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CNN Live At Daybreak
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Aired August 07, 2001 - 07:11 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: We have been talking about the issue of cloning this morning -- of course, very controversial. It's going to be coming up today, a group of scientists who announced their plans to actually clone humans. They claim that they have 200 people who are ready, willing and anxious to go ahead and do it.
But joining us now for more on this topic is Ian Wilmet. He is of the Roslin Institute in Scotland. He headed the research team that actually created that cloned lamb named Dolly. You may remember that.
Dr. Wilmet, thanks so much for being here.
DR. IAN WILMET, ROSLIN INSTITUTE: Good morning.
MCEDWARDS: Tell us whether you think science is at the stage where people should even be talking about cloning a human being.
WILMET: I think it's important to talk about it, because there are the ethical aspects. Is it something that we want to happen anyway? But right now, the critical issue is what would be the most likely outcome if we use the present techniques to try to produce a person. And the answer -- I am sure from all of the people who have extensive experience of cloning in any of the species -- is that it would include late abortions, the birth of dead children, and perhaps worst of all, the birth of children that survive but which have an abnormality.
And that's why, you know, I welcome the opportunity to take part in this meeting at the National Academy to raise all of these issues and to perhaps stimulate governments, not just here in the United States but around the world, to bring in effective regulation to stop any attempt at human cloning at the present time.
MCEDWARDS: You know, one of the doctors involved in this, Dr. Zavos, on that issue of birth defects and some of the problems that can come up with this. He said that that's an issue between the mother, the parent and the doctor. What do you say to that?
WILMET: Well, I think that's just too simple. In the same way that we regulate the production of drugs and the provision of drugs, we should also regulate the application of new technologies.
As it happens, it's about 100 years since in (UNINTELLIGIBLE) it was wives, I believe, protested about the fact that drug companies were providing them with products which had no effective agent in them. In fact, they probably had what we now call soft drugs in them, so they made people temporarily feel more comfortable. And because of the protests by people, the government started what ultimately became the FDA, an agency which we now accept and respect all around the world.
MCEDWARDS: But you...
WILMET: Perhaps it is time to do something like that with the reproduction techniques.
MCEDWARDS: But you know too on the other hand, Dr. Wilmet, that scientific advances happen in private labs every day. If this is the direction that science is going in, how long can people stand in its way?
WILMET: As long as we like. If society decides that it doesn't like a particular thing, it can stop it. In Europe, in Britain, this is something that is already legislated. That anything that you do with a human embryo, whether it's to treat infertility or for research, is regulated by an agency. And it provides very, very effective supervision of things that are done. And I think this is very important.
MCEDWARDS: You know something that confuses me about the argument of the doctors who want to go ahead and do this. They say it's an issue of allowing people to have children -- allowing infertile couples a choice. They say they have some 200 people, who want to do this. But I am wondering from your perspective how credible this is. I mean, the reason I am confused about it is it seems to me there are all kinds of options other than cloning for infertile couples.
WILMET: I think that is absolutely true that there is no cause of infertility that could only be overcome by cloning. Absolutely right. I think in terms of credibility, I mean, there are some species where cloning is successful. But there are an equal number where experienced teams have tried and failed. So one possibility is that they will fail completely. But perhaps worst of all is that they will produce very late abortions and dead children.
And you may notice, for example, if you look at Professor Zavos' Web site, that he explicitly says that in order to achieve his objective, he would consider second trimester abortions as a way of preventing the birth of abnormal children. This is the technology that he is recommending.
MCEDWARDS: Dr. Wilmet, you have been a pioneer in this field, though, having been the lead researcher in the cloning that produced the sheep, Dolly. And I know that Albert Einstein had a lot to say about the splitting of the atom. His sense that good things could come from it, and bad things could come from it even beforehand.
WILMET: Absolutely.
MCEDWARDS: And I am wondering whether you had that sense in your mind as you were doing the research of any sort of -- did you have a sense and a concern about where this could go?
WILMET: I think -- yes, a small understanding of the subject. But I would have to say that in the past four or five years, I have obviously been exposed to a greater variety of different ideas and different attitudes. And so I understand it much more.
And you are absolutely right. One of the potential side effects of a premature attempt to use this technology could be a prohibition of any research with human embryos. And right now, the government here is considering using cells from embryos to treat degenerative diseases, like Parkinson's disease, diabetes, heart attack, liver damage from hepatitis.
There isn't an effective treatment for any of these conditions, not a fully effective treatment. And it will be a great shame if concern about potential misuses of the technology denies researchers the opportunity to try to develop treatments for these very unpleasant diseases.
MCEDWARDS: All right. Dr. Ian Wilmet, we'll have to leave it there. Thanks so much for your time this morning -- appreciate it.
WILMET: Thank you.
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