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Joy Behar Page
Arnie: Born to Cheat; Interview With Marlee Matlin; Interview With Suze Orman
Aired May 23, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Rumors are flying that Arnold Schwarzenegger may have fathered many more children than the one reported. You know, I think he thinks he`s a member of the monarchy, who needs to spread his seed all over the place, all over the world. Take Edward I of England, for example. He fathered 18 children. King Saud of Saudi Arabia, 52 at last count. And Genghis Kahn may have fathered thousands. That`s what they did.
Of course, the closest we come to royalty in this country is Prince, Lady Gaga and Queen Latifah, none of whom have any children. Then again, none of them has spent the weekend with Arnold Schwarzenegger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. In the wake of Arnold`s sex scandal, Joy wants to know, does power create pigs? Or are some men just born cheaters?
Then Marlee Matlin gives Joy the dirt on the dramatic finale of "Celebrity Apprentice".
Plus Suze Orman talks about Oprah`s final three shows.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: By now everyone knows that Arnold Schwarzenegger fathered a child with his housekeeper. But the boy`s apparently not an only love child. In fact, Arnold may have so many kids that Angelina Jolie may have to adopt 10 or 11 of them.
So what`s up with powerful men acting like pigs? Does power make them this way or were they born with a pig gene?
Here to discuss this lovely story are Robi Ludwig, psychotherapist and contributor to care.com; Bill Press, radio talk show host; and the lovely Bonnie Fuller, president and editor in chief of hollywoodlife.com.
Ok. Robi, do you think Arnold was always a pig or did fame and power make him a pig?
ROBI LUDWIG, PSYCHOTHERAPIST: I would bet that he had an inclination to cheat even before he became famous and powerful.
And if you look into the history of some of these men who cheat, it`s just their idea of what men should do; in some cases they had fathers who cheated, it`s their idea of an alpha male.
BEHAR: I see.
LUDWIG: It`s just their role in life.
BEHAR: So what`s the difference between a powerful man and an ordinary guy? Is there any in this area?
LUDWIG: Well, they`ve done studies which suggest that men who become more powerful, become more confident, and have more opportunity. And the combination of the two is sometimes just too difficult to pass up.
BEHAR: So the availability, right, Bill, is part of the issue?
BILL PRESS, RADIO TALK SHOW HOST: Oink, oink; is that what I`m supposed to say here? Suddenly I wonder.
LUDWIG: Being the token guy?
BEHAR: We`re not against all men, only particular ones. And women. Some women.
PRESS: I think, to Robi`s point, I think all men basically think with their penis -- all men. Whether they`re salesmen or firemen or -- instead of with their brains. And powerful men particularly do. You know, they have this -- whether it`s political power, like Arnold, or like John Ensign, or like Eliot Spitzer or --
BEHAR: John Edwards.
PRESS: John Edwards, or corporate power or celebrity power, you know, like Tiger Woods. So the more powerful they are, I think the more inclination. And the more they think they can get away with it. It`s almost their entitlement because they`re powerful.
BEHAR: Yes. I see.
BONNIE FULLER, HOLLYWOODLIFE.COM: Well, it seems the more powerful they get the more enablers that they`ve got around them. Because people buy in to the fact that they can do things for them. I mean, people wanted Arnold to become governor. And so they enabled him. So if that meant keeping some women on the side really quiet and keeping it out of his wife`s line of vision, they did that.
And I do agree, I think that there`s the horniness factor belongs to all men. Also I think these guys have been -- they`ve been brought up in some way that they do feel entitled to act on it more than ordinary guys.
LUDWIG: It`s normal within their environment. It`s normalized so they think well, all these other men are doing it, I`m doing it too. And the idea that they can get caught becomes really background noise. And they start to feel, even if I do get caught it won`t matter because my wife will forgive me.
PRESS: Now, I`m not defending these pigs. Right?
BEHAR: Don`t you dare.
PRESS: No, I`m not.
(CROSSTALK)
PRESS: I wouldn`t even try. Not at this table. But I have to point out too, it is true that there are a lot of women -- we`re talking about men here -- there are a lot of women who are attracted to men in power.
BEHAR: Yes. Are you, Bonnie?
FULLER: Am I attracted to men in power? Certainly but I wouldn`t want to marry a man like Arnold and I think that Maria had to have some inkling there was a partnership involved in this relationship. I mean don`t you think he targeted her? He knew she was a Kennedy. He knew she had political connections.
LUDWIG: Absolutely.
BEHAR: What was her part in that, though?
FULLER: I think that she was a Kennedy too and she wanted to do good, she would have loved to -- she loved to be the governor`s wife. But maybe her reasons were different because it gave her a power to do something beneficial to the world.
PRESS: You mentioned John Edwards. Right?
BEHAR: Yes.
PRESS: Ok, pig. But Rielle Hunter really went after him and she got him.
BEHAR: Yes, I know.
PRESS: So -- and that was consensual and they have a love child too. I`m not defending it --
BEHAR: According to TMZ, this mistress, this housekeeper also went after him a little bit.
PRESS: That`s right.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you know what?
LUDWIG: Also, we don`t know. Arnold was her boss. We can even say sexual harassment there; that`s somebody who was not in a position of power --
BEHAR: That`s true.
LUDWIG: -- really know what`s going on.
PRESS: Wait, wait -- whoa, whoa, whoa. I think at least ten years she stayed in the house, at least ten years.
BEHAR: In the bed.
PRESS: Presumably having sex with him for at least ten years after she has this child. I don`t think that`s sexual harassment. I think she was enjoying it as much as he was.
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: At a certain point, yes.
FULLER: I do think in this that case he happened to meet up with a woman in his household who had some weird obsessions of her own because apparently she was dressing up in Maria`s clothing. They were sleeping in her bed. I mean she wanted that life.
I mean one report --
BEHAR: Well, how lazy is he that he can`t go out and find something. Has to be in the house.
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: He`s probably doing that too.
PRESS: Come on.
BEHAR: What kind of hubris doesn`t wear a condom. What kind of hubris -- what kind of man is that that doesn`t wear a condom and dusts his apple seed all over the place.
FULLER: Tiger did it too.
PRESS: You know look, why didn`t he have a vasectomy?
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: But this is the best kind of alpha male, that`s the biological component. Liking the idea that you can get lots of different women pregnant. The reality of it isn`t so pleasant.
BEHAR: What if the guy is just a regular guy like Bill, or my boyfriend Steve. They`re regular guys, they`re good guys. I can`t imagine Steve acting like that, no matter how big a job he would have. I can`t imagine it. Does it have to be that every man in that position will go there?
LUDWIG: No.
PRESS: No.
FULLER: No.
LUDWIG: I think we all agree.
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: I think there`s some kind of internal moral factor or deep religious vent where they`re just deeply committed. I think that guy is actually more interesting. How did they not give in to the seduction or the horniness of the male? How do they stop themselves? That`s more interesting.
PRESS: But with the power does come this feeling of invincibility and a certain arrogance and availability. And let`s face it. They`re used to people who do everything they want. I mean they have secretaries who make their tennis dates, you know. Go out and get them soup for lunch.
BEHAR: Right, right.
PRESS: Take their shirts to the laundry. So having sex with them, for them it just falls in as one more thing that their underlings are doing for them.
BEHAR: Jump in.
FULLER: No, but I just think it`s really -- the idea of not wearing a condom I think speaks to the invincibility. They think they are so invincible that normal things like pregnancy can`t happen to them, and STDs can`t happen to them.
LUDWIG: The charge. These men are in very exciting positions. When you are in a position of power or you are famous, it`s like being an excitement junkie.
BEHAR: Why isn`t that enough for them? There`s so much excitement in being the governor of a state, in being Arnold Schwarzenegger.
(CROSSTALK)
LUDWIG: It`s like a drug.
PRESS: You know why?
BEHAR: Why?
LUDWIG: It feels good.
PRESS: You know why? Because in the end, nothing beats good sex. I`m sorry. I mean, listen. I mean, you know, I`ve had a lot of important jobs. I was chairman of the Democratic Party. I`d give that up for good sex any day. I did.
LUDWIG: And there you have it.
BEHAR: You did give it up for good sex. You`re honest, Bill, I must say.
PRESS: Dumb maybe but honest.
FULLER: But isn`t that the cherry? I mean, it`s the cherry. They`ve gotten everything else.
BEHAR: What does the cherry have to do with this?
FULLER: You don`t have to give it up. They want the cherry on top of the sundae.
BEHAR: They want the cherry on top of the cherry.
PRESS: Can I say one thing, though -- that`s right, yes. You know, I want to say, first of all, I think it`s very interesting that we`re talking about -- I don`t know a powerful woman who has been caught in the same games.
BEHAR: No.
PRESS: Maybe I just don`t know.
LUDWIG: But I think we`ll start to see it more.
PRESS: That to me is very interesting.
And also I have to salute Maria. I love the fact that Maria said, I`m out of here, buster. You`re out of here. I`m tired of these women who stand by their men.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Why didn`t she say that when he was caught groping women? And acting like --
LUDWIG: Denial, she was in denial.
FULLER: There has to be -- I think denial is big, but I also think it goes back to the fact that she went into the marriage with certain goals. And yes, she wanted love, she wanted family. But she also wanted to get into this position where she could achieve certain things too.
BEHAR: Well, I`ll tell you this --
FULLER: I think that`s an instigator for denial.
BEHAR: Yes. And I love how when Mr. Happy gets hard the brain gets soft.
Let`s just leave on that note. This story has legs. This is not going away. I mean, more kids are going to come out.
Jane Seymour was in an interview saying she knows of two other kids. Did she deliver them when she was Dr. Quinn? How does she know this?
FULLER: That`s what I heard though.
PRESS: Well, I just want to say Mr. Happy is happy.
BEHAR: I`m glad that Mr. Happy is happy.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know -- the kids. Well, they should just not look at the television. Stop tweeting. Go to the Caribbean now or something. Get away from it all for a while. That`s what I would do if they were my kids.
(CROSSTALK)
FULLER: I think Katherine`s gone to London. She`s got a book to promote. She`s doing it.
BEHAR: They`re lovely kids. I met Katherine she`s a lovely kid. I feel bad for them because I think they did have fun with their mother and father at the dinner table.
PRESS: They did.
BEHAR: Unfortunately that`s over. Thank you very much, everybody. We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW. "Celebrity Apprentice" finalist Marlee Matlin drops by to tell us what really happened during last night`s dramatic finale.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My next guest made it to the final two on "The "Celebrity Apprentice". Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, "THE "CELEBRITY APPRENTICE": Marlee, you raised more money than anybody on a single night, over $1 million. The job you`ve done is just absolutely incredible. And the people love you. You see it tonight. You see it all over the city. I just want to congratulate you.
The winner of "The "Celebrity Apprentice" 2011 is -- John Rich.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: And although -- although, Marlee Matlin didn`t win the "Celebrity Apprentice", anyone who can survive an entire seasons with Star Jones, Nene Leakes and Gary Busey ought to win something. Might I suggest the Nobel Peace Prize.
Joining me now is Academy Award-winning actress Marlee Matlin with her interpreter and look-alike of --
(CROSSTALK)
JACK JASON, INTERPRETER FOR MARLEE MATLIN: Gilbert Gottfried.
BEHAR: Gilbert Gottfried, Jack Jason. Look at this.
JASON: Yes it`s what it is.
BEHAR: Let me hear you say AFLAC.
JASON: AFLAC.
BEHAR: Ok.
JASON: I didn`t pay them to say that, Marlee.
MARLEE MATLIN, ACTRESS: It`s all right.
BEHAR: So Marlee, do you think you should have won?
MATLIN (through translator): Absolutely. I should have won, I should have won because of all of the great things that I did on the show. I worked my ass off. I did all the tasks that I was assigned. I did what I was asked to do. I was project manager. I did whatever the things they did.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN: And I mean, what a project manager is supposed to do. And I got along with everybody which, who would have thought. And I raised $1 million in one night. And then I raised $30,000 for Star Jones and then I raised $30,000 for Meatloaf. And I did what "Celebrity Apprentice" asked me to.
BEHAR: Ok, so are you pissed?
MATLIN: No.
BEHAR: No.
MATLIN: I`m not pissed off.
No, no, in all honesty I`m not pissed off. John Rich is a wonderful guy.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: And he deserved it. And I deserved it more. But anyway, he deserved it. He did a great job for St. Jude, which I have the utmost respect for.
BEHAR: Ok.
MATLIN: I`m the Starkey Hearing Foundation, which I love, that`s where my heart is.
BEHAR: Ok.
MATLIN: But I`m not pissed off, no.
BEHAR: Well, John Rich had it easy because he didn`t have to deal with Star Jones, Nene Leeks and Dionne Warwick, ok. Was there Xanax in the green room?
MATLIN: None. None whatsoever. You know what I used?
BEHAR: What?
MATLIN: My deafness.
BEHAR: See now, that`s where being deaf comes in handy.
MATLIN: I just took out my hearing aids or I turned my head. I wouldn`t look at Jack, they would just go and talk and talk and talk, I wouldn`t look at Jack at all.
BEHAR: Were you disappointed that Star didn`t vote for you? You did raise $30,000 for her.
MATLIN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: You know, she should have voted for you.
MATLIN: I was stunned.
BEHAR: You were stunned?
MATLIN: Stunned. I mean, we worked together from day one until the very end. I mean, look, at least until she became the final -- we became the final four. And I thought, I mean I had her trust, she had my trust. We were friends. We were good team players. I mean, we really were. We really, really were --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So why do you think she didn`t vote for you?
MATLIN: I have absolutely no idea. She hasn`t even called me to say -- to explain her case.
BEHAR: What`s your theory? She wanted to vote for a man, maybe?
MATLIN: Maybe. Maybe because she wasn`t happy with ASAP in general, the team that we were on. She was always, you know, there was always a lot of bickering. And then when she got into working with the team Backbone. I mean -- she -- she was the only woman there. And so she was in charge in that respect.
BEHAR: She liked that.
MATLIN: And she liked all the attention, maybe, perhaps. I don`t know. I don`t know because -- she wanted to be the winner. And she was right there with John Rich, she was a winner.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: Because she was fired. Remember, she was fired.
BEHAR: Yes and she didn`t take it easily either, it looked like.
MATLIN: Well, she didn`t take it easily.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: But -- I mean, she fought. She`s a fighter. I admire her for that.
BEHAR: Oh yes.
MATLIN: I admire her for that but at the same time I think because John Rich won. And she did the last task, ok, fine. She wanted to be part of the "winning team" quote, unquote.
BEHAR: I see. Well, all right. Whatever.
Now, what happened to Dionne Warwick? Why wasn`t she there last night?
MATLIN: Dionne Warwick I believe was in London working.
BEHAR: Oh, so she -- all right.
MATLIN: So -- so maybe she thought all those deaf kids on the stage were too sad, as she said deafness was sad during the show.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN: In the book when -- we said we`re going to write a book, and I said let`s have a deaf character, let`s put a deaf character for a lion, a lion who can`t roar because he`s deaf.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: A show about diversity and overcoming disabilities. She says, "No, no, Marlee you can`t do that, children will be sad with a deaf character, it will be too sad." And I`m thinking, what?
BEHAR: Oh and that`s not very supportive.
MARTLEE: It`s not very supportive. But then it`s also not very intellectual either.
BEHAR: So last thing I think about you Marlee is that you`re sad. You`re not sad.
MATLIN: No.
BEHAR: You know, so that is crazy.
All right. So tell me about the after party. Any dish about the after party?
MATLIN: Just before I got in the party I got into an elevator.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: And it happened to be with Nene. And her group of people, Jack and I, were in this elevator.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: And we were all coming in. And there it was getting a little crowded. And then all of a sudden there was a fight. Gary Busey wanted to get into the elevator and he pushed one of Nene`s girlfriends.
BEHAR: Oh-oh.
MATLIN: And you don`t push a woman. You don`t push a woman.
BEHAR: No, no, no.
MATLIN: And so then Nene`s guys pushed back and it got into a screaming match. And there was -- it got physical. And Nene really wanted to take over. We were like, no, no, Nene no, no not in an elevator. It got really scary.
BEHAR: Oh my God it`s like --
MATLIN: And I mean, it`s still insane. It`s still insane.
BEHAR: -- it`s like a bunch of gang leaders. They should have motorcycle jackets.
MATLIN: The show is over. The show is over.
BEHAR: And they`re still fighting. It`s exhausting. You seem exhausted from the experience. Are you?
MATLIN: I`m -- I`m exhausted. And listen, the experience was absolutely rewarding. In all honesty, I learned a lot from Mr. Trump.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN: He is -- in terms of business. And I learned about how to run things, how to brand, how to create commercials. I mean, that`s not something I`ve ever done before.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN: And now -- now I memorize lines, I know how to act. I can write a book.
BEHAR: Right.
MATLIN: But I`m a -- and I`m a mom.
BEHAR: This is different.
MATLIN: And this is the best part.
BEHAR: Well now, do you think he should have -- he should have run for president?
MATLIN: Listen, I`m a Democrat. And --
BEHAR: Could that -- wait a minute. You`re a Democrat. So does that -- do you think it had something to do with picking John Rich who`s a Republican like he is?
MATLIN: Maybe, I don`t know. I don`t know, listen, I haven`t had a conversation with Mr. Trump about the decision he made. I can`t really assume what he thinks or what his decision was based on.
BEHAR: Yes.
MATLIN: I would like to know though. But at the same time he has a right to run for president, he`s just like any American. I would listen to what he has to say.
BEHAR: Would you have voted for him?
MATLIN: No.
BEHAR: No.
But why does everybody have to call him Mr. Trump? Does Melania have to call him Mr. Trump also?
MATLIN: I actually don`t know. I can`t hear them. That`s why. I can`t hear them.
BEHAR: I mean Dionne Warwick is older than he is and she had to call him Mr. Trump, give me a break.
Ok darling. We`ll have more with Miss Marlee Matlin.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the lovely and talented Marlee Matlin. Marlee, I want to take a look at something you said on the "Celebrity Apprentice" last night. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATLIN: When I won my Academy Award for best actress at 21 years old, the next day someone said, she won out of pity, and that she will never, ever work again. She`s DOA, deaf on arrival.
TRUMP: Whoa. That`s tough.
MATLIN: So those barriers always have come in my life and I beat them down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: You know you -- what?
MATLIN: John wouldn`t even look at me, isn`t that interesting.
BEHAR: John Rich wouldn`t look at you? At that point?
MATLIN: I just noticed that, I just saw the camera shot. He was looking --
BEHAR: Why do you think he wouldn`t look at you?
MATLIN: I don`t know, maybe he was trying to figure out what he wanted to say in response to what I had to say. I don`t know. He`s always strategizing. I love him, though.
BEHAR: You love him too.
You don`t love all of them, though, I get that. All right.
But you know, you`re a strong girl.
MATLIN: The best part is I don`t have to sleep with any of them.
BEHAR: But I wouldn`t sleep with Gary Busey, he`d bite you.
MATLIN: Star would probably bite.
BEHAR: She might bite but Gary`s got the teeth for it.
Do you think that -- I mean, I loved what you said. I loved what you said. I thought it was very, very touching and smart and showed that you have, you know, a strong inner core to yourself.
I know from other interviews I`ve done with you that you were molested as a kid, you were in abusive relationship, you had drug problems at one point. You`ve come through all of that. And you know, I think that it`s remarkable, frankly. That`s just my opinion.
MATLIN: Well, I mean, as you said I went through a lot of the adversities in my life. Not only my deafness. And I think that deafness has a lot to do with it. I learned how to listen to myself. I learned what I wanted and didn`t want. All those barriers, I kept tearing them down and tearing them down.
And not only for myself but on behalf of 35 million deaf and hard of hearing people in the United States. But don`t forget there are millions and millions more outside of the United States. And a lot of people suffer with oppression.
So I wanted to make sure that there`s access. I want to make sure there`s things like closed captioning. I want to make sure all that stuff is there. We need equality, we really do.
BEHAR: Right. I think it helped that you`re so pretty too.
MATLIN: Well, thank you.
BEHAR: Is this how you say thank you?
JASON: No, I just put a word to that what she did.
BEHAR: Tell me one thing to learn in sign language. Just one thing.
MATLIN: You --
BEHAR: You --
MATLIN: -- are fabulous.
BEHAR: -- are fabulous.
Put the camera on me. What does this mean? This is Italian.
MATLIN: That`s Italian isn`t it, for the f-word or something like that.
BEHAR: No, the f-word is more complicated, it requires two arms. This is like, "yes, right".
MATLIN: Yes, right. All right, well.
BEHAR: And this over here. I got it over here for you.
MATLIN: What`s that?
BEHAR: This is like, I`m ready to kill you any minute now. I got it over here. That`s it. See, I taught you a couple of things.
Ok, one more question. Do you think it`s hard for you -- do you have trouble getting more parts because you`re deaf, or not?
MATLIN: Well, I would say it has -- being in the business for 25 years, I have to keep continuing reminding people that there`s parts out there that I can do, they don`t have to be written deaf, we can create it with Jackie who runs my production company. Hopefully after this show people can see -- they realize, they can get it. It`s not that tough. You can do a lot of things. You can be open-minded.
BEHAR: You have a tremendous personality and you`re very effective in the way you talk. I must say. And of course he`s here. Doesn`t he get annoying after a while? It`s like --
MATLIN: He really does.
JASON: Jon Stewart said, when he interviewed Marlee, do you ever feel like there`s a little guy sitting behind you the whole time?
BEHAR: All right.
JASON: You want to slap him.
BEHAR: I got to go. It`s lovely to see you. Thank you for interpreting.
You can see Marlee in the new ABC family series "Switched at Birth" premiering Monday, June 6th at 9:00 p.m. Congratulations.
MATLIN: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Lady Gaga has replaced the long-reigning Oprah Winfrey as the most powerful celebrity according to "Forbes" magazine Celebrity 100 list. How powerful do you have to be to knock Oprah off the list? Here to talk about this and other stories in the news are Meatloaf, singer and actor. From the film "Beautiful Boy," comedienne Negin Farsad.
Is it Negin or Negin?
NEGIN FARSAD, COMEDIAN: Negin.
BEHAR: Negin, sorry.
And Joe Levy, editor in chief of "Maxim." I`m sorry. Did I -- because it`s g followed by an e --
(CROSSTALK)
FARSAD: My mother can barely pronounce my name, so you`re doing great.
BEHAR: All right. So what about this, Gaga -- first of all, she was on "The View" today, Lady Gaga.
JOE LEVY, MAXIM MAGAZINE: You were in the presence of Gaga?
BEHAR: I was in the presence --
LEVY: Did she wear pants? That`s what I want to know, what was it like? Did she wear any clothes at all?
BEHAR: She was wearing like a black hula skirt of some sort. It looked like she had hairy legs, but it wasn`t, it was like a skirt.
LEVY: Are you sure?
BEHAR: And then she had shoes that looked like two skyscrapers.
MEATLOAF, SINGER/ACTOR: And what was she wearing on her head?
BEHAR: Oh, a lot of stuff. A lot of stuff. But she`s actually just a nice Italian girl. You know? Basically, underneath all of that is a nice and talented Italian girl.
FARSAD: And her mom wears pantsuits.
BEHAR: Like Hillary Clinton.
FARSAD: Yes.
BEHAR: Yes. I think they`re going to -- she`s going to come on my show. I can`t wait to have her here. I love her, she`s a terrific girl, and so talented. OK. Never mind. She earned an impressive $90 million last year. But Oprah earned $290 million.
LEVY: Right. So "Forbes" thinks she`s more important than Oprah because of her social media following? This "Forbes" list measures not just how much money you earn, but also your cultural impact. And she`s got 33 million now. I`m joking. But she`s got 35 million Facebook followers.
BEHAR: 32 million.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: Huge, huge number of Twitter followers. Just so we`re clear on this "Forbes" list, No. 3 is Justin Bieber.
BEHAR: I know. What`s up with that?
LEVY: It goes from Gaga to Oprah to Bieber. It`s a weird list.
FARSAD: Which is the most insane thing, because I feel like at this point, Bieber`s earned the right to wear a velvet smoking jacket and his testes haven`t even descended yet. So what is wrong with my life is basically what that list makes me question.
MEATLOAF: Was I on the list?
FARSAD: No.
LEVY: I don`t know how to break this to you.
FARSAD: You weren`t in the top ten.
LEVY: You are here, which is good.
MEATLOAF: I wasn`t -- I have 350,000 Facebook followers.
LEVY: OK.
MEATLOAF: Oh. Gaga`s got 32 million, that`s right.
BEHAR: Is Donald Trump on the list?
LEVY: I don`t know if Trump is on the list. I don`t have the whole 100--
FARSAD: He was like top 50.
LEVY: There you go.
BEHAR: But Justin Bieber came in three. He`s only 17. I mean, come on, he also now has his own fragrance. Did you hear about this? It`s a woman`s fragrance. I don`t know what it`s called here. It`s called Someday. Someday.
LEVY: Does it smell like puppy dog tails and rainbows? What--
BEHAR: It should be called acne. Shouldn`t it? I mean, that would be the title I would give his perfume.
FARSAD: Next product coming out from Justin Bieber is going to be pasties. For women.
(CROSSTALK)
MEATLOAF: He can`t have that, I have that already.
BEHAR: You`re a musician. What do you think of Justin Bieber as a musician? And a singer?
MEATLOAF: I have no idea.
BEHAR: You don`t even know who he is?
MEATLOAF: He`s a child.
BEHAR: You don`t even know who the hell this kid is?
MEATLOAF: No, he`s a child, I don`t know. I mean, talk to me when he`s -- when he`s 27. I`ll let you know.
BEHAR: OK. He`s a big, big star.
MEATLOAF: No, I realize that.
BEHAR: Yes.
MEATLOAF: I got that. Usher found him. And I -- I have all that down.
LEVY: But just so we give Lady Gaga her due, her album "Born This Way" is now out.
BEHAR: Yes.
LEVY: Amazon was selling the entire record today, the whole record for 99 cents.
BEHAR: Why?
LEVY: And so many people jumped on Amazon, they crashed the Amazon site.
BEHAR: Why would they do that?
LEVY: Well, record companies do this in order to sell an inordinate number of records in the first week out. And when you`re selling them digitally, there`s no cost to them, so they just flood the market with these cheap digital copies. They have a huge sale. And that becomes the story. Next week they`ll make their money.
BEHAR: OK. There`s another story about another singer, Britney Spears. She appeared to lip-synch a sexy song about S&M with Rihanna at the Billboard Music Awards last night, take a look.
(MUSIC)
BEHAR: It`s kind of boring, isn`t it? I didn`t think that was appealing in any shape or form. She`s standing there at a pole, lip- synching.
LEVY: We didn`t get to the pole part yet, where they`re both on the poles. The sort of stripper -- the stripper -- they pulled out all the stops. Not only are there stripper poles in this routine, but at the end there`s a pillow fight. It`s like, let`s leave no fantasy unturned.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: There they are. People are watching it now. They`re like gyrating.
FARSAD: It mostly looked like she was learning how to walk in heels. You know, like she was so -- but I have to say, it was really scary looking. Because there`s like these zombie dancers trying to grab at your crotch. And so I can see why she was, you know -- she was scared to --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It reminds me of every strip club I`ve ever been to, really. And like every strip club I`ve ever been to, Rihanna`s the more talented dancer, Britney`s the blond, she`s going to earn all the money.
BEHAR: I know. But Britney used to be a good dancer. She used to really know how to move. This is like homeostasis.
MEATLOAF: What`s it like in a strip club?
BEHAR: Oh, like you don`t know.
MEATLOAF: No, I`ve got daughters.
BEHAR: Oh, come on, but you went in your heyday, I bet you went.
MEATLOAF: No, I have only been to one. That was with Bernie Corsar (ph) and his wife, and his wife got a lap dance.
BEHAR: Who the hell is Bernie Corsar?
MEATLOAF: Bernie Corsar used to be the quarterback for the Cleveland Browns.
BEHAR: Bernie Coldsore (ph)? Is that--
MEATLOAF: No, not cold sore. Bernie Corsar (ph).
BEHAR: Oh, I`m sorry, Corsar (ph).
LEVY: OK. This has taken a very weird turn, but if you have a car later, we`ll go to FlashDance (ph) and I`ll show you. It`s going to be--
(CROSSTALK)
MEATLOAF: I can`t stay there because I have daughters and I just can`t imagine my daughters doing it.
BEHAR: But the gyrating --
MEATLOAF: And I would cry.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know, you`ll start crying. But the gyrating on the poles, is this necessary really right now?
FARSAD: Didn`t they also make out at the end?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That was de rigeuer, to have a lesbian kiss.
MEATLOAF: They stole my routine, because I do that pole dance on my stage, actually.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK, now, you know, judgment day came and went.
MEATLOAF: No, we`re in the middle of it.
BEHAR: No. We`re done.
MEATLOAF: No, I`m telling you, it happened and we`re living it.
BEHAR: Oh, really?
MEATLOAF: I`m convinced of it.
BEHAR: Well, tell me about it. Why do you say that? Because according to my notes, it came and went on Saturday at 6:00.
MEATLOAF: That`s the problem, we don`t know we`re actually in it.
BEHAR: Oh, no, no. You`re just as crazy as this old man. What`s his name? Camp -- Camping, Harold Camping. I mean, he`s delusional. He drove everybody to drink that day thinking this was going to happen.
LEVY: He didn`t drive everybody to drink.
BEHAR: People who believed it.
LEVY: But here`s the thing. This was a huge media story, right? First off, he was wrong in 1994. He predicted this once before. Secondly, my wife said, why does he think this? And we watched the TV, we saw a clip of him saying, 5,800 years ago times 2 minus 1 equals Saturday. It was like, what is he talking about? And third, then you read the paper today and it says, all right, he`s got several million dollars in contributions to his radio station, blah, blah, his broadcasting network.
(CROSSTALK)
LEVY: But he convinced several hundred people that it was going to be the rapture on Saturday. Several hundred.
BEHAR: That`s it?
MEATLOAF: Oh, gosh. That was me, then. I like to think I`m in a minority and I am. OK.
BEHAR: But this guy was wrong in 1994. He called it before. So these several hundred people, are they mentally ill?
LEVY: Yes.
BEHAR: Is he crazy or what?
LEVY: They`re stupid. Well, you know, I mean, there are a lot of people believe in the rapture to begin with. They believe like they`re just going to take the express elevator up to heaven, and the rest of us, meaning the Jews, are going to be here running things like usual. But we`re just going to be left here.
(LAUGHTER)
MEATLOAF: See, see? That`s exactly -- and Gary Busey went with them.
BEHAR: They do believe that.
LEVY: They believe it. And that`s a crazy belief to begin with. So come on. And I mean, there are plenty of people who do believe the rapture is imminent. It`s just that this particular guy only convinced a few hundred it was going to happen on Saturday, and apparently we have nothing else to talk about.
BEHAR: But a lot of the evangelicals, don`t they support Israel because they believe that eventually the rapture is going to come?
LEVY: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I don`t trust that.
LEVY: The apocalypse is going to start there, yes.
BEHAR: I don`t know if that`s true --
MEATLOAF: In Israel?
LEVY: In the Middle East where, you know, civilization started. Let me get the first slide.
MEATLOAF: You have slides?
LEVY: Yes, I have slides with me everywhere.
BEHAR: He`s Jewish, he carries slides. OK, thank you guys very much. And you can see Negin in a Comedy School Dropout and Laughing Liberally off-Broadway.
We`ll be right back. See, they even spelled your name right (inaudible).
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Fabulous financial guru Suze Orman not only hosts a show on CNBC, she`s also going to host a new show on Oprah`s Own network, and she`s the author of the New York Times best-seller "The Money Class." Maybe in her spare time, she can give Newt Gingrich some advice on that $500,000 Tiffany`s bill he and his wife forgot to pay. Please welcome to the show, Ms. Suze Orman.
SUZE ORMAN, AUTHOR: What was he thinking?
BEHAR: I don`t know. And he doesn`t want to tell -- he says it`s nobody`s business. But if you want to run for president, shouldn`t you know how to run a budget?
ORMAN: How is it possible that such a man, he continues to screw up his life? He just does. He does these things. And they`re just stupid. And it`s like, he should just stop and save all the money from running.
BEHAR: I know, but he`s power-crazy.
ORMAN: There you go. Are most men?
BEHAR: No, not all men.
ORMAN: Not all men, but a lot of men in that realm. They fail once, they want to try again. They --
BEHAR: Other powerful men give them the shot over and over again. That`s why they keep staying in the business.
ORMAN: I still want to see a woman emerge in that realm.
BEHAR: It`s not as easy for a woman.
ORMAN: It will never be as easy for a woman.
BEHAR: No, I know that. It`s a man`s world.
ORMAN: Always has been. We got to change that.
BEHAR: Well, we`re trying.
ORMAN: All right.
BEHAR: I don`t know what else to do. But we know one powerful woman besides yourself. That`s Ms. Oprah Winfrey.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: You`ve been on her show 26 times.
ORMAN: 26, 28, something like that. Quite a few times.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: Over the years.
BEHAR: And people are in mourning about her departure from ABC.
ORMAN: Yes, but she`s not.
BEHAR: She`s not?
ORMAN: And that`s what`s important to understand. People are absolutely -- I have people calling me up, what am I going to do at 4:00? Oh my God! Well, they`ll find her other places, that will be all right. But she is really happy.
BEHAR: What made her decide to do it? I mean--
ORMAN: She`s tired.
BEHAR: She`s tired?
ORMAN: It`s time for her to move on.
BEHAR: It`s a grind.
ORMAN: It`s been 25 years. Of a major show with major production and major responsibility. I`m just assuming now. But we saw her a little bit ago before all of this. And Katie (ph) said, are you sad? And she said, no, I`m happy. She was counting down the days.
BEHAR: Good for her.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I know when we did the show on -- "The View" did the show, they showed a clip in the behind the scenes. And one of her producers wanted her to bring her handbag out on the show, because we were all saying what`s in our handbags. And Oprah said I don`t really -- she`s in makeup and she goes, I don`t really think that that`s a good idea, because no one -- it`s not about me, it`s about the -- and the producer said, no, people want to see what you have in your handbag. She is like, I don`t really agree with that. I`m -- no, they really do. And then finally she said, who`s hosting this show?
ORMAN: Yes, I know.
BEHAR: And I thought, the woman is still arguing with her producers, after 25 years.
ORMAN: Yes. Do you see? Now you know why she doesn`t want to do it anymore. She says, I`m tired of arguing. Here`s what`s wonderful, though, about Oprah and her handbag. Because mainly in handbags you see money or you see checkbooks. Do you know that if you asked Oprah what her utility bills were, she would be able to tell you exactly what they are?
BEHAR: Really.
ORMAN: If you asked Oprah who gets her bank statements, she would tell you that her bank statements come to her.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: And she opens up every single one herself. People do not see her bank statements, besides her. And then you meet these other stars that don`t have anywhere close to -- and they have managers and they have CPAs and they have -- and Oprah`s opening up every one herself. I love that about her.
BEHAR: She`s your kind of girl. Because she is--
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: She`s in touch with her money.
ORMAN: That`s right.
BEHAR: Yes. A lot of people have gone broke. I mean, remember stories about Red Foxx, the old comedian, he went broke. Billy Joel got into trouble financially. People who make a lot of money in the business.
ORMAN: Do you know something, I`ve actually never told on TV, oh my God here we go, is years ago I was in a hotel in Westchester, Pennsylvania. The phone rings and it`s Marlon Brando.
BEHAR: Oh.
ORMAN: And Marlon Brando wanted me to come and help him. He had $400,000 left or so he said. He told me how he blew all of his money and could Suze Orman come and fix him. And he would tell everybody about it. And I said, sir, if you tell everybody that I fixed you, America isn`t going to like me anymore, because now I`m fixing these stars that shouldn`t need fixing, so stay away from me. But it was fascinating.
BEHAR: What did you do? You didn`t do it?
ORMAN: No. And he called maybe three times after that. And I had it on the answering machine, but eventually when you play it over and over again, it goes -- the tape gets -- so there it went.
BEHAR: Oh, I can see where he would screw up his money.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: He screwed up his kids, why not his money.
ORMAN: That`s right.
(c
BEHAR: He was a great actor.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He was a great actor, but then I was watching him in musicals. No. Marlon, you shouldn`t have done those. All right. So let`s look at some of the emotions from today`s Oprah show. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: For a quarter of a century, Oprah, you have quoted Glenda the Good Witch.
OPRAH WINFREY: Yes, I love Glenda.
CRUISE: OK, you always had the power. And that is the message that you brought into our lives.
WINFREY: You always had the power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How did they keep Cruise away from the couch?
ORMAN: You know, honestly, he wasn`t my favorite.
BEHAR: No, who was your favorite?
ORMAN: I really love -- first of all, when Michael Jordan came on that set, I thought Oprah, she just couldn`t believe it. My favorite was Stedman.
BEHAR: Oh, Stedman, the boyfriend.
ORMAN: I loved when Stedman came on. Because you knew. Because we were all saying, where`s Stedman? Where`s Stedman? And you knew when he came on, Oprah was shocked.
BEHAR: Did she cry?
ORMAN: She cried at different times. She started to cry with the Morehouse College and her scene.
BEHAR: The African school, yes.
ORMAN: The 400 men that she put through school, and them coming out. That she cried with. At the end, she started to cry. Later at the party, there was a party after the show, and I was there. And Oprah said, Suze, I`m going to have to watch this all over again. I don`t remember one thing that happened.
BEHAR: Yes. I can see that.
ORMAN: She loved Maya Angelou actually creating a poem for her. She loved that Stevie Wonder literally wrote and finished a song for her.
BEHAR: She`s very popular.
ORMAN: Yes. And I think she loved those things. But I think she loved most of all, and again I don`t know for sure what she did. This is my just projection on her. She loved her fans being there.
BEHAR: She did. You love your fans. We all love our fans.
ORMAN: She loved that.
BEHAR: Now, what about Maria Shriver? She showed up?
ORMAN: She showed up.
BEHAR: I didn`t actually see the show yet, I`m going to watch it.
ORMAN: So she came on, and she came on with Gayle. She made a comment, something about the troops.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: And when Maria Shriver said that, whoever it was that said that, the entire audience -- it is almost as if they wanted to stand up for Maria.
BEHAR: For Maria.
ORMAN: That was a highlight for everybody, that she walked on that stage.
BEHAR: Yes, but didn`t Maria say anything about Arnie?
ORMAN: No. But it wasn`t about her that night. But we just loved that she was there. That`s something -- how much do you think she`s going to get in that divorce?
BEHAR: I was just going to say, she could take him to the cleaners.
ORMAN: Yes. And they did not have a prenup.
BEHAR: What?
ORMAN: They did not have--
BEHAR: Are you kidding me?
ORMAN: I`m not kidding you. So, you know --
BEHAR: How could they not have a -- first of all, who has more money? Her Kennedy money or his Schwarzenegger money?
ORMAN: I don`t know, but rumors are he has at least $200 million.
BEHAR: He should give it to the state of California.
ORMAN: I have a feeling -- he should. But after Maria gets her fair share. I have a feeling he probably has more, because there were a lot of Shrivers, there are a lot of Kennedys, and when you keep passing money down, it goes to state taxes--
BEHAR: How far does that bootlegger money go, really? From Joseph, her grandpa.
ORMAN: It`s gone a long way, hasn`t it?
BEHAR: It`s gone a long way, but I bet they`ve run out of money at this point.
ORMAN: So -- but she loved when she walked on that stage.
BEHAR: I am woman, hear me roar. We`ll have more with Suze Orman in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the fabulous Suze Orman. I have questions for you.
ORMAN: Let`s go.
BEHAR: Someone in our group here wants to know can you be a renter forever?
ORMAN: You can be a renter forever. In fact, I think you`re going to see 60 percent of the United States will be renters over homeowners. I said it before, and it`s like I don`t think this is the time to buy. I don`t think real estate is done going down. I think that if you`re a renter, there`s nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you put your money somewhere so you have a house that your money lives in.
BEHAR: But at least if you own a house, you know that you have a house to live in.
ORMAN: Well, you tell that to people who bought a house for $700,000 in Tampa, Florida that`s now worth $150,000.
BEHAR: Well, those people probably had no business buying a house in the first place.
ORMAN: No, no--
BEHAR: Not true?
ORMAN: No, those people got affected by vogue (ph) and what happened with real estate. Even if you`re somewhere and the house went from $50,000 to $10,000 -- do you know there are houses in Florida that are $5,000 apiece in King`s Point that a few years ago were $150,000?
BEHAR: $5,000?
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: Why don`t people buy those?
ORMAN: I don`t know. I went to see them.
BEHAR: Buy it.
ORMAN: Well, I don`t want to be a renter. No, just joking. But it`s that -- I don`t want to be a landlord. I really don`t want to be --
BEHAR: No.
ORMAN: But there`s ways out there, that, I`m telling you, move to King`s Point and you`ll be fine.
BEHAR: King`s Point. OK. There`s a lot of discussion about tax increases. This is my question really. Increasing taxes on people over $1 million, would that help the deficit, to reduce the deficit?
ORMAN: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: You don`t think so.
ORMAN: Listen, I do not think the answer is raise taxes. I`d rather see them raise taxes on people with over a million dollars a year of income than people who have $250,000 a year income. That is absolutely ridiculous. But think about it, people don`t even have jobs. So, again, if you`re making more than a million, you probably -- yes, it will help a little bit, but they need to just stop spending. They need to figure out a way how to do it the good, old-fashioned way. Stop spending.
BEHAR: That would be good, but if you`re the person who needs the services, it`s hard to say stop spending.
ORMAN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: OK. That`s a philosophical question. We don`t have time for that. But what is the No. 1 thing everybody should be doing now because the economy is in poor shape right now?
ORMAN: Yes, they should be living below their means but within their needs. So, again, and I say this over and over again, stop spending as much money as you have. I know everybody`s feeling OK, you`re believing the rumors that the economy is recovering. The truth of the matter is, you have a car, it`s three years old and you can afford a new car, but you don`t really need it, don`t buy it.
BEHAR: OK. One more question. We only have 30 seconds. Should our focus be more on paying off debt and saving, or paying off debt then saving?
ORMAN: You know, it depends, but really if your debt is at a high interest rate and if you pay it off, they`re going to close down your credit card. It just depends on their situation. The best thing is to get out of credit card debt and then save as long as you know they`re not going to close down your credit card debt once you pay it off.
BEHAR: And stop buying those plasma TVs maybe.
ORMAN: And many other things that you buy.
BEHAR: And the iPads?
ORMAN: I -- everything is i, i, i, i...
BEHAR: Me, me, me.
ORMAN: I, i, i, that`s the problem with the United States of America. I, i, i.
BEHAR: Good. Thank you, Suze, very much. Her book is called "The Money Class." Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
