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King Charles

Rep. George Santos (R-NY) Facing Potential Expulsion From Congress; Rapper's Lyrics Used As Evidence Against Him In Trial; KING CHARLES Maiden Episode. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired November 29, 2023 - 22:00   ET




KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you so much for joining us from Tel Aviv. A new kind of conversation with Gayle King and Charles Barkley is starting right now. KING CHARLES and its premiere begins now.

GAYLE KING, CNN HOST: KING CHARLES starts now. Welcome, welcome. I like how that started, Charles Barkley.

CHARLES BARKLEY, CNN HOST: I am so excited. Great work by the crew.

KING: Me too. Thank you, crew. We thank you so much for joining us tonight. This is KING CHARLES, our brand new show right here on CNN.

Now, just seeing the two of us should tell you that this is going to be something a little different. Wouldn't you agree?

BARKLEY: That's an understatement.

KING: That's an understatement? How?

BARKLEY: But it's going to be fun.

KING: How so? How is it an understatement?

BARKLEY: Well, because we're going to have fun. We're going to give opinions. We're not going to be opinionated. We're going to give opinions. That's a difference.

KING: Right. But I'm already a little worried, Charles. I went to the dentist today and I was leaving, a woman came up to me and she said, Gayle, I'm really excited about your King George show with Charles Barkley.

BARKLEY: Listen, first of all, I just want to make people think I'm not calling myself KING CHARLES. It's Gayle King and Charles Barkley.

KING: There's a method to our madness.

BARKLEY: Yes. KING: We're going to talk about some of the biggest stories in the world, but you should know, we are not a show of record. We are a show of what we find interesting. Some of it will be very serious. Some of it will be silly.

BARKLEY: That's me.

KING: Some of it will be both. Because, frankly, we think that's sort of life, don't you think?

BARKLEY: Well, it should be fun, but sometimes we got to be serious.

KING: That's right, and we know how to do that. Hopefully, this show will be a place for people who care about what's going on in the world, but also a place for people who might just need a bit of a break. And I'm thinking, we all need a break these days.

BARKLEY: We definitely need a break from life today.

KING: Because the world is nuts.

And this show, by the way, isn't a one-way street. We want to hear from you. So, we're asking you this. Please leave us a voicemail. Ask us anything. And, Charles, we have our own number. What is it, dear? What's our number?

BARKLEY: 1-855-3434-KING.

KING: Okay. Now, tell people what that number means.

BARKLEY: Well, I don't know what the 855 is, but 3434 is my number from Phoenix and Philadelphia and from my special friend, King.

KING: And look how cute you look. How old were you in that Sixers uniform?

BARKLEY: Probably 26, 27.

KING: 26, and you lost a mustache when?

BARKLEY: Well, when I realized it was ugly.

KING: Okay. And then how old were you in this --


KING: Very nice. Very nice.

BARKLEY: Those are called the good old days?

KING: I really like it.

Tonight NBA head coach of the Golden State Warriors. I'll bet you know him, Steve Kerr.

BARKLEY: Great coach, great person. KING: Really nice guy. He's going to join us to talk about how the loss of his father to an active terror in the 80s shaped his worldview.

Plus, we'll talk about a Georgia trial. A lot of us are talking about this. It's got huge implications that does not involve the former president.

And the two people who say they have the best jobs in media right now are here.

BARKLEY: Yes, we are.

KING: Besides us, I do think we have one of the best jobs in media, no kidding. Beyonce and Taylor Swift's new national correspondents are making their T.V. debut tonight.

But first, Charles, we got to talk about this. Roll tape.


REP. GEORGE SANTOS (R-NY): There's people with all sorts of shiesty backgrounds and all of a sudden, George Santos is the Mary Magdalene of United States Congress.

I will not be resigning. Are we to now assume that one is no longer innocent until proven guilty and they are in fact guilty until proven innocent or are we now to simply assume that because somebody doesn't like you, they get to throw you out of your job?


REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): The American people aren't worried about George Santos. They're worried about what they're paying for gas. They're worried about what they're paying for eggs.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): What we've said as the leadership team is we're going to allow people to vote their conscience. I think it's the only appropriate thing we can do. We've not whipped the vote and we wouldn't. I trust that people will make that decision thoughtfully and in good faith. I personally have real reservations about doing this.


KING: Okay. Trips to Atlantic City, casinos and the Hamptons, shopping at Hermes, Botox and purchases rather on OnlyFans. Charles, do you want to share about your OnlyFans account?

BARKLEY: I don't have one of those.

KING: Okay.

BARKLEY: I don't have one of those.

KING: Okay. Just checking.

According to a House Ethics Committee report, that's just a day in the life of New York Congressman George Santos.

So, where to begin on all of this? We brought in Van Lathan of the Ringer's Higher Learning Podcast and the host of Laura Coates Live. Hello, Laura. Laura Coates is with us now to help us sort it all out.

So, there's a third attempt to expel the Congressman Santos right now. You kick it off, Charles. What are you thinking?

BARKLEY: This story makes me sick to my stomach, to be honest with you. First of all, it shouldn't take three attempts. Gayle, there's no job in the world where you could lie that much and keep your job. There's not a normal person watching this show who would go to a job and just tell complete lies, and then they found out about it and they would keep their job. I don't understand why it would take three times. I mean, this just shows you how broken our political system is, because you can lie that much and keep your job.

KING: Yes. But people say you're innocent until proven guilty.

BARKLEY: Well, you've been proven guilty.

LAURA COATES, CNN ANCHOR: Well, he has the Ethics report. I admit, I mean, the receipts, first of all, the receipts, the Botox, is it Ferragamo, is it the idea -- I mean, I can't afford Heremes, why I would mispronounce it every single time. You also have the OnlyFans.

I mean, everything about it, he is defiant and he is saying and he's daring everyone. He's saying, put up or shut up because you might, down the line, have some allegation against you and they're going to expel you. Now, it won't be the same thing, but that's what he's holding onto, this sort of slippery slope attitude (ph).

KING: But it makes me think, though, guys, that there's no shame.

VAN LATHAN, CO-HOST, THE RINGER'S HIGHER LEARNING PODCAST: There's not. But that's -- I mean, that's where we are in America. I love him. I should be honest with you.

COATES: You love George Santos?

LATHAN: Yes. So, I didn't like him and then I found out that he spent $400,000 on OnlyFans, and I'm like, that's me. You know what I mean? And so I'm like, that's like my guy.

Look, you guys, America has to come to grips with who we are. We think that we're Barack Obama, this super polished, educated guy who never says anything wrong. But, really, right now America is George Santos. We are the OnlyFans freak who is going to the casinos and doing all of this stuff. I think he's the perfect mascot for political dysfunction. I want to see him stand around for as long as he can.

KING: Van, do you think political scandal is now normalized at this point? Is this where we are today in America?

LATHAN: Well, it's always been normalized but it's never been sensationalized to this degree. You've always had Gary Hart, you've always had, you know, the Kennedy brothers.

KING: But that wasn't considered normal back then.

BARKLEY: It wasn't considered normal. This is more normalized but I think we've lost our way a little bit and I think we need a mascot for it.

COATES: First of all, If George Santos and lying like he is, is American, I must not be. I must need to check my passport again. It's not a normal thing what he's doing.

KING: Yes.

BARKLEY: There's a couple of things. I do think you're right, the reason other politicians don't condemn him, they don't want us looking into there what they're doing with their money on the side. That's what I truly believe. Because there's no way, all that stuff, the fans only, nothing, spending all this money, they don't want us looking at their bank accounts where their money goes.

But my biggest problem goes back to, you shouldn't -- you can't get elected lying like that. That's my problem with the whole thing. You should not -- you should get -- everybody else will get fired from their job. And we're not talking about the stuff you're talking about. Like he lied about where he went to college.

COATES: He didn't have any of those. He didn't even go there.

BARKLEY: He didn't go there. He lied about where he worked.

KING: He didn't work there.

COATES: He didn't work there.

BARKLEY: That stuff had been proven.

LATHAN: Can I be real with you, though?


LATHAN: Once again, I mean, I'm not making excuses for George Santos. I actually think that's kind of normal. I think if you look at people, they lie on their resumes. They lie about who they've been with.

BARKLEY: Yes, that's a -- no disrespect. That's to get a job at a fast food restaurant.

COATES: I mean, I may have lied about my weight on my driver's license, but everyone does do that. But no one is talking about the rest of it.

KING: You really do believe most people lie on their resume?

LATHAN: I believe that most people are in their resume.

KING: I don't need to. BARKLEY: Not to that good extent.

COATES: No, they might embellish. Maybe they might talk about that all the things they have done through the course of a 40-hour week to gain experience. But he was saying things like, at first, he was Jewish. Oh, no, no, actually, I was just Jew-ish. Then he talked about his mother being involved at 9-11. It did not happen. Then he talked -- and you said his money is not his money.


It was campaign-related money. It belonged to the campaign. It was donors who had the money that they spent now on his forehead in Botox.

KING: I think people -- Van, I think people embellish sometimes, but I don't think the extent of his lies, that's what I think. And I think the fact that he has doubled down and says I'm not going anywhere. That's what I don't get.

LATHAN: Let me be serious for a second. I think that the campaign finance -- the campaign finance irregularities and things like that, I think those are serious issues. I do think there is a part of this that is the policing of the quirkiness of George Santos that makes him an easy political target to me in a climate where there is so much rampant lying, misinformation and misleading of the American people, that he's being scapegoated in a way. I don't like --

BARKLEY: Well, most in fairness, though, Van, most people lie after they get the job. They don't lie to get the job, you know, yes. He lied to get the job and he continued to lie. Most politicians, they don't start lying and become crooks after they get the job. That's my problem with this whole fiasco.

KING: But I think you're onto something, though, Charles, when you say people aren't really -- some of his fellow colleagues aren't criticizing them because they don't want them looking -- they don't want them to look at what they're doing.

BARKLEY: 100 percent.

KING: Because George Santos is sort of implying that if he goes down, he's not going down alone. He's already said the other day, yes.

COATES: He is very clear about that threat. And I bet, of course, there are skeletons in the closet of many members of Congress. I'm sure we can find that, which is why part of the reason here people have criticized the media, because the fact that we're finding out this stuff through the Ethics report or after the election at a time when, normally, when you had local newspapers that were flourishing at a different time and everyone wasn't turning towards television for all their news all the time, you had vetting. You had the opposition research from the other candidate that would have found this stuff out.

In fact, his own campaign found out a lot of this stuff, but they still allowed him to get there. And as the people of his district are now suffering because it's probably going to flip back once he's not in office.

KING: The vote to expel is going to take place this week. Let's go around. Would you vote to expel, Laura?



KING: Oh man. Really?

LATHAN: I mean, they're not going to do nothing to Congress. We might as well be entertained, but, yes, I vote for expel.

KING: All right, Van. Just ahead -- I would definitely vote to expel, just saying. We're going to talk about a trial with wide-ranging implications for American culture. That, as we said earlier, does not involve the former president. Should a rapper's lyrics be used as evidence? We'll see. We're talking about that right after the break.

You're watching KING CHARLES.



BARKLEY: We welcome you back, welcome the people back, Charles, to our debut show.

BARKLEY: Yes, yes, welcome to KING CHARLES.

KING: Yes, we are so glad to be here.

All right, this is what we're going to do now. Play something for you right now that many people think of simply as music or art. And we're asking you to please keep an eye on the lyrics at the bottom of the screen because prosecutors are calling them evidence.

Now those lyrics from Just How It Is, a song by Grammy-nominated hip- hop artist Young Thug, were quoted in the indictment for racketeering and gang conspiracy charges the rapper is currently facing. And the judge says this, that prosecutors are allowed to use these and many more in trial. Well, that has a lot of people talking.

Back with us to break it all down bar for bar, we're so glad Laura Coates agreed to stay. Laura Coates, by the way, she's a badass. She happens to be CNN's chief legal correspondent. You're going to be on the air later on tonight.

COATES: Thank you. I am. I'm happy to be in this fabulous show.

KING: And Grammy nominated hip hop artist, author and entrepreneur Fat Joe is here. Fat Joe, we're so glad you're here.

FAT JOE, GRAMMY-NOMINATED ARTIST, AUTHOR AND ENTREPRENEUR: Thanks for having me. BARKLEY: So, we want to start with you because you've been behind the push to stop this kind of prosecution. What's your reaction when you see that he's on trial, accused, and that his lyrics can now be used against him in this trial?

FAT JOE: That's horrible. It's a travesty. I've been rapping professionally for 30 years. I've lied in almost 95 percent of my songs. I'm being -- lied. Like just go -- I write like I feel that day. I'm just being creative. You know, you could probably put -- you couldn't build the jail high enough for the lyrics I've said on songs, which are all untrue. What I am is a family man, the person who gives back to my community all the time, open businesses in my community. So, the music would never amount to the actual person Joseph Cartagena.

So, what's even more horrible is that the district attorneys, they know those lyrics ain't real. They know that's creativity. But if it helps their case, they'll use it to put these guys in jail. And here, we're having a fun show about it in discussion, but there really is six defendants in Atlanta who might spend the rest of their life in jail for something that's totally not true.

KING: Yes, you're saying this is not a laughing matter. This is very serious.

FAT JOE: This is very serious. This destroys families. This destroys -- I would say those guys got at least 100 people that are employed by them that they pay their bills. No Thanksgiving for them, no Thanksgiving for the 100 employees.

And this case right here is setting such a precedence in America, because they've used this before in up and coming aspiring artists. They never took a guy off the stage in the arena. You know, a number one artist that my daughter and all the kids look up to and say, no, you're going on trial for this. And it's nasty work, it's real nasty work.

COATES: But you know what? Let me play devil's advocate, AKA, prosecutor, because you know the phrase, everything you say can and will be used against you in court of law. We all know it from Law and Order. But more directly, they are being charged with this RICO violation, this conspiracy that says you have a criminal enterprise, a gang, and what you're actually rapping about is not a lie. They're saying it's not a lie, it's evidence.


We want to use it that way.

Now, you know, embellishment happens all the time, and obviously his argument is, I'm just saying these things because it sells, not because I actually did it, But you only have to prove in these type of cases that you actually ordered them to do it but you have to have that this enterprise was around and they carried things out.

And so maybe trying to deter people from using it in a way to incentivize other people from thinking it's real.

FAT JOE: Let me play devil's advocate with you. How was your client, if you were the defense attorney, did you think that this was right using these lyrics against the client?

COATES: No. You know what I would do if I was a defense attorney, exactly what they're doing, which says, he is just an artist. I can no longer charge him as if you were to say, I'm going to charge Picasso, because he didn't accurately depict the way the dimensions of the face actually should look. It's an artistic license. However, you got that RICO charge.

BARKLEY: What about freedom of speech?

COATES: That's going to be the argument, but that's not what they're talking about here. They're really saying, you are free to say what you're saying, but you're not going to be not liable for what you have said. If I were to hire somebody as a hit man, I had the freedom of speech to say it, but I can be prosecuted for having asked the person to do it.

BARKLEY: But don't they have to actually hire a hit man and somebody to die?

COATES: That's the thing about RICO. I don't have to actually carry out the crime. It's like the mob boss crime everyone talks about, but that's where the issue is.

KING: But most of the time, RICO is used for the mob.

COATES: It is. That's what they're talking about, YSL (ph).

FAT JOE: Well, it started that way, you know, because there's always an excuse to go after a law. It starts out with the mob, and then it comes down to the black and the Latino community, and they slay it (ph).

KING: And the former president is also in a RICO case too, Laura, he's also in a RICO case.

COATES: Yes, absolutely. This is why everyone is not only because it's YSL. Not only because of what are present reasons you're talking about, Joe, and that really is the crux of this case that people are talking about it, but also because it's the same crime that Donald Trump was charged with, and it's the same D.A., Fani Willis, who is looking at this case and everyone saying, how is she going to try this one to figure out the rest?

But it's different because there are states like your own hometown in New York that are saying, you should not be able to use rap lyrics to get somebody in prison. That's the artistry.

FAT JOE: But it's the truth. Martin Scorsese should be in jail for 10 million years. Arnold Schwarzenegger was the governor. He should be in jail for 20,000 years. If we're going to take everything that's offensive -- KING: Why should Arnold be in jail?

FAT JOE: Because this guy killed 10,000 people in movies. So, it's like if we're saying, I'm telling you I lied for 20, 30 years of my life on music, just being creative and telling stories, how could you be charged for your imagination?

KING: But one of the things the prosecutors say too, Joe and Laura, help me with this, they say, the things that he rapped about have actually happened. That's one of the arguments, the things that they rap about.

FAT JOE: If you're a gangster rapper, whatever you are rapping about happens in every intercity and if you can make it close enough, then you can use that to your advantage. The truth is, if you really want to put these gentlemen in jail and they're really criminals, use real evidence. Use real facts.

KING: But they're saying, I could have rapped about it, but that doesn't mean I did it. I've seen it, I know about it, but it doesn't mean I did it.

FAT JOE: Exactly.

BARKLEY: Do you ever felt compromised, I mean, as far as like ever worried?

FAT JOE: No, because, you know, minds don't add up. Minds don't add up. But this definitely puts vulnerability once again to all rappers all around the world up and coming. And not only that, the one thing I agree with you, Laura, and you're very intelligent, is I do believe that freedom of speech is on trial in America right now. We're using the face of a rapper, but this is freedom of speech on trial.

KING: Do you feel that it's just the rap community that's under fire? Because there have been other genres who have talked about violence.

FAT JOE: Shot the sheriff, you know, mama, just killed the man.

KING: Bohemian Rhapsody, yes.

FAT JOE: You know, it's just so many songs, you know, but it always targets the rap community. So, that's why we got to be very, very careful with the youth and they got to really take notice to what's going on right now with this trial because, once again, this has been used against artists before, but that's artist Joe Schmoe. They went and took the number one artist in America and put him on a RICO trial. I mean, this is unheard of and they're doing this because I'm watching the trial every day on YouTube. This is on T.V.

COATES: It's not just the lyrics though. I mean, and some of it is, they are talking about YSL as being a subset of the Bloods and they're using body language. They're talking about, you know, the wipe the nose motion they're trying to do. They're talking about slat, different words that are being used to say, you all have some representation and some camaraderie in a way that tells me that you're one of them. And so they're adding that to the lyrics. You're talking about that he rented one of the sedans.

I'm not saying he's guilty because there is a presumption of innocence, but it's not just the lyrics. It's not just an isolated in the vacuum, it is the culmination and it's years' worth.


Do you really think that he is the Joe Schmoe rapper? Because he is -- I mean, he's YSL now, and he really is somebody --

FAT JOE: I don't know how a number one rapper in America and could run a criminal enterprise. I just don't know how that works. This guy is on tour. This guy is making music. This guy is hiring people. This guy's shooting videos. This guy is doing an award show. But to say he's John Gotti is -- because that's what we're saying, right? That's the RICO. Like I can't see it in that way.

Now, I don't know this young man. I don't know. I'm here on the issue of freedom of speech. So, I can't tell you what evidence they do or they don't have. But I know RICO itself is like the easiest case to convict in the world. And then you got the lyric, rap lyrics, it's like, man, the fix is in. Like, you know, it's like, it's a walk in the park.

KING: So, you're very worried about this?

FAT JOE: Yes, it's an ugly case. You know, it's an ugly case. You know, Atlanta's a tight-knit community. And so everybody knows everybody over there. Even though it's a big city, everybody knows everybody over there.

And the fact that you have to always keep in mind is the human factor. There's jealousy, there's hatred. You know, I've seen it myself.

BARKLEY: Racism?

FAT JOE: Yes, racism. I've been in places where, you know, I've watched police officers look at me like, yo, why is he eating steak and lobster in here? Why is he drinking champagne and walks past all of us? So, it brings some type of envious and jealousy to it. So it's going to be --

KING: And this trial is just getting started and all eyes on it.

Joe, thank you so much for coming in today.

FAT JOE: Thank you, Gayle. I love you bubblegum pink.

BARKLEY: Well, she wants to be known as magenta. That's when you know you got money. You make up your own --

FAT JOE: Thank you. Congratulations on the show. We know it's a hit.

KING: Thank you. I really appreciate it in my magenta suit.

We have a lot more to come tonight, including a rare interview with NBA head coach Steve Kerr. He's got a very unique connection to what is unfolding in the Middle East. We'll talk with him right after the break.



BARKLEY: Welcome back. We're excited about our next guest. He's one of the great people in the NBA. He's won five championships as a player, four as a head coach, but he reached the pinnacle of his life today being the first guest on the KING CHARLES show. Welcome Steve Kerr.

KING: Welcome Steve Kerr. Listen, that's nine championships. Is that more than you, Charles?

BARKLEY: Oh, that's nine more than me.

KING: That's nine more than you. Steve, we're happy to say he's joining us from the Chase Center in San Francisco. Steve, I have to say, full disclosure, you coach- One of my favorite player on one of my favorite teams, shout out to Steph Curry. Really, really, really love your team. And I think the world to you. We want to talk about that in just a second, but first we've all been watching hostages reunited with their families after the terror attack in Israel and the war that's followed.

We thought that Steve Kerr would have a very unique perspective on this. Why some of you may not, some of you at home may not know about this, but Steve Kerr was born in Lebanon. His dad was Malcolm Kerr, was a professor there and president of American University of Beirut. Here he is in a 1983 CNN interview.


MALCOM KERR, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN UNIVERSITY IN BEIRUT: And now, of course, political controversy clouds many things, but I'd say that the main reason Lebanese, Syrians, Palestinians, Egyptians and others still want to keep in touch with the United States and still believe in contact and so on is because they know we've got things like this in our culture, in our society, that are really fundamental. Education, medical care, research, open doors.


KING: Three months later in 1984, when Steve was a freshman in college, his father was assassinated by terrorists. So Steve, you bring a very unique perspective to this conversation. Big sigh, just looking at your dad on the tape. You know what it's like to lose a family member to an act of terror. And I'm wondering what your thoughts are as you're watching what's unfolding in Israel and Gaza.

STEVE KERR, NBA HEAD COACH, GOLDEN STATE WARRIORS: Well, it's devastating. And of course, as it's happening, it reminds me and my family of what happened to my dad. And so we understand the loss that so many people are feeling, both in Israel and in the Gaza Strip. It's just devastating. The atrocities of the attack itself, followed by 11,000 Palestinian civilians being killed, there's no way around it. It's just total devastation for -- for everybody involved and brings up a lot of really terrible memories for my family and me.

KING: I was wondering about that. How did you get the news about your dad? You're a freshman in college. How did you get that news?

KERR: They got a phone call in the middle of the night from one of his colleagues at the American University about 3 am and I just remember basically hysterically crying and not knowing what to do and it was just something that you don't wish on anybody.

But you also, for me it gave me a perspective on life. Every time I hear about someone dying from gun violence, I think about my own experience and the shock and the pain that goes with it. And that's one of the reasons I've really taken on, you know, the gun violence prevention issue as kind of a pet project, something that I really devote a lot of time to.

BARKLEY: Yeah, I was gonna say, Steve, number one, I wanna thank you personally. I wanna thank Greg Popovich, we got a lot of other great coaches, you know, talking about George Floyd, you spoke brilliant about that you and coach Popovich about police brutality but to pick it back on your point about the gun violence what do you think really needs to be done because we seem to be having these conversations every week, every month, every year.


What do we really need to do to address gun violence?

KERR: Well, unfortunately, our democracy is not working right now, Charles, because if you look at the data, 80 percent of Americans, 80 to 90 percent of Americans want universal background checks, regardless if you're a Republican or a Democrat.

70 percent of Americans think that weapons of military backgrounds, AR-15, semi-automatic rifles. 70 percent of us don't believe that American citizens should have their hands on weapons like those. But our policy don't reflect that. Our policies that the government has the power to put in place don't reflect the people's wishes.

And so it's yet another issue in American society that's tied up in politics and money and power. Frankly, what we actually need is some Republican candidates to be able to run on a policy of guns violence prevention and not be kicked out of their party. If they can actually run and win elections with the idea of protecting American families, now our democracy will work. But we're too tied up in political turmoil for that to actually happen right now.

KING: Yeah, and I'm thinking about the political turmoil in the Middle East because this war in particular seems to be so hard to talk about, Steve. Whatever your position, whatever your position, you're going to offend someone. And do you have any guidance on how we can navigate that? I'm wondering, because I've read that your dad really did believe in peace in the Middle East. He would get very excited about the prospect of peace in the Middle East. KERR: That was his area of expertise. He grew up in Lebanon. He spoke

fluent Arabic. When I was growing up, that's all I heard at the dinner table was that the Arab-Israeli peace possibility. I remember when in 1979, I was 14 I guess, when Carter and Begin and Sadat stood on the White House lawn. Camp David accords were signed, there was finally peace between Israel and Egypt.

My dad was just flying high. It was the happiest moment I've ever seen him. So this was his whole career was based on the pursuit of peace in the Middle East. So as I watch it now, I wish he were still alive to explain the nuances. But my thought is it's all about the nuance.

And unfortunately, in our society today, people don't want to recognize nuance. They want black and white. They want you're either on this side or that side. My advice to people, read Tom Friedman from the "New York Times." Tom Friedman is the foremost expert on Middle East peace. He's been studying this issue his entire life. All of his articles the last few weeks really examine the nuance, the fact that there are Israeli people who are desperately trying to help people in the Gaza Strip.

There were Palestinian people desperately trying to help Israelis on that awful day of October 7th, get to safety. Humanity exists and you know that's the search we have to find the humanity within all this but it's so difficult given the atrocities and given the state of our world today and social media and how we sort of communicate together.

KING: Yeah that's good advice about Tom Friedman you are spot-on about that.

BARKLEY: You know Steve number one I didn't know a lot about your dad but just listen to you speak about him and watch that little 30-second clip we've shown. You're talking about how happy he was during that time. Between him, Phil Jackson, Greg Popovich, you're talking about three of the most amazing men, sound like, been blessed to have in your life. How do all three of those men influence you?

KERR: That's a great question, Charles. I think about all three all the time, especially my father of course. But the opportunity to play for Phil and Pop, what a gift, what a gift. What I think about is the curiosity, not only of basketball, but the world. Having interest outside the game for Phil and Pop, the perspective they provided for our teams, the idea that there's way more going on out there than just this game really helped me become a better player and a better person, a better teammate. And I try to impart some of that wisdom that I learned from those three figures, my dad and Phil and Pop, to some of our players.


But no question, I've been incredibly blessed to have an amazing father and some incredible coaches as well.

KING: And then you carry on that is the legacy of being incredible coach. You know many people who play under you have nothing but great positive things to say but I saw a comment about the game last night, Charles, you recall what someone said about the Warrior game last night?

BARKLEY: They're old, you know, what you know -- no and listen this is not personal with the amount of success that the wars have had Draymond, Clay, Steph, like people don't understand the NBA playoffs is like a two-month marathon and they've had so much success and everybody gets older when you have a lot of success. So I said I said two years ago I said it's gonna come down to the young guys on the Warriors and they let one of them Wiseman go.

KING: Yeah, but didn't you make a comment about the Warriors last night? Didn't I see a post from you last night?


KING: About getting cooked?

BARKLEY: Gayle, let me tell you something.

KING: Did you see that Steve?

BARKLEY: Steve, Steve.

KING: Did you see that?

BARKLEY: Gayle, Gayle.

KERR: I did not see it, but I'm okay with it. I'm used to Charles' comments, so I'm okay with it.

BARKLEY: You know, Steve, don't believe everything you read on the internet, because me and Gayle apparently hate each other.

KING: Yeah, there is a story, yeah, but that's not true.

KERR: I also remember that Charles that -- No, I was gonna say I also remember you claimed you were misquoted in your own autobiography.

KING: Yes --

KERR: I remember that.

KING: Yes. Yes, yes. Yes.

BARKLEY: First of all, I said I didn't remember one thing Steve. Hey Steve, stop messing up the interview. We're having a great interview.

KERR: All right, you go on you go on.

KING: Steve Kerr, thank you, thank you, thank you very much for joining us. We really appreciate it.

BARKLEY: You have made it, Steve. You're the first guest on our first show. You have made it.

KERR: Hey, I am honored. And I miss working with you, Charles. And great to see you. Great to be with you, Gayle. Thank you, guys. KING: Thank you. Thank you.

BARKLEY: Thank you, Steve.

KING: Cheering you on always.

How's this for a dream job? The reason you're hearing "Wildest Dreams" by Taylor Swift. There you hear it right now. "Wildest Dreams" by Taylor Swift is because Taylor Swift and Beyonce now have their own official beat reporters. What's your favorite Taylor Swift song?

BARKLEY: I don't know a lot, but I'm going to just warn Taylor Swift one thing. Travis Kelsey is a good friend of mine. If she write a bad song about Travis, I'm coming for her. That's a threat. That's not a threat. It's a promise, Taylor.

KING: Taylor is very afraid, I'm sure. They're going to make their television debut in the studio with us. We'll be right back.






KING: That is Beyonce's, you know it, "Run the World." And the answer to that question is well, her and Taylor Swift. Thank you very much. Listen to this, together, Taylor Swift and Beyonce won 44 Grammy Awards, released 19 number one hits, headlined 15 concert tours, and sold hundreds of millions of records. Already two of the most iconic artists of all time. Drop the microphone, please. So earlier this year, "Gannett," the largest newspaper publisher in this country, hired the first ever Taylor Swift and Beyonce beat reporters. Is that a dream job? Some people say, yeah, Bryan West knows Taylor Swift all too well. See what I did there?


KING: You got that? And when it comes to reporting on Beyonce, Cache McClay is irreplaceable. See what I did there?


KING: You got that, Charles? You know those are two songs, right? Okay.

MCCLAY: Two good songs.

KING: We just want to keep him current, don't we? We just want to keep him current. Okay, so you guys beat out hundreds of people for this job. Tell me, you start us off, Bryan. WEST: This is just something I couldn't even imagine in my wildest

dreams, knowing that we could actually be reporters covering the beat.

KING: So you read an ad and said, I want that job and you went for it?

WEST: I was at CrossFit, so I love CrossFit, when friends texted me saying, your dream job just became available. So I had left news to focus on mental health and sobriety. And I said, the only thing that would bring me back is if I could report on Taylor every day. And it brought me back.

KING: And that's what you're doing every day.

WEST: That's what I'm doing.

BARKLEY: So do you travel to every concert?

WEST: I would love that. Actually, if we could just put in a word to do that. Right now though, I am just covering her, just like any fan. I've been watching the live streams, honestly, from one of my friend's closets until my place was ready in Nashville. And so just following the news and having sources, what I love about this space is I now have fans and friends that are in Argentina and Brazil who are kind of reporting from the concert and letting me know what's happening.

KING: How did you get the job, Cache?

MCCLAY: Yeah, well, I first saw it online and immediately I started like praying, because I was like- Praying? Praying, because I was just like, it just felt so like meant for me and I was so excited. And so once I got through the first round of interviews, I got a call back and I was just so emotional.

KING: What kind of questions do they ask you in the interview? I'm curious.

MCCLAY: So yeah, we went through so many rounds. I mean, they asked us our relationship with Beyonce, our background as journalists. We had to do lots of panels, video submissions, so writing tests, a video test. So we had a, you know, our fair share of rounds.


BARKLEY: How many times have you seen Beyonce?

MCCLAY: I actually only saw a Renaissance on her birthday in Los Angeles.

KING: That was your first concert?


KING: Really?

BARKLEY: That's the one you went to?

KING: Yeah, yeah, in July.

MCCLAY: Oh, in July, yeah.

KING: So the big news in Beyonce land right now is Tina Knowles. Talk about a clap back of all clap backs because people were criticizing her, came for her after looking at her at the premiere of the Renaissance film, saying that she was trying to look white, which is just so outrageous. I call it fashion. But Tina Knowles really took on the haters. What did you think about that?

MCCLAY: I mean, I think she said it the best. I think to reach that level of stardom and success, I think it's very unfortunate that racism and sexism still exists. And I was, like any mother, I think Tina Knowles, clapping back, she was just protecting her daughter. And I thought the claims were ridiculous. I thought Beyonce was done.

KING: Tina said every time she does something that she works her ass off for, and is a statement of her work, ethic, talent, and resilience, here you sad little haters come out of the word work, jealousy and racism, sexism, double standards, and you perpetuate those things. And she goes on and on, calls them clowns, calls them bozos.

And I really appreciated that she took the stand. And she said, Beyonce will be pissed at me for doing this, but I'm speaking up.

MCCLAY: And I'm so happy she did. I couldn't agree more with everything she said.

BARKLEY: Now, I'm just going to warn you. If your girl write a bad song about my boy Travis, it's going to be some furniture moving around here.

KING: People wonder if that's a real deal.

WEST: Yes. It's definitely the real deal.

KING: And Charles, do you think it's a real deal?

BARKLEY: I have very strict rules on mine and my own business when it comes to relationships. I don't have the courage to ask Travis, is it real? I'm hoping it's real, because he's a good guy. I've actually met both of these ladies, and they are so amazingly talented. I hope it's true, because Travis is a great dude.

KING: Yeah, he seems to be.

WEST: What I would say with that is they are the it couple. They're the fairy tale that's playing out. It's a love story, baby. Just say yes. I find it interesting that it's a stark contrast to the last relationship. It was very much for six years, let's keep our private life private. Here you have now Travis and her being very public. She supports him at Kansas City Chiefs games. He's going down to Argentina. She's changing the lyrics to her song --

KING: To include him. Yeah. WEST: Karma is the guy on the chief coming straight home to me. And I

think fans just love seeing something happy. Are they end game? I think it's possible. She sang that song to him while he was there in the crowd.

KING: So what's the line for you between P.R. and reporting? But Charles, I'm curious about dating high profile people because it was reported back in the day that you dated a high-profile singer.

BARKLEY: It's -- It's a --

KING: It's a --

BARKLEY: It's nerve wracking. You never get into peace and quiet. You have to worry about paparazzi all the time. And it just sucks.

KING: And the name was?

BARKLEY: Stop it, girl.

KING: Bryan, Cache, we are here.

BARKLEY: I love you, Gayle. We're gonna fight on our first night.

KING: No, no we're not. But it is a great story. Like I said, we're gonna be, thank you guys and congratulations. We're gonna be taking your calls and answering your questions here on KING CHARLES. And moments away, we've got our very first voicemail from, ooh, we already have a, Charles, we already have a mystery friend of the show.

BARKLEY: We got a friend?

KING: Yeah, we do. We have one. We have one. We'll be right back.




KING: As we've been saying throughout the show, we really do want to hear from you and we've got a special number just for you. I love our number, Charles. Say it again, please.

BARKLEY: 1-855-3434-

KING: And we think we're being --


KING: We think we're being clever because we took the 3434 from your number as an homage to you. I think that's nice. That was Bella's idea, one of the producers. I love that idea.

BARKLEY: Well, she about time she came up with one good idea.

KING: Leave us a message and we might play it for you on the air and answer your question. Just like this. Here's call number one.

SHAQ, CHARLES BARKLEY'S FRIEND (on the phone): Hey, Gayle, it's Shaq here from Atlanta. I have a question. I'm just wondering why it's smart. Sophisticated person like yourself would agree to sit next to a dummy like Chuck all along for an hour every week. Anyway, let me know, Gayle. Love you. Bye.

KING: Love you too, Shaq. I think that's his way of saying congratulations to you, Chuck, and that he has great love for you, and he's wishing you well. Isn't that what you took away from that?

BARKLEY: I love you too, big. That's what that meant.

KING: Yes, I think so, too.

BARKLEY: That was really cool for him to take the time. I mean, it ain't like he's doing anything. We only work one day a week. That was cool, though. I love the big fella. You know, I got a lot of love for him, Ernie, and Kenny. We have a lot of fun at work.

KING: But really, I'm really glad.

BARKLEY: This is my new gig now.

KING: I feel that way too. I'm glad that now we get the opportunity because you should know America, neither one of us was looking for another job. What attracted me to this was you.

BARKLEY: And same thing. I would only do this with you, Gayle.

KING: That's exactly what I said too.

BARKLEY: Listen. Shout out to our crew. This is our first show. We hope people like the show. We're gonna do our best. That's all we can do. We got a great cast around us.

KING: And if all goes according to plan, guess what? KING CHARLES is, well I know we'll be back next Wednesday. The question is, will you be back next Wednesday?

BARKLEY: Well, I'll be here. We're on a special time next week, right?

KING: We have a special time next week because there's a little thing called the debate, but we're gonna be on Wednesday, 9:00 next time, just next time only. After that, it'll be 10:00.


And here's a little note, shameless plug. You can catch me tomorrow morning on "CBS Mornings" at 7 a.m. I'm leaving here and going right to bed. Where you going?

BARKLEY: I'm not going to bed. I'm not going to bed.

KING: Should I stop asking you questions?

BARKLEY: Yes, you should.

KING: Abby Phillip will be right here tomorrow night at 10:00. Abby, we love you too. But don't you go anywhere. "LAURA COATES LIVE," who you met earlier today, starts right now.