Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Live At Daybreak

Political Fallout for Moral and Medicinal Clash

Aired August 10, 2001 - 07:01   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
COLLEEN MCEDWARDS, CNN ANCHOR: We are going to start with more on the big story of the day -- President Bush's decision on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.

Well, when medicine and morality clash, the fallout is often political, and that is what we have this morning following President Bush's decision on federal funding for embryonic stem cell research.

The president is allowing some research on this highly-charged issue. It is a compromise.

Near the presidential ranch in Crawford, Texas, our Kelly Wallace has the political side of this decision. And here at CNN Center, our medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta has the scientific side.

But let's start in Texas and Kelly -- Kelly.

KELLY WALLACE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Colleen.

Well, already the public relation campaign is under way to sell the president's decision. Last night, senior Bush advisors were on the phone with lawmakers and interest groups. Aides are saying that this is -- the president's decision is not a compromise but a solution -- one which Mr. Bush said he arrived at with great care.

In the end, he told the American people from his Texas ranch last night that he would only allow federal tax dollars to back research on stem cells that have already been extracted from human embryos, making it clear that he would not support federal funding using human embryos that are left over at fertility clinics, and that would otherwise be discarded.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE W. BUSH, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I have concluded that we should allow federal funds to be used for research on these existing stem cell lines, where the life and death decision has already been made.

Leading scientists tell me research on these 60 lines has great promise that can lead to breakthrough therapies and cures. This allows us to explore the promise and potential of stem cell research without cross a fundamental moral line by providing taxpayer funding that would sanction or encourage further destruction of human embryos that have at least the potential for life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALLACE: And what the president is backing is research on what the White House says are the more than 60 embryonic stem cell lines that currently exist.

Now, you might ask exactly what is an embryonic stem cell line. Well, think of stem cells as coming from the inner cell mass of an embryo that is maybe between five to seven days old. Then these stem cells are basically nurtured -- they can be nurtured to the point where they can replicate or divide virtually forever, creating what is called a stem cell line.

Now, Mr. Bush also said that he supports aggressive federal funding of stem cell research using animal and adult tissue. Aides saying the president's decision last night definitely takes into account the promise of science, as well as the questions of ethics and morality. They also say it is virtually definitely in sync with comments he made during the campaign, and just a couple of months ago, when he said he was opposed to federal funding of research that would involve the destruction of living human embryos.

As for reaction, opponents of this research -- some opponents of this research who say this research would amount to a destruction of human life. Some are happy with it. Others, including the Catholic bishop, say it is unacceptable.

On the other side, supporters of this research, who say it would lead to revolutionary new breakthroughs in its fight against various diseases, say it's a good step. Others say it's just a limited step, though, and more must be done -- Colleen.

MCEDWARDS: Kelly Wallace, thanks very much -- Vince.

VINCE CELLINI, CNN ANCHOR: The decision is the talk of Capitol Hill this morning.

CNN congressional correspondent Jonathan Karl has reaction from the most outspoken members of Congress.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JONATHAN KARL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): The president's stem cell compromise got the thumbs up from the conservative Republican who had led the battle for embryonic stem cell research.

SEN. ORRIN HATCH (R), UTAH: I think it's the right decision, because what he has done is he has come down on the side of facilitating life and using these cells, which would have been discarded anyway, for purposes that might alleviate the pain and suffering of upwards of 125 million people in this country, who have one or more of these maladies that might be helped by embryonic stem cell research.

KARL: But by allowing even limited funding, Bush disappointed some of the key anti-abortion Republicans, who urged him to take a strong stand against the research.

SEN. SAM BROWNBACK (R), KANSAS: What is the young human? And he says it is a life (ph). If it's a life, we should treat it as such, and not as some sort of medical commodity to research on. And I am concerned about that line of him using the taxpayer money to go down that area.

KARL: Ten minutes before the president made his announcement, his senior advisor, Karl Rove, placed a call to five of the most outspoken conservative Republicans on the issues -- Senators Brownback and Santorum, and Representatives Chris Smith, Dave Weldon and Joseph Pitts.

According to one of those on the call, all five expressed their disappointment with the decision, because it allows research on what they believe to be destroyed human lives.

Democrats offered an even harsher assessment for a much different reason. They wanted fewer limits on funding.

Compassionate conservatism could have meant life-saving treatments for those suffering from Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease. Senator John Kerry said in a written statement, "Instead it appears to be using words of compassion to mask efforts to keep a campaign promise to conservatives."

(on camera): Senate Democratic leader Tom Daschle said he respects the president's decision. But added the Senate will take action to address the limits he put on funding for stem cell research. That sets the stage for what many Republicans wanted to avoid -- a Senate battle on the issue this fall.

Jonathan Karl, CNN, Capitol Hill.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CELLINI: Gallup did a poll for CNN-USA Today immediately after Mr. Bush's speech. Here is what the snapshot look from 581 adults reveals: Half the respondents approve of the president's decision; of the other half, a quarter disapprove; while the rest say they are unsure.

Of those who watched the speech, 73 percent approve of the president's decision compared to 40 percent of those who didn't watch.

Well, this issue has gotten the attention of many influential people in the entertainment industry -- people who could personally benefit from human embryonic stem cell research.

CNN's Larry King spoke with Mary Tyler Moore and Christopher Reeve about the decision. Moore is diabetic; Reeve paralyzed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LARRY KING: So are you going to join Mary in even with hesitation as to the questionability of these existing cells, you are going to go thumbs up too?

CHRISTOPHER REEVE: Well, actually I what needs to happen is the matter ought to go before Congress, and that legislation should be introduced to adopt the Clinton guidelines that were put in place several years ago to allow broader research on this.

KING: Mary, were you surprised at all by anything he said?

MARY TYLER MOORE: I was pleasantly surprised by the number of people, the variation of the kinds of people with whom he had counsel. I think he has delved into his heart and his religious beliefs. And I think when you do that, you think very carefully. I am pleased. I am very pleased.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CELLINI: And we will hear from people against federal funding of stem cells later in our coverage.

Now, with this decision, just where do we go now with the research?

Our medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins us to talk about that -- good to see you, Dr. Gupta.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CELLINI: What about this decision? And is this good? And what is the reaction from the research community?

GUPTA: Right. Well, I think certainly thousands of scientists, millions of patients hail this as a remarkable step forward for stem cell research. At the same time, Vince, I think a lot of the scientists feel that their hands may be tied. While they do get federal funding for the existing stem cell lines, there are a few concerns.

Among them, if the stem cell lines aren't quite as productive as they think they are, they're not going to have a chance, at least federal funding wise, to go back and make some more.

Two, is that there are some specific NIH guidelines that say these stem cells had to have come from people who gave consent. They had to have come from an over surplus at a fertility clinic. So if they don't fit those guidelines, those stem cells may not be eligible for the federal funding.

And finally, the stem cell lines sometimes can mutate. They can go in directions that the scientists didn't plan and may not actually achieve the goals that the scientists had set out.

So scientists are encouraged, but cautious a little bit as well.

CELLINI: But with that encouragement, how far down the line in the foreseeable future can we actually see some breakthroughs? GUPTA: Well, people are very encouraged by this. You know, when you are talking about diabetes, you already have some really, really impressive research going on. And we're talking about cures here -- cures for diabetes -- five, ten years, you know. It's really hard to predict, you know, how long it will take, especially with some of the concerns I was just talking about.

But, you know, soon, you know, relatively soon -- Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease. You just heard Christopher Reeve talking about paralysis. So all of these things within the next decade is what I have heard.

Of course, we will have to wait and see.

CELLINI: Well, at least we're talking about some hope now. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much.

GUPTA: Thank you.

CELLINI: Colleen -- back to you.

MCEDWARDS: All right. Vince, thanks very much.

Let's check now with the nation's leading health advocate, Tommy Thompson, the Secretary of Health and Human Services.

Secretary Thompson, thanks for being here this morning.

TOMMY THOMPSON, SECRETARY OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Thank you, Colleen. How are you?

MCEDWARDS: I am well, thanks.

I'd like you to clarify something for me right off the bat, because I am hearing slightly different things this morning about the 60 existing stem cell lines.

On one hand, people seem to be suggesting that they can replicate for as long as scientists want them to. On the other hand, scientists are saying, no, this is a limited supply of embryonic stem cells.

Can you explain?

THOMPSON: Well, first off, I don't think anybody really knows, because they have only been in existence for three years.

Jamie Thompson discovered how you were going to be able to create embryonic stem cells three years ago in Madison, Wisconsin. And he -- those stem cell lines that he is the one to create are still replicating. So the evidence seems to indicate that you're going to be able to continue to replicate these embryonic stem cells. For how long, nobody knows for sure.

MCEDWARDS: Well, so what do you think then? Is working with the 60 existing stem cell lines going to be enough for researchers to make any significant gains in the next few years?

THOMPSON: Absolutely, Colleen. We have verified once again, since we started on this, through NIH that there are at least 60 existing stem cell lines from embryos. And we feel that that is enough to really to carry on the research.

The truth is, Colleen, there has never been any comparative research done in any place in the world between the different cell lines -- between placenta, in fat, in adult stem cells, as well as embryos. And now, we're going to be able to have enough research to be able to make that comparison to find out which are the best, which can do the job, and what kind of job? Where do they overlap? Where do they compliment each other? And that's what is so important about what the president allowed.

MCEDWARDS: Well, Secretary...

THOMPSON: This is really a compassionate decision.

MCEDWARDS: ... Secretary Thompson, for those who are concerned about this decision, how will the government monitor where those federal funds are spent? How will it be sure that that money is not being spent on cells from embryos that are just being produced now, or in fact embryos that are being produced for the sole purpose of this kind of research?

THOMPSON: Well, first off, only the existing stem cell lines that are in existence now will be able to get federally funded. We will be setting up a registry at NIH, and all of the existing stem cell lines will be registered on that registry. And then the scientists or researchers that wants to get some federal funding, they would have to pick one of the stem cell lines that are in existence, that are in the registry. And they will be able then to provide to the peer review (INAUDIBLE) will be able to get federal funding to conduct the research.

So it will be really handled by the NIH from the Department of Health of Human Services.

MCEDWARDS: All right. Secretary Tommy Thompson, thanks for your time this morning -- appreciate it.

THOMPSON: Thank you.

MCEDWARDS: All right.

Now, of course, you know, Vince, that Bush has also set up a council...

CELLINI: Right.

MCEDWARDS: ... of experts who is going to keep looking into this issue over the next few years. And some people are saying that still leaves the door open for some changes. Obviously, this is an issue that is going to be with us for a long time.

CELLINI: Yes, and a wide variety on that council too.

MCEDWARDS: Yes.

CELLINI: So you'll get many opinions and many views, and I think that's a good thing.

TO ORDER A VIDEO OF THIS TRANSCRIPT, PLEASE CALL 800-CNN-NEWS OR USE OUR SECURE ONLINE ORDER FORM LOCATED AT www.fdch.com.