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Joy Behar Page
Interview with Ann Coulter; Secrets of a Polygamous Sect
Aired July 29, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ANNOUNCER: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Congressman David Wu says he`ll resign over an inappropriate sexual encounter with a teen. We`ll hear what Ann Coulter has to say about the latest scandal to hit Washington.
Then, polygamous leader Warren Jeffs is on trial, charged with sexually assaulting two underage girls. With 10,000 women in his church, what makes women stay? Joy will talk to two former members to learn about life on the inside.
Plus Joy talks with runaway bride Crystal Harris, the Playboy playmate who left Hugh Hefner days before their wedding.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: My favorite frenemy Ann Coulter was so much fun earlier this week, we taped an extra segment, which is why we`re wearing the same clothes. Her latest book, "Demonic: How the liberal mob is endangering America", is in stores now.
Welcome back, Ann, with another segment.
ANN COULTER, TALK SHOW HOST: So good to see you again. You look very much the way you looked the other day.
BEHAR: Anyway, let`s talk about a congressman who`s in trouble and a Democrat because you`ll love this. David Wu of Oregon is resigning because of a sex scandal. What is it with politicians and sex scandals?
COULTER: I can totally explain that.
BEHAR: Tell me. What is it?
COULTER: Many politicians couldn`t get a girl to kiss them in high school and then finally they have power, and they just go hog wild because it has nothing do with power. I hate this idea. Oh, powerful men -- Ronald Reagan was the most powerful man in the universe, but he could get a girl to kiss him in high school.
BEHAR: I see.
COULTER: There`s always dorks like --
BEHAR: So, like Anthony Weiner you think couldn`t get a girl to kiss him --
COULTER: Weiner, Chubby Clinton, whose big moment on the football field involved a clarinet. Who else -- Newt Gingrich.
BEHAR: Let`s not forget the chubby, chubby Chuckie.
COULTER: Right.
BEHAR: Doesn`t he look like Chuckie? Like he`s going to come out and stab everybody like the doll, Chuckie.
COULTER: And representative Wu and if you don`t put up that picture of him in the tiger outfit --
BEHAR: Let`s see the picture of him in the tiger suit from the "Wilmette Week", whatever that is. So there he is. It`s never a good idea to play dress up when you`re a politician.
COULTER: No, and he sent this around to his staffers.
BEHAR: Yes.
COULTER: And consequently a whole slew of staffers resigned when that happened. He was sending them these wacky e-mails so he`s a little unbalanced. But he`s accused of sexually assaulting the teenage daughter of a --
BEHAR: 18-year-old.
COULTER: Oh, ok. A contributor, but I think people may be misunderstanding, that could have been part of the donation.
BEHAR: But he`s resigning quickly. Anthony Weiner dragged it out.
COULTER: Don`t you wish he were back?
BEHAR: I do. Right now. I would have him on discussing the debt ceiling and really trashing an attacking the Republicans, right? And he would be interesting --
COULTER: That isn`t why I wanted him back. I want to hold the daily press conference and say he can`t confirm or deny if the pecker is his. Come back Anthony Weiner --
BEHAR: That`s right. But I mean I think he was interesting television. He was always out, like a good liberal in that way, I thought.
COULTER: You still got Chuck Schumer.
BEHAR: He`s not as bombastic.
COULTER: They`re identical.
BEHAR: No, no, no. You were just crazy --
COULTER: Other than the pecker pose.
BEHAR: The other day -- in the previous segment you were praising Governor Christie for being like that and I think Weiner is like that on the other side. He would tell people to go hell.
COULTER: No, I think it`s very different. Who would I pick of the Democrats? Actually there are a lot of -- sadly they turn out wrong and evil but there are a lot of articulate Democrats.
BEHAR: Yes, articulate is good on the Democratic side.
COULTER: Yes. Very annoying.
BEHAR: Now, let`s talk about Rupert Murdoch for a minute here. I know you`re not allowed to talk about him on Fox but --
COULTER: I do not work for Fox.
BEHAR: When you go there, are you allowed to bring up his name?
COULTER: My point on this -- by the way, I don`t think I`ve ever drawn a check from the Murdoch empire; the Harper Collins the publisher, killed my book, "Slander", the number one book all summer that year. I`m not published in the "Wall Street Journal and the "New York Post" so this is not -- and I don`t work for Fox News. So this isn`t bias at all.
But I do find it very peculiar that this little tabloid paper, that`s one percent of his empire, turns into a huge scandal. Why wasn`t Dan Rather putting, you know, phony National Guard documents on television in the middle -- a month before presidential election --
BEHAR: He was fired for that, Dan Rather.
COULTER: Ok. Why wasn`t the Les Moonves scandal. Right? Nobody thinks about the Les Moonves and I promise you the main anchor of CBS News is a bigger parts of CBS`s empire than tiny, little --
BEHAR: Look, I have no answer to that --
COULTER: It`s because the left hates Fox News and they`re obsessed --
BEHAR: No, that`s not -- forget the left. This is happening in Britain. It`s not even happening in this country.
COULTER: Right. But it`s happening in the pages of "The New York Times" that are obsessed with it because they hate Murdoch because they hate Fox News.
BEHAR: They`re not obsessed, they`re talking a about what`s going on in the world. The "New York Post" says not word one about this because Rupert Murdoch owns the paper.
COULTER: No, it`s because --
BEHAR: isn`t that worse than covering the story?
COULTER: No, the only story here is the media`s obsession with Rupert Murdoch. I mean now we know that --
BEHAR: I don`t think it`s their obsession with Rupert Murdoch, it`s their obsession with that much power. He was going to buy SkyNews -- he owns too much.
COULTER: This was one percent of the News Corps empire.
BEHAR: It`s a monopoly that he had. Too much power.
COULTER: In any event. Now other tabloids in Britain are being brought in, "The Daily Mirror", it sounds like.
BEHAR: Yes.
COULTER: Who owns "The Daily Mirror"? Do we hear about it? No, it`s only because it`s Murdoch, one percent of Murdoch`s empire.
BEHAR: Well, there you go. I mean they made the mistake of hacking into the phone of that dead girl, the dead girl`s family.
COULTER: And the "New York Times" has printed hacked phone calls back 15 years ago when some union goon hacked into Newt Gingrich`s phone call with Republican leadership. They printed it on the front page, and their lawyers defended printing this hacked phone calls. It`s a complete --
BEHAR: We`re talking about now. If you want to go into history, there`s tit for tat on every side. We`re talking about right now.
COULTER: Oh, yes. The liberal position history begins today.
BEHAR: Well, your side are exactly the ones who don`t like us to blame George Bush for all the misery that we`re in, in this country, which, of course, he`s responsible for.
COULTER: No, but I think it`s fine for you to say George Bush initiated a lot of stupid spending programs, i.e., prescription drug care. Something my newspaper and by the way, all my friends attacked him for, for eight years. I agree with that.
BEHAR: What about conducting a war without any tax increases. They`ve never heard of that in this country before.
COULTER: Well, because Joy --
BEHAR: Didn`t that take (EXPLETIVE DELETED).
COULTER: Because we believe -- well, I mean you can raise taxes on some people. For example, Warren Buffett, Bill Gates, and Bill Gates` father, and every other billionaire who calls for tax hikes.
BEHAR: And they will be. They don`t mind.
COULTER: Raising taxes on the vast majority of Americans which is small businessmen, reduces economic growth, reduces revenues to the government. That`s what you want, revenue to the government.
BEHAR: I know the argument. And I think that it`s a very interesting argument. If you cut taxes, you have more job creation.
But let me ask you a question because I`m just sitting here watching the train go by. How come in the past 12 years there`s been no job growth? We`ve had the lowest tax rate for everybody in the past 12 years. Of why? So where are the jobs?
COULTER: Jobs are growing like mad in Washington, D.C. and their salaries are all going up because that`s what --
BEHAR: You`re not answering the question.
COULTER: I am answering the question. That`s what Obama is doing. He`s increasing the size of government to the exclusion of the private sector. When you`re sending out a trillion dollars --
BEHAR: That doesn`t make sense to me. That doesn`t make sense. If you`re saying that you cut taxes and therefore you have job creation, there has been no job creation in the private sector even though all those companies have the lowest tax rate in the history of this country since 1950.
COULTER: Well, there are other things that can hurt job creation like endless regulations, like a 2,000-page health care bill --
BEHAR: Do you not -- let me ask you -- you don`t like regulations? I mean look at what happens all the time when you deregulate. They`re deregulating the airline industry. Do you want to go on a plane that is deregulated FAA?
COULTER: No, it`s not an abstract position of zero regulation or some sort of regulation. It`s eight billion regulations, it`s OSHA, it`s trial lawyers, it`s the health care bill. This week both the head of Home Depot and -- who was the other -- Steve Winn saying we couldn`t have started these businesses when we did, and employed all these people, became multimillionaires because there are too many regulations. That`s what I`m saying. It`s --
(CROSSTALK)
COULTER: -- way too much on moderate thinking.
BEHAR: I don`t think that there`s moderate thinking going on in the country now.
COULTER: No, of course we want some regulation, but it`s -- it`s insanity now. You can`t start a business without --
BEHAR: It seems to me that all the deregulation that went on during the past 25 years is what brought us to the brink of disaster economically right now.
COULTER: No, no. You`re talking about, what, like airline deregulation?
BEHAR: The banks, the banks, the banks.
COULTER: Let`s talk about just the one massive --
BEHAR: How about the banks?
COULTER: -- increase in regulation that we got from Obama -- health care. How would you like to start a restaurant trying to figure out how much you`re going to have to pay for each employee`s health care?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It must really tick you off, though, that he got that health care legislation through. I mean no. If Truman tried it, Eisenhower probably tried it, no one has ever been able to do it, he did it. That must bust your chaps.
COULTER: And look at the great thing it`s done for the economy.
BEHAR: We don`t know yet what it`s going to do to the economy.
COULTER: Yes, we do.
BEHAR: No we don`t.
COULTER: No one can start a business because they can`t deal with it. And they`ll be just saying they can`t even pay for Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, now we have another entitlement? There`s no money left.
BEHAR: It may not be perfect, Ann, but at least we`re on the road to getting something done in health care.
COULTER: No, we aren`t.
BEHAR: You`d just rather wipe the whole thing out and never get it done. He snuck it in and it bugs you people.
COULTER: Snuck it in? I think people know this. Yes, it bugs Republicans, why we`re planning on repealing it.
BEHAR: Yes. I think that it`s interesting that you stick up for Rupert Murdoch though. Did you have an affair with him or something?
What do you think about -- what about the --
COULTER: But I`m not. I`m saying it`s madness of the mainstream media because they`re obsessed with Fox News.
BEHAR: Can I just say something to you? The fish stinks from the head, ok. I have to go. Thanks --
COULTER: It`s one percent of his empire.
BEHAR: -- for sticking around.
COULTER: I`m holding you responsible --
BEHAR: I love you. You`re just the greatest on this show. The book is called "Demonic: the liberal mob is endangering America", yes, right.
Ok. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back talking about Warren Jeffs, the leader of the controversial Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints. And still with me is Flora Jessop, a former victim of a polygamist community. Joining me also is Laurie Allen who was also a former victim of a polygamist sect and the producer of "Banking on Heaven," a documentary about the abuse and corruption in America`s polygamist sects. Plus Bethany Marshall, psychoanalyst and author.
Ok, Laurie, we`re talking about young girls being abused by men in these sects. What happens to women who rebel?
LAURIE ALLEN, FORMER VICTIM OF A POLYGAMOUS COMMUNITY: Oh, dear. Women who rebel are just abused to the nth degree. I mean if you`re not -- you`re either committed to a mental institution like Ruth Cooke, the epic woman in my film who was rebellious and just -- was they -- they all ganged up on her including her mother and they just had her committed.
Carolyn Jessop, who was also rebellious, was just watched. Like you`re watched like a hawk. It`s a -- it`s a whole espionage system where everybody`s snitching on everybody. And it`s -- it`s horrible. If you don`t do exactly what you`re told, you are just treated like you`re the lowest thing on this earth. It`s very abusive.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s like a -- it`s like a fascist state. It sounds like.
Bethany is this --
(CROSSTALK)
ALLEN: It is.
BEHAR: Yes, is Jeffs using his religion to act out pedophile fantasies, do you think? Because you know, it`s all about religion, they`re going to go to heaven and all this other stuff -- PS, he`s molesting children. Yes. Go ahead.
(CROSSTALK)
BETHANY MARSHALL, PSYCHOANALYST: Oh this is just cult -- no, this is not a religious cult. This is a paradise for sex offenders. Let`s be honest.
ALLEN: Absolutely.
MARSHALL: And he has all the qualities of a sociopath pedophile. He has a parasitic lifestyle in that he gets welfare from the state. He relates to others on the basis of power rather than affection. He shoves his ideas into others just like a pedophile shoves his sexuality into children.
We think of Phillip Garrido, I think as a good mini me of Warren Jeffs because what Garrido did was he -- he kidnapped Jaycee Dugard, but then he recruited another woman with severe character pathology to act as the enforcer.
ALLEN: Absolutely.
MARSHALL: And that`s what we see in these cults and that what`s Flora Jessop was talking about, that her own mother aided and abetted Warren and her father in sexually molesting her. So you have the more personality- disordered women rising to the top in these cults, and then dominating the more vulnerable women.
And so it becomes similar to like David Koresh and the Branch Davidians, it`s no longer a religious cult, it`s really a sex cult.
BEHAR: Right, it probably always was in this guy`s mind anyway.
MARSHALL: Yes.
ALLEN: Always was.
BEHAR: Yes.
Ok now Flora, you say you were taught that emotion is evil. Explain to me what that -- what that was.
FLORA JESSOP, FORMER VICTIM OF A POLYGAMOUS COMMUNITY: Absolutely. You have to realize any family where you have multiple women sharing one man, if you have anger, if you have sadness, if you have jealousy, you -- and you express those, you are committing the -- the most evil of evils in creating chaos in the home. You aren`t keeping sweet and being submissive.
And so in order to stop that you are taught from a young child that emotion is bad, emotion is evil. They train the children -- I grew up watching them waterboard babies in my own home and in many of the other homes --
BEHAR: Oh God.
JESSOP: -- in order to teach them not to cry. They -- and this happens not -- not just the waterboarding but it happens on some extent in the other cults, as well in different varying degrees.
So as a child when you`re taught not to have emotion, you learn to suppress those emotions. And when you do have an emotional outburst or when you do rebel, that makes your punishment twice as bad and twice as devastating.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So but -- but Bethany, it`s not like you don`t have the emotion, you just can`t express it, it sounds like, or you`ll be waterboarded or tortured in some way, right?
MARSHALL: Absolutely.
(CROSSTALK)
MARSHALL: You know what, it`s much more severe than not being able to express it. These women are dissociated. They -- they do not even have access to their emotions. And Joy, you know because you`re a mom, when your little child feels that -- felt that the bogeyman was under the bed or in the closet; that really crippled their ability to feel safe at night. What if the bogeyman is under the bed or the bogeyman is in the closet?
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Oh it`s a horror, absolutely.
MARSHALL: And that terrorizes you. And that`s why Ruth -- Ruth Cooke had a mental breakdown is because this then predisposes these members to psychiatric issues.
BEHAR: And -- and Laurie in your movie you say that the sect is turning women into zombies. What are -- tell us more about that.
ALLEN: Yes. That`s -- that`s Warren Jeffs` sister that says that, Elaine Jeffs. How they program you from the time you`re very young to not have any emotions. And that`s part of the waterboarding that Flora was talking about because basically they strip you of two fundamental rights. And that is self-determinism and free will.
By the time you`re just a young child, even by the time you`re 9, 10 years old, you`ve been -- all of that has been stripped away. They`re literally building a culture of sociopaths and people who don`t even look out for each other. There`s no human emotion left and this is how a woman --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: One other thing -- yes.
But Laurie -- Laurie, one of the things that`s outrageous -- wait a minute -- one of the things that`s outrageous that you said was that he gets assistance from the state? Somebody said that. I mean that --
ALLEN: Yes.
BEHAR: Tell me about that for just a minute. And then I`ll ask Bethany another question. Laurie, do you know about that?
ALLEN: Yes. Attorney General Terry Goddard of Arizona says in my film "Banking on Heaven", 80 percent of the cult is on welfare. Over 4,000 of them are on access to state medical --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Does anybody go there to check -- check out -- check up on them?
ALLEN: They don`t -- this is what we don`t understand, why aren`t they cracking down on this? $20 million to $30 million a year of Arizona taxpayers is going to support this cult and nobody will do anything about it.
BEHAR: Well, hopefully this will put an end to it.
We`ll be right back with more on this topic after this short break. Stay there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back talking about the trial of Warren Jeffs.
Now, Flora, your mother and sister are still with the sect. How come they can`t leave, Flora? Tell me.
JESSOP: Well, you have to understand that -- for instance, myself, I was one of the first girls that ever got out of the FLDS. And because of that, my sisters were very closely monitored.
My mother, this is all she`s known, and I have not been allowed to speak with my mother in over ten years. This is very common. I get told routinely that my mother is being punished every day because I`m speaking out.
Now you have to understand that when you`re a mother in this culture, you are taught that it`s your job to make your children submissive, that it`s your job to make sure they stay within the group and become submissive, sweet wives. So when you fail in that, the sin is automatically on your shoulders.
But they -- you know, it -- it creates this situation where the women need to -- this is partly why I`m pushing that the women need to be prosecuted on some level. Because they have got to as mothers protects the babies or the cycle never gets broken.
BEHAR: But you say they tell you that the mothers are being punished. Why can`t you call police and have them go in and charge these people with assault?
JESSOP: Joy, you have to understand that in these FLDS communities, they own the police department. They are the police department. All members of the police force are members of the FLDS. They are not upholding regular outside law. They are upholding doctrinal faith of the FLDS prophet. They are not -- they will not even serve subpoenas for the courts outside of the community.
BEHAR: You know, Bethany, I wanted to ask you because the women do stay. And it`s obviously brainwashing that goes on. Can you give me a really quick snapshot of what`s happening there in their heads?
MARSHALL: I would say something called shared paranoia. And that is that the cult leader makes them believe, they inculcate a type of social phobia; that the outside world is bad, it`s terrifying, and you`ll never survive out there.
That`s what we saw with Jaycee Dugard. She felt that her children would be raped and tortured if she left Phillip Garrido. And then also when we`re little, our parents put into us what we`re going to think about ourselves in the world.
So since these women themselves were little babies, they were put into themselves -- what was put into them was that sexual impropriety was very appropriate. And, you know, we learn our ability to protect ourselves from our own mothers. When our mothers protect us, we can protect ourselves. And then we protect our own children.
None of these girls grew up in an attachment system where they could learn to protect themselves and others.
BEHAR: Laurie does that make sense to you, what she just said. Laurie?
ALLEN: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Both of you?
ALLEN: Yes, that`s exactly what happens.
BEHAR: And how do -- Bethany, again, I`ll close with this. Quickly, how do the victims recover from this? Is it possible to have a full recovery from some kind of experience like this?
MARSHALL: It is possible to have a full recovery. Only have friendships with people who validate your reality. Seek education, an active, fertile mind is very therapeutic. Seek out relationships with people who love you. We have incredible neuro-plasticity which means that our brains change and grow in the context of attachment systems where we have positive emotional experiences.
You can get better and you can survive. But find a new community that`s better than the old one.
BEHAR: All right. Thank you very much, ladies.
We`re going to be watching this story because it really is just an incredible thing.
And we`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Remember back in May when "Lost" actor Doug Hutchison who`s 51 married 16-year-old Courtney Stodden in Vegas with her parents` permission, of course? Well, the couple recently talked to "e online" about their sex love.
Let`s watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DOUG HUTCHISON, ACTOR: Courtney was a Christian and saving herself for marriage. And you know, I got to say if there`s only one caveat to our -- the ocean between our age difference, I wished I was a virgin when we met. And - because I think --
COURTNEY STODDEN, DOUG HUTCHISON`S ACTOR: It`s fine that he wasn`t. Whatever. He`s a tiger.
HUTCHISON: God. You`re so bad.
(END VIDOE CLIP)
BEHAR: You`re so bad. Here to discuss this and other pop culture stories in the news are Melissa Joan Hart, star of ABC family`s "Melissa and Joey." Rob Shuter, an AOL`s Popeater columnist, and Judy Gold, comedienne and star of "the Judy show: my life as a sitcom."
OK. Rob, do you believe she was a virgin on or wedding night? That`s my --
(LAUGHTER)
ROB SHUTER, COLUMNIST, AOL`S POEATER: I don`t know -- say she is you`ve got to believe her. I think she might have been if she says that she is --
MELISSA JOAN HART, STAR, "MELISSA AND JOEY": She`s only 16 so she can`t be far off from a virgin, right? Can`t be that far --
BEHAR: She is not 16, there`s no way she`s 16.
JUDY GOLD, COMMEDIAN AND STAR, "THE JUDY SHOW: MY LIFE AS A SITCOM": I don`t know. She looks like a playmate to me. I had no idea that`s what she looked like. It makes sense -- Hugh Hefner, playmate --
What do they talk about like at night -- I`m sorry, honey, I have a math test and you your prostate exam tomorrow. What do they talk about?
BEHAR: What about that he`s a tiger in bed?
GOLD: That`s gross.
BEHAR: Tigers sleep 22 hours a day.
(CROSSTALK)
SHUTER: It`s odd that they`re doing these interviews. They don`t have to do this. They`re clearly loving, us talking about her, and I don`t think they`re going to shuts up any time soon.
HART: I want to know who introduced them. I feel like because of his age -- were they at a mixer and they hung -- I feel like her mom -- it must have her mom.
GOLD: I heard she volunteers at a nursing home, and he was in the hallway screaming.
HART: Never done anything like the mom --
BEHAR: Let me say one thing about him. He claims that his career is on a roll. Is that true?
SHUTER: I think a lot of people mistake attention for career progression. So I think somebody that`s disappeared from the public eye for a sometime is back in the public eye.
BEHAR: So this relationship has put him back?
SHUTER: In the public eye.
BEHAR: The publicity has worked for him.
SHUTER: Well, he hasn`t got a job yet. Plus, here we are talking about him.
BEHAR: Now, she`s an aspiring singer. She`s represented by Doug`s management company, his management company. Do you think she can sing? Have you heard her sing?
SHUTER: I`ve not heard her sing.
(LAUGHTER)
HART: She looks hot in the video, though. I don`t know.
SHUTER: Pretty girl.
GOLD: Yes. She`s not 16.
If she`s 16, I`m 5`2", OK?
BEHAR: Listen, if she`s as young looking as those kids on "toddlers and tiaras." OK.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: OK. Let`s talk about former Congressman Anthony Weiner. Apparently he started therapy for the sex addiction, and he says there are three women he`s accountable to. Four if you count Barney Frank. But his manager --
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I apologize, Barney, that`s a cheat shot. His mother, these are the four women, his mother, his wife Huma, and his wife`s boss -- three, rather -- who happens to be secretary of state Hillary Clinton.
Now, I mean I`d be frightened of Hillary, too, wouldn`t you?
GOLD: I can`t believe he sexted Hillary Clinton.
BEHAR: He did not --
GOLD: No, I`m kidding.
BEHAR: Stop that.
Huma. Yes. Got to have a good sense of Huma, she`s been keeping a low profile, the woman.
SHUTER: She disappeared. We haven`t seen at all. She works for Hillary Clinton. We`ve seen a lot of Hillary, we used to always see her in the shadows or next to Hillary, and she`s disappeared for at least a couple of months. Nobody really knows where she is.
BEHAR: Do you think she`s going to leave him, Melissa? Would you if you were --
HART: No, because they`re in politics. You can`t -- Look at Hillary. She`s still with Bill, right? I mean you stay with each other so you have this political platform of being the happy married couple.
BEHAR: But I don`t know that she needs to do that. I think she`s staying with him because she`s pregnant. And she -- I hear that she`s madly in love with him.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: So I think he`s cute. I think that that was a crazy period he went through. He`ll get out of it now.
SHUTER: You`re just saying that.
BEHAR: I am not just saying that.
SHUTER: He just started texting for a month --
BEHAR: I think there`s something nutsy that went on with him and he`s got to get out of it now.
HART: I think it`s a little bit of an addiction, the sex thing and all of that stuff, you get carried away. It`s a little bit of fun. But he should have known who he was and what he was doing.
GOLD: He`s got this amazing job, and he`s taking picture of his --
HART: And gorgeous wife.
GOLD: And taking pictures, ridiculous.
BEHAR: That shows lack of judgment.
GOLD: I send one picture of my penis to a person and didn`t get the result that I wanted.
SHUTER: Stop it. The shocking picture.
BEHAR: Now he has -- he`s been texting pictures like these that we`ve been showing, from biggovernment.com and TMZ.
Exactly what do they do in sex rehab? What do they do? They like attach a beeper to your Schmeckel? What do they do, Rob?
SHUTER: I think they talk about why you do this and why this pattern of behavior is destructive. And I think like taking drugs or alcohol, abuse is abuse. And I think this is probably what they focus on.
HART: I think sex addiction sounds like a little bits of -- I don`t know. Like everyone going to, you go to the hospital because you`re dehydrated. Because you drank so much and did so much blow that you --
SHUTER: Right.
HART: It`s like the new --
BEHAR: I love this angel saying you took too much blow. I love it.
HART: No, really -- another excuse for --
BEHAR: He didn`t have sex with them, though.
GOLD: No, he never had sex with --
HART: You can do a lot worse things with a penis than take a picture.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I won`t touch that. You know what, it`s so like low to be an exhibitionist. I think how much more demented can you get than showing your jewels to the world. It`s so crazy.
SHUTER: They do love themselves. Egos tend to be large.
HART: But not everyone wants to know known for the size of your penis.
HOLD: How did he not think he`d get caught?
BEHAR: I don`t know.
Let`s go to another one, another texter, Brett Favre.
Now, he also sent a picture of his mister happy to somebody. And he`s coming out of retirement to play for the Philadelphia eagles. How come he gets away with it -?
GOLD: He was wearing a cup --
BEHAR: I think Anthony Weiner doesn`t get away with it because of his name. Weiner.
(CROSSTALK)
HART: Oh, my god!
BEHAR: All the little angels on this show turn into potty-mouths.
HART: We did a play together, and I learned it from her.
BEHAR: Let`s talk about gay marriage for a second because New York`s gay marriage law went into effect yesterday. Hundreds of couples were married in New York City.
It was great to hear judges say "I now pronounce yous guys," whatever.
Now you two have openly, I think -- aren`t you -- no? Judy, you`re openly a lesbian.
GOLD: Uh-huh. No, yes, I am. I am.
BEHAR: Are you going to get married now?
GOLD: You know, I would love to get married. I really would love to get married. And now what`s great about this gay marriage thing is now gay people can have real anniversaries and not just tell people it`s the date of the first time they did it because that was -- that is usually the gay anniversary until you get married. Yes --
BEHAR: That`s funny.
GOLD: It`s true.
BEHAR: Not everybody`s happy about gay marriage. Some on the right are criticizing. Of course we know, Michele Bachmann and the rest of us.
But gay rights legend Larry Kramer is not happy. May I read a quote? He says, "These marriages in whichever state are what I call feel-good marriages compared to the benefits heterosexual marriages convey. Gay marriages are an embarrassment that we should accept so little and with so much hoopla of excitement and self-congratulations." What do you make of that?
SHUTER: Larry? Larry`s angry, and --
GOLD: I actually --
SHUTER: Old and move on. Larry, Larry.
BEHAR: You know, surviving spouses are subject to huge inheritance taxes.
GOLD: Yes, I have to say, I agree -- I have such mixed feelings about gay marriage because you get no Social Security benefits, you pay inheritance tax, 1,128 benefits that heterosexual marriages, they get these benefits from the federal government. Even if you write you`re married on a census form, you`re still not acknowledged as married --
SHUTER: It`s a stepping stone.
GOLD: I know, but it`s really getting annoying. Casey Anthony could get married and be acknowledged by the federal government, and I can`t. You know --
BEHAR: True. That`s true.
GOLD: Annoying.
BEHAR: I look at the heterosexual marriages that are just ridiculous.
Mel Gibson and Arnold Schwarzenegger. John Edwards -- you name it.
GOLD: What about Britney Spears is married for 55 hours, that`s fine? These people have been together 50, 60 years? I`m sorry --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do we have time for another topic? OK.
Jefferson County, Colorado, says that the first amendment protects the right to view sexually explicit material. So porn is legal in public libraries.
Does this mean that in addition to no talking now there`s going to be no moaning? OK.
(LAUGHTER)
Never mind. So what do you think about that? I mean it`s now legal too. If you`re in a library now, you can now view explicit material, possibly porn.
You like that idea or not?
HART: Anybody? If there was a child walking by and someone was masturbating --
BEHAR: There was that.
HART: I think they need a locked room at the video store --not just the curtain, a locked room. So, you have to get the key not to embarrass yourself, go to the librarian and say can I have the key to the --
GOLD: I think it`s going to be really odd for parents to be like, if I catch you in that library again, you`re grounded. You know?
BEHAR: True. The library was a sanctuary.
GOLD: Right. It was where you wanted your kid to go.
BEHAR: The place to read "the Velveteen Rabbit."
GOLD: Now you`ll touch the Velveteen Rabbit, stroke it.
BEHAR: All right.
Before we go on any further with this woman, I say thank you to my panel. And you can see Melissa Joan Hart in "Melissa and Joey", Wednesdays at 8:00 p.m. on ABC family.
We will be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: What happens when you`re engaged to a cultural icon who`s 60 years older than you are? When you`re my guest, you leave him five days before the wedding.
Of course, it could have been worse, she could have left him at the park feeding ducks.
Let`s welcome the woman who said "I don`t" to Hugh Hefner, Crystal Harris.
Hello my dear. Good to see you again. I saw you this morning.
CRYSTAL HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: We went over a few things. You kept the ring.
HARRIS: I have the ring still.
BEHAR: Because -- because Hef, what, didn`t want it back?
HARRIS: He -- he didn`t want it back. He said I could keep it. I still have it. I don`t know what to do with it. Maybe make it into a necklace or something.
BEHAR: Yes. How many carats is it?
HARRIS: Three and a half
BEHAR: Oh, my dear. That`s worth a lot of money. Are you sure it`s real? You need to get that appraised, Crystal.
And let me ask you another question, did you have a pre-nup? Of course you did.
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: How much were you going to get in the pre-nup?
HARRIS: I would end up making more money if I would have stayed and gone through with the wedding.
BEHAR: But because you didn`t, you get cut out of everything except the ring?
HARRIS: Yes. But I`m fine with that. Being there made me realize that money isn`t the most important thing in life.
BEHAR: Right. Freedom`s just another word to keep the ring. Wait a second. How about the Bentley that you were talking about this morning? You were talking about that you had a Bentley, he gave you a Bentley?
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: You said you paid for half of it.
HARRIS: I paid for half.
BEHAR: Where did you get the money to pay for half of a Bentley? A Bentley cost $200,000.
HARRIS: Just -- working, "Playboy" stuff, we did a season of "The Girls Next Door."
BEHAR: Oh, so you saved it up and bought a Bentley?
HARRIS: Yes, allowance from Hef.
BEHAR: Did he give you an allowance?
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: He did. He likes you, though. He wanted to marry you.
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: Why didn`t you want to marry him at the end of the day? I mean, it`s obvious to me, but you tell me why.
HARRIS: I mean, I --
BEHAR: Not for nothing. He`s 60 years older than you.
HARRIS: Yes --
BEHAR: What were you thinking?
HARRIS: I mean, I -- I love Hef, I care about him. I still care about him. And I mean, at the end of the day it wasn`t the right thing to do. I was caught up in it, and, you know, there are women around. Didn`t make sense to have more than one girlfriend, but then get married to one of them. Didn`t make sense.
BEHAR: Well, was that his plan, to have all these girlfriends and be married to you at the same time?
HARRIS: I think so.
BEHAR: How much Viagra can one man ingest? Did you ever, like, think I`m going to hide his little pill? Ever think of that?
HARRIS: Replace them with sugar pills or something -- no, no.
BEHAR: Yes. And just show him some aversion therapy from movies you know, show him Nazi films or something. So he wouldn`t come near you.
So what was it with Hef? You know the guy. What is it with him that he can`t have a woman around his own age? Why can`t he be with a woman who`s not 85, maybe 75?
HARRIS: I`m not sure. I mean, I asked him the same thing. He`s said he`s always loved women in his -- in their 20s.
BEHAR: He only loves women in their 20s. But it`s like a dog chasing a car. He`s never going to catch it. I love the guy. He`s very -- Hef is a big pioneer in the sex industry.
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean he really opened people`s minds about sexuality. You have to understand, in my day when I was your age, people did not talk about sex the way they do -- the way they do nowadays. He gave us that.
HARRIS: Now, they made it OK.
BEHAR: He really did. No matter much Metamucil he`s on.
Now, let`s talk about the sixth season of "Girls Next Door," released on DVD.
And that`s you`re here promoting that, but you`re no longer living in the mansion. So are you cut out of season seven?
HARRIS: I think it was a six-part series. I think "The Girls Next Door" is no more. I`m not exactly sure. But it was fun while it lasted.
BEHAR: So what`s your next move? What goals do you have?
HARRIS: Day by day. I have no idea. I have no idea. I just -- I had a small part in a movie recently. And just seeing what happens.
BEHAR: There was a woman we had on; I think she was the playmate of the year. She was on here, and she didn`t have very nice things to say about you. Do you who she is?
HARRIS: Yes, I know who she is. She`s never had nice things to say.
BEHAR: She was nastyish (ph) against you.
HARRIS: I`ve never had a bad word to say about her, nor will I ever.
BEHAR: Keep it like that, you`re better off.
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: Before I go, I just -- did you ever have actual sex with Hefner?
HARRIS: Yes. Sure.
BEHAR: I asked this before -- I`m different. You actually did?
HARRIS: Did I have sex --
BEHAR: Yes. People out there want to know, did you actually sleep with him, and he`s 85 and you`re 25.
HARRIS: When I first got there.
BEHAR: You did?
HARRIS: Yes.
BEHAR: And what was it like?
HARRIS: I don`t know. Everything works the same. I don`t know.
BEHAR: OK. You know, he says he may have dodged a bullet. That`s not nice to say about you.
HARRIS: I mean, he says a lot of things. He loves Twitter, and he doesn`t realize what he types goes to a million people or whoever, however many people follow him.
BEHAR: Can he hear? I hear he`s losing his hearing. I heard he is. So, you know, when you whisper sweet nothings, you really have to whisper sweet nothings.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Thanks for doing this, Crystal. Good luck to you. "The Girls Next Door" Season six is out now and DVD.
We`ll be back in a minute.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We saw comedienne Judy Gold earlier in the show and in spite of our requests, she just won`t leave. She`s the star now of a new-off Broadway show, the Judy show, "My Life is a Sitcom" and more importantly my pal.
So happy to have you back here. So let`s talk about the show. I saw it, it`s terrific.
GOLD: Thank you.
BEHAR: You should all go out and see it. You wrote in it, you star in it. You`re so self-absorbed.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: You wrote the whole thing, you star in it, you sing in it.
GOLD: I wrote it with Bob Smith and Eric Cornfeld. It was a long process, years and years.
BEHAR: Years?
GOLD: It took me years to do this. And you know it`s my journey. It tells the whole story of my life and how I was addicted to sitcoms growing up because you know I wasn`t in love with my family. I wanted to run away to the Brady house and the Partridge family bus. I wanted to go to the project on "Good Times" and be anywhere I was. And I love the shows there, such an impact on me that I thought when I grew up, I was going to be on one of these shows.
BEHAR: Now, when you tell that to your mother, I really want to escape your house, how does she feel about it?
GOLD: I haven`t really discussed it with her. She hasn`t seen the show yet. But my sister`s coming this week. I can`t wait.
BEHAR: Just tell her it`s made up. She watches the show, doesn`t she?
GOLD: She loves you. It`s unbelievable.
BEHAR: Now, what is this that when you were watching "Laverne and Shirley," you thought you might be a lesbian? Is that true?
GOLD: No, I thought I was a lesbian before that.
BEHAR: How about Cagney and Lacy?
GOLD: No, Cagney and Lacy, that was a fake. I know, really. I thought that was a very gay show. Didn`t you think that Laverne and Shirley was kind of a gay--?
BEHAR: It was a very gay show but I never thought they were gay with each other.
GOLD: You know, I don`t know. There were other characters I thought were gayer like on "Bewitched," Aunt Hilda. Not that she was gay but gays loved her, this over the top kind of thing.
BEHAR: How about Agnes Morehead?
(LAUGHTER)
GOLD: I don`t think Agnes wanted to give more.
BEHAR: She was one of the witches.
GOLD: Yes. That`s true. Wow!
BEHAR: It`s one of those names like Anthony Weiner. You give a shout out in the show to Governor Andrew Cuomo for legalizing. He`s been our hero, hasn`t he?
GOLD: He`s been -- as I say, this homo is for Cuomo. I can`t -- I mean, he got it done. He really got it done. He really got it done. And now, the next thing is I`m going to get a gay family on television. How great would that be?
BEHAR: Well, you have the best sitcom. Where is the show?
GOLD: The show is at the DR2 Theater which is on 15th street.
BEHAR: And people should go see "The Judy Show, my life is a sitcom" at the DR Theater in New York right now through September 10th she`ll be there.
It`s a terrific, terrific show. Thank you.
GOLD: Thank you.
BEHAR: Before we go, don`t forget CNN and HLN are the very first news networks in the United States to stream 24-hour news online and on mobile, which means even if you`re not sitting in front of a TV, you can watch live, including breaking news.
Check out CNN.com/video to find out how.
Thank you for watching. Goodnight, everybody.
END
