Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Scientist, Parents of Twins Implanted as Embryos Discuss Stem Cell Research

Aired July 17, 2001 - 08:15   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: You've probably heard about this controversy: Stem cells are being used by researchers to try to cure some of the worst diseases that we know in this world. But they're controversial; they're the purest kind of cells that scientists can get, because they can mold themselves into just about anything. Controversial, though, because those cells come from embryos, and one of the controversies right now, one of the big questions, is whether or not federal funds should be used to fund this kind of research. A House subcommittee hearing is going to happen today in Washington. There's going to be some powerful testimony heard from both sides in this debate.

We're going to give you a little bit of a preview of it right now.

First we want to talk to Dr. Jeffrey Rothstein. He's with Johns Hopkins University. He uses stem cell research in some of his work.

Dr. Rothstein, thanks for being here.

DR. JEFFREY ROTHSTEIN, JOHNS HOPKINS UNIVERSITY: Thank you, Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: Explain, first of all, how you use stem cells in your particular field.

ROTHSTEIN: Well, I'm a neurologist, and I focus on a neurological disease known as amyotrophic lateral sclerosis, or Lou Gehrig's disease, as it's commonly called. It's a particularly devastating neurologic disease. It's a uniformly fatal disease, and it affects young and old alike. In fact, the typical patient that I might see is the age of our president, in the mid 50's, but we certainly see patients who are quite young; in fact, yesterday, in my clinic, I saw several patients who were in their late 20s and early 30s, patients who have young children.

MCEDWARDS: And Dr. Rothstein, is it your feeling that stem cells will eventually cure this disease?

ROTHSTEIN: It's going to be a long road between the basic science that we're doing now and ultimately curing a disease like ALS. But a disease like ALS and other neurodegenerative diseases are unique in that cells slowly die in these diseases, and when you lose cells in your brain, you lose them for good. There is no replacing them. And in ALS, the loss of those cells lead to motor weakness, and eventually, death by suffocation. There is no drug today that we can envision that would ever save a patient's life; only stem cells offer the possibility of saving our ALS patients' lives.

MCEDWARDS: Dr. Rothstein, I just want to interrupt for a second, because we can actually hear the sound of babies crying off camera.

ROTHSTEIN: Yes.

MCEDWARDS: It's a little bit distracting, but I just want to explain to our viewers, so they can focus on what you are saying. They are going to be part of our next segment, so just try to ignore it for now. Babies do get fussy, but it will all become clear in just a moment.

This kind of research, Dr. Rothstein, goes on now with private funding. The question for politicians and the public is whether or not tax dollars should be used. Why do you need tax dollar funding for this research, or would it go on regardless?

ROTHSTEIN: Well, in fact, the last two years we've done the research, we have required private funding from groups like Project ALS or The Center for ALS Research. But we're only a small component of the research. In fact, we're only applied science; we're using these cells. We have a lot more to learn before we're going to move the cells from our lab truly to curing patients, and we need a large effort to do that, and it won't happen with private funding alone. Private funding will help jump-start this research, but only federal dollars -- we have a long history in the United States of performing the best research in the world, and it's been dependent upon federal funding.

MCEDWARDS: And what would you say to people who say, though, what you are doing is you're taking a potential human life and turning it into a cluster of cells on the brain of a Parkinson's patient or someone with ALS?

ROTHSTEIN: I would say that I'm doing my job as a neurologist and a physician to help save lives.

MCEDWARDS: What happens to most of these embryos?

ROTHSTEIN: As you've heard, and our audience has heard, from many other testimonies of stem cell scientists, there are a large number of these cells that are not used and will be discarded. They're certainly available for those people who would like to use them for their original intended uses, but some are discarded.

The audience should understand that there's a wide range of stem cells. We're talking, really, today about embryonic stem cells. There are stem cells that come from adult tissues, from bone marrow, from muscle. But so far, we as scientists have seen our experiments showing us that the embryonic stem cells seem to offer the best possibilities for the future.

MCEDWARDS: Dr. Jeffrey Rothstein, thank you very much for your views on this matter -- appreciate it. ...

ROTHSTEIN: Thank you, Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: We're going to move along to the other side now, and you're also going to get a picture of those babies that you could hear in the background.

We want to talk to John and Lucinda Borden. They are parents of twins who were adopted embryos. They're going to be appearing before this House subcommittee hearing today.

Thanks both for being here. I see the kids are a little fussy.

But you're there with your two babies. It's a powerful message; it's a powerful image. What is it that you want members of this subcommittee to take from it, Lucinda?

LUCINDA BORDEN, MOTHER OF EMBRYO TWINS: Basically we're not against stem cell research; we're against using embryos for stem cell research. There are other sources that can be used, and we are parents who have adopted embryos frozen. And we want genetic families to know that this option is out there for them because they've been told that they can be discarded or donated to research where they're also destroyed, but they're not told that there's an option of adoption, which is a respect for the life that embryos really are.

MCEDWARDS: Lucinda Borden, you just said that stem cells can be found in other places. We just heard a doctor say that these embryos are the best source for these cells.

L. BORDEN: We've done research. There's been a team that's done research that has stated that there are other sources. In fact, I was reading today that the embryo is being rejected, and the medication that has to be used for the person who the embryo stem cell is put into -- has to take this medication that's extremely dangerous to them.

And we're saying that there's no real proof that it'll work -- and with other stem cells, it will work.

MCEDWARDS: What's your fear about using public funds, using tax payer money, for this kind of research?

L. BORDEN: It says that we are OKing this process of destroying and manipulating human life, and I wonder where that line will be drawn. If we push this line that much farther, how much farther are we going to push it in the future? When are we going to start saying this life is more important than that life? We need to draw this line here and stop and say these embryos cannot be used for research; otherwise, that will continue on, and it's just a fear of mine that that line will be pushed farther and farther.

MCEDWARDS: Lucinda, a lot of people probably don't know that it's possible actually to adopt embryos. Tell us a little bit about the process you went through: how you did it, how much it cost, that kind of thing. L. BORDEN: Basically, we went through, and we went back to the agency that I was adopted from, and we adopted -- they are the ones who told us about embryo adoption.

I was very excited because of the fact that I was told I could never have children. So to be able to carry these twins to term was an incredible process for me.

The cost was about $4,500, which was considerably less, but then there were the medical expenses of actually doing the implantation.

MCEDWARDS: All right, Lucinda Borden, John Borden, thank you both very much for your time this morning -- appreciate it.

L. BORDEN: Thank you.

J. BORDEN: My pleasure, thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com