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Joy Behar Page
Schwarzenegger, Shriver Split; Interview With Nikki Sixx
Aired May 10, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver are splitting up amid rumors of unhappiness and erratic behavior on the part of the Governator. So was California`s power couple just waiting to leave politics before calling it quits?
Then Motley Crue`s hard rocking Nikki Sixx talks about surviving six overdoses.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI SIXX, BAND MEMBER, MOTLEY CRUE: I was on heroin, coke, pills, alcohol --
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: All at once?
SIXX: Yes, all at once.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And tells Joy about the time he was declared dead.
Plus Bristol Palin and her son are moving in with two guys as part of a new reality show.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: After 25 years, Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver are going their separate ways. Apparently she wants to spend more time on her career and he wants to spend more time on everyone else. What?
Here now to discuss the split and where Arnold and Maria go from here are Deborah Norville, host if "Inside Edition"; Howard Bragman, celebrity publicist and founder of 15 Minutes; and Debbie Magids, psychologist and relationship expert.
So, did anybody see this coming, because I did? What about you?
DEBORAH NORVILLE, "INSIDE EDITION": I don`t know. I mean I think the fairy tale in all of us wants to think that they would have managed fine. But if it was going to happen, this was the time. The governorship is over for him. He`s doing new stuff, trying to get back in the movie business. And, you know, Maria`s kids are old enough that they`re grown and they`re going to be fine.
BEHAR: The kid is 14 --
NORVILLE: The youngest.
BEHAR: Listen, kids never want you to get a divorce, right.
DEBBIE MAGIDS, PSYCHOLOGIST: Right. You can be 40 years old and you want your parents together because their happiness is what makes you happy.
HOWARD BRAGMAN, PUBLICIST: Let me ask you a question. Let me take over your show for a second. Isn`t there a thing like 25 years of marriage, the kids get grown, this happens, right? This is a pretty traditional kind of split?
MAGIDS: Sure. Yes, it happens all the time. I mean monogamy is one of the hardest things, so sure. That happens.
BEHAR: Monogamy is monotonous, let`s tell the truth.
MAGIDS: Yes.
BEHAR: It`s totally monotonous, especially after 25 years.
BRAGMAN: I don`t think monogamy had anything to do with this marriage.
BEHAR: What do you think it had to do with?
BRAGMAN: I think from ten years ago when Arnold was last a movie star and he was caught with his hand in multiple cookie jars at the time.
BEHAR: You mean people`s bodies.
NORVILLE: The groping thing -- the groping thing that he talked about.
(CROSSTALK)
BRAGMAN: Ten years ago you could cover things up. We live in an extraordinarily transparent world today. You cannot cover it. He starts doing a movie, he starts getting friendly, somebody`s tweeting, somebody takes a picture. I don`t think he wanted to deal with it. I don`t think she wanted to deal with it. And I think it`s a different world.
BEHAR: Are you saying he`s been cheating on her? Is that what you`re trying to say in this conversation?
BRAGMAN: I would never -- I do not know that and I wouldn`t -- I just hear a lot of stories.
BEHAR: But you`re implying -- you`re implying stuff that there might be something going on with -- that he was -- go ahead.
MAGIDS: No, he is implying. That does sound like that`s what you`re saying.
BRAGMAN: I`m just saying it`s a different world and you know you`re away on a set. It`s the 30 miles from home rule.
MAGIDS: Yes, you know, I just want to address, I do think it was a surprise to most of us in the world because of the way Maria presents and she`s a very well-respected woman and they present as this family unit. So most of the people that I was talking to today are very surprised and shocked and upset by it, actually.
NORVILLE: And I think saddened.
BEHAR: Why are they upset? Why should you upset about someone else`s divorce?
MAGIDS: Well, because you emulate and you want this couple to make it, you want your own couple to make it. I mean we look to them as role models. We do. I mean that`s human nature.
NORVILLE: I think people are saddened by this. I think they have seen these two working very much as a team. And you brought up the groping thing when he was running for governor. If Maria had not gone out in front of the public and said, these guys happened 30 years ago, I`ve known this man, he`s been a part of my life. Who do you want to believe, them that you don`t know or me who you do know? Maria got him elected and I think there`s a lot of people who wanted to --
BRAGMAN: She didn`t say that. She didn`t say that. He apologized.
NORVILLE: He apologized. But she said, "Who do you want to believe?"
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: No, she said it. I`ve got the tape if you want to see it. "Do you want to believe them or do you want to believe me." And people chose to believe Maria because there`s a great deal of respect for her.
BEHAR: Well, she has credibility. Maria has credibility. And she doesn`t need any aggravation from him. She`s a Kennedy. She can do what she wants now with her life.
NORVILLE: No. Maria is Maria. She`s the Kennedy family --
BEHAR: He`s a failed governor and a body builder.
BRAGMAN: And what`s ironic about this whole thing -- what`s ironic. He left with one --
BEHAR: I like him. He`s very funny. I like him.
BRAGMAN: He left with one of the lowest ratings of any governor in modern history and she is considered the best first lady in modern California history. She did great things for women. She could run for governor now and do very well.
NORVILLE: She absolutely could. Whatever Maria does next I think she will be spectacularly successful at. I think that people will rally around her and I think it`s going to be a grand slam hit.
BEHAR: You know she left her job for him on the "Dateline", was it, I believe?
NORVILLE: On NBC.
BEHAR: Yes. She left her job to help him. Do you think she resents that a little bit, Doctor?
MAGIDS: I don`t think she resents it. I think she`s a smart woman, who -- she can go right back into a job. She`s not locked out of the job market. I think she made a very strategic decision in the service of her family. And I think, listen, problems started way before today when we found out they were separating. And I think she probably did it --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But the word is that she was thinking about it for two years, divorcing him.
BRAGMAN: She had the best job in the world, being first lady of California. You get to set your own agenda. She did amazing things for women.
MAGIDS: He gave her a platform also.
BRAGMAN: Exactly.
MAGIDS: I think she did a lot of great things.
BEHAR: Do you think it`s true what she said, that she can just go back into her job?
BRAGMAN: I don`t think she wants to. I don`t see any reason for her to go back again. And I think --
BEHAR: Why, it`s exciting being a TV commentator, isn`t it? Yes.
MAGIDS: You tell us.
BRAGMAN: We`re all having fun, I mean --
BEHAR: Why wouldn`t she want that job?
NORVILLE: Oh, I think she can do so many more bigger and more important things.
BEHAR: What`s bigger than what I do? Tell me. Nothing.
MAGIDS: The point is she has a lot of opportunities to do whatever she wants to do. She`s a well-respected powerful person.
BEHAR: I think he got more out of the relationship than she did. You`re saying being the first lady of California --
BRAGMAN: I spent time with them.
BEHAR: He got access.
BRAGMAN: They loved each other. There was a definite warmth, there was definite love, there was definite compassion.
BEHAR: Why is love (INAUDIBLE) then, if they loved each other. I mean what is that. You love each other and then you don`t love each other.
BRAGMAN: I don`t think love ends. I think passion ends.
MAGIDS: I also think it`s opportunity. What opportunities you have. What kind of couple you are. Couples that have two separate lives doing things out in the world meeting other people all the time, you lose some sort of attachment to each other.
BEHAR: Yes.
NORVILLE: I don`t think that`s a given because I`m afraid somebody`s going to be sitting and going -- like me who`s been married 23 1/2 years. And I work in television, my husband does not. He has a different career field. The idea that we travel parallel but not always intertwining paths is certainly not a recipe for a split.
MAGIDS: And you know what -- no. You`re 100 percent right and I`m glad you said that. It`s not everyone, but the couples that tend to lose their passion more easily are ones that don`t see each other as often.
BEHAR: That`s not true. I saw my husband every day.
BRAGMAN: Joy, let me add one thing. Stuff`s going to come out now. Ok?
BEHAR: Like what. Come on, Howard.
BRAGMAN: You know, and we can only imagine and none of us know. But this has opened the flood gates and stories are going to start coming out there.
BEHAR: True stories or fake stories?
NORVILLE: You mean -- you talking about infidelity? Howard, are you talking about infidelity stories?
BRAGMAN: All sorts of interesting stories are going to come out.
BEHAR: What do you think he`s talking about.
NORVILLE: Can I just ask, what`s the percentage on that, what`s to be gained other than people`s prurient curiosity being satisfied?
BEHAR: She said we can identify with them. So now we`ll identify with the story.
NORVILLE: Are we going to identify more if we hear ugly things about their private lives? I don`t want to hear that.
MAGIDS: No, but then again --
BRAGMAN: It`s the nature of the world we live in. We live in this transparent world --
BEHAR: Tabloid world.
BRAGMAN: And nobody can -- many media outlets have no sense of morality.
BEHAR: Now, let`s talk about being a political wife for a second. Because there are plenty of people, Hillary Clinton for one who stood by her man; Larry Craig`s wife who stood by her whatever; David Vitter`s wife, another bargain -- these women -- and Barbara Bush, there were rumors about George Herbert Walker Bush had some number that they sent off to London, the Republicans are sneaky like that. They put them and send them on a plane somewhere.
BRAGMAN: Maybe Eisenhower, don`t forget.
BEHAR: Oh, yes.
NORVILLE: The secretary, yes.
BEHAR: Eisenhower was doing his secretary back then. Yes. She`s home combing the bangs, waiting for World War II to end.
BRAGMAN: They were teasing back then. It wasn`t combing, it was teasing.
BEHAR: All right. So, now you have -- then you have -- on the other hand, you have Elizabeth Edwards and you have Tipper Gore. We don`t know what went on there. What do you think went on there?
NORVILLE: You`re asking me for my opinion?
BEHAR: Anybody who knows this. We still don`t know about Tipper and Al Gore.
NORVILLE: And God bless them that they kept it private.
BEHAR: They were classy.
NORVILLE: Yes, I think that`s a wonderful thing.
MAGIDS: I would like to believe -- I would like to believe.
BRAGMAN: What`s going on?
MAGIDS: I would like to believe there was not infidelity. I like to believe that they decided to separate without infidelity involved.
NORVILLE: What do you think, Joy, will be the impact if Newt declares as he`s supposed to tomorrow to run for president, his present wife --
BEHAR: Standing by her man already and staring --
NORVILLE: But he was having an affair with her prior to marrying her while he was married to the previous wife.
BRAGMAN: While he was going after Clinton for having an affair, by the way.
NORVILLE: While they were voting to impeach President Clinton.
BEHAR: He`s the biggest hypocrite. He`s up there with the Palins. But I mean when he says it`s because the economy needs to be corrected that people will forget his infidelity. If he`s forgetting that he gave his wife notice that they were going to get divorced while she had cancer in the hospital. It is not just he was cheating. He was a bad boy. Anyway. Newt.
Thank you very much, you guys. We`ll be back in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a father and his young son are reunited after a heart-wrenching five-year international abduction battle.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Seven years ago, David Goldman was living a happy life married to his wife Bruna and raising his 4-year-old son, Shawn. But then his wife took Shawn on a vacation to her native Brazil and she never came back.
David writes about the ordeal in his new book "A Father`s Love: One Man`s Unrelenting Battle to Bring his Abducted Son Home". Please welcome to the show, David Goldman.
David, ok. Take me back to the day that your wife left with your son.
DAVID GOLDMAN, AUTHOR, "A FATHER`S LOVE": It was June 16th, 2004. And I drove my then-wife and my son and my in-laws to Newark Liberty Airport for what was supposed to be a vacation. They arrived. I get the phone call, everything`s ok. About two days later, Father`s Day. I get a phone call, "I`m not coming back. Our love affair is over."
BEHAR: Our love affair is over.
GOLDMAN: "Our love affair is over. You`re a great guy, a wonderful father, the best father I could ever imagine for my son, to my son, but I`m staying in Brazil and he`s staying with me." And then there was a list of demands drawn up from her attorney that she wanted me to adhere to if I ever wanted to see my -- our son again.
BEHAR: Ok. Did you detect that the marriage was unhappy in any way?
GOLDMAN: She was a great actor if it was. I don`t believe it was unhappy.
BEHAR: So what do you think motivated it?
GOLDMAN: It could be an affair from this other guy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The one she`s now married to.
GOLDMAN: Was married to. She passed away in Brazil.
BEHAR: She did. Yes.
GOLDMAN: But at the time or could have been her mom that was obsessed with having her back.
BEHAR: Maybe she just wanted to go back to Brazil.
GOLDMAN: It could have been.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you didn`t detect --
GOLDMAN: Never shared it with me whatsoever.
BEHAR: And you detected no discord in the -- in the relationship at all. No arguments, no lack of -- the sex life was the same.
GOLDMAN: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: I mean it`s a personal question, but that usually is what breaks up marriages. So that was ok.
GOLDMAN: No. Yes.
BEHAR: All right.
Now she takes the kid to Brazil. Isn`t there a law about abducting a child and taking the child to another country?
GOLDMAN: Absolutely. There`s -- it`s a thing called The Hague Abduction Convention and it was instilled in 1980 --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDMAN: -- and Brazil is a signatory of it. And what it is to prevent these international abductions. Our forefathers recognize as the world became smaller and -- and becoming smaller.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
GOLDMAN: -- with global traveling, that marriages don`t always work out. And this treaty that is signed by Brazil and many, many other countries, has that the child should be returned back to the state of home residence, habitual residence, in our case, America, within six weeks. Not five and a half years.
BEHAR: Ok, so then why didn`t they send the kid back?
GOLDMAN: Brazil wasn`t holding up to their reciprocal treaty obligations while America was sending children to Brazil my son had still been held illegally in Brazil.
BEHAR: No I mean, so the government was backing up this illegal act?
GOLDMAN: The government of Brazil -- even now my son is the only American child to ever be returned back to America from Brazil under The Hague Convention Treaty. There are still several American children and countless from other countries trapped in Brazil illegally.
BEHAR: Really?
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I understand that there`s a lot of kids in Japan.
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: And we`ve seen that movie "Not Without My Daughter," you know that movie.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDMAN: Sally Field.
BEHAR: Where the guy takes -- took, takes the boy -- the girl to Iran and it`s --
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDMAN: And she has to hire the whole --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: So -- so what you -- what you went through we`ve seen but it sounds outrageous.
GOLDMAN: It is. In this day and age --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDMAN: -- with these countries that are willingly signing these treaties to stop this, to return the children who are abducted. And now there`s over nearly 3,000 American children in foreign countries held illegally and then, it goes from Brazil to England, England to Brazil, it`s --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDMAN: -- it`s all over. And that`s why this treaty is in place, to stop this.
BEHAR: Yes, I see. So -- so time goes by.
GOLDMAN: Time goes by.
BEHAR: You keep trying to get this boy back. It`s costing you money, I would assume in lawyer fee.
GOLDMAN: Still is, because they`re still fighting.
BEHAR: It`s still costing you money.
GOLDMAN: Yes, it is.
BEHAR: How much has it cost you so far?
GOLDMAN: Hundreds of hundreds of thousands of dollars.
BEHAR: Oh, my God.
GOLDMAN: There was over $500,000 when we returned, and it`s -- it`s hundreds more since then.
BEHAR: It`s really unbelievable. I mean, it`s -- do you think -- just for as a sidebar, money wise, do you think if this got resolved that you could sue them for the money, this family and the government of Brazil?
GOLDMAN: Well, under The Hague Convention --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
GOLDMAN: -- when a child is returned, the abductor is obligated to recoup the left-behind-parent all costs -- costs associated with repatriation. I doubt that will ever happen. Brazil barely sent him home. How are they going to even order a judgment for them to pay?
BEHAR: Right. Also the abductor is your wife and she`s passed away.
GOLDMAN: Well, it was -- it was basically a co-abduction with her parents. And then once she passed away her parents and this new guy that she married somehow in Brazil kept the abducting -- abduction going as noted in the courts.
And this guy`s family specializes in family law in International Child Abduction Law. And they lecture on how you can turn an abducted child into an attack missile against the left-behind-parent.
BEHAR: It`s so galling. It must make you so crazy. I can see it.
(CROSSTALK)
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: That you must be so stressed out over this.
GOLDMAN: Well, it -- it -- we`re in such a better place now because he`s home.
BEHAR: Now. Yes, yes.
GOLDMAN: But during that time, yes, the outrageousness, the hypocrisies, the -- the illegalities were -- were dumb-founding. And -- and that`s why we had to share this story because I wasn`t -- I mean, I`m the only one whose abducting parent died essentially --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes. How did she die?
GOLDMAN: Having birth with this new Brazilian man`s baby; giving birth to his baby.
BEHAR: She died in childbirth. I mean, these are upper middle class people.
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: In Brazil.
GOLDMAN: They chose their own doctors. No, they`re upper class in Brazil.
BEHAR: Upper class -- they`re loaded.
GOLDMAN: In Brazil. In Brazil there`s essentially rich or poor, and it`s these type of people that have been keeping the rest of the country repressed. And -- and fortunately, the -- the groundswell of support came on -- to our behest because these people are sick of these type of -- of structured government and these -- these people just keeping them repressed. It`s very sad.
BEHAR: Well, the good news is they`ve got -- you`ve got Shawn back and he came back on Christmas Eve?
GOLDMAN: Yes. Christmas Eve.
BEHAR: 2009.
GOLDMAN: Yes. A miracle.
BEHAR: It`s a miracle.
GOLDMAN: All the days of the year and it was Christmas Eve.
BEHAR: When we come back I want to find out about Shawn and how he`s doing. Ok stay right there. We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", Arnold Schwarzenegger and Maria Shriver`s surprising split. What went wrong? At 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with David Goldman and we`re talking about his fight to get his abducted son back from Brazil. So now Shawn is in New Jersey with you.
GOLDMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: And he`s doing well, I presume?
GOLDMAN: Yes, he`s doing really well.
BEHAR: That`s a hard transition for a kid that age.
GOLDMAN: Not as -- actually, it went better than we would have all hoped for. He came back to an environment that was loving, warm, understanding, to his grandparents, to his cousins, and what they tried to do to him in Brazil is essentially erase his real memories and replace them with false memories. That was the hard thing.
He came back to what he thought was the enemy, living in a shack, living in America, New Jersey, with a gringo enemy guy who abandoned him.
BEHAR: That`s what they told him.
GOLDMAN: Yes. And he saw none of it was true. And that was a struggle, wow. My dad, he loves me, he`ll do anything for me. And here`s my grandma and grandma again and my cousins. And we have the snow and the igloos. Why did they tell me these things? Why did they do this to me? Why did they tell me my dad didn`t want me?
And that was his struggle. And that`s what still is painful to me.
BEHAR: It`s painful to hear it. That poor little boy.
GOLDMAN: Yes, but he`s doing so good. He`s playing baseball now, he`s on the basketball team, he`s got so many friends and he`s so loved and he`s flourishing. And --
BEHAR: The first day he came back -- first of all, you kept in touch with him in Brazil?
GOLDMAN: They severed all contact. After I didn`t agree to her demands, they said that`s it.
BEHAR: So her -- those five years he really didn`t have contact with you, so that day that he came back to you, what -- he must have thought -- you know, like they were describing. So how did you overcome that?
GOLDMAN: Well, after going down there about 16 times to meet him and bring him home, I was able to see him maybe on the 12th or 13th for a limited period of time. After we went all the way to the Superior Court in the capital of Brazil and the connection was there. He saw it.
I wouldn`t bite on any of the bait they threw out at us to get a conflict, try to get things uneasy. And when he came home we had an immediate reunion in Universal Studios.
BEHAR: So he knew you a little bit. He had seen your face; he knew that you weren`t this monster.
GOLDMAN: Right. I didn`t come out of the blue and just whisk him away. In fact, they dragged him, wrapped him up in a Brazilian colored flag T-shirt and dragged him through the streets in Rio to make their mark, to show -- again, it`s not about him, it`s about them.
BEHAR: Nasty people. And they`re still at it trying to get him still, right.
GOLDMAN: Trying to get him.
BEHAR: They haven`t got the legs to stand on. First of all, he`s in this country, and secondly he`s with his biological father.
GOLDMAN: His only living parent.
BEHAR: There`s no parent in Brazil. There`s just a grandparents and some stepfather.
GOLDMAN: Who is not even -- who was called the second abductor by the courts of Brazil. But they can still appeal and that appeal still can get overturned and I still have to always look over my shoulder --
BEHAR: And more money -- it`s costing you even more money.
GOLDMAN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Before we go -- I only have 30 seconds. Why do they want him back? The stepfather doesn`t really have an attachment to the kid.
GOLDMAN: Because they never lose.
BEHAR: They never lose.
GOLDMAN: And anyone who beats them, they want to destroy because they can`t accept it. They are behaving terribly, very badly. But they can`t accept it. The sense of entitlement that they have and --
BEHAR: Well, too bad because they lost. They lost and you won. Congratulations.
GOLDMAN: Shawn won.
BEHAR: And Shawn did too.
GOLDMAN: Thank you Joy. Thank you so much. It was great to meet you.
BEHAR: Thanks for doing this. His book is called "A Father`s Love". We`ll be back in a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, a newspaper apologizes after removing Hillary Clinton from the infamous White House Situation Room photo.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: OK, take a look at the picture on the left, OK? Now look at the one on the right. Everybody`s staring at these pictures? OK. Do you notice anything missing? If you look really closely, you`ll see that Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and the other female team member have been photoshopped out by a Hasidic newspaper. How`s that for chutzpah?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: With me to talk about this and other stories in the news are Deborah Norville, host of "Inside Edition." Comedian Sherrod Small and Wendi McLendon-Covey, actress currently starring in the film "Bridesmaids."
Welcome, guys. So what is your basic response to something like that? How dare they? Or they have every right? What do you think?
DEBORAH NORVILLE, HOST, INSIDE EDITION: It`s just unimaginable that the secretary of state cannot be shown in a newspaper because I gather the Hasidim believe that it would be erotic. Now, that may be the best news that Hillary`s gotten in a long time.
(LAUGHTER)
NORVILLE: But I`m sorry, you know? This is just insane. And I -- Mrs. Clinton, I mean no disrespect, Madam Secretary, but this is just ridiculous.
BEHAR: Those pantsuits get the Hasids so hot.
NORVILLE: What if she would have won president?
(LAUGHTER)
SHERROD SMALL, COMEDIAN: First of all, I wish I could do the same thing with some photos on my Facebook so my girlfriend won`t see who I`m hanging out with. Just take all the women out.
BEHAR: Yes, you can do that.
SMALL: Can I?
BEHAR: But I mean, just for the record, they have apologized, the Hasidic community -- the paper, rather, they apologized. But not because they offended women, because they broke a White House rule in manipulating the photo. I mean, they said, this is their quote, "We should not have published the altered picture and we have conveyed our regrets and apologies to the White House and to the State Department. "
So there`s no apology to women or to Mrs. Clinton or to that woman behind there.
NORVILLE: Who is a very high-ranking official. She is the head of counterterrorism, just FYI. She`s not a secretary.
SMALL: She should have had a better seat in the room, then, shouldn`t she?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know, but the boys took up all the room.
SMALL: It looks like they not only took the women out the picture, they made it like a Civil War picture. What year is that picture they made?
BEHAR: I know, that`s true. It`s sepia toned.
SMALL: You see Abe Lincoln in the back.
NORVILLE: Maybe they don`t believe in color photos, either.
BEHAR: Do you think they would have done that to Golda Meir? I mean, a woman did win a war in six days for the Israelis. You think they would have some respect for that.
SMALL: They don`t even acknowledge who that is.
BEHAR: Golda Meir?
SMALL: No.
NORVILLE: Are you serious?
SMALL: No, I said the Hasidics (ph) probably won`t.
NORVILLE: But you don`t know that for a fact?
SMALL: No, I`m just saying it. No, I tell jokes.
(LAUGHTER)
SMALL: Where am I?
BEHAR: I don`t know if you realize it, but Golda Meir was really hot. If you think Hillary Clinton got them hot--
SMALL: I like a fighting woman.
BEHAR: Oh, my God, she looked exactly like Lyndon Johnson. OK. But you know, it seems to me that religion, a lot of times, extreme religion does put women in the back of the bus, you know? Or take them out of the bus altogether. Why do women -- I don`t even understand why a woman would be involved in anything like that, in a group like that?
SMALL: In a group like what?
BEHAR: In an extreme religious group.
SMALL: Because they don`t have a choice. Somebody else has made the choices for them.
(CROSSTALK)
SMALL: They don`t have a right to vote or--
NORVILLE: It`s what you`ve known all your life.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Wendi?
WENDI MCLENDON-COVEY, ACTRESMALL: Yes, I do, and I don`t think it`s right to rewrite history, you know? If you`re going to have --
NORVILLE: It`s a historical photo.
MCLENDON-COVEY: Yes, it`s a -- my gosh.
SMALL: It`s only a matter of time before you can go to 42nd Street and you and your drunk buddies can get in there and take a picture in that same photo.
MCLENDON-COVEY: You make a good point.
BEHAR: OK. Next up, interesting details continue to emerge about Osama bin Laden`s private life, like the fact that herbal Viagra and Vaseline were found in his room. Here is a question: Was he in Abbottabad or in a summer share on a Thai (ph) island?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. Now, there were three wives living with him in the compound, Wendy, and he fathered between 20 and 26 kids over the years.
SMALL: Wow.
BEHAR: OK, you don`t think he did that by himself, do you? He needed the little help.
MCLENDON-COVEY: He needed a little help. I -- judging from the pictures, he left the Grecian formula well enough alone, but I just feel like those lucky, lucky ladies.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Oh, I know.
MCLENDON-COVEY: You know? You know there`s some woman somewhere in America looking at that picture going, that was a good-looking man. I would break off my pen pal relationship with Lyle and Eric Menendez to turn that one around.
BEHAR: You know, a lot of my gay friends, guys say that women will go for anything, and here you have exhibit A.
NORVILLE: What we don`t know is what they`re telling these guys in Pakistan. They may be on their knees thanking the Americans, thank you, thank you, thank you, you got us away from this guy.
BEHAR: I think so.
NORVILLE: But it`s interesting, I think releasing this is actually brilliant. I`m very upset that others within the American intelligence community -- we didn`t need to know about the phone number sewn into bin Laden`s garments, we didn`t need to know how many hard drives and how many USB flash drives they got. We can find that out later. But I think it`s great that they`ve shown us looking like a little hunched gnome watching TV with a remote, looking at old videos of himself of all things. I think it`s great to show him as a diminished, diminutive, nonpowerful individual huddled in this --
BEHAR: Like the Wizard of Oz.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: But at least the Wizard of Oz had good digs. I mean, bin Laden was in a dump.
SMALL: They said it was a mansion. I was like, if that`s a mansion, I live in a mansion. Because I have a mattress on the floor with children`s bedding. I have that same house.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But it`s a million-dollar compound, they said. The Pakistani real estate is ridiculous.
SMALL: Somebody owes somebody $999,000.
(LAUGHTER)
SMALL: Because that was not a million-dollar compound.
BEHAR: And it was very messy. Do you think, Wendi, he was a hoarder or something? He`s got (inaudible) around.
MCLENDON-COVEY: I don`t know, but I just know that he was a filthy Coke-drinking infidel like the rest of us.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We know that now. But I mean, he also was like Osama bin Hefner. The guy was getting a little action everywhere he went. No stunner, and yet they were coming to him. It`s unbelievable.
NORVILLE: Well, I`ll tell you, the one headline of all of this is sales of this herbal Viagra have got to be going off the charts.
BEHAR: It`s like salvia.
NORVILLE: Who ever heard of this? Nobody knew you could smoke the herbs in your mother`s garden and get stoned off of it, so there`s the silver lining in every cloud.
BEHAR: But so you think this whole thing has diminished his image around the world? That they are not going to--
SMALL: It has to have.
MCLENDON-COVEY: I absolutely do.
NORVILLE: It has to have.
SMALL: Just for the record, what`s the name of that stuff he used?
BEHAR: Herbal Viagra.
SMALL: Just for the record.
BEHAR: OK. Now, Bristol Palin has signed on to star in a new reality series about her life on A&E. A&E`s Bio Channel. The show has no title yet. Might I suggest, "Are You More Abstinent Than a Fifth Grader?" Did I say picst (sic) or fifth?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, the teeth are not in tonight. So besides unwed mothers, who`s going to watch this exactly?
NORVILLE: It`s her dancing partner, isn`t it? Isn`t it the boy that she danced with on "Dancing With the Stars?" It`s not just her, it`s her friend Cory (ph).
SMALL: Oh, really?
NORVILLE: Yes, there`s like a little team approach on it.
MCLENDON-COVEY: Is it that interesting? Were they so magnetic together that we just can`t get enough of those crazy kids?
BEHAR: She was one of the worst dancers also.
SMALL: Is this her way of trying to encourage girls, teenage girls not to get pregnant, not to like do a show with a whole bunch of stars, and make half a million dollars? And then get your own show on Bio? If I was a teenage girl, I couldn`t wait to get pregnant right now, to try to have a show on TV.
BEHAR: Well, that seems to be the message, you know? And you know, it`s interesting, the family that claims to hate Hollywood and reality TV, they`re always making money off of television and Hollywood, these people.
NORVILLE: Isn`t this the lamestream media that this show is going to be on? I mean, excuse me, but aren`t we kind of a little two-faced on all this?
BEHAR: Do you want to hear something interesting that someone told me about today? Remember that Candy`s (ph) Foundation that she started for abstinence and all that stuff?
MCLENDON-COVEY: Oh, the one that she drew that huge salary from?
BEHAR: $262,000 she got for that. And the actual organization only dispersed $35,000 in grants to teen pregnancy clinics.
NORVILLE: That is an outrage.
BEHAR: It is an outrage.
NORVILLE: That is a "60 Minutes" story right there, because that is wrong.
BEHAR: That is wrong.
NORVILLE: People donated, and they got --
BEHAR: Do it on your show.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: They got their 501c(3) tax deduction to pay for Bristol Palin`s plastic surgery?
BEHAR: Exactly. I mean, the fact that she did get her face done--
NORVILLE: She did have her face done.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: Botox, she had her nose stretched out.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: There you go. Look at those pictures. You tell me the girl on the right-hand side is the same as the one on the left.
BEHAR: Which is the old and which is the new?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Oh, they gave her a chin.
SMALL: They gave her a chin. She got a chin implant.
BEHAR: They gave her a chin.
NORVILLE: Her nose has been straightened.
BEHAR: It`s like Vinnie the Chin (inaudible) over there.
(LAUGHTER)
NORVILLE: How old is she, Joy? What is she, 20?
BEHAR: She`s young. Yes.
NORVILLE: 20, 21 maybe?
BEHAR: It`s just outrageous in my opinion. I mean, here`s a girl, gets knocked up by this Levi Johnston. They don`t get married, right? They never got married. And then she`s the abstinence poster child going around telling people to practice abstinence when she did not?
SMALL: And make a million dollars. She`s making millions of dollars not practicing abstinence.
MCLENDON-COVEY: Right. Why would anyone practice abstinence when, you know, these pregnant girls can go on red carpets and get goody bags? I mean, what they`re doing on--
BEHAR: How much practice does it need, anyway, to be abstinent?
(CROSSTALK)
MCLENDON-COVEY: I don`t know.
BEHAR: It doesn`t take that much practice.
SMALL: If you`re a teenage girl and you don`t have a baby--
BEHAR: Just lay there and shut up.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: What?
SMALL: If you`re a teenage girl--
(LAUGHTER)
SMALL: If you`re a teenage girl and you don`t have a baby right now, what are you waiting for? I mean, get your life together. Give birth.
BEHAR: He does that with tremendous irony.
SMALL: That`s right. Yes.
BEHAR: All right, OK. We don`t have -- oh, we have a minute for these baby names, I think. Let`s do Suri. Little Suri--
NORVILLE: Oh, the fashion plate? Suri Cruise.
BEHAR: She has just won the title of best dressed by "Glamour UK."
SMALL: Finally.
BEHAR: She beat out Sarah Jessica Parker and all these other fashionistas. How do you like that?
(CROSSTALK)
SMALL: You know why? Because if you make her best dressed kid, you`re going to make her a worst dressed kid, and now their self-esteem out the window.
(CROSSTALK)
NORVILLE: Did you say it was "Glamour" magazine?
BEHAR: "UK Glamour." Yes.
NORVILLE: OK. Does this mean that British women are supposed to look to a 5-year-old for their fashion inspiration? I don`t understand that.
SMALL: Some do.
BEHAR: Look at the royal family and that last wedding. They looked ridiculous.
NORVILLE: Well, those two--
BEHAR: Beatrice.
NORVILLE: Those ones looked ridiculous.
BEHAR: Poor Beatrice. Wearing a coat rack on her head.
(CROSSTALK)
SMALL: My daughter was like, I want a hat like that. That`s why that`s a fashion no.
BEHAR: That`s a no-no.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, thank you guys very much. You can catch Wendi in "Bridesmaids" in theaters Friday. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: As a founding member of Motley Crue, my next guest is widely considered to be one of the world`s most foremost experts on the subject of sex, drugs and rock `n` roll. His new book is called "This Is Gonna Hurt." Please welcome to my show, Nikki Sixx.
NIKKI SIXX, MOTLEY CRUE: How are you doing.
BEHAR: Hey, Nick. You know, Nikki--
SIXX: No, I like Nick.
BEHAR: You like Nick?
SIXX: Well, my East Coast friends call me Nick.
BEHAR: But your real name is Frank.
SIXX: I was born, yes.
BEHAR: You were born Frank.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: But you changed it into Nikki.
SIXX: I changed it, yes. My father`s name was Frank, and when I was kind of a little angry teenager -- and he had left when I was three, and it kind of came to this place as a teenager, I`m like, I`m going to forge my own identity.
BEHAR: I see.
SIXX: And then -- ironically later I named my youngest daughter, is named Frankie. So it`s kind of like through forgiveness, I got to that place where--
BEHAR: So you came around.
SIXX: It came back around. Yes.
BEHAR: Oh, good for you.
SIXX: Yeah.
BEHAR: Now, I was reading all about you, so I found out that you have had six drug overdoses. Is that why you call yourself Nikki Sixx?
SIXX: No, but that`s a good story, though. What a great story. Can I use that one?
BEHAR: Yes, use that.
SIXX: OK, good.
BEHAR: But what is Sixx from? What`s Nikki Sixx from?
SIXX: Well, actually, honestly, there was a girl I was dating, and she had a boyfriend named Nikki Sixx, who was in a -- a previous boyfriend -- and he was in a top 40 band. And I really -- I was going as Nikki London, and I was in a band called London. And I decided I wanted to change it because I didn`t want to be Nikki London of London, and I was going to change it to Nine and I stole her ex-boyfriend`s name.
BEHAR: You just stole it. All right, that`s legit.
SIXX: I`m honest. Right?
BEHAR: No, I think that`s good. Well, you`ve done everything else, why not thievery.
SIXX: Yeah. That`s not bad, is it?
BEHAR: No. But you know, and then one time in these overdoses you had, you were declared dead.
SIXX: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: How did it feel to be dead?
SIXX: God, that`s a great song title. Isn`t it? I`m getting a lot of stuff from you. Yeah, we should, like, jam. I didn`t mean it like that.
BEHAR: But how did it feel to be dead?
SIXX: You know, it`s--
BEHAR: Did you see the light? People say they see a light.
SIXX: I can tell you things I saw.
BEHAR: What did you see?
SIXX: That I shouldn`t have been able to have seen. Like I saw the hotel hallway. I saw the ambulance, I saw the limo that was there, but, you know, I couldn`t have really seen that because there was a sheet over me. And I really kept that to myself for a lot of years until I did the "Behind the Music" thing, and I kind of let it slip because other people kind of look at you and think you`re a little bit crazy.
BEHAR: No, a lot of people believe that there is something that happens when you are declared dead, but my feeling is you`re not really dead.
SIXX: I don`t think -- I mean--
BEHAR: You`re not really dead, is what it is. Your mind is still operating. That`s why you probably envisioned all these things in your head.
SIXX: And again, I`ve said, I don`t know. I may not have never seen that, I may have just thought that, and it kind of came out through all that.
BEHAR: But I would assume that this was a wake-up call for you, right? After you --
SIXX: Absolutely.
BEHAR: All the drug overdoses and then you -- you`re dead.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: Was that the end of your drug use?
SIXX: That was the beginning of the end. It takes a while. Addiction is a really hard thing to kick.
BEHAR: What were you on? Heroin?
SIXX: I was on heroin, coke, pills, alcohol.
BEHAR: All at once?
SIXX: Yes, all at once. You know, why just do a little?
BEHAR: You just wanted to obliterate reality.
SIXX: Let`s just go. Yeah, and there was a lot of stuff for me, being a very young child and coming from a broken home--
BEHAR: Tell me about it.
SIXX: And being a teenage runaway and all that stuff, and then you get success and that`s a hard thing to deal with. And through recovery, I`ve been able to do so much good stuff. And it`s -- I`m a better songwriter, I`m a father of four. I`m able to make decisions even in the face of adversity. And as an artist, I feel pretty centered. I have to deal with all the same stuff we all have to deal with, but I don`t have anything to hide behind, and I like that.
BEHAR: Well, there are a lot of guys and women, I guess, who go through a lot of trauma as children, but they`re not talented like you are, and so they`re in obscurity. But you`ve gone all around the block and here you are to tell it, because you`re famous.
SIXX: I mean, I think we have a bit of a responsibility. You know, once you`ve been through a lot of stuff to show it to the world, that you can get through that kind of stuff. And that`s like when I was doing my new book, and a lot of people I was photographing, they`ve been through way worse stuff than anybody in this room or a lot of people listening have. And they`ve been able to turn their lives around. And that`s what inspired me to shoot them and kind of tell their story and intermingle it with mine.
And I`m doing the book signings, it`s amazing how many teenagers are coming up and they have tears in their eyes, and young adults and they are like, you know, I feel so inspired. Because in the end, the concept behind the book is you can get through anything if you want it bad enough.
BEHAR: Sometimes. Sometimes it does you in. You know, they say--
SIXX: It can be--
BEHAR: -- if it doesn`t kill you, it makes you stronger, but sometimes it kills you.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: But so the childhood sounds pretty bad.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: You were abandoned by your father when you were 3.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: That happens to a lot of people too.
SIXX: I mean, listen. I think -- I honestly think that my story is not 100 percent that unique. I think that I`m just the whole rock star part kind of throws an interesting twist on it. And then for me it`s really more about how you handle it.
BEHAR: But tell me what happened. Why did he leave, your father? Do you know?
SIXX: Don`t know.
BEHAR: Was he having -- probably has to do with your mother.
SIXX: I`m sure it does.
BEHAR: And his own life and maybe his own addictions.
SIXX: Exactly. The trail goes very -- it goes back and back and back and back. We follow this in life. You know, I feel that for any people that are in recovery, they have an opportunity to sort of break the chains, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
SIXX: And like my children are kind of able -- they -- when they hear about drugs, they see other people doing drugs, they kind of have a barometer of what -- where it`s going to go. By looking at their father, and I`m able to talk to them honestly about it.
BEHAR: Well, that`s good, because what you`re telling me is that you broke the cycle of abuse and neglect.
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: But a lot of people don`t. You know, the whole pathology is that you`re abused and then you abuse. But if you --
SIXX: And pathology is really interesting behind it, I find. The psychology behind addiction and the breakdown emotionally, what happens to people and how they treat people. And then it continues. So, you know, I`m an addict. And I`m using, how many people do I affect? Behavioral.
BEHAR: That`s right.
SIXX: Right?
BEHAR: And then, of course, you had the double whammy of your mother leaving you. How old were you when your mother left?
SIXX: My mom, you know, took off when I was about 6. What ended up happening is I ended up being with my grandparents. And it wasn`t like so much as an abandonment issue -- I feel it was abandonment, but I don`t think in her case, it was like I`m getting rid of my son. I think it was I`m young, I have a son, I`m kind of in the `60s, I`m living the life, and he`ll be with, you know, the grandparents, and I`ll get him when I get my act together. And that kind of never really happened.
BEHAR: It didn`t really work out that way. OK, you know, when we come back, I really am interested in hearing you got out of all of that.
SIXX: Awesome.
BEHAR: All right?
SIXX: Awesome.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back with more from Nikki Sixx in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the very tattooed Nikki Sixx. You were about to show me everything you have.
SIXX: Yes, but you said you didn`t have enough time.
BEHAR: It`s a family show, also.
SIXX: I know. I can take off at least my shirt.
BEHAR: Are they on your feet also?
SIXX: I have one on my foot. Yes.
BEHAR: You do?
SIXX: Yes.
BEHAR: What if you change your mind and decide you want to go tattoo free?
SIXX: I`m in trouble, I`m in trouble.
BEHAR: You`re in a lot of trouble.
SIXX: I`m in a lot of trouble, yes. A lot, a lot of trouble.
BEHAR: Now, if you were Jewish, which I don`t think you are. You were raised by Italians and--
SIXX: My manager says I`m Jewish. I don`t understand what that means.
BEHAR: But you can`t be buried if you have tattoos--
SIXX: No, you can`t.
BEHAR: -- in a Jewish cemetery.
SIXX: I know. So what if I convert now?
BEHAR: To Judaism?
SIXX: Yes. Do I get kind of like a grandfathered in thing?
BEHAR: That I don`t know. I have to--
SIXX: I think I can find a -- listen, I`m in Motley Crue, I can find a loophole.
BEHAR: It`s true. I know. OK, so I love this part about how your whole band went into rehab together. Was it like couples therapy?
SIXX: We have done -- we have done sort of a weird version of couples therapy, where the band sits down. And you know, bands are really like --
BEHAR: Brothers.
SIXX: Well, brothers, but we`re also -- it`s like, you know, we`re married. And it`s really complicated. Especially when you have nothing and then you get everything, and we start to age and you start to have things like families, and people go through divorces, and, you know, it`s - - the band can be extremely close and the most important thing, and the band can fight so much that it`s -- it`s miserable. And that`s just honest.
BEHAR: But when you were in rehab with them, was that when you came to this new self, where you put away your past and got, you know, dealt with your anger and your rage toward your family and everything?
SIXX: Well, no, that`s something I`ve done on my own. I`ve done a lot of my own work. But we`ve never actually all four been in rehab together, but we did this kind of like therapy stuff together. So people can confuse the two. But everyone`s been into rehab, except for my guitar player. He`s just too stubborn.
BEHAR: He`s too stubborn.
SIXX: He`s too stubborn.
BEHAR: Well, before we go, I only have a little time. I was just wondering -- I was reading that you thought that Steven Tyler on "American Idol" was doing a great job.
SIXX: I love him.
BEHAR: He got a little flak because he`s a rocker and then he gets on this kind of, you know, like hokey show. Right?
SIXX: Yes. But think about it, we have this mainstream event happening all the time, millions and millions of people, and they have an opportunity to see a guy who can really sing, really write his own songs, can dress as himself, designs sets. He`s one of the greatest front men ever--
BEHAR: He`s a talented guy.
SIXX: And if anybody is going to pick the next rock star, I want it to be Steven.
BEHAR: I`ll say. Well, I think that people didn`t agree with you. He`s doing very, very well there.
SIXX: Yes. I think he`s doing fantastic.
BEHAR: Nikki, it`s a pleasure to meet you.
SIXX: It`s fantastic being here too.
BEHAR: Very nice to have you here.
SIXX: And if you ever want to get a tattoo, I know a couple of people.
BEHAR: I don`t have any space on my body.
SIXX: You don`t have any space left?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, Nikki`s album is also called "This is Gonna Hurt," and it`s in stores now. Good night, everybody.
END
