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Joy Behar Page
Casey Anthony Murder Trial; Oprah`s Final Show; Suze Orman`s Financial Advice; Interview With Barry Manilow
Aired May 25, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: The Casey Anthony trial continued today with more testimony from witnesses that seem to portray Casey as being very happy and not at all upset during the time she claimed her daughter was missing.
Here now with more about what went on in the courtroom today are Jean Casarez correspondent for "In Session" on TruTV; Casey Jordan, criminologist, attorney and contributor for "In Session"; and Linda Kenney- Baden, Casey Anthony`s former attorney and a former prosecutor. Welcome ladies to the show.
So you`ve worn both hats.
LINDA KENNEY-BADEN, FORMER LAWYER FOR CASEY ANTHONY: I have what I call split the seams, absolutely yes.
BEHAR: Yes. You have.
Let me start with Jean though because she`s on the scene. You`re at the trial. What happened today, Jean?
JEAN CASAREZ, CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Well, it`s a lot of witnesses that were boyfriends, girlfriends, roommates of Tony Lazzaro who is -- was the boyfriend of Casey Anthony and they all have said for the prosecution that Casey Anthony just seemed to have the same demeanor all the time. She never got upset, never got angry, she was always very nice and that was when they would see Caylee but also when they never saw Caylee again. After Caylee was just somehow magically gone, the demeanor stayed the same.
Prosecutor trying to show that she was happy that she lost her daughter. But of course the defense, cross-examination, every person said what a wonderful mother that Casey had been to Caylee.
BEHAR: Well -- so are the boyfriends credible, these roommates? How do they appear to be on the stand? Were they good witnesses?
CASAREZ: They seem to be very credible. Just talking about their experiences with Casey, also some of those party pictures came in today because she went to nightclubs after Caylee went missing and she participated in a hot body contest and the jury got to see some of those photos, which showed a very happy demeanor, somebody enjoying the party life.
BEHAR: Not good. Not good.
KENNEY-BADEN: No. But you know what happened, when I just came in here, there was like a water cooler crescendo moment that the Jose Baez asked the present boyfriend did she ever discuss sexual abuse with you and there was an objection by the prosecution.
BEHAR: Why?
KENNEY-BADEN: Well, I guess they want to say it`s hearsay but if we`re trying to get to the truth don`t you think you`d want to know whether she talked to Mr. Lazzaro about the sexual abuse?
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
KENNEY-BADEN: I would. Yes.
BEHAR: But now, George Anthony, he father, he denied yesterday the defense`s argument that he was involved in covering up his granddaughter`s death. Let`s watch this for a minute.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: That`s right. I never had any duct tape. I never knew of anything that happened to Caylee until -- until our lives started to unfold on July 15th, 2008, and when Caylee was found on December 11th.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Does this help or hurt the defense?
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: I think they anticipated, Jose Baez said in his opening statement, get ready for George to sit up here and deny everything. But what else could explain her behavior? Because it is so off the charts. Jose just dropped that out there.
I will agree, her behavior is, he used the words insane, bizarre, and now let me tell you why. What does this come down to is his word -- George`s word against Casey`s word. Who is more credible? Jose has already laid out a road map that George lied about this, had affairs, pretended he had a job when he didn`t really. So the attack is on.
But I think everyone agrees the only way she can really convince people is if she takes the stand herself. So that`s the big problem.
BEHAR: That would be a problem though. Remember O.J. Simpson; they didn`t put him on the stand.
JORDAN: Well, he never alleged sexual abuse.
KENNEY-BADEN: And as well for the prosecution -- remember there`s not just intentional murder here. There`s possible -- there`s manslaughter, involuntary manslaughter, not guilty. Prosecution has one theory that we`re all discussing and the defense has another theory. Maybe the jury will have something in between.
BEHAR: Well, the defense claimed yesterday that Casey was sexually abused, as we`ve been saying, by her father. So let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: It all began when Casey was 8 years old and her father came into her room and began to touch her inappropriately. And it escalated and it escalated.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Now besides -- you guys are lawyers -- besides raising reasonable doubt which is what I think they`re doing there, is there any proof he abused her? There doesn`t seem to be any corroborating evidence here.
JORDAN: None that we know of. I don`t know if Jose Baez has something up his sleeve. About the only thing I can foresee -- maybe Linda has her own opinion -- is if --
KENNEY-BADEN: I do.
JORDAN: Maybe is if Cindy comes along and has a total nervous breakdown on the stand and says, yes, I knew it. I just was in denial about it, but it was true. Casey came and told me, or something of that nature. It`s the only thing I can foresee but there`s not going to be any forensics.
BEHAR: Yes.
JORDAN: All you can do is hope to find people that she may have told earlier in her life.
KENNEY-BADEN: But that`s what abuse is about. People that you told, activities -- how people react.
BEHAR: Right. A teacher or somebody.
KENNEY-BADEN: And remember, we`re discussing all this and the prosecution is trying to say this is an intentional murderer, she`s like Osama bin laden, she kills people. We want to take her life. But now, there`s more to discuss, isn`t there.
There`s more to discuss; there`s more to the case and it`s maybe a not guilty, a manslaughter or some lesser degree.
BEHAR: But Jean, George denied abusing Casey but do you know if he knew this was coming and was part of the strategy? That`s interesting.
CASAREZ: Here`s what I can confirm with you. About six weeks ago there was a meeting, Mark Lipman the attorney for George and Cindy Anthony confirmed with me that there was a meeting in his meeting with Jose Baez, Mark Lipman, Cindy Anthony -- not George -- with several of the other defense attorneys. And Jose Baez said -- yes, the mother, Cindy Anthony -- Jose Baez said that this was what they were going to do, or confirm that it was a drowning. I don`t know his exact language.
Mark Lipman would not tell me Cindy`s reaction, since he`s his attorney but he did confirm with me that meeting happened about six weeks ago.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Now what about this idea that the child drowned in a pool and there`s no -- you know about this, no forensic evidence at all, that she had chlorine on her body, anything?
JORDAN: They did a testing of her hair, there was no chloroform in her hair.
BEHAR: Chloroform or chlorine.
JORDAN: Well, see that`s going to be a real fine distinction because the break down products you`re going to find are going to be very, very similar. So there`s no cause of death. Remember, the medical examiner can`t say a cause of death. So if you can`t say a cause of death or the prosecution has a theory, it`s not just the defense, they`re both theories.
BEHAR: Now, let me ask you something, because you`re interested on this topic, and that is that the father could have gone along with implying that he was a pedophile. And is that -- that`s to create reasonable doubt and he might have gone along with it. Tell me the psychology about that.
JORDAN: There was an hour and a half yesterday between Jose`s opening statement and the time when George got on the stand where I actually believed and entertained the idea that George was going to get on the stand and so-called fall on his sword, refuse to answer the question, take the Fifth, not confirm it but take the Fifth and say I`m not going to answer that. I`m not going to address that and leave that reasonable doubt in the jurors` minds so that they could perhaps have a not guilty finding or a lesser included charge. And would you do that to save your daughter.
BEHAR: Well, yesterday on the show I said I would if it were me to save my child. I said I would lie on the stand for it, even if it wasn`t true.
KENNEY-BADEN: You know, the defense theory is he covered up a crime because he, too, didn`t want to go to jail. He didn`t want his daughter to go inform jail, he didn`t want to go to jail. He`s involved. And he`s the type of person that`s not going to miss anything. If that`s the defense` theory and that`s what they`re putting forward.
BEHAR: Yes, I see that.
KENNEY-BADEN: And he`s a former cop, remember.
BEHAR: He is.
JORDAN: Do not forget.
BEHAR: I mean psychologically, if the sex abuse theory was true, let`s say it were true.
JORDAN: I can buy that. Yes.
BEHAR: How do you explain this party girl behavior of hers?
JORDAN: Actually, Joy, her behavior which most people would consider, and, of course, nobody has examined her, sociopathic. I`ve got to tell you I have --
BEHAR: Sociopathic, not psychopathic.
JORDAN: No, sociopathic. Again, lack of remorse, that whole kind flat line, no blip in her behavior, even if the child died of an accident or murder, no change in her behavior. So this is consistent with survivors of incest.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s almost like you`re cut off -- completely cut off.
JORDAN: It`s consistent with survivors of incest, I know this from personal experience and counseling them but it`s also consistent with sociopaths who are just born sociopathic and who were never victims of sexual abuse.
BEHAR: Is there proof you can be born sociopathic?
JORDAN: Oh, there`s many psychologists -- absolutely, the whole bad seed, sure.
BEHAR: You mean like the bad seed theory.
JORDAN: Many --
BEHAR: Really?
JORDAN: Many, many --
KENNEY-BADEN: No, I don`t buy that.
BEHAR: I don`t buy that.
KENNEY-BADEN: I don`t buy that she was ever born sociopathic. That`s not the evidence that`s coming out as. And it`s very interesting. We`re talking about something else the prosecution didn`t put forward, aren`t we?
JORDAN: And this is when this argument -- if we`re talking about it, so are the jurors at deliberation --
KENNEY-BADEN: And so is everybody at the water cooler and everyone in the hallways and everyone out there.
BEHAR: Should she take the stand, this girl?
KENNEY-BADEN: You know, I don`t know. I mean putting a defendant on the stand I view as a problem in this regard, any defendant because then the trial just comes down to them.
But it may be that in this trial it has to just come down to her. So you have to make that decision when you`re in trial. I wouldn`t make it right now if I were them, one way or another.
BEHAR: What do you think about this theory that I was thinking today that --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I don`t know how we`re going to ever find out the truth.
JORDAN: I don`t think we ever will.
BEHAR: Not exactly. It will be whatever the verdict is. That`s the truth.
JORDAN: That`s the legal truth.
BEHAR: Right.
JORDAN: But the actual truth could be very far removed.
BEHAR: Again, I was thinking of O.J. Simpson and how, you know, he was proven not guilty in that trial and everybody thought he was guilty.
JORDAN: And most people still do.
BEHAR: When he lost the civil trial, everybody said, you see, he`s going to get it now.
KENNEY-BADEN: There`s karma, right.
BEHAR: Well, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I mean what about the idea that she tried -- I heard this whole thing that she chloroformed the kid to put her to sleep so she could go out partying, and one time it just went over board and she killed the child by accident. Is that a possibility?
JORDAN: Well, anything`s possible, but why did it not come forward? The biggest plot hole we have and Jose came out of the gate yesterday, hit that jury hard, and he front loaded everything except what happened to little Caylee from that moment that she allegedly drowned in the pool and George had that little drowned girl in his arms to the woods. He --
KENNEY-BADEN: But the prosecution in all fairness didn`t tell you what happened from 7:00 a.m. in the morning when George said he had breakfast with little Caylee until 1:00 when he said he left. There are holes in both sides.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s so complicated and so -- so many holes in this case. So many things that don`t sound credible.
(CROSSTALK)
Ok, thanks very much, ladies.
JORDAN: Thank you very much.
KENNEY-BADEN: Thank you Joy.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
COSTELLO: Today, Oprah Winfrey wrapped up her historic daytime talk show after 25 years. Earlier this week I sat down with her pal Suze Orman who appeared on Oprah show a couple of dozen times. We discussed Oprah`s final show and what lies ahead for the most powerful woman in America.
But first I asked Suze what people will do without Oprah on the air?
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SUZE ORMAN, HOST, "THE SUZE ORMAN SHOW": People are absolutely, I have people calling me up, what am I going to do at 4:00? Oh, my God. Well, they`ll find her other places. That will be all right. But she is really happy.
BEHAR: What made her decide to do it? I mean what --
(CROSSTALK)
ORMAN: She`s tired.
BEHAR: She`s tired.
ORMAN: It was time for her to move on. It`s enough; 25 years of a major show, with major production and major responsibility.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: I`m just assuming now, but you know, we saw her a little bit ago, before all of this. And KT said, "Are you sad?" And she said, no. I`m happy. You know, she was counting down the days.
BEHAR: Yes, yes. Well, good for her.
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: I know when we did the show, on "The View" did the show, they showed a clip in the behind the scenes. And one of her producers wanted her to bring her handbag out on the show. Because we were all saying, what`s in our handbags? And Oprah said, well I don`t really -- she`s in makeup and she was like, well, I don`t really think that that`s a good idea. Because it`s not about me, it`s about the -- and the producer said, well no, people want to see what you have in your handbag.
And she was like, well, I don`t really agree with that. No, they really just and then finally she said, who`s hosting this show?
ORMAN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: And I thought, the woman is still arguing with her producers after 25 years.
ORMAN: Yes and -- you see? Now you know why she doesn`t want to do it anymore.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: She says I`m tired of arguing.
Here`s what`s wonderful though, about Oprah and her handbag. Because mainly in a handbag you see money or you see check books. Do you know that if you asked Oprah what her utility bills were she would be able to tell you exactly what they are?
BEHAR: Really?
ORMAN: If you asked Oprah who gets her bank statements she would tell you that her bank statements come to her.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: And she opens up every single one herself, people do not see her bank statements but besides her. And then you meet these other stars that don`t have anywhere close to and they have managers and they have CPAs --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
ORMAN: -- and they have -- and Oprah`s opening up every one herself. I love that about her.
BEHAR: Well, she`s your kind of girl because she`s --
ORMAN: Yes.
BEHAR: -- she`s in touch with her money.
ORMAN: That`s right. And --
BEHAR: And a lot of people have gone broke. I mean, remember the other stories about Redd Foxx, the old comedian, he went broke. Billy Joel got into trouble financially, people who make a lot of money in the business.
ORMAN: Do you know something I`ve actually never told on TV -- oh, my god, here we go -- is years ago I was in a hotel in Westchester, Pennsylvania.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: The phone rings and it`s Marlon Brando.
BEHAR: Oh.
ORMAN: And Marlon Brando wanted me to come and help him, he had $400,000 left or so, he said. He told me how he blew all of his money and could Suze Orman come and fix him.
ORMAN: Oh.
ORMAN: And that he would tell everybody about it. I said, sir, if it you tell everybody that I fixed you, America isn`t going to like me anymore because now I`m fixing these stars that shouldn`t need fixing, so stay away from me. But it was fascinating --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So what did you do? You didn`t -- you didn`t go?
ORMAN: No. And he called maybe three times after that --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: -- and I had it on the answering machine but eventually when you play it over and over again it goes -- the tape gets, so there it went.
BEHAR: All right, so let`s look at some of the emotions from today`s Oprah show. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TOM CRUISE, ACTOR: For a quarter of a century, Oprah, you have quoted Glinda, the good witch.
OPRAH WINFREY, HOST, "THE OPRAH WINFREY SHOW": Yes. I love Glinda.
CRUISE: Ok you always had the power. And that is the message that you brought into our lives.
WINFREY: Always had the power.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: How did they keep Cruise away from the couch?
ORMAN: You know, he -- honestly, he wasn`t my favorite.
BEHAR: No? Who was your favorite?
ORMAN: I really love -- first of all, when Michael Jordan came on that set.
BEHAR: Oh.
ORMAN: I thought Oprah, she just couldn`t believe it. My favorite was Stedman.
BEHAR: Oh, Stedman.
ORMAN: I loved when Stedman came on because you knew, because we were all saying, where`s Stedman?
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: Where`s Stedman? And you knew when he came on Oprah was shocked.
BEHAR: Did she cry?
ORMAN: She -- she cried at different times. She started to cry with the Morehouse College and her scene.
BEHAR: Oh was this the African school.
ORMAN: Yes, the 400 men that she put through school and them coming on, that she cried with. At the end she started to cry.
You know, later at the party, there was a party after the show and I was there and Oprah said, Suze, I`m going to have to watch this all over again. I don`t remember one thing that happened.
BEHAR: Yes. I can see that.
ORMAN: She loved Maya Angelou actually creating a poem for her. She loved that Stevie Wonder literally wrote and finished a song for her.
BEHAR: She`s very popular.
ORMAN: She loved her fans being there and loving her. She loved her fans.
BEHAR: She did. You love your fans, we all love our fans.
ORMAN: Yes, she loved that.
BEHAR: Now what about Maria Shriver. I heard she showed up.
ORMAN: She came on --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: -- and she came on with Gayle. And she made a comment, something of -- about the truth.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: And when Maria Shriver said that, or whoever it was that said that, the entire audience started -- it`s almost as if they wanted to stand up.
BEHAR: For Maria.
ORMAN: For Maria.
BEHAR: Did Maria say anything about Arnie?
ORMAN: No because --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No.
ORMAN: -- it wasn`t about her that night, but we just loved that she was there. And that`s something we could -- how much do you think she`s going to get in that divorce settlement?
BEHAR: She could take him to the cleaners.
ORMAN: Yes and they did not have a pre-nup.
BEHAR: What?
ORMAN: You bought -- they did not have --
BEHAR: Are you kidding me?
ORMAN: I`m not kidding you. So -- so you know -- yes.
BEHAR: How could they not have a pre-nup -- well, first of all, who has more money? Her Kennedy money or his Schwarzenegger money?
ORMAN: I don`t know but rumors are that he has at least $200 million.
BEHAR: He should give it to the state of California.
ORMAN: I have a feeling she`s -- he should.
But after Maria gets her fair share.
BEHAR: Yes.
ORMAN: I have a feeling he probably has more, because there were a lot Shrivers, there were a lot of Kennedys, and when you keep passing money down, it goes to estate tax --
BEHAR: How far does that bootlegger money go, really? From Joseph, her grandpa.
ORMAN: It`s gone a long way, hasn`t it?
BEHAR: And it`s gone a long way but I bet they`ve run out of money at this point.
ORMAN: But so, well --
BEHAR: Wow.
ORMAN: But we loved when she walked on that stage.
BEHAR: Yes. I am woman, hear me roar. We`ll have more with Suze Orman in just a minute.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
BEHAR: I`m back with the fabulous Suze Orman.
Ok. I have questions for you.
ORMAN: Let`s go.
BEHAR: Someone in our group here wants to know, can you be a renter forever?
ORMAN: You can be a renter forever. In fact I think you`re going to see 60 percent of the United States will be renters over homeowners. I`ve said it before, and it`s like I don`t think this is the time to buy. I don`t think real estate is done going down. I think that if you`re a renter there`s nothing wrong with it. Just make sure you put your money somewhere so you have a house that your money lives in.
BEHAR: At least if you own the house you know that you have a house to live in.
ORMAN: Yes, well, you tell that to people who bought a house for $700,000 in Tampa, Florida it`s now worth $150,000.
BEHAR: Well, those people probably had no business buying the house in the first place. No, not true?
ORMAN: Those people got affected by those and what happened with real estate. Even if you`re somewhere the house went from $50,000 down to $10,000. Do you know that there are houses in Florida that are $5,000 apiece? In King`s Point that a few years ago were $150,000?
BEHAR: $5,000? Why don`t people buy those?
ORMAN: I don`t know. I went to see them.
BEHAR: Buy it.
ORMAN: Well, I don`t want to be a renter. Just joking. I don`t want to be a landlord is what I really don`t want to be. But there`s ways out there that -- I`m telling you move to King`s Point and you`ll be fine.
BEHAR: King`s Point. Ok.
There`s a lot of discussion about tax increases, this is my question, really. Would be increasing taxes on people over $1 million, would that help the deficit, to reduce the deficit?
ORMAN: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: You don`t think so.
ORMAN: I do not think the answer is raise taxes. I would rather see them raise taxes on people with over $1 million a year of income than people that earn $250,000 a year. That is absolutely ridiculous.
But think about it. People don`t even have jobs. So again, if you`re making more than $1 million, yes, it will help a little bit, but they need to just stop spending. They need to figure out a way how to do it the good old-fashioned way. Stop spending.
BEHAR: Yes, well that would be good but if you`re the person who needs the services it`s hard to say stop spending.
ORMAN: Yes, yes.
BEHAR: But that`s a philosophical question. We don`t have time for that. What is the number one thing everybody should be doing now because the economy is in poor shape right now?
ORMAN: Yes, they should be living below their means, but within their needs. So again -- and I say this over and over again -- stop spending as much money as you have. I know everybody`s feeling ok, you`re believing the rumors that the economy is recovering.
The truth of the matter is you have a car, it`s three years old, and you can afford a new car, but you don`t really need it, don`t buy it.
BEHAR: Ok. One more question and we only have 30 seconds. Should our focus be more on paying off debt and saving or paying off debt, then saving?
ORMAN: Well, you know, it depends. But really, if your debt is at a high interest rate and if you pay it off, they`re going to close down your credit card, it just depends on their situation. But the best thing is to get out of credit card debt and then save as long as you know they`re not going to close down your credit card debt once you pay it off.
BEHAR: And stop buying those plasma TVs maybe.
ORMAN: And many other things that you buy.
BEHAR: And the iPads.
ORMAN: IPads -- everything is i, i, i, i.
BEHAR: Me, me, me.
ORMAN: That`s the problem with the United States of America -- i, i, i.
Ok. Thank you, Suze, very much.
ORMAN: Any time.
BEHAR: Her book is called "The Money Class".
We`ll be right back.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Barry Manilow`s new album is called "15 Minutes" and it`s about people being famous for 15 minutes, not that he`d know about that personally because he`s been famous for 35 years. Joining me now, and I love having him here is my old pal, Barry Manilow.
(APPLAUSE)
BARRY MANILOW, SINGER: An audience. Wow.
BEHAR: 35 years, Barry, you`ve been on top.
MANILOW: I`m so old. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Don`t say that. 35 years, I -- no.
BEHAR: But you`re not older than anybody who`s around at your age, you`ve just been famous for 35 years.
MANILOW: Has it really been -- it may have been 35 years. You`re right.
BEHAR: Besides the fact that you have a phenomenal talent, you have, as they say a God-given gift, what else do you really -- how else do you explain yourself?
MANILOW: I love music. I love my music. And I never really -- I think we`ve talked about this, I never started off wanting to be a performer.
BEHAR: No? What did you want to be?
MANILOW: That was not my thing. That was for crazy people. That was not my thing. I loved accompanying those people, and I loved doing arrangements for them, and I loved orchestrating and I loved writing songs. Anything in the background I was happy.
BEHAR: You didn`t want to be a performer.
MANILOW: I didn`t want to be upfront. I never thought about it. That was not my thing.
BEHAR: Right.
MANILOW: And suddenly "Mandy" came along, and I had to learn on the job how to do this, because I didn`t know what to do with my legs. I didn`t know what to do when I stood up. I didn`t know how to talk to an audience. I didn`t know how to perform. I never thought about it, you know? But the audiences seemed to like my awkwardness, and they -- they were always on my side.
BEHAR: But you had a charm about you, too. I mean, besides being musical. But so "Mandy" really thrust you into the middle of everything.
MANILOW: It did.
BEHAR: So how did you deal with that in the beginning? Because a lot of young performers have that issue now, people become famous like that.
MANILOW: And that`s what this album is about. That`s why we wrote this "15 Minutes" album. We got the idea -- I`ll tell you what kicked me off with this idea was that -- those weeks that the press was hounding Britney Spears, remember that?
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: Driving her crazy.
BEHAR: You mean when she had the baby in the car and all that?
MANILOW: No, no, no. No, when they were hounding her, they wouldn`t leave her alone, and she finally went a little nuts and shaved her head and that whole thing.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s right, I remember that.
MANILOW: But it was horrible to watch. Here`s this young, beautiful girl trying to have a career and make music. I could relate to that, and they wouldn`t leave her alone.
That`s what gave me the idea to do an album about fame, and these days what fame does to people and how do you handle it. Because when I started, when "Mandy" hit me, there was not the paparazzi following me around like that.
BEHAR: No.
MANILOW: They were interested and there was a picture here or there, but it wasn`t crazy like it is today. So I didn`t have to deal with that kind of thing. What I had to deal with was being famous and people not telling me the truth.
BEHAR: Oh. What would they tell you? What were the lies they told you?
MANILOW: Oh, you`re great, you`re great, can I have your autograph? You`re the best.
BEHAR: And there`s something wrong with that?
(LAUGHTER)
MANILOW: You know, I have this -- my deep, my dark night of the soul was in -- about four years in, and I was in Florida, and I realized that everybody around me I was paying. All my friends had kind of disappeared. And I was paying my -- I was paying my assistant and the cook and the guy that drove me and -- and I said, what happened? Where did everybody go?
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: And I had to make a decision whether I wanted that life or whether I wanted to be a guy again, you know? And I was on the road, they didn`t know where to get me, I didn`t know where to get them, and I had to make a decision. I`ll tell you, when I got back to my family and my old friends telling me, hey, what are you doing? That was the most helpful thing for me. I got -- I went back to being me.
BEHAR: That`s a lovely story, and it`s a good lesson for people out there.
MANILOW: It is. That`s my advice, if anybody cares, that, you know, because they`re going to do that to these young kids.
BEHAR: Never forget your roots.
MANILOW: Never forget your roots. Those are the people that will tell you the truth. They`re going to say, hey, what are you doing? That`s the most important people in your life.
BEHAR: Right. My roots, every three weeks I have to deal with.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But what about Lady Gaga? She was on my other show the other day, and she seems pretty grounded, this kid.
MANILOW: I love her. I love her.
BEHAR: She`s adorable. You know she has just knocked Oprah off the Forbes most -- what is it, the most powerful women in entertainment? She`s No. 1 now.
MANILOW: Good for her. Really, I think she`s great. And she`s inspiring, I love the things she says. I love where she came from and how she got famous. And she, like I am and like so many of us, she was into her art. She was into her music and didn`t care what people thought of her. She`s an original. I wish her the best.
BEHAR: Well, she comes from a place of insecurity, though, this girl.
MANILOW: I saw that, too.
BEHAR: Which I think we all do in this business.
MANILOW: But she`s so honest. She shows it to us, you know?
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s right.
MANILOW: She doesn`t care.
BEHAR: What would you say to her to try and hold on to it? In the last two years she`s really become a big star. And she`s very young. She`s only 25 years old.
MANILOW: I say, keep going, baby.
BEHAR: She writes the songs, too, like you do.
MANILOW: She does and she sings.
BEHAR: That make the whole world sing.
MANILOW: You know, and dance.
BEHAR: And dance. Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
MANILOW: But she`s also, you know, she is such an original. You know? I say, keep going, you know? I`ve got no advice except for keep going, believe in yourself and keep going.
Sure, that insecurity, we`ve all got it, we`ve all got that insecurity.
BEHAR: You know, because when we are kids -- all the people in this business seem to have been misfits in some way mostly.
MANILOW: I have a song about that, it`s called "All the Time," it`s about being a misfit. And when we put it on that album, I got more letters about that one than "I Write the Songs" that was on that same album.
BEHAR: Really?
MANILOW: That`s how many misfits there are out there.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: We have plenty of them in this room. Are you kidding me?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: but we love a misfit because that`s what we all are.
MANILOW: Especially when you`re younger.
BEHAR: But I mean, she was bullied, kids told her she wasn`t pretty, they didn`t like her nose, she said.
MANILOW: Same thing with Streisand. Same thing with so many of us.
BEHAR: Yes, when you look at the old Streisand stuff, I remember when she broke out on PM East (ph) with Mike Wallace, she was 19 years old.
MANILOW: Me too. Me too.
BEHAR: And I said, oh, my God, what an incredible talent. She did look a little bizarre, she didn`t look like everybody else, that`s all.
MANILOW: That was good.
BEHAR: But when you look back on her specials, she was beautiful.
MANILOW: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Very interesting and pretty and -- but at that time, she was so out there in her looks.
MANILOW: Well, just like Lady Gaga.
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: I think she`s got a big career ahead of her, this Lady Gaga girl. Because she`s a real talent. Have you ever heard her sing?
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: She sings great.
BEHAR: I love her special.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She`s wonderful.
MANILOW: I think she`s the real deal.
BEHAR: But other people say that she copies Madonna. What do you think about that?
MANILOW: No, no, no. Inspires. I say she`s inspired. Madonna is her hero, isn`t it?
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: She`s her hero. So you know, I say.
BEHAR: Who inspired you?
MANILOW: The songwriters inspired me, people like the Beatles, the jazz musicians, people like Bill Evans and Gerry Mulligan. And I`ll tell you, the people that inspire me these days, I think you`ll think I`m nuts, my musicians. I like the way they live their lives. I like how committed they are to their music. The guys that work for me, that play for me.
BEHAR: Yes.
MANILOW: I look around and I say, those are the guys I want to be like. Really. You don`t want this craziness. I want to do that. They are totally committed to their work and to me. I`m very grateful to them.
BEHAR: That`s nice. But you know, I was reading something about the fact that Bob Dylan`s turning -- is 70 this year. Who else, Joan Baez is turning 70, Neil Diamond, Paul Simon, Art Garfunkel are all turning 70 this year. And Paul McCartney is on his way, Barbra`s on her way. These are all great musicians. And what did they have in common? And this article in "Time" said that when they were 14 years old, that was when rock `n` roll hit the scene and they were all influenced by rock `n` roll. Maybe not Barbra so much, but the rest of these rockers. Isn`t that interesting?
MANILOW: Interesting, and they gave us that kind of music. They did. That wasn`t the kind of music that got me, although I respected it and I loved it.
BEHAR: You were more like Streisand in that way.
MANILOW: I was more in that world. I was more in the older world of songs that were written by Irving Berlin and George Gershwin, and I was still studying that and kind of arrangement by Nelson Riddle (ph) and by Don Casta (ph). Certainly I knew that the other stuff was around, but it took me a while to catch up.
BEHAR: And there was Sinatra.
MANILOW: And there was Sinatra.
BEHAR: There was Sinatra. You know, I still listen to Sinatra on Sirius Radio. I still listen to him. He`ll never get old. Like you.
MANILOW: He never makes a mistake. Every single cut is always fine. I never hear a bad --
BEHAR: Every single one now.
MANILOW: I --
BEHAR: I don`t agree.
MANILOW: I never hear one that I don`t like.
BEHAR: No, "something in the way she moves," that was a bad cut.
MANILOW: Really?
BEHAR: And something stupid that he played.
MANILOW: Well, once he started going to that other--
BEHAR: And "dooby dooby doo" (ph)?
MANILOW: Yeah -- once he started to--
(LAUGHTER)
MANILOW: Yeah. What a stinker -- what a terrible singer.
BEHAR: But everything else was great.
MANILOW: You know?
BEHAR: But everything else was brilliant.
MANILOW: You know, what I always hear, you know, "from the wee small hours of the morning"--
BEHAR: I`m a fool to want you, when he was in love with Ava Gardner, and all that geshraing (ph) that he does in the song is brilliant.
MANILOW: Brilliant. I love it too.
BEHAR: OK. We`re going to hear a lot from Barry today. We`re going to hear him play his new song, so stay right there. We`re musical today.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BARRY MANILOW SINGS "COPA CABANA")
MANILOW: You like this song?
BEHAR: I love that song, Barry.
MANILOW: You do? I saw you loving it.
BEHAR: I do, I could just groove on that, you know. And that was "Copa Cabana" for those of you who don`t recognize the tune, one of my favorites. And look at this picture of you, Barry, you can see it on the monitor.
MANILOW: I knew you were going to do that.
BEHAR: OK, before Lady Gaga, there was Barry Manilow.
MANILOW: You know, I was doing it for a laugh, you know? And the critics took it seriously.
BEHAR: Really?
MANILOW: Oh, my God. They killed me.
BEHAR: Oh, so what?
MANILOW: I was doing like Danny Kaye, I thought that`s what Danny Kaye would have done.
BEHAR: But it goes with the song.
MANILOW: It does. What am I supposed to do, wear a tuxedo?
BEHAR: No, no, well, we had a shot of -- there you are -- no, there you are in the copa (ph) thing -- we had another shot of you in a tuxedo, but we`re not showing that because you look too good in that one.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But you know, before Lady Gaga, you were very hip with the costume thing.
MANILOW: I was, but it was always for a laugh, you know. I was always having fun with it, and my audiences always knew I was doing that kind of thing.
BEHAR: Yeah, yeah. You know, I realized when we talked to each other sometimes--
MANILOW: Mind if I give us an underscore? Mind if I have--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: While I`m speaking? Sure. I always wanted a musical accompaniment to my fabulousness.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: But I was going to say that you and I were both raised in the same neighborhood in Brooklyn.
MANILOW: We were.
BEHAR: As well as Mel Brooks was raised there and Allan King. What is it about Brooklyn, and Barbra Streisand is from another part of Brooklyn, and Neil Diamond is from Brooklyn. What is it about Brooklyn?
MANILOW: It`s so awful, we wanted to get out as quickly as we could.
BEHAR: Is that what it is?
MANILOW: No, no, no. You know, what I learned was street smarts and so did you. You know? We were -- they shot us out of Brooklyn at, you know, 100 miles an hour. I was ready for my life to begin. I didn`t tiptoe out of Brooklyn. I got on the BMT and I ran.
BEHAR: You ran. As fast as you could.
MANILOW: Ran. Not away, but I ran to my life. I did.
BEHAR: But your family was not wealthy, right?
MANILOW: Oh, no. No. We had nothing.
BEHAR: We didn`t have much either. A lot of people in those days didn`t. But you know what, we don`t say we were poor, we say we were broke. Because poor gives another connotation, that you don`t have anything.
MANILOW: Listen, they worked, they worked, they did everything they could, you know? They raised me great, I`m a gentleman, you know, I was a good guy, and, you know, they knew I was musical, they didn`t know what to do with me. Grandpa took me to, you know, into Manhattan to try to get me to sing something, they stuck an accordion in my hands.
BEHAR: An accordion?
MANILOW: Yeah.
BEHAR: Couldn`t afford a piano. How would you get this in the apartment?
MANILOW: When my mother remarried this guy named Willy Murphy (ph), he changed my life. He brought with him music. Music, a stack of records that may as well have been a stack of gold. Because all I had known was "Hava Nagila" on the accordion. You know? But this guy brought with him a stack of albums of Broadway show music and classical music and jazz music, and it really opened my --
BEHAR: See, that`s the thing that makes people famous, I think, when you have an opportunity.
MANILOW: That`s right.
BEHAR: You know, Barry, I could talk to you all day, but we really want to hear you play.
MANILOW: OK.
BEHAR: Now this song is called "Bring on Tomorrow."
MANILOW: Right.
BEHAR: Take it away, Barry.
MANILOW: All right.
(BARRY MANILOW SINGS "BRING ON TOMORROW")
BEHAR: That was just wonderful, thank you.
MANILOW: Thanks, Joy.
BEHAR: And that is from Barry`s new album, "15 Minutes," and we`ll have more with Barry Manilow in just a minute.
MANILOW: Thanks.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the very talented and lovely performer Barry Manilow, who just treated us by playing a song from his new album called "15 Minutes." And the other thing about you, Barry, is I know that you write jingles, too.
MANILOW: I did.
BEHAR: I don`t think people realized that a lot of those very, very catchy little tunes that you hear out there are yours.
MANILOW: You know, that was really better than college for me. Working in the jingle industry, because I was up against some really talented writers and I had to get -- my melody had to be better or catchier than the other guy`s melody, otherwise I would lose the jingle. Like--
(singing): Whenever you`re driving, wherever you`re bound, like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.
Thirty-five years later, I got $500 for that one.
BEHAR: Really?
MANILOW: But $500 at that time, it was like--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you get residuals?
MANILOW: No, they buy you out.
BEHAR: Oh, they buy you out.
MANILOW: They do.
BEHAR: Mel Torme recorded that, I once remember--
MANILOW: Really?
BEHAR: Yeah.
MANILOW: How about this?
(singing): I am stuck on a Band-Aide and a Band-Aide`s stuck on me.
BEHAR: I love that.
MANILOW: $500.
BEHAR: McDonald`s, too? What about McDonald`s?
MANILOW: $500 again.
BEHAR: $500 for that too? All right.
MANILOW: I sang on --
(singing): You deserve a break today, so get up and get away to McDonalds.
You remember that, but we --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That`s romantic. That song is romantic.
MANILOW: That`s right.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: When you said, "at McDonald`s," I got like so romanticized.
MANILOW (singing): Get a bucket of chicken, finger-licking good, have a barrel of fun, goodbye hohum, say hello to your family, come on everyone, get Kentucky Fried Chicken, have a barrel of fun.
That`s not romantic.
BEHAR: No, no, not like McDonalds. That was really--
MANILOW: McDonald`s, that was--
BEHAR: And State Farm is very, very romantic.
MANILOW: It`s beautiful, no, that could be a real song.
BEHAR: That`s beautiful too.
MANILOW: That could be a real song.
BEHAR: Another one? Do you have another one?
MANILOW: What else did I do? I did-- I did--
BEHAR: Did you ever lose one to somebody else?
MANILOW: Oh, yes, all the time. You know why I lost one--
BEHAR: What haven`t they picked up?
MANILOW: You know why I lost one? I did one for American Airlines, and I ended it going, the melody going down. And they said, you can`t go down on an American Airlines commercial.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: That`s hilarious. All right, I only have 15 seconds. How about one more -- one for my show maybe?
MANILOW: Oh, yes?
BEHAR: Yeah.
MANILOW (singing): Joy, Joy, Joy, Joy Behar.
BEHAR: That`s great. Thank you, Barry. I love you so much! You`re the best.
Barry`s new album, "15 Minutes" is out June 14th. And if you`re in Las Vegas, get tickets. It`s the best show in Las Vegas, to see him at the Paris Hotel.
Thanks for watching. I hope you had a great time. Good night, everybody.
MANILOW: Thanks, Joy. Thank you, everyone.
(APPLAUSE)
END
