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CNN Live At Daybreak

Should Children Ever be Prosecuted as Adults?

Aired July 26, 2001 - 07:31   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: The widow of a Florida teacher killed by teenager Nathaniel Brazill will ask a judge today to put the boy behind bars for life. Brazill was convicted in May of killing his middle school teacher. At today's sentencing hearing, Brazill faces a minimum penalty of 25 years in prison and a maximum term of life in prison.

Want to spend a little bit more time on this issue right now, this is a moral question, a legal one too, but fundamentally a moral question and a difficult one.

We're joined by James Lewis. He is the attorney for Lionel Tate, the 13-year-old convicted of killing a 6-year-old girl. You may remember that case because part of the defense was that the boy was mimicking wrestling moves at the time.

And on the other side, we've got Joe Whitley who is a former federal prosecutor.

Gentlemen, thank you both for being here.

I'd like to start with James Lewis,...

JAMES LEWIS, ATTORNEY FOR LIONEL TATE: Good morning.

MCEDWARDS: ... if I can, please? James, today in the Brazill case, a widow is going to take the stand, a family of a young boy accused of a terrible crime is going to take the stand, but what should happen? Should this teenager face an adult sentence?

LEWIS: Well, there's no question that he is. He's going to be sentenced somewhere between 25 years and life and he's going to end up in an adult prison, and I think that's very unfortunate. Twelve and 13-year-olds don't belong in adult prison. They don't belong being tried like adults because they don't think like adults. Sixteen and 17-year-olds, I think judges can be involved and decide whether or not someone should receive a juvenile or an adult sanction. But what's going to happen today and the disturbing trend that we see is that very young children, 12-, 13-, 14-year-olds, are looking at a life behind bars without any possibility of redemption or parole.

MCEDWARDS: Joe Whitley.

JOE WHITLEY, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, I think prosecutors, judges should have discretion to determine whether or not people who commit these kind of horrible crimes do face more severe penalties. And I think the legislatures around the country have made that decision. And I believe in this case it's appropriate. I think it's appropriate for this individual to be sentenced relatively severely. We have to send a message to people - young people that there is accountability. And young people today are much more sophisticated than they have ever been in our country's history so there needs to be accountability but discretion at the local level to make a determination about who should be sentenced.

MCEDWARDS: But what happens once they are sentenced - once they are sent into an adult prison environment? And, James, maybe I can get you to pick this up. Your client, Lionel Tate, I understand, ended up being taken to a juvenile prison, correct, when the governor stepped in?

LEWIS: Yes, that's what happened here. It was a very unusual case where the governor basically felt some compassion for Lionel and placed him in a maximum-security juvenile detention center.

MCEDWARDS: And what kind of conditions are he in right now?

LEWIS: Well, it's in - it's, for all practical purposes, it's a maximum-security prison with barbwire. He can't leave, but he's surrounded by other inmates, many of whom were quite a bit older than him but at least younger than 21.

MCEDWARDS: And what do you think the impact on him is?

LEWIS: Well, I think it's a horrible place for him to be. I don't think he belongs to be there. This case is, I think, far different than what happened in the Nathan Brazill case up in West Palm Beach, but obviously, it's not a good environment for a child 12- , 13-, 14-year-old child to be in.

MCEDWARDS: Joe Whitley, should a kid be exposed to what happens in an adult prison environment?

WHITLEY: Well, I think it depends on the age of the child. Obviously some situations require special confinement and I think that's what you're seeing around the country. New confinement, new prisons are being built to handle this type of individual. But in all of our discussion, we always forget about the victims in these situations, the parents who have children who have been killed, the Columbine situations. How do we prevent those from happening, and I think this is the legislatures' way of saying this is one thing we're going to do which is empower prosecutors to incarcerate these offenders for these horrible crimes for longer periods of time,...

MCEDWARDS: Well, James,...

WHITLEY: ... including...

MCEDWARDS: James, what do you say to the - to the victims in these crimes and their families who say the punishment ought to fit the crime? LEWIS: Well, I think making two tragedies out of one doesn't help anything. Statistics show that young people who are put in adult prisons are much more likely to be sexually assaulted. They're not going to come out of there better persons. The juvenile justice system was created for a purpose and that's to try to rehabilitate children. I don't think it's time to give up on that just yet. All these mandatory prison sentences that the legislatures are passing, they're taking away the discretions from the judges, the people who are there that have the knowledge and the experience to determine what's...

MCEDWARDS: Joe,...

LEWIS: ... appropriate.

MCEDWARDS: Joe Whitley, you said something in your previous answer about it depends on the age. It sounds like you believe in some sort of cutoff age here?

WHITLEY: Well, maybe freshman in high school, something like that. There is a certain point where a person should be held accountable and I think...

MCEDWARDS: But how do you determine that?

WHITLEY: Well, I think it has to - I think discretion has to be vested in local officials. And I think that's what legislatures have said, we're going to let judges and prosecutors make that determination.

MCEDWARDS: Doesn't that make a patchwork, though, across a nation?

WHITLEY: Well, I think it - I think every situation should fit the local community standards and I don't think we have a national standard. I think there should be a state-by-state standard. There is a state-by-state standard with the death penalty. Some states don't have it. If the people of a state don't want severe penalties for these types of individuals, they certainly don't have to have them.

MCEDWARDS: James Lewis.

LEWIS: Well, you know here in Florida we give almost absolute discretion to the prosecutors who are politically elected officials. I think judges ought to make the determination of which children go to adult court and which receive juvenile sanctions.

MCEDWARDS: All right. We have to leave it there, gentlemen. James Lewis, Joe Whitley, thank you both very much for your time this morning, appreciate it.

LEWIS: Thank you.

WHITLEY: Thank you. CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: They had their say and now it's your turn. We want to pose the question to you and hear from you: Should children be tried and sentenced as adults? E-mail us at carolandcolleen@cnn.com. We'll be giving those answers in the next hour. It's always interesting to hear what you have to say and it often differs from what we're reporting of the day.

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