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Joy Behar Page
Casey`s Admirers; `Roseanne`s Nuts`
Aired July 14, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW while jurors, lawyers and Anthony family members are getting death threats, Casey Anthony is receiving money from admirers. Joy finds out what draws some people to criminals.
Then the always outspoken Roseanne Barr gives Joy her take on the Casey Anthony case.
Plus Miss South Carolina tells Joy how she shed nearly half her body weight on her way to becoming a beauty queen.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Even though Casey Anthony is the object of massive public outrage, she`s not without her admirers. In fact, some people are even sending her money.
Here now to discuss this is Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and marriage and family therapist. Bethany, there was a guy outside the courthouse asking Casey to marry him. What`s the attraction? She`s pretty. Is that it?
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Well I hope he gets a vasectomy before he does it. But in this case, he may be trying to inject himself into the notoriety of the case. You know, people fall in love with men and women behind bars for two main reasons -- three, actually. One is they feel if that person`s incarcerated that person will be sexually and emotionally available to them because they always know where that person is.
The second is --
BEHAR: Wait a minute. Wait a minute. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. How could they be sexually available to them if they`re incarcerated?
MARSHALL: They have the illusion that there`s no sex going on behind bars. It`s a delusion, ok?
BEHAR: Yes.
MARSHALLS: The second is that some of these admirers or benefactors were raised in environments where there was a lot of violence and abuse so the idea of power, sex, cruelty and violence are all fused and confused as if they`re one and the same.
And the third is that in some cases they take secret satisfaction in the perpetrator`s crimes. Maybe feeling that little Caylee Anthony had it coming to her --
BEHAR: Oh, my God.
MARSHALL: Or with the Menendez brothers -- with the Menendez brothers, maybe that there are bad mommies and daddies in the world and that they deserve to be punished.
BEHAR: I can see it with the Menendez situation. But to blame a child, how crazy do you have to be?
MARSHALL: Well, you know, I have a lot -- I do have patients come to my practice who have very deprecating attitudes towards children because, remember, babies are loved and admired and they get a lot of attention so these people are very jealous toward babies.
BEHAR: They`re jealous. Yes.
MARSHALL: So with Richard Ramirez, the night stalker, there was a woman who fell in love with him while he was behind bars and, you know, there were a lot of interviews of her and on some levels she was very deprecating towards other women so there was secret satisfaction in his crimes. Like -- the other women had it coming to them.
BEHAR: There`s lots of crazy people out there, Bethany. Stay right there. We`re going to talk some more in a minute.
But I want to turn to somebody who had personal experience, starting a relationship with a prisoner. Tim McDonald, he met and married a woman serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole. Now, Tim, you started a relationship with your wife while she was locked up for murder. What`s the appeal there? Tell me.
TIM MCDONALD, MARRIED A PRISONER: Hello, Joy, how are you doing?
BEHAR: Ok.
MCDONALD: You know. The appeals at this point, my wife just filed her pro se application for new evidence. That was last month. So it will be some months before that goes through the courts.
BEHAR: What was the attraction exactly though?
MCDONALD: Why does a person who is free get involved or marry a person in prison, I`ll have to add that I think the male situations are going to be different than female situations.
BEHAR: Why?
MCDONALD: Men and women. In my case, of course, I was doing Internet research on prisons and prison culture for my workplace. But I`d have to say my interest in Deon, my wife, peaked over the children because my famous words -- any woman working is hard as she was to raise children from a prison cell, deserved help, and I guess, I`m it.
BEHAR: Ok. Let me stop you there for a second because your story was featured on Investigation Discovery. Let`s listen to your wife, Deon.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DEON MCDONALD, WIFE OF TIM MCDONALD: He visited a lot and me talking to him made me feel secure with him. Because everything I told him he didn`t run away from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I know that you think she`s innocent but a lot of people think she`s a murderer. Does it ever cross your mind that you may be married to a killer? And do you care?
MCDONALD: Yes, I do believe I would care. I reserved judgment for a year and then, after I decided she wasn`t guilty, I spent another year validating -- I think I`m pretty reasonably secure in understanding what actually took place the night of the crime. She didn`t kill anybody. An abusive boyfriend killed somebody and it was accidental. I`m confident that I know the case.
BEHAR: All right. Now, you know, the other thing about your story today, Tim, is that I understand you wanted to write to Casey Anthony. What did you want to write to her about?
MCDONALD: No. Well, you know, I identify -- identified her with my wife. They had similar backgrounds and a similar situation of being lynched in advance of trial; that hatred and that public outcry. And I felt like, maybe I should write her and say, I`ve been through it. My wife`s been through it, hang in there. I also knew that because of the notoriety she would get plenty of mail. She didn`t have to get anything from me.
BEHAR: I see. So you feel sorry for her because she had so much notoriety and that people were angry and hating her? Is that what I hear? Would you like her to move in with you? She may need a place to go.
MCDONALD: Well, listen, I`m online for a roommate right now but I`m going to do interviews before anyone moves in with me. I`m very cautious about who I live with, thank you. But you know, it`s feeling -- you have to clarify the difference between feeling sorry, maybe believing somebody - - in Casey Anthony`s -- why was she being lynched? Why was she being convicted ahead the trial and why, by people that didn`t know her?
It took me years to find out what happened in my wife`s case. I`m still learning what actually took place the night of that crime that she was involved with.
BEHAR: Ok.
MCDONALD: Why do people -- I don`t judge.
BEHAR: You don`t judge. Well, I think people -- they were putting pieces together and they didn`t like the way the case was going. They didn`t think -- she didn`t report the missing child for 31 days. She was out partying during that time so people did not like her. They don`t like her. Whether she murdered the child or not is almost irrelevant to the fact that she`s not a very nice person.
MCDONALD: Isn`t that called lynching?
BEHAR: Well, maybe. Maybe. But thank you anyway for sharing your story with me, Tim. Good luck to you.
MCDONALD: Thank you.
BEHAR: Let me get back to psychoanalyst Bethany Marshall. What do you think of Tim`s story? What did you think of that?
MARSHALL: I read part of his statement in his story and he believes that his wife was raised in poverty, turned to a life of crime because she had no other choice. She didn`t commit the crime. She was abused by the system. It sounds to me a lot similar to Casey Anthony in that I wonder if his wife has lied to him and manipulated him and he`s allowed himself to believe her story?
Just like with Casey Anthony, she lied so prolifically to so many people around her. That`s one similarity.
The second is how offender-identified he is. He believes that the system is at fault, but not once does he ever blame his wife for having gotten herself into the predicament.
And the third thing is rescue fantasy, Joy. Whenever somebody has such rescue fantasy, I always wonder what is going on in their life that they cannot rescue themselves from.
And then also, you know, if he`s in love with a woman in jail and he`s living an outside life, he never has to test out his sexuality and masculinity as a man. He doesn`t have to have a full sexual and emotional relationship with her.
And I would wonder if he was my patient and I instructed him to go out and date, would he have crippling anxiety, difficulty or conflicts in establishing appropriate sexual relationships with women? Or would he gravitate towards the wounded bird that he could rescue in order to have a grandiose feeling of power and satisfaction?
BEHAR: Do you think this marriage that he has would work if she was free from prison? I mean --
MARSHALL: You know what, I asked myself that question before this segment. That`s a great question. I imagine when she gets out of jail she won`t need him anymore. Ok? She may have other -- if she gets out. I understand she`s in prison for life.
But how else is she going to manipulate him? What new form are the lies going to take? If she had a history of drug and alcohol abuse would she turn back to that life? Then, would there be a new iteration in his wish to rescue her and the more he rescues her, the more powerful he feels?
BEHAR: Ok. Always a pleasure to speak to you, Bethany; thank you very much.
MARSHALL: Thank you.
BEHAR: We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Roseanne Barr went from stand-up comic to sitcom star from Salt Lake City to Hollywood. And now, she`s a Hawaiian nut farmer. Oh yes, with a reality show. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You`re making it sound like you come out here and farm all by yourself and plant the trees.
ROSEANNE BARR, ACTRESS: I do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, you do this like -- I`m a farmer. I`m going to do that to farm --
BARR: I am a farmer. Farmer, have you ever heard the term "farm hand?"
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
BARR: Ok.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So you have a bunch of farm hands that do everything?
BARR: I only have three of them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh ok and what do you do exactly?
BARR: I boss them around and tell them what to do.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Ok. Well, there you go. I like this --
BARR: That`s my job description.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here with me now is actress, comedian and star of her new reality show, "Roseanne`s Nuts", Roseanne Barr.
BARR: Hi. Hi Joy.
BEHAR: Welcome, is that your cute son?
BARR: Yes, that`s my big son. I have two sons.
BEHAR: What`s this one`s name?
BARR: This one`s name is Jake, he`s 33.
BEHAR: This is from your first marriage?
BARR: Yes. From my first marriage, my first ex-husband. And then I`ve got -- I have -- I had one child on my own before I was married.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARR: And then I had three when I was married to Bill and then I had my fifth child with my third husband whom I also divorced.
BEHAR: I know. You`re not good on marriage.
BARR: No, I`m not a good -- I`m not a suitable partner, really. But my boyfriend, Johnny, is kind of like my mirror image and so -- and he`s on the show.
BEHAR: He calls you a bitch on the show.
BARR: Yes, well we call -- you know we`re always fighting.
BEHAR: Today on "The View" I asked you about that and you --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: What did you say?
BEHAR: -- you said, well, sometime -- I asked you and you say he called you a bitch and you said, well, sometimes I am a bitch but you didn`t elaborate.
BARR: That`s right.
No I am a big bitch. Oh I`m a big bossy bitch all the time. And people should say that I say when you`re acting inappropriate. Even if you`re famous and stuff they should go -- you`re acting like a big, bossy bitch. And my family is not afraid to bring that to my attention.
BEHAR: Good, that`s good, or else they would go crazy.
BARR: Well, it`s kind of good because I go wow, I`m getting out there.
BEHAR: Yes.
But I mean I have this child that says, you say bitch like it`s a bad thing.
BARR: Right, exactly.
BEHAR: Exactly.
BARR: Exactly.
BEHAR: It`s not a bad thing.
BARR: No, it`s not.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARR: It`s not.
BEHAR: So I understand that you --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: The other names --
BEHAR: Yes, right.
BARR: -- they call me they are not --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Nutty.
BARR: -- so flattering. They all call me all the names; all my kids, everybody who knows me.
BEHAR: Your kids call you the "C" word?
BARR: No.
BEHAR: That`s over the top.
BARR: No, they don`t.
BEHAR: All right.
So, I hear that you`re a big HLN fan and you`ve been watching the Casey Anthony show?
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: Oh, my God. Don`t get me started with that. I know she got a second season. Did you hear that? They`re giving -- they`re giving the trial, they renewed it. It did great numbers. But -- yes. I got like -- I`m ashamed to say, I got sucked into that mess.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARR: And I was -- quite angry at the outcome.
BEHAR: Were you?
BARR: And I started Twittering and I didn`t stop for 14 hours. I was just laying in bed Twittering.
BEHAR: Did you go blind?
BARR: Almost. Because I was doing it on my phone and it`s like -- yes.
BEHAR: Yes, yes, yes.
So I mean what were you Twittering? And I have a couple --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: I was mad that she got off.
BEHAR: I know. Well, but they couldn`t prove the case.
BARR: Oh they proved it 100 times. I told you, don`t get me started. They proved it enough for 14 jurors.
BEHAR: Here`s one of your tweets that I was fascinated by.
BARR: Oh, oh.
BEHAR: Jose Baez`s kids, your tips to them --
BARR: Oh no. That was -- you`re not setting it up right.
BEHAR: Oh go ahead.
BARR: His daughter, 13 years old, which, that`s already a brat when you`re 13. She goes on Facebook and goes that -- my dad is the law. You know because he got a murder offer and that made me mad and so I said, you should be ashamed of your dad.
BEHAR: You said, "Your dad is a fat prick, who purposely nullified a jury to help a murderer get away with killing a 2-year-old baby."
You really think he`s fat?
BARR: Yes. He is fat. That`s like the only thing you care about.
BEHAR: I don`t think he`s that fat.
BARR: No, he`s fat. He`s really fat. I think he`s fat, yes.
BEHAR: You have tweeted --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: He has jowls hanging over his shirt.
BEHAR: Well -- but do you --
BARR: That`s fat.
BEHAR: I guess.
BARR: I mean, when I do that they call me "fat."
BEHAR: They called you fat a lot.
BARR: I know, I`ve had to take the brunt of all the fat jokes on earth for years.
BARR: Did it hurt your feelings when you -- when you were called "fat"?
BARR: No, it didn`t hurt my feelings. I thought it was pretty hilarious. And you know being a comic, you know how it is, Joy.
BEHAR: Yes.
BARR: You`re sitting there in the club and you know, hecklers they say the worse -- they say worse things to you than your own kids.
BEHAR: Yes. Even your ex-husbands.
BARR: Yes. So you`re used to it. You`re prime, Joy.
BEHAR: Well, they -- they pick on women`s looks because they know that it will hurt our feelings.
BARR: Well, they hope it will.
BEHAR: They hope.
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean, when I used to have a radio show they hated my politics so they would call in and say you`re ugly. And I`d say, "I`m on the radio, you don`t even know what I look like."
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: You know.
BARR: And also the other thing they do is your -- they pick at your voice, because you and I we have -- we have a voice. So they pick at that. And your weight, you know, and just incidental things that you just kind of got to get a thick skin.
BEHAR: And you`ve developed that?
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: Enough.
BARR: I kind of like -- if they`re going to call me out like that then I can call them out, too. So it kind of gives you a bit of a cloak of vulnerability that makes it possible for you to be a big bitch.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s true but --
BARR: You know, it kind of helps.
BEHAR: But did Jose Baez call you "fat"?
BARR: No, I called him fat.
BEHAR: I know I`m just going into --
BARR: Do you like Jose Baez? You`re on here every day bitching about the guy. The way you`re talking and now you`re acting like you`re his --
BEHAR: No, no. I -- I`ve tried to stay somewhat neutral on this.
BARR: I`m over it. I`ve stopped talking about it all because --
BEHAR: Yes.
BARR: -- I`m trying to promote a show and I did not want to -- aside from you getting me going on it.
BEHAR: I`m sorry.
BARR: I did not want to like mix up that I`m talking about this terrible thing instead of my show or people are mixing up that I`m using the show to promote my show.
BEHAR: No.
BARR: You know, using that terrible thing to promote my show. I`m mad when justice fails and that`s all I have to say. And I said I`m not going to say anymore.
BEHAR: Ok.
I don`t really think that people think you would use it because you don`t have a reputation for somebody who -- first of all you`re rich. So you don`t really need the money.
BARR: Right.
BEHAR: And that`s a beautiful thing to go out there with.
BARR: You know, Joy, that`s the beautiful thing of my whole reality show because -- speaking of that, "Roseanne`s Nuts" is about me starting a nut business and it`s going to be a Paul Newman type of nut business. Because you`re right, I don`t need any more money. I`m not all that greedy. But I`d like to start a business that, like, provides jobs and, also that can do some charity work.
BEHAR: That`s great.
BARR: That`s kind of what I thought. Use TV for a good thing.
BEHAR: Right. I think that --
BARR: And these shows, Joy, like Nancy who I love with all the trials and the criminals, I think they should stop televising murder trials because I think that`s not good. And I think, instead, she should and you should and all cable folk, start going out there and bitching about people who are wrongly imprisoned. I think you should --
BEHAR: The Innocent Project?
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: We`ll have much more with Roseanne. Sit tight. We have a little more to go here.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Roseanne Barr who`s bitching about being old.
BARR: I look at myself and I`m like, oh, man, it goes fast.
BEHAR: It goes very fast. I mean, you know, life`s a bitch and then you die, as they say?
BARR: That`s right.
BEHAR: Now, you know, I want to talk to you about being famous because I was reading the article that you wrote in "New York Magazine", which is a fabulous article.
BARR: Thank you.
BEHAR: Google that or something. It`s not on the stands now. It`s from May.
BARR: It was a big thing. It was a trendy, number-one thing all over the world.
BEHAR: Yes. Because it was a very, very well-done article --
BARR: Thank you.
BEHAR: And you say that fame drives you nuts.
BARR: Yes, it does.
BEHAR: Why did fame drive you nuts?
BARR: It drove me nuts and it drives everybody nuts because it`s so incredibly isolating and you just like lose track with real human beings and then you just are surrounded by vampires and ghouls.
BEHAR: In the article you say that you were addicted to fame?
BARR: Yes, I was addicted.
BEHAR: Tell me about that.
BARR: Well, once you get famous, like, you start like being afraid you`re going to lose it. So you`re like, oh, no, you`re always looking for evidence that you got to keep all that stuff. And, you know, I didn`t really worry about that too much until I could no longer get the best table in a restaurant.
BEHAR: Tell me about that.
BARR: Oh, my God, that pissed me off. That was it.
BEHAR: What happened? You had slipped on the ratings and that`s what --
BARR: As soon as I went out of the top ten on the "Roseanne Show", I couldn`t get a table to save my life.
BEHAR: And so what did you do at one restaurant. Tell the story -- it`s great.
BARR: It will take a long time.
BEHAR: No, it`s not. I can tell it for you in two seconds.
BARR: You tell it.
BEHAR: You called up the restaurant, you had someone call the restaurant and said that Nicole Kidman and Tom Cruise were coming.
BARR: Because they said they didn`t -- first they called for me and they said we don`t have room. And I was shocked because they always made room for me. But they didn`t have room when I wasn`t at top ten so I had my assistant call back and say it was Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman. They were on their way over there.
BEHAR: And they got the reservation.
BARR: They got it for eight people. And then, I had her call two minutes before and canceled the reservation and say, Roseanne Barr`s going to be taking Tom Cruise and Nicole Kidman down to Denny`s on Sunset. I was bitter. I`m bitter. I don`t know.
BEHAR: But, you know, I love the way you get back at people that you really want to kill.
BARR: I know. Well, I don`t do that anymore. Now I put it all on the iron wood trees because getting back at people and being real bitter, it`s not so good when you`re a grandma. So I try to take all the bitterness and take it out on the weed trees that I`m patting down in Hawaii.
BEHAR: Beat the weeds.
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: But it said in the article, that day when you didn`t get that reservation you were no longer addicted to fame. It sort of broke the spell?
BARR: It did break the spell.
BEHAR: Because why -- because you had to face reality, that you`re just not going to be famous forever and ever at the same level.
BARR: Yes, kind of. Looking at it like, it was -- break the spell is a good way to put it, because you are under a spell. I mean it`s not just you, but it`s the whole world you`ve woven around you. A web of 200 to 300 people who are like really depending on you for their job so, of course, they`re going to be nice to you. I thought, you know -- you know what I mean?
BEHAR: Yes. They are nice to you because you have a show. They invite you to parties because you have a show. Is that true in New York? I don`t think it`s as true here?
BARR: I don`t think it is either.
BEHAR: Ok. Don`t go away. Roseanne is back with me after this break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARR: He`s like everybody else in my family. Nobody really fits in the family because we`re always fighting.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let`s face it, she`s challenging.
BARR: In what way am I challenging?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You are a total bitch sometimes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Well, that was a --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: -- Roseanne and her boyfriend, Johnny, from her new reality show, "Roseanne`s Nuts." You know, let`s talk about men for a second.
BARR: OK.
BEHAR: This one seems to be working. Do you know there`s a story about a woman who cut her husband`s penis off again.
BARR: I saw that in the news. It was awful.
BEHAR: Lorena did that back in the day. And this is the first copycat I`ve heard of.
BARR: It`s crazy. It`s not right. I`m against that.
BEHAR: Of course, we are. She was wild. But she might get away with it because for some reason, if a man did something bad to a woman like that, he might be in more trouble. Why is that?
BARR: I don`t know if that`s true. I think anybody that is a crazy son of a gun like that, they should take care of all of them, male or female. They need to get sent to another planet, people like that.
BEHAR: How bad can he be? Why can`t you just nag him to death?
BARR: Yes, like we do.
BEHAR: Right. Like we do. But marriage is hard.
BARR: Yes. It`s hard.
BEHAR: It`s very hard to do.
BARR: I`m not good. I`m not good. I just care about myself. I don`t really -- I`m serious. Like, you know, I`m like -- like the only reason I probably ever got with anybody, when I`m real honest -- you know, when you`re like real honest -- therapy and stuff, you know -- I just want somebody to sleep in front of me at the door so the monster gets him first.
BEHAR: You want a bodyguard.
BARR: Yes. I want somebody to be in between me and the bad stuff. But a guy gets tired of that.
BEHAR: They do.
BARR: Richard Jenny (ph), who was a very funny comedian, you know who he was, he passed away. He used to say -- I`m looking for a woman who will just talk about me.
BARR: That`s what I want, too.
BEHAR: So but does your --
BARR: It pisses me off that they have their own thoughts and stuff, and they just want to have their own thing, and it`s not about me and it makes me mad.
BEHAR: It gets boring for you.
BARR: It is. Totally boring.
BEHAR: Does Johnny do that?
BARR: No. But Johnny is like -- I actually after eight years, I don`t hate the guy, which I can`t believe.
BEHAR: Phenomenal.
BARR: And I care about what he thinks. Like I`m always like, I wonder what Johnny thinks about this, anything, like a news story or whatever. I`d like to get Johnny`s take on this. And I`m like, good lord, you`ve grown and then I like go -- I`ve really grown.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Maybe he`s your soulmate. Like you know--
BARR: He hates that.
BEHAR: Like Governor Sanford, remember he found his soulmate in Argentina.
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: Johnny hates all those words. Soulmate, he goes no, don`t say, don`t ever use the word soulmate.
BEHAR: Really?
BARR: He hates all that.
BEHAR: Why is that?
BARR: Because he thinks it`s a bunch of BS. And it`s like we get along, we have a nice thing, we get along, leave it alone don`t talk about it so much.
BEHAR: How is the sex?
BARR: Soulmate. Well, you know, it is kind of embarrassing, but I`m glad you asked.
(LAUGHTER)
BARR: We`re very happy and very suited to each other in every kind of way, and I enjoy his company in every possible way I could.
BEHAR: Really? So you`re still active in that department?
BARR: Well, you know, he wants -- I shouldn`t say this but you know how men are, and you know how old menopausal women are. So you try to like be nice and do stuff they want you to do, but I mean, you know, come on.
BEHAR: Viagra is killing post-menopausal women.
BARR: I know. It`s terrible.
BEHAR: They never stop.
BARR: That`s what I said. There should be a law against -- that`s what`s wrong with the world right now is old men on Viagra doing what they shouldn`t be doing and doing it for too damn long. Because you know what? Nobody really wants to have sex with an old man, am I right?
BEHAR: Well, it depends on how much money he has, I think. But not me, but a lot of women feel that way. Not me. I am not -- I like younger guys. But a lot of girls like an old guy when they have the cash.
BARR: Well, that`s true.
BEHAR: Remember that Nicole what`s her name? Anna Nicole Smith? She married that old, old guy.
BARR: Oh, she deserved every dime of that.
BEHAR: I know she did, for what she had to do.
BARR: And they took it away from her, too. He left her something like $50 million or something.
BEHAR: It`s not enough.
BARR: She worked for every penny of that money. Right, joy?
BEHAR: On her knees.
BARR: That`s right.
BEHAR: God. All right. Let`s see. Are you going to marry this guy or no?
BARR: No, he won`t marry me. So I`m like over it.
BEHAR: Why, do you want to?
BARR: I did for a while say do you want to get married? And he`s like, I`m a hippy. He`s like I`m old. He`s never married, he has a daughter though, and he had a long-time relationship. But he`s like, you know, I`m just never going to stand up in front of a bunch of people and like do that blubbering act.
BEHAR: I agree with that. You don`t get married in front of people. It`s so embarrassing to take your vows while people are watching?
BARR: That`s the part I like. I like the wedding part where you wear the dress and you make the plans and the whole thing. It`s the after-the- wedding stuff I`m no good at.
BEHAR: What do you think would change, what would change?
BARR: I don`t know. I don`t really -- the idea of living with the guy, that`s not as exciting as like the wedding.
BEHAR: No, that`s true. What about your previous husbands? When you think back on all your husbands --
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: What can you say good about each one of them?
BARR: That I`m divorced from them. That`s the best possible thing I could say for either of us. I`m sure they`re relieved to not be my husband anymore.
BEHAR: You think so?
BARR: I`m no day at the beach. Let`s just put it like that.
BEHAR: What about Tom Arnold? He had a nice ride there for two years with you.
BARR: Yeah, two years, we were married two years. And, Joy, they were the happiest, most wonderful two years that any lady could ever dream of.
BEHAR: You say that with such sincerity.
BARR: And I mean every word.
BEHAR: And what about the -- Ben, he was eight years, right?
BARR: Yeah, he was eight years of hell.
BEHAR: How did that work out?
BARR: No, I`m kidding. None of them like me anymore. It`s not easy to be married to me, and you know, I just wish them all the best. They tried but no guy can really take it. Let`s be real. Let`s just be real.
BEHAR: Well, partly they didn`t have any money, these guys. You had the money.
BARR: I`ve always had the money.
BEHAR: That can be hard. I mean, I believe Phyllis Diller--
BARR: Hard on the guy.
BEHAR: -- talks about that, how she had the money, and then the guy doesn`t step up and he feels bad. But see, I don`t find that in my own relationship.
BARR: That`s cool.
BEHAR: If a guy is -- what`s the word, substantially virile, they don`t care about that.
BARR: Wow. I think I agree.
BEHAR: Right? It`s like when they`re insecure little jerks, then they worry. Oh, she`s got more money--
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: I think sometimes it matters. Sometimes it rears its ugly head.
BEHAR: Why? What`s the difference?
BARR: Because things can be unequal in a lot of ways. You know? And I try to have empathy for that.
BEHAR: Well, if the guy is working, he has a job, and you happen to have more money than he does, I don`t really see the problem. It`s when a guy is a lazy cuss and doesn`t want to work, then the thing starts to unravel.
BARR: Well, it can unravel, if you like, I think if you don`t like really keep up with like, being able to be honest and like, really forthright with that person, that`s the real connection that, if that gets messed with, you know, then all other things enter into it.
BEHAR: Did you ever go into marriage counseling with any of these?
BARR: Yes, I did. But I just lied.
BEHAR: You lied?
BARR: Yes.
BEHAR: Because if you tell the truth, that`s the end of the marriage.
BARR: It`s never good to tell the truth, no, is it?
BEHAR: I know. Because you can say --
(CROSSTALK)
BARR: Not in a marriage.
BEHAR: You know--
BARR: Like I secretly hate you? That`s just nothing that you can say in marriage counseling that will help.
BEHAR: But people do say things like -- he`s terrible -- he doesn`t wash the dishes. He never helps me with the kids. Sometimes I really hate him, and then the guy says, wow, she really does hate me and that`s the end of the marriage. And so I don`t know that it works that well.
BARR: I don`t really know. I`m not really one for self-reflection. I`m more narcissistic, and I just go about this deep, really.
BEHAR: Have you ever been in therapy?
BARR: Of course, are you kidding me? I`ve never not been in therapy. I thought you knew that. I started when I was 6.
BEHAR: 6?
BARR: Six, I got sent to my first shrink.
BEHAR: Why?
BARR: Because I was, you know, a difficult child.
BEHAR: In what way?
BARR: Well, I was smart and it was Utah and I was a girl.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You`re Jewish? I know you are Jewish.
BARR: Yes. And I`m Jewish.
BEHAR: But were they raising you as a Jew in Utah?
BARR: Yes, I was raised as an orthodox Jew/Mormon. You know -- I know it`s crazy--
BEHAR: I never heard that.
BARR: But you know who else? Chelsea--
BEHAR: A lot of wives who--
BARR: Chelsea Handler is also Jewish and a Mormon.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: She is and a Mormon? Wow.
BARR: It`s like the new chic thing, with Mitt Romney and the whole-- that play, I can`t remember, "The book of Mormon," was that the best play? I heard you say--
BEHAR: I loved it.
BARR: It was rad, it was fantastic.
BEHAR: It was so good. What did you say this morning, you said you had news in other words, swag?
BARR: Swaaaag? That`s what my son taught me.
BEHAR: So your kids are doing very nicely, aren`t they?
BARR: Thank god.
BEHAR: So see, Roseanne, even though you put yourself down all those years and you said your kids were neglected, they turned out fine.
BARR: You know, it was just hard when I got really busy. When you`ve got little kids and you`re working 16 hours a day as a lot of mothers these days know, I mean, something`s going to give, and something did, and then you`re spending 15 years like trying to go, you know, tie them up in the basement and slap some sense into them. And that`s what I did and it worked.
BEHAR: OK. I have to say before we go that I really like your reality show very much.
BARR: Oh, thanks, Joy. Thank you.
BEHAR: It`s very funny and very endearing, and you can watch "Roseanne`s Nuts" Wednesdays at 9:00 p.m. on Lifetime. We`ll be right back. Thanks for doing this.
BARR: Thank you, honey.
BEHAR: Loved seeing you.
BARR: Love seeing you too.
BEHAR: Move to New York!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Look at my feet. Look at my --
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That`s the tempo. OK. One and two and one and two and --
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I need a break.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK, why don`t you just watch me and Louie. Louie, front and center. Grayson, music.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: That was Margaret Cho in Lifetime Network`s "Drop Dead Diva." She is a very funny actress and comedian, and she is here with me now. Welcome, Margaret.
MARGARET CHO, COMEDIAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: You`re always dancing. You like to dance, don`t you?
CHO: I love to dance. Now I started pole dancing and booty clap in Atlanta.
BEHAR: How does that work?
CHO: Booty clap -- well, it`s this school. It`s called Vertical Joes and you go and it`s a real stripper school. And they ask me there like, are you going to put together a routine that you are going to do at a club? I was just like, no, I just want to get fit. And they`re like, OK, do you require daycare, because we do have a childcare center on site. It was so amazing. So I did pole dancing, ballroom.
BEHAR: You did "Dancing with the Stars," and what was the thing about how everybody got the runs before they have to go out there? Is that true?
CHO: Totally.
BEHAR: From the nerves.
CHO: Well, no, because Audrina Partridge (ph) got everybody some kind of disease. She got sick and then everybody got sick, so it was dancing with the SARS. We were all really, really sick.
BEHAR: Oh, my God. So it`s not nerves. It was actually a bacteria.
CHO: It was some kind of bacterial -- it was just some weird thing, but we all got it. If one person goes down, everybody goes, because we`re all in such close quarters. It`s like big brother.
BEHAR: The thought of Donny and Marie in the bathroom, I can`t handle it. During the break we were talking about stand-up. Do you have stage fright at all?
CHO: Sometimes. It depends. If I go a really long time without being on stage, then I do, and that`s why I don`t let that long -- that much time pass.
BEHAR: Did you have it in the beginning?
CHO: Yes. I was so terrified and I was so young. I was like 14 or 15 at these clubs.
BEHAR: What did you have to talk about? My years in utero?
CHO: I was talking a lot about my mom and I was talking about my family and growing up, and that was such a fresh experience but it was also really, really scary.
BEHAR: Your mother is fascinating to me. She`s your main character.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: You have got that piece of material there, baby, for the rest of your life.
CHO: She`s just the voice of my Asianness and she`s sort of the voice of whatever is ancient in me, so she`s always there.
BEHAR: What has she said to you lately?
CHO: She`s just like very much about like -- just always with the mass e-mails and -- like but when -- she was like so cheap growing up, all of her advice was really strange, like we could never have glue or tape or anything. She was like, why don`t you use a little bit of rice and you just press together. You don`t need to have glue or tape -- just use a little bit of rice. So embarrassing.
BEHAR: Rice as glue.
CHO: Right.
BEHAR: That`s very interesting.
CHO: Just use a little bit of rice.
BEHAR: It`s funny, because you do her so well, and you get away with it because you`re Asian. Right?
CHO: Oh yeah.
BEHAR: I know a couple of comedians who shall be nameless who went on television and did a little Chinese thing, and they got into a lot of trouble with the Chinese community.
CHO: Right. Well, this is -- it would be weird if my mother had a British accent. It`s real. It`s who she is, it`s my life, and I`m just talking about her as she is. But I think being a woman of color, I could kind of do whatever I want.
BEHAR: You can do an Asian.
CHO: Oh, yes. I feel like I can sort of represent all minorities in a sense, or talk about it.
BEHAR: Really?
CHO: I think so. Yes, I think so.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
CHO: I can talk about it. Just because I have the perspective of the other, and I`m coming at it from another. Because I`m also queer, bisexual, I am definitely politically progressive. So there is a lot of outsider qualities that I think I have.
BEHAR: Are you happy -- you must be happy about the New York state law?
CHO: Oh, I`m so excited.
BEHAR: About gays getting married now. It`s very nice, it`s lovely.
CHO: It`s thrilling. Are you going to preside over weddings?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: That I`m now going to be the judge in question here.
CHO: I think you should be -- I think you should be marrying people. I think people should definitely seek us out, and we should be marrying lots of couples here in New York.
BEHAR: I`d be happy to do it. I think I`ll marry Rob Shuter -- I won`t marry him, I`ll marry him and his friend.
CHO: Beautiful.
BEHAR: And his boyfriend, yes.
CHO: What you`re doing is you`re creating families, and that`s powerful and I think that would be really meaningful to the community for us to do that.
BEHAR: But you`re married to a man?
CHO: Yes. Right. He`s great. I`ve been married to him, we`ve been married since 2003, we`ve been together since the `90s. It`s been a long time. It`s great.
BEHAR: You often talk about how you have an open marriage.
CHO: Yes.
BEHAR: But that doesn`t always work with people. Why does yours work?
CHO: I think mine works because I went into it with that. I went into it open. I went into -- we both went into it open. He always knew that I have a different side to my sexuality, that I like to be with women and I need that part of myself. So I think there`s a lot of understanding and a lot of communication.
BEHAR: What does your mother think about all that?
CHO: I don`t know -- I tried it one time. Didn`t stick. But you know I can understand -- not like rice. It`s very sticky. You don`t have to have glue or tape, just a little bit of rice.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So she`s -- what about your dad. How does he feel about it?
CHO: My father has always been so supportive of gays and lesbians because he owned a book store in the gay neighborhood of San Francisco, which is a huge -- that`s saying a lot.
BEHAR: The Castro district?
CHO: It was the Polk (ph) district, which was the even gayer part. This was the community that was really affected by AIDS in the `70s and `80s. And so he lost so many friends to AIDS, and so he`s always been very supportive of gay rights and gay causes, and an insider in that way.
BEHAR: Yes. The last thing I wanted to talk to you about is the gay pride parade that you do in San Diego. You`re the -- what?
CHO: The grand marshal.
BEHAR: The grand marshal. Do your parents go with you on that thing?
CHO: Yes. They`ll be there.
BEHAR: And what is a Cho ho (ph)?
CHO: A Cho ho (ph) -- they are some people who are fans of mine who are excited to like, hang out, and we`re all going to be marching together. So we`ll be Cho hos (ph) all together.
BEHAR: And when is that?
CHO: That is Saturday.
BEHAR: This coming Saturday.
CHO: This coming Saturday.
BEHAR: OK. I will look forward to seeing that on television. Are we going to be able to see it? Because I can`t get to San Diego.
CHO: Yes, yes, for sure.
BEHAR: OK. Thanks, Margaret, for doing this. You can catch Margaret Cho in season three of "Drop Dead Divas" Sunday at 9:00 p.m. on Lifetime. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Three years ago Bree Boyce was a 334-pound deli worker who felt like a misfit. Today she is Miss South Carolina. She is with me now. Congratulations, Bree, to you.
BREE BOYCE, MISS SOUTH CAROLINA: Thank you, Joy. I`m so excited to be with you.
BEHAR: Quite an accomplishment. How did you lose all that weight? Tell our audience how you did it.
BOYCE: Before I answer that, on behalf of the Miss America family, I wanted to thank you for doing a job well done at Miss America last year judging. So we were just excited to have you there last year.
But I lost the weight the good old-fashioned way. I wanted to get healthy. I went to the doctor and I had been having many knee (ph) problems and he just looked at me and he told me it has to come off, the weight has to come off. Your body cannot take it. And I`m only 17 years old sitting in a doctor`s office having this horrific conversation as a teen. And I knew at that moment I wanted to make a change, so I made a change for the good. And I educated myself and I learned all of the nutritious facts that I needed to know and physical activity part of it.
It`s just so important. And I think people need to make sure that they`re getting fun and exciting exercises in because you don`t want to feel the need that, oh, here comes another day at the gym. It must be exciting and fun and something that you enjoy to do to keep up with it for the rest of your life.
BEHAR: That`s true. You have to like a sport of some sort, which I don`t.
BOYCE: Yes. I love zumba (ph). It`s a dance class. I can`t dance, Joy, but I do love -- I love to pretend like I know how to dance.
BEHAR: How about bowling? I think I could bowl. Should I try bowling? What do you think?
BOYCE: Yes, you could bowl. Yes, I definitely think you should take it up.
BEHAR: What do you make of this suggestion by this Harvard pediatric professor that says that severely overweight kids should be taken away from their parents for their own safety? What do you make of that?
BOYCE: Well, I think that is completely crazy, because as humans, we should take responsibility for ourselves and for our children. Our school systems should take responsibility as well, because the things that they`re feeding our kids are horrific. There are things that kids are eating that are so high in caloric intake that they`re not getting enough physical activity to burn it off. And so many processed foods, and the schools aren`t really taking notice of that.
But kids are in school eight hours a day. They should be aware of what they`re feeding the kids and how they`re educating them on their health.
BEHAR: Absolutely right.
BOYCE: Just like math and science, they`re taking that through the rest of their lives, and health is a big, important issue that kids should be educated on.
BEHAR: Yes, I think so. And I think it`s a little bit severe to be taking kids away from their families. Thank you very much. Again, congratulations to you, Bree.
BOYCE: Thank you so much, Joy. Thank you.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you all for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
