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Joy Behar Page

Casey Anthony Trial Shocker; Former Palin Aide Tells All; Interview With Meatloaf

Aired May 24, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOY BEHAR, HOST: Opening statements were finally delivered today in the Casey Anthony trial. She`s the young woman accused of killing her two- year-old daughter Caylee in 2008. To say the statements were dramatic and surprising is an understatement. Listen to Casey`s defense attorney, Jose Baez.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE LAWYER FOR CASEY ANTHONY: How in the world can a mother wait 30 days before ever reporting her child missing? That`s insane. It`s bizarre. Something`s just not right about that.

Well, the answer is actually relatively simple. She never was missing. Caylee Anthony died on June 16th, 2008, when she drowned in her family`s swimming pool.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Here to shed some light on this very disturbing story are Jean Casarez, correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV; Brian Russell, attorney and forensic psychologist; and Lisa Bloom, founding partner of the Bloomfirm.com and author of "Think: Straight Talk for Women to Stay Smart in a Dumbed-Down World".

Ok. Jean, let me start with you. You`re there in Florida covering the trial. Tell me more about what the defense said today about the child, Caylee`s death.

JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, it was unbelievable. It was one of the most amazing opening statements I`ve ever heard because the defense is alleging that other people have committed crimes. Number one, he said that it was a horrible accident in the swimming pool but after that he said that George Anthony found little Caylee and cradled her in his arms. And said if your mother finds out about this you`re going to go to jail for the rest of your life for neglect of a child. And so the defense is saying that he then took effort, it looks like, to help conceal what happened from anyone.

Furthermore, the meter reader Roy Kronk who found the body, he said that Roy Kronk took the body, found it and placed it someplace else. That`s desecration of a corpse. That`s an allegation of criminal conduct there.

But now we have a case of credibility. Do you believe Casey Anthony, alleging her father molested her from the age of 8 years old and that`s why she didn`t report her missing? Or do you believe George Anthony who says I`ve never done anything like that to my daughter.

BEHAR: Ok. Does this -- Lisa, does this story seem -- wouldn`t there have been evidence that Caylee drowned in the pool?

LISA BLOOM, FOUNDING PARTNER, BLOOMFIRM.COM: Well, you would think so. The problem is that her body was found so much later that I don`t know what kind of physical evidence there would be.

Look, I`m open to hearing the evidence at this trial, but I think the story is preposterous on its face because George Anthony is a former sheriff`s deputy. He would know that no one`s going to prison for the rest of their life if a child accidentally dies drowning in a pool. Unfortunately that`s a very common thing that happens. Children drown, accidents do happen. No one`s going to prison.

So the story doesn`t make any sense on its face.

BEHAR: The defense`s story --

BLOOM: Right.

BEHAR: -- you don`t buy it.

BLOOM: Right.

BEHAR: Let me ask Brian, though, that same question. How come Brian, they can`t tell if that child was in a pool? I mean the remains -- why can`t they figure that out forensically?

BRIAN RUSSELL, FORENSIC PSYCHOLOGIST: Well, we don`t know for sure yet, Joy, that they won`t be able to. For example, if the child were waterlogged when she was found deceased and then was in the trunk of Casey Anthony`s car for a while there may in fact be chlorine residue in that trunk that we haven`t heard about yet.

BEHAR: Oh. I see.

Well, this is a defense strategy of placing reasonable doubt in the jury`s heads, right? Now, Brian, could the strategy actually work?

RUSSELL: Well, it`s interesting. Because nothing Jose Baez said this morning, Joy, was inconsistent with the alternative interpretation that his client is a psychopath who is willing to throw everybody who she thinks should have helped her more but didn`t under the bus in order to spare herself punishment for her own wrong doing.

And I was struck this morning by watching her father in the courtroom, because he was so stoic during Jose Baez`s opening statement. He looked to me like a guy who was not a scared guy, not a remorseful guy; he looked to me like a resigned guy, resigned to the fact that his daughter`s a psychopath. He probably helped make her that way by over indulging her, not molesting her. And that now there was just nothing more he could do to help her.

He was just going to have to tell the truth, which was obviously completely opposite Jose Baez`s story.

BEHAR: But that`s your impression of the stoicism. Maybe somebody else`s impression is that he`s stoic because he`s psychopathic also --

RUSSELL: Sure.

BEHAR: And has in fact molested the girl. You don`t know that, Brian. You don`t know.

BRIAN: That`s -- I`m just telling you my impression. Sure, you`re absolutely right. Reasonable minds could have seen the same thing and disagree.

BLOOM: And you know what, it`s hard to be in a courtroom in a high pressure case. I`ve been in many of them and sat next to people. Generally your attorney tells you just don`t make any facial expressions. Remain calm and so you sort of put on a mask. I don`t think we should attribute a lot to that.

BEHAR: Ok. So I want to listen to another bombshell that was said in court today again, by the defense. Let`s just watch that. Listen to that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BAEZ: And it all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately. And it escalated and it escalated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Jean, we`re hearing now the defense is claiming that the girl -- Casey, the alleged killer, was sexually abused by her father and also her brother. What do you know about that? And is there any evidence in her past, did she tell this to somebody? What do you know about this part of the story?

CASAREZ: No. There`s no corroboration of that at all. But here is how the defense found out about it is because Casey wrote letters to another jail inmate and she said in those letters that her father and her brother had both sexually assaulted her. So that`s where it comes from.

And this is how the defense is trying to explain from this dysfunction why she didn`t report anything for those 31 days and never reported it. Her mother called 911.

BEHAR: But Brian, what do you make of this? What`s the defense trying to do with this abuse story? Just make it look as though there were mitigating circumstances; that she really flipped out?

RUSSELL: Well, that`s down the road. The mitigation argument comes in if she`s convicted and they`re trying to spare her the death penalty. Right now, I think what they`re trying to do is give the jury some kind of plausible psychological explanation for why a woman would not report the death or the -- or that her child was missing for a long time.

And I think that what is inconsistent with that, we have had cases before where mothers and family members have had somebody die and not be able to psychologically part with them so they`ve kept them in freezers and kept them in closets and crazy things like that.

BEHAR: Oh, God.

RUSSELL: But what we haven`t really seen is the making the body up to look as if it had been a kidnap and murder victim and going and dumping it in some remote location.

BLOOM: And that doesn`t really make any sense. I mean let`s be honest.

RUSSELL: Right.

BLOOM: Unfortunately again, millions of people are sexually abused as children, but how does that connect to your daughter is found in a swimming pool and you don`t run and call 911, in fact you hide the body and come up with all kinds of lies. How does that connect to child sexual abuse? I frankly don`t think it does.

RUSSELL: Right. It really doesn`t. It really doesn`t.

BEHAR: Well, it doesn`t have a direct logical connection, but if you`re sexually abused and molested as a child, it makes you crazy. It makes you a crazy person.

BLOOM: Yes. But I think in a very specific way. Women and Brian can correct me on this, they generally turn it inwards and become depressed and have eating disorders --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Oh, I don`t know about that.

BLOOM: Men become angry and violent but to say that you`re going to not try to protect your 2-year-old child as she`s drowned in a pool, you`re not going to call 911 and you`re going to cover up and you`re going to go partying weeks later and go out dancing.

BEHAR: It certainly sounds nutsy.

BLOOM: But you`re saying it`s possible by keeping an open mind.

BEHAR: it certainly is possible. I`m keeping an open mind on this case because I don`t really know the answer.

Now you were talking before about the stoicism of George on the stand. Let`s watch that, George Anthony.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever sexually molested your daughter Casey Anthony?

GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Have you ever committed any sexually inappropriate act with or in the presence of your daughter Casey Anthony?

ANTHONY: No, sir.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Were you present in your home when Caylee Anthony died?

ANTHONY: No. And when I heard that today, it hurt really bad.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Jean was it a surprise he denied everything the defense said?

CASAREZ: No. Not at all. It really wasn`t. And for the stoicness of George, let me explain that. The judge said because the defense didn`t want the parents in here for the trial to the courtroom. And the judge told the parents if there are any emotions, outbursts, words of any type, you will be ejected from the courtroom. So that stoicness may be so they get to stay in that courtroom for this trial.

BEHAR: It`s interesting to me. I mean I`m not a lawyer or anything, but it just interests me this girl could get the death penalty and he basically threw her under the bus with his testimony.

BLOOM: Well, it`s also his granddaughter who`s the victim here --

BEHAR: I understand that. I --

BLOOM: -- so if your daughter is accused of killing your grandchild what side do you take?

BEHAR: I would take my daughter`s side.

BLOOM: Well, you would take the side of truth, though, right? Maybe -- I mean especially if you`re a former law enforcement. He went and talked to the police, he`s testified before the grand jury, he`s been very open with what his side of the story is.

BEHAR: I mean I understand a legal mind saying that.

BLOOM: But you wouldn`t lie to protect your daughter in court.

BEHAR: I certainly would.

BLOOM: You would.

BEHAR: I certainly would.

RUSSELL: You would lie and say you committed a crime against her?

BEHAR: To save my daughter`s ass, yes, I would.

BLOOM: Now you can`t do that because you`ve said that on national television.

BEHAR: Which is not going to happen. None of this is going to ever happen to me, but I would definitely -- I mean it was interesting to see that. They`re going to give his daughter the death penalty and he in his testimony just sealed it right there.

BLOOM: Well, you know, I don`t know if he sealed it. What he said was I didn`t molest her and I wasn`t there on the day that she died --

BEHAR: And if it turns out he`s --

BLOOM: -- he could be potentially a co-conspirator of hers if her story is true.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, fine but it`s still his girl. It`s still his daughter. And whatever she did he helped make her as crazy as she is. That`s just my opinion.

BLOOM: Well, you think parents are responsible for everything? How their kids turn out?

BEHAR: When -- when it`s -- when it`s that crazy, well, who else are you going to blame? Genetics?

BLOOM: Well, she may have some serious emotional issues.

RUSSELL: Genetics in part, genetics in part and environment in part. These parents all along, I`ve been working on this story since Caylee was missing and they have always looked to me like the kind of over indulgent parents who do sometimes help somebody become very hyper-selfish, maybe hyper-sexual but none of that explains a conscious decision --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Oh, come on, Brian. You`re talking about Paris Hilton now. You`re not talking about a girl who murdered her child.

BLOOM: Yes.

BRIAN: That`s the point I`m making. None of that explains a conscious decision to harm a child for your own personal gain to be able to go out and live life the way that you want and not have the responsibilities of being a single parent.

(CROSSTALK)

BLOOM: And I also think the parents have taken a lot of blame unfairly when there really isn`t any evidence that they`ve done anything wrong. I mean they have a young adult child who`s a messed up person.

BEHAR: Yes, yes.

BLOOM: There`s no question about that. But at what point is she responsible for her own actions and we stop blaming them?

BEHAR: But let`s not put the girl in the chair yet.

BLOOM: Of course not.

BEHAR: Ok.

BLOOM: Of course we have to hear the evidence.

BEHAR: And let`s keep listening.

BLOOM: Absolutely.

BEHAR: Ok, thank you very much, everyone. We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I spent a lot of time last year talking about Sarah Palin and not exactly in a good and kind and loving way, either. It was more of a "she`s an ill-informed mean-spirited hypocrite" kind of way.

But I don`t do that anymore. Now I have other people to do it for me.

Frank Bailey spent four years as one of Sarah Palin`s aides in Alaska until their relationship went south. He`s written a scathing new tell-all book called "Blind Allegiance to Sarah Palin". Joining me now is the author Frank Bailey. Frank welcome to the show.

FRANK BAILEY, AUTHOR, "BLIND ALLEGIANCE TO SARAH PALIN": Thank you.

BEHAR: Ok now, I want to start with this part. You say that Sarah Palin hated being a governor and she looked for any excuse to get out of it. Why?

BAILEY: You know what, I think after seeing the limelight on the national stage --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BAILEY: -- it was hard for her to sort of settle back in being a -- being a governor. And really, I mean, Alaskans sensed that, too. You know, a lot of her supporters that fought like I did and fought to get her elected --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

BAILEY: -- they just felt like she didn`t really care about Alaska anymore and it was tough.

BEHAR: Well, it`s like how are you going to keep her down on the farm after she`s seen Paris type of thing?

BAILEY: Right. Right.

BEHAR: And so she had a taste of the -- the larger stage.

BAILEY: Right.

BEHAR: And also the governorship doesn`t paper the kind of money she would make by writing a book or any of that, right?

BAILEY: There was a ton of speculation that money, fame, the limelight, the power was -- was really what drew her away. And you know, a lot of folks were sad that she -- she left, but, you know, from my perspective on the inside, she almost had no choice but to leave because she developed this wave of bad blood that was following after her. And she didn`t know, like I believe a good leader should, how to rise above and really take the high road. And it was sad. She almost had no other choice --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I think it`s important for the audience to realize that you were a very, very devoted soldier to her for four years.

BAILEY: Yes.

BEHAR: That you worked with her, that you were there for her, that you believed in her. So that when you write a book like this, you`re actually writing it from the perspective of having been there and having felt betrayed in some way, I think.

BAILEY: Joy, I am a Conservative. I am -- I am a Christian. I believe in the principles that, you know, we fought for in that early campaign. I believe that she was honest and that she was moral and that she would stick to those --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: What led you to believe that?

BAILEY: -- you know the things that she would say. And honestly that early person that I saw in 2005, it was engaging, it was charismatic. You know, we rolled up sleeves and washed windows and cleaned up things. I mean it was amazing.

But over time I saw that change. I saw that erode. And there were points where, Joy, I should have spoken up and I mean the book has a lot of confessional points where I didn`t -- I never -- I never did what I should have done if I would have had a backbone at the time.

BEHAR: Ok, let me see if I can get to some of the points in the book --

(CROSSTALK)

BAILEY: Sure.

BEHAR: -- because we don`t have a ton of time and people have to read the book to get all the stuff, but you claim that she was erratic, she was neurotic and extremely vindictive. How was she vindictive? That interests me that she was vindictive.

BAILEY: You know, there`s a couple of examples in the book. I mean, you know, there is a gentleman that fought for the causes that she believed in, he fought for pro-life causes in this -- in this instance from her governor`s office, Joy.

BEHAR: Yes.

BAILEY: She asked me to dig up any kind of dirt that I could on him. Check sex offender records, criminal records.

BEHAR: Why?

BAILEY: Because the guy had called her on the carpet publicly. And you know, I think of that person as a leader, you know, Palin, I mean, with more power, the FBI, the IRS at her disposal, it`s terrifying to think of what she might do.

BEHAR: So she`s touchy.

BAILEY: She cannot handle criticism.

BEHAR: And thin-skinned.

BAILEY: She can -- as much as she likes to compare herself with the steely spine of Reagan, she is not Ronald Reagan.

BEHAR: Now, you know that Palin`s people are calling this book fiction.

BAILEY: I do. Yes.

BEHAR: So -- but -- what -- are they suing you? If they say its fiction, shouldn`t they sue you?

BAILEY: You know, honestly, when the leaked copy came out in February, I thought that Palin might come out and try to defend herself against some of the stuff in there, because, Joy, it is true. It is factual. It is hard for me to tell the truth about some of the things in this book that -- that I did that are deplorable.

BEHAR: Well, you were involved in Trooper Gate.

BAILEY: I was.

BEHAR: People have to look that up because I don`t have time to go into Trooper Gate.

BAILEY: Right.

BEHAR: But you`ve already confessed your -- your participation in Trooper Gate.

BAILEY: Right.

BEHAR: And it was a very bad thing that you did.

BAILEY: It was. It was. I pushed way over the top for Todd Palin in this case to try to carry out a family vendetta.

BEHAR: It`s interesting what you say about her relationship with Todd, basically that she doesn`t trust her own husband.

BAILEY: She told us that on numerous occasions.

BEHAR: She did.

BAILEY: She said Todd talks too much, you can`t trust him. You know, my -- Todd`s complex as Sarah. I saw Todd as a very devoted dad, devoted father, but me in my spot, Todd would push me to do things and, Frank, you`ve got to get this done, you`ve got -- and then she would come back and deny that I was ever doing the things that the Palins were telling me to do. And I just found myself in an awkward spot.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes, well you were in the middle of their relationship. That`s not pleasant.

All right. We`re going to continue this in just a minute. Don`t go away.

A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", the end of Oprah; inside the ultimate star-studded farewell to Oprah Winfrey at 11:00 p.m. Eastern and pacific on HLN.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with Frank Bailey, Sarah Palin`s former aide whose new tell-all paints an unflattering picture of the former governor.

You know, if she were to run for president, which it looks like she might be running. She does put feelers out there.

BAILEY: She certainly is making noise like she might.

BEHAR: Yes. And you`re here in this position having worked with her for four years, et cetera, and knowing her very well. What would you say to the American people to beware of if she does run?

BAILEY: What I would say specifically to the folks in my party on the right, I would say hold her accountable. Make her answer those tough questions.

I see folks even -- you know, I`m sorry to name another network but I watch, you know, folks on Fox not hold her accountable and they worship her. Blind allegiance is about worshipping a person.

BEHAR: Yes. Well, she won`t go on a lefty sort of station. She will not go on anything that`s not to the right of center, like Fox. So what are we supposed to do about that, you know? You can`t nail her, although if she were running for president I think she would have to.

But let me ask you this. You say you`re a Fox Conservative Republican?

BAILEY: Yes. Yes.

BEHAR: Ok. What if she were running against Obama? Who would you vote for?

BAILEY: I was afraid someone was going to ask me that.

BEHAR: Well, you`ve come to the right place.

BAILEY: Let`s just say that, you know, I hope I`m never in that position.

BEHAR: But if I had a gun to your head, Frank.

You know, I would have seen Obama in action for four years and while I don`t like some of the things that he`s done, I could just say this, I could never vote for Sarah Palin as president. She would be a disaster.

BEHAR: So you`d vote for president Obama? You would hold your nose and do it.

BAILEY: I may have to. That`s a tough one.

BEHAR: You look like you just went into such a depression. Frank.

BAILEY: It`s tough. It`s tough.

BEHAR: Ok. Let`s just get a couple more funny points here. The fact that she wears glasses which I`m suspicious of the glasses. Like it`s supposed to make her look smart or something but then I read that she had Lasik surgery and she still wears the glasses. What do you make of that?

BAILEY: You know, according to her mother she did have Lasik surgery and you know, a very close family friend was puzzled. Why does she try to make herself look smarter by wearing the glasses? So much of what we did was to try to brush up her image. You know, to make --

BEHAR: Do you think she`s smart in any way?

BAILEY: I do.

BEHAR: Does she read? She reads -- she said she`s a Christian. Does she read the Bible? Has she read the Constitution?

BAILEY: You know, I never saw her read the Constitution, I never saw her read the Bible, I must say.

BEHAR: Well, maybe --

BAILEY: I`m not questioning her faith, I just believe that like I did, I think she strayed from a lot of stuff that she said she believed.

BEHAR: Yes. When you say she`s vindictive, that is not a Christian - -

BAILEY: It`s not.

BEHAR: -- you know, personality trait, to be vindictive. I don`t think Jesus meant people to be vindictive.

BAILEY: I don`t believe so either. And you know again, there are a lot of owning moments in this where I talk about things that I did. You know, carrying out these deeds. You know, some of the rigging these online polls just to brush up her image and make her look good in these little news articles.

BEHAR: Oh, yes. And writing her own op-eds. I love that. Writing her own op-eds and putting them under other people`s names in the Alaska newspapers.

BAILEY: Right. The letters to the editor --

BEHAR: Isn`t that against the law?

BAILEY: No, we got away with it, unfortunately.

BEHAR: Well, thank you for writing this. I think it`s an interesting read, to say the least.

BAILEY: Thank you. Thanks for having me on.

BEHAR: And I`ll be wearing glasses soon myself to make myself look smarter.

The book is "Blind Allegiance to Sarah Palin".

We`ll be right back.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Meatloaf drops by to dish the dirt on "Celebrity Apprentice".

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: My next guest has sold over 85 million records and has appeared in such films as the "Rocky Horror Picture Show" and "Fight Club." Speaking of "Fight Club," he was on "Celebrity Apprentice" this year. His new film is called "Beautiful Boy." Please welcome to my show, Meatloaf. So, Mr. Loaf.

MEATLOAF, SINGER/ACTOR: Yes, dear, how are you.

BEHAR: Well, we go back.

MEATLOAF: We do go back. We go back to your show in the `80s. And I had the best time on that show.

BEHAR: They canceled it after one season.

MEATLOAF: I`m sorry, I didn`t mean to disturb them like that.

BEHAR: It wasn`t you. It wasn`t you. But you know, you know what they say, the show must go off. That`s a very well known --

MEATLOAF: Is it? I`ve heard it another way, but we won`t get into that.

BEHAR: Well, then maybe it`s my experience.

Now, "Celebrity Apprentice," the finale, John Rich won over Marlee. Do you think that`s fair?

MEATLOAF: You know, I have a hard time with that, because I worked with both of them. And I worked with John and I worked with Marlee. And was it fair? I don`t know. I know -- I worked with John longer, and I know what John -- John came to play. I didn`t go on there to play, I didn`t -- until I had my moment with Star and then I realized, OK, if I want to make the final four, I`ve got to play the game, and I did.

BEHAR: Everyone had a moment with Star, apparently.

MEATLOAF: Well--

BEHAR: And she seemed rather subdued on that show. I know her pretty well and she seemed rather subdued.

MEATLOAF: Well, yes, in a sense, she was subdued. But she was playing the game, and I honestly believed that she thought she had a real shot at winning.

BEHAR: Yes. Doesn`t everybody think that?

MEATLOAF: No, I didn`t.

BEHAR: You didn`t think you had a shot.

MEATLOAF: I didn`t go on to win.

BEHAR: What did you go on for?

MEATLOAF: Because I -- really -- and people are so jaded and it really upsets me. I`ve read some things, because I did say at one point in the show, I`m not -- I`m a performer. I don`t like being a celebrity. I don`t like going to the grocery store and signing--

BEHAR: You`re a rock star.

MEATLOAF: Macaroni and cheese boxes. That`s not my thing. And that actually happened. So I went on because I`m indebted to a man named Lou Adler, who put me in "The Rocky Horror" show.

BEHAR: I know him. I dated him.

MEATLOAF: You did?

BEHAR: No.

(LAUGHTER)

MEATLOAF: Well, he dated most women, so I would--

BEHAR: I`m just kidding.

MEATLOAF: So anyway, I didn`t know I was doing "Celebrity Apprentice." It was a very strange thing. I got a phone call, I was on a movie show, they said, "do you want to do "Celebrity Apprentice?" I said OK. And what I was actually saying, I`ve got to go to the set, OK, call me back and we`ll talk about it. But they took it as an I`m in, OK.

BEHAR: I see. All right.

MEATLOAF: So, anyway, but Star, I had to, you know, I had to take her out.

BEHAR: Did you? OK. But you have a temper. I watched the show.

MEATLOAF: I do have a temper. But they make you really tired, and up until that point--

BEHAR: Who made you the most tired?

MEATLOAF: Well, Gary made me where I couldn`t speak at one point because my Indian name is Never Shuts Up. And Gary got me to the point where I could not, I was literally -- my wife goes, what`s wrong with you? She`s -- I`m like this, with Gary, and I`m trying, and I`m going --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: You were in like the fetal position. But there was a two- minute rant, you cursed 24 times, I`m checking this whole thing, including six uses of the word mother(EXPLETIVE DELETED) and 16 instances of (EXPLETIVE DELETED).

MEATLOAF: Can you say that now?

BEHAR: (EXPLETIVE DELETED) or (EXPLETIVE DELETED). They`ll delete it.

MEATLOAF: Oh, OK.

BEHAR: Yes. I mean, how much of that was an act and how much is that really you?

MEATLOAF: I was really tired and he really upset me.

BEHAR: OK.

(LAUGHTER)

MEATLOAF: I was very -- I was very upset with him. Because I had been -- I`ll be honest with you. The night before, I had split up him and Star. I had split up him and Lil John. John Rich had split up him and Mark, then we had to go separate him and Richard Hatch.

BEHAR: Isn`t he in prison? Richard Hatch is in prison.

MEATLOAF: Well, he is now, but that particular night back in October, he wasn`t. And I said to John Rich the night before that argument, you`ve got to send Gary home. This is insane.

BEHAR: Do you think Gary`s crazy?

MEATLOAF: You know, I don`t think he`s crazy. I don`t think he`s crazy. I think he`s -- I think he loves attention.

BEHAR: OK. What about this crying with you? What`s with the crying? You and John Boehner always crying. You guys need to man up, OK?

MEATLOAF: Hey, now, hey. Hang on.

BEHAR: I`m kidding you.

MEATLOAF: No, but I`ll tell you what, I was that passionate about that charity.

BEHAR: Yes.

MEATLOAF: And--

BEHAR: I know, I know.

MEATLOAF: And I didn`t -- no, I didn`t want to let down Lou and Page Adler, really is what was going on. And after a -- after the next morning, I said, what are you doing? Just deal with it. And if you lose, you just put the money in yourself.

BEHAR: I understand that it was about the charity, but let`s just talk about the crying part.

MEATLOAF: But I am an emotional human being.

BEHAR: You`re so emotional. I mean, do you cry --

MEATLOAF: Oh, I cry --

BEHAR: During sex, for instance? You cry there? A lot of people do.

MEATLOAF: If it`s really good, I might.

BEHAR: If it`s really good. How about if it`s really bad? That`s when I cry.

MEATLOAF: Listen, I cry at the silliest -- I don`t blame you. You know? You just haven`t had it with me or you would never cry.

BEHAR: Oh.

(LAUGHTER)

MEATLOAF: So anyway, the -- I -- cry -- when I was watching, I didn`t watch them all. I watched a few, but I watched that one. And when the show came back on and John Rich leaned over and said in the show, "Meat, if you lose, I`ll cover you," I began to cry again, and in the bed my wife and I are watching it, we`re in bed, I start crying again. And my wife goes, what are you doing? But she catches me crying all the time. I`ll be watching like, you know, "Lost" and I`ll cry. You know, I`m watching "Lassie" and I cry.

BEHAR: I understand that. But have you considered medication? Because there is something out there for that.

MEATLOAF: Why do I need medication? It`s my emotional being.

BEHAR: I know, but isn`t it -- well, OK, I guess it`s OK to keep --

MEATLOAF: It`s perfectly fine.

BEHAR: But do you cry at a funeral, when it`s appropriate to cry? Do you cry there?

MEATLOAF: Yes, I cry on TV funerals.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Were you like that as a kid? Or is this a later in life issue?

MEATLOAF: I think I`ve always been -- but I think -- but it makes me -- I wouldn`t -- I get so wrapped into the parts that I play and the films or when I have was doing plays, or into the songs, I -- the other day I`m in the studio recording a song. And I just start crying.

BEHAR: You just start crying.

MEATLOAF: I get -- I take it internally, and it just -- it becomes part of me, and it just -- what the moment was, and I live in the moment of that moment.

BEHAR: Your wife cries like this, too?

MEATLOAF: No, my wife laughs at me.

BEHAR: She laughs at you. But you know, you have --

MEATLOAF: She goes, I can`t believe you. We`re watching TV and I`m over here crying. She goes, what are you doing?

BEHAR: Do you have kids, Meatloaf?

MEATLOAF: I have two.

BEHAR: And so, OK, you must cry when they bring a little picture to you and all that.

MEATLOAF: Well, don`t start, because I`m going to cry now.

BEHAR: You`re going to start crying now.

MEATLOAF: Because I`m going to be a grandfather in a month.

BEHAR: I`m a grandma. I just became a grandma.

MEATLOAF: Yeah, in a month.

BEHAR: It`s the greatest. Oh, my God, it`s the greatest.

MEATLOAF: It`s -- so I`m -- Pearl`s going to have a little boy, and my youngest daughter Amanda is an actress, poor thing. I mean, you know, that`s a tough gig.

BEHAR: That`s a tough road. You know, I love you. I was listening on Sirius radio the other day to, you know, do you love me, will you love me forever, you know, I`ve got to know right now!

MEATLOAF: You know, but I don`t think you want to go there. You know, when I did that with Rosie, I french-kissed her. She still has never gotten over it.

BEHAR: No. Well, she`s gay, so I don`t think she loved it.

MEATLOAF: No, but she -- I mean, she should have, for me.

BEHAR: That`s true. Yes, you just sort of overcome all gayness, I guess.

MEATLOAF: Yes.

BEHAR: Whatever. But that song is so great, it`s so great, it`s right up there with to me like these sweets, like "Judy Blue Eyes," the wonderful sweets of the --

(CROSSTALK)

MEATLOAF: Jim Steinman, Jim Steinman, who wrote that -- I gave him the front part of the story because it really was a true story. I used to date in high school the mayor -- well, not at the time, but later on became the mayor of Dallas, her name was Renee Allen (ph), and she had enormous breasts.

BEHAR: Oh.

(LAUGHTER)

MEATLOAF: And every time, you know, you`d be in the backseat of the car and every time it was always -- oh, stop right there.

BEHAR: You`ve got to stop right there.

MEATLOAF: Well, she didn`t sing the melody, but it was in a red 1963 red Ford convertible and--

BEHAR: What year is this?

MEATLOAF: This has been--

BEHAR: In the `60s.

MEATLOAF: -- 60s, yes.

BEHAR: So when the girls didn`t really go all the way so fast.

MEATLOAF: No, they didn`t -- well, depends on which girl you went out with.

BEHAR: That`s true. So this one was easy with the big breasts.

MEATLOAF: No, she wasn`t easy.

BEHAR: Well, she wouldn`t go all the way, but she`d let you touch her breasts, I bet she did that.

MEATLOAF: Everything else -- but -- yeah, a few times. Like more than once.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Nowadays, you know, that song almost wouldn`t be a hit because everybody goes all the way now.

MEATLOAF: No, but I`m going to put this in before we go any further, a movie opening called "Beautiful Boy."

BEHAR: Yes, I`m going to promote it right now.

MEATLOAF: Oh, you`re going to, OK.

BEHAR: OK. And thank you for doing my show.

MEATLOAF: No, that`s OK. I love doing your show. I love you.

BEHAR: I love you, too.

MEATLOAF: And you guys -- but I`ve got a bone to pick. I shouldn`t have been -- you guys on "The View" that time saying he should be voted off for yelling at Gary. I should not have been.

BEHAR: Oh, I didn`t say that, did I?

MEATLOAF: Thank you.

BEHAR: I don`t remember saying that.

MEATLOAF: OK, well maybe the rest of them did.

BEHAR: I don`t take it that seriously.

MEATLOAF: Good.

(LAUGHTER)

MEATLOAF: OK. "Beautiful Boy."

BEHAR: You can see Meatloaf in "Beautiful Boy" in select theaters in June. Thank you for joining us. We`ll be right back. I got to know right now! Do you love me?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, Marlee, how did it go?

MARLEE MATLIN (through translator): I think it was fantastic. I had a blast. I had so much fun with Joy. Really, really have a lot of fun with Joy. I love her. She`s real, she`s authentic, she knows what she`s doing. You go. I love you, Joy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Patti Davis was painted as the rebel daughter of President Ronald Reagan when she posed nude for "Playboy" at 42. Not for nothing, but I posed nude for an artist back when I was in college, perhaps you`ve heard of him, Leonardo Da Vinci.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: Anyway, Patti Davis is now 58 and she`s taking it all off again, this time for "More" magazine with a body she says is better than ever, and she`s with me now. Welcome to the show, Patti. How are you, Patti?

PATTI DAVIS: I`m good. Thank you for having me.

BEHAR: You know, Patti, I`m going to wait until I`m 89 and pose naked then so I`ll really scare everybody. That`s the time I`m going to do it.

DAVIS: Oh, well, that`s probably the cutoff point for all of us, I think.

BEHAR: I think so. Why did you do it this time?

DAVIS: Well, I was in a kickboxing workout, and my instructor, who`s known me for a really long time, like 20 years, said that I was in many ways in better shape now than I was 16 years ago when I posed for "Playboy." And I started thinking about it and I started thinking about how important training and working out is for me, and the fact that, you know, I would like to read something and see something of someone in their 50s showing me that aging doesn`t have to be as gloomy as sometimes we hear that it`s going to be. You know, that things don`t have to just sort of sag and bag and fall apart.

BEHAR: I see. Well --

DAVIS: If you put in -- if you put in the work, you know? And I thought, you know, it`s -- it seemed like a really good idea, and it seemed like a perfect idea for "More" magazine, which I`ve written for before. It was sort of tailor-made for them, and also it gave me an opportunity to finally write about why I did "Playboy" at 42, because no one had ever given me a chance. They just said, oh, she`s being rebellious again and all that kind of stuff.

BEHAR: I remember that period. Go ahead, finish your thought. I`m sorry.

DAVIS: Oh, no, I was going to say, so it was two things. It was sort of this is a good thing to put out there, you know, this is a good thing for all of us to put out there, because if I can do it, anybody can do it. I don`t have anything that anybody else doesn`t have. I don`t have tiger blood and Adonis DNA, or whatever, Aphrodite DNA. I`m just the same as everybody else. So if I can be in shape at this age, particularly coming from the history that I came from, which included some serious drug addiction, then anybody can do it.

BEHAR: Well, I`m a lazy slug, Patti, I don`t think I could do it, frankly.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVIS: Then you have to not be a lazy slug.

BEHAR: I mean, I`ll do the minimum of it, I don`t have any motivation to appear naked in any form at all. I have no interest of being naked anywhere. Not even in my own bed.

(LAUGHTER)

DAVIS: Oh. Oh. So you sleep fully dressed?

BEHAR: Yes, I wear a gown. A tiara sometimes if I`m really in the mood.

DAVIS: Just take your shoes off.

BEHAR: I remember when you posed when you were 42 in "Playboy" that your parents were appalled at that. How did you deal with them at the time?

DAVIS: I never had a conversation with my father about it at all. I --

BEHAR: But mommy, how about mommy?

DAVIS: Well, I`m not sure she was as appalled as people said that she was, because I`ll tell you something funny, after I did "Playboy," Nancy Sinatra did it and she was actually older than me. I think she was close to 50 when she did it. And I, having done "Playboy" and having gotten to know people there, found out that she looked really good, and I told my mother that Nancy looked really good. And my mother got on the phone with Nancy Sinatra`s mother and was telling her that her daughter looked really good in "Playboy."

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I know, but her father wasn`t the president of the United States, Patti, he was a crooner. I mean, the sort of -- you know, the image that you put out there as a rebellious daughter of a president, a conservative president. You know, you kind of knew -- you knew what you were doing. You knew that would cause a little --

DAVIS: I knew it would be interpreted that way, but as I have written -- first of all, my father was out of office and had been for a number of years, like four years. But also, as I`ve written about in this article, for me it was -- it was something I had always -- I`d seen this body builder Lisa Lyon (ph), pictures of her, nude pictures of her, black and whites in the gym when I first started training. And I thought at that time, if I`m ever proud enough of my body, if I ever can build up my musculature and look this strong and confident as she does, I would love to do some kind of nude layout.

And you know, when the opportunity presented itself, I described it in this article as, it was like my victory lap. After -- "Playboy" wouldn`t have wanted me in my 20s. And you know, I was told by one doctor in the midst of my drug addiction that I probably wasn`t even going to live to the age of 30. So for me to build up my body and be proud enough of it to be able to do that meant a lot more than the controversy that ensued.

BEHAR: You talk about your drug addiction, and you recently said I`m proof that it`s not that easy to die because I was working on it. What kind of drugs -- what kind of drugs are we talking about here?

DAVIS: When I was 15, I started taking speed pills. Because when I went away to high school, I gained a lot of weight, and people were calling me fat -- well, I was fat. That`s why they were calling me that.

And someone turned me on to diet pills, and I lost weight, but I also fell in love with them. I just fell in love with speed, and I would--

BEHAR: I see.

DAVIS: -- get street drugs. I would get, you know, other kinds of amphetamines, and then secondarily later on that sort of morphed into a cocaine addiction.

BEHAR: And you got --

DAVIS: I mean, I had -- what?

BEHAR: No, I was going to say, because you probably had more money at that point. You know? Because you -- from speed to cocaine is a financial jump, isn`t it? Not that I would know this. I can`t -- I don`t even like to take an aspirin. I mean, I really hate drugs, and even marijuana just makes me eat, so what is -- what is -- I don`t get drugs. I don`t understand them, because-- yes.

DAVIS: I don`t do anything now, but you know, I -- you know, if you are an addict, you are -- most people are addicted to one particular thing. I think it`s a matter of direction, kind of. Mine was speed and stay up and not sleep and give myself a heart attack.

BEHAR: OK, let me take a break. I know, you could give yourself a heart attack.

Let me take a break here.

DAVIS: I was working on it.

BEHAR: I know, I hear you. We`ll have more with Patti Davis in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: I`m back with Ronald Reagan`s daughter, Patti Davis.

Patti, I noticed -- I meant to ask you this last time when I saw you, why do you use Patti Davis and not Patti Reagan?

DAVIS: When I was -- no, actually when I was in my teens and my father was governor of California, I had that sort of identity crisis thing that lots of children of famous people have, and I just wanted something that felt like mine, a name that felt like mine. But I didn`t want to anger my parents, so I took my mother`s maiden name. And really, you know, my parents weren`t upset about it. But I just -- if you`re always looked at as someone else`s child and not ever for yourself, it becomes an important thing.

BEHAR: I see. You know, Republicans out there now, Sarah Palin and Michele Bachmann amongst others, they have canonized your father, you know, Saint Ronnie Reagan. You hear it all the time. What do you make of these people who say these things and who actually think that they`re like your father?

DAVIS: Sarah Palin is nothing like my father. And actually none -- neither is Michele Bachmann, but particularly Sarah Palin is not --

BEHAR: How is she different?

DAVIS: Well, let`s see. My father didn`t take a gun at every four- legged creature who ever came near him. And I think that alone would elicit his disapproval of her, her slaughter of wolves and pretty much slaughter of anything with four legs that comes by her.

BEHAR: It`s interesting, the Republican Party has basically gotten away from your father, I think. They`re a completely different party from when he was here.

DAVIS: Well, I think, you know, primarily the meanness and the back- biting is so antithetical to what he believed. And I think that that is part of the love for him that crosses political lines, is that he had a graciousness and he had a respect for other people. Whether you agreed with him or not. That is very difficult to find these days. I mean, everybody is so mean.

BEHAR: Anyway, I thank you for this interview. It`s lovely to see you.

DAVIS: Thank you.

BEHAR: OK. And you can see Patti in the June issue of "More" magazine.

OK. One more thing before we go. Obviously doomsday prophet Harold Camping was wrong when he said the world would end last week. OK, now he says it will end in October. Great. It gives us the entire summer to put together our bucket list. OK, here are the first three things on my bucket list. One, I plan on watching all the "Jersey Shore" episodes I`ve TiVoed. Two, I want to spend a kinky weekend in the Poconos with Dennis Kucinich. You heard that right. And I would like Lady Gaga to give me another foot rub. I also want to know what`s on your bucket list. So I want you to let me know, e-mail me. OK? At joybeharhln@turner.com. And if you want to send your picture, that would be great, but regular shots, OK, not nude like Patti Davis.

Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.

END