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Joy Behar Page
Casey Anthony Murder Trial; Anthony Family Drama
Aired June 03, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Dan Abrams joins Joy to analyze the first week of explosive testimony in the Casey Anthony trial. And Joy examines the relationship between Casey and her mother, to see if it sheds light on the web of lies surrounding the trial.
Then the always unpredictable Robin Williams is here.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Week two of the Casey Anthony trial has been shocking to say the least. Here with his analysis is Dan Abrams, ABC legal analyst and founder and CEO of Mediaite.
Ok. The prosecution, Dan, is showing lots of evidence of Casey`s lies and police interviews, jailhouse calls and a call to 911 operator -- listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
911 OPERATOR: Can you tell me a little about what`s going on?
CASEY ANTHONY, ACCUSED OF MURDERING DAUGHTER: My daughter has been missing for the last 31 days.
911 OPERATOR: And do you know who has her?
C. ANTHONY: I know who has her. I`ve tried to contact her. I actually received a phone call today from a number that is no longer in service. I did get to speak to my daughter for about a moment, about a minute.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. She`s lying, right?
DAN ABRAMS, ABC NEWS LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.
BEHAR: She`s lying. Tell me what you think the defense`s case has been all along.
ABRAMS: Remember, she`s lying on the 911 tape. Then she lies in an interview, again and again with the police. Then she lies to her family. They`ve got all this on tape.
BEHAR: Right.
ABRAMS: Lie after lie after lie.
BEHAR: Exactly.
ABRAMS: The defense is, that`s right. She was lying, absolutely.
BEHAR: And the good news of that is?
ABRAMS: The explanation is, they say the child actually died in the middle of June accidentally in the swimming pool. That her father, not she, then took the body, dealt with it. Why did she not talk about it for those 31 days, according to the defense? Because she had been abused by her father early in life, she learned how to lie. It became part of who she is. And that explains why she was telling all these lies for 31 days.
It creates this weird scenario whereby every lie you hear her tell in court kind of supports the defense`s long shot theory.
BEHAR: I see. That`s an interesting -- that`s interesting, though. I mean because everybody -- some people around here are complaining and everybody is piling on Casey. Nobody is really defending her at all on television or anywhere you talk.
ABRAMS: But it`s hard to defend her because even if you accept her defense, it`s still this idea when you watch her in tape after tape -- no matter what happened to her as a child --
BEHAR: Right.
ABRAMS: -- when you watch her in tape after tap pretending that she is so concerned about her child. And where is my child and all I want is to get my child back will and I wish the nanny would just give it back. I mean person after person questions her.
So even if you accept the defense, even if you feel pity for her, you still walk away thinking, this is hard to believe.
BEHAR: Well, thinking she did it.
ABRAMS: Well, look --
BEHAR: She did it --
ABRAMS: The vast majority --
BEHAR: -- and it wasn`t an accident -- that`s what people think. Yes.
ABRAMS: If you think about it, what would have been the best defense here? The best would have been it was an accident. And you know what? She doesn`t know -- she freaked out. The child died in some form of accident, whether she knows or doesn`t know exactly how it happened. She either found the child or she dropped the child or the child was in the pool or whatever it --
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: And do you know what? I didn`t know how to tell my parents. I couldn`t admit it to the police. I couldn`t admit it to myself. This is --
BEHAR: I don`t think that she is impassioned enough in her personality to pull that off.
ABRAMS: She doesn`t have to testify. But it is a much more believable --
BEHAR: But they have all those tape.
ABRAMS: That`s right. So therefore she can say, you know what -- the defense attorney can say she was going through a period. To me it puts less of a burden on them as a defense team to simply say she lost it. She didn`t know what to do and how to do it.
Rather than saying that we`re going to now adopt a burden in a sense. Not a legal burden but a practical burden to show my dad abused me. My dad buried the body. This explains why I lied. It is just much harder to accept.
BEHAR: I guess they couldn`t go with the nanny took the kid. They couldn`t do that because there was no nanny. You would need a Social Security number. You would have to have a lot of stuff.
ABRAMS: That`s been dropped. There is no nanny.
BEHAR: Why was she calling her nanny Zanny?
Somebody said it was short for Xanax.
ABRAMS: Yes, I mean look -- I can`t tell you why she picked --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Somebody wrote on the Facebook. That was an interesting question, yes.
ABRAMS: But then again, if she just said it was an accident -- because the hardest thing the prosecution is going to have to prove is cause of death. The prosecution is alleging that the child died because duct tape was put around her mouth. Remember, the body was found months later. Proving the duct tape was the cause of death would be very, very difficult.
So if the defense had just said you prosecutors have the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that this child was murdered. We say it was an accident. You prove it. Instead, they have all the stuff about the abuse and the father.
BEHAR: But the abuse -- doesn`t the abuse raise the specter of reasonable doubt? Doesn`t that say it is possible that she was abused and there are mitigating circumstances for her?
ABRAMS: Right. The problem is the only way they`re going to be able to prove that is if she takes the stand and she does it convincingly.
BEHAR: Is she going to do that. Is she going to take the stand? If you were her defense attorney would you put her on the stand?
ABRAMS: If I was her defense attorney, I would have been pursuing the defense I just suggested in which case she wouldn`t have to take the stand.
BEHAR: I see.
ABRAMS: But now that the defense has gone with this defense, I don`t see how she doesn`t take stand.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: I mean without her taking the stand, I don`t see how they prove any of what they`ve said. Now, they may change their defense by the time they get to closing arguments and say you know what, we decided we actually can`t prove it.
BEHAR: So I would say, I guess you don`t think that the strategy to say that the father abused her was a good strategy at all then.
ABRAMS: Even if it is true that her father abused her --
BEHAR: It`s possible.
ABRAMS: Right.
BEHAR: it`s her word against his.
ABRAMS: But it`s not. If she doesn`t testify, it is not her word against his. She has to testify to make it her word against his. And again, that`s why it puts them in such a tough spot --
BEHAR: Did they ask him that on the stand? Did they ask?
ABRAMS: Yes. Absolutely.
BEHAR: But they didn`t ask the brother. The brother was not asked did you --
ABRAMS: Right. But the brother is not a fundamental part of the defense here. The brother -- you know in the opening statement the defense attorney are focusing on the father. He`s the bad guy. He`s the villain. He`s the one who disposed of the body. He`s the one who`s abusing her.
The defense doesn`t want, I don`t think, to get into another relative denying it. I think the defense is in a very, very tough spot. I think they put themselves in a much tougher spot.
BEHAR: So I guess you don`t think much of Jose Baez.
ABRAMS: I don`t think the strategy that he`s been pursuing is the most effective one for the defense. I think that -- particularly because, I think that had he not pursued this strategy, he wouldn`t have to be fighting with both the parents. Think about that.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: It is now not just the state versus Casey Anthony. It is the parents. Remember, these grandparents help bring up little Caylee.
BEHAR: Yes. Everybody is against her at this point.
ABRAMS: But they weren`t before. You see --
BEHAR: I know. Well, they are now.
ABRAMS: It is very tough for them not to be.
BEHAR: What about this judge? He is no Judge Ito. He`s no pushover like Ito was.
ABRAMS: No.
BEHAR: You covered O.J., right?
ABRAMS: I did.
BEHAR: Do you see similarities in the two cases?
ABRAMS: Not really. Honestly I don`t think there will ever be another O.J. case which sort of consumes the nation the way that one. It is the same point you just brought up. Who is the constituency who is behind Casey? Yes, there are some people who think that she is innocent. Absolutely.
BEHAR: There are?
ABRAMS: Yes, sure. I mean if you go --
BEHAR: Name somebody on television.
ABRAMS: I was just saying if -- no, not on television.
BEHAR: No, not on television.
ABRAMS: But I`m saying if you go into these, the chat rooms, et cetera, you`ll find people who say, I don`t think that the -- look. Again, there is a really legitimate argument that the prosecutors can`t prove that it was murder.
BEHAR: They have no proof. They only have circumstantial evidence.
ABRAMS: That`s right. They have the smell from the car. They have physical evidence. But again, that would have been, made it kind of a tough case for prosecutors.
BEHAR: But the physical evidence is of the remains of the child which are skeletal. Right?
ABRAMS: Correct.
BEHAR: So you can`t prove from that that the child was drowned in the pool. There is no way to say that.
ABRAMS: Right. There are ways to look at cause of death even much after the fact. But prosecutors are alleging, distinguishing between drowning in the pool and being killed with duct tape might be difficult this many months after the fact. In either case, probably the cause of death would be inability to breathe. So in either case, it would be a similar type of result.
Now, they -- it depends on, without getting too graphic here -- it depends on how destroyed the remains were.
BEHAR: I think they were -- it was just bones.
ABRAMS: This is many, many months later. You don`t have organs.
BEHAR: Right. The smell in the can. Tell me about that.
ABRAMS: The smell in the car.
BEHAR: That`s in a can. They pulled it in a can.
ABRAMS: But the key --
BEHAR: They actually are able to capture the odor of death in a can.
ABRAMS: Well, look --
BEHAR: Is that what you`re telling me?
ABRAMS: No, what I`m saying is that the witnesses have testified, primarily have been talking about the way the car smelled. Their talking about the way her car smelled when --
BEHAR: Right -- which the mother detected.
ABRAMS: The mother and the father and the brother and the tow truck driver all talked about the fact that the -- but you know it does -- and again, this is an area that the defense could have used which is to say, everyone is using this term, it smelled like death. Who is an expert in the smell of -- yes. She was a nurse so she knew what death smelled like.
BEHAR: Right. And he`s a cop. He knew.
ABRAMS: And the tow truck driver said I have to deal with these things, et cetera, but --
BEHAR: So?
ABRAMS: The smell of death. I`m not an expert in this area but I would think that death can smell different in different --
BEHAR: I understand that it is very distinct. I asked somebody about that this week. And I asked them if it the same as the smell of a dead cat or a dead dog. And they said no. A human death smells distinct.
ABRAMS: Right. But I guess the point I`m making is that I think that there would have been room for attack by the defense that again I think they`ve lost the opportunity because I -- I believe these jurors are probably so focused on the abuse defense.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: That the defense has lost the opportunity to just challenge reasonable doubt.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: And say they haven`t proved their case beyond a reasonable doubt. Because the defense has come up with these theories and laid them out and adopted this additional burden.
BEHAR: This case has captured the attention of so many people.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: There was a stampede the other day. You want to watch it? Let`s show that tape. We`ll watch this.
I mean, these people are stampeding the courthouse to get -- to get seats in this trial.
ABRAMS: Well, I`ll say this is the fault of the court. They should never have a situation like this, to keep the decorum of the courtroom. They should not, even if it`s outside court.
I can tell you even at the O.J. Simpson case, which I covered every day.
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: Everyone talked about what a circus it was. And boy, you walked outside the courthouse there were people selling baseball caps with the name of the lawyers on them. They were selling watches with the little bronco chasing --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes, yes.
ABRAMS: -- O.J. on a watch, the whole thing. It was -- it was madness. But you know what? You never saw anything like that where every -- it was -- it was orderly, there was decorum. I just think it`s a bad thing for the court system --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
ABRAMS: -- to have video of people running around trying to get seats.
BEHAR: Well, O.J.`s was a circus gone awry. This is a rodeo gone awry.
ABRAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: Thanks very much Dan.
(CROSSTALK)
ABRAMS: It`s good to see you.
BEHAR: -- for the update.
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back talking about the Casey Anthony trial. And during the course of the testimony, we`ve gotten a quick glimpse into the bizarre dynamics of the Anthony family, particularly the relationship between Casey and her mother. Watch what Casey`s friend said about that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did the defendant tell you anything about her relationship with her mother during this time period?
AMY HUIZENGA, CASEY ANTHONY`S FORMER BEST FRIEND: It was strained, it was hard. Her mom was being continually agitated with her.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Did she tell you why her mother was continually agitated with her?
HUIZENGA: I remember there was a time that she told me that her mom had told that she was an unfit mother. She was extremely upset about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here now to discuss are Ashleigh Banfield, ABC News correspondent; Bethany Marshal psychoanalyst, and a marriage and family therapist; and Casey Jordan attorney, criminologist and contributor for "In Session."
Bethany, let me start with you. Now we just heard that Cindy was agitated with Casey, which doesn`t seem so abnormal, a lot of daughters you know have this with their mothers. But how many moms say --
(CROSSTALK)
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Right.
BEHAR: -- their mothers are unfit mother?
MARSHALL: That`s -- that`s a little different. Them`s fighting words. And what I think about that is that Cindy Anthony had a breakthrough moment. She realized it had crossed the line from Casey being uninterested in Caylee to Casey not wanting Caylee around.
And what I`m wondering, if -- was if the intent to commit homicide had been formed in Casey`s mind and Cindy Anthony was picking up on this and on an unconscious level was calling her out on it. And that`s why Casey Anthony was complaining to Amy. She knew that she had been had and caught by her own mother.
BEHAR: A-ha. Very interesting.
So Ashleigh, there was also a testimony of Casey being jealous of Cindy. What do you know about that?
ASHLEIGH BANFIELD, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Well, there is and I -- I thing we`ve got to be so careful about the kinds of things that are picked apart when you`re looking at a case like this. I`ve been jealous of my mom -- she looks better than I do. And she`s -- I`m not going to say her age.
You know these are the kinds of things that we do have to be very cautious about not blowing them up. And that`s the other thing when it comes to the statements that she has said about her own daughter about not being a fit mother.
Don`t forget, Amy Huizenga knew Casey for all of five months and for an entire month of it this child was missing. I can tell that you anybody`s mother would freak out if her daughter would not let her see her grandchild or tell her, her whereabouts for a month.
So sure, I`m sure she was quite crazy during that month. But -- but to assume that that`s their relationship for her lifetime is I think a little bit overreaching.
BEHAR: Oh, well, I don`t know. But do you think -- Bethany, do you think this is about jealousy or some other thing? What do you think about that?
MARSHALL: I -- I think this is much more basic and ugly than jealousy. Because the two motivators toward homicide are jealousy and envy, and I think this was envy. I think Casey Anthony was envious towards her little girl.
Envy is when somebody has something that you want and you can`t get it for yourself. What did Caylee have that Casey wanted? She had George and Cindy Anthony`s love, affection, money, attention. Remember, Casey didn`t want to get a job she just wanted to loaf around the house all day long and Cindy and George had shifted their attention from Casey towards this little girl. And that just made Casey angry and envious.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: Because she wanted all those resources --
BANFIELD: I don`t know, Cindy testified -- Cindy testified that Caylee was always upset the minute her mother Casey walked out of the house. It sounds to me like they did have a good relationship. And every other witness who has been asked that said she was a great mom and they had a special bond.
BEHAR: Well, I don`t know about that. I mean, you know --
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: She may have had a great relation --
BANFIELD: I don`t know this woman.
BEHAR: Yes, well we don`t know her. We`re hypothesizing here about this particular case, which is what we`re doing on this show tonight. So we don`t know. And Bethany is trying to put the pieces together psychologically -- Beth.
MARSHALL: Well, she may have had a great relationship with her daughter as long as she felt she possessed her, owned her, and if it appealed to a narcissistic ideal of her being a fantastic mother.
But the minute that little girl interfered with getting all those resources from Cindy and George, then, the warm turned. Remember, homicide is something that usually occurs within attachment systems. Because it`s in our most intimate attachments that the feelings get stimulated that can create homicide -- resentment, jealousy, envy. You have something I want and I`m going to take it from you. And that`s how I would understand the situation.
BEHAR: Well, something is going on because there`s a dead child here. We`ll have more on this after a short break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about Casey Anthony and her family.
Ok. I want to play part of the phone call that Casey made from jail to her mother at home. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CINDY ANTHONY: Casey?
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: Hey, sweetie.
CASEY ANTHONY: I just saw your nice little cameo on TV.
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?
CASEY ANTHONY: What do you mean which one?
CINDY ANTHONY: Which one?
CASEY ANTHONY: You don`t know what my involvement is and stuff?
CINDY ANTHONY: Casey --
CASEY ANTHONY: Mom.
CINDY ANTHONY: What?
CASEY ANTHONY: No.
CINDY ANTHONY: I don`t know what your involvement is, sweetheart. You`re not telling me where she`s at.
CASEY ANTHONY: Because I don`t (EXPLETIVE DELETED) know where she`s at. Are you kidding me?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Cindy calls her sweetie and sweetheart. And yet there is a hostility in the conversation.
Bethany, do you think she is acting nice to Casey to get information about where Caylee is? What`s going on there?
MARSHALL: You know -- look, Cindy knows that her daughter is a petri dish full of psychopathology ok. And there`s a very thin line between being judicious and being co-dependent and I think Cindy knows that if she destroys the relationship between her daughter, she destroys her tie to her granddaughter. So in my mind she`s being artful.
BEHAR: So she`s still at this point --
CASEY JORDAN, CRIMINOLOGIST: Which is the right thing.
BEHAR: -- believes the child is somewhere, right?
MARSHALL: Yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She still believes the child is alive somewhere. So she`s playing the girl to maybe get it out of her, where is this child, yes?
JORDAN: Oh, absolutely psychologically she needs to believe that Caylee is still alive. And as Bethany points out, she`s co-dependent.
I mean her daughter, Casey, is scolding her. She`s acting like a petulant 13-year-old but Cindy is letting her speak to her that way instead of saying, you`re the one in jail.
MARSHALL: I`m not so sure.
BEHAR: What do you think, Bethany?
MARSHALL: I`m not so sure she`s letting her speak that way in a very co-dependent, masochistic way. I think at this point Cindy is going to do anything to have -- to try to find her granddaughter.
Remember, up until six weeks ago, Cindy Anthony thought that there was still a Zanny the nanny. She thought this little girl was alive, so she`s doing anything possible to maneuver her daughter to get information.
I mean let`s be honest. Casey is a bully with her mom. So her mom has to be very artful in dealing with her.
JORDAN: But she didn`t become a bully during that phone call. She`s obviously been speaking to her mother this way forever. Even George said, you know, she would come over to the house she would say, I only have five minutes and she was bossing around and he would go, here we go again. It`s another George and Casey show.
I mean she has been treating her parents like this for a while. Where does that resentment and where does that anger come from?
BEHAR: Well, that`s a question for the shrink. Where does it come from?
MARSHALL: I can tell you where it comes from.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
MARSHALL: It doesn`t come from being raised in a bad home. Ok? It comes from having anti-social personality disorder, which is reckless disregard and lack of concern for the rights and safety of others; failure to pay back the debts of society; lying, conning, manipulativeness, parasitic behavior, and promiscuity. That is anti-social personality --
BEHAR: And it comes out -- it comes out of nowhere, Bethany? I mean the parents have no --
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: It`s genetic.
BEHAR: It`s genetic.
MARSHALL: The research is showing that in part, personality disorders are a mix between a person`s genetic inherited potential and their experiences with their family. It`s a big mix.
JORDAN: Experiences with their family is key because Baez is banking on you believing that it came from the sexual abuse of her father. We don`t know the truth but it could come from either. Bethany`s correct.
BEHAR: Well, stay tuned. We might find out more about this in the upcoming days. It`s a very interesting story.
Thank you very much. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: When he was growing up, Robin Williams was a self-described shy, quiet kid. But just like dabbling in lesbianism, it was just a phase.
ROBIN WILLIAMS, ACTOR: Wow.
BEHAR: The Oscar-winning actor and comedian is currently starring on Broadway in "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo," which I saw, and it`s great. You should go see it. And he`s here with me now. Robin Williams. Applause, applause. OK.
So I came to see you in the play.
WILLIAMS: Dabbling in lesbianism. I mean, what are you, sisters of Sappho, unite. Now. Dabbling in lesbianism. Are you a cunning linguist? Call this number.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You know, a lot of women do just --
WILLIAMS: Dabble.
BEHAR: They dabble.
WILLIAMS: And a lot of men do, too, but they go, hey, I didn`t perform a homosexual act. No, Elton John is a homosexual act. You just blew that guy. It`s OK. I`m dabbling. You`re dabbling. Dabbling where? I don`t want to know.
BEHAR: There`s another thing that`s going on. A bunch of lesbian mothers. They`re really married to men in the suburbs. Are cheating on their husbands with women and then going back. It`s like the opposite of what men do.
WILLIAMS: Well, welcome. Fair play.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I know.
WILLIAMS: Mary, where were you? Guess what? We both like vagina.
BEHAR: That could get them together in a way.
WILLIAMS: In a weird way, that could bring them together, going where were you?
BEHAR: Tell everybody how I got you on the show. Because you`re a big coup. Or as --
WILLIAMS: I`m glad you --
BEHAR: One time, I`ve got to tell you this. Merv Griffin was introducing Ava Gabor, and he said one of the biggest coups in the neighborhood.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: And a warm hand on her opening, ladies and gentlemen.
BEHAR: That`s a great story.
WILLIAMS: That`s like Queen Victoria. She wrote a book called "Balls I Have Held." Talking about great parties she --
BEHAR: Really?
WILLIAMS: I don`t now. Oh, I held a lovely ball the other day, and it was Albert. Oh, stop. You got me to come on the show because they had a thing after Bengal Tiger doing -- for Broadway Cares. And you were bidding for coming up on stage to take a picture with the crew -- with all of us on the cast. And you paid 600 bucks. And for that, I`ll do your show.
BEHAR: I basically bribed you.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: But for a charity.
WILLIAMS: For a charity.
BEHAR: But I really appreciate you coming. Because you don`t do a lot of TV.
WILLIAMS: No.
BEHAR: You`re a big movie star.
WILLIAMS: Oh, thank you.
BEHAR: You are. We were just going over some of your movies. You`ve done incredible movies, Robin.
WILLIAMS: Yes, there have been some interesting ones.
BEHAR: What was your fave?
WILLIAMS: I think "Dead Poets" was probably my favorite, just to get started with the idea of doing a movie that people treated as more than a movie. I once met a guy who said, I gave up my job at Sears and became a teacher because of you. I went, I hope things are going well.
BEHAR: I wonder.
WILLIAMS: yes. And then "Awakenings" and "Fisher King." And then the animation, "Aladdin," it`s always fun because it`s so much fun to do.
BEHAR: And "Popeye."
WILLIAMS: "Popeye" was great. It was just weird, we got to the end of the movie and they ran out of money. They pulled the plug and all the special effects people left. And it was a bit like Ed Wood. Shelley Duvall is in the water with an octopus with nobody to run the octopus, and she`s going, oh, help. And the octopus tentacles are going -- oh, help.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: And I`m joking, but Robert Evans (ph) says, and he`s a little bit coked up at the time, going, how do we end the movie? How do we end the movie? And I`m going, well, I could walk on the water like Jesus. He went, yes, great idea. We ended up doing it in the movie. He was like, yes, let`s do that. That would be great. Get him off me! I never did any blow. I did a little toot, but never any blow.
BEHAR: What about "Awakenings," that movie about dead people -- no, they were not dead.
WILLIAMS: They weren`t dead.
BEHAR: They were not dead, what was it?
WILLIAMS: That`s called get up.
BEHAR: They were like catatonic.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Well, they suffered from a disease called encephalitis lethargica, which was like a flu that swept through Europe and America and it rendered people -- and they thought they were catatonic. They thought they weren`t conscious, but the truth is they were -- it had attacked the lower functions, but they were actually aware, but like in almost like a dream state. Billy Connolly said they should have called the movie, "Get up, wake up, you." And the weird thing is, a lot of them went under when they were like 16, and then they -- Oliver brought them back out with this drug called l-dopamine when they were like in their 80s. But a lot of them thought they woke up when they were 16 and thought they were 16-year-old boys again, and immediately started hey, how are you? That scene wasn`t in the movie.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I don`t know if you can pixelate that.
WILLIAMS: What`s he doing now? That`s not mine, Mr. Wiener. That`s not mine.
BEHAR: I was just thinking of him, too. Isn`t that funny? I free associated right to him.
WILLIAMS: It`s easy to do. Even Freud`s going, take anything off the top shelf.
BEHAR: You know what he did, right?
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes. Supposedly he said someone hacked his Twitter account and they got a picture of him in tighty whities, but he`s going -- I don`t know -- he`s basically saying, was it really well endowed? No, it`s not mine.
BEHAR: Well, you know, Whoopi today was talking about it, and she was saying you could Photoshop anything. He could have been in trousers and they just put him in that -- do you think that could have happened?
WILLIAMS: Photoshop? Photoshop? Then why not put a smiley face on it? Oh, look. It`s little rumple foreskin. What are you doing?
BEHAR: But they basically could have done that. They could have, you know--
WILLIAMS: They could have done 100 different things. They could have actually had (inaudible) or made it slightly -- two of them. Which would be like, wow.
BEHAR: But the thing about him is that he was tweeting all these young girls. Maybe that`s a mistake.
WILLIAMS: Just a touch.
BEHAR: I mean, you are a congressman.
WILLIAMS: There`s nothing that goes unnoticed in this age. You are a congressman. And the idea of like, don`t do that. I only tweeted once. I tweeted "I`m on the road." And I went, that`s it, I`m done.
BEHAR: That`s it.
WILLIAMS: Because the next tweet is "I know, I`m right behind you." Twitter leads to stalkers.
BEHAR: Exactly.
WILLIAMS: But there`s people who are masters of -- people who are masters of tweets, like Steve Martin, Albert Brooks, Garry Shandling. They know. And it`s great short form comedy.
BEHAR: Yes. That`s true.
WILLIAMS: But you can`t imagine Shakespeare tweeting to be or not to be, smiley face.
BEHAR: No. But speaking of that, I took a picture with you one time that if that got out -- look at this picture.
WILLIAMS: What is the picture?
BEHAR: Look at that. Can you see it? That`s us on the left.
WILLIAMS: Wow. Yes.
BEHAR: And I forgot that I did that. I molested you at Comic Relief.
WILLIAMS: That`s why I`m here.
BEHAR: So it wasn`t just Broadway Cares.
WILLIAMS: And that was your hand, right?
BEHAR: Yes, it was.
WILLIAMS: Hey, Manuel, are we having a good day? Let`s do this again. Are we going to tweet? Why, I only have one hand left. Maybe not.
That was quite a lot of typing in the early days online on the porn sites was so bad because people could only use one hand. What are you doing?
BEHAR: Let`s watch a little piece of your stand-up.
WILLIAMS: Oh, cool.
BEHAR: OK?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: And you Twitter. Twitter. Or tweeting. It`s not the root word. It`s not twit. It`s tweet. OK, cool. Is it rude to Twitter during sex, to go omg, omgwtf, zzz, is that rude? Is there something called clittering where you play with a little button on your Blackberry? What are you doing? I`m clittering.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So you don`t tweet anymore?
WILLIAMS: No. I mean, I think there should be a thing of either like a little application on your phone that if you try to take a picture of your genitals, a little cock blocker app, the phone goes no. Like a moral GPS. They should have a moral GPS like a moral compass, a moral GPS that will go "up ahead, a girl the same age as your daughter. Reroute."
BEHAR: Very good.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Moving away now. Do not talk to her. Warning. Warning.
BEHAR: That would be good.
WILLIAMS: Moral GPS. That would be like something that just goes do not do that now. This will make the headlines bad for you.
BEHAR: Now, what do you think about Sarah Palin and Donald Trump had a pizza dinner the other night?
WILLIAMS: That`s a Democratic wet dream.
BEHAR: It is.
WILLIAMS: That`s like do it, go for it. My lawyer had a great line about Donald Trump. He said he was a guy who woke up on third and thought he hit a triple.
BEHAR: They said that about George Bush too.
WILLIAMS: Yeah, that whole thing--
BEHAR: The lawyer didn`t make that up, Robin.
WILLIAMS: No. Oh, no. It`s like the line that was out there about everybody. And it was like that with her when she wrote a book. I went looking for it and I couldn`t find it. I looked in fantasy, I looked in fiction. I wasn`t--
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But here is the thing about her. Because she went into New York City and she was wearing a Jewish star. Look at this. This is a picture of her with a Jewish star on.
WILLIAMS: That`s one of the signs of the apocalypse.
BEHAR: But you know what? If you want to be Jewish in New York, you have to do this outfit. See that? The Hasidic picture? There it is.
WILLIAMS: It`s a new version of Yentl called rentl. She has payot`s envy.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: How about this one? She wants to go to the Muslim community. She should go with a chador (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: Burka girls gone wild. Where are you going, to the Gaza strip club? What are you doing?
BEHAR: And then we have if she goes to the "Jersey Shore."
WILLIAMS: This is there. Sneaky. That`s another character. What`s her -- hey, look, it`s sneaky. I can`t believe she came here. More poof. More poof.
BEHAR: Did you see what happened to Snooki? She was in Florence and she banged into a police car and they had to take her in.
WILLIAMS: She banged into a --
BEHAR: Yes. And the cops are in the hospital. She`s a menace to society.
WILLIAMS: Her hair hurt them. They go -- [ speaking foreign language ] -- she broke the window on the car. The hair went into the car, broke the window. Look, it`s the soundtrack from the "Wizard of Oz." What is she -- who`s in the hospital, the cops?
BEHAR: The cops were in the hospital.
WILLIAMS: She ran into a cop car?
BEHAR: Yes. They were actually escorting her and she ran into their car.
WILLIAMS: She ran into their car?
BEHAR: Yes. She`s a piece of work.
WILLIAMS: Well, she deployed the air bags already. Good night. Thank you.
BEHAR: Now, another thing that`s happening is I don`t know if you know about this, Glenn Beck is going off Fox. Did you know that?
WILLIAMS: No.
BEHAR: Yes, he`s gone. Do you like him? Do you ever watch him?
WILLIAMS: I never saw him. I just saw there used to be this guy, Reverend Gene Scott, which used to do wild stuff, but he was just -- he would just sit there with a little special coffee cup and just be -- he would just -- I`m going to do this again. I`m going to diagram the Bible. Basically as if the Bible were written by people on mushrooms. And he would go, I`m going to read this passage of the Bible again and again until I get $20,000.
BEHAR: Really?
WILLIAMS: Yeah. But when I watch Glenn Beck, he would just go off on things. You want to have that "Face in the Crowd" moment, which I guess he finally had where he just said and said stuff that people went, OK, that`s a little too crazy for us.
BEHAR: Even Roger Ailes said it was too much.
WILLIAMS: Yes. At that point, you`re going, you know, even old Germans are going, you must relax.
BEHAR: We have a lot more to talk about.
WILLIAMS: It`s time for us to play (inaudible).
BEHAR: Robin is staying for two more segments.
WILLIAMS: Two more segments!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What do I do? Do I just stand here like an object?
WILLIAMS: No. You do an eclectic celebration of a dance. You do Fosse, Fosse, Fosse. You do Martha Graham, Martha Graham, Martha Graham. Or Twyla, Twyla, Twyla. Or Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd, Michael Kidd. Or Madonna, Madonna, Madonna. But you keep it all inside.
All right. Just work on that. I`ll be right back. It`s looking wonderful, though.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s the brilliant Robin Williams in "Birdcage," one of my favorites.
WILLIAMS: (inaudible), Robert Wilson? You`re one of the people who say yes, you`re Robert Wilson!
BEHAR: I`ll never forget. What`s his name?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: So what about Lady Gaga? Do you do Lady Gaga?
WILLIAMS: I finally was watching the Monster concert the other night. The amazing thing is she`s a great musician and has a great voice. I was just saying, you don`t need the solar hat. But she`s a great performer. She`s just in that phase of now all this stuff. And eventually you`re just going to just see her playing the piano and just blowing the doors off the place.
BEHAR: But she has a style.
WILLIAMS: Oh, totally.
BEHAR: Is it like Madonna? She gets accused of being a ripoff here and there.
WILLIAMS: It`s just -- I mean, if the people are ready for, I guess - - it`s big time. I mean, she does stuff -- she wore an outfit that I went, wow, you`re wearing an entire vagina. That is -- she came on stage --
BEHAR: What about the meat dress?
WILLIAMS: I just saw the one that she wore on Saturday Night Live, which looked like -- even dead Egyptians went, it`s too much.
BEHAR: Mubarak.
WILLIAMS: You don`t need this. You`re reflecting. The light is reflecting. It`s crazy.
BEHAR: What was I going to say to you? She -- I had interviewed her on the other show I do. And she was saying that she was bullied as a child.
WILLIAMS: You can see that.
BEHAR: Were you?
WILLIAMS: Yes, I was picked upon briefly for -- like sixth grade wasn`t good. I was called leprechaun, which was kind of like -- it`s great if you have a pot of gold, but if you don`t, screwed.
BEHAR: Why were you called leprechaun?
WILLIAMS: I was little.
BEHAR: Oh, because you were little.
WILLIAMS: Little.
BEHAR: And hairy.
WILLIAMS: I wasn`t hairy back then.
BEHAR: You weren`t that hairy then?
WILLIAMS: Then I`d be called rhesus. What do you mean? Ah, ah, ah - - I was actually hit on by Coco the gorilla.
BEHAR: I can see that.
WILLIAMS: She tried to take me in the back room, and the trainer said, if she takes you back there, I can`t help you. And she`s like -- yes. She wanted to take me in the back there. I was like, she was going, mm, nice, I like him.
BEHAR: You`re so funny all the time. Not all the time.
WILLIAMS: Not all the time, no.
BEHAR: Not in bed with a woman, right?
WILLIAMS: No. Is this thing on? You were great, but did you see the first show? You know -- ah, ah. Come on, play with it, talk to it.
BEHAR: You`re really --
WILLIAMS: I`m going to have an orgasm as Chris Walken. I`m arriving now. Was it good for me? Yes.
BEHAR: You know, it was really interesting to see you on stage. That was the first play you`ve ever done?
WILLIAMS: No. I did "Waiting for Godot" at Lincoln Center, which was great.
BEHAR: Really? Was that a commercial success?
WILLIAMS: As always. It was a musical. We called it "Waitin`." No, it was with F. Murray Abraham, Steve Martin, Bill Irwin (ph). It was a pretty crazy production. It`s written to be like two comics in purgatory.
BEHAR: I saw it.
WILLIAMS: You saw the one--
BEHAR: I felt like I was in purgatory.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No, I`m kidding. It was good. I liked it.
WILLIAMS: But it was all -- it`s all -- it`s meant to be like -- it`s like Laurel and Hardy in hell.
BEHAR: Yes.
WILLIAMS: What do we do now? Don`t go. And another pile of dung.
BEHAR: You kept calling him Godot. Now I remember the play. "Waiting for Godot." Why are you --
WILLIAMS: Because that`s how I think the pronunciation that Beckett wanted.
BEHAR: Oh.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: Everybody else says Godot.
WILLIAMS: Some.
(LAUGHTER)
WILLIAMS: The French don`t. They say Godot. The Germans, Godot.
BEHAR: What do you think of that case in France with that Strauss- Kahn guy?
WILLIAMS: I think it`s just pretty -- I think--
BEHAR: Why do they like maids? Schwarzenegger likes maids. Strauss- Kahn attacked a maid. This other, this other bargain (ph), this other Egyptian attacked a maid.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: At the Pierre hotel.
WILLIAMS: I think it`s that weird entitlement. I think it`s almost medieval in a way. They think of you as a servant. You`re mine. You know, it`s--
BEHAR: You`re mine.
WILLIAMS: I mean, that`s insane, but you think -- someone said that he was also taking a Cialis, so he thought hey -- and someone -- or that he interpreted that she was like a call girl doing night maid -- call girls don`t bring mints. Hello. No, you know you want me. You want me in the worst way, which is in person. You want a hairy old, very wealthy French man, huh? I control the euro. I don`t care. I`ve got to go home.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WILLIAMS: It`s nuts.
BEHAR: It`s nuts.
WILLIAMS: But with Arnold, you know, with Arnold, you know, first of all, when he married Maria, he was trying to create the uber-Kennedy.
BEHAR: That`s right.
WILLIAMS: And for years, I thought he was sucking the Kennedy out of her. Slowly but surely. I`m finally becoming a Kennedy by assimilation. And she just got thinner and thinner and thinner.
BEHAR: Yes. And what about ten years, he was sleeping with this housekeeper, in their bed for ten years.
WILLIAMS: Ooh.
BEHAR: And the housekeeper, listen to this, would dress up in Maria`s clothes and put on her makeup and her jewelry and everything.
WILLIAMS: Even Freud at that point goes, new dealer. Even a therapist goes, here`s your money back. I`ve got to go.
BEHAR: That really is a dealbreaker, right?
WILLIAMS: Ooh. Big-time.
BEHAR: And what`s up with Schwarzenegger, that he thought that was OK?
WILLIAMS: He was like, I`d get away with it as long as I could right now. And my uncle used to be -- he wasn`t in the SS. He was just in catering. Kurt Waldheimer`s (ph), Waldheimer`s (ph) is you forget everything before 1945. I was in the forest, hiding with squirrels. I was a nutsy (ph). What are you saying? I never did steroids, I was just on severe vitamins. I could open a door with my nipple. What are you doing now to me? Why do people think that I wouldn`t do this now? The weird thing. Look at all my history.
BEHAR: We`ll have more with Robin in a moment.
WILLIAMS: Be right back.
BEHAR: Don`t leave.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Don`t leave.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WILLIAMS: This, you`ve got an alcoholic problem, you do, and the worst part is, there are times when you drink so much, you don`t remember what you`ve done the night before. And you get those little phone calls where people let you know. What? Yes? Really? I took a dump in your tuba?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m back with the crazy and funny Robin Williams. This is your dramatic Broadway debut, even though "Godot," "Waiting for Godot"--
WILLIAMS: Godot or Godot.
BEHAR: That was sort of dramatic, but it was funny.
WILLIAMS: It was under Broadway, it was near Broadway.
BEHAR: Oh, but this is your first time on Broadway, the "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo."
WILLIAMS: Yes.
BEHAR: And you play a tiger.
WILLIAMS: Yes. I play basically a tiger and then become the spirit of the tiger after that. And it`s pretty crazy, I get to kind of evolve quickly over the period of the play. It`s pretty wild. The play ends very kind of dramatically and very kind of quiet and intense. The thing that sometimes you get that moment where the end of the play I`m saying rules of the hunt, don`t move, don`t make a sound. And at that point, a cell phone goes off, and it`s the soundtrack to "Deliverance." Everything in my body just wants to go, it`s going up your ass, you`re going to squeal like a fax machine. And you`re going no, you`re in a play, can`t do it, can`t say anything.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The audience when they talk, or the candy (ph) or--
WILLIAMS: No, you can`t really. I mean, most of -- sometimes you look out and you see people -- people take pictures sometimes in the middle -- even though they say do not do this, ladies and gentlemen, but still people go, (inaudible). But that`s the weird thing, you`ve just got to stay with the play, because the play, you know, if you break out of it, it ruins it for people.
BEHAR: Do you get any -- we have to do this now, I`m sorry to have to break into this conversation, but I`m going to be doing something for the--
WILLIAMS: ASPCA.
BEHAR: ASPCA, but you can see Robin Williams in the play "Bengal Tiger at the Baghdad Zoo" on Broadway right now. So go and see it.
Thank you so much, Robin.
WILLIAMS: Thank you, baby.
BEHAR: He`s wonderful. And thank you all for watching. I hope you had fun tonight. Good night, everybody.
WILLIAMS: Pick up a cat on the way home, ladies and gentlemen. Pick up a cat.
BEHAR: Pick up a cat.
END
