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CNN Live At Daybreak

Exploring Pope John Paul II's Views on Stem Cell Research

Aired July 23, 2001 - 07:38   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: Pope John Paul II and U.S. President George Bush had a meeting this morning. After the meeting, the pope issued a statement on embryonic stem cell research. Pretty strong stuff.

Let's have a bit of a listen here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE JOHN PAUL II: In defending the right to life, in law and through a vibrant culture of life, America can show the world the path to a truly humane future, in which man remains the master, not the product, of his technology.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MCEDWARDS: And right now for more on this, we are joined by Jude Dougherty who is Dean Emeritus of the School of Philosophy at Catholic University.

Mr. Dougherty, thanks so much for being here.

You heard the pope's statement...

JUDE DOUGHERTY, DEAN EMERITUS, CATHOLIC UNIVERSITY: Morning.

MCEDWARDS: ... calling this essentially a violation of life. The Catholic Church's position on stem cell research is pretty clear.

DOUGHERTY: Indeed it is. I'm sure Bush did not have to go to the Vatican to find that out. You could listen to moralists in Washington, South Bend, Sao Paulo, or for that matter, Taipei or Buenos Aires.

But I'm sure Bush is aware of the moral dimension of it all that what we're dealing with is the production of human beings in order to be dismembered for their parts to be used for some -- quote -- "noble cause" but as yet identified or unfulfilled. The promise may be better than the actual fact. But quite apart from that, the end does not justify the means.

The position of the church, and it should be clear that the church doesn't invent morality. As a matter of fact, its not a religious issue at all. It's more of a philosophical issue. It's philosophy. We're reflecting on the data presented by the science. Science is aware that from the instance of conception, we're dealing with a human being and that human being, if properly nurtured, could live to be 80 or 90 years old. Now the morality is can you bring to be a human beings in order to sacrifice them for some purpose?

MCEDWARDS: Help us understand, you know, you know the pope well, I understand. Help us understand more about his thinking because some people do argue that it's a scientific issue. I mean here you have embryos, clusters of cells that, in some cases, are discarded anyway and the proponents of this research say it really could save lives. And I'm wondering if you can help us get inside the mind of the pope a little bit. Here's a man who knows about Parkinson's, who has experiences with the kinds of diseases and problems that researchers believe this type of research may actually -- may actually fix. So I'm wondering if you think he -- if there's any sort of personal dilemma for him at all in this or no?

DOUGHERTY: By no means. Of course before he became pope, he was renowned as a professional philosopher. As a matter of fact, he was my guest in just that capacity. His credentials are remarkable. He has completed documentations in both moral philosophy and in theology. He was a student of the eminent Jewish moralist and from him learned a great deal about ethical method.

But the larger issue is that we're dealing with a received tradition that the Holy Father himself has mastered. When he became pope, there was no talk of stem cell research. But the issue is whether we recognize the human character of the fertilized ovum, whether we're dealing with a human being from the outset or not? If we're not dealing with a human being, there's no problem.

As far as stem cells are concerned, they can be garnered from adults but it's much -- the technology, at the moment, is that it's much easier to garner these stem cells from living embryos.

MCEDWARDS: Right, and sometimes...

(CROSSTALK)

DOUGHERTY: But a living embryo is a human being. So you're killing, you know, one human being in order to advance some objective.

MCEDWARDS: And some scientists argue, though, that the -- that the stem cells are the better form -- the purer form. And I don't want to get into all the details of the debate with you because I do want to hear some more of your thoughts on the meeting that the pope had with President Bush. None of us was there. Obviously we don't know what was said, but what kind of tone do you think he would have struck? I mean here's an American president who's a supporter of capital punishment. I mean there are some issues here clearly that these two would fundamentally disagree on.

DOUGHERTY: Well, I don't think the Holy Father would be lecturing Bush as to what he ought to do domestically. He can enunciate clear principle that governs action in these matters whether it's capital punishment, whether it's immigration policy, rich nation, poor nation. On a range of issues there is a clear moral position which most Catholic moralists subscribe to and the Holy Father would take his lead from that teaching. It's a teaching which he had to master himself and, of course, he mastered it very well.

MCEDWARDS: All right.

DOUGHERTY: And when he teaches, it's more authoritative than when I teach for certain.

MCEDWARDS: That's for sure. All right. Jude Dougherty, thank you so much for your insights on this and your time this morning. I do appreciate it.

DOUGHERTY: You're welcome.

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