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Octomom Sets the Record Straight; Murder Next Door
Aired July 21, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, the octomom is finally paying Joy a visit just as she finds herself embroiled in controversy. Did Nadya Suleman really say she`s disgusted by babies? We have the tape and octomom`s response.
Then, Joy`s favorite forensic psychiatrist breaks down the day`s most shocking headlines including what may have driven a Florida teen to brutally murder his parents.
Plus, actress Lorraine Bracco chats about the new season of her hit show, "Rizolli and Isles". That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HOST: Better known as the octomom, Nadya Suleman is famous for having a whopping 14 kids including two-year-old octuplets, all by in vitro. And she`s gotten a lot of flack in the press for it. Most recently for being caught on tape during an interview published by "In Touch Weekly" saying she`s, quote, "disgusted by babies" unquote.
Joining me now to set the record straight is the octomom herself, Nadya Suleman.
Hello Nadya, how are you.
NADYA SULEMAN, OCTOMOM: I`m fine thank you. How are you? I can`t see you.
BEHAR: You can`t see me but you can hear me, right?
SULEMAN: Yes, I can hear you. Oh, there you are, hi.
BEHAR: I can see you. Your hair looks very nice.
SULEMAN: Thank you. It`s covering the microphones. But -- thank you for your time.
BEHAR: Sure. Let`s get a couple of things out of the way so that, you know, you can straighten everybody out about what you meant.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: Because you vehemently denied making this statement and even threatened to sue "In Touch" for slander. What do you say now that the tape has come out?
SULEMAN: Ok. My manager was saying that and threatened to sue, I don`t recall that. But in regard to the tape, if they had told me the truth, that I would have, of course, that`s what I said and I`ll still say it. But I love children.
She asked me, would you have any more? Therefore igniting that negative visceral reaction, of course not, no. I`m kind of disgusted by the sound of -- does that sound and the being kind of adversely conditioned to the sound of a cry, does that mean I hate my children or any children, of course not. I adore my kids. I all children, all babies. They`re innocent.
BEHAR: Ok.
SULEMAN: But I wanted to kill that rumor that I wanted to have any more. Of course not. I would never want any more children. But if she had said, do you hate children, of course I`m not going to say that. I love children.
So you see, they like to twist; they like to fabricate, the media.
BEHAR: Let`s actually -- TMZ has the audio of what you said, let`s listen to it.
SULEMAN: I heard it. I heard it. I don`t deny any of it.
BEHAR: Ok. We want to hear it again. Let`s listen to it.
(BEGIN AUDIO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: If you had the money and the ability to have more children --
SULEMAN: God help me no.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Never again.
SULEMAN: No. I cringe and I`m not kidding, when I hear a baby cry and I`m outside and I hear a baby cry. I`m being honest, I cringe.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you hate, not hate your own, but I mean just --
SULEMAN: I do not like babies. I do not like babies to cry.
I absolutely am disgusted by babies. I`m so sorry, I`m being honest. They make me sick. I couldn`t even imagine -- I don`t even look at them. I have to look the other way.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What about your own?
SULEMAN: No these are my children.
(END AUDIO CLIP)
BEHAR: Ok. Nadya, you say I don`t hate babies. We know that but you said I`m disgusted by babies. What do you mean when you say, "I`m disgusted"?
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: Let me talk. I love children. I love babies. They`re innocent. How could you hate something innocent, an animal, a child, any human being? The thing is I`m being inundated with the life that I have now through my own choices in the past; in particular, the media, and how they like to sensationalize and how they exploit. And all of it got to the point where I do want to just get rid of that even idea that I would want another child. I adore my kids. I love all children.
BEHAR: No. You don`t want any more? You don`t want any more, right?
SULEMAN: Not any more. That`s why I was so emotional with that. I don`t want any more children.
BEHAR: I got you. Have you had your tubes tied?
SULEMAN: See, most people don`t even really understand the true story. I`ve had in vitro. I cannot -- first and foremost I`ve chosen a life of celibacy for 12 years, that wouldn`t even -- how could I get pregnant? Would it be immaculate conception? There`s no possible way I could even get pregnant. I don`t touch anybody.
You know what I mean? So seriously, what`s the point of tying my tubes if first I don`t touch anybody and second, let me talk -- second, I don`t -- how could I -- I`m not with anyone physically and I can`t -- if I were, if it was a miracle and it was with someone in the far, far future I can`t conceive via natural procreation because of the past endometriosis and all of the reproductive problems I had which is the reason I went through the route of in vitro fertilization.
BEHAR: Ok. Can I talk now?
SULEMAN: Yes, you can. I`m sorry.
BEHAR: So you wouldn`t do in vitro anymore, I`m assuming then. You`re not having sex, you won`t do that again. You`re done.
SULEMAN: No, no. Done with -- done --
BEHAR: The shop is closed.
SULEMAN: Done, done, done, beyond -- baby factory closed forever and ever.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about what you did already. Do you regret having so many kids? I mean you can barely fit your arms around all of them in that RadarOnline video. That`s a lot of kids.
SULEMAN: I`m not going to live in regret. I refuse to because it wastes energy and I need every bit of my energy to take care of the children I have. I also feel it`s not going to be advantageous to them and their well being with me living in regret or any kind of feeling of guilt or regret, you know?
If you have it you have it. You just then have to focus on the future and move forward. Learn, grow and go forward because if you keep on looking back, what is that telling my kids? Wallow in self pity? No, no, no, you just have to grow and learn.
BEHAR: Fine. But you told Oprah that you were addicted to having babies. There are alcoholics. You`re a baby-holic?
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: No, and -- here`s the thing, let me speak for a moment.
BEHAR: Go ahead.
SULEMAN: That`s so multifaceted. That`s such a complex issue. You can`t use dichotomy there. It`s not black or white. It`s not yes or no. There`s so many different layers to it, it would take like one or two books for anyone to understand, really, the underlying motives for the -- my choices in the past.
So addiction, that`s a very simplistic way to perceive it, but there`s so many other factors that contributed to it.
BEHAR: You know, Nadya, I`ve spoken to you before. You`re not a stupid woman. You`re an intelligent woman.
SULEMAN: Thank you.
BEHAR: What is behind it? Tell me?
SULEMAN: There`s too many things. Childhood is -- we are Play Doh -- we`re significantly impacted and shaped by our experiences in childhood. We recreate in adulthood our experiences in childhood, you know, perhaps, unconsciously or consciously, but there`s so many different reasons.
I don`t know which reason do you want me to give you? One that`s one of the primary reasons? Maybe I was trying to create my own safe, predictable world to overcompensate for in my head, things I lacked as a child. I`m not talking about just filling a hole in my heart. I`m talking about a life that was -- that felt safe and stable and functional.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
SULEMAN: Your children don`t leave you. They don`t abandon you. They`re there for you unconditionally. And it is a parent`s job to love and accept their children unconditionally. So this is -- so there`s so many reasons.
BEHAR: I don`t think that it`s -- I don`t know how to put this. I don`t think that it`s such a great idea to have children because they give you unconditional love.
SULEMAN: I do not advocate that -- of course not. But that is only one component. Had I known then what I know now and -- I`m sure most people can identify in regard to anything, not even children, we make different choices in the past if we had the awareness back then that we have now.
So I`m not going to live in that regret, you just can`t. And I just feel like my life has become this revolving door. It`s over and over and over. I feel like they`re going to be 18 years old and so, why did you want any more after six again? And do you live in regret? Why did you have them again?
Seriously -- I feel like it`s just -- I want it to stop this revolving-door life and I want to move forward.
BEHAR: I understand.
SULEMAN: And I feel like the only way is to just really be strong and adamant in our lifestyle now. And our lifestyle now is revolved around fitness and health and emotionally and physically and I want to then perpetuate that.
BEHAR: I think that people really find it, you know, unbelievable that anybody would ask to have 14 children, all under 10 years old.
SULEMAN: I didn`t ask to have eight -- I did not want eight after the six. Maybe it was a poor choice but I wanted one more.
BEHAR: Even six was a lot.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: You wanted one.
SULEMAN: I agree with that.
BEHAR: Even six, I mean, six children is a lot of expense, that`s a lot of diapers, that`s a lot of responsibility. It`s a lot of money to put these kids through school.
SULEMAN: Right.
BEHAR: People do wonder, what is going on in your head? This is not something that`s going to go away so fast. You see what I`m something.
SULEMAN: This is not also something I can`t answer in one very simplistic conversation. So if people are curious, then I have been writing and it`s on hiatus since last summer because I don`t have paid help and I`m doing pretty much everything. Not everything, everything. I have friends -- a very small select group of friends that I trust with my family. But I`m doing pretty much -- more than most people, more than most of my critics could even imagine doing.
BEHAR: Ok.
SULEMAN: Here`s another irony. Those critical people out there live one day in my shoes and I think you`re just going to stop. You`re going to refrain from judging any longer. You`re not going to even -- it`s unbelievable. It`s unfathomable how a human being can do this. I am doing it. I am making it possible.
It is extraordinarily challenging. I`m not going to lie and say oh, how easy is my life? No, it is extraordinarily challenging. Have I learned? Have I grown? I`m growing every more -- more and more every day. My children are my -- my best teachers.
BEHAR: Ok.
SULEMAN: I learn more from them than I have any --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok Nadya.
SULEMAN: -- again, it`s so many -- so many -- it`s too complex to answer everything in one conversation.
BEHAR: Ok, all right, we`re going try -- I want to talk to you about the other children and a few other things when we come back.
So stay right there everybody. We`ll be back with Nadya Suleman in just a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with the Octomom, Nadya Suleman.
Nadya, you recently had an interaction with Kristen -- Kristen Johnson from "Third Rock from the Sun." The actress on a plane.
SULEMAN: I don`t know who that is.
BEHAR: Tell -- tell me what about -- you don`t know who she is?
SULEMAN: Ok, I didn`t know. No, I thought she was just a drunk lady coming up to us to complain. Because I -- I -- when I was on there and I didn`t sit down by the way on the airplane with all my kids. I was constantly feeding them and making sure they were fine. And I was walking nonstop on the airplane by the way.
Yes, children, you know, I would say, I had ten kids with me and eight 2-year-olds can be just slightly loud to say the least. And -- and then, the lady, I think we were disturbing that the party going on in her head because she came up to us and slurred for us to keep it down. And I didn`t want to be disrespectful. I just questioned how do you recommend I tell eight 2-year-olds to keep it down?
And I`m you know, I`m doing my best and I`m taking care of them and they`re doing pretty well, actually. And I don`t think she heard me because she kept on going, well -- and she slurred and get more help and then -- and then, I said --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Right.
SULEMAN: -- I did -- I did get hooked, ok, a little bit on to her emotional reaction and I just -- I kind of like whispered, or not whispered, I said a little bit overtly, why don`t you grow a baby of your own and learn a little bit more about life. And she stormed -- I was told by the stewardess that she stormed off.
I could care less. I don`t have time to be bothered with other people`s issues. I have my children to take care of.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Well, I realize that, of course. But how do you respond to people who say, you know, you shouldn`t travel with that many kids. That it is annoying to have all those kids. Were you in business class? People pay a lot of money. They don`t want people all over the plane. You know, it`s a lot.
SULEMAN: We were. Ok it is my responsibility.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULEMAN: Again, I`m going to reiterate. I had a job to go to and I am going to take that seriously. And I have -- it`s my responsibility as a responsible parent to generate revenue for my family and I am going to then, take care of the kids. In my case, all I ever did was nonstop running around, taking care of them counting, counting.
They were amazing. It`s like little ducks following mommy. But I -- I had -- they were right next to me, walking, by the way, walking through the entire airport. And I had my older two with me and they were holding each two and then, I was holding two and carrying one and one friend I brought with me, only a friend. Not a nanny.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULEMAN: And again, I felt as though they were exceptionally good on the airplane. My little kids are very good, very good children. They`re highly intelligent 2 year olds.
BEHAR: Well, they`re only 2 years old. You know, they`re 2 years old.
SULEMAN: But they are exceptionally behaved. And you wouldn`t believe it if you`re at the house.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s a long flight. I believe you.
SULEMAN: And you know what, it was detained -- it was detained three and a half hours. So we`re talking about a nine and a half hour flight. And my little kids is just so exceptional.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Oh my God, just shoot me.
SULEMAN: You`re right. But no, no, no I am very serious. And when it comes to my family I`m the most serious a person can be.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I know you are. And I`m very serious about getting on a plane.
SULEMAN: And I am beyond overprotective.
BEHAR: Ok --
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: I don`t recommend going on a plane with us.
BEHAR: No, I mean, you can understand why people are a little bit irritated by all of those kids on the plane.
But let`s move on. Because I understand that you`re struggling with money and you`re facing foreclosure but you claim to have never been on public assistance.
Nadya --
SULEMAN: Right. Right, I have never been on public help.
BEHAR: -- how is that possible with all these kids, these mouths to feed? How do you do it? Tell me.
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: How is it possible?
BEHAR: Yes.
SULEMAN: Because America is not the only country in the world, by the way. I am generating revenue, pretty much, through other countries.
BEHAR: Really?
SULEMAN: So we`re talking about -- yes and it`s ironic that I`m hated in my own town which is America because other countries seem on average to be so much more positive. Other countries will come over and we`ll do the little small interviews or a document -- a little documentary, things from other countries. I mean, in radio interviews where I mean, I can make more -- as much as a person in a month of 9-5 jobs in 20 minutes.
BEHAR: Yes, I see. So you have other --
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: And so do you understand.
BEHAR: So you have other sources of income.
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: The world is a big place -- the world is a very large place to generate revenue.
BEHAR: Ok let me ask you this -- let me ask you this.
SULEMAN: Right.
BEHAR: TMZ, I don`t know if you like them or not but they posted a fetish video in January in which you can be seen in a corset, whipping a dwarf, wearing a diaper and a bonnet. What`s that about and how was it?
SULEMAN: Ok. Can I -- can I -- do I have a minute to explain that disgusting situation?
BEHAR: You have -- you have 45 seconds. Go ahead you can do it.
SULEMAN: Ok, the -- the human that I am whipping is a -- a radio personality; called -- called me. I met him when I did an interview at Power 106, he called me last November when it was in the media that my house was going under supposedly, he said, Nadya, I have an idea. You can make hundreds of thousands of dollars, yada, yada, yada. I look at the phone in disgust thinking this is a joke, right? This is a joke.
To make a very long story -- trying to make it shorter -- I ended up making the choice so I`m not touching you, I don`t want to touch you, I am not -- he said you`re fully clothes, I said, ok, all right. And I can make a lot to pay off half the house. He came -- I have to own responsibility for the stupid choice. But nevertheless, he came over and we did this and my friend -- and my friend was there and she was -- we were all just regretting it because he disconnects his phone. He sells it without my awareness.
BEHAR: Wrap it up. You`ve got to wrap it up Nadya, continue ahead.
SULEMAN: To make a long story -- ok, shorter.
BEHAR: Yes.
SULEMAN: The total dollars amount earned zero dollars total lesson learned, priceless.
BEHAR: So you`re not going to be doing any more of those types of flicks?
SULEMAN: No, no, no of course not. No, money, no money.
BEHAR: And you -- all right, so let`s --
(CROSSTALK)
SULEMAN: Can I say something -- can I say something.
BEHAR: Let me talk, let me talk.
SULEMAN: Can I say something, really quick.
BEHAR: No, I`m talking.
SULEMAN: Ok. You talk.
BEHAR: So you`re not disgusted by babies. You don`t hate babies. You`re not going to make a flick that anymore. And you`re never going to have any more babies? Is that true? Are we right?
SULEMAN: Very true. Very, very true.
BEHAR: Ok. Thank you very much Nadya for joining me tonight. We`ll be back in a minute.
SULEMAN: Thank you. Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up a little later on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, from the hit series "Rizolli and Isles", actress Lorrain Bracco.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: After the police discovered 17-year-old Tyler Hadley`s parents bludgeoned to death in Port St. Lucie, Florida it proved once more that you really don`t know what goes on inside your neighbor`s house.
Joining me now is the woman who lived next door to the Hadleys. Raeann Wallace. Raeann, were you close with the Hadleys?
RAEANN WALLACE, HADLEY FAMILY NEIGHBOR: We had a neighbor relationship. I mean I cannot say that we were friends but we spoke in the street all the time while they walked their dog or I walked mine. It was just a good-neighbor wave or that kind of thing.
BEHAR: You lived there throughout Tyler`s formative years, right? Next door to them?
WALLACE: Absolutely, yes. Yes, right. They lived next door when Tyler was born.
BEHAR: So what kind of kid was he? Did you notice?
WALLACE: Yes. I saw Tyler from his infancy days, toddling and then riding bikes and skateboards and building forts in the vacant lot across the street from us. We even put a couch out one time for the trash and he asked if they could have it for their fort and they dragged it up into the woods.
Playing football in the street. Playing basketball with his dad in the driveway. All the time.
BEHAR: Did you notice any tension between him and his parents?
WALLACE: No.
BEHAR: Nothing.
WALLACE: No. I mean nothing. Once he started driving, which was about a year and a half the ago, I didn`t see Tyler very much anymore. Because he wasn`t getting off the bus or on the bus. Or riding his bicycle. He was driving and off with his friends.
So for probably about the past year and a half I really haven`t had any interaction with him. But in his younger days, if we went on vacation, I`d say, "Tyler, don`t let anybody mess with my house" and he would say, "Ok, Mrs. Wallace." You know.
BEHAR: So, he`s a good boy to you.
WALLACE: I mean I trusted -- Yes.
BEHAR: On the night of the murders Tyler hosted a party and a neighbor filed a noise complaint, was that you?
WALLACE: Yes, it was.
BEHAR: It was?
WALLACE: Yes. But it wasn`t because of the noise from the party. It was about the time the party was breaking up. And there were many, many young men outside of my house, with cars and other cars were driving by, yelling out the windows and they were in front of our house and that`s what I was concerned about. I really did not hear noise from the party once I was inside and the air conditioner was going.
BEHAR: Ok. Did the police question you yet?
WALLACE: No.
BEHAR: They haven`t? Really?
WALLACE: No, no.
BEHAR: They will after they see this interview.
WALLACE: Maybe.
BEHAR: They might.
I mean you were a witness to the noise at any rate. Could give them some help.
WALLACE: Exactly.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks very much for the interview.
WALLACE: Thank you, it`s very sad to be here. But they were great people and no one ever deserves what happened to them.
BEHAR: It`s a pretty strange story. We haven`t heard this for a while.
Ok. Thank you very much.
We`ll have more on this case in just a minute. So stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re learning more details about Tyler Hadley, the Florida teen accused of brutally murdering his parents with a hammer before throwing a party in their home. A friend of his told police that he had spoken of killing his parents on multiple occasions, and that on the day of the murders, Hadley spent three hours, get this, mopping up the blood before inviting 50 or so friends over. So what could have made this teen crack? And could there have been warning signs? Here to discuss this further is Dr. Michael Welner, chairman of the forensic panel and associate professor of psychiatry at the NYU School of Medicine. Dr. Welner, always a pleasure to have you here. I wish you were sitting with me. Where are you?
DR. MICHAEL WELNER: Hi, Joy. I`m in Pittsburgh. And if you`re in Pittsburgh, then you know what a pleasure it would be to have you here. It is a wonderful city and I know it well.
BEHAR: OK. Now, let`s talk about this case, because police say that Hadley stood behind his mother for five minutes contemplating the killing before actually hitting her. He then chased his father and beat him to death. Now, what would make someone kill their parents in this particular manner, do you think?
WELNER: Relationships between parents and children and adolescents are invariably charged and tense, with the parents trying to set limits, with the children resisting. When that hostility meshes with the dependence, for most people there`s a lot of shouting and yelling back and forth. Occasionally, it gets physical, especially in an abusive environment.
What is -- what`s remarkable about this case is that everybody finds it unremarkable. That the neighbors think everything is normal. That his friends who were at the party didn`t even believe him when he said that he had killed his parents.
And so it brings one`s attention to the idea of the unseen. When you don`t see something, when you don`t see anything, as a forensic psychiatrist, you focus on the unseen. What was his homicidal fantasy and to what degree was he nurturing the idea of -- gee, what would it be like to kill?
When you mesh that with the hostility that you focus on your parents, that is a lethal cocktail.
We have to consider what the role of ecstasy might have been. It may have been something that he took in order to make it easier for him -- excuse me -- easier for him to embark on this rampage of his parents. But clearly, this is something that he was thinking about for a while. He didn`t act on it, but nobody saw him falling apart. Nobody saw signs of mental illness, and nobody saw him intoxicated when he was exploring this idea of destroying his parents.
BEHAR: Right. So is that the definition of cold-blooded?
WELNER: I think when no one seeing anything, focus on the unseen. And the unseen is that he have a fantasy of what it would be like to kill.
BEHAR: To kill somebody, uh-huh. Now, this is interesting, the police say that as he started hitting the mother with a hammer, she asked him why. She didn`t say no, she didn`t say stop, she didn`t say, Tyler, what are you doing? She said why. I think that`s a very interesting point in this case.
WELNER: Why, indeed. Why indeed. She`s a elementary school teacher, who was known for connecting with her students, for being sensitive. The irony of someone who you would imagine would be sensitive to a child, who would be understanding -- please understand that in cases in which a child kills the parents, sometimes it`s abuse from the parents. Other times it`s a child who tests rules, who has violent fantasy. The parents do the best that they can, but the child does not want to be reined in. And when you hear about a party after the homicide, a sort of a release of something that he couldn`t do with alcohol in the home while the parents were alive, again, it brings that to mind.
What we`ll see, though, is this angelic-like defendant who`s presented in the court, and I know that this is something you`d be sensitive to because of what we just saw in the Anthony case, the parents will be totally recast as the most abusive people on the planet, and because they`re dead, they`ll never have the opportunity to speak for themselves.
BEHAR: This is what happened to the Menendez boys, too.
WELNER: That`s exactly right.
BEHAR: That was the abuse excuse there. Exactly. And people did believe that they were -- because it`s hard to understand why you would kill your parents if they didn`t abuse you or they didn`t torture you in some way. I mean, could it be just drug-related or could you be mentally ill and no one knew it? A lot of people say that at this age, 17 or 18, schizophrenia can kick in. Is there any possibility of that?
WELNER: Of course, there`s a possibility. But do keep in mind, that before this happened, nobody saw anything remarkable. And after this happened, his own friends didn`t see anything remarkable. And the reasons that he gave for killing his parents were not delusional, weren`t irrational. He didn`t speak about voices. He did not speak about hallucinations. He talked about very rational, practical, although unthinkable, reasons.
The same question that you and others would ask of why is the very question that his mother would ask. So a forensic psychiatric examination would look at the video games he played, the computer fantasy that he engaged in. Second Life activity. How immersed in the idea of homicidal fantasy did this child get, and to what degree is it a public health risk for the vulnerable, evolving mind to get so wrapped up in the real quality of what it`s like to kill someone and to bash their head in. This may be a byproduct of how real and banal we`re making destructiveness to the developing adolescents in our homes.
BEHAR: It`s kind of scary. When you think about it -- while you were speaking, I was thinking of the Son of Sam killing. Remember that? They always said he was so quiet. He never bothered anybody. He was the perfect neighbor. You know? And then you find out he was hearing voices, and in some cases, there on the Internet looking up how to kill somebody, et cetera, et cetera.
WELNER: Sure. But he was isolated.
BEHAR: So it`s a little frightening.
WELNER: But he was isolated.
BEHAR: That`s true.
WELNER: And I think that`s a very important key here.
BEHAR: This kid had friends. He was popular. He had people come to his party. It`s very strange. And then when the cops arrived, he appeared nervous and frantic and talkative, but he had a blank stare. So what do you make of that?
WELNER: Well, how nervous would you be if you knew you had two battered and dead parents in the home and no other way to explain it?
BEHAR: Pretty nervous.
WELNER: Pretty nervous. And I think this idea of a blank stare, it`s very easy to read into it. But many a defendant is sitting there thinking, I`m in a lot of trouble and I don`t have an explanation for this. So again, I think that it`s very significant that after the killing, that he went about his business, he cleaned up, he went to a party, and he was so presentable that nobody thought that he was even telling the truth when he said that he had killed his parents.
BEHAR: It wasn`t until he said that he brought -- finally brought the friend in to see what happened.
WELNER: And he took the credit card and he hid the cell phone so they couldn`t get help, so there is a certain amount of preparation and anticipation.
BEHAR: A little premeditation.
(CROSSTALK)
WELNER: Sure.
BEHAR: Let me talk about another crime that occurred while I have you here. We`re learning more about this horrible crime against that little Brooklyn boy, whose confessed killer says that he murdered him in a panic, and then -- oh, it`s just a horrible story -- and then he dismembered, he dismembered him.
Do you think that -- I mean, do you think that he drugged the boy so he wouldn`t fight back? Because the autopsy is showing that he was drugged first.
WELNER: When someone seizes a strange child, there are two things you think of -- psychiatric illness and sexual perversion. The perpetrator here, Levi Aron, went to work with the child captive in his home. And when he went to work, he was more pulled together, he wasn`t disorganized. He had talked to his wife a couple of days earlier. She didn`t notice anything remarkable.
Perversion doesn`t necessarily mean something overtly sexual. It`s what excites someone and what excites his sexual appetite. He went to work while this poor boy was captive and restrained for 12 hours. What does that say about the underlying drive of the person? It speaks right to the idea of sexual perversion, and the idea of drugging and smothering is consistent with what sadists describe, the power to take a life.
BEHAR: And yet this guy, this perpetrator, was married, a couple of times. I mean, one of his wives said, oh, he was perfectly normal. It`s frightening to think what lies beneath the surface of some of these psychos out there.
WELNER: Sadistic sexual deviants is something that people keep separated because they recognize that others won`t accept it. They may marry. They may carry on a certain life, but they keep it separate unless it`s exposed through pornography or other kinds of behaviors like casing playgrounds, and in his case there was a question of whether he tried to kidnap someone once before.
This is a very important challenge for the Orthodox Jewish community, because there`s a controversy about whether there should be a more open discussion about sexual abuse. When you see someone killed and dismembered by a sadistic pervert, who dismembered, but someone who was within the community that others recognized was casing and attempting to position himself to kidnap someone, it speaks to the need for openness, not only in that community, but also in other cloistered communities. It doesn`t make the community look bad. It enables them to focus on the people who endanger their own children before the kids are defenseless and get murdered.
BEHAR: OK. Thank you, Dr. Welner. I hope to see you here soon. Sit here with me next time, OK?
We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: My pal Lorraine Bracco has played a mobster`s wife in "GoodFellas," a mobster`s shrink in "The Sopranos," and she`s the executive producer of "I Married a Mobster." By this point, she could probably tell you where the best place is to dispose of a body.
But now she`s playing against type as Angie Harmon`s mother on the hit TNT show "Rizzoli & Isles."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LORRAINE BRACCO, ACTRESS: You don`t like any of these? But that`s OK, we`ll get a different color. Make it feel more like you.
ANGIE HARMON, ACTRESS: This reminds me of the time that I asked for a bunk bed and you surprised me with a pink canopy.
BRACCO: I thought you loved that bed.
HARMON: I asked for a bunk bed because I wanted to build a fort, ma, and I didn`t want to hurt your feelings. I wish you knew I hate pink.
BRACCO: It`s begonia.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: OK, the wonderfully funny and talented Lorraine Bracco is with me now. Welcome to the show, Lorraine.
BRACCO: Thank you, my love.
BEHAR: So are you and Chaz Palminteri, you -- how`s the marriage going on the show?
BRACCO: Not so good.
BEHAR: Really? Was it the sink thing?
BRACCO: Well, yes, that, and probably those three kids that we have. Yeah. Whatever.
BEHAR: You`re getting a divorce.
BRACCO: We`re getting a divorce. And that`s how the first season opening starts off.
BEHAR: So they`re going to make you a single mother.
BRACCO: Single --
BEHAR: Of grown daughters.
BRACCO: As everyone`s been saying in these reviews, a single pain in the ass mother. Which, by the way, has given so much fodder for my own children, it`s a catastrophe.
BEHAR: Why?
BRACCO: Because they go, you`re like the mother you play. I hate them. They`ve given them -- they have given them a right -- you know?
BEHAR: Your girls are so adorable.
BRACCO: I`m so glad you like them.
BEHAR: Stella and Margo. Two hot little numbers they are.
BRACCO: They`re good. They`re good kids.
BEHAR: Very nice kids.
BRACCO: Hot, and Wharton graduate, and Stella is back and is studying to be a veterinarian.
BEHAR: Stella`s father, for those of you who don`t know, is Harvey Keitel.
BRACCO: Right.
BEHAR: Who`s always angry in everything. You ever run into him? He`s mad at this, he`s mad at this. He`s always like that. There is agita (ph) as we say in the neighborhood. He`s like -- was he like that when you were married to him, too?
BRACCO: I have no comment about Stella`s father. And Margo --
BEHAR: It`s all --
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: He`s been very nice and nice to Stella, and that`s all I care about.
BEHAR: Yeah. Right, he`s a great actor.
BRACCO: Very.
BEHAR: And Margo`s dad is a French guy?
BRACCO: Correct.
BEHAR: Is he still alive?
BRACCO: Is this all about Chaz, then we go to Harvey and now we`re going to -- to Francois?
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: Margo`s father is French, yes.
BEHAR: His name is Francois?
BRACCO: Francois.
BEHAR: Is he around still, is he alive?
BRACCO: Yes. Margo just got back from Paris visiting him.
BEHAR: He lives in Paris. Because you have quite a background in Paris, being a model in France and everything. And I understand that you did a radio show in Luxembourg?
BRACCO: I did.
BEHAR: How many people, ex-Nazis, were listening to that?
(LAUGHTER)
BRACCO: I used to play American rock`n` roll music, like Bruce Springsteen--
BEHAR: You were a DJ.
BRACCO: Billy Joel. Right.
BEHAR: Oh.
BRACCO: And then I would speak in French. And you know, they thought it was all sweet and charming with my American accent. That was that, it was fun. I liked it.
BEHAR: You have an interesting career.
BRACCO: I liked it that you didn`t have to do hair and makeup. I liked that.
BEHAR: I know, radio is like that.
BRACCO: We like that.
BEHAR: This show, some bloggers, "Rizzoli & Isles," some bloggers are saying that, I quote this, "TV`s first lesbian buddy cop show that just doesn`t know it yet."
BRACCO: I didn`t know it yet. Is that -- what did I miss?
BEHAR: Coming up?
BRACCO: What did I miss? Well, last season there was an episode where Angie went undercover in a lesbian bar.
BEHAR: So to speak.
BRACCO: Yeah. Uh-huh. Oh, my God!
BEHAR: But like Cagney and Lacy, they used to have that sort of vibe also.
BRACCO: Listen--
BEHAR: It`s very hot to have a lesbian show now. You know?
BRACCO: Listen, everybody is kissing. I saw Sandra Bullock and who was it, Scarlett Johansson kissing on one of those MTV shows. Why is it always that the girls kiss on this MTV Awards show?
BEHAR: I know, well, it`s a thing because Madonna started that. I guess.
BRACCO: With Britney?
BEHAR: Yeah. Didn`t you kiss Ellen Barkin somewhere?
BRACCO: I did. But that was in a movie. I was gay.
BEHAR: In the movie.
BRACCO: I was trying to seduce her.
BEHAR: So it wasn`t in a bar somewhere.
BRACCO: No, it wasn`t just random on the street. Oh, hi, Ellen Barkin!
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I`d kiss Ellen Barkin.
BRACCO: You would?
BEHAR: She`s quite fabulous, yes.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: If someone has a gun to your head, kiss, Ellen Barkin or Chaz Palminteri?
BRACCO: I`m not answering that on the grounds you`re going to get me in a lot of trouble.
BEHAR: OK. Now here is another thing. I read that Bill O`Reilly will make an appearance on "Rizzoli & Isles" as a possible murder suspect.
BRACCO: Really?
BEHAR: Did my name come up in the script at all?
BRACCO: No, but if you like, I`ll suggest it.
BEHAR: Who did he kill?
BRACCO: I don`t know, we didn`t do that yet.
BEHAR: But this is a rumor. I think that`s a very interesting choice of casting, don`t you?
BRACCO: Oh, yes, I can`t wait to meet him. And I`m going to tell him, we`re very good friends.
BEHAR: You and --
BRACCO: You and I.
BEHAR: I know--
BRACCO: He`ll be thrilled. You, me and Whoopi.
BEHAR: I know. That`s true. Oh, god!
BRACCO: What a way to --
BEHAR: Another thing, you executive-produced this other show, "I Married a Mobster," which is coming on this week?
BRACCO: And I also do the voiceover for it.
BEHAR: You do the voiceover and you`re the EP.
BRACCO: Yes.
BEHAR: So these are real women who are married to real mobsters, not some fake thing.
BRACCO: Not fake, right. It`s not make-believe. These are the real women who were married to a bunch of, you know, gangsters. And it`s really incredible, their stories. You know, it`s in a way, it`s incredible that they survived it and they`re able to talk about it today. And that they`re alive and well and they have children--
BEHAR: Well, their husbands didn`t kill them. They killed other people.
BRACCO: Well, you know, yes, but it`s -- what they go through -- what some of these girls went through is just unbelievable. And there are I believe there are ten of them -- nine of them. And some of the stories are absolutely extraordinary.
BEHAR: I know.
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: You only saw one. Some of them, they have great stories. Really great. And it`s the real thing.
BEHAR: OK. All right, we`re going to take a break. We`ll have more with Lorraine Bracco in just a momento.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back with Lorraine Bracco, the co-star of the hit TNT show "Rizzoli and Isles."
Now, Lorraine, the other night I`m at your house Saturday night in the Hamptons, which is -- you always have these fabulous parties. It`s like a big gay bar at your house.
BRACCO: And you missed most of it. You were tired. You should have seen what happened after you left.
BEHAR: Well, one of your friends got into a dress, OK, one of the guys got into a dress.
BRACCO: I know.
BEHAR: He said, do you think I should put this on? I said you have the figure for it. And he did. But anyway, the other thing about the night is you were bitching about the fact that I went to Liza Minnelli`s yard sale and I bought stuff from Liza. And you were like--
BRACCO: No, no, this is my favorite thing. OK? You and Vinny, you went to the yard sale. It happened to be Liza Minnelli brought out a truck. OK? Neither one of you called me, OK, to pick up a little something from Liza, I would have liked to have had as a memento of life. OK, that`s OK. Then I say to her, well, how was it? She goes, well, it really wasn`t that good. And I said, really? What did you buy? I bought some bracelets, some earrings, some this, some that. How bad could it have been?
BEHAR: It was great. And I also happened to have bought these little glasses which I`m going to give you because I`m so guilty. I brought them for you.
BRACCO: Oh, my God, they`re gorgeous!
(LAUGHTER)
BRACCO: Oh, my God, do you know what these are? I`m going to tell you what they are.
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: They`re handmade and they`re from Salvietti (ph).
BEHAR: Really, they`re worth something? Give them back to me. No, I`m kidding.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I went into my cupboard yesterday and I said, I`m going to give Lorraine--
BRACCO: I love them!
BEHAR: Not only are they beautiful, but they`re from Liza.
BRACCO: Thank you.
BEHAR: You`re welcome.
BRACCO: Excuse me, excuse me.
BEHAR: Uh-oh--
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: It`s coming, it`s coming! No tongue. Sorry.
BEHAR: Before we go, I don`t have a lot of time. Tell everybody how you lost the weight.
BRACCO: Gluten free.
BEHAR: I don`t buy that because you --
(CROSSTALK)
BRACCO: I cut out sugar, flour and pasta.
BEHAR: Oh. So it`s gluten, it`s not gluten free, it`s pasta free.
BRACCO: It is -- no, no, I go to Whole Foods and I read a lot of labels now, ask Monica, she`ll tell you. I go, can I eat this?
BEHAR: So you have someone there to tell you what you can eat.
BRACCO: Monica also went on it with me so it was easier. And I do a protein and a veggie and I do a shake.
BEHAR: You also do a lot -- you look gorgeous.
BRACCO: I do a protein shake. You want another kiss? Is that what that`s about?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Well, don`t forget, you posed naked in a play on Broadway.
BRACCO: I did.
BEHAR: "The Graduate," she was naked, hello?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I begged them to be naked. They say, no, that`s OK. And you can see "Rizzoli & Isles" Monday nights on TNT.
Before we go, don`t forget, CNN and HLN are the very first news network in the United States to stream 24-hour news online and on mobile, which means even if you`re not sitting in front of a TV, you can watch live, including breaking news. Check out CNN.com/video to find out how.
Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
