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Joy Behar Page
Paula & Simon Reunited; "Jersey Shore" Grounded; Interview With Dick Van Dyke
Aired May 09, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: The MTV series "Jersey Shore" may not be shooting in Italy any time soon after Florence decided to pull the show`s shooting permits. And Snooki`s not taking the news lightly. She released a statement. She said, "Hey, I don`t know who this Florence is, but tell her we`ve got a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) show to shoot."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, with the bin Laden tapes released, we get an inside look at the terrorist`s lair. And Joy will explain what else the SEALs found in the Osama raid including herbal Viagra.
Then, it`s official. Simon Cowell is reuniting with Paula Abdul for the "X Factor".
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PAULA ABDUL, FORMER JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": I said it was a safe performance.
SIMON COWELL, FORMER JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": Safe? What was safe about it.
ABDUL: Ok. Help me out here.
RANDY JACKSON, JUDGE, "AMERICAN IDOL": No, no, no, no.
COWELL: You can`t answer the question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So, will it be just like the old days?
Plus the legendary Dick Van Dyke is here. He`ll tell Joy why he became one of the first stars to open up about alcoholism.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: President Obama`s first interview since bin Laden`s death aired last night on CBS`s "60 Minutes". Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As nervous as I was about this whole process, the one thing I didn`t lose sleep over was the possibility of taking bin Laden out. Justice was done. And I think that anyone who would question that the perpetrator of mass murder on American soil didn`t deserve what he got, needs to have their head examined.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here now, is the man who interviewed him, "60 Minutes" correspondent Steve Kroft. Hi Steve.
STEVE KROFT, CORRESPONDENT, "60 MINUTES": Hi, Joy.
BEHAR: You know, just to go off of that for a second, some people criticized the taking out of bin Laden. I mean, the Archbishop of Canterbury said he was objecting to the fact that he was unarmed. Michael Moore sort of didn`t like the idea. He wanted him to come to trial like the Nuremberg Trials.
What do you make of all that criticism, before we get into the interview?
KROFT: I think the President just said what was on his mind in that clip. And also, people tend to forget that this killing was essentially sanctioned at the highest levels of the U.S. government. And there were orders that had been passed to the troops that if you have him in your sights, take him out. Shoot.
BEHAR: Yes. I mean Bush famously said, "Wanted dead or alive," didn`t he?
KROFT: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes.
KROFT: And I think that it would have been -- I`m pretty sure -- I know that the people at the CIA and people at the Pentagon wanted him dead, not alive, simply because it would have created massive problems for the United States.
BEHAR: Well, he wasn`t a head of state. He`s just a thug. He`s a criminal in the world.
KROFT: Mass murderer.
BEHAR: Yes, a mass murderer. He`s not someone who`s running a country.
KROFT: Right.
BEHAR: So how did you get the interview with the President?
KROFT: Called up. We called up last Sunday night. And as soon as we found out -- we had a few hours` notice, I think just about the time the raid was over -- not long after the raid was over. So we called. And we`ve had a long history with him. I`ve interviewed him, I`m guessing, probably ten times.
BEHAR: Yes.
KROFT: Beginning with his announcement for president when it was just Obama and Robert Gibbs and David Axelrod and David Plouffe; that was it. That was their whole team. So we spent a lot of time together. And I think he likes the number of people that watch "60 Minutes", and I think that he likes the credibility it shows in the past.
BEHAR: "60 Minutes" deserves it. They deserve it. They`ve been a great show for many, many moons.
You and I were just -- during the break, we were talking about how we saw each other at the Christmas Party, the White House Christmas Party. And everyone`s having a wonderful time. He was sort of, like -- he was getting bad press at that time. But he looked ebullient and wonderful and handsome as he always does.
Imagine that. He knew that this thing was going to happen even then, didn`t he?
KROFT: Yes. He found out last August, and they started training for it, as he said, shortly after the beginning of the year.
BEHAR: So he`s had to put up with a lot of attacks. I mean, why didn`t he close Guantanamo? Guantanamo, you know -- all of that stuff. Why are we still in Afghanistan. Well, this was going on trying to get him, you know?
KROFT: Yes. And not being able to tell anybody. And he didn`t tell anybody.
BEHAR: No. Boy, does he know how to keep a secret. Do you think he told Michelle?
KROFT: Hard to say.
BEHAR: What do you think?
KROFT: He said he didn`t. He said that he didn`t tell his own family. I don`t know. That`s hard to --
BEHAR: That means Malia and Sasha. That doesn`t mean pillow talk --
(CROSSTALK)
KROFT: Or it means his staff, right?
BEHAR: Yes, right.
KROFT: His own family here at the White House.
BEHAR: He didn`t call his sister.
KROFT: Yes. I don`t know, it`s hard to tell.
BEHAR: You know, you`re married, right?
KROFT: Yes.
BEHAR: Husbands and wives tell each other everything, let`s face it.
KROFT: They do. They do.
BEHAR: So I think he told her. I`m just saying.
KROFT: We don`t tell them everything. We tell them most things.
BEHAR: Well, you`re not going to I`m cheating on you, but when you say, I`m going to capture bin Laden and we got him, we`re going to get him, you have to tell it; probably improved their sex life. Ok.
Sorry, Steve. It`s this show. It`s not "60 Minutes".
Let`s watch another clip from last night`s interview.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KROFT: Mr. President, was this the most satisfying week of your presidency?
OBAMA: Well, it was certainly one of the most satisfying weeks not only for my presidency but I think for the United States since I`ve been president.
For us to be able to definitively say we got the man who caused thousands of deaths here in the United States was something that I think all of us were profoundly grateful to be a part of.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What do you think this will do for him politically, this capture?
KROFT: I think that it`s too early to tell. There`s still a long time away to the next presidential election. You have to remember that George Bush essentially lost the election. Even after --
BEHAR: The first George Bush.
KROFT: Right. Even after a very successful war against -- to get --
BEHAR: Hussein.
KROFT: -- Hussein out of Kuwait, because of the economy. And the economy, I think, is still going to be the key to the election.
The one thing it will help him with, I think, is that I think it will improve his stature as a commander-in-chief.
BEHAR: Definitely.
KROFT: I think that the arguments that he`s sort of another -- that people have tried to make on the Republican side that he`s inexperienced and sort of wishy-washy, I think he`s answered that question.
BEHAR: Well, they can`t continue to call him a candy ass when he`s taken out the major terrorist in the world.
KROFT: Right.
BEHAR: Really hard.
KROFT: And I think that he handled himself really well in this interview, and he handled himself really well all the way through.
BEHAR: But, you know, he`s not a guy to gloat. The way that he presents himself is just, I think, it`s a lesson in how to behave. He doesn`t gloat. He doesn`t brag. He`s very even, the way he described what happened. He`s not saying, you see what I did? You know, mission accomplished and all that stuff we had to endure. It`s just delightful to watch him.
KROFT: One of his aides told me before the interview that they had been with him the whole day before. This would have been Tuesday, two days after the raid. And he went through a full schedule in the day and never once mentioned bin Laden to them.
BEHAR: Yes.
KROFT: And everybody was asking about it. And he`d give them one answer, and then they would go on to the business that was at hand.
There was one little bit in this interview that I really liked. All the things that he had to do -- you don`t really understand the life of a President of the United States, as he said. You have to be able to do more than one thing at a time. To go to the White House Correspondents` Dinner and do that whole routine about Donald Trump and know that in a few hours, you know, people were already getting ready and saddling up to carry out this raid.
BEHAR: It was a big risk that he took, political risk. I mean, can you imagine if it had failed or if anybody had died that shouldn`t die? It would have been terrible.
But he just took out Donald Trump that night. It was unbelievable to watch. It was like, bin Laden, Trump. You know? It`s fantastic.
I mean, even Dick Cheney had to give him kudos. I saw him in an interview.
KROFT: Oh, did you?
BEHAR: Yes, he was sitting there saying, well, you have to give him credit. I mean it`s a new day.
KROFT: Yes.
BEHAR: And you did a great job with him. I loved it.
KROFT: Oh, thank you very much.
BEHAR: I enjoyed the interview very much. And thanks for doing this, Steve.
KROFT: No problem. Glad to be here.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Princess Kate`s sister, Pippa Middleton, is offered $5 million to appear in a porn movie.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Pippa Middleton made quite a splash at the royal wedding in that form-fitting bridesmaid`s dress. And now Vivid Entertainment is offering her $5 million to take it off and star in one of their pornos.
With me now to discuss this and other stories in the news, are comedienne and co-creator of "The Daily Show," Lizz Winstead; Chuck Nice comedian and host of the "The Hot 10" on Centric; and Rebecca Dana, senior correspondent for "Newsweek" and the "Daily Beast". Hello, guys.
CHUCK NICE, COMEDIAN: Hey.
LIZZ WINSTEAD, COMEDIAN: Hi Joy.
BEHAR: All right, should she do it, Chuck -- Pippa? Only one scene, one explicit scene.
NICE: I -- I would -- I would watch it, you know. I wouldn`t pay for it. But I`ll certainly watch the trailers or download the trailers online.
BEHAR: But if you were going to advise her? I mean --
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: No.
BEHAR: -- she`s in the royal family now.
NICE: Oh that would be the end of her.
BEHAR: $5 million is a lot of money.
NICE: Yes. That is a lot of money --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: For her.
NICE: -- and especially for one scene.
BEHAR: And she`s posing in a brassiere anyway in some shot video that they have of her, right?
WINSTEAD: Her sister is funded by the country of Great Britain. She does not need any money. So there`s no --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why, is she going to get that money? No.
WINSTEAD: She`s going to be taken care of. She`s her lady-in- waiting.
REBECCA DANA, SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, NEWSWEEK & THE DAILY BEAST: She`s a lady-in-waiting.
WINSTEAD: Yes.
BEHAR: She`ll be a lady-in-waiting.
WINSTEAD: Yes.
DANA: You know who I feel bad for here? I feel bad for Fergie. I mean --
BEHAR: I know.
DANA: -- Fergie would do a porno for, like, $25, don`t you think?
NICE: Yes.
DANA: She`s selling access to Prince Andrew. She`ll be on any television show that wants her.
BEHAR: Poor Fergie.
DANA: Throw Fergie like a grand and she`ll do like a whole catalogue.
BEHAR: But they treated Fergie badly. And that`s why --
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: They did.
BEHAR: -- she has to lower herself to make money. It`s so wrong. I like Fergie.
WINSTEAD: Any poor royal, anything really. My heart bleeds constantly for those --
BEHAR: Oh, I can`t stand the royals but I like Fergie.
DANA: I love Fergie. I love her.
BEHAR: She`s -- she`s my goddess.
WINSTEAD: Yes, she sold out those rich people to try to get some cash. I do like that about her.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes, exactly.
WINSTEAD: Yes.
BEHAR: Now this -- this company, Vivid --
NICE: Yes.
BEHAR: -- they also offered $1 million to her brother, to Pippa`s brother, and Kate`s brother --
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: Right.
BEHAR: -- after nude pics of him surfaced online.
Now, what`s up with the Middletons? The -- the -- the Princess -- whatever she is now -- what is she?
WINSTEAD: She`s the something of Cambridge.
DANA: Catherine the Duchess.
NICE: The Duchess.
BEHAR: The Duchess. Yes.
WINSTEAD: She`s the something of I Cambridge. Maybe they can call the movie that.
BEHAR: The Duchess shows up in a put-on outfit -- remember to hook the Prince.
NICE: Yes, on the run way. That`s right.
BEHAR: Pippa is in the brassiere dancing on the table or whatever, and now there`s the son -- the son of the Middletons is also posing nude.
NICE: It sounds like a smart family.
DANA: It`s not. You know, it`s not the Middletons, it`s the British. British people just love to take their clothes off, especially British men. They like to put on French maid outfits and take pictures of themselves in -- in --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you think all gay -- all men in Britain are gay?
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: Do you think all men in Britain are on "Benny Hill"?
DANA: Yes and yes.
NICE: Affirmative.
BEHAR: All right, ok.
Now, moving on, Simon Cowell and Paula Abdul are officially reuniting as judges on Cowell`s new show "X Factor." Why? Two words, ca-ching.
NICE: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, what -- what do you think about that, Miss Rebecca?
DANA: I think they`ve gone through really, like, unnecessary elaborate measures just to get rid of that Randy. I mean, they`ve reconstituted the show just without, like, yo dawg Randy. Couldn`t they have just fired him?
BEHAR: I wonder why they don`t then if they don`t want him there.
DANA: Well, he`s still -- isn`t he still on the other one?
BEHAR: He`s on "American Idol" yes.
NICE: He`s a --
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: He`s a national treasure.
BEHAR: Who?
DANA: Randy.
BEHAR: Randy? But you know what? Simon said that he would pull the plug on the show if they didn`t get -- if they didn`t hire Paula. Maybe these two just should jump in the sack already. Something`s going on there with these two.
WINSTEAD: Well, I mean who cares -- really, I know. But what does Paula Abdul add except psychosis?
NICE: That`s it.
WINSTEAD: Right?
DANA: Yes.
NICE: But that`s -- that`s highly entertaining.
DANA: Affirmative.
BEHAR: She released a statement, Paula released a statement about it and she said, "Where am I?" Now, aren`t we a little oversaturated by "The X Factor," "American Idol," "Dancing with the Stars," "The Voice," it looped (ph) already. "America`s Got Talent."
NICE: Yes.
BEHAR: How many of these can we watch?
WINSTEAD: You know what, I would like to see one where someone`s talent devolves like they start out talented and then they get worse and worse and worse.
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: Worse and worse and worse.
WINSTEAD: And then they have a bad marriage. And they start using.
NICE: I believe -- I believe that show was called Lindsay Lohan.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: Or "Two and a Half Men".
DANA: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. But, I mean, I`m sick of those shows, aren`t you?
DANA: Yes. We need a new idea. Guess what --
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: Because you know what in America, you don`t have that much talent, turns out. It turns out.
BEHAR: Yes, but you`re not that talented. That`s a good title for a show.
WINSTEAD: Hey, America, go to community college.
DANA: Yes, get seven out of ten on the sell test.
BEHAR: Yes.
Ok, now here`s another story. Filming for the fourth season of "Jersey Shore" in Italy has been delayed after officials in Florence revoked permits to shoot at historic locations at the last minute. I think they were afraid Snooki would try to hook up with the statue of David.
DANA: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, it`s like you know, there`s the David, there`s the (INAUDIBLE) and there`s "The Situation". We don`t need that in Florence, do we? And they don`t want them there now.
NICE: No. I mean, when you look at all of the great cultural contributions by the Italians, they would probably allow them in the country if they denounced the fact that they were Italian. If they actually say none of us are Italian, ok come on in.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
NICE: But right now, the Italian CDC was like, we`ve got to stop this before it becomes a pandemic.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes, well Snooki is Chilean -- just saying, she`s not Italian.
WINSTEAD: She`s a Chilean?
BEHAR: Yes, "The Situation" probably is, right? Yes and what about J-Woww? She`s -- no she`s not either, I don`t think. They`re half. They`re not fully Italian.
NICE: Yes.
BEHAR: But I mean, to bring this skivvy (ph) group to Florence where the Renaissance started and ended.
NICE: Right.
BEHAR: I mean, where these -- the most brilliant art in the world is located, to bring them in there and sully, the Italian nail, I find objectionable.
NICE: Yes.
WINSTEAD: Right.
DANA: I remember once a few years --
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: No I would love to say, did -- no one would let me finish.
NICE: Oh I`m sorry.
BEHAR: Oh go ahead.
WINSTEAD: I was about to say like they did over and then you all jumped on me.
BEHAR: Ok.
NICE: I`m sorry.
DANA: Go ahead.
WINSTEAD: I`m about to go to Rome.
DANA: Go ahead.
WINSTEAD: Oh, no.
BEHAR: What were you about to say?
NICE: We`ll never know.
WINSTEAD: I well, go ahead.
DANA: I was going to say, a few years ago Hugh Hefner brought his three girlfriends to Italy and one of them Kendra Wilkinson who is now married to some sort of athlete and is popping out children.
BEHAR: Yes.
DANA: Declared that the -- that the food at Olive Garden was much better than any of the food in Italy. And it was like a scandal. The nation was rocked with scandal.
BEHAR: Oh I love that.
DANA: So I wonder if maybe they`ve learned their lesson.
BEHAR: That`s great.
WINSTEAD: They also -- look at you know Berlusconi. Like all of a sudden there`s some moral imperative in Italy when he was you know having sex with an underage teenager named -- like have sex with me down there whatever her name was. She changed her name from something to like Heartbreaker, Suzy Heartbreaker.
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: Yes I mean --
WINSTEAD: It`s different.
BEHAR: It`s different -- it`s like a lot of Italians, they find Berlusconi objectionable, too. And anyway, that`s politics. It`s separate from art.
WINSTEAD: So this is sort of like when the Brady Bunch went to Hawaii.
BEHAR: Not exactly.
WINSTEAD: In Hawaii.
(CROSSTALK)
NICE: Well, it would be like that if the Brady Bunch gave the Tiki God herpes.
BEHAR: There you go.
(CROSSTALK)
DANA: I just think -- I think if only New Jersey would follow suit and revoke their filming permits then we`d be on it.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. When we come back, I want to talk a little about the "Oprah Winfrey Show". We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
You know, ratings are droppings and heads are rolling at the Oprah Winfrey Network. Do you think they`re figuring out nice doesn`t work? Let`s find out.
What do you think? Because, you know, that is her thing, nice.
NICE: Yes, I wish she had nice on her network. Hey, Oprah, if you really want nice to work for you, hello.
BEHAR: Chuck Nice.
NICE: Chuck Nice is what I`m telling about.
BEHAR: We need to (INAUDIBLE) your name.
NICE: Exactly.
BEHAR: Well, I mean nice has been her thing.
NICE: You know, here`s the thing. If you look at cable and the programming on cable, you know what? You have, like, a show called "Animal Wars", and then she wants to do a show about how people overcome eating disorders. It`s a race to the bottom right now on cable. Nobody wants to watch, you know, actual positive programming on cable television.
BEHAR: Well, is that the reason that it`s having trouble with the ratings or is it that you can`t find it on the channels there? It`s, like, where is it?
WINSTEAD: I think it`s because Oprah`s brand is really undefined. You know, you look at "Martha Stewart Living", and that`s a brand. She helps you cook, she helps your house look better, you garden. What is Oprah`s brand?
NICE: Awesomeness. Awesomeness.
WINSTEAD: There`s no tangibility to that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The problem is that her brand is her.
NICE: Is her.
BEHAR: That`s the problem.
WINSTEAD: Well, the problem to her -- she also has a lot of closed- offness. If your brand`s going to be you -- we hear about Steve all the time from you. We don`t know what she and Stedman do and how they hang out and what they like.
BEHAR: Do you really? I don`t think that that`s the issue. I think it`s that people want her on the shows. And she can`t be everywhere.
WINSTEAD: But that`s her only brand is her. And even her -- even though that`s the case, that part of her, she`s got closed-off stuff, you know? People who are really open about their lives are ones who can really go forward.
BEHAR: What you`re basically saying -- it`s interesting what you`re saying. You`re saying that she can have a show because she is the brand, but she can`t have a network because she doesn`t have a cooking segment or a gardening segment like Martha would have.
DANA: What she tried to do is develop all these personalities. I mean, she doesn`t have a cooking segment, she has Rachael Ray. She doesn`t have -- you know, she`s tried to create these people who then can sort of, like, be the baseball team of Oprah -- the Oprah team.
BEHAR: Maybe she should put them all up -- Rachael on the network, put Dr. Phil on the network.
NICE: Dr. Phil on the network.
(CROSSTALK)
WINSTEAD: Well, that`s what it is. Who are her philosophies? You know what, Jim Kramer, for example. You know he`s a finance guy. So if he did a financial network, he would be doing all these different aspects of money. Oprah doesn`t have a there, there with which to branch out from is what I`m saying. Except for as you said what she did was how she`s built some kind of emotional lifestyle network.
DANA: It`s like a New-Agey defending your spirit kind of thing. Like you go to Oprah for like a feel-good, religious puffer.
WINSTEAD: Well, it`s like my dad said. He goes, you know, if Oprah is so inspirational, how come her ratings go down? Why don`t people suddenly leave the TV and go do what she says?
DANA: Well, I think that gets to a larger point which is why the show remained as successful as it did where the network is failing -- shorter doses. People like nice but people only want like 42 minutes of nice. They don`t want 24 hours.
BEHAR: There were a lot of changes like Meredith Vieira is leaving the "Today" show. What do you think about that. She`s leaving on a high. Meredith is not -- is not -- what`s the word -- addicted to that red light.
DANA: You know, good for her.
BEHAR: Bye.
WINSTEAD: I think she`s --
BEHAR: Fantastic.
NICE: I think it`s great. Who says good-bye -- I`m breaking up with you, "Today" show. It`s not me, it`s you. Like that`s pretty awesome.
BEHAR: They`re going to miss her, I`ll tell you, because she`s great on that show.
WINSTEAD: She is great on that show.
BEHAR: You can catch Chuck Nice -- nice as in Oprah -- on the Hot Ten on Centric. Where is that?
NICE: That`s right next to the OWN network, and I`m not lying.
BEHAR: Ok.
NICE: I swear to God. If you find OWN, I`m right next to it.
BEHAR: Ok. And he`s on every Saturday morning at 10:00. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Dick Van Dyke has had an incredible life as an actor, singer, dancer, and along the way he befriended everyone from Walt Disney to Martin Luther King. His new book is called "My Lucky Life in and out of Show Business." He`s a genuine Hollywood legend, and tonight he`s all mine. You`re mine! You`re mine tonight.
VAN DYKE: And I`m happy to be yours tonight.
BEHAR: And I -- yes. Now, "My Lucky Life," has it all been lucky, Dick?
VAN DYKE: It seemed like it to me. When they came to me to write a book, I said, well, my life`s kind of bland, really. But as I started talking about it, I realized almost everything that happened to me was because I was in the right place at the right time.
BEHAR: Well --
VAN DYKE: I just lucked into it.
BEHAR: -- you had talent also. Come on. You`re too modest.
VAN DYKE: Well, you`ve got to be able to deliver once you get the break.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right. That`s right. How old are you now?
VAN DYKE: 85 years old.
BEHAR: 85 years old. And all the hair is still there? Your skin looks good. You still look great. I mean --
VAN DYKE: Thank you. Good genes, I guess.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. I think so.
VAN DYKE: If I had taken better care -- what is the old line? If I`d known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now first you thought Mary was wrong for the role on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Well, she was I thought too young. She was about 12 years younger than I. And I said to Carl, she`s pretty, and she is a good actress, but can she be funny? I`m probably the last person ever to ask that question.
BEHAR: Well, they remember in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" when she did that incredible laughing (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: With the clown, the clown?
BEHAR: With the clown. Remember that?
VAN DYKE: Oh, that was one of the greatest episodes I ever saw.
BEHAR: That was something, I think.
VAN DYKE: She just had it.
BEHAR: I don`t think people realize how hard it is to cry and laugh and cry and laugh like that and make it funny.
VAN DYKE: She was the best crier on television.
BEHAR: Yes. But it`s hard to cry funny.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. The minute she said -- the first time she said, oh Rob, I said, we`re home.
BEHAR: Oh, Rob! OK, you and Mary were very funny together on "The Dick Van Dyke Show." So let`s look at a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Little guys like that develop powerful crushes on their teachers. Boy, I remember I had a teacher that I would have married in a minute. Miss Eisenstad (ph), gorgeous redhead with a figure like you never--
MARY TYLER MOORE, ACTRESS: What year was this?
VAN DYKE: Third.
MOORE: Grade school.
VAN DYKE: No, college.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You were hot for her, weren`t you, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Yes, I had a real crush on her.
BEHAR: You really did.
VAN DYKE: And she claims she had one on me, too. Which is I think why it worked so well. A lot of people thought we were married in real life.
BEHAR: But you never actually consummated.
VAN DYKE: Oh, no, not in those days, no.
BEHAR: No consummation.
VAN DYKE: No consummation.
BEHAR: Let me talk about some of the things in your book that were kind of, you know, some demons in your life.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You say your life wasn`t interesting. You had a bout with alcoholism. I mean, you were married and divorced and women died on you. I mean, you know, you`ve had some things happen to you.
VAN DYKE: They keep dying on me.
BEHAR: You know. But let`s talk about the alcoholism. Were you really an alcoholic, a real one, or were you just a tippler?
VAN DYKE: Well, I always thought I was just a heavy drinker, but they told me, you know, you`re an alcoholic. You have to own up to that.
What happened, I worked nightclubs in my 20s and never drank. I was a teetotaler. And in my early 30s, I had always been kind of shy. And trouble with strangers, I`d break out in a sweat. And I found a martini or two, and I suddenly became uninhibited and I thought funny. And -- I never drank in public or at work or anything of that kind. But I had too many at home, you know, five and six became eight or nine. And I would go to work with a hangover.
BEHAR: Eight or nine martinis?
VAN DYKE: Not all together. No, I found other things.
BEHAR: But hard liquor. Now, we`re not talking even a glass of wine. We`re talking about hard alcohol.
VAN DYKE: Yes, alcohol, vodka and things of that kind.
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: What?
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: No, I was -- I had an empty -- a hollow leg, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: No, I never fell down or anything. And the strange thing was, I never slurred my speech. My wife could never tell. I did a sketch about that. But anyway, I realized -- I tried to quit and couldn`t. I had to have that drink in the evening. So that`s when I went for help.
BEHAR: What would happen to you if you couldn`t get that drink at night? What would happen to you?
VAN DYKE: Nervousness, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: I think I probably could have bypassed it, but I just didn`t have the will.
BEHAR: You didn`t want to.
VAN DYKE: I didn`t want to, right.
BEHAR: You did not want to. Did you go to AA?
VAN DYKE: I went to AA, went to rehab. And in those days, it was before the rehab. They locked you up with the psychos.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: I was in a room with a guy who saw little guys in top hats dancing across his chest.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: And I thought, I`ve got to get out of here.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So it`s like the bins (ph), they used to call it, right? You were in the bins (ph) with the--
VAN DYKE: Oh, God.
BEHAR: So they would mix alcoholics with mentally ill people?
VAN DYKE: And people -- people crazy, yes.
BEHAR: That is unbelievable.
VAN DYKE: Yes. Well, they put -- they bumped them all together psychologically. You know, there was something wrong mentally with the person who drank.
BEHAR: What about AA? You never went to AA?
VAN DYKE: I did. I went to AA, too.
BEHAR: Did that help you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Yes.
BEHAR: That helps a lot of people.
VAN DYKE: AA is a marvelous organization.
BEHAR: And you know, the thing about you is you were early to come out with your addiction. A lot of people in those days used to keep it under wraps, but you actually told it.
VAN DYKE: Yes, it was in the early `70s. You remember Mercedes McCambridge, the actress?
BEHAR: Oh, yes, sure.
VAN DYKE: She was the first one to ever come out. She went before Congress. And I thought, this is a good way to remove that stigma, you know, that it`s not skid-row bums and people with no will power. I`m a middle-class guy, and it happened to me. So -- I`m glad I did that. It`s gotten -- I`ve gotten a lot of good feedback from it.
BEHAR: Well, that was good of you, because then Oprah came along and Phil Donahue and everybody was claiming to be an alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: Yes, well, nobody today hadn`t been to rehab.
BEHAR: And where are you going to meet a man if you don`t go to AA these days? Match.com doesn`t work as well as AA meetings.
VAN DYKE: People -- they use it to network who aren`t even alcoholics.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now, all this time you were what they call a functioning alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: That`s (inaudible).
BEHAR: Because you were working on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Sure.
BEHAR: And other things you were doing, "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Do some of those dance numbers with a hangover, it`s hard.
BEHAR: And how did you get through supercalifragilistic- expialidocious when you were drunk?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was never drunk. I never was drunk at work, ever.
BEHAR: No?
VAN DYKE: No, I didn`t do that.
BEHAR: So you didn`t really start drinking until you went home?
VAN DYKE: That`s correct.
BEHAR: I see.
VAN DYKE: I`d go home and have my martini and then another one. That was the problem.
BEHAR: OK, all right. We`re going to take a break. And when we come back, I want to find out how you became a love child. I love that. We`ll be right back with a little surprise also for Dick. Yeah.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews in the classic "Mary Poppins." She`s a great girl, Julie, she`s a lovely person.
VAN DYKE: Oh, what a lady.
BEHAR: Now, at 18, you found out you were a love child. Now, you told me you`re 85 now. So this is back in the day when a love child was something to be ashamed of. Nowadays, everyone`s a love child.
VAN DYKE: You`re right. But this was 1925 when I was born.
BEHAR: Wow. Yes, yes, yes.
VAN DYKE: It was during the war, and my mother was washing dishes. I was drying. And I said, you know, mom, I`m going to get drafted. And I think I`d better join something like the Air Force, because I`m going to be 18 in March. She said, I have something to tell you. You`re already 18. I said, what? And she said, well, you were premature. Oh, you had no fingernails or anything. And my grandmother said, baloney.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Grandma, she said -- she said the truth.
VAN DYKE: But in those days, we lived in Danville, Illinois. They went to Missouri for a few days, had me, and brought me back, because it was a terrible scandal in those days. I`m kind of proud of being a love child.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, as I said, they`re all love children now.
VAN DYKE: Of course. But you didn`t talk about that in those days. But the first time, I tell in the book, nobody knew that.
BEHAR: But your father was your biological father?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes, he was my real dad.
BEHAR: No, the parents (ph), they had a shotgun, they got married and they--
VAN DYKE: That`s right. Yes, I don`t blame them at all.
BEHAR: The other thing, another thing about you is that you were married for 35 years to your childhood sweetheart.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You got married very young.
VAN DYKE: Very young.
BEHAR: And then you fell for Michelle Triola.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, we know Michelle Triola because she was in that palimony suit--
VAN DYKE: With Lee Marvin, that`s true.
BEHAR: -- with Lee Marvin. She made palimony a word that`s in the dictionary now.
VAN DYKE: Of course, yes.
BEHAR: Yeah. So now, tell me what happened there. Such interesting stuff.
VAN DYKE: Unfortunately, the spouses of performers have a terrible, terrible life. They get shunted aside, pushed aside, ignored. And my wife, as proud as she was of me, just hated show business, for good reason. And she wanted me at about 40 to leave, to retire.
BEHAR: Leave showbiz.
VAN DYKE: And of course, I loved to perform. And on top of that, I couldn`t afford to retire at that time. And we moved to Arizona, to the desert, and kind of away from show business. And it just wasn`t working. And I had to keep working, for two reasons. I loved it, and I needed the money. And at that time, Michelle was working at William Morris, my agent. And we used to have--
BEHAR: Well, that guarantees that you`ll never work right there.
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. Go ahead. Sorry.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: You`re absolutely right.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: But we became acquainted, had lunch once in a while. And she, of course, was show business oriented and loved it and supported me. And just one of those things, as I explain in the book that happened, everything was amicable. You know, there wasn`t any -- nobody was angry or anything. It just happened.
BEHAR: It just happened.
VAN DYKE: Divorce is something that I never dreamed would happen to me. But it did.
BEHAR: It did. And you started to see Michelle.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: Triola for a long time.
VAN DYKE: Yes, we were together 37 years.
BEHAR: 37 years. How long were you with your wife?
VAN DYKE: About 30.
BEHAR: 30. And--
VAN DYKE: So I was never a bachelor.
BEHAR: No, you were never a bachelor.
VAN DYKE: I went from my mother to my wife. And to this day, I can`t bear to be alone.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, you`re a serial monogamist.
VAN DYKE: Exactly.
BEHAR: The only thing is that you never got married to Michelle. You were divorced at that point. Why didn`t you marry her?
VAN DYKE: She was a procrastinator.
BEHAR: And a palimony freak, apparently.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was all on paper. But I kept saying, come on, let`s get married, I want to get married. We will. We will. And she just kept putting it off.
BEHAR: She didn`t want to get married.
VAN DYKE: She wanted to, but she just--
BEHAR: She just didn`t (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: I guess it was that independence, you know, didn`t want to be dependent.
BEHAR: I understand it. I`m with a guy 29 years this July, and I`m not married to him.
VAN DYKE: Is that right?
BEHAR: Yes. I understand Michelle Triola.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Except if there`s any palimony, he`s going to get it from me.
Now you have -- here`s the other interesting thing. Before we go to that, we have a surprise for you. There is an old friend of yours on the phone. Hello?
CARL REINER: Hello there.
BEHAR: Who`s that voice?
REINER: I think it`s Carl Reiner.
VAN DYKE: Oh, my God, Carl!
REINER: Dick, oh, it`s so nice to hear you talk about your life. You know, I want to say one thing. I`ve known Dick for so many years and we worked together so closely. When I read his book, by the way, which I think is one of the most thrilling, exciting books to read, because he tells it all. He tells things about himself I had never dreamed were in his life.
And one of the things I remembered is what -- well, I knew he was a good person, but the way he took care of everybody. Dick, when I read about you taking care of -- Michelle Triola had been married once to a guy named Skip Ward (ph) 130 years before he met her. And when he heard later on that Skip Ward was in trouble, he took care of him on his death bed. I said, this is over and beyond the call of being a good guy.
BEHAR: That`s very nice. You`re a good person to know in case anything happens.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But Carl is the creator --
VAN DYKE: My favorite human being in the world.
BEHAR: Let`s explain to people who are under 50 that Carl created "The Dick Van Dyke Show," is a great performer.
VAN DYKE: For himself.
BEHAR: For himself. And then you got the part that he was supposed to get, right?
VAN DYKE: That`s right. The network didn`t like his performance.
BEHAR: Carl, why didn`t you -- what happened there? Tell us about--
REINER: Well, you know, I did a pilot with somebody called Barbara Billingsley. We showed it to people. They said, it was OK. And horses and guns played a lot that year, and situation comedies were out. And I went on to do some movies. I wrote the first couple of movies for Doris Day. And then somebody knew that I had written 13 episodes for myself. And they were -- (inaudible), and they were so upset that it was laying around. So they called me in to see Sheldon Leonard (ph), who had this company. And Sheldon said, we`d like to do that show. And I said, no, Sheldon, I don`t want to fail with the same material again. He says, you won`t fail because we`ll get a better actor to play you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I guess he figured that one out.
REINER: And he suggested Dick Van Dyke, and Dick was in "Bye Bye Birdie." I knew of him. I went to see him, I said, my God. I didn`t know the extent of his talent. I knew he could sing and dance, but I didn`t know that he was a totally coordinated man, the most coordinated human being I`ve ever met.
BEHAR: Very coordinated. You know, you decided to call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," Carl, right?
REINER: Yes.
BEHAR: And I read in Dick`s book that Rose Marie, who is famous -- also on "Hollywood Squares," Rose Marie to block, that`s what I call her. Rose Marie said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke? Now, why did she say that, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Because nobody ever heard of me. That`s why the show didn`t do very well.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: Everybody said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke?
REINER: By the way, that`s exactly why I promoted the fact that we should call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," because I was very upset that all kinds of game show hosts were calling the star of the show. And I said, those guys are not stars. They are game show hosts. I said, the real star of the show is Dick Van Dyke. And they said, well, nobody knows him. I said, yes, but that`s how they`ll get to know him. We`ll call this "The Dick Van Dyke Show," they`ll say, oh, that must be the guy who is star of the show, playing Rob Petrie. Anyway--
BEHAR: Carl, those were the days when people like you were running things and you created stars. Now they want you to be a star already before they give you a shot.
VAN DYKE: Overnight, yes.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s a little different these days.
VAN DYKE: It sure is.
BEHAR: Carl, thanks so much for joining us. We love you so much.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Carl.
REINER: I`ve got to say one thing before I leave.
BEHAR: OK.
REINER: I saw Joy Behar in her first incarnation when Estelle Reiner was opening for the first time in New York at Green Street (ph).
BEHAR: That`s right.
REINER: You were a young singer -- not singer, teacher, and so pretty and cute and sexy. And I said, who is that girl? And it turned out to be you, Joy Behar.
BEHAR: Thank you, Carl. And you know, we feel bad about Estelle. You know, Carl and Estelle Reiner were married for so many years.
VAN DYKE: I know.
BEHAR: She passed away a few years ago. How are you doing with that, Carl?
REINER: Well, I think of her every night. 65 years, you don`t lose somebody.
BEHAR: And you`re hanging out with Mel Brooks all the time, I hear from some of my spies. So give him our best and tell him he could come on my show if he wants to. I`d love to have him here. And you.
REINER: I will tell him that tonight.
BEHAR: OK, thank you, Carl. We`re going to have more in a minute with Dick Van Dyke when we return. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Put (inaudible) under my neck.
MOORE: Did you pay the bill?
VAN DYKE: I paid the bill. I got it. All right? That is just about everything, huh?
MOORE: How about the baby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dick Van Dyke. You know, the early sitcom that you did was just the best thing. It was just the greatest.
VAN DYKE: It was the must fun I ever had.
BEHAR: The most fun, of course. You had a great team, look -- and it clicked, it had chemistry.
Some of the people that you`ve run into along the way, just -- before we have to go, because we`re running out of time. But like for instance, Walt Disney himself cast you in "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: What was he like? You know, the rumors are that he was an anti-Semite. Did you ever hear that?
VAN DYKE: I have heard that. I never saw any of it at all. He was an old shoe. He was just the way he appeared. Everybody called him Uncle Walt, and he had that avuncular attitude. Easy-going and never lost his inner child. He was a big kid.
BEHAR: Well, he had to be for that stuff, yes.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: So you don`t think that`s true about him?
VAN DYKE: I don`t think so. No.
BEHAR: That he was anti-Semitic.
VAN DYKE: I really don`t think so.
BEHAR: I wonder how these things get started. And then I understand that someone in the mob wanted to manage you at one point. That was interesting.
VAN DYKE: Way, way back in the early `50s, we were looking at Martha Ray`s 5:00 Club (ph) in Miami, and this guy came to me and wanted me to leave my partner. I had a partner at that time, said he`d pay all my expenses, buy my clothes, write the material, and arrange for the clubs.
BEHAR: And pay you $15,000 a week.
VAN DYKE: Those days -- $15,000 a week, I--
BEHAR: You were making 300.
VAN DYKE: Yeah.
BEHAR: We figured it out.
VAN DYKE: How did you find out?
BEHAR: We did the math.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: And my agent said, are you crazy? They`ll own you. You`ll never get away from them. I didn`t understand it in those days. So I didn`t sign up.
BEHAR: Well, good, you didn`t. OK. One more story before we go. You danced for Fred Astaire. Did he think you were a good dancer? The great Fred Astaire?
VAN DYKE: I heard him say on the air, and very few people heard this. He was on a morning talk show. And he was asked, what do you think about the new crop of young dancers? He said, I like the way Dick Van Dyke moves. I almost drove off the freeway. I was going to work. I got to work, said, did you hear what Fred Astaire -- to this day I haven`t found anybody who heard him say it.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: But I heard him.
BEHAR: You heard him say it. That`s all that counts.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: And also, that, you know, you were very big -- you were at a Martin Luther King rally one time. Of course, this was many years before the man was assassinated.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: And it must have been -- you were nervous then, weren`t you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was -- he was at the coliseum out on a football field, and I was sitting next to him. And just before we went out, they said -- we were -- there had already been a threat on Dr. King`s life.
BEHAR: Even then? That was--
VAN DYKE: Yes. And this was the early `60s. And I`m embarrassed to say I sat like this next to King, hoping the guy was a good shot.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I can`t tell you what a pleasure it`s been to spend this time.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Joy, I loved it.
BEHAR (singing): I`m so glad to spend this time with you -- that was what`s her name, that`s Carol Burnett. Right? I`m getting everything mixed up now.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But anyway, the book is called "My Lucky Life in and out of Show Business." Lovely to have you. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Terrific read.
END
