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CNN Live At Daybreak

Sex on Campus

Aired July 26, 2001 - 08:42   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
CAROL LIN, CNN ANCHOR: We have some lessons in life today in Washington. In fact, Capitol Hill interns will be learning about campus sex and dating today. The Independent Women's Forum has some surprising results to share with them from a new study.

For instance, there are more virgins on campus than previously thought. Marriage is still a priority for young women and students may not be having intercourse, but sex is still part of the dating scene. It's called hooking up, which can be anything from making out to having lunch.

Today's forum is down the hill from Capitol Hill where the debate rages on about sex and power and younger women, older men. Kate Kennedy is in charge of campus projects for the group that commissioned the sex and dating study and Dr. Drew Pinsky will be talking to the interns today. You know him as Dr. Drew from "Loveline" and MTV where he bills out advice on sex and relationships.

Good morning to both of you.

KATE KENNEDY, INDEPENDENT WOMEN'S FORUM: Good morning.

DR. DREW PINSKY, CO-HOST, "LOVELINE": Good morning.

LIN: Well, Kate, let me begin with you. You know, this whole portrait of Monica Lewinsky and now Chandra Levy, you know, two pictures come out to people. These young, vulnerable women who might be taken advantage of by older men or woman who are perhaps social opportunists and see the opportunity to pave a new path in their life. I mean who are these 20-something women today?

KENNEDY: Well, I think it's -- we run the risk here of taking from the example of Chandra Levy and Monica Lewinsky and suddenly, taking from their examples with older and powerful men here in Washington, D.C. and believing that, that somehow represents what college women across the country are experiencing or feeling when it comes to sex and dating and relationships.

From what this study that the -- excuse me -- Independent Women's Forum has commissioned, what it has told us is that if anything women on college campuses are having a tough time as it is dealing with their own peers when it comes to sex and relationships and dating. And what's most important is that women should not be viewed here as victims or should this victimology message be spread. They are quite intelligent and can make their own decisions. And yet, this social scene that exists, there really are no standards or any social norms that exist and that's the problem here.

LIN: Right, Kate.

KENNEDY: And nobody really knows how to navigate.

LIN: And we don't want to perpetuate any stereotypes, but I want to get a pretty clear picture of how strong, how independent or perhaps how vulnerable a young women in 20s is when she's faced with a situation like she might be faced with in Washington -- older men, lots of social situations, perhaps the first time that they're experiencing any sort of independence.

KENNEDY: Sure.

LIN: I mean these women are not, you know, lambs being led to slaughter now, are they?

KENNEDY: Right. No, they're not. And I do believe it's a case- by-case basis. It all depends on the woman that you're dealing with here and her mental capabilities and her self-esteem and strength and what exactly she is here in the city to attain and to experience. And as you saw in your clip before, a lot of the college students are here to get that experience, to further career.

LIN: Let me get Dr. Drew in here.

PINSKY: Yes, the problem is though that the culture the young women are coming into in their college campuses, at high school and even in the social settings in the workplace, is kind of sick, frankly. There's a hooking up culture where they can get together with a guy and typically do, for one night, just for a physical encounter or there are joined at the hip relationships where they get involved in this very rapidly progressive, very intensive relationships, which are highly monogamous and maybe more than they really intended to getting involved with and there's no in between. There's no sort of way to negotiate courtship or what are appropriate, inappropriate kinds of interaction between a man and woman.

Then you bring them to Washington and they have men who are willing to exploit that. Then we really have a problem here. I think if the culture is going to get better for the young women, it really is incumbent upon the adults, particularly people in authority, like the doctors, the teachers, the business leaders and the government leaders to hold boundaries for these young people so they don't exploit a situation, which is already not healthy for young women.

LIN: Yes, Dr. Drew and that may very well be happening on a wide scale. But you make an interesting point too that you say that women's brains are different. We are chemically different so that when we fall in love, when we have a physical relationship with a man, there is scientific evidence that we're going to respond differently, which might explain why some of these young women actually think that these men are going to leave their wives. PINSKY: Absolutely. We are structurally, biologically, chemically different as men and women. There are similarities obviously, but we are quite different. And the most common question I get from young women is, how could he do that, how could we have this very intense experience and him just sort of walk away and not feel anything when I felt something powerful. And by the way, the culture is telling me that I'm the same as a man, so he must have experienced something precisely what -- the way I did.

LIN: Yes, age-old theory.

Well, Kate, let me ask you this though because I want to bring something out about your study, which I found very interesting. You know, you found a very confusing portrait of what dating is today, that young women are telling you that dating carries multiple meanings. It could mean anything from just hanging out at the library to having sex. So, do you...

PINSKY: It doesn't mean having dinner, though.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: ... these days. All right, go ahead, Kate.

KENNEDY: We can exclude that from the definition. That's right, Dr. Drew, it doesn't mean having dinner. And the problem is on one campus, it means one thing and you travel 10 miles away, on another campus, it means something entirely different. What I can successfully say here is that the common thread throughout all of this is the presence of alcohol and this groupthink mentality in which people go out in packs because it's the comfortable thing to do.

And the little dates that I went on when I was in college, which fortunately wasn't too long ago, it was so nerve wracking. It was almost like taking a final exam. You know, what was the point of doing it? It wasn't fun. Let' just hang out with our friends. It's so much easier and that is the problem in that you don't successfully build any bridges that will, you know, lead to sustaining relationships.

PINSKY: And no one teaches young women that that is, in fact, a route to intimacy. And that if you look at this study, 80-some percent of these women seek marriage as their very important priority. Sixty percent expect to find a husband in college. That's a very different priority. It sort of stands out in distinction against the actual social situation. How is hooking up going to help them form a stabile intimacy and that leads to marriage?

LIN: So do you think it makes young women then -- even smart, independent, ambitious young women who probably should know better, make them more vulnerable when an older men comes up to them on Capitol Hill, the seat of power and says, "Would you like to have dinner with me tonight. I think you're brilliant. I think you're smart. I think you're beautiful."

KENNEDY: Sure, that's a good point, Carol. I mean maybe it does make them more vulnerable because wow, here is this mature gentleman who's actually asking me out on a date. I mean I'm sure that there is this -- the wow factor to it that, you know, entices them to follow and pursue this angle and/or pursue something with this person.

(CROSSTALK)

LIN: So what are going to tell these women today? What are you going to tell these interns today? If you're gong to give them a road map, if what in fact they really want is a traditional relationship and love in their life, what are you going to tell them?

KENNEDY: Well, I think what the Independent Women's Forum really wants to drive home to young women today is that the ramifications of the sexual revolution of the 60s and 70s, yes, women might have wanted to be and act like men but women react different than me, especially when it comes to the issue of sex and dating and relationships. And there's nothing the matter with that.

LIN: Dr. Drew?

PINSKY: That's right. And I'm going to frame the problem for them, help them understand the biology, go into great view and tell about that and ask them to come up with the solutions. I think it's presumptuous for a man to solve these problems for them. I also think it's presumptuous for somebody over the age of 35 to solve it for them. But I'm certainly going to challenge them to have a dialogue with me, whereby; hopefully we'll come up with some meaningful solutions.

LIN: Well, it was someone by -- over the age of 35 who once phrased the phrase "just say no." All right, thank you both very much, Kate and Dr. Drew.

KENNEDY: Thank you.

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