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Joy Behar Page
Interview With Dr. Phil; Interview With Anderson Cooper
Aired September 12, 2011 - 22:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Coming up on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Casey Anthony`s parents talk with Dr. Phil and what they think really happened with Casey and Caylee. But is it just a last ditch attempt to reconcile with their daughter? Tune in as Dr. Phil give Joy his take.
Then Anderson Cooper gives Joy the inside scoop on his interview with Amy Winehouse`s parents on his new show.
Plus could a real-life contagion happen and would you survive. Joy`s got TV`s "The Doctors" here to answer your medical question.
That and more starting right now.
JOY BEHAR, HLN HOST: Casey Anthony has not spoken publicly since being acquitted of murdering her daughter, Caylee, but her parents are speaking out in an exclusive interview with Dr. Phil that airs tomorrow and Wednesday. We have a sneak peek. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. PHIL MCGRAW, HOST, "DR. PHIL": What do you now believe the smell was from?
CINDY ANTHONY, MOTHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: Truthfully, to this day, I don`t know, to be honest.
GEORGE ANTHONY, FATHER OF CASEY ANTHONY: I didn`t want to believe Caylee was back there. I don`t want to believe it. I`m going by what investigators have told me. All I know is that Caylee is not with us anymore. I know that. I know that.
MCGRAW: Do you believe she was in that trunk?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: With me now is Dr. Phil McGraw himself, host of the "Dr. Phil" show. Welcome, Dr. Phil. What do they think happened to this child, Caylee? What happened to her?
MCGRAW: I think they think different things, Cindy and George. I`m certain. But, you know, they don`t know. Joy, I think one of the biggest problems they have is trying to wrap their mind around that a child of theirs could do something horrific to their child.
And, you know, there`s such a conflict. They said that was one of the reasons that they wanted to talk to me about this instead of someone else because the issues here, the family dynamics here, the conflicts of divided loyalty between your daughter and your granddaughter just have been so conflicted, they thought, I want to talk to somebody that maybe will have some insight and understanding into the psychological ramifications of all of this. So I think they have a hard time letting their mind go there.
BEHAR: I think that would be hard for anybody, in that situation. Tell me, what did Cindy tell you about a seizure that Casey had?
MCGRAW: There`s been a leak about that that came out in advance of the interview. Like leaks are, it`s usually somebody on the periphery that knows just enough to mislead you because it`s been pretty inaccurate, as near as I can tell.
I`ll tell you what she did say. What she said is -- I told her early on, look, I want to figure out how you go from what they describe as a normal child in a normal life to someone doing what has been done here. Now, when I say doing it, the "it" is either that she hid her daughter`s dead body in the woods or worse that she caused it. She was acquitted of causing it but she admitted to burying the body in the woods which in and of itself is a horrific thing to do, right?
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: My question was how do you go from what you described as just a normal happy child, cheerleader, all these things, to someone that could do that? I want to know what you all think there. Cindy`s answer to that is, look, I think she may have a brain tumor. I asked her why do you think that. Well, because at one point she had a grand mal seizure.
BEHAR: When was that?
MCGRAW: A year and half later, she had another one. She had one in `07, I believe it was, then she had one a year and a half later.
BEHAR: Was she on any kind of medication for that?
MCGRAW: Well, I asked those questions. I said, did you have her worked up? MRI, CAT scan, x-ray, blood work -- you know, all the things that you would do for a differential diagnosis for causation of a seizure. And usually they`re associated with some type of epileptic activity, not always but sometimes. She said, yes. They found nothing.
BEHAR: Oh.
MCGRAW: I said no tumor. No. "Well, not then." What do you mean, "not then"? Well, maybe she didn`t -- they didn`t find it then but she has it now, because she had another seizure. I mean --
BEHAR: This is just Cindy hallucinating that the girl might have had something to explain the behavior without any kind of proof at all.
MCGRAW: I think she is desperate to reconcile within herself how her daughter could do these things or this thing because she`s saying, "My daughter couldn`t do that. She was a loving mother. She was an attentive mother. This is so out of left field for her. Something had to make her do that." To which my retort was I haven`t seen the medicals, she`s telling me they did them and didn`t find anything.
Casey controls those so, of course, I haven`t seen them. I said, isn`t it possible that this is just a really bad character flaw, that this is the actions of an unconscionable psychopath or sociopath.
BEHAR: Right.
MCGRAW: I`m not saying Casey is that. I don`t know, I haven`t evaluated her. But don`t you have to put on the list her moral compass just went way askew and she made some really bad choices.
BEHAR: And what did she say?
MCGRAW: No.
BEHAR: She doesn`t say that.
MCGRAW: She doesn`t say that.
BEHAR: Well, you know, I don`t want to be cynical or mean now. But it could be that the Anthonys are spinning this story, they`re afraid for their daughter, they`re afraid for themselves. This is a way of spinning it so that people out there furious with Casey Anthony can say see, she had a grand mal seizure and really didn`t know what she was doing.
MCGRAW: I don`t think so.
BEHAR: No.
MCGRAW: I`ll tell you what. I think --
BEHAR: You believe these people -- that they were sincere?
MCGRAW: I think they -- I think each of them -- when I sat down with each of them, I said, look, you guys went through this litigation process here. And the defense was trying to create reasonable doubt, the prosecution was trying to meet a standard of proof to get a conviction. Nobody was interested in telling your story, your perspective on these things.
This is your chance to do that. I want you to be honest. I want you to answer my questions. They gave me no off-limits, any, no holds barred, ask anything, we`ll answer anything. I have to say, they did. They were very forthcoming. And if they were trying to spin this up and get me to create an impression one way or another, they sure picked some unusual things to include.
BEHAR: Like?
MCGRAW: Well, I think her saying what she`s saying about the tumor lacks such credibility to an objective finder of fact, that doesn`t wash. Nobody`s going to believe that.
BEHAR: No.
MCGRAW: I think they do admit that when they went to pick the car up, and George walked up to the car, the smell was overwhelming.
BEHAR: He said that.
MCGRAW: He said one of the greatest reliefs in his life was that his daughter or granddaughter was not in that trunk when he opened it.
BEHAR: What did he think when he took a whiff of that?
MCGRAW: Well, as a police officer he has been around dead bodies that have started the decomposition process. And if you`ve ever smelled a dead body, there`s not another smell like it. And he knows that from his work in law enforcement. He was very concerned that it was exactly that.
BEHAR: So he believed that there had been a dead body in that trunk.
MCGRAW: Well, he doesn`t know. I don`t want to put words in his mouth.
BEHAR: He said he did acknowledge it was an overwhelming odor.
MCGRAW: Yes. As did the person that worked in the tow yard and --
BEHAR: Well, who did he think had been killed in the trunk?
MCGRAW: When they opened the trunk, there was garbage in there and trash in there. In fact there was something that had maggots growing on and a pizza box. The thought was maybe it was just garbage or something like that. And it was just --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: But you just said there`s a specific odor to a dead body.
MCGRAW: Let me explain. You have to understand, when you are dealing with somebody this close to you, that you love and care about, both daughter and granddaughter, it`s very hard to let your mind go there, it just won`t go there. It will look for any exit ramp on the highway to that conclusion, like garbage, I was wrong. You find any way to not go there because it`s overwhelming, you just can`t deal with it psychologically.
BEHAR: Ok. Let`s talk about the sexual molestation accusation that the defense made against George Anthony which, of course, was not substantiated. He threw this bomb in the beginning of the trial and then dropped it. It apparently must have been enough to raise reasonable doubt that Casey had some kind of mitigating circumstances, shall we say psychological ones. What do you make of that?
MCGRAW: Well, I`ve heard people say, you know, how could he get away with suborning perjury, Jose Baez? He didn`t suborn perjury. He didn`t put on the evidence. He didn`t put on a witness. He put somebody on to perjure themselves and say that happened, just speculated about it.
BEHAR: And possibly destroyed a man`s reputation. That was kind -- I thought that was a kind of unethical thing to do.
MCGRAW: Yes. It certainly didn`t help George. It has been very painful for him and this was the first time he`s had an opportunity to really tell his side of that story and the version and we also hear from Cindy on that.
BEHAR: Why does George think that Casey would say such a thing? Just to save her --
MCGRAW: Who knows. He doesn`t know where it came from, he doesn`t know whether this was hatched by the legal team or this is what Casey told them to provide them an explanation or whatever. Many analysts speculated that this was the first social media trial of any import where people were following on Facebook and Twitter and you could go along and say, wow, they don`t like this person, they do like this one.
This one they don`t like could be a vulnerable target, let`s focus on them and come up with a way to create reasonable doubt there.
BEHAR: Sure.
MCGRAW: Now, the defense team hasn`t acknowledged that. That they did or didn`t but that`s been some speculation that`s out there on whether it happened or not.
BEHAR: Are the Anthonys in any kind of therapy themselves?
MCGRAW: At this point, I don`t believe so.
BEHAR: No, do you think they should be?
MCGRAW: I think Cindy has across the past, she talks about that during the interview that she had gone into a therapeutic relationship before any of this happened, which she certainly credits with helping her cope with this during this time.
But at this point, I don`t think they are. I think they`re kind of in survival mode, putting one foot in front of the other, just letting days turn into weeks and hoping to get some distance from this pain.
BEHAR: Well, I doubt that that will happen.
But we`ll have much more with Dr. Phil in a minute. Stay right there.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dr. Phil. And we`re talking about his exclusive interview with George and Cindy Anthony that airs tomorrow and Wednesday.
Now, you asked Cindy whether she believed that George knew of Caylee`s death. So let`s watch that.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: When you heard the defense in this case say that he was involved in -- not in causing the child`s death but in events that took place after that, did it ever occur to you that he`s hidden substantial things from me before, could he have done it again?
C. ANTHONY: No, not when it came to his family, as far as Casey and Caylee. George would never have put us through those six months of not knowing where Caylee was if he knew where Caylee was. Because I watched his heartbreak every single day and I watched him, as frantic as he was.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Do you believe her?
MCGRAW: I do.
BEHAR: You do.
MCGRAW: I think -- I think that she believes that he was not there when this baby died. Under the defense theory that he was not there when the baby drowned. That he did not coerce her into putting the baby in the woods and that he didn`t remain silent about that for the next three years.
He frantically looked for her. He -- he anguished about it every single day. So, I mean, she just says, I don`t believe that. As I said, you know, are there times that he maybe hasn`t been candid with you in these 25 years of marriage?
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: She said, well, yes. But so if he wasn`t then, could he not be now? She said, not on this. Not on this.
BEHAR: She doesn`t believe it.
MCGRAW: Yes.
BEHAR: So she doesn`t believe any of the molestation charges either then, I guess?
MCGRAW: She does not.
BEHAR: What about the 31 days that the kid was missing? I mean, you know, we discussed this earlier with you on "The View." And you were saying as a grandparent, you can`t imagine not seeing your grandchild for more than two days, three days, much less 31 days. Let`s talk about that a little.
MCGRAW: Well, you know, Joy, I think sometimes we just -- we get so analyzing something that we forget about common sense. Let`s just kind of empathically try to walk in their shoes. And that was easier for me now being a grandfather, where I have a little granddaughter about Caylee`s age.
And they didn`t live with us. And understand this. It went from living with her and seeing her daily.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes.
MCGRAW: And in fact, Cindy being the primary caregiver besides Casey, to radio silence, 31 days. Not a peep, not a laugh, not a cry.
BEHAR: Where was she, where was it? Where exactly were they?
MCGRAW: Well, the story that Casey --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: -- told them at the time was that she was with Zanny the nanny. So --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: In what house? Where exactly did she say she was?
MCGRAW: In Zanny`s house.
BEHAR: In Zanny`s house?
MCGRAW: Yes, so they would say, look, they`d call her. And say, where are you? Well, I`m over here with Caylee. Let me talk to her? Well, she`s asleep, well, she`s out playing, she`s -- always an excuse. And Cindy goes 31 days, Cindy and George both without hearing a peep out of this child. Wouldn`t that set off warning bells to you?
BEHAR: Well, what did they say to you when you told them this?
MCGRAW: Well, they said at the time they never considered that something bad had happened to her.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: What about the urge to see your grandchild?
MCGRAW: What they thought was that out of spite Casey was keeping the child away from Cindy because she was upset with her and she was punishing her by withholding the child. And so her attitude was, look, I want to see the baby. I want to -- so she goes to where she worked, to see her --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: -- and find out she doesn`t work there at all.
BEHAR: She doesn`t work there.
MCGRAW: So she now knows the job isn`t for real.
BEHAR: Right.
(CROSSTALK)
MCGRAW: She knows that --
BEHAR: And at what point in the 31 days, do you know, when she went there to check it out?
MCGRAW: It was about halfway through.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: It`s about half way through.
MCGRAW: Two or three weeks through -- it`s about the time she`s --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: And yet another 15 days went by.
MCGRAW: Right.
BEHAR: -- and she still hadn`t seen the child.
MCGRAW: And she continues to ask questions but nothing is there.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: And then she finds out, at the end of the 31 days, that Zanny, another lie, has supposedly kidnapped her. And so she`s like, oh, my God, what? Tell us where. What if -- we`ll find her, let`s go do it.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: And it`s like, I don`t know, her phone is disconnected because -- and the thing that people have to understand, and this was -- I think, had a great impact on -- on Cindy and George to talk about this, that each time we talked about something happening, I said, you now have to look back at that and understand that when she was telling you that lie, that baby was already buried in the woods --
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: -- less than a mile from your house.
And she let this go on for three years of anguish, searches, people looking, on and on. And every time they would go see her and talk to her in jail and she`s saying the things she`s saying, she knows already where the -- where the child is.
BEHAR: Right.
MCGRAW: And for them to go back and look at it and say, as I think back through that event, knowing that as she stood there, that is really something else that she could tell that lie.
BEHAR: You know, a lot of what you`ve told us so far and I haven`t seen the show yet, a lot of the things that they answer to you are pretty predictable. I would have predicted it, I would have said, well, they would have denied that he molested her, they would have denied that he was at the scene, they would have said that the daughter prevented them from seeing -- was there anything in the interview you didn`t expect them to say that they said?
MCGRAW: Well, there were a lot of things in the interview that were - - excuse me -- very surprising and shocking to me. And you know, I`m being careful about what I say and not just as a tease for people to watch the interview because I know people will watch this interview.
BEHAR: Yes.
MCGRAW: But I want them to speak in their own words. I don`t want to color their answers, the texture of their answer, the tone. I want people to go into this with a clean slate. Because I`ve said, if you have an opinion about these people, and most people do, Joy, they either hate them or -- or they think they`ve been victimized here and suffered a terrible loss. Whichever side of that continuum you`re on, I think they may move their position after they hear this. Some of them will feel worse, some of them will feel better.
BEHAR: Ok. All right. Well then, we`re just going to have to watch it.
MCGRAW: You`re just going to have to.
BEHAR: Ok. We`ll have more with Dr. Phil in just a minute.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Later tonight on THE JOY BEHAR SHOW, Anderson Cooper`s new daytime talk show premiered earlier today. He`s here tonight to tell Joy all about his first day on the job.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: I`m back with Dr. Phil McGraw and we`re moving on from the Anthonys because I think we have to watch the show tomorrow night and Wednesday. A two-parter even though you said you spent a lot more time with them but you had to condense it.
MCGRAW: I did. Then there`s a third part on the following Monday that wraps it up. That part is about the trial itself and the verdict and what`s happened since then. I think a very interesting part of this whole thing is we know what we`ve seen and heard in the media and actually in the trial.
But we talked an awful lot about what was going on below the surface while all this that we were seeing was happening. How they learned about Casey`s version of what happened to Caylee, who called them and told them, how they reacted to that. How they learned George was going to be a focus of the defense and what they were asked to say and do concerning that, all of those things we talk about through this.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: Ok. It`s quite thorough. You did a very thorough job.
Let`s talk about another case. About this guy, Ted Williams, by the way, isn`t he a baseball player who died in 2012 -- 2002?
MCGRAW: Yes. That would be quite an interview, wouldn`t it?
BEHAR: How do you get these bookings. I thought only Barbara got them.
MCGRAW: I just thought he wasn`t very responsive so I didn`t spend nine hours with him.
BEHAR: But I mean this is a guy who was a homeless drug addict with a golden voice. People out there, you might remember this story. And he had been on your show before.
MCGRAW: He was discovered on the corner -- people kind of knew, the guy with a paper up in Columbus went by and he would always say, "Hey, Ted, give me some of that radio voice," you know. And he would say, hey, see the hits on 101 and do his spiel and he recorded him one day on a little a flip phone and he just put it on YouTube.
BEHAR: I know. Well, let`s look at some of your interview with him.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MCGRAW: You told a lot of lies to us while you were here. Want you to own them now and put them behind you.
TED WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.
MCGRAW: We`re going to take a look at one of the clips from one of the show. I don`t show you this to bring you down. I show you this because I want you to say, that was me then, that is not who I am now. I acknowledge that. If you`re honest enough to own that, then you can be believed with what you`re saying today.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Why do you seem shocked that a drug addict would lie?
MCGRAW: I`m not shocked. What I was shocked about was that everybody in America bought this. Because at the time, he`s homeless on the corner. And he`s got a spiel. This guy, he`s got a spiel.
Even when I first met him. He said, Dr. Phil, it`s homeless to Hollywood. How about this? You know, here I am in Hollywood, you don`t always -- and America was celebrating. We all love a great story, right? Because I work with addicts so much. I`ve been in this business for 35 years.
I`m sitting there watching this guy thinking he doesn`t sound clean and sober to me. And I look at his history. I see -- he said he`s been clean and sober for two years. I look at his history and six months earlier, he`s been chased away from a business in Columbus for urinating on the lawn and supposedly prostituting his girlfriend in a parking lot. People come to get tires, by the way, since you`re here --
BEHAR: That doesn`t look good on a resume.
MCGRAW: No. If you`re saying, hey, I`m clean and sober, I`m thinking that does not look like clean and sober behavior to me. He was still using. I get him to go to rehab. But I mean it`s tough. He said, I got to go home and see my grandkids, first. I say no, you don`t want to do that. He does. He goes up there and parties for four or five days. We get him to rehab, he lasts a week and then he`s gone. We got him back in for 90 days and this was the first interview since he`s been out.
BEHAR: On Thursday, we`re going to see that.
MCGRAW: On Thursday.
BEHAR: You are a busy, busy bee.
MCGRAW: Busy bee.
BEHAR: Ok. Thanks, Dr. Phil.
The 10th season of "Dr. Phil" premieres this week with the two-part interview with George and Cindy Anthony airing Tuesday and Wednesday, check your local listings. We`ll be right back.
Thanks very much for doing this.
MCGRAW: Thank you.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: CNN reporter Anderson Cooper was attacked by mobs in Egypt and helped rescuers after the earthquake in Haiti. Now, he`s taking on another dangerous challenge, daytime TV. His new syndicated show, "Anderson" premiered today and featured the first interview with Amy Winehouse`s parents since her death. Let`s watch it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`d been banging on about the fact that she hadn`t taken drugs for three years. Everyone thought I was in denial. I wasn`t in denial, she hadn`t taken drugs, she`s been clean of drugs ...
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: For three years?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Three years.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Roundabout three years.
COOPER: So, the problem was really alcohol in the last years of her life?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The problem was alcohol the last few years of her life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: I`m happy to welcome to my show for the first time actually Anderson Cooper.
COOPER: Yes, I`m here.
BEHAR: So, Anderson. The dad speculates that she died of a seizure.
COOPER: Right.
BEHAR: And do you think that`s true?
COOPER: You know what, the toxicology report did show that there`s no -- there were no illegal drugs in her system, so it leaves a question, prescription drugs and alcohol. There`s going to be a full toxicology report next month. But he says, look, she had a problem with alcohol, no doubt about it, and that she used to basically binge drink and then detox without a doctor, she would basically just stop drinking altogether and that her body couldn`t handle it and she used to go to seizures. He said the only prescription drug she was taking legally were anti-seizure medication, but she would still go into seizures and had to be rescued several times by a bodyguard, by her dad in one case.
BEHAR: Like epileptic seizure?
COOPER: Yeah, I guess the body`s reaction to the absence of alcohol.
BEHAR: Oh ...
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: ... like the DTs or something.
COOPER: Yeah, except I guess more of a violent response and, you know, she would swallow her tongue and bite down on her tongue. And they feel that she was alone in bed for six hours before security guards checked on her.
BEHAR: Well, they seem to say that she was on the mend there.
COOPER: They said they thought they saw light at the end of the tunnel and that three years ago -- they`d got -- four years ago, got in a call when she was at the height of her drug use, that she had died, they would have said, well, you know what, not surprising, but that this came as a real blow, because they felt like, you know what? The end is in sight, she stopped doing drugs and she`s talking about - and seriously talking about getting off alcohol. As saw in that horrible video her in Belgrade stumbling on the stage what was to be her big comeback concert this summer, that wasn`t happening.
BEHAR: So, do you think they`re spinning it a little to alleviate their guilt? Or is it true or what?
COOPER: I don`t know. You know, I mean I think - I think it remains to be seen what happened and I think we`ll know in a month. But I think they know her better than anybody and they`ve been very public and very honest all along about her drug use, it was not like they were pretending she wasn`t having substance abuse issues all along. We`ll see what happens when the drug report comes out.
BEHAR: OK, let`s talk about the housewives -- "The Real Housewives of Beverly Hills," they have a tragic thing happened. The guy committed suicide.
COOPER: Right. Russell Armstrong, the husband of Taylor Armstrong committed suicide after the production of the second season of the show and there`s a real question about should the show even be on the air at the second season and given what happened, indeed, did the show somehow contribute to his death. What a lot of people don`t realize is that Russell committed suicide the day after his business partner committed suicide. So, there is all these questions about his business, he was deeply in debt, you know, living beyond his means and questions about what was going on in his business life.
BEHAR: Right. So it could have been just that both of them had a hard time and they just both killed themselves? I mean ...
COOPER: Well, it could have been they had done something wrong and were worried about what was about to come out and they killed themselves or, you know, pressures built up. I mean with suicide you never really know one clear answer. But I think that a lot remains to be seen about Russell and what was going on.
BEHAR: How is Bravo supposed to handle this now? He was in a lot of episodes, this guy.
COOPER: He was. They are still in the process of reediting the episodes. You know, they`ve taken out things which they think would be wildly inappropriate at a scene -- in the first episode, I believe, or second episode when Taylor was going to go -- or went shopping for sexy lingerie to kind of, you know, re-kindle her marriage.
BEHAR: Yes. Yes. They are leaving that out.
COOPER: They edited that out.
BEHAR: That would be tacky.
COOPER: But it is weird. I don`t know if you ever watched the show. But I watched the whole first season as a viewer, watching the second season, you know, it was kind of a guilty pleasure of mine, and now it`s sort of, I don`t know, knowing what we know now, I don`t know, I look at it differently.
BEHAR: It`s interesting that Anderson Cooper is a "Housewives" fan.
COOPER: You know, it`s -- we`re all complex people.
BEHAR: I guess. I mean maybe they -- maybe Bravo should have canceled the whole season.
COOPER: You know, a lot of people saying that. There`s no way they`re going to -- They`ve invested a lot of money in this, this is a big company. And they know this is going to get good ratings for them.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: So I understand why they would keep it on. But, you know, it`s interesting - it`s interesting to see these women kind of try to deal with something which is very real and to see how real they really are and how to deal with.
BEHAR: So this is real reality television ...
COOPER: Right. Yes.
BEHAR: Not the kind that they`ve been doing. I don`t believe any of those shows.
COOPER: Well, yeah, a lot of it is, if not scripted, you know, they know - -you know, that`s one of the things I was kind of challenging the women on is, you know if you behave badly (ph) show. You`re going to get more camera time. So, the incentive is to be as atrocious as you can.
BEHAR: Exactly.
COOPER: Even if the producers -- I don`t believe the producers are scripting out some of the, you know, like the Bravo shows. But I think if -- they, you know, anybody who is smart enough to be on one of these shows and stay on it knows, OK, the more outrageous I am the more camera time I`ll get, and, you know, what kind of message does that send.
BEHAR: Now, let`s talk about you having your mom on your show. That`s a first.
COOPER: Yeah, it`s going to be great. Next Monday we are doing a show on my mom. And, you know, a lot of people know her as Gloria Vanderbilt and a lot of people know her from my designer jeans and perfumes and stuff. But they don`t really know she has had - she`s lived multiple lives, she`s 87 and she`s had -- and survived horrific tragedies throughout her life.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: In the time she was born, her father died when she was an infant, she was taken away in a custody battle from her own mother at the height of the Depression, it was called "the trial of the century," she was -- grew up around complete strangers, everybody she ever loved as a child was taken away from her in one way or another. My dad died when I was ten -- after 12 years of marriage and my brother committed suicide in front of her. And yet, she is a survivor but she has none of the toughness that that term implies. You know, she`s the strongest person I know but she`s not tough. You know, she`s still at 87 open to new experiences and new love. She still believes the next great love is right around the corner. And it`s really -- it`s an incredibly emotional hour. I completely lost it.
BEHAR: Did you?
COOPER: Yes. She surprised me on a couple of things. They actually -- she produced an interview with the producers of the show without my knowing about my dad and about what he would think of me. And I totally ...
BEHAR: Wow!
COOPER: I was totally --
BEHAR: That`s heavy.
COOPER: Yes. I was totally blindsided by it. But it was - it was -- I mean it`s lovely. It was really very moving.
BEHAR: How old were you when your brother committed suicide?
COOPER: I was 21 and he was 23.
BEHAR: Oh.
COOPER: Yes. So ..
BEHAR: Were you there?
COOPER: No, my - I was in Washington. He had graduated from college the year before and was working in New York and had come home and taken a nap and woke up and in front of my mother, jumped off the balcony.
BEHAR: Why? Do you know why? Maybe I know there`s no easy answer.
COOPER: Yeah, there is no easy answer. But I mean I would certainly, you know, I think the easy answer is depression and some form of it and not really ...
BEHAR: And in front of your mother now?
COOPER: In front of my mom. Yes.
BEHAR: That`s hostile.
COOPER: You know, she believes he wasn`t in any condition, he wasn`t really present, he was -- it was sort of like in this other state.
BEHAR: Yes. OK.
COOPER: And - and, you know, I mean I think he had suffered from depression and I think had a lot of fears about how to operate in the world and get along in the world and those were things, which I really took from his death of you know what, I need to chart my own course and I need to figure out how to survive. And I need to teach myself how to survive.
BEHAR: I think that`s a tough thing for you to have to go through that.
COOPER: Yeah, you know I think everybody who`s lost somebody at a young - you know, I lost my dad when I was ten, and that instantly, when I started -- I became -- you know, I wanted to start earning my own money so I got a job as a child model after my dad died, because I was worried about money which ten year-olds --you know, and especially in my position it wasn`t really a realistic perception. But ...
BEHAR: Why? Weren`t you cute?
COOPER: No. No - but so but I started taking survival courses in the wilderness to like learn how to survive and sadly, I don`t think that`s what my brother did.
BEHAR: So, your mother. Well, that must have been a terrible day for your mother ...
COOPER: Well, yes.
BEHAR: She probably wanted to jump after him.
COOPER: Well, she actually talks about it on the program.
BEHAR: She does?
COOPER: Yes. She thought about jumping and then she thought about me and decided, you know, not to.
BEHAR: Yes.
COOPER: But and - but, you know, the fact that you can overcome stuff like that and do it without it destroying you and hardening you I think is a really inspirational message and I think that something that a lot of people out there can really benefit from. And she`s just a cool, cool lady.
BEHAR: I look forward to seeing her. I mean she`s fantastic.
COOPER: It`s now - everybody, I guarantee after you watch that show next Monday, everybody is going to call up their mom if they`re still living and just wanted to have a conversation.
BEHAR: She`s a fantastic artist. I was saying you during the break.
COOPER: Yeah.
BEHAR: I love her collages.
COOPER: Yes.
BEHAR: I think she`s just wonderful.
COOPER: Now, she`s very -- she`s still painting and selling her work. And like her prices are higher than ever and she`s incredibly - and she`s like writing books. She wrote an erotic novel like two years ago.
BEHAR: I know.
COOPER: I know, and she made me proofread it.
BEHAR: How embarrassing!
COOPER: I know. I was like, Mom, really? You want me to proofread this, I was like ...
BEHAR: Ew.
COOPER: Oh, yeah, yes, yes, yes.
BEHAR: Now, what about Snooki? I hear you went to a tanning salon with her. Are you two dating or what?
COOPER: You`re right. That`s not - Johnny would punch me, I think, that`s her boyfriend now. But yeah, that`s on tomorrow program, we go - she challenged on twitter to go spray tanning with her. And I thought I was up to the challenge.
BEHAR: Let`s watch it. We have a little sneak peek.
COOPER: OK.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Snooki`s here, I`m very excited.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Hi.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Oh, my god, you`re pale.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How are you? Nice to meet you. Finally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: What is it about her that you`re so attracted to?
COOPER: I wouldn`t say attracted. I think. You know, the jersey shore I find fascinating, because frankly, when ...
BEHAR: You watch that also?
COOPER: I`ve watched one episode, and it pretty much like the others, they go out, they vomit, they fight, they drink, they kiss, they vomit, they fight, they drink, they kiss and then repeat. So I sort of get it. I mean I tune in every now and then. When they went to Florence, I wanted to see them vomit and have sex in Florence, so I like to mix it up a little bit. But I do say, of all of them I watch Snooki. I think she`s compelling, I think she`s fun. One thing I like about her is that she has a sense of humor about herself and does not take her too seriously. I`ve been talking in front of her for months on my program on CNN. And she tweeted me and she called me Mr. Ander-stand and what I felt she meant I understand her ...
BEHAR: I see.
COOPER: She said it just was a typo. But I read a lot into it.
BEHAR: How did she like Italy?
COOPER: She said to me -- I said, that`s what I said on the program to her, tomorrow, I said to her, I said to her, like, so, yeah, how did you like Italy? And she was like, well, you know, it`s like a foreign country. And I was like, you know what, it`s more than just like a foreign country, it is a foreign country.
BEHAR: What did she think, it was like Jersey to go to Florence?
COOPER: But she`s you know, she`s a trooper and she actually really does have a sense of humor about herself, which, you know, I mean, you know, you meet a lot of celebrities who have no sense of humor about themselves.
BEHAR: We never have them on this show. They`re not allowed on this show.
COOPER: Right.
BEHAR: The other person that interests me is that you had Gerard Depardieu on the show.
COOPER: Oh man.
BEHAR: And what did he do? He peed on airplane?
COOPER: Yeah, that`s on tomorrow`s show also, with Snooki. Yeah, Gerard Depardieu, you know, I had this giggle fit like a couple weeks ago on CNN, where ...
BEHAR: Yeah, I heard about that.
COOPER: I could not stop giggling, and I don`t know what happened. And it was about - I was poking fun of Gerard Depardieu who peed on a plane and not in the bathroom. And so -- so we had Gerard Depardieu on the show. He`s on the show tomorrow and he is so funny and like so played along with it. And I was asking him, you know, why in the world did you pee on a plane ...
BEHAR: Yeah.
COOPER: In a bottle in front of everybody else?
BEHAR: Oh, in a bottle? It wasn`t on the floor.
COOPER: Well, it got on the floor because, you know, the bottle overflowed.
BEHAR: OK.
COOPER: Oh, yes. No, visualize that. But he was so funny and really came to play, and I mean it was one of the funniest interviews I have ever had.
BEHAR: You know they call that, must pee TV.
OK, Anderson, thanks very much. You can check your local listings to see when Anderson airs in your area. We`ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: You can always get your daily dose from TV`s "The Doctors," now in its fourth season. The show is doling out even stronger medicine. Watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When you come to know Jillian like we do, you are going to quickly realize the title America`s toughest trainer, it only scratches the surface.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BEHAR: Here to discuss the latest health headlines, are Dr. Travis Stork and health and wellness expert Jillian Michaels. Welcome to the show, guys.
Before we get into some medical things, Jillian, what`s your role on the show?
JILLIAN MICHAELS, CO-HOST, THE DOCTORS: Basically, I play the role of the super viewer, I am really the voice of the audience. Because all my co-hosts are doctors, and sometimes they forget that there are things that the laymen don`t know. And so I have the ability to ask those questions and get them to expand on their answers. And also talk about the angle of prevention with them as well.
BEHAR: That`s great. You need that.
DR. TRAVIS STORK, CO-HOST, THE DOCTORS: We do. And Jillian brings a level of motivation that anyone can use, and it`s already played itself out so many times this year where Jillian will ask a question that we aren`t even thinking of. And it`s a great way to respond because Jillian, she may not know about, hey, should I get this latest vaccine, and we`ll answer Jillian and I know the viewers at home have the same question.
BEHAR: OK. Let`s talk about some of the medical things that are -- stories that are going around. There`s this film "Contagion" out right now and they tell me that it opened at No. 1 this weekend. Could that happen, a virus that is really like a pandemic virus? What are your thoughts on that?
STORK: Not only could it happen, it`s likely that at some point it will happen.
BEHAR: Really?
STORK: Yes, pandemics have occurred throughout the history of time. I feel like we have this naive notion that medical technology will defeat it before it occurs. People look back at the swine flu and think, that never became a big deal.
BEHAR: The HNL --
STORK: H1N1.
BEHAR: Is that the swine flu?
STORK: That was the swine flu. And what people need to realize is this isn`t a time to panic, but this could occur and that is why we need to make sure that we`re prepared.
BEHAR: How do we do that?
MICHAELS: Well, this is a funny question, because we just did a segment on the show about this. I was saying, OK, well, I am going to stockpile anti-virals, that`s what I`m going to do, is that the right thing? And Travis responded by saying absolutely not.
BEHAR: What are anti-virals? I thought there is nothing you can take for a virus.
STORK: For influenza, there are anti-virals you can take. But the No. 1 thing you can do is get vaccinated against it. But when these new versions of whether it is flu or some other wild virus, when they hop from animal to humans, we don`t have the immune system to protect ourselves. So what we need to make sure that we do as a country and internationally, is we need to have systems in place that we can get a vaccine created as quickly as possible. And like Jillian said, you don`t want to stockpile medications as an individual because you may end up with them in your pantry and someone across the street could be dying from it.
BEHAR: They expire. You can`t just keep them there waiting for 10 years.
STORK: Right.
BEHAR: For the virus to hit. Now, let me ask you something else. There`s a new children`s picture book out and it`s called "Maggie Goes on a Diet." It is about an overweight 14-year-old and it is causing an uproar, I think because of the word diet. What do you think about that, Jillian?
MICHAELS: We actually discussed this, we both agree with you. And we`d love for it to be called -- I`d like it to be called "Maggie Gets Healthy." Travis wants it to be called "Maggie`s Parents Create a Healthy Environment for Her to Live Out Her Life."
BEHAR: But would that sell?
STORK: Unfortunately, it wouldn`t. And I`ve learned that as a doctor. You need to get things to sell, they need to be catchy. But you don`t need to be having a children`s book teaching young 5-, 6-year-olds that being skinny is what`s healthy and dieting is what is healthy.
BEHAR: And Amazon recommends it for 4-8-year-old children. What do you make of that? It`s terrible I think.
MICHAELS: The implication --
STORK: I agree.
MICHAELS: Is in particular, that if you are skinny, you are going to be successful and everyone is going to like you. And if you`re chubby or overweight, everyone is going to hate you and no one will want to be your friend. And that`s discrimination. We never want to teach our kids discrimination.
BEHAR: I mean, there is reality to the fact that fat kids are tortured and bullied all over the place. So there is a reality to it.
STORK: So we need to teach our young children how to live healthier lives, but that`s in the home environment. As a parent, it`s your job in my opinion to teach your 6- and 7-year-old what it means to be healthy. They shouldn`t be reading a book in my opinion that tells them that skinny is how you are successful in life.
MICHAELS: And don`t threaten them with fear mongering, like if you don`t get healthy, everyone is going to hate you. We should incentivize them by finding activities that they love to do, by cooking with them, being active with them. We should use positive reinforcement, not fear tactics.
BEHAR: So what would you suggest that mothers do with their girls? It`s very hard to raise a girl in that sense.
MICHAELS: Be a role model. Lead by example. Build her confidence and self-esteem. Teach her about being healthy, not about being skinny. Get her in an activity she loves, like gymnastics or dance, that`s going to be social, boost her confidence and be fun for her.
BEHAR: What do you do with a kid who is genetically overweight? There are kids that just the genes kick in.
MICHAELS: I don`t believe in that.
BEHAR: You don`t?
MICHAELS: No.
STORK: So genetics play a role, there`s no doubt about it. But if you create a healthy environment for your kids -- I`m not going to say that some kids don`t lose weight more easily than others -- but it`s about creating a healthy environment. You get your kids active and feed them healthy foods.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: They need to have gym and after-school programs, too, to keep these kids moving. OK, we`re going to continue this after a quick break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
BEHAR: We`re back with the co-hosts of the Emmy Award winning show "The Doctors," Dr. Travis Stork and Jillian Michaels. And we`ll be curious to know how men measure up to women when it pertains to sex. So, Jillian, how does being overweight affect one`s performance?
MICHAELS: Well, I can say that men are at a great disadvantage, because for every 30 pounds that they lose, they gain an inch of size down there.
BEHAR: Of penis?
MICHAELS: Yes.
BEHAR: Are you kidding me?
MICHAELS: No.
STORK: Well, it doesn`t actually get bigger, it`s just more visible.
(CROSSTALK)
STORK: Well, when you`re overweight, when you`re overweight as a man and you have a lot of excess weight above where -- can I say penis on your show?
BEHAR: Yes, I just said it.
STORK: Where the male penis comes out, it hides the base, and so as men lose weight, they actually will appear longer. And you know what, they also will perform better. Better blood flow, which is what creates erections, and so they`ll also have more testosterone.
BEHAR: And they won`t smother the girl either. What about the sex drive? Obesity and the sex drive? Does it change or do chubbies love it just as much as the skinny ones?
STORK: You know, first of all, I want to make it very clear that everyone should enjoy a healthy sex life. And if you do lose weight, you will probably enjoy sex more, have a higher sex drive because your testosterone levels will likely go up.
BEHAR: They go up when you`re thinner?
MICHAELS: Healthier.
STORK: When you`re healthier.
BEHAR: Really?
STORK: But the other thing I will say is, if you`re overweight and you have not talked with a doctor about it, sometimes it can be due to hormones that are affecting your sex drive more than the fact that you`re overweight. So discuss it with a doctor if you have no sex drive.
BEHAR: I see.
MICHAELS: I think your confidence might be improved, you might feel more comfortable with your body when you`re a little bit healthier.
BEHAR: Oh, I don`t know, men don`t care what they look like, let`s face it.
STORK: Yes, they do.
BEHAR: The love handles are on the -- they don`t care.
(CROSSTALK)
BEHAR: I`m naked, I`m gorgeous, look at me how stunning I am. Only women obsess about their bodies when they`re naked.
STORK: This is why I like women, and not men.
BEHAR: Because they obsess about their bodies?
STORK: Well because --
BEHAR: Because they care about their bodies.
MICHAELS: Yes.
BEHAR: Men care but not as much as women. They don`t -- they walk around naked all the time. They don`t think anything of it.
(CROSSTALK)
MICHAELS: Do you walk around naked all the time?
STORK: No. I really don`t want to talk about this anymore.
BEHAR: OK. You can see the new season of "The Doctors" weekdays, check your local listings. Thank you for watching. Good night, everybody. Keep those love handles intact.
END
