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Joy Behar Page
Analysis of Casey Anthony Murder Trial; Interview With Dr. Oz
Aired June 07, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, jurors hear more forensic evidence in the Casey Anthony trial, but everyone is talking about the man who holds Casey`s fate, her attorney Jose Baez. Joy wants to know if he`s botching the case or if he`s purposely shifting the focus off Casey.
Then Anthony Weiner comes clean about lewd photos he sent to women over the Internet.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ANTHONY WEINER (D), NEW YORK: I apologize to the many other members of the media that I misled. I apologize first and foremost to my wife and to my family.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: With more sordid details trickling in will he have the support of his constituents, or more importantly, his wife?
Plus Dr. Oz tells Joy if we should cut down on cell phone use and answers some of your pressing medical questions.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Chloroform and cadaver dogs were the focus of testimony today in the Casey Anthony murder trial, but was it enough to prove murder? That`s what we want to know.
Joining me now with more on what happened in court today are Lawrence Kobilinsky, forensic scientist and professor at John Jay college of criminal justice; Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV, who was in court today` plus Marcia Clark, former prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial and the author of "Guilt By Association".
Ok, the day started with more chloroform talk. A scientist yesterday said he was shocked by the level of chloroform found in the car sample. But today, listen to what the FBI forensic chemist said. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOSE BAEZ, DEFENSE ATTORNEY FOR CASEY ANTHONY: It wasn`t overwhelming amount of chloroform, was it?
DR. MICHAEL RICKENBACH, FBI FORENSIC CHEMIST: On the specimens?
BAEZ: Yes.
RICKENBACH: It was significantly less than the -- sorry, not the internal standard, the positive control that I analyzed.
BAEZ: And it wasn`t the most chloroform you`ve ever seen in 20 years, was it?
RICKENBACH: It was not the most chloroform I`ve seen in 20 years, no.
BAEZ: And it`s not what you would call shockingly high levels of chloroform, would it?
RICKENBACH: No, it`s not.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So yesterday it was the most chloroform they ever saw and today it`s not the most. Now, does this -- how do you explain the conflicting testimony, and let me just say, for full disclosure, that you worked for the defense team.
LAWRENCE KOBILINSKY, FORENSIC SCIENTIST: Yes.
First of all, the expert here is very conservative. The FBI agents are trained to be conservative and never say more than what their experimentation shows. So I think we have to also remember that he was looking at a different specimen than Dr. Vass. He was looking at the tire cover as opposed to the carpeting.
But that said, I think that you have here a scientific expression of the presence of chloroform. The quantitation (ph) is really critical and I think that`s where the difference lies.
Dr. Vass is talking many times more level of chloroform than this agent, Rickenbach.
BEHAR: Yes. But we`re going to talk about how many places you can find chloroform in just a minute. But Ryan was this a big victory for the defense, do you think?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": It was a small victory for the defense. And here`s why. Dr. Arpad Vass was not good for the defense, and a lot of times -- Dr. K pointed out a very good point about how it was different samples. But the jury sometimes doesn`t understand that. What they sometimes remember are the words shockingly high or I jumped back when I smell decomposition.
But here he knocked down those terms a little bit. So it did help, but this expert still said that chloroform still traveled with some of the evidence that was transported and for him that was kind of strange because he said chloroform kind of dissipates in the air over time, but this chloroform did not. It still builds in the implication that there was more, that there was sort of a substantial amount of chloroform in that trunk.
BEHAR: Ok, so, that`s interesting.
KOBILINSKY: Well, you know, chloroform can be produced innocently, for example, household items such as bleach and --
BEHAR: Well, let me play something, so that you don`t have to even tell it. Listen to another part of the forensic chemist`s testimony.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BAEZ: You can find chloroform in any number of household items, correct?
RICKENBACH: It has been detected in household cleaning agents and other items, yes.
BAEZ: You can even find chloroform in water, right? Drinking water?
RICKENBACH: It depends on the drinking water, yes.
BAEZ: And you can also find it in chlorine from a swimming pool, can you not?
RICKENBACH: I have no firsthand knowledge, I`ve never analyzed the chlorinated products like water from swimming pools for chloroform, so I don`t know the answer to that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Do you know the answer to that? Can you find chloroform in chlorine?
KOBILINSKY: You can find chloroform forming in a swimming pool. There are published reports of that and it`s not a surprise. The chemistry is there. Organic matter, skin, for example, in contact with chlorine will form chloroform.
BEHAR: So this can all be disputed.
KOBILINSKY: Everything can be disputed.
BEHAR: One side says this, the other side says that. So DNA evidence and everything.
Marcia, you experienced this, I hate to keep bringing the O.J. Simpson trial up but I remember watching it and all the DNA evidence was basically thrown out because they said it was tampered with, et cetera. So how -- how powerful is this DNA evidence, then? And can we ever rely on it?
MARCIA CLARK, PROSECUTOR ON O.J. SIMPSON TRIAL: Well, this is not --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Go ahead.
CLARK: Well, DNA evidence can be relied upon but it`s not crucial in this case in particular because you`re talking about chloroform in the trunk as an agency of homicide in order to prove the baby was murdered and not killed accidentally.
Now, you know, had the defense been a little bit more loose about the fact that accident can explain this and not exactly attribute it to a drowning where the father finds -- I mean the grandfather finds the baby, they might have had a little more wiggle room here to say, chloroform was administered and the baby was killed accidentally, or the baby drowned accidentally. They could have probably wormed their way through the testimony that way.
But as it stands, they`re stuck with the drowning. Finding the amount of chloroform that has been described even by the FBI witness cannot be explained by normal causes based on what I`ve heard so far. It sounds like it`s more concentrated than you would expect to find for innocent reasons.
However, does that completely get them all the way home in terms of the prosecution scoring a home run? Not yet. Not yet. I think they`re going to have to finish up with the duct tape. There`s going to have to be more.
BEHAR: Ok. What do you say to all that?
KOBILINSKY: I think Marcia, you need a quantitative analysis. You need to know exactly what we`re talking about here. Yes, it`s volatile, but when you say it can`t be formed by innocent means, I`m not so sure of that. I`m not convinced at all.
BEHAR: You worked for the defense team Larry. Tell us what you do for them exactly.
KOBILINSKY: Yes. Well, I advice Jose Baez about the science. I`m an advocate for science, and my discussions with Jose were very straight. I would call it the way I see it. He allows me with free access to all the media.
I`m not a spokesperson for the defense, but I do -- I`m an advocate of science and if I see science that`s unreliable I`m going to talk about it. And I do see a lot of that, lack of reliability in what we have heard thus far.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s do this part. A deputy from the k-9 unit was on the stand today and his cadaver dog had a hit in the playhouse of Casey`s backyard back in 2008. So this is in a different spot. How important is his testimony, Ryan?
SMITH: It`s incredibly important, and you know what really stood out about it, he had a hit in the play house, he had a hit in the trunk of the car -- this is the dog -- but not in the pool. Now, remember, the defense is saying here that Caylee died by drowning, by accident, but there was no hit in that particular area.
Also here`s the thing. Dogs don`t lie. They`re trained to do a certain job. And what the prosecution is trying to argue here is this dog was trained to find decomposition, he did just that, and that`s why it should be relied upon.
Now there`s a lot of wiggle room in that because the defense is going to still poke holes, say there might be hander bias or other things that might have caused that smell to trigger. But still, good evidence for the prosecution.
BEHAR: Well what about it? Are dogs really that accurate?
KOBILINSKY: Well, first of all, dogs don`t lie because dogs don`t testify and it`s the handler that testifies. You really need to look at the history of the training of this dog. Are there instances where it gives false alerts? Positive or negative? I mean we`re not talking about a scientific instrument where you can have positive and negative controls.
BEHAR: Right.
KOBILINSKY: And again, it`s the validity of the call. I can synthesize chemicals, put it out on an object and let that dog search. That dog`s going to alert to those chemicals. No decomposition but certain chemicals will trigger a reaction in the dog.
BEHAR: But how will the jury act to the dog`s testimony? What are they going to do with that?
KOBILINSKY: Jurors are not scientists. They`re going to look at the credibility actually. And they`re going to look at the expert and decide whether this person is credible or not. They`re not going to understand the formation of chloroform or anything else for that matter.
BEHAR: It`s also odd because I mean you could have dog lovers on the jury who believe the dog. I mean there`s so many different crazy things that could happen.
KOBILINSKY: It`s true. And they should have during the voir dire of the jurors -- that should have come out. But it was --
BEHAR: Dog lovers.
KOBILINSKY: -- compressed. It was a very quick jury selection.
BEHAR: I see. You know, yesterday Marcia, the prosecution made a mistake. They admitted the wrong can of odor into evidence. I mean I heard about this, this death odor that they talked about. Yesterday it was the wrong odor. Does that -- does that make the prosecution look slightly incompetent?
CLARK: Not to me. You know, you`re handling a lot --
BEHAR: Why not?
CLARK: Because you`re handling a lot of pieces of evidence. And you have many canisters --
BEHAR: But that`s a big piece of evidence.
CLARK: It is -- yes. Look. The evidence itself, Joy, no question is important. But they mismarked something that`s going into evidence. You have a lot of pieces of evidence that you`re dealing with on counsel table. So one got mismarked and put it -- you know at the end of the day I do not think it`s going to be quite the big deal that has been made of it in the past couple of days. I think ultimately -- we`ll see.
BEHAR: I would be strict on this one. There`s a difference between - - Advil, Aleve, it`s not like that.
KOBILINSKY: Right. Right
BEHAR: You know these are very important pieces of evidence. Ok.
KOBILINSKY: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Thank you very much, everybody. And we`ll have more on the Casey Anthony trial in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Casey Anthony`s lawyer Jose Baez has been the target of a lot of criticism on TV, Twitter, Facebook; you name it. But why don`t people like him? And could it impact Casey`s defense?
With me now to discuss that are Diane Dimond, special correspondent for "The Daily Beast" and "Newsweek"; plus back with me also is Marcia Clark, former prosecutor in the O.J. Simpson trial and author of "Guilty by Association".
Welcome ladies to the show.
DIANE DIMOND, SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT, "THE DAILY BEAST" & "NEWSWEEK": Thanks.
BEHAR: Marcia, by reading the message boards, Twitter, Facebook, it`s apparent a lot of people find Baez unlikable. Does that matter in the case?
CLARK: It may, Joy. It may because juries have to somehow to -- have to somehow appreciate the messenger as well as the message to some degree. But I`m going to counter that with a little bit of a caveat which is he`s being very aggressive, he`s got kind of a bulldog style to him.
And jurors will cut defense attorneys some slack for that sort of thing and say, you know what? If I was accused of a heinous crime like this I would want somebody fighting tooth and nail for me too. So they will cut him some slack for being a bit aggressive.
BEHAR: Yes.
CLARK: But at the end of the day, if he`s not making his point well, if he`s not delivering a cogent message to the jury, he will get hurt for that.
BEHAR: Well, what do you think about that, Diane? About him?
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Well, I think -- I think Marcia`s right. However, I do a lot of Twittering on this case and a lot of Facebooking as well. And you`re right. Nobody seems to like him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They don`t like him.
DIMOND: The Twitters -- tweets me back, whatever the word is.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
DIMOND: I`ve met the man. He is a little bit of a bulldog but he`s also sort of a great American Dream kind of guy. Came up from a single mother, got married very young, had a child, went into the Navy, he was proficient at Tae Kwon Do.
BEHAR: Tae Kwon do, yes.
DIMOND: So he`s very competitive. He is physically competitive and it`s not beneath him to get reporters in the lunch room and kind of bully them about things that we`ve written.
BEHAR: Really?
DIMOND: Yes oh he did that with me.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: He took exception with something I`d written at "The Daily Beast" and tried to -- and tried to intimidate me.
BEHAR: Intimidate you.
DIMOND: Yes. And so I laughed.
BEHAR: But to Marcia`s point the jurors might like that.
DIMOND: Well yes but if --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: How have they responded to him?
DIMOND: -- if a lot of people out in Twitterdom and Facebookdom don`t like him.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: Then, there`s a pretty chance that some of the jury don`t like him.
BEHAR: But do they have -- the question is do they have to like him. I mean what`s the difference? And is he possibly, Marcia, is he possibly acting unlikable on purpose to take the heat off Casey?
Well, we don`t like the defense lawyer, but you know, poor girl, she`s stuck with him.
CLARK: Yes. You made a very good point, Joy. That`s really important. A jury -- jurors are not that dumb. Jurors can see the difference between who`s the client and who`s the lawyer. There have been instances where the jury will feel like they have to bend over backwards to be fair to the client because the lawyer is either A, not that good or B, obnoxious.
BEHAR: Yes.
CLARK: I have talked to jurors after trials and they have told me point blank, you know what? We just didn`t want to hurt the defendant for this. We didn`t want to punish them, we wound up actually excusing a lot of the stupid things we saw him do or the obnoxious things we saw him do to try and give her the benefit of the doubt, nevertheless, we found guilty for whatever reason.
But, you know, I do think the jurors will make an effort to separate their distaste for the lawyer if they have it and they very well may, from her.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: We`ll hope --
DIMOND: Yes.
CLARK: And it might wind up helping.
BEHAR: But you know, it reminds me of the O.J. Simpson trial which you were the prosecutor on. Did the -- did the jury like the defense attorneys better than they like the prosecutors? Is that what happened? Was there something there?
CLARK: I thought -- I thought they did. But as it turns out -- that was my opinion, just based on watching them during the trial -- but I don`t know that it had as much to do with anybody personally, and after the fact they wound up actually saying that, that they really weren`t all that enamored of any of the lawyers --
DIMOND: Well, I covered that trial.
CLARK: -- which is kind of interesting.
DIMOND: I covered that trial, and -- and Johnny Cochran and you, you were both great but Johnny Cochran was a real showman.
BEHAR: And a charmer.
DIMOND: And a charmer.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: And a snake oil salesman some say.
But you know, Baez is not stupid. I have sat in court and I`ve watched him during jury selection and during this.
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: He`s not making huge mistakes. What he is, is inexperienced.
BEHAR: He`s laid out a -- a sort of unusual defense. Shouldn`t the defense really --
(CROSSTALK)
DIMOND: Yes, it`s a very risky defense.
BEHAR: -- shouldn`t the defense have been, you prove that it was not an accident.
DIMOND: Right.
BEHAR: Isn`t that -- isn`t that what the defense -- but they`re not doing that. They`re giving too much information.
DIMOND: In my estimation --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: -- he should have said it was an accident, it was a swimming pool, it happens all the time in Florida with small children and she just panicked. Instead he interjected the grandfather into it, holding the dead child at the pool --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
DIMOND: -- and then what happened? We don`t know.
BEHAR: Right.
DIMOND: He didn`t finish the scenario.
BEHAR: I mean if they had said the child drowned in the pool and you prove that that`s not true. You know? There were only bones -- I mean I`m not saying it`s true.
CLARK: Right.
BEHAR: I`m just saying, that is the defense, it seems to me. Marcia, also this guy, Baez, he actually has never defended in a death penalty case. What about that? Is he qualified to do this?
CLARK: You know, usually, Joy, you would see somebody who has much more experience in criminal cases, and you see somebody who has escalating experience. And you start with the lower level misdemeanors, then felonies and then, you work your way up to the death cases because that`s an awfully huge burden to carry. You`ve got someone`s life in your hands, quite literally.
And so it is unusual to see a high profile death penalty case handled by somebody with his kind of background. I was surprised by that.
DIMOND: And he`s only been a lawyer since 2005.
BEHAR: He`s new at this.
Ok, we`ll continue this in minutes. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: And I`m back discussing the Casey Anthony trial with her lawyer and defense, about them. So I understand that this Baez guy was in a lot of financial trouble at some point. He started a bikini company?
DIMOND: A couple of bikini companies. He graduated from law school, Joy, in 1997. The bar in Florida would not seat him because he hadn`t paid child support, or he was in arrears in child support. He had bad student loans, he had some real financial trouble. And it took him eight years before he actually got his license to practice.
In the meantime, you have to make a living so he started some companies, two of which, sold bikinis.
B; Well, you can`t hold that against him. But something`s a little fishy there.
Anyway, you were saying before that he`s a bit of a bully. So he got into a scuffle with reporters outside the courthouse recently. Let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can we ask if you plan to invite Casey to the stand there?
BAEZ: Come on, guys. (EXPLETIVE DELETED)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Wow.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You get out of the way. Get out of the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You guys know we`re here. You guys know we`re here.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of the way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An outburst like that, that`s kind of unacceptable, Jose, don`t you think?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don`t push us out in the street.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get your hand off of me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Stressed out? Marcia, can you identify with the stress level he must be dealing with? You can probably, right?
CLARK: A little bit. Why do you ask? I have no idea what you`re talking about. Stress? Stress?
I think you`ve got to be awfully careful when you go out in public and all this press is around you. I remember throngs of them walking backwards. I worried about the cameramen getting actually killed because people were back behind them and there was a huge crowd and it got very dangerous.
But you cannot just pop off like that in front of them. You`ve got to be very careful.
BEHAR: Yes. He has other attorneys on his team that are much more likeable and less volatile. Why don`t they go in there and do something?
DIMOND: And more experienced. And more of the older man there, Cheney Mason is his name, and he`s done death penalty cases. So the reporters, we`re all sitting there saying, why doesn`t he let Cheney Mason do something? Some of it.
BEHAR: And the answer to that is?
DIMOND: I don`t know.
BEHAR: Ego?
DIMOND: Perhaps. That`s probably my best guess. Now, Cheney Mason does have a hearing problem. We saw it during jury selection and so maybe that`s a handicap that keeps him sitting down more than standing up. But during the trial we haven`t seen him say a word.
BEHAR: We understand that during her -- she and her brother, Casey and her brother, were slamming Baez in these jailhouse phone calls that they were doing. So she doesn`t -- does she even trust him, Marcia?
CLARK: That`s a good question. Especially right now. If she`s being informed of all the twitters and tweets that are negative of him or is she seeing in his appearance in court not impressing the jurors she might very well have lost faith.
But there`s nothing she can do about it at this point. She`s got him, they`re midstream. The judge is not going to allow her to relieve him as her counsel at this point. She`s in it. That`s it.
DIMOND: You know what? At jury selection there was a little tiff with him and the microphone was left on and he looked at her and said, "Stop acting like a 2-year-old." And she said, "Oh, really?" And she swatted him.
BEHAR: Oh, boy.
DIMOND: This is a jury selection. This is before the trial even starts. So there is some tension.
BEHAR: Well, some careers are hanging by a thread here, looks like.
DIMOND: Yes and some lives too.
BEHAR: And some lives. Ok. Thank you ladies, very much.
We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, yet more allegations emerge in the Anthony Weiner sex scandal. We`ll have all the latest.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: New York Congressman Anthony Weiner admitted at a press conference just yesterday to carrying on inappropriate relationships with several women online and lying about it. Listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WEINER: I`ve engaged in several inappropriate conversations, conducted over Twitter, Facebook, e-mail and occasionally on the phone with women I met online. I`ve exchanged messages and photos of an explicit nature with about six women over the last three years. For the most part, these communications took place before my marriage, though some have sadly took place after.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: So how many women has Weiner really been in contact with and can his marriage and career survive? Here now to discuss this are Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and a marriage and family therapist. Ian Kerner, sex therapist and relationship counselor. And Jessica Coen, editor in chief of Jezebel.com.
Jessica, he admitted to six women. OK? You think there are any more than that?
JESSICA COEN, JEZEBEL.COM: I don`t see why there wouldn`t be. He already tried to dodge a bullet when the story first came out. Oh, it`s not my underpants, but it was, so I would not be surprised if his thinking is that he`s going to give us just enough information to satisfy us and pay penance on that, but God only knows how much more there is.
BEHAR: It`s like the Tiger Woods thing where there were more and more and more and more. Bethany, you`re the shrink of the group, but so are you, Ian, actually. But is he a narcissist? A sex addict? Or just a really horny guy? What`s your opinion?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: How about a clustering together of all these characteristics. You know, the primary motivation behind the joy of sext is the desire for power and the desire for reassurance that you`re endlessly sexually desirable and attractive. When you think about it through narcissism, let`s think of narcissism. Self-aggrandizement and devaluation of others. So he thinks just because -- he thinks his wiener is great, everybody else should think it`s great too. Lack of empathy. He`s not thinking about his wife. Playing by one`s own rules instead of the rules of society, feeling above reproach. Proneness to boredom and thrill seeking. One of the things about these high-powered politicians, is they often tend to be sensation seekers because there`s boredom and dissatisfaction with their romantic and their sexual lives.
BEHAR: OK. Well, that pretty much covers DSK, Dominique Strauss- Kahn, it covers Schwarzenegger also, that exact profile that she just laid out. Do they think they`re not --
MARSHALL: It also covers Tiger Woods.
BEHAR: Yes.
MARSHALL: Because if you think of it in terms of a compulsion, a compulsion is designed to neutralize a buildup of anxiety and tension. So what`s the anxiety, that he`s not important, he`s not sexy, he`s not wanted, so he sends out all these texts in a compulsive way to reassure himself and to neutralize that feeling of being unwanted.
IAN KERNER, RELATIONSHIP COUNSELOR: I think the other side of it is that these kinds of Internet technologies really play into reward centers in the brain. You know, Facebook, texting, e-mail, it`s a quick hit of instant gratification. So I think in some ways, you know, he`s also really just seeking that quick thrill, and it`s a very unfortunate medium to be matched up with a guy of his impulsive nature.
BEHAR: OK, let me read a part of his alleged Facebook exchanges with a woman. Weiner says, "ridiculous bulge in my shorts now. Want to see?" And the woman says, "yes, can you send a pic?" I didn`t even go on any further because it`s too gross to say on television.
Now, he, Bethany, he has not met any of these women, apparently. It looks as though. So is that cheating in your opinion, Bethany?
MARSHALL: Cheating is doing something that would hurt your partner`s feelings and make them feel betrayed. It`s not dependent upon the act, it`s dependent on the attitude. And there is a very interesting reversal. Most men, when they want to feel turned on, will look at a picture of a woman, make out with a woman. They`ll want to get to know the woman. He wants the woman to be turned on by looking at him. And this is what we see with --
KERNER: He`s an exhibitionist.
MARSHALL: Isn`t that strange? Yes, he`s an exhibitionist, but also he`s removing himself from knowing what the woman is really thinking. Which means he`s living in his own fantasy world.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But would it work? Going with what you just said, Bethany, would it just work for him if men were looking at him, because -- if all he wants is to be looked at, what`s the difference who`s looking at him? You can go to the ASPCA, the dogs will look at him.
(LAUGHTER)
COEN: He probably has that now, so.
BEHAR: Go ahead, Bethany.
MARSHALL: I think the whole world`s looking at him now. But I think since women are his sexual preference, yes, it does matter if a woman`s looking, but what I think is significant, what we see with sex addiction is the person thinks that whatever`s going on in their mind is going on in the other person`s mind. Just because I`m aroused, you`re aroused. Just because I think my penis is hot, you should think my penis is hot. So it`s removed. And because he`s sending it out via a sext, he doesn`t have to look at the look on the other woman`s face and check out reality to see if she really thinks he`s desirable.
BEHAR: But you know, there are women like this also who get breast implants, who parade around in bikinis, really looking at themselves also. It`s not just a male disease, this.
COEN: No, absolutely not, but I find it very interesting that a man is doing this. It`s -- to be objectified as a man happens considerably less. So I think there is a real thrill to that.
BEHAR: But men who get to the point of powerful positions, are more - - there are more of them than women who are in that position.
COEN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: And when a woman gets to a powerful position, she doesn`t do that. Because she`s worked too hard to get there, I think.
COEN: And because she`s already been objectified quite possibly.
BEHAR: Probably.
COEN: But it`s the last taboo for Anthony Weiner. He`s got it all.
KERNER: Well, also, here is a guy who has to be in control of every aspect of his life. You know, everything. You know, work, always in the public spotlight, and yet he completely unravels. Although he`s flaunting his sexual power, in a weird way he`s also really submitting in a way.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. He`s also, you know, by the way, he`s in a lot of trouble, Bethany. There`s a photo of the uncovered Weiner that`s out there, but Breitbart, Andrew Breitbart will not release it yet. But I- -
MARSHALL: You`re not going to show it, are you?
BEHAR: No, I have more grace than that. More poise. I`ll look at it later.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: No. I`m kidding. But I do know that some people in the industry already have a copy of it. So it`s going to be out there. It will be out there on the Internet pretty soon.
KERNER: I think a lot is going to be out there. I mean, this is usually not just, you know, one time. I mean, I`m sure that there`s a very, very deep history of texts and photos and different kinds of engagements and relationships online.
MARSHALL: I think that`s true. I think Ian`s right, because one of the things we see with sex addiction is the person engages in riskier and riskier behaviors. They have an increasing need for stimulation and sensation. They don`t think about what`s going on in the other person`s mind. So we could see that there is quite a storehouse of pictures and texts out there.
BEHAR: OK. Now, according to what he said, he and his wife and working it out, Jessica.
COEN: Right.
BEHAR: And they also have -- Hillary Clinton is helping her, advising her. Talk about the blind leading the deaf, she`s been there. Really, I love Hillary, but why should she talk to her?
COEN: Well, in terms of a political marriage, staying together in the spotlight, they`ve accomplished that.
BEHAR: I know, but they`ve only been married a year.
COEN: No, I`m saying, that`s why Hillary would be a good counselor, I suppose. But it is really unsettling that not even a year of marriage yet and he`s already engaging in these behaviors. Shouldn`t you wait until you get a little bored with things, seven years in, something like that?
MARSHALL: Don`t you think it`s interesting that he`s saying they`re working it out? Should we really believe anything he says?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What do you make of the fact she didn`t show up, Bethany? She didn`t show up at the press conference.
COEN: Good for her.
MARSHALL: Well, this is a huge insult. And this is what we saw with Tiger Woods`s wife, is that the cheating and the lying and the betrayal and the deception were so prolific, it was an insult she just couldn`t ignore, and that`s what we might see with his wife, is that she just may not be able to ignore the sting of all of this. But he says they`re working it out, I`m not so sure because he seems to be lost in his own little fantasy world about all of this.
BEHAR: Well, maybe she should have spoken to Jenny Sanford, who left that other dog, who went to Argentina to find his soul mate. How annoying was he? But I think she should have spoken to Jenny instead of Hillary, because Hillary stayed with him. But that is a different situation, she was married to Bill many years.
KERNER: They have very little invested in this marriage. I mean, I would not be surprised at all if she--
BEHAR: She should dump him.
KERNER: -- she up and leaves. And you know, she`s beautiful, he should have been sexting her, not every other women.
BEHAR: No, it has nothing to do with beauty, right, Bethany?
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: You know what, can I say, even teenagers who sext, we don`t want them to do it, but at least they`re more appropriate. They choose age mates, peers, and they sext to people who actually want the photos. What we see with these high-powered politicians is that there`s a huge age differential, and sometimes the recipient doesn`t even want the sex. And that`s why it`s really power, not passion.
BEHAR: OK, last word.
KERNER: I`m just going to say, in a committed relationship, you should ultimately be able to be creative with your partner and all of those impulses that he`s taking out of his marriage, he should try and direct within the relationship.
BEHAR: This idea that you don`t cheat on a beautiful woman is really bologna, because mostly these guys we`re talking about all have gorgeous wives. Has nothing to do with it. You know? OK. Thank you guys very much. We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The World Health Organization claims there is a possible link between cell phones and cancer and scared everybody, but the National Cancer Institute believes there is no increased risk. So let`s ask America`s favorite doctor, Dr. Mehmet Oz, what he thinks, because he knows everything. His new book is, "You, the owner`s guide for teens," a guide to a healthy body and a happy life. Welcome to the show.
DR. MEHMET OZ: You`re welcome as always.
BEHAR: Yet again, this is your third visit I believe.
OZ: I love coming here to visit with you.
BEHAR: I do too. I love having you here. OK, let`s clear this up. Because everybody was in a panic state last week over this cancer and the cell phones. What do you say?
OZ: I`m concerned about it. We`ve talked about it on the show quite a bit. The realty is, the World Health Organization used to say, we don`t have enough data. What they said now is, that we don`t know. There is a possible link between cell phones and cancer. They are saying that because they got together a bunch of scientists, very thoughtful people, who looked at all the data and said, you know what, it`s not that it causes cancer, but there`s no way you can say it doesn`t. The data is just too mixed.
So here`s what I think folks ought to do. Don`t toss the phone because I know you`re not going to do that anyway. But there are simple smart things you can do, Joy, to reduce the chance that if it does cause damage to your brain, you won`t die of cancer. For example, if the reception is poor on the phone, hold it away from your head, put it on speakerphone.
BEHAR: Most people do the opposite.
OZ: They hold it close and you see it -- it`s glued into your brain, it basically becomes an ear implant.
BEHAR: Is this on? I can`t hear you. Can you hear me now? And you have it closer to your head. That`s bad.
OZ: Bad. And you`re going to -- when you`re driving in a car, it`s a problem because you`re shifting from cell tower to cell tower. It has to anchor its (inaudible). If you`re in an elevator, don`t use cell phones in those settings.
Second thing is--
BEHAR: Wait a minute, an elevator and in a car, no. Unless -- how about the Blue Tooth and the --
OZ: The Bluetooth devices are fine, except the people leave them in like they`re ornaments. They wear them as jewelry. So when you`re not using it, you`ve got to take it out of your ear, otherwise it`s still an antenna. It`s still receiving airwaves even though there is no phone reception coming through.
BEHAR: What about those just -- what about ear plug things?
OZ: Wired ear buds are the best. Those are safe.
BEHAR: Those are safe.
OZ: Or use a speakerphone. Or again, you don`t have to change your entire behavior, but switch to phone from side to side. And another big mistake folks make--
BEHAR: So get brain cancer on both sides.
OZ: It`s possible. Get it on one side or get it on both. Get it over with. But the bigger reality is that it`s probably related to dose of exposure. And when we talk about cancer, that`s one of the big issues. It`s how many times can you hit the wall that risks cancer before it finally catches you.
BEHAR: Well, it does make sense. That things`s got something in it. I don`t care for it either, but OK. You had a cancer scare yourself, and you say in an article that we read that you were a very bad patient.
OZ: I`m going to tell you something. I brought the picture. Be honest with me. I`m touching myself, you like that, by the way? So you see, the reason I did that, I did this was because I have spent the last year torturing myself and folks around me about this darn colon polyp that I had. And I`m not a good patient. I wanted to be clear about that, because at the end of the day, I gained a lot of insight about why people who are listening to me on the show aren`t paying attention to what I`m saying or at least not acting on what they`re hearing.
BEHAR: Why not? Because you`re so handsome they just stare at you.
OZ: You`re kind to say that. But I think the bigger reason is -- (inaudible) -- it was an epiphany for me, and the reason we wrote this book, is the same thing, is why do rational people do irrational things. It`s crazy.
BEHAR: You mean like Anthony Weiner?
OZ: For example, as an example. What`s going on in there? And for me, it wasn`t about a belief that I`m immortal. I think like all the folks watching this right now, we know that`s not the case. And it wasn`t even that I didn`t think that the rules applied to me, because I know they do.
BEHAR: What did you do that was so bad?
OZ: The reason I did it, the reason a lot of folks do it is because they don`t want to disrupt their lives.
BEHAR: The reason you did what?
OZ: In my case I ate lentils and beats before my colonoscopy, which tasted good but ruined the view of the colon.
BEHAR: Took a little time to ruin the view.
(CROSSTALK)
OZ: I procrastinated, I stalled. Everything I could.
BEHAR: Wait a second. After the prep, let`s not get too graphic but I`ve had the colonoscopies, after the prep you`re not supposed to eat after that?
OZ: No, I ate it just before the prep, thinking the prep would take it out. But if you eat a big bowl full of lentils and beets--
BEHAR: You`re not supposed to do that.
OZ: No. It`s not going anywhere.
BEHAR: Can I ask you about the prep for a minute? Because people would like to know. I hate the prep more than the colonoscopy. I enjoy the colonoscopy.
OZ: Tells us a lot about you, Joy.
BEHAR: But the actual prep is hideous and horrifying. The drinking that stuff is like drinking the bottom of the ocean. Cannot -- can`t they come up with something better?
OZ: You know, the thing about this radiator fluid, which is basically what it is.
BEHAR: Radiator fluid is a good way to describe it. Yes.
OZ: It flushes everything out, but it`s toxic to you in high doses. It`s good it`s not being absorbed, but it makes you feel miserable because it`s not being absorbed. But it does work. And in fairness, the second time I did it, when I didn`t have the lentils and the beets and I took it the right way, and I took a suppository, you could have eaten tapas (ph) off my colon wall, it was so clean.
BEHAR: That`s so delightful. Thank you for sharing that image.
Now we talked a little bit about, you say that teen brains are wired and hard-wired to make them do -- to make bad decisions and do stupid things.
OZ: Kids, the teen brain is really immature.
BEHAR: It`s in your book here.
OZ: It is. And the teen brain doesn`t mature until you are in your early 20s. So when I looked at what teens -- the reason I wrote this book, is I`ve written lots of books about how -- the entire "You, The Owners Manual" is all about weight loss and anti-aging, and beauty and general health, and all that stuff. At the end of the day we realized that kids were reading those books, and they were actually using them as textbooks in schools. Think about this. The book is written about menopause and prostate health.
BEHAR: So what, it`s very informative.
OZ: But kids don`t want to read that. Teens want to know about pimples and body odor and sexual issues. So we thought we`d write them their own book. And we focused on that because we realized they needed to have a place to turn to to have an open conversation, because their parents aren`t doing it for them.
So I looked at all those possible factors, you know, all the different things kids want to hear about, I realized the No. 1 thing is that kids make bad decisions. No. 1 reason kids die is accidents, and they make decisions when they`re teens that they suffer from for the rest of their life.
BEHAR: Of course. You hear about these kids who are on the sexual predators list because they sent a pick -- tweeted a picture of themselves naked when they were 13 years old.
OZ: And now they`re in trouble and they carry that burden their whole life. So the question then becomes what do you do about it? So among other things, we wanted to create a place where kids can go -- by the way, go to droz.com, we have a free site, you can ask questions, health professionals will answer your questions, nurses moderate it so it`s safe. We did a lot to make it easier for kids to do the right thing, but fundamentally, it`s about that conversation that parents have to have with their teens. For example--
BEHAR: OK, I only have 15 seconds.
OZ: Well, you ought to sleep for nine hours a night, not seven hours.
BEHAR: For kids. This is teenagers.
OZ: For kids. Think about that, think of that conversation as we go to break.
BEHAR: OK. We`ll have more with Dr. Oz, I`m taking a nap for the two hours I missed this morning. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back with Dr. Oz and his new book is "You: The Owners Manual for Teens." You have a cure for bad breath and B.O. in this book?
OZ: When you talk to teenagers, it`s about all the things that embarrass them. So we want to talk about how to pop pimples and deal with bad breath. Tongue scraping works for that, by the way. But here is the big deal, for body odor, a lot of folks don`t realize that bacteria in your gut digests your food. If you have the wrong bacteria, you`ll smell. So probiotics are actually a very effective tool for body odor.
BEHAR: Oh, really? Probiotics. So -- but no one ever tells you. Although the other day I was talking to Larry King and he said that Donald Trump told him he had bad breath. How rude is that?
OZ: I can imagine. I don`t think he has bad breath. I think he`s fine.
BEHAR: Have you ever kissed him?
OZ: I haven`t kissed him. I`ve talked to him.
BEHAR: OK. The other thing I was reading, that old Chinese medicine, they say after 60 you should not have sex anymore because the ejaculate -- is that the word?
OZ: It is.
BEHAR: It reduces your years on the earth because it takes something out of you or something.
OZ: This is the Dr. Oz show tomorrow. I was going to touch on this topic. But here`s why. First of all, I don`t believe that. When you ejaculate you actually cleanse toxins from the prostate. So even if you`re not with someone else, you`ve got to do it for yourself, but you`ve got to periodically evacuate yourself in order to clean your prostate.
BEHAR: Oh, that`s delightful.]
OZ: But there`s the deal. Oral cancer, which used to be reserved for men, you know, for smokers--
BEHAR: Don`t go there, I know where you`re going.
OZ: I`ll tell you, but it is a sexually transmitted illness. I got to say it, it`s important. And it is something a lot of teens especially, but adult women pick up, the HPV virus that causes cervical cancer causes throat cancer as well.
BEHAR: But if you have that particular HPV virus, you should not -- you should be at a doctor`s office. Not in bed with some woman--
OZ: But what`s driving up oral cancer rates is oral sex.
BEHAR: Oral sex. That became popular in the past 30 years. When I was in high school or college, it was like -- everybody thought -- now it`s like everybody wants to do that.
OZ: Have you changed your opinion on it?
BEHAR: Have I changed my opinion? Occasionally. During Jewish holidays only, believe me. All right. Here`s another one. I love this. A new study links women`s facial wrinkles to weaker bones.
OZ: Talk about that, too, in the teen book.
BEHAR: Wait a second, here is my question. That would mean that African-American women, you know, black don`t crack, they have the most melanin in their skin. Do they have the least problem with osteoporosis?
OZ: Yes, they have less osteoporosis.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
OZ: Especially women from northern Europe, when they have thinning bones--
BEHAR: And they also get wrinkled faster.
OZ: You think collagen that keeps your skin plastic and bouncy is also found in your bones. So not surprisingly, if you don`t have the same amount and quality of collagen in your skin, you wont` have it in your bones, so you get more osteoporosis. Plus, the skin doesn`t hang on stuff the way it needs to because your bones are thinning.
BEHAR: That`s right. That`s why you need botox and restalin.
OZ: You look more beautiful every day.
BEHAR: Thank you. Well, I`m Italian. I`m good skinned. That`s the key. You have to be-- that Mediterranean area seems to work for skin and bones.
OZ: But you`ve also got to live the right life. The fact is that external beauty is a barometer of inner health. That`s why guys like that will see beauty in somebody sometimes inappropriately and go after it.
BEHAR: I see.
OZ: Because it reflects inner beauty of whoever they`re trying to mate with.
BEHAR: But some of the most evil people are good-looking.
With that, you can check your local listing to see when the Dr. Oz show airs on weekdays in your area. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Stay healthy. Stop smoking. We know the rules. Stop smoking.
OZ: More sex.
BEHAR: More sex, get on the treadmill. All right.
END
