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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Chelsea Handler; Interview with Dick Van Dyke
Aired May 13, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR INTERVIEWS, Joy talks to the hilarious Chelsea Handler about what it`s like being one of the only women in late night and never having to say you`re sorry in comedy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHELSEA HANDLER, TALK SHOW HOST: That`s the problem. If you apologize once, then you can never say anything again. So I don`t apologize.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Plus the legendary Dick Van Dyke is here. He`ll tell Joy why he became one of the first stars to open up about alcoholism.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Tonight, two funny people. First Chelsea Handler. She`s a comedian, late night host and the author of four books including her latest "Lies that Chelsea Handler Told Me." She better not tell me any lies in this interview. She may be a tough cookie, but I`ll smack her.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: You`re in late night and that is really good for the women because you probably are the only one doing it right now.
HANDLER: That I`m aware of. If there was another woman in late night right now then I would be sadly misinformed.
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: If somebody hadn`t told me about that. But hopefully there will be more to follow. I would think so. There`s a lot of female comedians out there that are getting a lot of attention lately. So hopefully there will be more to come.
BEHAR: You think so?
HANDLER: I would want --
BEHAR: On NBC, CBS and ABC.
HANDLER: I don`t know. I mean whatever. I mean it doesn`t matter really what network you`re on any more, look at you and look at me. It doesn`t matter.
BEHAR: That`s true. But these networks like mine and yours; they have to find us.
HANDLER: They find us, but then, you get to do whatever you kind of want to do. So it`s better to be there than to be -- if I was on NBC and I had to follow their rules, obviously I wouldn`t have a show. I would be in some sort of --
BEHAR: No, they wouldn`t let you --
HANDLER: -- a quarantined area --
BEHAR: They wouldn`t let you do it.
HANDLER: -- where they were spraying me daily.
BEHAR: But I mean it could be that late night will be gauded (ph) with women. I mean do you think Madeleine Albright will ever get a show, for example?
HANDLER: Well, she`s hilarious. So I don`t see why she wouldn`t.
BEHAR: I think she`s definitely in the running.
HANDLER: She`s hilarious and she`s sexy; and those are the two components.
BEHAR: Now, you hosted the VMAs, whatever those are.
HANDLER: Yes, well exactly. I had to find out what they are right after I agreed to host them. They`re the Video Music Awards -- VMAs -- Video Music Awards. Got it. Yes.
BEHAR: Ok. And you did that on MTV last year, and some of the critics said that you were vulgar. Can a woman be too (EXPLETIVE DELETED) vulgar, really?
HANDLER: It`s an interesting question. I think sometimes you can be. If you`re being vulgar for the sake of being vulgar, then yes, it`s too vulgar. But I`m not. I`ve always been this way. I`m not trying to shock people, that`s the way I speak.
And I was not nearly as vulgar as I can be on that night, that I recall. So, but -- if I paid attention to what critics say or said, have said about me I wouldn`t really be, you know, I wouldn`t have a career in the first place. So I don`t, I try not to let those kinds of things upset me.
BEHAR: I often tell people, they say to me, how come you just speak your mind all the time and you don`t care? I say because no one told me to shut up. Did you have that kind of a childhood too?
HANDLER: No, everyone told me to shut up.
BEHAR: They did?
HANDLER: Yes, everyone -- people are still telling me to shut up, but I just don`t -- the more someone tells me not to do something the more I want to do it. It`s very --
BEHAR: Where`d you get that? How`d you get that little rebellious streak?
HANDLER: I think I just saw my parents and I thought -- I looked at when I was a little girl, I looked at my parents and I thought, this is a joke. These people are jokes.
BEHAR: Yes. I understand.
HANDLER: You know what I mean? I just didn`t want to have a life like that. I was like, you guys aren`t even working. Like, do you have jobs? And I was the youngest of six kids and my brothers and sisters were kind of a lot older than me. And the one sister that was like in a close age range she was five years older than me. She was my closest sister in age, and she was a loser.
And so I was -- I just thought to myself, like, I looked at my parents and it was a perfect example of how I don`t want my life to become. So I just wanted to work, work, work, work, you know, and be successful, and make a lot of money and have decisions so I didn`t have to stay at a Holiday Inn.
BEHAR: Right.
HANDLER: You know.
BEHAR: Good move.
HANDLER: Like, they would take us on vacations, family vacations, and not make a reservation anywhere so we would end up like at a best Western or Holiday Inn. I`m like this is no way to go through life.
BEHAR: Did they have money?
HANDLER: They weren`t poor. We weren`t poor. We were just middle class, you know, somehow they managed to buy property on Martha`s Vineyard so that people think we have money but we didn`t really have money. I mean we weren`t starving but it wasn`t ideal.
BEHAR: Yes, you were more broke than poor.
HANDLER: Yes, broke, exactly.
BEHAR: Broke is the way to look at it.
HANDLER: Exactly. Yes.
BEHAR: But you have a Jewish father and a Mormon mother. How did they ever meet? Did they meet at an Osmond concert?
HANDLER: They -- my mom was German and she was over here from Germany visiting and then my father spotted her and I guess, you know, claimed her.
BEHAR: So a Jewish guy sees -- a Jewish guy sees a German Mormon and says I must have her?
HANDLER: Well, he like -- my mom was very -- she was very sexy. You know, she was easy, obviously, so he -- they had some love affair, you know, that of course went straight to the pot after they had four or five kids. Of course then she was looking at my father and was like, oh, my gosh, what a nightmare.
But, you know, it was just a great example of what not to do. You either become like your parents or you become the opposite of your parents. And I like to think that I`m the opposite of my parents.
BEHAR: So you won`t have any children?
HANDLER: No, no, I wouldn`t want to do that to a child or to a father of a child. No. I`m busy. You`re busy. You don`t have any children, right?
BEHAR: I have one, yes, but she`s 40 years old.
HANDLER: Oh, sorry, sorry.
BEHAR: I have a grandson now. I mean it`s --
HANDLER: Oh, you`re a grandmother.
BEHAR: Yes, I`m a grandma.
HANDLER: See, that`s what I want to avoid by having a child is becoming a grandmother.
BEHAR: Why? That`s the best part. You don`t have to take any responsibility.
HANDLER: Yes. That is true. Yes.
BEHAR: So now let`s talk about the stand-up performance you did in December which fascinated me.
HANDLER: What was it?
BEHAR: Well, you went off on Angelina Jolie calling her an F-ing home wrecker and the C word.
HANDLER: Gosh yes.
BEHAR: Did she ever contact you?
HANDLER: We`ve been in touch. We`re very close. Yes. She loved it. She called me and said thank you.
BEHAR: That made -- that got a lot of press that show.
HANDLER: Well, it shouldn`t have gotten a lot of press because I`ve been talking about Angelina Jolie since she made out with her brother. And I`ve been -- as has everybody else. So, it`s silly that all of a sudden people were talking about it. And it was stupid. I mean I still -- you know, I always say that about, I talk about everybody. So that was really dumb.
BEHAR: Of you?
HANDLER: No, no, it was dumb of the media.
BEHAR: The media. Well, they thought that you were channeling your girlfriend Jennifer Aniston.
HANDLER: No, I would never do that. I would never speak for anyone else, you know, any of my friends. I`m speaking from my -- from my heart and soul when I call somebody a home wrecker.
BEHAR: Yes. I hear you. I hear you.
But do you still think she`s a home wrecker?
HANDLER: I don`t think about her. Well, I had to stop doing that because I didn`t want anybody to think I was doing it for the wrong reasons. So I was like I better get some new material. I kind of had to retire it. Yes, I don`t really think about her that much.
BEHAR: Do you think she wrecked Jennifer`s marriage?
HANDLER: No. I don`t know anything about that. No, of course not.
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: I don`t know anything about that. That`s not where I`m coming from. I`m coming from, you know, when you just look at a woman and you`re a woman and you`re like, they have all these children and they`re buying ones from different countries and you`re like, something`s up with this lady, she doesn`t seem on the up and up.
BEHAR: And you may not want to have her at a party with your husband. I mean she looks like the kind of person all the men would focus on her and that would be the end of your relationship. She seems like that.
HANDLER: I mean if my husband were -- I mean -- that`s why I`m not getting married because I don`t want him to leave me more Angelina Jolie.
BEHAR: And of course, he will.
HANDLER: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok.
Now, let me ask you something about your show for a second before we go to a break. Do you ever get any notes from the network?
HANDLER: I delete those immediately when I get them on my Blackberry. Sometimes they send me standards and practices notes and we have to kind of abide by those rules. But I don`t really take anything -- I`ve gotten to a place now -- I mean we just did our 700th or something episode, so they kind of leave me alone. So it`s very -- it`s kind of a cake walk at this point. But I know what I can`t do. I don`t push it too far.
BEHAR: You`re on tape, they can bleep all that stuff.
HANDLER: They can bleep stuff, yes. I mean they would prefer I didn`t make fun of Asians as often as I do but --
BEHAR: Asians in particular?
HANDLER: Well, no. Asians, Jews, black people -- anybody, any sort of minority. I like to just make sure I focus on them a fair amount of time so that one group can`t get madder than the next.
BEHAR: I see.
I remember on "The View", Rosie O`Donnell got in trouble because she sort of did a joke about the Asians and they went berserk on her.
HANDLER: Well, that`s the problem. If you apologize once then you never say anything again so I don`t apologize.
BEHAR: All comedians have to apologize at some point.
HANDLER: No, I haven`t and I won`t. I`d rather quit. I have enough money from my --
BEHAR: Do you.
HANDLER: Yes, I have picked up --
BEHAR: Well, you`ve made a fortune in these books, didn`t you?
HANDLER: No, I actually picked up an extra shift at Sizzler on the weekend so that`s where I make most of my income.
BEHAR: Ok. All right.
When we come back, I want to find out how you got Gwyneth Paltrow to curse out her grandmother. You were in on that?
HANDLER: No, I wasn`t in on it. I was there and I loved it.
BEHAR: Ok. We`re going to talk about it when we come back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HANDLER: You had a grandmother named Mutti and she was -- I guess "Mutti" means mom in German.
GWYNETH PALTROW, ACTRESS: Right.
HANDLER: And my Mutti was a real bitch.
PALTROW: My Mutti was a real (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was a look at Gwyneth Paltrow opening up about her grandma on "Chelsea Lately".
What brought that out, all of a sudden. What made her do that? That doesn`t seem like Gwyneth.
HANDLER: I have no idea. We were just having a regular conversation and just -- I talked about my grandmother. We had the same -- we both called our grandmothers Mutti because that`s German for mom. So she had -- and when I was reading her cookbook, I -- I saw it and I thought, oh. And so I just mentioned it and she said that, which was hilarious and perfect because Gwyneth Paltrow is you know, everyone thinks is so prim and proper and she is just -- she is a great girl, and she`s down to earth and she`s salty too.
So it was kind of funny to hear her say that.
BEHAR: Was your grandmother a --
(CROSSTALK)
HANDLER: My grandmother was a total bitch, she was a nightmare and she hated me.
BEHAR: And Gwyneth said her grandmother hated her too.
HANDLER: Yes. Obviously, German women, there`s a problem with them. I`m actually -- I`m coming after you next, ladies.
BEHAR: Don`t you like it when people criticize you? I love that.
HANDLER: I criticize myself all the time so I don`t really have a big problem with it.
BEHAR: No. You have to have a tough skin in this business. People are going to say whatever they want.
Now, this book, "Lies that Chelsea Handler Told Me", which is -- which book is this, number four?
HANDLER: Number four, but that book is under my new imprint so I didn`t write that book, everyone -- all my friends and family, brothers and sisters wrote that book about me and I oversaw it and kind of added notes at the end of everyone`s chapter. I wrote little things and put in pictures, so it`s really good because everybody thinks that I`ve been lying about my entire life in all of my books. So we say, are these true stories?
And so I wanted people to contribute to a book to show, that yes, I`m not making up any of this. I mean I`m making up a lot of stuff but I`m not making up my own life.
BEHAR: I see. I was reading some of the things that you supposedly said is lie. But they sound more like practical jokes than lies.
HANDLER: Yes they`re more --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: -- I wouldn`t ever lie about something serious or be, you know, I`m not a liar like that. No, I`m very to my detriment I`m very direct and I will always tell the truth.
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: But I -- when I think -- I need to be amused constantly, so I like to play jokes on people or send e-mails from people`s accounts to other people --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: -- and kind of off the closet --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Like -- let me tell you what, you told one of the writers to leave his honeymoon for a "Time" magazine photo shoot. What happened then when you did that?
HANDLER: Well, he was so paranoid that he was going to miss out on being in "Time" magazine, because that was his parents dreams and the fact that it`s on my show and then we combined the fact that "Time" magazine would be doing a piece on us. To him it was just like, he couldn`t take it. He was like, oh, my God, his parents made him go to business school, he just had to go get his masters and he was just, he couldn`t believe that he would miss out on this opportunity.
So we kind of did it as a group collectively, sent him e-mails saying, you know, it`s such a shame you can`t be here for this, it`s "Time" magazine.
BEHAR: It`s so mean. It was really mean. It was evil.
HANDLER: It was really mean. And then once he finally booked the ticket to come back and leave his honeymoon early we told him it`s a lie. I didn`t tell him but we had someone tell him. And then --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So what happened then?
HANDLER: Well, then I forwarded all the e-mails to his wife and I said you should see who you married.
BEHAR: What about this one? You sent a phony gay e-mail to an executive at E! from one of your producers. What did you say? I`m really in love with you or something?
HANDLER: I just kept, I started talking about the Gaza Strip and you know, Israel to try and get him because he sent an all wide company e-mail saying certain sections of Los Angeles were going to be closed this weekend because the Israeli consulate was going to be in town and all this. And so I just kept writing back, talking about this crisis in the Middle East and what our last line of defense is, and nonsense.
I mean there`s no reason you would ever respond to that e-mail in the first place, and the fact that this guy was getting, from this guy you`ve never met in our office and he was a gay man. So he was responding just to be courteous like, yes, I get it. Good luck with the voting because the elections were coming up, I`m like, I really need somebody`s ear. I really want to discuss who to vote for. I`m torn. And just, so totally inappropriate e-mails back and forth.
And then finally he -- I said, you know, I`m -- I`m gay and what I really want.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Is you.
HANDLER: Is you. And in my mouth or something like that. Anyway, they ended up, they ended up making plans for them to meet up in Palm Springs for the weekend. It was amazing.
And so that was definitely, yes, that was one of my highlights. It`s fun to --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, you made a match.
HANDLER: But we do it with groups of people in the office so you`ll find us in the office and I mean, literally I`ve peed in my pants from laughing. Because we do it collectively so we`re just laughing so hard.
And people now when they leave their computers, I mean it`s no more fun for me to even go to work because everybody has locks and double passwords and they walk down the hallway with their computer which sometimes is a desktop so that`s awkward.
BEHAR: Have you ever checked an email -- e-mails from a boyfriend or a lover?
HANDLER: Yes, all the time. I always do that.
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: I go into people`s Blackberries all the time. I have no problem with that whatsoever.
BEHAR: What did you find out about a boyfriend?
HANDLER: Oh I`ve always found stuff. Every time you look there`s always some stupid flirty thing with somebody or something. But as long as you don`t find anything, you know, I mean I do the same thing but I don`t have any problem with -- I`m not one of those people like, you can`t look at my stuff. You can`t look at my private -- like you go through my Blackberry if you want to.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes there`s nothing there that they don`t know --
HANDLER: Good luck yes
BEHAR: -- they haven`t seen.
HANDLER: I`m telling you everything any way.
BEHAR: It`s impressive that you have your own imprint. I`m fascinated by that. How do you get something like that?
HANDLER: You have to sell a lot of books I think.
BEHAR: It means like -- you`re like a publisher.
HANDLER: I am. I know, it`s such a joke, too.
BEHAR: Well, your books are very popular. I mean I have an assistant here, she lives -- lives for you. When she sees you she`s going to get so happy.
HANDLER: Oh why isn`t she here? Did you fire her?
BEHAR: No, no she moved on to MTV. They paid her more money.
HANDLER: Oh yes. MTV is known for their huge budget.
BEHAR: Just shows you what kind of budget we have here.
Now, is there one person that you`re dying to have on your show? People always ask me that. I never have an answer.
HANDLER: I don`t really -- I used to say David Hasselhoff, but I`ve said this so many times as a joke, obviously.
BEHAR: Well, he`s been here.
HANDLER: Has he?
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: Really?
BEHAR: He was here with his daughters. Weird.
HANDLER: Oh when was that?
BEHAR: How long ago was that? Ages ago, yes.
HANDLER: Well, he said he won`t come on my show. He`s scared of me, he said. I don`t know why he would feel that way.
BEHAR: Why? What is he scared of?
HANDLER: Probably he`s scared of staying sober long enough for me to interview him. Was he sober when he was here?
BEHAR: I don`t know, was he?
HANDLER: Just out of curiosity.
BEHAR: He was.
HANDLER: He was with his daughters so he probably has to stay sober.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
HANDLER: No burgers, no alcohol.
BEHAR: All right.
So let`s see. I mean, I`m just fascinated by the fact that you`re such an important author all this time.
HANDLER: Well, it`s funny that I am an important author because I didn`t even graduate from college, you know. And I`m sure you have done commencement speeches before?
BEHAR: No, I`m never asked.
HANDLER: Well, ok, really? Really?
BEHAR: I mean, they ask Snooki. They don`t ask me.
HANDLER: That`s really embarrassing.
BEHAR: It is, I`m humiliated by that.
HANDLER: Well, I think, as a good example -- as a good example, I did one at Emory this weekend because my brother and sister both graduated from there. And I forwarded my sister the e-mail when they asked me to do the commencement speech and my sister said, oh, my God, this is getting ridiculous. Now you`re doing commencement speeches? You didn`t even -- you went to community college for a month.
And -- but I think it`s just a great testament you know with all the books and I`m -- first of all, I love this book because you know, I didn`t have to work so hard at writing it as the other ones. But I -- I think it`s a testament to like you know, you can just do kind of whatever you want. You really can in this business.
BEHAR: I know, it`s incredible.
HANDLER: And people have all these archetypes about the way they think things are supposed to happen and late night shows and they`re supposed to be this format. And you can`t put a little person on a TV show and you can`t do this and everyone`s like you can`t write a book about one- night stands. And people are saying -- they`re always telling you, you can`t, you can`t, you can`t.
BEHAR: Right.
HANDLER: And what I`ve been thinking a lot about lately is you really can. You can create your own TV show. You can be, you know, author, a performer, a writer, a comedian. You can do whatever you want to do. And people, I think respond because they know that you`re being truthful, you know. You`re not fitting into somebody else`s idea of what you should be.
BEHAR: Yes.
HANDLER: And so it`s nice to kind of create your own opportunities especially as a woman. And I hate to ride that horse because I hate when people are like, is it hard being a woman --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They`ll ride it.
HANDLER: -- in comedy because I actually think it`s easier being a woman in comedy.
BEHAR: You do?
HANDLER: Yes, I mean you get noticed more quickly, you know, if you`re -- if you`re funny.
BEHAR: It`s hard to make them laugh, though. It`s a little harder when you have a lot of drunken guys in the audience.
HANDLER: Well, yes, that`s hard, but I mean I`m usually drunk anyway.
BEHAR: One time I opened for Buddy Rich, the drummer --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You know the famous drummer?
HANDLER: Yes, Buddy Rich from my --
BEHAR: No. He`s like old, old school.
HANDLER: Then I don`t know him.
BEHAR: He had a whole audience of drummers from Queens who were just using their sticks drumming while I was on stage. And I said, listen, Buddy will be out, he`s doing a little cocaine. Get off, they`re yelling. Get off. That was hard for 50 bucks.
We`ll be back with more.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: I`m back with Chelsea Handler. So you`re doing stand-up again?
HANDLER: I`m doing this tour for the book, the "Lies that Chelsea Handler Told Me"; it`s the "Lies Tour". So we`re going to have three of the authors from the "Cleaning the Road" (ph) chapters in the book that are on the show. They`re going to open for me and I`m going to go, and then we`re going to do a big Q&A. So we`re doing, you know, every city, Denver, Phoenix, whatever -- blah, blah, blah -- Chicago.
BEHAR: Do you like to do that? Do you like to travel and do stand- up?
HANDLER: I do. I like, I like -- even though it`s hard -- it`s a hard kind of -- it`s hard to spend all that time traveling, you know.
BEHAR: But you have your friends with you.
HANDLER: Yes, well, I work with these people, too. I don`t need to be spending extra time on planes with them. But yes, I do, it`s good for the fans. I think it`s really -- I`m really grateful that I have a career, so I like to be able to show up for them. And I think it`s important for the book, and you know, they like it. If people want to spend money to see you perform then you should perform.
BEHAR: Right. That`s true.
HANDLER: I think so.
BEHAR: Not everybody can get them into those seats.
HANDLER: No, no. Right. Exactly.
BEHAR: Ok. Here`s a couple of Facebook questions. You were offered "Dancing with the Stars" but you turned it down. Why?
HANDLER: Because I have a job.
BEHAR: You don`t have time. Ok. It is a full time job.
HANDLER: That is a ridiculous program. You will never see me dancing.
BEHAR: Me either. I hate it. I mean, I watch it sometimes because it`s like --
HANDLER: I can`t even watch it. I can`t even watch it. Obviously I had to watch when Kirstie Alley was on. I wanted to see what was going to happen to the floor, but I just didn`t -- I can`t watch that show.
BEHAR: She`ll get you for that.
HANDLER: She -- no, she hates me already, it`s ok.
BEHAR: Well, she hates me too. What is that?
HANDLER: She`s mad because we make fun of her. I`m sure.
BEHAR: I never made a fat joke about her.
HANDLER: Oh, well, she hates me because -- I know why she hates me. And I sleep well at night, so I`m ok with that.
BEHAR: Is it true Chelsea broke up with 50 Cent. Did you go out with him?
HANDLER: Not seriously. I mean, I just fooled around a little bit, you know. I was just landscaping the atmosphere, trying to see what`s out there, if I still like chocolate.
BEHAR: Do you still like chocolate?
HANDLER: I liked it for a little bit but not long-term.
BEHAR: I see. What`s your color?
HANDLER: I don`t really have a color. I`m kind of like open to anything. But, you know.
BEHAR: Are you dating anyone now?
HANDLER: I am.
BEHAR: Tell me.
HANDLER: Tell you what?
BEHAR: Tell me about him?
HANDLER: He doesn`t want me to talk about him publicly.
BEHAR: You don`t have to tell me his name.
HANDLER: I didn`t say it was a man. Let`s be friends -- no, he doesn`t want to -- I have to try -- this is the new part of my life where I`m trying to respect other people in my life instead of exploiting and humiliating them. How am I doing?
BEHAR: You`re doing great.
One more question, how did you meet your assistant sidekick, Chewy? Is Chewy the little person?
HANDLER: I met -- yes, he`s the little person. Thanks for watching, Joy. He`s what I call little nugget. He`s like 4`3 and he weighs about 150 pounds, which is kind of like my favorite measurement.
BEHAR: Oh, I like that.
HANDLER: Yes, he`s cute.
BEHAR: So where`d you find him?
HANDLER: He was -- I saw him on the road, I think, probably selling fruit in L.A. or something. He`s a little Mexican is what he is. And he`s fat and he looks like something out of Super Mario Brothers. And I had to have him. So I got him.
BEHAR: I love that you put somebody like that on your show. As you said before, don`t let them tell you what to do.
HANDLER: No. No. Don`t let them tell you what to do.
BEHAR: I know.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: Up next, I`m joined by a true living legend, Dick van Dyke. I love saying "Dyke" on television". Dyke, dyke, dyke, dyke.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Dick Van Dyke has had an incredible life as an actor, singer, dancer. And I bet you didn`t know, he once turned down a career offer from the mob. Apparently, they made him an offer he could refuse. He talks all about it in his new book, "My Lucky Life in and Out of Showbiz." I asked Dick how much luck actually had to do with his success. Check it out.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DICK VAN DYKE, ACTOR: When they came to me to write a book, I said, well, my life`s kind of bland, really. But as I started talking about it, I realized almost everything that happened to me was because I was in the right place at the right time.
BEHAR: Well --
VAN DYKE: I just lucked into it.
BEHAR: -- you had talent also. Come on. You`re too modest.
VAN DYKE: Well, you`ve got to be able to deliver once you get the break.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s right. That`s right. How old are you now?
VAN DYKE: 85 years old.
BEHAR: 85 years old. And all the hair is still there? Your skin looks good. You still look great. I mean --
VAN DYKE: Thank you. Good genes, I guess.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. I think so.
VAN DYKE: If I had taken better care -- what is the old line? If I`d known I was going to live this long, I would have taken better care of myself.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now at first you thought Mary was wrong for the role on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Well, she was I thought too young. She was about 12 years younger than I. And I said to Carl, she`s pretty, and she is a good actress, but can she be funny? I`m probably the last person ever to ask that question.
BEHAR: Well, they remember in "The Mary Tyler Moore Show" when she did that incredible laughing (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: With the clown, the clown?
BEHAR: With the clown. Remember that?
VAN DYKE: Oh, that was one of the greatest episodes I ever saw.
BEHAR: That was something, I think.
VAN DYKE: She just had it.
BEHAR: I don`t think people realize how hard it is to cry and laugh and cry and laugh like that and make it funny.
VAN DYKE: She was the best crier on television.
BEHAR: Yes. But it`s hard to cry funny.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. The minute she said -- the first time she said, oh Rob, I said, we`re home.
BEHAR: Oh, Rob! OK, you and Mary were very funny together on "The Dick Van Dyke Show." So let`s look at a clip.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Little guys like that develop powerful crushes on their teachers. Boy, I remember I had a teacher that I would have married in a minute. Miss Eisenstad (ph), gorgeous redhead with a figure like you never--
MARY TYLER MOORE, ACTRESS: What year was this?
VAN DYKE: Third.
MOORE: Grade school.
VAN DYKE: No, college.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You were hot for her, weren`t you, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Yes, I had a real crush on her.
BEHAR: You really did.
VAN DYKE: And she claims she had one on me, too. Which is I think why it worked so well. A lot of people thought we were married in real life.
BEHAR: But you never actually consummated.
VAN DYKE: Oh, no, not in those days, no.
BEHAR: No consummation.
VAN DYKE: No consummation.
BEHAR: Let me talk about some of the things in your book that were kind of, you know, some demons in your life.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You say your life wasn`t interesting. You had a bout with alcoholism. I mean, you were married and divorced and women died on you. I mean, you know, you`ve had some things happen to you.
VAN DYKE: They keep dying on me.
BEHAR: You know. But let`s talk about the alcoholism. Were you really an alcoholic, a real one, or were you just a tippler?
VAN DYKE: Well, I always thought I was just a heavy drinker, but they told me, you know, you`re an alcoholic. You have to own up to that.
What happened, I worked nightclubs in my 20s and never drank. I was a teetotaler. And in my early 30s, I had always been kind of shy. And trouble with strangers, I`d break out in a sweat. And I found a martini or two, and I suddenly became uninhibited and I thought funny. And -- I never drank in public or at work or anything of that kind. But I had too many at home, you know, five and six became eight or nine. And I would go to work with a hangover.
BEHAR: Eight or nine martinis?
VAN DYKE: Not all together. No, I found other things.
BEHAR: But hard liquor. Now, we`re not talking even a glass of wine. We`re talking about hard alcohol.
VAN DYKE: Yes, alcohol, vodka and things of that kind.
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: What?
BEHAR: You must have been on your face.
VAN DYKE: No, I was -- I had an empty -- a hollow leg, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: No, I never fell down or anything. And the strange thing was, I never slurred my speech. My wife could never tell. I did a sketch about that. But anyway, I realized -- I tried to quit and couldn`t. I had to have that drink in the evening. So that`s when I went for help.
BEHAR: What would happen to you if you couldn`t get that drink at night? What would happen to you?
VAN DYKE: Nervousness, you know.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: I think I probably could have bypassed it, but I just didn`t have the will.
BEHAR: You didn`t want to.
VAN DYKE: I didn`t want to, right.
BEHAR: You did not want to. Did you go to AA?
VAN DYKE: I went to AA, went to rehab. And in those days, it was before the rehab. They locked you up with the psychos.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: I was in a room with a guy who saw little guys in top hats dancing across his chest.
BEHAR: Really?
VAN DYKE: And I thought, I`ve got to get out of here.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: So it`s like the bins (ph), they used to call it, right? You were in the bins (ph) with the--
VAN DYKE: Oh, God.
BEHAR: So they would mix alcoholics with mentally ill people?
VAN DYKE: And people -- people crazy, yes.
BEHAR: That is unbelievable.
VAN DYKE: Yes. Well, they put -- they bumped them all together psychologically. You know, there was something wrong mentally with the person who drank.
BEHAR: What about AA? You never went to AA?
VAN DYKE: I did. I went to AA, too.
BEHAR: Did that help you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Yes.
BEHAR: That helps a lot of people.
VAN DYKE: AA is a marvelous organization.
BEHAR: And you know, the thing about you is you were early to come out with your addiction. A lot of people in those days used to keep it under wraps, but you actually told it.
VAN DYKE: Yes, it was in the early `70s. You remember Mercedes McCambridge, the actress?
BEHAR: Oh, yes, sure.
VAN DYKE: She was the first one to ever come out. She went before Congress. And I thought, this is a good way to remove that stigma, you know, that it`s not skid-row bums and people with no will power. I`m a middle-class guy, and it happened to me. So -- I`m glad I did that. It`s gotten -- I`ve gotten a lot of good feedback from it.
BEHAR: Well, that was good of you, because then Oprah came along and Phil Donahue and everybody was claiming to be an alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: Yes, well, nobody today hadn`t been to rehab.
BEHAR: And where are you going to meet a man if you don`t go to AA these days? Match.com doesn`t work as well as AA meetings.
VAN DYKE: People -- they use it to network who aren`t even alcoholics.
BEHAR: Exactly. Now, all this time you were what they call a functioning alcoholic.
VAN DYKE: That`s (inaudible).
BEHAR: Because you were working on "The Dick Van Dyke Show."
VAN DYKE: Sure.
BEHAR: And other things you were doing, "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Do some of those dance numbers with a hangover, it`s hard.
BEHAR: And how did you get through supercalifragilistic- expialidocious when you were drunk?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was never drunk. I never was drunk at work, ever.
BEHAR: No?
VAN DYKE: No, I didn`t do that.
BEHAR: So you didn`t really start drinking until you went home?
VAN DYKE: That`s correct.
BEHAR: I see.
VAN DYKE: I`d go home and have my martini and then another one. That was the problem.
BEHAR: OK, all right. We`re going to take a break. And when we come back, I want to find out how you became a love child. I love that. We`ll be right back with a little surprise also for Dick. Yeah.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(MUSIC)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Dick Van Dyke and Julie Andrews in the classic "Mary Poppins." She`s a great girl, Julie, she`s a lovely person.
VAN DYKE: Oh, what a lady.
BEHAR: Now, at 18, you found out you were a love child. Now, you told me you`re 85 now. So this is back in the day when a love child was something to be ashamed of. Nowadays, everyone`s a love child.
VAN DYKE: You`re right. But this was 1925 when I was born.
BEHAR: Wow. Yes, yes, yes.
VAN DYKE: It was during the war, and my mother was washing dishes. I was drying. And I said, you know, mom, I`m going to get drafted. And I think I`d better join something like the Air Force, because I`m going to be 18 in March. She said, I have something to tell you. You`re already 18. I said, what? And she said, well, you were premature. Oh, you had no fingernails or anything. And my grandmother said, baloney.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Grandma, she said -- she said the truth.
VAN DYKE: But in those days, we lived in Danville, Illinois. They went to Missouri for a few days, had me, and brought me back, because it was a terrible scandal in those days. I`m kind of proud of being a love child.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, as I said, they`re all love children now.
VAN DYKE: Of course. But you didn`t talk about that in those days. But the first time, I tell in the book, nobody knew that.
BEHAR: But your father was your biological father?
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes, he was my real dad.
BEHAR: No, the parents (ph), they had a shotgun, they got married and they--
VAN DYKE: That`s right. Yes, I don`t blame them at all.
BEHAR: The other thing, another thing about you is that you were married for 35 years to your childhood sweetheart.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You got married very young.
VAN DYKE: Very young.
BEHAR: And then you fell for Michelle Triola.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: You know, we know Michelle Triola because she was in that palimony suit--
VAN DYKE: With Lee Marvin, that`s true.
BEHAR: -- with Lee Marvin. She made palimony a word that`s in the dictionary now.
VAN DYKE: Of course, yes.
BEHAR: Yeah. So now, tell me what happened there. Such interesting stuff.
VAN DYKE: Unfortunately, the spouses of performers have a terrible, terrible life. They get shunted aside, pushed aside, ignored. And my wife, as proud as she was of me, just hated show business, for good reason. And she wanted me at about 40 to leave, to retire.
BEHAR: Leave showbiz.
VAN DYKE: And of course, I loved to perform. And on top of that, I couldn`t afford to retire at that time. And we moved to Arizona, to the desert, and kind of away from show business. And it just wasn`t working. And I had to keep working, for two reasons. I loved it, and I needed the money. And at that time, Michelle was working at William Morris, my agent. And we used to have--
BEHAR: Well, that guarantees that you`ll never work right there.
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: I`m sorry. Go ahead. Sorry.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: You`re absolutely right.
BEHAR: Yes.
VAN DYKE: But we became acquainted, had lunch once in a while. And she, of course, was show business oriented and loved it and supported me. And just one of those things, as I explain in the book that happened, everything was amicable. You know, there wasn`t any -- nobody was angry or anything. It just happened.
BEHAR: It just happened.
VAN DYKE: Divorce is something that I never dreamed would happen to me. But it did.
BEHAR: It did. And you started to see Michelle.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: Triola for a long time.
VAN DYKE: Yes, we were together 37 years.
BEHAR: 37 years. How long were you with your wife?
VAN DYKE: About 30.
BEHAR: 30. And--
VAN DYKE: So I was never a bachelor.
BEHAR: No, you were never a bachelor.
VAN DYKE: I went from my mother to my wife. And to this day, I can`t bear to be alone.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, you`re a serial monogamist.
VAN DYKE: Exactly.
BEHAR: The only thing is that you never got married to Michelle. You were divorced at that point. Why didn`t you marry her?
VAN DYKE: She was a procrastinator.
BEHAR: And a palimony freak, apparently.
VAN DYKE: Oh, yes. Oh, yes. That was all on paper. But I kept saying, come on, let`s get married, I want to get married. We will. We will. And she just kept putting it off.
BEHAR: She didn`t want to get married.
VAN DYKE: She wanted to, but she just--
BEHAR: She just didn`t (inaudible)--
VAN DYKE: I guess it was that independence, you know, didn`t want to be dependent.
BEHAR: I understand it. I`m with a guy 29 years this July, and I`m not married to him.
VAN DYKE: Is that right?
BEHAR: Yes. I understand Michelle Triola.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Except if there`s any palimony, he`s going to get it from me.
Now you have -- here`s the other interesting thing. Before we go to that, we have a surprise for you. There is an old friend of yours on the phone. Hello?
CARL REINER: Hello there.
BEHAR: Who`s that voice?
REINER: I think it`s Carl Reiner.
VAN DYKE: Oh, my God, Carl!
REINER: Dick, oh, it`s so nice to hear you talk about your life. You know, I want to say one thing. I`ve known Dick for so many years and we worked together so closely. When I read his book, by the way, which I think is one of the most thrilling, exciting books to read, because he tells it all. He tells things about himself I had never dreamed were in his life.
And one of the things I remembered is what -- well, I knew he was a good person, but the way he took care of everybody. Dick, when I read about you taking care of -- Michelle Triola had been married once to a guy named Skip Ward (ph) 130 years before he met her. And when he heard later on that Skip Ward was in trouble, he took care of him on his death bed. I said, this is over and beyond the call of being a good guy.
BEHAR: That`s very nice. You`re a good person to know in case anything happens.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But Carl is the creator --
VAN DYKE: My favorite human being in the world.
BEHAR: Let`s explain to people who are under 50 that Carl created "The Dick Van Dyke Show," is a great performer.
VAN DYKE: For himself.
BEHAR: For himself. And then you got the part that he was supposed to get, right?
VAN DYKE: That`s right. The network didn`t like his performance.
BEHAR: Carl, why didn`t you -- what happened there? Tell us about--
REINER: Well, you know, I did a pilot with somebody called Barbara Billingsley. We showed it to people. They said, it was OK. And horses and guns played a lot that year, and situation comedies were out. And I went on to do some movies. I wrote the first couple of movies for Doris Day. And then somebody knew that I had written 13 episodes for myself. And they were -- (inaudible), and they were so upset that it was laying around. So they called me in to see Sheldon Leonard (ph), who had this company. And Sheldon said, we`d like to do that show. And I said, no, Sheldon, I don`t want to fail with the same material again. He says, you won`t fail because we`ll get a better actor to play you.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I guess he figured that one out.
REINER: And he suggested Dick Van Dyke, and Dick was in "Bye Bye Birdie." I knew of him. I went to see him, I said, my God. I didn`t know the extent of his talent. I knew he could sing and dance, but I didn`t know that he was a totally coordinated man, the most coordinated human being I`ve ever met.
BEHAR: Very coordinated. You know, you decided to call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," Carl, right?
REINER: Yes.
BEHAR: And I read in Dick`s book that Rose Marie, who is famous -- also on "Hollywood Squares," Rose Marie to block, that`s what I call her. Rose Marie said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke? Now, why did she say that, Dick?
VAN DYKE: Because nobody ever heard of me. That`s why the show didn`t do very well.
(CROSSTALK)
VAN DYKE: Everybody said, what`s a Dick Van Dyke?
REINER: By the way, that`s exactly why I promoted the fact that we should call it "The Dick Van Dyke Show," because I was very upset that all kinds of game show hosts were calling the star of the show. And I said, those guys are not stars. They are game show hosts. I said, the real star of the show is Dick Van Dyke. And they said, well, nobody knows him. I said, yes, but that`s how they`ll get to know him. We`ll call this "The Dick Van Dyke Show," they`ll say, oh, that must be the guy who is star of the show, playing Rob Petrie. Anyway--
BEHAR: Carl, those were the days when people like you were running things and you created stars. Now they want you to be a star already before they give you a shot.
VAN DYKE: Overnight, yes.
BEHAR: Yes, it`s a little different these days.
VAN DYKE: It sure is.
BEHAR: Carl, thanks so much for joining us. We love you so much.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Carl.
REINER: I`ve got to say one thing before I leave.
BEHAR: OK.
REINER: I saw Joy Behar in her first incarnation when Estelle Reiner was opening for the first time in New York at Green Street (ph).
BEHAR: That`s right.
REINER: You were a young singer -- not singer, teacher, and so pretty and cute and sexy. And I said, who is that girl? And it turned out to be you, Joy Behar.
BEHAR: Thank you, Carl. And you know, we feel bad about Estelle. You know, Carl and Estelle Reiner were married for so many years.
VAN DYKE: I know.
BEHAR: She passed away a few years ago. How are you doing with that, Carl?
REINER: Well, I think of her every night. 65 years, you don`t lose somebody.
BEHAR: And you`re hanging out with Mel Brooks all the time, I hear from some of my spies. So give him our best and tell him he could come on my show if he wants to. I`d love to have him here. And you.
REINER: I will tell him that tonight.
BEHAR: OK, thank you, Carl. We`re going to have more in a minute with Dick Van Dyke when we return. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VAN DYKE: Put (inaudible) under my neck.
MOORE: Did you pay the bill?
VAN DYKE: I paid the bill. I got it. All right? That is just about everything, huh?
MOORE: How about the baby?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dick Van Dyke. You know, the early sitcom that you did was just the best thing. It was just the greatest.
VAN DYKE: It was the must fun I ever had.
BEHAR: The most fun, of course. You had a great team, look -- and it clicked, it had chemistry.
Some of the people that you`ve run into along the way, just -- before we have to go, because we`re running out of time. But like for instance, Walt Disney himself cast you in "Mary Poppins."
VAN DYKE: Right.
BEHAR: What was he like? You know, the rumors are that he was an anti-Semite. Did you ever hear that?
VAN DYKE: I have heard that. I never saw any of it at all. He was an old shoe. He was just the way he appeared. Everybody called him Uncle Walt, and he had that avuncular attitude. Easy-going and never lost his inner child. He was a big kid.
BEHAR: Well, he had to be for that stuff, yes.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: So you don`t think that`s true about him?
VAN DYKE: I don`t think so. No.
BEHAR: That he was anti-Semitic.
VAN DYKE: I really don`t think so.
BEHAR: I wonder how these things get started. And then I understand that someone in the mob wanted to manage you at one point. That was interesting.
VAN DYKE: Way, way back in the early `50s, we were looking at Martha Ray`s 5:00 Club (ph) in Miami, and this guy came to me and wanted me to leave my partner. I had a partner at that time, said he`d pay all my expenses, buy my clothes, write the material, and arrange for the clubs.
BEHAR: And pay you $15,000 a week.
VAN DYKE: Those days -- $15,000 a week, I--
BEHAR: You were making 300.
VAN DYKE: Yeah.
BEHAR: We figured it out.
VAN DYKE: How did you find out?
BEHAR: We did the math.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: And my agent said, are you crazy? They`ll own you. You`ll never get away from them. I didn`t understand it in those days. So I didn`t sign up.
BEHAR: Well, good, you didn`t. OK. One more story before we go. You danced for Fred Astaire. Did he think you were a good dancer? The great Fred Astaire?
VAN DYKE: I heard him say on the air, and very few people heard this. He was on a morning talk show. And he was asked, what do you think about the new crop of young dancers? He said, I like the way Dick Van Dyke moves. I almost drove off the freeway. I was going to work. I got to work, said, did you hear what Fred Astaire -- to this day I haven`t found anybody who heard him say it.
(LAUGHTER)
VAN DYKE: But I heard him.
BEHAR: You heard him say it. That`s all that counts.
VAN DYKE: Of course.
BEHAR: And also, that, you know, you were very big -- you were at a Martin Luther King rally one time. Of course, this was many years before the man was assassinated.
VAN DYKE: Yes.
BEHAR: And it must have been -- you were nervous then, weren`t you?
VAN DYKE: Oh, I was -- he was at the coliseum out on a football field, and I was sitting next to him. And just before we went out, they said -- we were -- there had already been a threat on Dr. King`s life.
BEHAR: Even then? That was--
VAN DYKE: Yes. And this was the early `60s. And I`m embarrassed to say I sat like this next to King, hoping the guy was a good shot.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I can`t tell you what a pleasure it`s been to spend this time.
VAN DYKE: Thank you, Joy, I loved it.
BEHAR (singing): I`m so glad to spend this time with you -- that was what`s her name, that`s Carol Burnett. Right? I`m getting everything mixed up now.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
