Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Is Pop Culture Becoming Too Toxic?

Aired July 25, 2001 - 08:29   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: And it's time now to put our focus for a moment on pop culture and ask the question: Is it becoming too toxic? We're asking this question today in part because of a Senate committee hearing that's coming up later this morning. Lawmakers are looking at entertainment ratings: do they actually work, do they keep kids from seeing and hearing violence and sex.

Now, the short answer to that is sort. A new study by the Kaiser Family Foundation says parents use the ratings to make decisions about what their children watch. But what the study didn't look at is what society considers acceptable violence and sexual images. Do we allow too many violent and sexually explicit images into our culture, and do they affect you're children?

We're going to examine that question in-depth this morning. We have two special guests for you. Elliot Minceberg is with the People for the American Way, and he does not like the idea of regulating the arts or imposing standards on them. On the other side, Brent Bozell, founder of the Parents Television Council. He thinks Hollywood has gone too far, and should be more responsible with the type of violence and sexual images that are seen on TV and on the big screen as well.

Good morning, gentlemen.

BRENT BOZELL, PARENTS TELEVISION COUNCIL: Good morning.

MCEDWARDS: We're will start with the small screen. We're going to start television and some disturbing pictures. One of the more violent programs that can be seen is on pay television, namely our sister network HBO. We will show it to you here. It's the hugely popular "Sopranos." It recently caught a lot of flack for showing a scene where the character Ralph is beating his pregnant stripper girlfriend to death. The scene is actually so graphic, we've actually edited it. We're not showing you all of it here. That's why you're only seeing a small portion of it.

So gentlemen, let's start by talking about that. Elliot, you believe the government has no role to play, but what if a kid sitting before a television set stumbles on to a scene like that?

ELLIOT MINCEBERG, PEOPLE FOR THE AMERICAN WAY: It seems to me the most important thing is who does make the decisions? Is it government or is it parents and families? And in a situation like that, the right thing to do if a kid is watching that program that late at night anyway, is for the parent to watch with them, to talk about that scene, to talk about what's appropriate, what not is appropriate. I can find equally violent scenes in a film like "Schindler's List," which is extremely important, I think, for young people to see, if they're instructed in the right way and work with their parents and families in dealing with the situation.

MCEDWARDS: Brent, is it parents' responsibility to simply be there to turn off or to guide their kids?

BOZELL: Well, I think to a certain degree, yes, and I think to a certain degree, parents have not, as a whole, shown that much responsibility. When 96 percent of the parents say there's too much sex and violence, but 48 percent of them allow their children to have TVs in their bedrooms, you have a disconnect.

Having said that, I find it offensive as a parent that I have to protect my children from television. You know, there's a thing called the public airwaves. I own those airwaves. Hollywood is being invited into my living room. Hollywood has always understood this. Hollywood always respected the fact that when it went into the family room, there were children watching. But those rules have gone out the window completely. That's offensive.

MCEDWARDS: Elliot, you know how difficult it is. Parents can't be there all the time. Kids turn on the TV by themselves. It's there in their homes, in their bedrooms. Has Brent got a point there?

MINCEBERG: Well, there's no question that television is around a lot these days. But ultimately, the question is what do parents do and how do they do it. There are methods that exist if parents want to, technologically, to control what is shown on their television or not.

MCEDWARDS: The V-chips, that sort of thing.

MINCEBERG: Right, there's also, of course, the old on/off switch that always exists that can and should be used a lot more frequently than it is. And the important thing is something that may not be appropriate for my 12-year-old to see may be perfectly appropriate for my 20-year-old to see. So who is it that makes the decision? Is it the government, by saying we're not going to allow this kind of program at all or, again, is it parents and families and that's where we think the decision should be.

MCEDWARDS: All right, Brent, who should make the decision, in view?

BOZELL: What's missing out of that part of the equation is the industry itself and the sponsors who underwrite this garbage. You know, there is a middle ground in all of this where Hollywood could do what it once did, which was at the early hours of evening viewing when children are watching, don't put on things like ultraviolent wrestling. Put that on at 10:00 or 11:00 at night.

People talk about "The Sopranos." That's pay-per-view. That really doesn't bother me. That's pay-per-view television. I'm upset by what's coming over the public airwaves on broadcast television.

MCEDWARDS: OK, gentlemen, I want to move us on to big screen now, if we could. Last December, there was sort of a goofy comedy called "Dude, Where's My Car?" It hit the theaters, and it's just now out on video. The movie is rated PG-13. But in it, you've got the main characters talking a lot about oral sex. There's one non- explicit where a character receives oral sex. There's also a scene in a bar, where a stripper turns out to be a transsexual.

All this leads us to the question, is PG-13 really fair and Elliot, maybe we'll start with you. I mean, what good are these ratings if parents can't use them as a predictor for the content?

MINCEBERG: As a matter of fact, most studies show that parents do use ratings and use them pretty well. You don't just look at a simple rating itself, you read the movie reviews, you read other kinds of information, and most parents, the surveys show, can use that information to help guide what their kids do and see and what they themselves do.

MCEDWARDS: But Elliot, oral sex in a PG-13 movie? Would you let your kid watch that, your 13-year-old?

MINCEBERG: I probably would not, but that -- but again, the issue is who decides and how they decide? What is the alternative? Do we start having government mandates on what is rated in what way? That would be a terrible idea to get the government in the middle of that.

MCEDWARDS: Brent?

BOZELL: You know, hint, hint. Here's earth-shatter news here. PG-13 at the movies means anything you want it to mean, and we all know that. TV-PG on television means anything you want it to mean, and we all know that as well. What I find so interesting is when people are defending these rating and then asked, would you allow your children to watch this? The answer is always no.

MCEDWARDS: But Brent, you know, I guess this is an artistic question. What standard would be applied to decide what's acceptable, what's offensive, what isn't? I mean, we're really talking about -- some people would say we're really talking about what is art. I mean, how would you set the standard?

BOZELL: Well, first of all, where the movies are concerned, you've got an independent body rating them; where television is concerned, you've got the fox guarding the hen house. It's the producers producing the offensive material who are giving their own rating. And by the way, one of the reasons the ratings have backfired on television, as we predicted it would, is because now you have carte blanche to put things like "South Park" with the word s-h-i-t 162 times on television, which you couldn't do before the ratings.

MCEDWARDS: OK, we're going to move on to music here, now. We've got another example for you, if you'll stay with us here. What you're going to hear here and see is a clip from a popular rap artist, Lil' Kim. This is the video from "No Matter What They Say," which is from her 2000 album Notorious K-I-M." But the song we want to talk about is called "How Many Licks." It's from the same album.

We've got to tell you, the original for this segment was to pull a phrase or two from that show, show the words on the screen and talk about them. But you know, we looked at it and our producers, we just couldn't find enough clean lines to actually string together a paragraph. This song is a series of obscenities that are used to describe sex. She makes it even more controversial by talking about the races of her sexual partners. She uses the n word to describe blacks. It is -- you know, when you read it, by any standard, it's pretty tough stuff.

Elliot, you know, at what point can you stop defending certain things as art and freedom of expression? Is there a threshold then, in your mind you can't go over?

MINCEBERG: Well, there's no question the Supreme Court has said that some things can be considered to be obscene or harmful to minors under legal standards. Indeed, the FCC uses broader standards in keeping material off of radio if it wants to. The question, again, is how to apply those standards and how to make sure that you don't reduce adults to sometimes less than what's fit for children when it comes to reviewing content of music and other entertainment.

MCEDWARDS: How would you do that? How would you set the level to make sure, as you say, adults can see what they want to see?

MINCEBERG: Well, again, what the FCC has done has historically is something like what Brent was referring to before, in terms of trying to push certain kinds of materials to later viewing hours, et cetera. But...

MCEDWARDS: Do I smell an agreement, here, Brent? I mean, are we reaching sort of a consensus here that there's some control.

BOZELL: Not when it comes to music. Let's cut to the chase here. You just went on and on and on about how all your producers got together on a show presumably being watched only by adults right now, and you didn't have the stomach to put this on the air? And what is this, this is a video being aimed at children.

Let's talk about this for a second. Let's stop talking about legalities and stop talking about what this rule and what this adult might think. Let's understand we're talking about product being aimed directly at impressionable children.

MCEDWARDS: Well, I guess that's the question of responsibility; isn't it? I mean, Elliot, we feel responsible here at CNN to not offend our viewers in the morning. People do feel responsible to the public, in a way.

MINCEBERG: I think that's right. The fact is there's no reason at all why parents, families, the public can't make their views known, can't say yes, we approve of what CNN is doing, we don't approve of what another station is doing and make sure they turn off that station and make that decision in droves. That's what would really affect the industry, is people making a decision over what they do and don't want to see, not government regulations.

(CROSSTALK)

BOZELL: Or have that record company fire that punk.

MCEDWARDS: All right, gentlemen, we're going to leave it there. Thank you both for your thoughts this morning. It's been really interesting.

BOZELL: You're very welcome.

MINCEBERG: Thank you.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com