
DIOGUARDI: Yes. You know, it was difficult because he can`t write for everyone. It`s hard when you want someone to come up to your level and, you know, it`s hard for them to think the way he thinks, I think.
So to be a teacher for certain songwriters is troublesome when you`re that great.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: How do you tell someone to write "Bridge over Troubled Water"? I mean, it`s impossible.
BEHAR: I know, it`s hard. It`s hard.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: Now let`s a bit -- let`s talk about some other terrible things that happened to you, because it`s in the book. And it`s interesting how you overcame all of it, really because you really have bounced back. Look at you, you`re beautiful, you`re talented.
(CROSSTALK)
DIOGUARDI: Well thank you.
BEHAR: You`re working. You have a new job I understand.
DIOGUARDI: I`ve got a great husband, too.
BEHAR: And you have a great husband.
DIOGUARDI: That was the greatest thing I did was pick the right -- I got myself --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Finally -- eventually you did.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: That`s good. Good for you.
But in -- the year 2000 which is really not that long ago, you were -- you were date raped by a well-known music producer. When -- tell -- how did that happen?
DIOGUARDI: Well, I was working in Florida. And I was kind of on my own. I didn`t have any family or friends down there. And I was there for so many weeks and this person was around the studios and we would talk and he seemed friendly. And I felt, you know, kind of a warm feeling from him like he was safe and he`s just a nice guy.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
DIOGUARDI: He said well, let`s go have dinner. And I didn`t really think of it as a date. It was just more like, let`s continue talking about music and, you know, you`re -- you don`t live here and I`ll take you out.
So we went for dinner and then the next thing I knew he brought me back to my apartment and, you know, we started kind of kissing and then it was like I`m saying, ok, no, you know, and then no is just not being received.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No is not --
DIOGUARDI: He just keeps going and going.
BEHAR: But that`s the mantra. What part of "no" don`t you understand?
DIOGUARDI: And because you know this person, you don`t think that it`s -- it`s going to get weird. And it gets weird. And finally, you know, he left and two days later -- I stayed in bed the next day. I was just in a state of shock. I didn`t know if I`d done something to cause it, that`s the thing about date rape is --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes. Well, because you brought him to the room --
DIOGUARDI: I was looking back, what did I wear?
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: What did he -- he came to my apartment, did I ask for it? Did I -- and -- and it puts you in this place --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
DIOGUARDI: -- of almost believing that you did do something.
BEHAR: Right.
DIOGUARDI: But when you say "no" it means --
BEHAR: It means, you should mean it.
DIOGUARDI: That`s it.
BEHAR: And you know, guys -- guys, you know, this whole idea that a guy can`t stop, even in the middle of having sex, if you say, "Get off of me, I hate you, I hate you, get off." He should be able to do that.
DIOGUARDI: He should get off. And guess what? Most guys do. Most guys are great. This was just --
BEHAR: Most guys do. That`s right. So if they don`t --
DIOGUARDI: This is just a piece of crap dude, you know.
BEHAR: This is for girls out there listening.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
BEHAR: They should know that if you say "no" to somebody and he doesn`t stop, it`s his fault.
DIOGUARDI: 100 percent. It`s totally his fault. And why I discuss these things in the book is to let women know that this does happen. And I didn`t name the people because I don`t want it to be about them. I want it to be about the fact that there are a lot of people out there that have gone through this and you can get through it. And don`t ever let it -- hurt your dreams or from achieving what you need to do.
BEHAR: Ok. We`re going to take a break. We`ll have more with Kara in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
DIOGUARDI: (INAUDIBLE) Amber, the only thing that saved you was the melody and the "love it or hate it" part of your hook.
Love it or hate it, love it or hate it -- it`s one of the only things I remember out of this whole thing. Other than that, you would have been in last place.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Kara Dioguardi on her upcoming Bravo show "Platinum Hit".
You know, a lot of women talk about being sexually harassed in various industries. I mean I was sexually harassed when I was a schoolteacher. You don`t have to be in the business.
DIOGUARDI: You don`t.
BEHAR: It`s a very funny story about my sexual harassment, though, I`ll tell you later.
DIOGUARDI: How the hell could that be funny? How the hell is that funny?
BEHAR: Because with me it was like --
DIOGUARDI: Well, you`re just funny so everything --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I turned on him. There are ways to deal with it sometimes and, you know, humor is one of the ways.
But sometimes you`re in a position where you can`t, or you`re in a bank and you need your job and tell me what happened to you.
DIOGUARDI: Well, also when this was going on, you know, I was trapped in a cabin upstate New York somewhere, and I just didn`t know what to do, you know. This was a big break for me.
BEHAR: You were writing music with this guy.
DIOGUARDI: Yes. And it just turned into this, you know, crazy thing where there were strippers and --
BEHAR: Strippers?
DIOGUARDI: Just nuts. All --
BEHAR: In the cabin upstate? Where`d they come from, the strippers?
DIOGUARDI: From the city. But, you know, it was just very uncomfortable, and I -- this was a big opportunity for me and I did not want to blow it. And I think through all these experiences, you know, whether it was the producer or the artist, you`re -- if you go and you blow the whistle it becomes about that, and then your career could be stopped. Then I would be known as the girl who, you know, tattletaled.
BEHAR: The informer.
DIOGUARDI: Yes.
And I had a lot of things I needed to accomplish. Music was saving me. It was keeping me healthy. And I wasn`t going to let any of these guys take that away from me.
BEHAR: Do you regret that, though, at all?
DIOGUARDI: I really -- I don`t. The only regret I have is that I hope that no one else was affected. That maybe if I had blown the whistle, you know, it would save other people.
But in my heart I was just, you know, just getting healthy, just feeling better about myself. And I knew music was the key to that and staying in that and doing that for my livelihood.
BEHAR: How do you emotionally work that out, the resentment and the anger?
DIOGUARDI: You know, you write. That`s how my songs were so important. I wrote about my feelings.
BEHAR: That`s your therapy.
DIOGUARDI: I would go into the studio some days not knowing how I was feeling and, you know, come out with Kelly Clarkson`s "Walk Away" and be like, "Damn, I`m really angry at this guy." And then later, now, I can kind of remember that. I`m not in that place anymore. I`m in a good place. But I had to work through it.
That`s why I tell people if you`re not a songwriter, write a journal. Put your feelings out there. Tell somebody if you`ve been date raped. Don`t put it inside, pull it out, and you have nothing to be ashamed of.
BEHAR: Yes. Date rape is odd because you really, that was something from -- this is harassment. You don`t consider this date rape as sexual harassment?
DIOGUARDI: No, because it was got physical at the end where he -- I say in the book, he grabbed my hand and put it on his, you know, private thing. But I don`t feel it was -- it wasn`t rape. It was still not, you know, hey, it wasn`t fun. No harassment`s fun, but you know, I lived through it.
BEHAR: You`ve come up, you said I wake up and I`m the poster child for molestation. And then my family is going crazy. You know, like oh my God, I didn`t even know this, I`m anything but a victim. You said that in your book. You don`t feel like a victim.
DIOGUARDI: I do not. There isn`t a woman who`s gone through this thing that did anything wrong. And this is hopefully to inspire other people to achieve their dreams.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: Up next I`ll find out what Alice Cooper has in common with Britney Spears besides their eyeliners.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: Before Lady Gaga wore a meat dress, Alice Cooper bit the head of a live chicken on stage. Now, that`s entertainment! Alice Cooper is the newest member of the Rock `n` Roll Hall of Fame, and he joins me now. Welcome to the show, Alice.
ALICE COOPER, MUSICIAN: Thank you, thank you, thank you.
BEHAR: First of all, I have to say, that Alice is not your real name.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: It`s going to be hard for me to talk to you as Alice.
COOPER: OK. My real name is Brenda.
BEHAR: Brenda?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Why Alice?
COOPER: Well, you know, you had to come up with something at that time that was going to annoy every parent in America. And that was pretty much it. I figured if we called ourselves Alice Cooper and we`re wearing sort of our girlfriend`s slips, but they`re kind of torn and there`s a little blood on the arm and everything like this, you know, it was pretty artistic at the time to do that, 1968, `67, `68, but it definitely got the shock value across.
BEHAR: It sure did. It sure did. But why not Hortensia Shirley? Why Alice?
COOPER: Alice was the first name that came up. It`s funny, because we were trying to think of names, and the very first name that came up was Alice Cooper. And then I started thinking, Alice Cooper, Lizzie Borden, Baby Jane. It had a ring to it. It had kind of a dark ring to it. It`s kind of good.
BEHAR: That`s funny. But you know, what`s her name, Lady Gaga is nothing compared to -- I mean, she goes out with crazy outfits, but you guys, you had guillotines on the air, you had blood, snakes, baby dolls.
COOPER: Still do.
BEHAR: Are you still walking around with a snake, right?
COOPER: Absolutely. I had the snake last night at the induction, you know, because it`s sort of so synonymous with Alice, the snake is, and it was voted the No. 1 prop of all time.
BEHAR: Really?
COOPER: Yes, the snake was.
BEHAR: Didn`t Britney Spears have a snake at one point, too?
COOPER: Yes. It kind of watered down the idea.
(CROSSTALK)
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: When she did it.
Now, congratulations on being inducted into the hall of fame.
COOPER: Thank you.
BEHAR: That`s really lovely. You were passed over for a long time. Were you afraid like Justin Bieber would get in before you?
COOPER: I was Susan Lucci for a while. Yeah. There were 15 years there that we weren`t even nominated. And then we got nominated and as soon as we got nominated, we were voted in. A lot of people thought we were already in. It was one of those things where they actually thought we were already in the hall of fame. But I think everybody`s going to get their chance to be in. I mean, you think of bands like the Moody Blues, Donovan. Deep Purple. I mean, there are so many great acts that have been around for 40 years.
BEHAR: Yes. And the Moody Blues, I mean, they were phenomenal in their day.
COOPER: Yes, and still are. They`re amazing.
BEHAR: They`re still touring?
COOPER: All of those bands are still touring. Yes.
BEHAR: Wow. Bet they sell out handicapped parking.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So what do you think of Lady Gaga, while I`m on the topic of her?
COOPER: You know, I like Lady Gaga for one really good reason. There`s the fact that she sings. She`s a good singer. She writes a lot of her material.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: She designs her shows. She pretty much -- she does everything. She`s kind of the -- she`s a cross between Mae West and Madonna and Liberace.
BEHAR: Well, Madonna -- yeah, Liberace, why not. I mean, but some people have said that she`s copying Madonna. Do you think so?
COOPER: No, I think she took it further than Madonna. Madonna was more of a sex symbol. I don`t think Lady Gaga is a sex symbol.
BEHAR: That`s a good point, yes.
COOPER: I think Lady Gaga is more of a spectacle, which I really like, and she goes for it.
BEHAR: It`s more like you.
COOPER: Yeah. I mean, if you`re going to do it, do it. If you say welcome to my nightmare, don`t just say it, do it. Give them the nightmare, you know?
BEHAR: Yeah. Did you actually bite the head of a live chicken or is that a --
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: That`s not a real--
COOPER: The story behind it is actually more dastardly than that. It has a different twist to it. Somebody threw a chicken on stage in Toronto. I picked up the chicken, thinking, you know, I`m from Detroit, I`ve never been on a farm in my life. It had feathers. It`s a bird. It should fly.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I picked it up and I kind of tossed it into the audience, figuring it would just kind of fly away.
BEHAR: A real chicken?
COOPER: Yeah, a real chicken.
BEHAR: A real chicken.
COOPER: And it didn`t fly as much as it plummeted. And the audience tore it to pieces.
BEHAR: Oh my God! How horrible!
COOPER: And threw the parts back up on stage. And next day in the paper it was Alice Cooper kills chicken on stage. And Frank Zappa called me up and he said, "did you really kill a chicken on stage last night?" I went, no. He said, well, don`t tell anybody, they love it. You know?
The kicker to the story is the first two rows at that audience were all in wheelchairs. They were the ones that tore the chicken to pieces.
BEHAR: Oh my God.
COOPER: Which I thought was even more odd than if I would have done it.
BEHAR: It`s like the Donner party on wheels.
COOPER: It was.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: How horrible. That is scary.
COOPER: Well, first of all, who brings a chicken to the concert?
BEHAR: Well, that, I can understand. But tearing the chicken apart--
COOPER: Wait a minute. Yeah, I got my tickets, I got my wallet, I got my--
BEHAR: Got my chicken.
COOPER: -- drugs, I got my chicken.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s funny. Now, you know, what -- how has "Cabaret" influence you? The movie "Cabaret?" I think it was Liza Minnelli who said that.
COOPER: Yeah. Well, I think it was the fact that our show had that quality to it. It had this kind of a dark sexual quality to it. And we didn`t mind wearing the makeup that was not really well done. It was kind of smeared on and it was kind of white (ph) and it had that kind of sideshow look to it. And I think that that`s what I meant when I said "Cabaret." It was sort of like you walk in and you see the show, here`s the big show and then here`s the sideshow that you don`t really want to go to, but you really do want to go to.
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: That was us.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
COOPER: You know.
BEHAR: By the way, what brand of mascara do you use?
COOPER: This is actually whatever I find. It`s grease paint. I go - - very glamorous.
BEHAR: What do you have on -- what do you have on right now? Your eyebrows look a little weird.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: Oh, no, they -- I`m sorry. Oh my God, a faux pas.
COOPER: No, are they?
BEHAR: Those are really your eyebrows?
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: No, come on.
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: Let me see. Those are not stained at all?
COOPER: No. I don`t get real eyebrows -- oh, what do you mean? Are these my real eyebrows?
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: Yeah.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Well, wait a minute. Nobody 63 years old has dark hair. You know? If you go to one of these, when you go to one of these rock things and you`re giving away things and everybody that comes up at 65 and they have black hair--
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah.
COOPER: The only guy with honest hair is Jimmy Page. He`s got white hair. Probably under this is a lot of gray hair.
BEHAR: Yeah. So, your real color is all white?
COOPER: Yeah, probably. Not white, but gray.
BEHAR: How does it feel to be 63 and still be a rocker? Is it great?
COOPER: You know, I`ll tell you what. I think you`re about as young as your heart is. I quit drinking 30 years ago. When I was 30, I was 63, because I was really hitting it hard.
BEHAR: Oh, it`s like the Dylan song, I was so much older then, but I`m younger than that now.
COOPER: Oh, I`m 63 now, I get up and do 90 minutes on stage. I`ve never felt better. I can go all night.
BEHAR: Because you`re not drinking or taking drugs.
COOPER: Yeah, and I`m just in good shape. I mean, I was a distance runner. I was a miler and a two-miler competitively. Play golf every day. You know, I mean, I`ve been married for 35 years to the same girl.
BEHAR: My god.
COOPER: And -- yeah.
BEHAR: Look at you.
COOPER: Never cheated on her.
BEHAR: Wow, you`re like Jerry Falwell.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: Yeah. Kind of.
BEHAR: With mascara. But I want to get to all of that in a little while. I still want to talk about being an older rocker, because I went to see the Stones at the Meadowlands or one of those big halls. They had like fire and brimstone.
COOPER: Oh, yeah.
BEHAR: It was the most fabulous show.
COOPER: It`s spec -- we opened for them in that show. We opened in about three for four cities for them.
BEHAR: Did you?
COOPER: Yeah. But Mick Jagger does a half an hour on a treadmill, and then does three hours on stage. He`s 66. 67?
BEHAR: Oh, yeah, sure, if he`s a day.
COOPER: Unbelievable. He`s a phenomenon. I mean, nobody`s in that good a shape.
BEHAR: Do you think he and Keith Richards actually like each other or not?
COOPER: Yeah, I think they do.
BEHAR: Do you think they do?
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: And I was surprised to see that Keith Richards actually writes all the music.
COOPER: Keith Richards--
BEHAR: He`s brilliant.
COOPER: -- is a modern-day medical miracle.
(LAUGHTER)
COOPER: If you got a transfusion of his blood, all of us would be dead in about an hour. But somehow, what would kill us is keeping him alive.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. So they do get along, those two?
COOPER: Yes, they do.
BEHAR: He used to say he wrote songs so that Mick would look good on stage.
COOPER: Well, I mean, back and forth, those two guys back and forth, I thought the book might have sunk the Rolling Stones.
BEHAR: But they don`t care.
COOPER: I don`t think they care at all.
BEHAR: I think they`re just happy making gazillions of dollars.
COOPER: They`re rehearsing right now for a new tour.
BEHAR: They`re a still phenomenal, you know, tour group. Just like you are.
COOPER: They`re the Stones. And we look up to the Stones, because they were -- I was in high school when the Stones came out. And we just went -- this is -- my parents hate these guys so much, I love them.
BEHAR: And your parents hated them.
COOPER: Oh, yeah.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: They liked the Beatles.
BEHAR: They liked -- well, the Beatles had that cute haircut and they were, you know, can`t find me love, it was all very nice.
COOPER: Yes, it was.
BEHAR: And the Stones were dangerous.
COOPER: The Stones were dangerous. We looked at the Stones and said, we`re going to make them look like choir boys.
BEHAR: And you did -- but I mean, in retrospect, do you think you were more dangerous than the Stones?
COOPER: I think that we were more dangerous. See, we weren`t druggies. We weren`t getting busted for drugs and things like that. I think that our terror was more cerebral. I think that when people saw us, saw the name Alice Cooper and a snake and the makeup, and they looked at their kids -- and the kids were going, yes! Because the parents were going --
BEHAR: Well, they see those, and they see the snake, and they see, you know, first of all, they see a phallic symbol. They see the makeup and they think you`re just whacked out on drugs, I guess, that`s--
COOPER: But if you have hit records, it changes the world. A hit record changes you. You go from this kind of, you know, odd little band to an important band, and then if you look like that, and you have the records to hang it on, then you`re dangerous.
BEHAR: Then you`re dangerous, right. OK. When we come back, I want to talk to you about this golf obsession. And you`re a born-again Christian? That is really interesting stuff, when we come back. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: That was shock rocker Alice Cooper meeting his match on the Muppet Show. And he`s back in now. OK, first of all, is Kermit a diva?
COOPER: Kermit was fine, it was Miss Piggy.
BEHAR: Miss Piggy is a diva.
COOPER: Yes. She was all over -- I mean she had -- there were little paw marks all over me. You know, and I had to keep -- I had to keep telling, Kermit, it`s not me, it`s her.
BEHAR: OK, now, you`re born-again Christian. Which means that -- when did that happen?
COOPER: Well, my dad was a pastor.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
COOPER: My granddad was an evangelist. My wife`s father is a pastor. And I was the prodigal son. I mean, I grew up in a church ...
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And then I went as far away as you could and then came back.
BEHAR: When did you come back?
COOPER: About 20 years ago.
BEHAR: Really?
COOPER: You know, well, I quit drinking, and that, you know, that clears you up a little bit, and it starts putting things in the perspective of what`s important, you know. I mean, how many cars do you need. How many houses do you need, how --
BEHAR: Exactly.
COOPER: That lifestyle only goes so far, and then you start thinking about what`s important.
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s right.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: But in those days, you know, Gene Simmons was on the show. I`ve heard this before from him anyway -- he claims that he had sex with 5,000 women. Do you believe that?
COOPER: At the same time?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: If that`s true, wouldn`t he be in traction at this point?
COOPER: Yes, first of all --
BEHAR: I mean, do you think it`s true?
COOPER: No, I don`t think that`s possible.
BEHAR: Well --
COOPER: After a show, I don`t think so.
BEHAR: 5,000. What about you? How many have you had?
COOPER: I think -- when I was young, I was a rock star.
BEHAR: Do you even remember?
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: No. That`s --
COOPER: I don`t remember -- I don`t remember 18 to probably 26.
BEHAR: See, that`s the beauty of the whole thing.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re an alcoholic, you`re a druggie --
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: You`re acting out, you`re having sex --
COOPER: You are rock stars!
BEHAR: You`re just -- you`re just being a bad boy all around--
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: Then you wake up, and you become a born-again Christian and you don`t even remember what you did.
COOPER: No, it`s great. You just forget about it.
(CROSSTALK)
COOPER: Yeah. It`s -- well, the good thing about it is the fact that you honestly don`t remember. There`s three albums I did that I don`t remember doing. I don`t remember writing them, I don`t remember recording them, I don`t remember performing them, and they end up being my fans` favorite albums. What? I go -- really? I kind of like these other ones that were the big hits. And they go, no, no, no, these were the ones we liked. Wow.
BEHAR: Are your fans like the Deadheads? Like the Grateful Dead had the Deadheads following them everywhere?
COOPER: Well, my fans are like -- I always appeal to the outcast. I --you know, my fans were not Eagles fans. My fans were the ...
BEHAR: I love the Eagles too.
COOPER: Eagles are great.
BEHAR: I love the Eagles.
COOPER: But my fans were those guys that didn`t relate with those fans. But there are a lot of the outcasts. There`s tons of them out there.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And I was their guy.
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
COOPER: Right. So, yes, and my fans were getting militant about this -- about this Rock and Roll Hall of Fame thing. I mean, I`m glad I got in so they calmed down a little bit.
BEHAR: Calm the masses.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: And what`s this I read that you used to go out with Raquel Welch?
COOPER: Well, my manager used to manage Raquel Welch. Now, this was right when I met my wife.
BEHAR: Ah!
COOPER: And she was 18 years old.
BEHAR: Your wife was 18.
COOPER: She was 18 years old, and she was in the show, "Walk Into My Nightmare" show. I just met her and I was in love. Just about the time that I met Raquel Welch.
BEHAR: Oh!
COOPER: And if it was any other woman, I would have, of course, gone that way, but I was in love with this little 90-pound ballerina.
BEHAR: So you never shtupped Raquel?
COOPER: No. I -- honestly, when you`re in love, you can`t even see anybody else.
BEHAR: That`s a beautiful story.
COOPER: Right? It`s true. And so, I mean it was like -- I`m still with her. And I respect Raquel Welch and I think she`s the greatest thing in the world.
BEHAR: But you never did Raquel.
COOPER: No.
BEHAR: I wonder if she regrets that?
COOPER: I don`t know. We`ll never know. Won`t we? My wife -- I say, you know, my wife always says the smartest thing you ever did.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Now, a bit -- this other thing I read about you. You have these demons, you`re talking about. Your drinking was legendary, and everything --
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: They said here that you were in rehab in a mental asylum.
COOPER: It was --
BEHAR: Why were you in a mental asylum?
COOPER: You know, I don`t know. I woke up there and I realized I was the only one in there for any kind of alcohol or drug or anything. Everybody else was in there for like chopping up their uncle and putting him in a trunk, and, you know. And -- I started going, why am I in here? You know.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I ended up writing an album about it called "From the Inside." And it was -- with Bernie Taupin, Bernie was my best friend. So I said, when I get out of here, I got so much stuff. This is so good. You know. But honestly, I started talking to people and they started giving me their stories, and I was going, really OK? You know.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I was the only one who was in there for alcohol.
BEHAR: So did it kill you? Did it help you? It helped you.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: What do you think about Charlie Sheen then? Having been where, you know ...
COOPER: Charlie`s an interesting case. And I can relate to him on one level. I was the most functional alcoholic around. I never missed a line, I never missed a show. I was totally functional on every level. And I kind of see that with him.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: He shows up, he knows his lines, makes people laugh, and then he goes crazy in his personal life.
BEHAR: Well, that`s the thing, you`re functioning in one area, but you`re not functioning in the other, I think is what`s happening--
COOPER: Yeah, well, I can see what he`s talking about. He says look, I`m doing my job, what do you want from me? Why are you even in my personal life?
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: And I kind of go, you know, I mean he may be clinically insane, but he does his job.
BEHAR: There was that discussion going on.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Is he on drugs or is he in post drugs stoop (ph) craziness, or is he really bipolar? What is it? We don`t know.
COOPER: I think he`s found some -- a wave that he`s riding --
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: -- that`s kind of working for him somehow, you know, and I don`t know if he even thinks it`s a bad thing.
BEHAR: No. So, you`re on a tour and you also have a radio show?
COOPER: Yes. I do the radio show from the road.
BEHAR: And what do you do on the radio show?
COOPER: Well, I said I`ll take this show if I can play what I want to play. First of all, I`m so tired of this top 40. We only hear the same songs over and over and over and over. I said if you let me play songs, deeper cuts, I`ll take the show. I`ve been on eight years now. And -- you did radio. You did radio.
BEHAR: I did radio. But I was talking. You`re a disc jockey?
COOPER: Yeah, I do that. Well, I mean, I tape my show. And I end up --
BEHAR: And you find music you want?
COOPER: Oh yeah, I want to play --
BEHAR: Where can we find it? I want to listen to it.
COOPER: It streams all over the place. It`s Alice at Night with Alice Cooper.
BEHAR: Aha.
COOPER: You know. And it`s really a fun show because I know all the backstage stories, too. I can tell stories about -- about everybody.
BEHAR: You know, and you`re living to tell it.
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: You know, you`re here, which is great. You know.
COOPER: Well, I mostly tell stories about people that are dead, so they can`t, you know, deny it. You know.
BEHAR: OK, when we come back, tell me one short story about -- a horrible story about someone who`s dead, all right?
COOPER: OK.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Rock and Roll Hall of Famer Alice Cooper. What did you say?
COOPER: I said sometimes I see those films, that scares me a little bit.
BEHAR: So, first, before we get to the story about a dead person, I hear you have a restaurant and you name the dishes after famous people.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: If I were a dish, what would you ...
COOPER: Oh, you`d be great.
BEHAR: Would it be tongue?
COOPER: Oh, that would be good because we don`t have a tongue. We have a two-foot hot dog called The Big Unit.
BEHAR: Who`s that named after? Hello?
COOPER: Randy Johnson, the pitcher is called the Big Unit. But every time we serve it, the sirens go off, an alarm goes off. You know, and Big Unit coming through -- and you put it down, and that`s obscene. I mean, it`s like that big. But it`s a really great hot dog.
BEHAR: This is in Phoenix, Arizona.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Phoenix, Arizona.
COOPER: It`s called Cooperstown.
BEHAR: Well, there was a Cooperstown in New York State ...
COOPER: Well, it`s Alice Cooper`s town.
BEHAR: Oh, Alice Cooper`s town. Right. So -- That`s great.
COOPER: Yeah, but we do change the sandwiches all the time. If you want a sandwich, we`ll ...
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I want (ph) a tongue sandwich.
COOPER: OK.
BEHAR: Although no one -- no one buys tongue.
COOPER: No, they would.
BEHAR: So just say it`s tongue and then give them ham.
COOPER: We`ll give them pastrami.
BEHAR: Exactly. All right. OK. So, who is the dead person?
COOPER: All right. Elvis Presley.
BEHAR: Oh yes!
COOPER: Yes. I went to meet Elvis Presley, I went upstairs, I get in the elevator, it`s Liza Minnelli, Chubby Checker, Linda Lovelace and me. Interesting group. We go upstairs, Elvis comes out, and Elvis looked great. It was 1962 ...
BEHAR: This was not the fat Elvis?
COOPER: Oh, no, this was the good Elvis ...
BEHAR: Yeah, the thin Elvis.
COOPER: And he comes out, he says, hey man, you`re the cat with the snake, aren`t you? I said yes. He said, cool man, he said, come here, I want to show you something. I go in the other room, he opens a drawer in the bath -- in the kitchen, takes out a loaded .38, puts it in my hand. And he says, OK, man, I just want to show you how to take this gun out of somebody`s hand.
I`m standing with a loaded .38 on Elvis. A little guy on my shoulder is going, shoot him. You know? And I go, I can`t shoot him, he`s Elvis Presley. And the other guy says, don`t shoot him, wound him. So I didn`t do either one. He knocks the gun out of my hand, he has my -- boot to my throat, and I`m like that`s great, Elvis. That`s great, you know. But he was an interesting character, because he was so protected that he didn`t have a life.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: And I realized at that point I never wanted to be that big--
BEHAR: Right.
COOPER: Where you couldn`t go out and go to the movies, you couldn`t go shopping. You couldn`t --
BEHAR: Oh, it`s awful.
COOPER: No, he was so protected that his big thing in life was he got in a fight with three guys and he had the police reports. And he showed me these police reports like they were gold.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: I kicked this guy right here and broke his arm, and I hit -- you know, and he`s showing -- his eyes are big. And he`s showing them to me like this, and I`m going, that`s your favorite -- that`s your most prized possession?
BEHAR: Right. And not exactly.
COOPER: Shocking. Yes.
BEHAR: And just like no conversation at all.
COOPER: None. I mean, the guy -- he couldn`t do anything.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: Interesting guy. I mean, did you know him when he was bloated?
COOPER: Didn`t -- I didn`t -- I saw him after that a little bit when he popped up out of a car one time, "hey, Alice, how are you doing?" And all I saw was this guy pulling him back.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: And that`s our show. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
