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Joy Behar Page
Casey Anthony Murder Trial; Women`s Sexuality
Aired June 20, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, The judge in the Casey Anthony trial unleashes on both teams --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE BELVIN PERRY, PRESIDING OVER CASEY ANTHONY TRIAL: Yes, there have been gamesmanship in this particular case. There is a friction.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So will the jurors be able to separate the gamesmanship from the facts?
And tempers flare outside the courtroom, as well.
What is it about the trial that has America obsessed?
Plus, a President Obama impersonator is kicked out of a GOP event after telling jokes about Republican candidates. Joy will get the impersonator`s side of the story.
That and more starting right now.
BEHAR: The Casey Anthony murder trial began this morning at 9:00 a.m. and ended quickly after with a furious judge and a ton of tension between the defense and the state.
Here now to talk about the fireworks in court today are Mark Geragos, noted defense attorney who has defended among others Scott Peterson and Michael Jackson; Stacy Honowitz, Florida prosecutor; and Ryan Smith, host of "In Session" on TruTV and he`s outside the courthouse in Orlando.
Ryan, the judge was furious this morning and recessed until 9:00 a.m. tomorrow with no witnesses ever making it to the stand. Do we know why?
RYAN SMITH, HOST, "IN SESSION": We don`t know why precisely. All we know is that this was a joint stipulation between both parties to start tomorrow meaning the prosecution and the defense. I don`t know if they`re going to depose some witnesses that should have been deposed already. We can`t be sure.
But the big thing was just as you said, the sides went at it, and this was the second time in two days where the defense has been accused of a discovery violation; the defense then saying back to the prosecution that it`s their fault because they didn`t depose certain witnesses; and the judge is basically frustrated at this point, throwing up his hands, saying both sides are engaging in gamesmanship and both sides need to get their act together.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s watch the judge scold both sides today.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: Two of you will never agree on anything and will never interpret anything the same way. All of this, folks, is going to stop or you will be working some very fierce days.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Stacy, how angry is this judge?
STACEY HONOWITZ, FLORIDA PROSECUTOR: Well, he`s really angry. And the lawyers although we didn`t hear it, the lawyers got the hint today that they better get their act together.
Here`s the bottom line, here`s the deal -- there`s no trial by ambush. Both sides have to know what the other side is going to present. And the judge had issued orders way back saying if you`re going to use experts, all of their opinion need to be reduced in writing, and how they got that opinion, what they relied upon. You switch it to the other side so the other side knows what`s going on.
In this case, what happened was, the experts that the defense intended to call did not reduce it to writing, and the one expert that did reduce it to writing didn`t really say much. And so there was no reason to depose him.
The reason why there`s a recess today is because the judge gave them the old nod-arooni (ph). You better get your act together today. Take deposition, get your experts in order, get the written orders and don`t violate them. He`s going to hold his hand at the end of this case and make a decision what to do with the lawyers.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It sounds like a little trickery to me.
Mark, are these attorneys acting particularly childish, or is this what always happen in big cases like this, Mark?
MARK GERAGOS, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY: It almost happens in every big case. I will tell you something, it`s not just the defense. What inevitably happens is the prosecution is always -- I always say, DDA, doesn`t stand for deputy district attorney, it`s delayed discovery agent.
They never turn over stuff on time. You`re constantly playing catch- up. And then when you get to the defense case, finally the prosecutor`s screaming always bloody murder, they didn`t get this, they didn`t get that. You noticed today that the judge did not hammer just the defense but both sides.
BEHAR: Yes.
GERAGOS: It always comes down to this. A judge is at wits end and it`s human nature. He can see the light at the end of the tunnel and he wants to make sure this thing just gets to the jury. So he figures, look, if I just recess today it`s going to reduce the issues, have them come back tomorrow, have them try to work in methodical fashion and get it done.
As Stacey says, probably hold any threat of contempt or anything else until after the trial.
BEHAR: Ok. Now the judge reprimanded Jose Baez on Saturday. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PERRY: What you`re basically saying, sir, is that you can pick which court orders you comply with and which court orders you don`t comply with. And that`s not going to happen here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: The judge even threatened to site him in contempt. Will that happen?
SMITH: It could very well happen because what happened with this witness is he got up on the stand and started talking about decomposition. But that wasn`t something that he had in the pre-trial report. And that was the court order.
So he basically said to Jose Baez, at the end this trial I will consider a contempt hearing. We`ve seen the judge do this before in different matters in this case.
But here`s the thing -- he is serious about these court orders, and as Mark and Stacey were saying, if you don`t adhere to those court orders and people don`t have the information, it becomes hard for them to depose that particular witness on that opinion. He`s trying to avoid that and keep this trial moving at a swift pace.
BEHAR: Mark, how much trouble is Baez in, in your opinion?
GERAGOS: Hardly any at all. You name the big trial I will tell you the lawyer that has been threatened with contempt. It`s standard operating procedure. Generally, tensions gets high, especially when you have this kind of attention. It`s much ado about nothing at this point.
The -- the only time that it`s going to cross over and you`re going to have a problem is if it threatens to scuttle the proceedings. So far that hasn`t happened.
I will assure you however that if something happens that he has to declare or is forced with the option of declaring a mistrial, then all heck`s going to break loose. Until that happens, the bark is worse than the bite.
BEHAR: It just so happens that someone tweeted something today about you, Mark. Do you want me to read it to you?
GERAGOS: I`m sure it was a very complimentary tweet.
BEHAR: It is. It`s -- this is how it goes -- Baez, note to self, need help. Call Geragos ASAP.
GERAGOS: Look, the problem with these cases is you`ve --
BEHAR: Could you help Baez. Mark, could you help Baez, do you think? Do you think you could help him?
HONOWITZ: Yes.
GERAGOS: He`s doing a -- I guess I would characterize it as a workmanlike job under extremely, extremely tough circumstances. Until you`ve gone through one of these -- and I`ve been through it seems like 10 or 20 of these -- you don`t understand the amount of pressure normally in a trial like this. And then it gets compounded when you have all of the media attention and everything else there. You -- you tend to be in a fishbowl.
It`s incredibly, incredibly kind of a pressure cooker atmosphere. People are constantly second-guessing you and armchair-quarterbacking you. And they`re invested in it. I mean you`ve seen it, Joy, through the people that are commenting and the ratings that you`ve had on this channel --
BEHAR: Yes. Big time.
GERAGOS: There are people who are invested in this case to the -- almost the exclusion of their own life.
HONOWITZ: It`s a soap opera.
GERAGOS: And that -- that becomes kind of a -- yes, it is a living soap opera where people get invested in it.
BEHAR: I know. Ryan, the trial basically lost an entire day today. Are the jurors annoyed? I would be if I were sequestered and missing my life for this trial. And now I lose an entire day because of the shenanigans of these lawyers, I would be annoyed.
SMITH: I think they are. And I go back to jury selection on this one because there are some people on the jury who were willing to serve, but they weren`t exactly thrilled about being away from six to eight weeks, away from their family.
And you remember, this is not a jury that`s from Orlando, this is a jury that`s from an area near Tampa and shipped in so they don`t get phone access, Internet access --
HONOWITZ: But Joy, can I --
BEHAR: Go ahead Stacey.
SMITH: They`re locked in the jury room -- they don`t want to lose a day.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok.
HONOWITZ: Let me say one thing -- I want to say one thing. And Mark knows this, too.
This is high profile, the nation`s watching it, hammering it every single day. Mark knows every single day in courtrooms across the country these kinds of things happen. Jurors sometimes come in and 15 minutes later there`s a discrepancy between the defense and the prosecutor. And the judge says you have to send them home, we`re starting again tomorrow.
The difference is they are sequestered, they`re away. They want to get it done, over with. That`s why this judge said from now on we`re going to work full days on Saturdays. The lawyers are going to come in at 8:30 in the morning because we don`t want this to happen.
This type of behavior that we`re seeing in a fish bowl is not unusual. It`s not unusual --
GERAGOS: Exactly.
HONOWITZ: -- for defense lawyers and for prosecutors every single day to fight and say you didn`t tell me this and you didn`t tell me that.
GERAGOS: Exactly.
HONOWITZ: This is exploding because it`s to the millionth degree. That`s why we focus on it so much.
(CROSSTALK)
GERAGOS: Stacey`s got it 100 percent right -- 100 percent right.
HONOWITZ: Thank you, Mark, and I always do my discovery on time, Mark. I want to tell you, I am timely in my discovery.
GERAGOS: I`m sure you`re the -- you`re the exception, Stacey.
BEHAR: Isn`t it nice when prosecuting attorneys and defense attorneys can get along? It`s a beautiful thing.
HONOWITZ: It is.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you guys very much. We`ll have more on the Casey Anthony trial in just a minute.
A.J. HAMMER, HLN HOST, "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT": Coming up tonight on "SHOWBIZ TONIGHT", the Casey Anthony murder trial uncovers a disturbing fascination with moms who ill. What`s behind the twisted obsession? And what`s Casey`s connection to the other headline-making murder trials? 11:00 p.m. Eastern and Pacific on HLN.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Not since the O.J. Simpson case in 1995 has the entire country been riveted to a trial the way we are to the Casey Anthony trial which is going on now in Orlando, Florida. But why is that? What is it about this case that people find so compelling?
Here now to discuss this is Robin Wilkie, she`s been inside the Casey Anthony courtroom every day since the start and has done her fair share of waiting on line to get in.
Ok Robin, you`re not part of the media, you`re not a lawyer. You`re just a member of the public and yet you came from Minnesota to watch the trial in Florida which cost you $3,000. Why did you do that?
ROBIN WILKIE, HAS BEEN IN THE CASEY ANTHOY COURTROOM: Because it is truly, truly a fascinating case. And actually I am a victim of violent crime.
BEHAR: Oh.
WILKIE: And so I was fascinated -- I was fascinated by that. And I have no life. No, I`m just kidding, Joy. No. Right. No. I -- everyone can really relate to this case because of the dysfunctional family. We all have some semblance of dysfunction in our family.
Casey is attractive, Caucasian, middle class, young woman. And people -- that`s what`s fascinating people. They are just going stir crazy from that.
BEHAR: And the little girl is also -- a cute little girl. If the whole family was not so good looking, you think we wouldn`t be watching it, Robin?
WILKIE: Yes, which is very unfortunate. It`s -- it`s definitely, unfortunately -- we do, I think, discriminate somewhat. Now I think another reason why it is so fascinating is because we`ve never really seen a case where you don`t report the child missing for over 30 days.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
WILKIE: That`s such a rarity.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And also she went out partying --
WILKIE: And I think that that`s all --
BEHAR: -- she went out partying. She was on her computer looking up chloroform and breaking a neck and all of that stuff. It doesn`t look good. It doesn`t look good. So people are probably coming to their own conclusions.
But you know what, we`ve seen footage of people running, knocking others over to get a seat. And there was even a fight that broke outside the courthouse on Friday. Were you around for that? And tell us --
(CROSSTALK)
WILKIE: Yes, I was right there.
BEHAR: Tell me what happened.
WILKIE: It was really awful. People behind, let`s say, the first 50 people in line were starting to get jealous because they realized that they probably were not going to get a ticket because there was only 50 tickets that are handed out.
Now, they`ve just started to get jealous. I`m the sharpie lady --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Look at this.
WILKIE: -- and I tried to calm down the crowd. It was awful. And I scolded the crowd, and these people were just selfish. And then there was a group of people that came and decided to just cut in line. Not good.
BEHAR: Not good.
WILKIE: These people have been waiting for 10, 13 -- I myself waited 15 hours.
BEHAR: My God.
WILKIE: And you don`t want to cut in line.
BEHAR: And you -- you were controlling the crowd. You spent $3,000.
WILKIE: Yes I was.
BEHAR: They should have paid -- they`ve should have paid you. You know, and tell me --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Go ahead.
WILKIE: Well -- well, you know, Joy, there`s a lot of people that thought I worked for the county. And I said, no, no, I`m -- I`m just a spectator, and I want to go to court just like everyone else.
BEHAR: Yes. Well, I think that the fascination is widespread and interesting. I mean every -- every TV show is featuring this now. All the talk shows are discussing it. So I can understand the fascination.
So thank you, Robin, for weighing in with us today. And maybe you`ll -- maybe you`ll tweet and tell us some more, ok?
WILKIE: You are so welcome, Joy.
BEHAR: Ok.
WILKIE: Thanks for having me.
BEHAR: Ok, dear, thank you.
Now I want to bring in Jim Moret, attorney and chief correspondent for "Inside Edition" who`s been covering this case. Hey, Jim.
JIM MORET, ATTORNEY & CHIEF CORRESPONDENT, "IN SESSION": Yes, hi.
BEHAR: Ok, people sleeping out, running, fighting just to get a seat in the courtroom; have you ever seen anything like this?
MORET: No, I mean not like this. When I was covering the Michael Jackson -- the molestation trial up in Santa Maria, that was about six years ago, all of the crowds were kept outside by a fence and you had hundreds of fans of Michael Jackson`s from all over the world, and there was a circus-like atmosphere, if you will, to that case.
This is different, though, there`s a -- there`s a frenzy to get in, to get a seat. And you just had a guest on who took a plane, spent, you said, $3,000 just to be in that courtroom. But remember, Joy, this case is different in another respect.
The trial -- the crime happened in 2008. So you`ve had three years of a build-up and three years of stories. People think and feel that they know this woman, Casey Anthony.
BEHAR: Right.
MORET: And that`s, I think, one major distinction in this case.
BEHAR: And also the case is about the death of a child and the possibility -- a possibility of a narcissistic mother. Someone who is neglectful and just -- is just egomaniacally concerned about everything that she does.
Could we be obsessed with the psychology of it; because that`s what`s been very interesting for my show because every night when we cover it we talk about the psychology of the people involved. What do you think about that part?
MORET: Well, this case is so hard to wrap your head around. We`ve seen cases where -- where fathers have killed family members, or allegedly killed them.
BEHAR: Yes.
MORET: And you`ve seen cases where a woman has driven her car into a lake with her children. This is different because here the prosecutor is showing you a woman that they say killed, murdered her own child, and then what did we see her doing for the days and weeks after that? Going out, partying. It`s so hard to imagine. And I think that`s really what`s captivating us.
So I think the psychology is a huge part of this case.
BEHAR: Yes. Ok Jim we`ll have more on this in just a minute. Don`t go away.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, an Obama impersonator is kicked off the stage for making fun of Republicans at a GOP event. Now, we`ll hear his side of the story.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Jim Moret. We`re talking about the public`s fascination with the Casey Anthony trial. Now Jim, let`s talk about the media because every station is covering this. This trial has been rating very well for all the networks covering, including this one. Especially this one, I would say.
Now also is this more of a draw for a female audience, do you think? So it`s sort of a two-part question. Why do you think it`s such a draw, first of all? And why for females?
MORET: I think the story is something that`s so hard to understand. You have this adorable little child that was killed. The question, was she murdered, or was she drowned in the pool as the defense is suggesting?
You`ve got all of these tawdry elements to it. You know how the defense brings up allegations of abuse of Casey Anthony by her own family members. It`s a soap opera in a similar sense that -- that O.J. Simpson played out on television. This is playing out night after night. And I think it is attracting largely a female audience, not to suggest in any way that this is programming. It`s not.
BEHAR: Yes.
MORET: But it is -- it is a case, I think, that has really tapped into the -- America`s fascination with this -- this criminal -- criminal justice system --
BEHAR: It reminds me --
MORET: -- in a morbid way.
BEHAR: Yes. It reminds me a little bit of what went on during the O.J. Simpson trial where we were riveted to the TVs every night. It`s funny -- I wonder if a social scientist could pinpoint that time in 1995 as the tipping point where real soap operas on television started to decline. Because that was when you watched a real-life soap opera just like this one.
And nobody wants fiction anymore because we see it on television in this form now. It`s interesting.
MORET: Joy, I anchored the coverage for CNN, and there was only CNN and Court TV on at the time covering the O.J. Simpson gavel-to-gavel. And you could look clearly and see because this was daytime, a daytime event; the soap operas took years to recover. And frankly, some never recovered because people were watching a real-life soap opera.
And you saw very clearly on the ABC, CBS, NBC, their ratings were declining in the daytime hours because people were watching the O.J. Simpson trial.
BEHAR: I really see that there`s a connection to that. Now let me ask you something else. Is the public`s fascination bigger, or on par with those other trials? And, you know, first of all, do you think they are? This one is?
MORET: I think O.J. Simpson was -- was pervasive. I didn`t know anyone who didn`t have an opinion and know intimately all of the facts. This is more niche-oriented, if you will, and that`s partly because of the media now. There are so many -- so many channels, but there are channels and HLN -- one of them that devotes a great deal of time to covering this case, and I think it`s because there`s a huge fascination.
But it`s different. It`s not -- it`s not as pervasive, I think, because everyone knew every aspects of the O.J. Simpson case.
BEHAR: The other elements that are not very attractive in a certain way about this trial and why people are drawn to it is because she is a Caucasian woman with a Caucasian child. I think if this was a non-white case, people would not be as interested in it, and the networks would not be covering it as extensively. Do you agree with that?
MORET: I think you saw that with the Peterson trial -- Scott Peterson. I thought you had -- you had a very handsome man and his beautiful, pregnant wife. And I think much in the same way that`s why it was covered.
BEHAR: Ok, thank you, Jim; lovely to see you again.
MORET: Sure.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up next on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Jon Stewart visit Fox News and quickly loses his cool. Find out what made the "Daily Show" host ask Chris Wallace if he`s insane.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: A Barack Obama impersonator was kicked off the stage at this weekend`s Republican leadership conference in New Orleans after taking digs at some of the Republican presidential candidates. Quelle horror -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REGGIE BROWN, OBAMA IMPERSONATOR: You got your front-runner, Mitt Romney.
Now don`t get me wrong. He might make a great president along with his first lady -- second lady -- third lady.
Now, it`s unfortunate that Tim Pawlenty couldn`t make it here, but cut him some slack. He`s having his foot surgically removed from his mouth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: They didn`t think it was that funny. But some Republicans thought it was funny. I heard Mitt Romney laughed so hard, his hair nearly moved.
Joining me now with their take on this and other stories in the news are Rob Shuter, AOL`s Pop Eater columnist. Carrie Keagan, host of VH-1`s "Big Morning Buzz Live," sounds like very sexual. And Dean Obeidallah, comedian and star of the off-Broadway show, "This Ain`t No Tea Party."
First I want to talk to the Barack Obama impersonator himself, Reggie Brown. Reggie, did the Republicans kick you off because they couldn`t take the heat? Is that what happened?
BROWN: Well, the way it was explained to me was I went over my time. So the gentleman who introduced me came back out, said your time`s up. I said thank you to the audience and went backstage.
BEHAR: Uh-huh. You really believe that?
BROWN: No, I know that.
BEHAR: That -- you look just hike him. Look at the smile. It`s fantastic.
BROWN: Thank you.
BEHAR: But they`re telling you you went over your time. You had a 20-minute set to do. You were at 17 minutes.
BROWN: Well, they allotted me a 20-minute slot, and there was a video they played beforehand, and then an introduction. So that`s what they told me. You know, if that`s not the truth, then it`s not the truth. But they said I was over my time, and I believe them.
BEHAR: It`s a lie. Now because -- let me tell you, the RLC president and CEO, Charlie Davis, said he pulled you off stage because they have, quote, "zero tolerance for racially insensitive jokes." Let me show the clip of what they think was racially insensitive. OK? Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BROWN: My favorite month is February, black history month. You see Michelle, she celebrates the full month, and, you know, I celebrate half.
My father was a black man from Kenya, and my mother was a white woman from Kansas. So yes, my mother loved a black man and no, she was not a Kardashian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s pretty funny, and I don`t think it`s -- I don`t think it`s racially insensitive in the least.
BROWN: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: So I think that`s a bunch of baloney. They didn`t like you talking about Pawlenty in the way you did because -- what did you say? He had his foot in his mouth? He`s so boring.
BROWN: I said he was having his foot surgically removed from his mouth, but don`t worry because it`s covered by Obamneycare. That along with spinal transplants.
BEHAR: It sounded like you were about to make a joke about Michele Bachmann right before getting out, getting cut off and being taken off the stage. What was the joke?
BROWN: Yes. Well, let me say this -- what can I say about Michele Bachmann that she hasn`t already said about herself? Now just last week, she called me a one-term president, which is better than their former leader, George W. Bush, who was a one-syllable president.
So that was my joke that was coming. And you know, it -- I wasn`t able to get it out. I honestly thought that it was a -- a flaw with the powerpoint or the AV department, because I heard the music come on. And I looked to the side at my screen, and I just thought that was a technical issue, and then once he came out, I was off.
BEHAR: No, no, no, no, Reggie. They wanted you off. They didn`t like that you said a joke about Romney and his three million wives, or whatever. And here is the other quote from the guy. He says, quote, "I just thought he had gone too far," this we found out just before. He said, "he was funny the first 10 or 15 minutes, but it was inappropriate. It was getting ridiculous." They`re very, very uptight, those Republicans.
BROWN: Well, it`s interesting, because I work for the Republican Party often as well as the Democratic Party and anywhere in between. So, you know, it`s -- for them to invite me, I was very honored to come down and do my thing. And I was actually surprised by the invitation, and I came down --
BEHAR: The material was bipartisan in my opinion.
BROWN: Oh, yes.
BEHAR: Anyway, you know what -- here`s the good news. You look exactly like the president. You sound like him. You smile like him, and you talk like him. It`s fantastic. Thanks for doing this.
BROWN: My pleasure.
BEHAR: And good luck to you.
BROWN: Thank you very much.
BEHAR: OK, now let me turn to my panel. What do you think? Dean, you`re a comedian. You`re a comedian, Carrie. First of all, was it racially insensitive?
DEAN OBEIDALLAH, COMEDIAN: The jokes? I think in a comedy club, they`re fine. The only argument you can have, that I was a little troubled by, he`s performing in front of all white people pretending to be a black guy doing black jokes. And even the former--
BEHAR: He`s what? Wait a minute? What?
CARRIE KEAGAN, VH-1: He actually is a black man, I think.
OBEIDALLAH: He`s a black performer pretending to be a black president doing jokes about race. That was the only issue --
BEHAR: So what?
OBEIDALLAH: That`s the only issue -- some people look at that -- I`ll be honest, if you just look at that joke alone, it strikes you as essentially somehow racially insensitive. Almost like a minstrel show of the old days. And the former RNC spokesman said the same thing, how do we get black people in the Republican Party when you are having a black performer do black jokes, that`s the term he used. So it`s not just me. There are Republicans saying, this is the message we`re sending out?
BEHAR: I should have asked him if they checked his jokes ahead of time. Because I thought that they would have had to.
Carrie, I have to ask you, do you think they cut him off because of race, racially insensitive jokes, or because they didn`t like the Republican jokes?
KEAGAN: Well, I think that it`s ridiculous that they had him on to begin with, knowing full well that they were hiring a clown. And when his flower squirts you in the face, then all of a sudden they`re surprised? It`s absolutely ridiculous.
But I also think that it`s kind of interesting that you`re saying that -- he`s a black man making black jokes, and that was kind of going the wrong way. I think that`s genius. I think he`s the only one that could get away with doing something like that.
BEHAR: Exactly.
KEAGAN: And I think had they done it the right way, they would have just had that big cane (ph) come out and just pull him off stage and make it part of the show.
(CROSSTALK)
KEAGAN: That would have been the show.
OBEIDALLAH: But in a comedy club, it`s fine. In an audience of almost all white people at the GOP -- it`s like the old days, put a black guy and let`s make fun of him. And that was the only thing that I think was troubling. What`s the message it`s sending (inaudible)?
BEHAR: All right, should we change the topic?
ROB SHUTER, AOL POPEATER COLUMNIST: This guy was pulled off because he made jokes about Republicans. If he was making Barack jokes still, he`d still be on that.
OBEIDALLAH: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Thank you.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK. In other political drama, Jon Stewart appeared on Fox News Sunday and got into a heated argument with host Chris Wallace about whether or not there`s a liberal bias on "The Daily Show" and in mainstream media in general. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRIS WALLACE, HOST, FOX NEWS SUNDAY: You were not making a political comment.
JON STEWART, HOST, DAILY SHOW: You really think that`s a political comment?
WALLACE: Yes.
STEWART: You`re insane.
WALLACE: Really?
STEWART: Yes. Here`s the difference between you and I. I`m a comedian first. My comedy is informed by an ideological background. There`s no question about that. But the thing that you will never understand and the thing that in some respects conservative activists will never understand, is that Hollywood, yes, they`re liberal, but that`s not their primary motivating force. I`m not an activist. I`m a comedian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That`s two examples -- is it a genetic defect that they have no sense of humor?
OBEIDALLAH: It`s unreal that they can`t laugh at themselves. The party that is so much against regulation, (inaudible) regulation when you`re making fun of them. And on some level, Jon Stewart did a great job. He made Chris Wallace look like a human being for a couple of minutes in that interview instead of the smug pompous ass which he usually comes across as. So Jon was great. Jon was smart and I think funny.
BEHAR: I think Jon is basically bipartisan, because he`ll take on the Democrats also. Do you think he has a political agenda?
SHUTER: I think he`ll attack (ph) both sides, he`ll attack whatever he thinks is funny, what he thinks is unjust. Don`t mess with him, though. This guy is so smart. It doesn`t matter who you are, he`s going to win. So this was a mistake trying to fight with Jon.
BEHAR: There`s another clip I want to show you. He takes on Fox viewers, as well. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALLACE: I don`t think our viewers are the least bit disappointed with us. I think our viewers think finally they`re getting somebody who tells the other side of the story.
STEWART: Right. And in --
WALLACE: No, one more example.
STEWART: Who are the most consistently misinformed media viewers? The most consistently misinformed? Fox. Fox viewers, consistently. Every poll.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: All right, Johnny. It takes balls to go on Fox and say that their viewers are misinformed, doesn`t it? Wow, good for him.
And finally, "Transformers" director Michael Bay says the reason that Megan Fox was fired from the third installment of the franchise was because she compared him to Hitler in a 2009 interview. Here`s my question -- who the [EXPLETIVE DELETED] is Megan Fox?
OK, now what does -- OK. Here`s what Fox said at the time. This is what Megan Fox said, "He`s like Napoleon and he wants to create this insane, infamous madman reputation. He wants to be like Hitler on his sets, and he is."
OK, Rob, what makes Hitler the go-to guy? That makes all of these like, you know, a lot of the Jewish community get upset. What about him? Why is it Hitler?
SHUTER: He`s a troublesome character.
(LAUGHTER)
SHUTER: I never met him, but I hear he`s a very bad man.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: It`s fascinating that Michael finally let the cat out of the bag. In 2009 when she got dumped from the "Transformer" movies, she said it was creative differences. Now we know the truth.
BEHAR: But I mean, why not Stalin, who killed many more people, or Pol Pot? He`s not popular to go to.
KEAGAN: Hitler is like the hot one of the day. You know? Galiano did it, it seems that he`s --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I got in trouble with the ADL and Abe Foxman one time because I said that somebody was a Nazi. Whoever it was, I forget who it was. I think he`s dead now, whatever. And they got mad at me because you don`t just throw around Nazi or Hitler, because they were so horrendous to the Jews that if you do it like that, it minimizes. You see? That`s their point.
OBEIDALLAH: She used Napoleon, should we give her credit for that?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: OK, thank you, guys. And catch Dean Obeidallah in the off- Broadway political comedy show, which is incorrect English, "There Ain`t No Tea Party," Thursdays at the Midtown Theater in New York. We`ll be right back.
There isn`t.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: The sexual revolution of the `60s and `70s freed a generation of women from the traditional roles of sex, allowing them to speak up about what and who they wanted. It was free love for everyone. Me, I was married and missed the whole thing. And to this day, I resent it.
Here now to talk about women and to tell us whether or not sexual liberation is dead -- wow -- are Erica Jong. Her latest book is "Sugar in my Bowl: Real Women Write About Real Sex." Molly Jong-Fast, Erica`s daughter, and the author of "The Social Climber`s Handbook." And Dr. Jennifer Berman, director of the Berman Women`s Wellness Center. Welcome, ladies, to the show.
I missed it because I was married and I had a kid and everything. And it just went by.
ERICA JONG, AUTHOR: Oh, that`s a terrible thing.
BEHAR: I caught up when I hit 40, though.
JONG: That`s when I caught up also.
BEHAR: Oh, you did?
JONG: Because I married my first boyfriend, first lover.
MOLLY JONG-FAST, AUTHOR: And then her second.
BEHAR: Me too.
JONG: And then my second and then my third. And Molly does a great riff on it all.
BEHAR: For those of you out there who don`t know Erica`s book, Erica`s famous book, "Fear of Flying," which is not about turbulence, trust me. It`s about sex and the real -- the zipless blank --
(CROSSTALK)
JONG: It changed a lot of people`s lives because it gave women permission to have fantasies.
BEHAR: Yes.
JONG: I think. And psychiatrists used to give it out to their patients and say, see, it`s OK to have fantasies.
BEHAR: Yes.
JONG: So that was interesting. And it has had a lot of impact in many different societies.
BEHAR: I know. It`s probably written in dozens of language.
JONG: Dozens of languages. And that shocks me, because I thought it was a New York book and it turned out not to be.
BEHAR: No, it really resonated. The fact that everybody knows the title, even, even the kids know about it, it`s just fantastic. But you say that women are not as sexually liberated now as they were in the `70s.
JONG: Well, there`s been a backlash, and no generation of daughters wants to fight their mother`s battles. They want their own identity. They want something different.
BEHAR: Yes.
JONG-FAST: Also I think AIDS changed everything. You can`t have -- you couldn`t have the same level of freedom now because you have so many more diseases. You have so --
DR. JENNIFER BERMAN, BERMAN WOMEN`S WELLNESS CENTER: You have STDs, risk of AIDS. So it`s not that while access -- we have much more access than we did with the Internet, with, you know, texting and sexting and all that stuff.
BEHAR: What about that?
BERMAN: It`s easier to get from a distance, but fear of STDs, fear of AIDS make it -- make us less -- have sex with less abandon perhaps than in earlier generations.
BEHAR: What do you make of the fact that the Kardashians have a sex tape? Paris Hilton? If you want to be famous these days, you have to have a sex tape.
BERMAN: Btu having a sex tape with a partner is different than, you know --
JONG-FAST: I have to go on this. I don`t know anyone who has a sex tape. And I have to wonder about having a sex tape with a partner. I think you make a sex tape with the assumption that somebody`s going to get it, and you`re going to give it to someone in the media. Because the idea that you would make -- who would take that kind of risk of making a sex tape --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: A lot of people. That`s puritanical.
JONG-FAST: I think it`s crazy.
JONG: You`re the author of "They Had Sex So We Don`t Have To."
JONG-FAST: But it`s crazy to take that risk --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What does it mean, they had sex so we don`t have to?
JONG-FAST: My mother`s generation, there was the nakedness and Plato`s retreat and all this --
BEHAR: Did you do all of that, Erica?
JONG: Well, I have to say that I went to Plato`s retreat with Molly`s father. We refused --
JONG-FAST: It`s enough to just make you want to kill yourself right there.
JONG: We refused --
JONG-FAST: -- a threesome with a feminist author.
JONG: No, let`s not even talk about that.
(CROSSTALK)
JONG-FAST: That`s in my book. You want to never have sex ever again when you think about that. Your mother having a threesome with a feminist author who makes Andrea Dworkin look hot.
(CROSSTALK)
JONG: When we went to Plato`s retreat, we wore towels, and we carried notebooks like journalists.
BEHAR: I see.
JONG: We didn`t -- we were so uptight.
JONG-FAST: But what about the sex tapes you made?
JONG: We didn`t.
JONG-FAST: What? You didn`t make any sex tapes? .
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But today, you know, you can get -- for example in our day, Erica`s and mine, you couldn`t get -- nobody used a vibrator. We didn`t talk about it. Now you can buy them at Dwayne Reed (ph).
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: There is, Erica, I don`t know -- a heightened level -- maybe there was freedom, but there is much more of a feeling of empowerment, I think, that women have these days to feeling entitled to their sexuality. Entitled to their sexual response and sexual freedom and sexual sensations, into their later reproductive years and even menopause. Much more so than my mother`s generation, I think. And that`s something that I`ve really been sort of trying to pioneer is advocating for sexuality and sexual responsibility --
JONG: Jennifer, I don`t see that.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about men for a minute. Let`s talk about the men. Because the women, we know where we`re at, really. The men. What about this Weiner scandal? You know, he -- he basically resigned.
JONG-FAST: I think the problem with that is --
BEHAR: Is he a pervert? Is he mentally ill? Is he compulsive sexually? What is his problem?
JONG: He`s a sex addict.
BEHAR: He`s a sex addict? He`s not just a horny guy?
JONG: He`s a sex addict, and he`s in a bubble about the fact that everything that we do on the Internet is indelible. You can`t get rid of it.
JONG-FAST: But also, why so many pictures? Why not a few pictures? Why in the gym? At home? In --
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: You say why one more drink, it`s like an alcoholic. It`s the first drink -- it is an addiction.
JONG-FAST: But why didn`t he use the same pictures? Why did he have to take more pictures?
BERMAN: Because it`s more exciting. These people are thrill-seekers.
BEHAR: What about the narcissism?
BERMAN: There is narcissism, there`s addiction, there`s --
(CROSSTALK) -
BERMAN: There was an article in "Time" magazine, men who behave badly. Men in power, you know, create sort of this egotism where it requires -- the bar keeps getting raised. First it`s one picture, then it`s another picture, until he gets caught. And he does have a problem. You know --
BEHAR: He needs to find another job. I would suggest he change his name also.
JONG: The name is a real problem.
BEHAR: He has a real issue.
JONG: It is.
BEHAR: And how is he any different from a flasher on the subway, I`d like to know.
OK, we`re going to continue this in a minute. Hang on.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel. We`re talking about love, sex and sexual liberation. We were talking about Weiner. What about Schwarzenegger? Do you think he`ll ever -- is there any penalty for what he did?
JONG: None.
BEHAR: None.
JONG: Not for him. He`s a movie star, a former politician. He`s very rich.
JONG-FAST: I think it`s over for him. I think you can`t do that kind of thing. I mean, he`s never going to be able to -- he`s not going to be able to hold another office.
BERMAN: I think similar to Weiner, there is a sense which is part of this compulsion and disease, a complete lack of remorse. And it is sort of a sense of lack of superego, for lack of a better word, that they feel that they`re entitled to get what they want when they want, how they want, and the bar keeps getting raised.
JONG: They`re also very lazy. The house keepers. You don`t even have to go very far. You don`t even have to get in the car.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: In your house, in your face. I mean --
BEHAR: It`s the same with Weiner. He was lazy, too. He never left his house.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: The maid came in. You`re right, it`s the accessibility and laziness that causes all these problems.
What about Maria Shriver? I have a theory that she was under there somewhere, she knew it somewhere.
(CROSSTALK)
BERMAN: She`s a Kennedy. And he`s notorious. And a level of tolerance. And same with Strauss-Kahn. His wife admittedly says, you know, I knew sort of proudly he was a ladies man.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: With the French.
(CROSSTALK)
JONG: The women in France are beginning to get a little annoyed about this.
JONG-FAST: I think if you`re used to having men who are cheaters and who are like that, then you accept it. I think you have -- it is hereditary on some level, you live with that.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: He schtooped everybody, John Kennedy. If that ever happened these days--
JONG: Absolutely. But the press in those days never wrote about it.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That was the difference, but today they do.
So in this new book of yours, "Sugar in my Bowl: Real Women Write About Real Sex," you have all these women writing about -- and you have Liz Smith, who calls herself the thousand-year-old -- the 2,000-year-old gossip columnist. What did Liz Smith share with you about her sex life?
JONG: She wrote a wonderful, tender piece about the World War II era and her having sex with a first cousin.
(CROSSTALK)
JONG-FAST: Nothing more tender than having sex with a first cousin.
JONG: Well. But she evokes the World War II era.
JONG-FAST: Is that still illegal?
JONG: It`s very sweet -- no, it`s not illegal.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: No, it`s not illegal. Anyway, I have to go. But that was -- pick up the book. I read a lot of it and I really like it. Thanks, ladies and thanks for all of you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
