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Joy Behar Page

The Death of Amy Winehouse

Aired July 25, 2011 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, singing sensation Amy Winehouse dead at 27. We`ll go through the troubled star`s last hours and ask why so many talented musicians never make it to 30.

Then, many people felt Winehouse was headed for disaster. So did anybody try to intervene? When does an addict move beyond the point of salvation?

Plus, Joy talks to Crystal Harris, the "Playboy" playmate who left Hugh Hefner five days before their wedding.

That and more starting right now.

JOY BEHAR, HOST: The death of Amy Winehouse is still a mystery. An autopsy was performed today, but investigators say the results were inconclusive. Winehouse was just 27 years old when she died this weekend but had publicly struggled with addiction for years.

Here now with more on Amy Winehouse and her tragic passing are Mackenzie Phillips, actress and author of "High on Arrival"; Ian Drew, senior editor of "Us Weekly"; and Dr. Gail Saltz, clinical psychiatrist and associate professor of Psychiatry at New York Presbyterian Hospital.

So Ian, we`re still waiting for a cause of death. But there were reportedly no drugs found on -- around her body.

IAN DREW, SENIOR EDITOR, "US WEEKLY": That`s true.

BEHAR: Yes.

DREW: No drugs. We still don`t know what it is. We`re going to be under a cloud of mystery for quite some time. And it could be two months. We don`t know yet.

But we know she`s going to be buried tomorrow. They just announced the funeral is going to be held tomorrow. She`s Jewish so they usually do it the day after if possible. And the body will thus be brought there.

BEHAR: Could it be? I mean, I know she took a lot of drugs. So could it be that she took all the drugs and that`s why there were none around her?

DREW: Yes, it could be -- it could have been before --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

DREW: -- she used to go to a pub where she was actually seen right by her house just before. So there are a lot of -- a lot of things that could be. Now it also could be something related to the drug use such as a seizure, where it wasn`t a direct overdose.

BEHAR: Oh, I see.

DREW: But something like that. She also, you know -- I had spoken to sources close to her, and we all knew that she had an eating disorder. It wasn`t diagnosed, but there were problems with that. It could have been a heart attack related to that, as well. So it could have been anemic.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: And also there`s a report that she had emphysema.

DREW: She did. She did.

BEHAR: At 27 years old, how do you have emphysema?

DREW: She smoked a tremendous amount. But you forget not only with the cigarettes, but she was smoking crack and she was caught on video smoking crack. So it`s very, very serious. And she smoked a tremendous amount. She also sang about weed. She smoked pot all the time.

BEHAR: Yes.

DREW: I mean that was in her lyrics.

BEHAR: She`s to me -- there`s something about the story that makes it sound like she was just not trying to get high, she was trying to kill herself. I mean, how much weed, how much drugs, how much crack, how much cigarettes, how much of that can you ingest before you will get emphysema at 27 years old or overdose on something?

DREW: Well, yes.

BEHAR: Does that sound like suicidal to you, Gail?

DREW: Yes.

DR. GAIL SALTZ, CLINICAL PSYCHIATRIST: You know what, it`s certainly masochistic.

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: It definitely is self-destructive. But whether that originated with the addiction or not is -- is -- in other words, did she have a character style already that she was very drawn to doing self- destructive things. That`s very possible.

But on top of that, when somebody is embedded in addiction, they do self-destructive things.

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: When you`re high, your vision consciously of "is this self- destructive" isn`t very good. So whether she was aware or not or actually on a mission to kill herself, I don`t know that we could say that.

BEHAR: Yes. Mackenzie, do you have a response to that at all?

MACKENZIE PHILLIPS, ACTRESS: You know, first of all, what I -- what I wanted to say was the fact that there were no drugs -- and who knows how she died but we all kind of have an idea.

BEHAR: Yes.

PHILLIPS: The fact that there were no drugs found in close proximity to the body, I believe it was a security guard who discovered her, one of her bodyguards. So they could have cleaned up the area.

BEHAR: True.

PHILLIPS: I mean that wouldn`t be out of character with a celebrity drug overdose. What I have to say is that that you know I -- I didn`t know Amy Winehouse. I wasn`t particularly familiar with her music, but when I read the news, I was so deeply affected. Another one down.

And we have to remember that this is -- this is -- this is an epidemic across the world. You know, every -- however many seconds, someone`s child will die of a drug overdose. And people try to attribute it to Hollywood or the music business, and it`s just a very, very sad thing. It`s an epidemic and people`s brothers, sisters --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

PHILLIPS: -- children are dying every day, and it`s heartbreaking.

BEHAR: Now just -- that`s right. Just over a month ago, she performed at a concert in Belgrade where she was booed by her fans. Let`s take look at the YouTube video of that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

(PEOPLE BOOING AMY WINEHOUSE)

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BEHAR: Ok. That`s pretty bad.

DREW: Yes.

BEHAR: That`s pretty bad.

DREW: But I -- but it wasn`t just that performance. This has been going on for years, you know.

I remember in 2008, she did the Rock in Rio festival in Brazil and she was a mess, stumbling. And that was two years ago. It hasn`t gotten any better. And that`s actually a little better than that performance. That was devastating.

PHILLIPS: You know, I think we -- we also need to remember that when it -- when it`s a man who`s high or drunk, a rock star, it`s like, yes, he`s -- look at him, he`s -- he`s the personification of rock and roll. And when it`s a woman, we say, she was a mess, and she was stumbling.

And you know, it`s horrible and it`s sad, and -- after that performance in Belgrade, she should not have been left alone for more than two minutes at a time. She should just -- I don`t understand how this happened. I mean, I know celebrities have people around them who cater to them and, you know, it`s difficult to say no to someone like that.

But she should have been scooped up and put under conservatorship. I mean everyone knew it was coming, and it was only a matter of time.

BEHAR: Yes.

PHILLIPS: As her own mother said.

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: But let me just say this because I think you know people were saying why couldn`t the parents, why couldn`t people do more -- and I think it sounds like a lot of people tried to do things. They -- they committed her at some point.

At the end of the day, if the person is over the age of 18 --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: -- and they simply will not stay in rehab --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Right.

SALTZ: -- or will not follow the treatment or keep putting themselves back into situations with friends, with people who surround them that are still using, going to -- going to the bars, going to the clubs, there isn`t necessarily something that a parent or anybody else can actually do.

BEHAR: Right.

SALTZ: This is the disease that kills.

BEHAR: The mother said -- the mother`s quote that Mackenzie`s referring to is.

PHILLIPS: Absolutely.

BEHAR: "It was only a matter of time before her daughter died," she said.

PHILLIPS: Yes.

BEHAR: So I mean you`re right. I don`t think that the mother was in denial.

PHILLIPS: And for me -- I mean for me, I had to be taken out of Los Angeles International Airport in handcuffs. And I thanked the LAPD for saving my life. I wish that something -- that she had gotten caught up in the legal system somehow.

SALTZ: You know what and that can only -- that can only happen when someone is so clearly incapacitated that they`re legally deemed incompetent, then you can.

DREW: Right.

SALTZ: If they`re psychotic or you know, completely non-functional, then you can. But the minute that they`re out of that, you know, we -- we say you have civil rights, and -- and we -- and we can`t do that to you.

BEHAR: Yes.

DREW: Right.

SALTZ: And so then they`re right back in it.

BEHAR: Well you know, the father four years ago -- her father was quoted as saying, quote, "There`s only one person to blame, and that`s Amy." Is that fair?

DREW: Yes, it is, because they tried everything they could to help her. It was -- there was a time there where every two weeks they were getting her in somewhere. And she`d run out or she`d escape or she disappear. So this was a constant pattern. They really did try everything.

PHILLIPS: But --

DREW: These people were -- were doing what they could. I mean there were people brought in, she was brought to centers. You just run out of things to do.

SALTZ: But not that -- except the blame is -- is maybe not the most helpful --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Right.

SALTZ: -- in the sense that --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Yes.

DREW: Right.

SALTZ: -- it really is a disease. There are some people who are truly -- their brains are more predisposed to becoming addicted. And once they are, they`re in a different state.

You know, you have to be a couple of months sober -- you have to be basically a month or two sober before your frontal lobe is even capable of learning any new information.

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: We recently understood that.

So the ability to learn a new lifestyle, a new way of being and absorb therapy is really -- it`s something you can`t do until you`ve been out for a while.

BEHAR: So then -- then how do you stop somebody from taking drugs? Mackenzie did -- was there anyone you listened to when you were doing drugs?

PHILLIPS: No. I -- I -- I would say, I`m fine, stop worrying about me, leave me alone. And then the night before I got arrested, I remember thinking, oh, my God, I am so screwed. I`m going to die alone in this room. And someone who loves me is going to find me.

And I -- I actually sent out a prayer to the universe that that something would stop me. And by 10:00 the next morning, I was in handcuffs and by that afternoon, I was on a plane on my way to rehab.

And I -- I don`t know, but I want to ask is there a -- do you find that there`s a -- people who just have a stronger constitution, that -- that can survive long enough to get well? Or is it -- is it the luck of the draw? I mean what is it? Why do people will have to die?

BEHAR: Maybe Dr. Saltz can answer that.

SALTZ: Well I think -- I think it does depend very much on -- on many things. What are your support systems? You know, unfortunately for celebrities, their support systems often support them staying in it.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Some of these hangers-on.

SALTZ: Exactly but also --

DREW: Especially with her.

BEHAR: Yes.

SALTZ: -- there are biological -- there are biological differences between people, people come in with different character styles that promote it.

DREW: Right.

BEHAR: Right.

SALTZ: But I think it`s about education early. It`s before you take the drugs. That`s really where we need to be making interventions.

DREW: Right, well --

BEHAR: Well, yes, you interviewed her many times.

DREW: Yes and I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Tell me about your impression of her.

DREW: Well, the first time I saw her was on stage at "South by Southwest", it`s a big music festival in Texas back in 2006 when "Back to Black", her second album dropped. And I was struck by her frailty, her vulnerability, and that`s the mark of so many great artists as you know.

And I really likened her to Billie Holliday. And then I`m listening to her last recording today that she did with Tony Bennett which was in March --

BEHAR: Who did not have any of those symptoms? I mean --

(CROSSTALK)

DREW: Oh Tony did but -- but --

BEHAR: -- no but you`re saying that great artist always have to have -- no I don`t agree with that.

DREW: Not all of them but some of them have that frailty, that vulnerability and that emotional --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Well, the ones that stick out.

DREW: They have to have that emotional sort of connection -- she had a supreme vulnerability that really made her pour her heart out into those lyrics and into those songs and with that voice. So just listening to her, you felt. And unfortunately, she was very susceptible to the people around her.

BEHAR: I think it was Billie Holliday who used to break one men -- no, the little sparrow, Edith Piaf. She would break up with a guy just to make her feel miserable so that her songs would be more, you know, deeply felt.

DREW: Amy, there`s a very strong parallel between her and a lot of those kind of artist.

BEHAR: Somebody like Edith Piaf.

DREW: Yes, and she sat -- what I was going to say is in that Tony Bennett recording I was listening to today, she sounded like Billie Holliday. It was so ravaged but yet you felt everything to the bone.

SALTZ: Those are people for whom fame kills. I mean --

BEHAR: Too vulnerable.

SALTZ: For some people fame is not a good thing.

BEHAR: Too vulnerable. Thank you guys very much.

DREW: Yes.

BEHAR: We`ll have more on this in just a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Amy Winehouse`s family, friends, and fans are certainly devastated by her passing, but unfortunately, not many are surprised given the singer`s long struggle with addiction. We`re continuing our discussion and with me now are Danny Bonaduce, actor and radio talk show host on WISP in Philadelphia; and Brad Lamm, boards certified interventionist.

But first I want to start with Salaam Remi, Amy Winehouse`s producer. Thank you for joining me, Salaam. You were her producer and friend. How did you find out what happened to her?

SALAAM REMI, AMY WINEHOUSE`S PRODUCER: Well, I`m actually in London right now because I was -- we were planning to go to a wedding together on Sunday.

So I got in on Thursday, and then I was en route to go to her house on Saturday, to visit her prior to going to the wedding. And a security guard called me and told me pretty much that, you know, she had passed away. So I ended up not going.

I actually went there and, of course, couldn`t get in. The place was cordoned off, and the police were outside doing what they had to do. So that`s how I found out.

BEHAR: It`s a terrible thing. You know, it`s a terrible thing. People are very, you know, taken with this. When was the last time you saw Amy, and how did she seem to you?

REMI: Well, we would video chat regularly. So I video chatted with her about a week ago. We were having a conversation -- we`d talk a lot, for two, three hours at a time. For the last month we probably did that three or four times.

BEHAR: How did she seem?

REMI: She was fine.

BEHAR: She seemed ok.

REMI: She was fine. Yes, she was fine.

BEHAR: I read that she just saw a doctor on Friday and everything seemed to check out ok.

REMI: Yes. There was nothing out of the ordinary to that level. No, she was fine.

BEHAR: So are you shocked by this?

REMI: I`m shocked by it but it`s because it was not meant to happen at all. I`m definitely shocked. But even more than anything else, I`m taken a-back, I lost a sister and a friend; and any way that happens, that`s not good. So I`m beyond shocked. I`m just actually hurt more than anything else. You know, hopefully she`s fine.

BEHAR: I see. As you know, she struggled with her substance abuse. You know that. Did she ever confide in you about that?

REMI: I spoke to her, but it was the same as any of us -- most people in the world at this point have someone in their family that has some type of alcohol or maybe drug abuse or something. It was the same way as your sister or brother or mother, father, daughter, anyone would actually react. So our conversations were the same.

And, you know, she was always in the place where she knew that she accepted that she had an addiction. She was trying not to be an addict but she knew she was an addict. She always had to fight against this. She was really aware of that.

BEHAR: Her mother -- we just spoke about her parents. And her mother said that they tried to help, but she herself thought that -- that Amy would die. That it was only a matter of time.

Did you feel the same way? Are you shocked by the mother`s statement?

REMI: No, but I wouldn`t judge her mother. I mean her mother birthed her so that`s their conversation and my conversations with her were always quite positive, uplifting, and musical and Amy`s a comedienne. So whatever happens Amy`s always making me laugh and a great hearted person. That`s really what I have dealt with more than anything else.

I was a breath of fresh air. I was a muse, and she was my muse. You know, between the two albums and now the third that we were in the process of doing, like it was just always about music and life. And what`s funny and what`s really going on, you know, more than any dark issues that we may have had.

BEHAR: So how do you think that the world is going to remember Amy?

REMI: Well, with my help, they will remember her for the musical genius that she was or they wouldn`t know she existed. So the reality is that at this point, you know, she is someone who had more than a gift musically, and she will continue to have her music spread throughout the world. And, you know, hopefully inspire many others to be greater at what they do.

BEHAR: Thank you very much, Salaam. I`m sorry for your loss. I know you lost a friend.

REMI: Definitely. Thank you.

BEHAR: You`re welcome.

Now I want to turn to my panel, Danny, let`s start with you. You know addiction. Did you see this coming? What is your response to Salaam`s remarks?

DANNY BONADUCE, ACTOR, RADIO HOST: I almost feel terribly guilty. My first thing is that I have to say my sympathies to her mother and father. I do not believe it`s in God`s plan for the parents to outlive their child. I can`t imagine anything sadder than that.

But did I see it coming? I hate to say this now because this is in such poor taste, but last month when she got booed off the stage in Serbia, I did the Amy Winehouse is dead show the next day. I feel awful about it but it seemed funny at the time. I didn`t know she was really going die, but did I see it coming? Yes. I did a whole show about it a month ago.

BEHAR: Yes. Brad, we just talked about how her family tried to help her but it wasn`t enough. You`re an interventionist, what do you -- go ahead.

BRAD LAMM, BOARD-REGISTERED INTERVENTIONIST: Well, it`s the Monday morning quarterback where everybody says, "God, did they do enough?" But addiction is the only disease that has a symptom that tells you there`s no disease. It`s that -- God, it`s that catch 22 for every family because they try to help somebody. They fall into that myth so often, the person is not ready to change, they don`t want the help, then we keep trying to either help or brush it under the carpet.

And look, addiction is a disease, and when somebody walks out of chemo, and it doesn`t work, people don`t blame the person. Oh, my god, look, what a screw-up, her chemo didn`t work. Where in addiction, you leave treatment the third time and relapse and people are like, oh, my god, it`s inevitable, you die.

The truth is this -- Danny survived. I got clean and sober. Mackenzie got clean and sober, people do get better, but not everybody will. Families can step in and help. Intervention works.

BONADUCE: I only disagree with one --

BEHAR: Hold it, Danny.

BONADUCE: I would disagree with one part of what you said.

BEHAR: And I would like to hear it as soon as we come back after this break, ok. Hang in there.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: We are back and talking about the death of Amy Winehouse. Danny, you were about to say you disagreed with Brad about something. Bring us back.

BONADUCE: Yes, because I am not a big proponent of the addiction is a disease just like cancer. If a guy gets up and walks out on chemo, damn right, I blame him. Of course, I blame him. Who else would you blame if a man is foolish enough to walk out on chemo?

So if people -- Amy Winehouse is famous -- and God love her for her talent. She was one of the best. I don`t want to come off mean here in any way, shape, or form.

The fact is people tried to help her. Her big song is "Trying to get me to go rehab", she`s been at least three times. Something about your profession is not working, sir.

BEHAR: Well, Brad, she did make that song -- they tried to get me to rehab and I said no, no, no. I mean she did say that in the song.

LAMM: Not for nothing. The point of intervention is to help somebody get ready. And look, when I was on drugs and alcohol and all of it, you know, there -- I would say, no. Of course I`d say no, I was addicted. And so -- look, Danny, if you want to disagree that addiction is not a disease, great. Ok.

There are different schools of thought. Science tells us that the addiction model works best when you`re dealing with -- the disease model works best when dealing with addiction. If treatment doesn`t work the first time, you keep back and try it again. I`ve had people that have -- it`s taken five times, sometimes me -- it took one time.

Families that I work with, if we can get the family to work together and enable recovery, that`s the biggest thing that helps.

BEHAR: Brad, can I say -- I think maybe what he`s trying to say is if it is a disease, why would you give yourself a disease? Is that -- in the ballpark, Danny?

BONADUCE: Good enough, Joy, yes.

LAMM: Ok. But I don`t think he`s saying that. But even if we can agree that addiction is maybe part of it`s genetic and part of it`s the stuff we go through that helps us embrace or fall into addiction in a really grand way, ok, you know.

Look, the points of view of how people get addicted, there are many of them. But the way that people get out of addiction, I think science agrees that a disease model works. Meaning there`s a cure, there`s a way to get better. You don`t have to languish forever in the disease.

BEHAR: Right.

LAMM: Danny --

(CROSSTALK)

BONADUCE: We can certainly say --

LAMM: Did you stop and stay stopped? What does your recovery look like? You still drink, do a little weed?

BONADUCE: I have failed a million times and have every intention of possibly failing on the way home. That`s not -- I`m not big on that. The thing is that I believe -- let`s say Amy Winehouse, an incredible talent, has died. And that`s what brought us together here.

BEHAR: Now do you think --

BONADUCE: There are no rock stars without the Beatles. John Lennon was shot, George Harrison died of cancer, Ringo Starr is in recovery, and Sir Paul McCartney is a vegan. If it`s a disease, it`s certainly not contagious.

BEHAR: Well, that`s true. Not all rock stars are drug addicts.

LAMM: That sentence made absolutely no sense. But the thing that connects a housewife to a rock star in the U.K. is this -- that people that are addicted have a hard time stopping. And treatment works, good treatment works when the family can rally around and help them interrupt the addiction, and that`s what I`m talking about.

The end of your rope --

BEHAR: The question is why start -- the first thing is, why do people start in the first place? This is what makes me crazy.

LAMM: Because it feels good. Joy, because it feels good. The thing about an addict is we have one glass of wine and we want five more. Where if you is a glass of wine, you may have a couple. Makes you feel better at the end of the day.

An addict doesn`t have an off button. That`s one of the hallmark signs of addiction.

BEHAR: I understand.

BONADUCE: I agree with Brad on that. If drugs did not feel good, you wouldn`t have drug addicts. They feel great the first time. And then after a while, all you`re doing is trying not to get sick anymore. So I agree with Brad there.

BEHAR: I`m glad to see that you agree on something.

LAMM: We have a point of agreement.

BEHAR: Ok, let`s end there. Thank you guys very much. Brad`s book is called, "How to Change Someone You Love.

We`ll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: Remember back in May when "Lost" actor Doug Hutchison who`s 51 married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in Vegas with her parents` permission, of course? Well, the couple recently talked to "e online" about their sex love.

Let`s watch it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DOUG HUTCHISON, ACTOR: Courtney was a Christian and saving herself for marriage. And you know, I got to say if there`s only one caveat to our -- the ocean between our age difference, I wished I was a virgin when we met. And - because I think --

COURTNEY STODDEN, DOUG HUTCHISON`S ACTOR: It`s fine that he wasn`t. Whatever. He`s a tiger.

HUTCHISON: God. You`re so bad.

(END VIDOE CLIP)

BEHAR: You`re so bad. Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are Melissa Joan Hart, star of ABC family`s "Melissa and Joey." Rob Shuter, an AOL`s Popeater columnist, and Judy Gold, comedienne and star of "the Judy show: my life as a sitcom."

OK. Rob, do you believe she was a virgin on or wedding night? That`s my --

(LAUGHTER)

ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, AOL`S POEATER: I don`t know -- say she is you`ve got to believe her. I think she might have been if she says that she is --

MELISSA JOAN HART, STAR, "MELISSA AND JOEY": She`s only 16 so she can`t be far off from a virgin, right? Can`t be that far --

BEHAR: She is not 16, there`s no way she`s 16.

JUDY GOLD, COMMEDIAN AND STAR, "THE JUDY SHOW: MY LIFE AS A SITCOM": I don`t know. She looks like a playmate to me. I had no idea that`s what she looked like. It makes sense -- Hugh Hefner, playmate --

What do they talk about like at night -- I`m sorry, honey, I have a math test and you your prostate exam tomorrow. What do they talk about?

BEHAR: What about that he`s a tiger in bed?

GOLD: That`s gross.

BEHAR: Tigers sleep 22 hours a day.

(CROSSTALK)

SHUTER: It`s odd that they`re doing these interviews. They don`t have to do this. They`re clearly loving, us talking about her, and I don`t think they`re going to shuts up any time soon.

HART: I want to know who introduced them. I feel like because of his age -- were they at a mixer and they hung -- I feel like her mom -- it must have her mom.

GOLD: I heard she volunteers at a nursing home, and he was in the hallway screaming.

HART: Never done anything like the mom --

BEHAR: Let me say one thing about him. He claims that his career is on a roll. Is that true?

SHUTER: I think a lot of people mistake attention for career progression. So I think somebody that`s disappeared from the public eye for a sometime is back in the public eye.

BEHAR: So this relationship has put him back?

SHUTER: In the public eye.

BEHAR: The publicity has worked for him.

SHUTER: Well, he hasn`t got a job yet. Plus, here we are talking about him.

BEHAR: Now, she`s an aspiring singer. She`s represented by Doug`s management company, his management company. Do you think she can sing? Have you heard her sing?

SHUTER: I`ve not heard her sing.

(LAUGHTER)

HART: She looks hot in the video, though. I don`t know.

SHUTER: Pretty girl.

GOLD: Yes. She`s not 16.

If she`s 16, I`m 5`2", OK?

BEHAR: Listen, if she`s as young looking as those kids on "toddlers and tiaras." OK.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: OK. Let`s talk about former Congressman Anthony Weiner. Apparently he started therapy for the sex addiction, and he says there are three women he`s accountable to. Four if you count Barney Frank. But his manager --

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: I apologize, Barney, that`s a cheat shot. His mother, these are the four women, his mother, his wife Huma, and his wife`s boss -- three, rather -- who happens to be secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

Now, I mean I`d be frightened of Hillary, too, wouldn`t you?

GOLD: I can`t believe he sexted Hillary Clinton.

BEHAR: He did not --

GOLD: No, I`m kidding.

BEHAR: Stop that.

Huma. Yes. Got to have a good sense of Huma, she`s been keeping a low profile, the woman.

SHUTER: She disappeared. We haven`t seen at all. She works for Hillary Clinton. We`ve seen a lot of Hillary, we used to always see her in the shadows or next to Hillary, and she`s disappeared for at least a couple of months. Nobody really knows where she is.

BEHAR: Do you think she`s going to leave him, Melissa? Would you if you were --

HART: No, because they`re in politics. You can`t - Look at Hillary. She`s still with bill, right? I mean you stay with each other so you have this political platform of being the happy married couple.

BEHAR: But I don`t know that she needs to do that. I think she`s staying with him because she`s pregnant. And she -- I hear that she`s madly in love with him.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: So I think he`s cute. I think that that was a crazy period he went through. He`ll get out of it now.

SHUTER: You`re just saying that.

BEHAR: I am not just saying that.

SHUTER: He just started texting for a month --

BEHAR: I think there`s something nutsy that went on with him and he`s got to get out of it now.

HART: I think it`s a little bit of an addiction, the sex thing and all of that stuff, you get carried away. It`s a little bit of fun. But he should have known who he was and what he was doing.

GOLD: He`s got this amazing job, and he`s taking picture of his --

HART: And gorgeous wife.

GOLD: And taking pictures, ridiculous.

BEHAR: That shows lack of judgment.

GOLD: I send one picture of my penis to a person and didn`t get the result that I wanted.

SHUTER: Stop it. The shocking picture.

BEHAR: Now he has -- he`s been texting pictures like these that we`ve been showing, from biggovernment.com and TMZ.

Exactly what do they do in sex rehab? What do they do? They like attach a beeper to your Schmeckel? What do they do, rob?

SHUTER: I think they talk about why you do this and why this pattern of behavior is destructive. And I think like taking drugs or alcohol, abuse is abuse. And I think this is probably what they focus on.

HART: I think sex addiction sounds like a little bits of -- I don`t know. Like everyone going to, you go to the hospital because you`re dehydrated. Because you drank so much and did so much blow that you --

SHUTER: Right.

HART: It`s like the new --

BEHAR: I love this angel saying you took too much blow. I love it.

HART: No, really -- another excuse for --

BEHAR: He didn`t have sex with them, though.

HART: No, he never had sex with --

GOLD: You can do a lot worse things with a penis than take a picture.

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: I won`t touch that. You know what, it`s so like low to be an exhibitionist. I think how much more demented can you get than showing your jewels to the world. It`s so crazy.

SHUTER: They do love themselves. Egos tend to be large.

HART: But not everyone wants to know known for the size of your penis.

HOLD: How did he not think he`d get caught?

BEHAR: I don`t know.

Let`s go to another one, another texter, Brett Favre.

Now, he also sent a picture of his mister happy to somebody. And he`s coming out of retirement to play for the Philadelphia eagles. How come he gets away with it -?

GOLD: He was wearing a cup --

BEHAR: I think Anthony Weiner doesn`t get away with it because of his name. Weiner.

(CROSSTALK)

HART: Oh, my god!

BEHAR: All the little angels on this show turn into potty-mouths.

HART: We did a play together, and I learned it from her.

BEHAR: Let`s talk about gay marriage for a second because New York`s gay marriage law went into effect yesterday. Hundreds of couples were married in New York City.

It was great to hear judges say "I now pronounce yous guys," whatever.

Now you two have openly, I think -- aren`t you -- no? Judy, you`re openly a lesbian.

GOLD: Uh-huh. No, yes, I am. I am.

BEHAR: Are you going to get married now?

GOLD: You know I would love to get married. I really would love to get married. And now what`s great about this gay marriage thing is now gay people can have real anniversaries and not just tell people it`s the date of the first time they did it because that was -- that is usually the gay anniversary until you get married. Yes --

BEHAR: That`s funny.

GOLD: It`s true.

BEHAR: Not everybody`s happy about gay marriage. Some on the right are criticizing. Of course we know, Michele Bachmann and the rest of us.

But gay rights legend Larry Kramer is not happy. May I read a quote? He says, "These marriages in whichever state are what I call feel-good marriages compared to the benefits heterosexual marriages convey. Gay marriages are an embarrassment that we should accept so little and with so much hoopla of excitement and self-congratulations." what do you make of that?

SHUTER: Larry? Larry`s angry, and --

GOLD: I actually --

SHUTER: Old and move on. Larry, Larry.

BEHAR: You know, surviving spouses are subject to huge inheritance taxes --

GOLD: Yes, I have to say, I agree -- I have such mixed feelings about gay marriage because you get no Social Security benefits, you pay inheritance tax, 1,128 benefit that heterosexual marriages, they get these benefits from the federal government. Even if you write you`re married on a census form, you`re still not acknowledged as married --

SHUTER: A stepping stone.

GOLD: I know, but it`s getting annoying. Casey Anthony could get married and be acknowledged by the federal government and I can`t. You know --

BEHAR: True. That`s true.

GOLD: Annoying.

BEHAR: I look at the heterosexual marriages that are ridiculous.

Mel Gibson and Arnold Schwarzenegger. John Edwards -- you name it.

GOLD: What about Britney Spears is married for 55 hours, that`s fine? These people have been together 50, 60 years? I`m sorry --

(CROSSTALK)

BEHAR: Do we have time for another topic? OK.

Jefferson County, Colorado, says that the first amendment protects the right to view sexually explicit material. So porn is legal in public libraries.

Does this mean that in addition to no talking now there`s going to be no moaning? OK.

(LAUGHERT)

Never mind. So what do you think about that? I mean it`s now legal too. If you`re in a library now, you can now view explicit material, possibly porn.

You like that idea or not?

Anybody? If there was a child walking by and someone was masturbating --

There was that.

HART: I think they need a locked room at the video store --not just the curtain, a locked room. So, you have to get the key not to embarrass yourself, go to the librarian and say can I have the key to the --

GOLD: I think it`s going to be really odd for parents to be like, if I catch you in that library again, you`re grounded. You know?

BEHAR: True. The library was a sanctuary.

Right. It was where you wanted your kid to go.

To read "the Vessel Telveteen Rabbit."

GOLD: Now you`ll touch the Velveteen Rabbit, stroke it.

BEHAR: All right.

Before we go on any further with this woman, I say thank you to my panel. And you can see Melissa Joan Hart in "Melissa and Joey", Wednesdays at 8:00 p.m. on ABC family.

We will be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: What happens when you`re engaged to a cultural icon whose 60 years older than you are? When you`re my guest, leave days before the wedding.

Of course, it could have been worst, she could have left him at the park feeding ducks.

Let`s welcome the woman who said "I don`t" to Hugh Hefner, Crystal Harris.

Hello my dear. Good to see you again. I saw you this morning.

CRYSTAL HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: We went over a few things. You kept the ring.

HARRIS: I have the ring still.

BEHAR: Because -- because Hef, what, didn`t want it back?

HARRIS: He -- he didn`t want it back. He said I could keep it. I still have it. I don`t know what to do with it. Maybe make it into a necklace or something.

BEHAR: Yes. How many carats?

HARRIS: Three and a half

BEHAR: Oh, my dear. That`s a lot of money. Are you sure it`s real? You need to get that appraised, Crystal.

And let me ask you another question, did you have a pre-Nup? Of course you did.

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: How much were you going to get?

HARRIS: I would end up making more money if I had stayed and gone through with the wedding.

BEHAR: But because you didn`t you get cut out of everything except the ring?

HARRIS: Yes. But I`m fine with that. Being there made me realize that money isn`t the most important thing in life.

BEHAR: Right. Freedom`s just another word to keep the ring. Wait a second. How about the Bentley that you were talking about this morning? You were talking about that you had a Bentley, he gave you a Bentley?

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: You said you paid for half of it.

HARRIS: I paid for half.

BEHAR: Where did you get the money to pay for half of a Bentley? A Bentley cost $200,000.

HARRIS: Just -- working, "playboy" stuff, we did a season of "the girls next door."

BEHAR: Oh, so you saved it up and bought a Bentley?

HARRIS: Yes, allowance from Hef.

BEHAR: Did he give you an allowance?

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: He did. He likes you, though. He wanted to marry you.

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: Why didn`t you want to marry him at the end of the day? I mean it`s obvious to me, but you tell me why.

HARRIS: I mean, I --

BEHAR: Not for nothing. He`s 60 years older than you.

HARRIS: Yes --

BEHAR: What were you thinking?

HARRIS: I mean, I -- I love Hef, I care about him. I still care about him. And I mean, at the end of the day it wasn`t the right thing to do. I was caught up in it, and, you know, there are women around. Didn`t make sense to have more than one girlfriend, but then get married to one of them. Didn`t make sense.

BEHAR: Well, was that his plan, to have all these girlfriends and be married to you at the same time?

HARRIS: I think so.

BEHAR: How much Viagra can one man ingest? Did you ever, like, think I`m going to hide his little pill? Think of that?

HARRIS: Replace them with sugar pills or something -- no, no.

BEHAR: Yes. And just show him some aversion therapy from movies you know, show him NATZI films or something. So he wouldn`t come near you.

So what was it with Hef? You know the guy. What is it with him that he can`t have a woman around his own age? Why can`t he be with a woman who`s not 85, maybe 75?

HARRIS: I`m not sure. I mean, I asked him the same thing. He`s said he`s always loved women in his - in their 20s.

BEHAR: He only loves women in their 20s. But it`s like a dog chasing a car. He`s never going to catch it. I love the guy. He`s very -- Hef is a big pioneer in the sex industry.

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: I mean he really opened people`s minds about sexuality. You have to understand, in my day when I was your age, people did not talk about sex the way they do -- the way they do nowadays. He gave us that.

HARRIS: Now, they made it OK.

BEHAR: He really did. No matter much Metamucil he`s on.

Now, let`s talk about the sixth season of "Girls Next Door," released on DVD.

And that`s you`re here promoting that, but you`re no longer living in the mansion. So are you cut out of season seven?

HARRIS: I think it was a six-part series. I think "The Girls Next Door" is no more. I`m not exactly sure. But it was fun while it lasted.

BEHAR: So what`s your next move? What goals do you have?

HARRIS: Day by day. I have no idea. I have no idea. I just -- I had a small part in a movie recently. And just seeing what happens.

BEHAR: There was a woman we had on; I think she was the playmate of the year. She was on here, and she didn`t have very nice things to say about you. Do you who she is?

HARRIS: Yes, I know who she is. She`s never had nice things to say.

BEHAR: She was nastyish about you.

HARRIS: I`ve never had a bad word to say about her, nor will I ever.

BEHAR: Keep it like that, you`re better off.

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: Before I go, I just - did you ever have actual sex with Hefner?

HARRIS: Yes. Sure.

BEHAR: I was asked before -- I`m different. You actually did?

HARRIS: Did I have sex --

BEHAR: Yes. People out there want to know, did you actually sleep with him, and he`s 85 and you`re 25.

HARRIS: When I first got there.

BEHAR: You did?

HARRIS: Yes.

BEHAR: And what was of it -- what it was like?

HARRIS: I don`t know. Everything works the same. I don`t know.

BEHAR: OK. You know, he says he may have dodged a bullet. That`s not nice to say about you.

HARRIS: I mean, he says a lot of things. He loves twitter, and he doesn`t realize what he types goes to a million people or whoever, however many people follow him.

BEHAR: Can he hear? I hear he`s losing his hearing. I heard he is. So, you know, when you whisper sweet nothings, you really have to whisper sweet nothings.

HARRIS: Sweet nothings to him.

BEHAR: Thanks for doing this, Crystal. Good luck to you. "The Girls Next Door" Season six is out now and DVD.

We`ll be back in a minute.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BEHAR: We saw comedienne Judy Gold earlier in the show and despite of our requests, she just won`t leave. She`s the star now of a new of Broadway show, "the Judy show, my life is a sitcom" and more importantly my pal.

So happy to have you back here. So let`s talk about the show. I saw it, it`s terrific.

GOLD: Thank you.

BEHAR: You should all go out and see it. You wrote in it, you star in it. You`re so self-absorbed.

(LAUGHTER)

BEHAR: You wrote the whole thing, you star in it, you sing in it.

GOLD: I wrote it with Bob Smith and Eric Cornfeld. It was a long process, years and years.

BEHAR: Years?

GOLD: It took me years to do this. And you know it`s my journey. It tells the whole story of my life and how I was addicted to sitcoms growing up because you know I wasn`t in love with my family. I wanted to run away to the Brady house and the partridge family bus. I wanted to go to the project on "good times" and be anywhere I was. And I love the shows there, such an impact on me that I thought when I grew up, I was going to be on one of these shows.

BEHAR: Now, when you tell that to your mother, I really want to escape your house, how does she feel about it?

GOLD: I haven`t really discussed it with her. She hasn`t seen the show yet. But my sister`s coming this week. I can`t wait.

BEHAR: Just tell her it`s made up. She watches the show, doesn`t she?

GOLD: She loves you. It`s unbelievable.

BEHAR: Now, what is this that when you were watching "Laverne and Shirley," you thought you might be a lesbian? Is that true?

GOLD: No, I thought I was a lesbian before.

BEHAR: How about Cagney and Lacy?

GOLD: No, Cagney and Lacy that was a fake. I know, really. I thought that was a gay show. Didn`t you think that Laverne and Shirley was kind of a gay?

BEHAR: It was a very gay show but I never thought they were gay with each other.

GOLD: You know I don`t know. There were other characters I thought were gayer like on "Bewitched," Aunt Hilda. Not that she was gay but gays loved her, this over the top kind of thing.

BEHAR: How about Agnes Morehead.

(LAUGHTER)

GOLD: I don`t think she wanted to give more.

BEHAR: She was one of the witches.

GOLD: Yes. That`s true. Wow!

BEHAR: It`s one of those games like Anthony Weiner. You give a shout out in the show to Governor Andrew Cuomo for legalizing. He`s been our hero, hasn`t he?

GOLD: He`s been - as I say, this homo is for Cuomo. I can`t - I mean he got it done. He really got it done. He really got a time. And now, the next this I`m going to get a gay family on television. How great with that thing?

BEHAR: Well, you have the best sitcom. Where is the show?

GOLD: the show is at the DR2 Theater which on 15th street.

BEHAR: And people should go see "the Judy show, my life is a sitcom" at the DR Theater in New York right now through September 10th she`ll there been.

It`s a terrific, terrific show. Thank you.

GOLD: Thank you.

BEHAR: Before we go, don`t forget CNN and HLN are the very first news networks in the United States to stream 24-hour news online and on mobile, which means even if you`re not sitting in front of a TV, you can watch live, including breaking news.

Check out CNN.com/video to find out how.

Thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.

END