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Joy Behar Page
Warren Jeffs Found Guilty; Matt Damon Defends Teachers; Obama Turns 50
Aired August 04, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: We`ve been calling cult leader Warren Jeffs a rapist for the last couple of days and now 12 people agree with us. A jury had found Jeffs guilty of both charges of sex assaults on two young girls.
Joining me to talk about it are Elissa Wall, a former member of Warren Jeffs` church and author of "Stolen Innocence: My story of growing up in a polygamist sex, becoming a teenage bride and breaking free of Warren Jeffs"; "In Session" anchor Christi Paul; as well as Sam Brower, author of "Prophet`s Prey: My 7-Year Investigation into Warren Jeffs and the Fundamentalist Church of Latter Day Saints".
Elissa, you escaped from Jeffs` sect. Are you happy with this verdict? Of course, you are.
ELISSA WALL, AUTHOR "STOLEN INNOCENCE": Yes, I am. I`m very emotional over this verdict. This is a stride of success and this is justice for a lot of people.
BEHAR: You seem overwhelmed by it. I`m happy that he`s finally getting what he deserves, this guy. Christi, what was this guy, I don`t even want to say his name. What was the rapist reaction to the verdict, Christi?
CHRISTI PAUL, ANCHOR, "IN SESSION": He had no reaction. It was the same thing that we`ve seen from him the whole way through. He just stands there, very stoic, no expressions. In fact, the only expression I saw from him today was when he looked at the jury during his closing arguments of which there really were none.
He literally stood there, silent for 30 minutes and the judge counted him down. "You`ve had five minutes, Mr. Jeffs. You`ve had ten minutes, Mr. Jeffs. Because she had to give him that 30 minutes so that he couldn`t come back and appeal and say that he couldn`t have all of his time to present his case.
She hit the 20-minute mark, he looked at the jury. And he looked at each of them one by one by one; and the interesting thing to me, Joy, was they all stared right back at him at that point.
BEHAR: What about when he said to himself, "I am at peace." What was that about?
PAUL: That was the only utterance he made the entire time. The only thing he said during his closing argument and he just said it like he always does, very monotone, very fluid. He looked up and said, "I am at peace." And that`s the last thing we heard from him.
BEHAR: Elissa, you know this guy. What do you think? What does that mean, "I am at peace"? What do you make of that?
WALL: You know, I think Warren has displayed this -- the behavior of proving to the world that he`s better. That he is a martyr and he`s creating this image for the masses and for the people. If I could identify it with anything, it would be that of Christ where Christ said "Judge them not." It was very similar to the same idea.
"I am at peace." Even though I`m accused of this I am at peace. In my opinion that was a lot of probably what was going through and his mission even uttering that kind of a statement.
BEHAR: Yes. I know. He hides behind his religion and behind Jesus. I don`t think Jesus advocated the kind of behavior that he`s been performing.
Sam, you`ve been following this a long time. What`s your response to the verdict?
SAM BROWER, AUTHOR, "PROPHET`S PREY": It`s a great day any time Warren Jeffs is found guilty of doing what he`s been doing for the past decade. And I`m delighted. I couldn`t be happier. I`ve seen it before in Utah during Elissa`s -- when Elissa was the victim. And I`m seeing it again now and it seems to me that this is going to stick and he`s going to finally be held accountable for the things he`s done.
BEHAR: Uh-huh.
BROWER: There`s a tendency to compare himself, historically, with church figures, with Christ and things like that. I think that`s the persona he wants to present but in court he looked like an idiot and that was gratifying to me.
BEHAR: Really. That must have been a great moment for you.
BROWER: It was.
BEHAR: And you know, Elissa, do you think that he expected a guilty verdict?
WALL: I have no idea what he expected. I would have to believe that at some point reality would kick in for him. And I honestly don`t know if he even believes he did anything wrong. I don`t know when it goes through his head that he understands that he`s being held accountable for crimes.
I really do believe that because of his view of himself as a God-like figure that he`s above the law and he`s above these consequences.
BEHAR: That`s interesting. Sam, do you agree with that? That he doesn`t -- he believes that he`s virtuous in some way that he`s above the law and that he hadn`t done anything wrong. Or is he really a true perpetrator and a pervert?
BROWER: He`s definitely a true perpetrator and pervert. He`s compulsive. He can`t help himself. He does those things because he`s an inherently evil person. That`s why he does it. But on some level, I feel that he has lucid moments and he knows what he is and he knows what he does.
He`s confessed in jail before that he wasn`t the prophet. He never was the prophet and he had immoral relations with the sister and daughter. So on some level he knows and on other, he starts believing in his own BS.
BEHAR: Yes.
BROWER: He becomes so entrenched in the persona that he convinces himself that he`s holier than anyone else.
BEHAR: Yes. And we`re hearing that his compound, FLDS, is in media lockdown. His followers heard nothing. Do you think they`ll hear about this verdict? Christi, what do you know about that and will they ever hear about this?
PAUL: Oh, I`m sure that eventually, yes. They`ll absolutely hear about it. I don`t know when they`re going to hear about it or how they`re going to hear about it or what version they might hear. I think those are the big questions because we don`t know what goes on behind those gates.
There`s obviously, you`ve talked about all of the things that are suspected. Flora Jessop has been great in telling us a lot of the things that she experienced. But what will be interesting will be whether his conviction fractures that community.
We have heard from people who say, it does seem to be breaking down a bit in little bits and pieces. And now that he has been convicted, the question is -- will they see him as a martyr or will they start to question his power as a prophet?
BEHAR: Uh-huh. And Sam, what about other sects within the sect in other states? Will this have any effect on breaking up those sects or those other branches of the sect?
BROWER: Well, I would hope that any sect that abuses children will take notice. That they`ll see what`s going on here; that they`ll start getting the picture that you can`t neglect your children. You can`t take little girls and marry them off to old men decades older than them. And that they`ll start thinking twice about it. I mean, that`s what it`s all about, protecting these children and doing something about it.
BEHAR: I know. But what`s unbelievable about that is that it has been allowed to go on like this for so many years. And that the authorities have not invaded these places and arrested all of these perpetrators including the women. That`s what can`t quite wrap my mind around. That they`ve gotten away with it.
BROWER: It`s maddening. It`s been maddening to me. I don`t get it. Some of the women have gone on TV and been asked about their participation in it and they have this very sickly, sweet demeanor about them. And they say -- when asked if they know anything about underage marriages they say, no, sir, no, sir. I don`t know anything.
BEHAR: So they lie. That`s interesting.
BROWER: That`s the way it is. Yes.
BEHAR: So wait a minute. So if they think it`s ok to do it why would they lie and deny it? They should shout it from the rooftops if it`s so ok to do that, right?
BROWE: That`s right. I know of one woman, in fact, one of the mothers that was involved in these allegations we just heard about in court, went on a very prominent TV show and when asked about it said -- no, sir. Three of the children involved with some of these men in here were her children and she denied even knowing anything about underage marriages.
BEHAR: Right. She needs to go to jail.
BROWER: Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
BEHAR: Christi, why did his defense of himself end so quickly? I`m just curious. He didn`t give himself a lot of time in the defense section.
PAUL: Well it might have seemed quick to you but we sat in there for about four hours yesterday, Joy, as his first witness and only witness was on the stand, one of his fellow followers, I guess. All he did was read scripture, pretty much.
He didn`t have a defense -- that was the point. He never said I didn`t do this. He never said I`m not guilty of this. He just kept spouting off that his religion was being trampled upon.
BEHAR: That`s interesting.
PAUL: And I think one of the most powerful -- one of the most powerful moments in court today I wanted to tell you about was closing arguments of the prosecution. Eric Nichols said you know, if you`re outside and you see that it`s snowing at night and you go to bed. Or if you wake up in the morning and there`s snow on the ground, there`s evidence there that it snowed.
And then he put up the picture of the 14-year-old, beautiful girl, with this gorgeous little baby girl. And he turned around and looked at the jury and he said, "In this case, we don`t have snow. We have a child."
BEHAR: Yes.
PAUL: And then he continued on with the DNA evidence and that was pretty powerful.
BEHAR: And then they nailed him and it`s just been great.
Now, you know Elissa, how do people watching the show tonight help end the cycle of abuse. Yesterday, Mike Watkiss was saying that the media abandoned the situation after a while and just sort of, you know, gets tired of the story.
Is that going to be the same this time? How can we do more, Elissa? Do you have any ideas?
WALL: I do believe that -- I do believe that that is something that has happened in the past. Really what this is about, this is a much bigger undertone than just the FLDS and just Warren Jeffs.
We`re speaking about abuse of humanity in many ways and religion is never, never an umbrella or an excuse for any form of abuse. And I do believe that as a public looking in on this, we -- we get to understand that we`re dealing with something we have never dealt with before. And that there`s never been the light shined on the realities of these communities.
And so much is going to be -- there`s going to be a fallout, even from this conviction within the community itself. And we have to realize that we`re dealing with many people who haven`t had normal education and are going to have a hard time adapting into society, if ever.
BEHAR: Yes.
I hope that this does shine a line (SIC) on this perversion that seems to be very prevalent in some of these communities. It`s just been awful. But I`m happy today that this guy is going -- you know, going to jail.
Thank you very much, everybody. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: "Two and a Half Men`s" 9th season premiere this fall may feature a funeral for Charlie Sheen`s character, who is being killed off. Maybe as an homage to the real Charlie, the pallbearers should be six hookers.
Here to -- here to discuss this and other pop culture stories on the news are Lea Thompson, actress from ABC Family`s "Switched at Birth", comedian Christopher Titus, and Deborah Norville, host of "Inside Edition".
Ok, let`s start with you Lea, do you think that this guy Chuck Lorre, first of all he`s pissed at Charlie.
LEA THOMPSON, ACTRESS, "SWITCHED AT BIRTH": Right.
BEHAR: Is he just trying to close the door on a future cameo possibility?
THOMPSON: I think absolutely. I mean, writers write and that`s how they get their revenge and he is definitely getting his revenge. No, he`s not coming back.
BEHAR: No, I think he really did this on purpose.
CHRISTOPHER TITUS, COMEDIAN: Well, I was a writer on Mike Sullivan show and I was in the room all the time and I know the writers actually wanted to actually kill me at times, so to actually have the ability to manufacture how to kill him off is going to be phenomenal.
And Chuck Lorre is also the writer. He`s the guy who write, he`s the most powerful guy. It just proves the pen is mightier than the porn star.
BEHAR: Right, that`s right.
DEBORAH NORVILLE, HOST, "INSIDE EDITION": Yes but they could go to Brook Mueller and others for ideas on how you could kill Charlie. I mean you may have to make it authentic.
TITUS: Yes but that`s another series.
BEHAR: And Ashton Kutcher is taking his place. Did you hear this? He`s playing an Internet billionaire with a broken heart, who`s living with a dead beat, a teenage boy and a snotty housekeeper, realistic.
THOMPSON: I don`t think so. I think it would good a better play.
TITUS: Yes.
THOMPSON: But I do like Ashton Kutcher.
BEHAR: You do.
TITUS: Yes, but imagine being Charlie Sheen, it`s bad enough that you lost your show, that it was your show. But now Ashton Kutcher is taking your place, younger, it`s almost like your girlfriend, your girlfriend and your mom cheating on you and your dad with Ashton Kutcher.
BEHAR: That`s a burn.
TITUS: Yes and horribly.
BEHAR: Yes, now, you know the thing about it is that with this "Three and a Half Men" people said "The Charlie Sheen Show" maybe that would have made a difference. Don`t you think, they couldn`t -- look at "Everybody Loves Raymond" you can`t get rid of Raymond.
TITUS: Yes.
THOMPSON: Well didn`t they do that to Valerie though? They fired Valerie --
(CROSSTALK)
TITUS: That`s right.
NORVILLE: Yes.
BEHAR: Oh well.
THOMPSON: Yes on the show Valerie -- Valerie Harper.
BEHAR: Valerie Harper.
THOMPSON: Yes, they put Sandy Duncan in.
BEHAR: And they called it Valerie?
NORVILLE: I don`t remember.
TITUS: Valerie did a question mark in? It was a "Valerie, question mark".
NORVILLE: I mean, I guess your show is THE JOY BEHAR SHOW.
BEHAR: Yes.
NORVILLE: So they can`t do it without you.
BEHAR: Hello.
NORVILLE: But it`s the "The Tonight Show".
BEHAR: It`s not an accident.
(CROSSTALK)
TITUS: Yes that`s (INAUDIBLE) but pictures of her are everywhere.
NORVILLE: In case you forget where you are, Joy. But like "The Tonight Show".
BEHAR: Yes.
NORVILLE: Was "The Tonight Show, with Jay Leno".
BEHAR: Yes.
NORVILLE: Was the extra step but it wasn`t the legal name of the show.
BEHAR: That`s right.
NORVILLE: So Charlie Sheen, you know, he got a lot of money but --
BEHAR: Expendable.
NORVILLE: Yes, expendable.
TITUS: And they can just put -- they can just put anybody in "The Tonight Show." You see how that worked out.
BEHAR: Didn`t you work with Charlie Sheen?
THOMPSON: I did.
BEHAR: You worked with him. So how was he in those days?
THOMPSON: He was 16 and he was already like a loose cannon.
BEHAR: He was.
THOMPSON: But I expected him to grow out of it by say 30 or maybe 40.
BEHAR: Yes, it doesn`t work unfortunately.
THOMPSON: Yes.
BEHAR: Ok, let`s see if I can read this now.
Moving on. When Matt Damon is not making movies or winning Oscars he`s defending teachers. Yes. Damon, whose mother as a teacher, as was I, he got a little snippy with a producer and her crew at an education conference in Washington D.C.
Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MATT DAMON, ACTOR: It`s like saying a teacher is going to get lazy when they have tenure. A teacher wants to teach. I mean, why else would you take a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) salary and really long hours and -- and do that job unless you really love to do it?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Aren`t there the 10 percent that are bad though? Ten percent of teachers are bad.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Where did you get that number?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don`t know, but 10 percent people in any profession maybe should think of something else.
DAMON: Ok. But I mean maybe (EXPLETIVE DELETED) -- cameraman. I don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Why are you clapping?
THOMPSON: I don`t know. I think it was great. I think people are -- you can`t see in that clip, but he was standing next to his mother. And I think --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Who was a teacher -- yes.
THOMPSON: Yes and was a teacher. So it was really great that he was defending it. But I think people are upset because he was standing next to his mother and he swore. I don`t know.
TITUS: And I think with that haircut he had to. He takes this Nazi thing down a couple of degree.
BEHAR: It`s very, isn`t it very neo-Nazi?
NORVILLE: I hope he`s doing like a military movie or something. But that`s really not a good look for him.
THOMPSON: Yes.
BEHAR: But I mean what about the cameraman sticking his two cents -- he goes 10 percent of teachers are bad. She goes, where did you get that number? The cameraman says, 10 percent of people in any profession should maybe think about something else.
And then Matt says, but I mean, maybe you`re a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) cameraman, I don`t know.
TITUS: Well, that`s brilliant.
THOMPSON: Wait a minute how can you bleep it on the clip that --
BEHAR: Bleep it again. Oh yes, but I mean, isn`t that sort of like - - why is the cameraman having a fight with the star?
TITUS: When did he start making policy?
And I believe -- I agree with Matt Damon. I don`t think any teacher ever went, hmmm, hedge fund manager or a third grade teacher, I`m going to stick with the number two pencils and the crayons. That`s where the juice is.
BEHAR: Yes.
TITUS: You know -- people that -- people that are teachers are teachers because they love it.
NORVILLE: I`ve got to tell you, Matt Damon --
BEHAR: Not necessarily though, Christopher. A lot of teachers do it because it`s sort of the thing that falls in their laps. You know we`re in an economy that`s not so great. They need a teacher, you take the job.
NORVILLE: Hold on a second, you don`t want to be a teacher right now. My sister is a teacher.
BEHAR: I know.
NORVILLE: She`s had her third pay cut in a year. It is awful what they`re doing.
And I`ve got to tell you, Matt Damon is going to score so many brownie points standing up for teachers.
(CROSSTALK)
THOMPSON: Absolutely.
BEHAR: Yes.
NORVILLE: Because teachers are getting so much garbage thrown at them right now.
BEHAR: They are.
THOMPSON: This is terrible.
NORVILLE: So go Matt.
BEHAR: It`s really not fair because they have a lot against them.
NORVILLE: No, totally.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I did the job -- I know. It`s a very hard job.
NORVILLE: It sucks.
TITUS: It`s really horrible. He also said that they want to test the children and based on the children`s test scores, the teachers` pay would be based on. If that happened to me my teachers would still be making payments.
NORVILLE: It`s not their fault the kids are idiots. They were stupid before they got into class.
BEHAR: Ok. More pop culture when we come back. We have to get to break.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up later on the JOY BEHAR SHOW, Joy sits down with the Gleeks from "Glee". Harry Shum and Ashley Fink.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with my panel.
It`s being reported that girls are acting like sluts to pay for college these days. Hey, I did it just for the fun.
It turns out a lot of girls are looking for sugar daddies online to help them pay for tuition. How do you like that? One girl said she was paid $350 to have sex with a man twice her age. I hope she wasn`t 50 herself.
NORVILLE: I think she should get more. She should get more. That`s not enough money. I mean If you`re going to sell yourself, sell yourself high.
That`s not even --
(CROSSTALK)
TITUS: I like that.
THOMPSON: Now that we`ve established what you are.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Do you think stripping is a better option?
THOMPSON: I would.
TITUS: Wouldn`t you rather know that your daughter is stripping for money and not sleeping with guys to put herself through college than putting out to a bunch of guys to make it through college?
BEHAR: Yes
TITUS: I would much rather have that.
BEHAR: Well, you know, 7 percent of Harvard women are so-called sugar babies.
NORVILLE: Wait, does that mean that they`re hooking like they`re signed up with an escort service and some random guy calls?
BEHAR: No, they`re finding people online.
NORVILLE: Or they`re finding a rich guy that sort of doles out their money.
THOMPSON: So they are starting a small business of their own.
BEHAR: Exactly.
TITUS: I like that.
They`re going to write their final thesis on it and see how much money they made.
NORVILLE: This is how different college is. When I was in college you sold your blood.
THOMPSON: Well, it`s gone up. The price has gone up.
BEHAR: It turns out, also, today is President Obama`s 50th birthday party. Should we wish him happy birthday.
THOMPSON: Of course.
BEHAR: Happy birthday to the President.
You want to sing it. Sing it, Deborah.
NORVILLE: No, I think, you have to pay if we sing it.
THOMPSON: You do, you have to pay.
BEHAR: Give him a little. Come on Lea.
THOMPSON: Happy birthday, Mr. President.
TITUS: Oh, my.
BEHAR: Now, you, Chris.
TITUS: Happy birthday to you
$38,500 to go to this party -- $38,500; I`ve never seen a birthday invitation with an invoice.
NORVILLE: Yes, you have. Bill Clinton had one. He also turned 50 while in the presidency.
TITUS: How do you get -- please show up at this party. The President wants to see you. Please bring $38,500 in --
THOMPSON: Small bills.
TITUS: Yes, small bills and note: cash bar.
THOMPSON: Maybe those Harvard girls should try that.
TITUS: Yes. But the President went to Harvard. So there you go.
NORVILLE: There you go.
THOMPSON: That`s right.
BEHAR: Let`s look at a split screen of him so we can see how his -- look how much grayer he is now. Poor guy; he looks a little older.
NORVILLE: That happens to everybody in the White House.
BEHAR: Look on the left how young and vibrant and now he`s like tired -- the poor man. They`re making a living room out of him. Isn`t it kind of sad?
TITUS: He`s sliding to the crypt keeper slowly.
BEHAR: But still -- he still looks great, though.
NORVILLE: Yes.
TITUS: Yes. He`s great.
THOMPSON: He`s only 50.
TITUS: Yes. 50 is the new 40, right?
BEHAR: I guess so. I`ll tell you when I get there.
BEHAR: You can see Lea Thompson on the finale of "Switched at Birth" on ABC Family, August 8th. Also catch Christopher Titus at Caroline`s in New York now through Sunday and go to christophertitus.com to pre-order his DVD, "Nevolution". Lastly check out "Making Medicare Work for You" hosted by Deborah Norville on RLTV on August 15th.
I`m exhausted from these plugs.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Here`s a question. Are you bored in bed? Do you feel like cheating on your spouse?
Some people think that might actually be good for your marriage. Sounds crazy? Here to explain and talk about all things libidinous are Ian Kerner, sorry. Sex therapist, relationship counselor and founder of goodinbed.com and Logan Levkoff, sexologist the author of the upcoming "How To Get Your Wife To Have Sex With You."
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Is it hard to get these women to do it these days or what?
LOGAN LEVKOFF, AUTHOR, HOW TO GET YOUR WIFE TO HAVE SEX WITH YOU: Well, that is -- it`s definitely a little more complicated especially when sometimes men forget to say thank you. I mean, thank you gets you sex.
BEHAR: You mean, after you sleep with them they`re supposed to say thank you?
LEVKOFF: No, before. Thank you for everything.
IAN KERNER, FOUNDER, GOODINBED.COM: When you go home and say thanks.
BEHAR: Oh, I see. Just thank you for everything.
LEVKOFF: Very simple. Take a shower and say "thank you."
BEHAR: How about begging? Does that work?
LEVKOFF: Not very often.
BEHAR: No. Now, there`s a new sex survey out.
HERNER: Yes.
BEHAR: And it`s interesting that you surveyed in 3500 people and you found that a lot of those couples are bored. What`s the problem?
KERNER: Yes. Just like you said we surveyed 3500 people and 25 percent of people were significantly bored in their relationships. Another 25 people were somewhat bored in their relationships. So 50 percent of all people surveyed were in the state of feeling pretty bored.
BEHAR: And why is that?
KERNER: Well, I think a lot of people said it had to do with infrequency of sex.
BEHAR: Infrequency?
KERNER: Lack of frequency. Lack of frequency of sex.
BEHAR: If they`re bored with sex, why do they want to do it more often? I don`t get that.
KERNER: Well, they wanted people -- people wanted more sex. There were a lot of parents --
BEHAR: They wanted mover sex but not with the spouse, maybe? Someone else?
KERNER: Well, you know it was interesting, over 50 percent of people said if my partner suggested something new in the bedroom I would totally be up for that. But people don`t talk about sex. They don`t make suggestions.
BEHAR: Why not? They`re shy? They`re scared? What do you think?
LEVKOFF: Well, we have the worst language when it comes to sex. We`re so afraid of being judged so we don`t really share our fantasies. We don`t talk to one another and also after a long-term relationship you start to think your partner will magically get you and know everything about you so you kind of give up on the talking.
BEHAR: I know. And also they -- a lot of men need to be taught.
LEVKOFF: Yes. And I say a lot of women need to be taught about their own bodies to and what they need and it`s OK to ask for what you want.
BEHAR: I mean, let`s face it. A man will just you know it`s like a heated missile. You know?
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: And will just go there. But a woman`s body is more complicated and men need to be taught where to go, how to do it.
KERNER: Well, I think women should be comfortable telling us and giving us instructions you know. I mean women are still faking orgasms quite a bit.
LEVKOFF: We`re afraid of hurting your feelings. That`s the big misconception about man is that they can`t handle it.
KERNER: Hurt our feelings. Have a constructive conversation with us. We`d rather be competent in bed and know what to do.
BEHAR: Really? So you wouldn`t have your feelings hurt if you said you know I hardly felt that?"
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Would you? Tell us how to say it?
KERNER: You know I think, you know, I think you should always talk about sex in a sexy way. I think part of the problem is when couples talk about sex and I see this in my practice all the time you know, there`s no foreplay. Or when it comes to oral pleasure it`s like a running of the bulls you know. It`s just a mad stampede. You know people say very mean, very vicious things instead of just framing it. How about this framing that is a very sexy conversation like you know I have a fantasy of this kind of sex.
LEVKOFF: And I love it when you do that. I supposed to I hate it when you do that. Exactly.
BEHAR: Now by the way, I know you treat heterosexual couples. What about gay couples? Do you have different rules for them or the same thing?
KERNER: You know it`s funny because there are times that there`s been a lot of you know in the news lately. A lot of talks about negotiate monogamy and how now gay male couples would cud each other a little more slot. But I have to tell you I`m working with gay couples who are buying apartments together, adopting kids together. And really the issues and attitudes are extremely similar. They were more similarities that differences.
LEVKOFF: Except for the fact that when you know what somebody else`s body is like and what they`re experiencing you can talk about better. If your partner has your parts they know more about what it takes to make them work.
BEHAR: It`s like a Buick versus a Toyota. It`s a problem.
(LAUGHTER)
KERNER: You know it`s interesting with heterosexual couples one of the biggest issues is premature ejaculation. You know --
BEHAR: With hetero?
KERNER: With Hetero. Guys who just can`t last on. That issue rarely if ever comes up with gay couples.
BEHAR: Why? That`s fascinating.
KERNER: Because it`s like, you just said it`s like a matching of each other`s sex drives.
BEHAR: I don`t understand that as all. What`s the difference? If the guys a preemie, he`s a preemie.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: I don`t get that.
LEVKOFF: Well, I think, perhaps, it`s in the conversation, being able to negotiate it better when you can understand speak from the biological perspective.
BEHAR: So what in heterosexual, if a guy`s a preemie and he says, this doesn`t happen very often, do guys say the same thing that or they would say something else to each other? Or like, this does happens to me, too? It`s that make me --
KERNER: They tend to be much more similarly aligned. I mean premature ejaculation is the problem that affects upwards of 35 percent of all men. In general, men you know go as you just said a heated missile, go a lot more quickly so I think you know two guys are likely to be a lot more aligned.
BEHAR: I see. OK. Now, what about infidelity? Because there`s a lot of cheating going on. And I`m not just talking about Arnold Schwarzenegger`s laundry room here. I`m talking about regular people are cheating a lot. They say 65 percent of women and 80 percent of men would cheat if they knew they wouldn`t get caught. I`m surprised the rest of them don`t say that, aren`t you?
LEVKOFF: I think there`s definitely a difference between emotional infidelity and physical infidelity. People are realizing the emotional stuff is sometimes far more painful but you understand what it`s like to lust after someone else and have that connection. So is monogamy dead? Well, it definitely doesn`t work for everyone. But you just have to be honest about it.
BEHAR: Is it natural monogamy?
KERNER: You know it used to be the seven-year itch. Then the five- year itch and then recently it was three-year itch and then there was another article about the two-year itch, pretty soon it`s going to be --
(CROSSTALK)
KERNER: But you know what? People who cheat, who are married and cheat, they end up getting married again you know. So like people I think people are really more serially monogamous and they want monogamy and they want that romantic love and I think it ends up having an expiration date and I think we`re increasingly becoming a culture that doesn`t know how to work at it, especially, work at relationships.
BEHAR: But Logan, do you think marriage can be saved by a little side action? Because that`s what the article that we were reading recently. They are saying that infidelity can save a marriage, is that possible?
LEVKOFF: Well, I don`t think infidelity can save a marriage. I think that if you have issues in your marriage and you say listen, I don`t ever want to go to someone else, let`s deal with it first.
But we`re married were we`re not dead. Which means that fantasizing and having thoughts in your head about other people is really normal thing as long as we`re honest about it. But we`re so afraid of being judged and we`re so afraid of actually saying to our partners, by the way, something`s going on, I want us to get back to the way we were or, you know maybe monogamy isn`t for me but we don`t say that so we try and get caught to get out of it.
BEHAR: OK. What about Anthony Weiner? The guy was basically not cheating on his wife. He was doing this sex thing. Maybe that turned him on and it helped the marriage. Is that possible Ian?
KERNER: Well, I mean I think he had a compulsive issue. But I think for many couples, they will accept things like flirting. They will accept things like pornography. I think more couples are using porn together. I think they will accept more kinds of internet FaceBook flirtations. So I think that couples, their taboos are loosening. I think the parameters are expanding.
But I mean you take something like Anthony Weiner and I mean that was an extreme case of compulsiveness and I don`t think many people would tolerate that.
LEVKOFF: Except that she knew that there were things going on before.
BEHAR: She did or not?
LEVKOFF: Well, It`s been discussed that she knew that he had had these kinds of relationship as a bad word. But he had these experiences, internet experiences, earlier. So I mean I think if you`re up front about some of these things then it`s not really a surprise.
The problem is always with these guys they get their partners get humiliated and get caught in front of everyone. I mean that`s the running theme.
BEHAR: Do you think that he was vilified too much for what he did? I mean it did really hurt anybody at the end of the day.
KERNER: I think he was vilified too much but again he lied and he`s a public figure. I mean Yes but he lied and he`s aid public figure. I mean ultimately it`s between him and his wife but he went out there and started lying.
BEHAR: I didn`t know that she knew he did this before.
LEVKOFF: I mean there was some discussion that he had had these kinds of experiences early on and she had known about it but he said he would stop.
BEHAR: But he couldn`t?
LEVKOFF: Or maybe she knew. We never know. We don`t know what people know and what`s OK in the relationship. But once it becomes public spotter, then we all jump in and get judgmental.
BEHAR: ok. So what about -- . Go ahead Ian. You want to say something?
KERNER: NO. I just think it`s also a slippery slope. I know a lot of women who are like, he flirts too much and they have to accept it. And then he dallies too much and they have to accept it, right? And then, of course, like, I should have seen it coming or I knew it was coming but it`s been a gradual slope of compromise after compromise.
BEHAR: So do you think when a man`s flirting, let`s say if you`re at a party and he is always flirting with your best friend or something, should you watch out?
Or let`s say -- here`s another scenario, you`re tapping into his FaceBook and you find out that he`s been communicating with the next girlfriend from back then. Do you think that you should be worried about something like that?
LEVKOFF: I don`t.
BEHAR: You don`t?
LEVKOFF: I don`t.
KERNER: I do. I do, I think in a trusting, committed relationship you should have you know absolutely nothing to hide. SO I think if you can bring it out in the open, you can do it out in the open, flirt in the open --
BEHAR: But what if he`s not doing it out. What do you think?
LEVKOFF: First of all, I think that you always trust your gut and you should never hack into your partner`s anything. And anything that`s public. I mean --
BEHAR: Really?
LEVKOFF: Yes. I kind of feel like you trust your partner. You trust your partner. And again, I don`t really care if my husband is talking to ex-girlfriend. It really doesn`t bother me while we`re together.
BEHAR: Even if it`s a high school girlfriend or college sweetheart? Now you`re 45. --
LEVKOFF: NO. I ask him all the time, what are they doing? And he`s like, I don`t really care. I Mean. But that just me. That`s what he tells me.
BEHAR: He tells you, he doesn`t care what they`re doing?
LEVKOFF: No.
BEHAR: And you believe him?
LEVKOFF: I honestly do. We can have him come on.
BEHAR: Ian, what do you say about it?
KERNER: I believe and actually in snooping. I think it`s OK to snoop on your partner. I think that of you are in a trusting relationship, I don`t think you should have a lot of passwords or lots of cell phones. I think everything should be open and I think as soon as you have something to hide in a relationship you`re on that slippery slope toward boredom and towards infidelity.
LEVKOFF: We`re not married. That`s why we`re not married to each other.
KERNER: I have very high standards.
BEHAR: Me too. No. I don`t think you two would work out.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Thank you guys very much. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: "Glee" is not only the most popular on TV but on the stage as well. The cast literally took their show on the road for an international tour seen by over 500,000 fans. That`s good. And it was all captured in a new film "Glee -- the 3D concert movie."
Watch.
(MOVIE CLIP, "GLEE THE 3D CONCERT MOVIE)
BEHAR: With me are two of the talented stars of "Glee," Harry Shum who plays Mike Chang and Ashley Fink who plays Lauren Zizis. Welcome to the show.
ASHLEY FINK, ACTRESS: Hi.
BEHAR: You know performing live on stage is different from TV so were you prepared? Did you --?
HARRY SHUM, ACTOR, GLEE: Geez, I mean, we had literally four days to prepare.
BEHAR: Was it?
SHUM: Yes.
FINK: It like I felt like one.
SHUM: It felt like one day.
BEHAR: Is it scary for you?
SHUM: I think it is a little bit. Just for the fact that when we film it you have time to say, hey, cut. Let`s do it again.
FINK: And there`s beauty in editing.
SHUM: Not this one. You literally had to just go with it.
BEHAR: There is beauty in editing.
(CROSSTALK)
FINK: We look great all the time. We never miss a step.
BEHAR: It makes you very much appreciative of Broadway dancers and singers. My, god, they do it eight shows a week and they never miss.
SHUM: They got to cover it up if they do mess up.
BEHAR: Yes. It`s fantastic.
The cast performs Amy Winehouse`s song "Valerie." So the girl died last week. It was so traumatic I think for a lot of her fans. Were you upset?
FINK: Absolutely.
SHUM: That was one of our favorite songs from I think from the second season, for sure. And --
FINK: it`s one of the best albums in the last decade. And it`s devastating to think that was the last -- her debut was also her final -- it`s just sad.
BEHAR: Well, the Glee, glee is so like -- such a wholesome sort of show and her kind of reputation is that she was not wholesome. I think that she milked that a little bit, too. You know this kind of "bad girl" image. "Glee" is opposite, right?
SHUM: I think it`s very -- what the show represents, it`s many different things. You have these little issues they tackle and some big issues. But I think overall, you know, the whole thing that we want to give out is that` love. Music is the universal language and it can bring people together.
BEHAR: Yes.
FINK: Absolutely. There`s a similarity in everyone. Everyone is dealing with the same issues even if they are the jack or the under dog you know what I mean. There`s a-sameness. And music is, like you said, the universal language.
BEHAR: I heard the three of those leads are going. Have they been axed because they aged out at this point?
(LAUGHTER)
FINK: Because everyone knows Chris Colfer looks younger than me.
SHUM: He`s age really bad.
BAHER: Cory Monteith and Leah Michelle, those three?
SHUM: NO. I think right now, what --
BEHAR: Maybe they could be teachers now.
FINK: Teachers? He looks nine. I wouldn`t let the kid in a club.
SHUM: More like 10.
FINK: How about chucky cheese?
(LAUGTHER)
SHUM: With that it`s - you know they want to make sure that it happens organically. Like everyone is in the real school year of every year going on. But as far as we know they`re not axed from the show.
FINK: We`ve only heard --
BEHAR: You`re in high school. You`re supposed to be in high school.
FINK: Yes.
BEHAR: I mean. So you`re 29, Harry. And you`re 24. How many times could you get left back?
(LAUGTHER)
BEHAR: It`s like "Grease" remember "Greece"? They were like middle age, post menopausal and they`re playing high school characters. And talking about virginity that was really funny.
(LAUGHTER)
FINK: You know, we`ve heard a lot of talk but I don`t know. I think anything`s set in stone. We haven`t even start production.
SHUM: We don`t even know what the first script looks like. So-
BEHAR: How did you get the gig, by the way?
SHUM: For me, I knew they were trying to hire a dancer to join the glee club. And-
FINK: He can dance at all.
SHUM: I can you know I`m not the best singer but I`m not the worse singer.
BEHAR: But you can sing and dance?
SHUM: Yes. I can hold a note.
BEHAR: Holds a note?
SHUM: Yes. I can hold a note. Just one note.
BEHAR: That`s all you need to get on a major TV show?
FINK: Have you seen him dance?
BEHAR: I sing through my dance. My dancing.
FINK: He sings with his feet.
SHUM: Yes. But they hired - they tried to hire dancers and then I went red and I actually sang for them and over the course of the year, you know, they kind of kept bringing me back and gave me a little more lines turned in to someone who didn`t have a name to a name and now coming back as a series regular.
BEHAR: Yes. But you didn`t have any lines and all that stuff. Do you think that - I mean you`re an Asian guy, usually I don`t see a lot of Asians on television so it`s nice to see that there`s --
SHUM: I`m the only Asian in the world.
(LAUGHTER)
BEHAR: Tell that to --
SHUM: I tell myself that.
BEHAR: Tell that to the mal-people. Tell that to the people in Shanghai where they`re killing us over there. Are you Chinese?
SHUM: I am Chinese.
BEHAR: OK. I want to talk to you also, about your part in this when we come back. We`ll take a break. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: Back with two of the stars of "Glee", Harry Shum Jr and Ashley Fink.
You know Ashley your character is dating the hot guy.
FINK: Yes.
BEHAR: Named Puck, right?
FINK: Puckerman, that`s right.
BEHAR: Now, my old pal Rosie O`Donnell said that some of her facile friend thought that your story line was unrealistic you know. How do you respond to that?
FINK: That is funny to me. Maybe it`s unrealistically - maybe unrealistic is not silly portrayed on TV as often but I don`t think its unrealistic story line whatsoever. Like I dated the cutest boy in school.
BEHAR: Did you?
FINK: Yes, I had Matt Swagger, all the girls wanted him. And I had him.
SHUM: See? She pops in color?
(LAUGTHER)
FINK: I don`t know. I see love in all shapes and sizes all around. And it`s kind of like maybe the only place unrealistic is on television and that`s the difference.
BEHAR: That a show. That`s not reality. But she said her friends say this. I don`t know what she thinks. But she said her friend thought that your character was unlikable?
FINK: Really? What`s the name of this friend?
(LAUGTHER)
FINK: We`ll kick her --
SHUM: What`s her phone number?
FINK: I know some people in New York.
BEHAR: When did she say that?
FINK: I don`t know. You know I don`t know. I love Rosie. She came to the show and brought her kids. And I think Lauren is an incredibly likable. She`s the only person, the only female in the show that`s actually demanded respect and in high school, that`s a big issue. And the fact that she`s demanding the hottest guy in school to pay her respect, I think it`s incredibly likable.
BEHAR: Yes. I like that story line.
SHUM: Lauren stands out. You know I know.
FINK: And Sue Sylvester is afraid of her. That`s amazing.
BEHAR: That`s good.
So you know Harry, "Glee" is criticized by conservatives for having a gay agenda. Do you think they have gay agenda there?
SHUM: I don`t think so. I think when you have a big spread of trying to break stereotypes as well. And I think even the With Lauren Zizis and even Mike Chang as the Asian-American that doesn`t just you know that`s good at school.
BEHAR: Asian sex symbol too. We don`t see that very often. It`s Charlie Chan, remember Charlie Chan?
SHUM: Yes. I think so.
BEHAR: It`s hardly a sex symbol. I mean it`s really kind a terrible in a way that you don`t see more of that.
SHUM: Yes. I mean that`s why I think what the show is doing is breaking stereotypes. And also putting these especially with gay relationships and with Asian-Americans on to it and for the American audience to see it in a different way. I think that`s great.
BEHAR: We have one facebook question -- is Leah Michelle is a diva?
FINK: No. You know what people don`t know?
SHUM: She just knows what she wants is.
BEHAR: She knows what she wants.
FINK: No. She absolutely does. I mean she`s so on it that she knows, if you ever need know what`s going on, you ask Leah. And they people don`t know about Leah is she`s absolutely hysterical.
BEHAR: She`s funny.
FINK: You will be in tears.
BEHAR: Well, the character that she plays is kind of very Type A personality.
FINK: Yes. Yes.
BEHAR: Well, thank you very much you guys for stopping by. And don`t forget you can catch "Glee, the 3D Concert Movie" for a special limited, limited two-week engagement in theaters everywhere on August 12.
Before we go, don`t forget CNN and HLN on the very first news networks in the United States to stream 24-hour news on-line and on mobile which means even if you`re not sitting in front of a TV, you can watch live including breaking news.
Check out CNN.com/video to find out how.
Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody.
END
