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CNN Live At Daybreak

Timothy McVeigh Appeals End; Opposing Eye-for-an-Eye Justice

Aired June 08, 2001 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We begin with the final 72 hours. Timothy McVeigh has told his lawyers to stop all appeals. The word came down just minutes after an appeals court in Denver, well, they refused to hear McVeigh's request for an execution delay.

His lawyers say McVeigh knew there were other options available.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT NIGH, MCVEIGH ATTORNEY: I can tell you that he said clearly he doesn't want to pursue any further legal options. He doesn't want to create any more uncertainty. He wants to make the preparations that are necessary between now and Monday. He's mindful of the impact of this situation upon everyone affected by this. And he's ready for us to stop.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: McVeigh is spending his final days at the federal penitentiary in Terre Haute, Indiana. He could be moved from his cell into the execution building some time today.

CNN's Jeff Flock is outside the prison right now -- Jeff.

JEFF FLOCK, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Colleen.

We are now in the window. At some point -- the Bureau of Prison's protocol doesn't say exactly when he must be moved -- but sometime starting now -- at least an hour ago -- is when the window opened. And then he must make that move from the special confinement unit to the execution facility sometime before we reach 24 hours counting down. So that would be before Sunday morning, 7:00 a.m.

Let's take a look at how Tim McVeigh is right now, some pictures provided to us by the Bureau of Prisons that depict that special confinement unit. It essentially is federal death row. All of the federal prisoners on death row across the U.S. were consolidated here in Terre Haute back in the mid 1990s. Currently, the unit could house as many as 50 people. It now houses about 20. They're each in 8-by- 10 cells that include a bunk, a toilet, a sink, a desk. And each of them in the special confinement unit have also access to a small black and white television set.

So that's what it looks like now for Tim McVeigh. And, again, we'll give you the word when we learn that he has been transported onto the execution facility. Now, onto the question of who will be watching this. We have met quite a bit of the folks that will be watching on closed-circuit television in Oklahoma City. But as to those who will be here in the flesh in Terre Haute watching: some 40- plus people.

Let's run them down so you'll know who that will be -- first of all, victims or victims' family members, about 10 -- exactly 10 of those. They have been chosen by lottery. And each of the people that witness this execution will be behind a glass panel. The glass panel for the victims or victims' family members will be tinted for their privacy. They will be able to see the execution. But Mr. McVeigh or those in the chamber itself will not be able to see them.

The next -- those people selected by Tim McVeigh: five of those -- and they include a couple of members of his defense team, as well as the novelist Gore Vidal. Ten members of the media also will be on hand to witness it, including reporters from the "Terre Haute Tribune- Star," "The Daily Oklahoman" and the AP, and then others to be chosen amongst themselves on Monday morning, and then lastly an unspecified number of government witnesses -- so quite a crowd here in Terre Haute. We will be among them, of course, on the outside.

That's the latest from here, Colleen -- back to you.

MCEDWARDS: Jeff, is it clear what Timothy McVeigh's state is? Has anybody had any access to him? Or will the public in any way hear from him before Monday morning?

(CROSSTALK)

FLOCK: Yes, in some ways, I mean the Bureau of Prisons has really blocked any opportunities for any on-camera interviews. So any way to see him up close really firsthand has sort of been blocked. We know what we know from his attorneys -- of course, talked to Nathan Chambers yesterday. He said that Mr. McVeigh is well.

Also, his attorneys have alluded to Mr. McVeigh needing some time to prepare himself for death, and that being one of the reasons that he decided to terminate his appeals, because, you know, they could've run right up until the time of execution. So he really wanted to be prepared. So that's as much as we know about his state at this time -- Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: All right, Jeff Flock, thanks very much.

Well, is it really the end of the line for the Oklahoma City bomber? CNN's legal analyst, Roger Cossack, is in Washington. And we want to bring him now with that part of the story.

Roger, what could change at this point, if anything?

ROGER COSSACK, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, I suppose that McVeigh could decide that he wishes to go ahead with an appeal to the United States Supreme Court. Just because he said he didn't want to doesn't mean that he still can't do it. I think you can do that right up until the very end. Whether or not he will choose to do that, who knows?

I would say that it's pretty much over and the only thing left for him is Monday.

MCEDWARDS: Is it clear yet what, if anything, was in these pages and pages of documents that weren't turned over? I mean, can we assume the defense team went through them all and didn't find anything? Or is it possible they just didn't have time to go through them all?

COSSACK: Well that's what they claimed. You know, they claimed that there were 4,000 pages and that they just didn't have time to really completely go through them and follow up potential leads that came from those pages.

And what they were really asking for at the end was not so much for the judge to make a decision as to whether or not they had put their case forward, but whether -- but they were simply asking for more time in order to put their case forward.

What Judge Matsch decided was that they could have, you know, whether he gave them 30 days or 300 days, there was really nothing that was going to change. You see, the defense admitted that they were not -- they were never going to come to court and say that their client didn't do it. What they were going to come to court, hopefully, from their point of view, was to say: Judge, we have found out that perhaps there's other information -- mitigating information -- that would cause a juror to rethink whether or not he should get the death penalty.

What Judge Matsch decided was: You know, you can look forever, but the facts are undisputed that your client built that bomb, put it in that truck, drove it to the Murrah Building and blew it up. And that is always going to be the same. And what he did was sort of -- what he did was cut to the chase and say: You know, you don't need any more time. Things are never to change.

MCEDWARDS: So faced with a situation like that in this type of case, what does it come down to? I mean, how much is it the lawyer's advice; how much is it the client's wishes?

COSSACK: Well, the client's wishes are always preeminent. I mean, what the client says is what is done. Now, oftentimes, it's not unusual for clients and lawyers to disagree on what tactics are.

But I would think that in a situation like this, you know, it's not for the lawyer to say to the -- to the client or to the defendant or McVeigh: Listen, you should live longer so I can go ahead and press your appeal.

If McVeigh says, "This is as far as I want to go," the bottom line is it's his life and he will control what goes on, certainly as to the time he dies. I mean, he knows he's scheduled to die Monday. He also knows, by the way, that there's very, very slim chance that the United States Supreme Court was going to do anything to stop that day. Once Judge Matsch made his decision, that was pretty much the end of his appeals, although he could have gone one step further. So, you know, if he decides that's where he wants to end it, then that's the end of it. The lawyers can't go any further.

MCEDWARDS: Understood. CNN's legal analyst Roger Cossack, thanks very much -- Carol.

COSSACK: Sure.

LIN: Well, Colleen, survivors and relatives will be allowed to watch as Timothy McVeigh is put to death. Most support the execution, but survivors and relatives of some other murder victims do not agree with the death penalty.

They gathered in Boston. And CNN's Bill Delaney talked with them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BILL DELANEY, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Under the shared shadow of violence and its endless aftermath, members of Murder Victims Families for Reconciliation, MVFR, opponents of the death penalty.

NAOMI WHITE, MOTHER OF MURDER VICTIM: Five years ago, my son was murdered in an act of random violence. I oppose the death penalty because I feel that it's part of the violence in this society that helped to cause an acceptance of violence that helped to kill my son.

RENNY CUSHING, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, MVFR: On June 1, 1988, my father was shotgunned to death at his front door in front of my mother. I oppose the death penalty because I don't want to become a killer, because not only would they take my father, but they would also take my values.

JENNIFER BISHOP, NATIONAL CHAIRWOMAN, MVFR: On April 7 of 1990 in Winnetka, Illinois, my sister Nancy Bishop Langert and her husband and their unborn child were brutally murdered by a 16-year-old. The death penalty as a memorial to her life doesn't make any sense. Her life was about love.

DELANEY: A gathering on the surface like any other -- unlike any other.

(on camera): In existence since the 1970s, MVFR has never convened as a large group before. Some 400 people gathered here at Boston College, a long-planned meeting organizers say, only coincidentally with Timothy McVeigh's possible execution so much in the air.

(voice-over): With a message not criticizing death penalty supporters, but affirming that, for them, death for death made healing impossible.

AUDREY SAMM, DAUGHTER OF MURDER VICTIM: My mother was a victim of a homicide. And we all have this grief and the pain and the suffering. And I can't tell anyone else how to deal with those emotions and those feelings. We haven't come to a place in our society yet where everyone is ready to relinquish this control of taking another human's life. And I'd like to believe that someday, collectively, as a society, that we will come to that point.

KRISTI SMITH, DAUGHTER OF MURDER VICTIM: In 1978, my father was murdered. I was able to go into the prison and meet with one of my dad's offenders. You could say I was able to forgive him. It just did something to my spirit. But after that happened, I could breathe so well. I mean, it's just like -- it's no burdens, beautiful, the way to live life.

DELANEY: Bill Delaney, CNN, Boston.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

LIN: You can follow the McVeigh developments online. Just go to our Web site: CNN.com/McVeigh. That's AOL keyword CNN.

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